/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[ ] Good
[ ] VN

Choose one.

Umineko is a chore to read, and doesn't flow very well. This is due to R07's terrible writing.

Serious post here, the ending will make or break Umineko.
It's easy to make a mystery and keep interesting by adding more and more closed rooms and fanservice characters with frills.

But if the plot device that was used to make these mysteries and closed rooms was some shit like MAID WITH DID, then fuck it, R07 is the worst writer ever;

it's shit

>>4180191
this

>>4180191
Pretty much, yeah. Kind of like all the mistery of Higurashi went to shit with the ending. Now, when people mention Higurashi all you can think about is LOL BRAIN PARASITES.

>>4180191
It could be worse.
It could be brain parasites.

>>4180191
[ ] Crazy Battler hobo end
[ ] Happy shipperfag end
[ ] THE DID MEIDO KILLED THEM ALL

Choose one.

>>4180246
Is genuflect an option?

Please?

>>4180250
You'll end up genuflecting no matter what ending there is, so no, you still have to choose the route to your specific genuflection.

I hate to say it, but no matter how much I love this series, I can't see a decent end in sight.

Ryukishi says it won't pull the same shit that he did with Higurashi. Gives us an even stupider ending instead.

>>4180246
[x] It's magic!

>>4180256
>I hate to say it, but no matter how much I love this series, I can't see a decent end in sight.
I feel the same, but im really hoping it will have a good ending. if its anything less than decent then im going to an isolated island with my family and meet witch's and end up going crazy and have an obsession with big breasts.

>>4180246
[x] Crazy Battler hobo end

I want to see the GRIMDARK that will be thrown on the series. Fuck you and your insisting that Battler considers a Moetrice to be fine too. I want this to lead into R07's other novel series with the SPACE MARINE LOLI BEATO in it.

>>4180276
Denial is better.

I can always pretend that the game ended in episode 6.

Ryukishi07 will fake his own death and immortalize Umineko as an unsolved mystery.

>>4180246
[ X ] Happy ending.

I just don't give a shit how, you just give me a happy ending.

[x]Amakusa is Battler with amnesia end or Battler x Ange end

I can just see R07 with the itrollu.jpg face on when he came up with the brain parasite thing.

>>4180174
Is this some kind of doujin cover? I'm curious

Remember when the pony theory seemed plausible? There were clear holes, but it seemed pretty sturdy.

I miss my shipfaggy dreams.

>>4180298
I'm pretty sure he thought it was a decent twist.

>>4180316
It was never solid, a Beatrice that exist outside and somehow come during the storm is even more contrived than DID meido.

>>4180329
No, it isn't. But oh well, after lolbrainparasites I guess a character with DID isn't that impossible either.

What about Kyrie hiring a commando unit to kill them all?

>>4180329
So the idea of someone existing on the island is stupider than LOL SHKANNONTRICE DID IT?

At this point I think I'd take Teatrice or the Manon theory over DID maids.

>>4180282
Pretty sure that's what will happen anyway.

I'm fine with that.

Umineko is overrated garbage circlejerked by retards

>>4180418
I...don't know if I'm fine with a hobo end. At this point, most people seem to shoot it down immediately, because Battler apparently stopped being crazy in EP6. I didn't think he'd end up thinking a moeblob Beatrice with occasional trolling moments was a good replacement.

I don't miss the pony theory. I miss when the EP6 spoilers had just come out and everyone thought Battler was absolutely batshit and rage-filled, instead of BAAAWWWTLER TO THE EXTREME BAWWWWW.

>>4180409
Well, everything works with Moon-theory, so I'm just chilling out and watching the troll-fest.

>>4180409
>>So the idea of someone existing on the island is stupider than LOL SHKANNONTRICE DID IT?
Yeah, simply because, while stupid, ShKanontrice had a lot of foreshadowing.
The other theory is both stupid and has been disproved as impossible several times.

>>4180409
Y'know, even if Shkanontrice is true, they aren't automatically the culprit.

>>4180431
Battler doesn't like Moetrice.

>>4180435
They are.
You can only explain the great majorities of the closed room, and therefore most of the murders, thank to ShKanontrice.

>>4180437
And for this I am glad.

>>4180438
No, you can explain most of the murders with Shkanon by itself, the trice is just extra fluff.

>>4180437
That's why he married her.

>>4180442
The "trice" explains episodes 2-3-4, ShKanon by itself can't.

>>4180449
Meh, Shkanon with Jessitrice can.

>>4180462
No it can't.
Try with episode 1, 2 or 3.

>>4180448
Any human being would marry some form of Beatrice if given the opportunity, no matter how shitty the version of Beatrice was.

Didn't they just get married because they were in the chapel already, and it was set up for a wedding anyways?

Umineko needs a good ending.

Will we get one?

We'll find out in about 6 months.

Bern is supposed to give us most of the mystery now, right? Episode 8 will be icing on the cake and lying loose ends.

Just pray. Pray hard. If you are Athiest pray anyway, can't hurt for the rest of us.

>>4180474
Meh, Battler doesn't see Beatrice directly in 1-3, so I don't see why it has to be Shannon or Kanon.

>>4180498
Yes. We will get a happy ending. There is totally not a culprit out there who is killing people for her own ends, and has been shown to lie blatantly many times.

>>4180498
Wait, are we hoping for a good ending or a Good End?

A well written end and a happy end are not necessarily the same thing.

>>4180500
He sees her at the very end of episode 1.
And even in the end of 2 though he is drunk.

>>4180514
>>4180513
I meant 'good ending' as in well written, but if somehow was a 'Good End' I'd be happy too. But that post meant 'good ending'

>>4180514
Think of what we could possibly get with a Good End.

Since Shkanontrice can't obviously be together with three people, THE POWER OF LOVE(tm) will somehow allow them to separate into different bodies of their own.

YOU WOULDN'T PUT IT PAST RYUKISHI

>>4180519
See, those scenes are meta, aren't they?
After she appears for the first time, he denies witches, and there we go-go-go to the Meta.
And in episode 2 he's piss drunk.

>>4180537
Shkanontrice people are delusional.
Battler narrates him and Erika seeing them together, and yes, he's an unreliable narrator, but pieces can not act against their nature, I do not see Battler lying about Shkanon for any reason.

>>4180541
Last scene of episode 1 after Natsuhi's death isn't meta.
He clearly sees "Beatrice", Maria runs up to her, Jessica and George are with him.
Then midnight and the game ends.

>>4180558
>Shkanontrice people are delusional.
>implying I even like Shkanontrice

>>4180558
He saw Kinzo, but Kinzo was dead. His narration was unreliable as fuck.

Moreover, if it were to protect Beato's 'heart' - her mystery - from Bern and Erika, you bet your ass he'd lie about it. He's Meta Battler, he only carries Beato, not Shannon or Kanon.

Not that I necessarily believe in Shkannon either, but it's really easy to justify what you just said.

>>4180558
Pieces not acting against their nature doesn't mean this.
It just mean that they can't do anything that would completely go against their personality and history.
But the GM can do whatever they want with the characters if they don't go over that limit.

Honestly it seems like you are the one who is delusional.

>>4180567
It was episode 5 Battler who said that, lol. He didn't know the whole truth yet.

>>4180575
Oh, ok, I'm delusional because I doubt that Battler would lie about Kanon and Shannon being the same person, despite the fact that he knows that his cousin George is getting MARRIED to Shannon, and his cousin Jessica is in love with Kanon.
Makes perfect sense.

>>4180316

Remember when Kyrie was the culprit and not Shkannontrice or Moon-chan.

God I miss those days.

>>4180576
Um, what?

He said that after his whole "and then I knew" bit. I don't think he had any major revelations after he said that either.

>>4180231
Good thing there was more to Higurashi than just the mystery, so it was great even with brain parasites. Unfortunately Umineko doesn't have anything else going for it and even the mystery is shit.

>>4180583
Battler isn't "in control" in this episode so he isn't lying.
It's the fucking game master aka Lambda who control the narration, that's why it was unreliable.

>>4180585
Don't stop believing anon! It can happen!!

;_;

>>4180585
I don't mind Moon-chan.
Fuck, I'm rooting for the bitch!
I just don't believe this Shkanontrice nonsense, and look forward to the next episode.

>>4180593
>Good thing there was more to Higurashi than just the mystery

What, annoying bitches?

>>4180605
There's something I still don't understand about that..did Battler actually fire his gun at whoever that Beatrice was?

Behold, the answer to the mystery, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!

Wow, I'm rereading Ep. 1 right now.

The scene where Battler first meets Kanon is very interesting. Upon looking at it, Kanon really seems nervous around Battler, maybe even shy.

When I read it the first time, I assumed it was just yaoi bait (mostly because some girl recommended Umineko to me,) but when you reread it, the whole scene reeks of shyness. It's kinda disturbing actually.

And because I accept the fact that Shkanon loves Battler, I "see" it, I guess...

>>4180604
I just want Kyrie to be involved some way.

I mean fuck, out of all the MILFs she has had the least development.

Natsuhi got 2 arcs, Eva got one arc, Rosa got one fuckin arc. All three of them are always being developed in major ways.

What does Kyrie have? Bitches and Whores, a weak story about how her sister had it hard and that's pretty much it.

>>4180622
No, he just loaded a new bullet.

>>4180632
Hey, she can still be involved. Just because Moon-chan is a sociopathic liar doesn't mean Kyrie can't be a total bitch too.....

>>4180610
Fuck you.
Keiichi is fuckawesome.
And some arcs are pretty scary and dramatic. And a huge mindfuck.

>>4180637
But I don't want Moon-chan to be the mastermind.

She has street smarts and can lie, but I just don't think she's smart enough to think of an entire massacre + possible bombing and plan the way to pull it off.

>>4180631
Well, fuck.

...brb, rereading that scene again.

>>4180605
FFFFFFFUCK

>>4180643
Well, Umineko is a clusterfuck of trolls. That's why I use the term culprit, not mastermind, It's basically trolls trolling trolls.

>>4180631
I'd still like to know what Kanon said completely after that scene Battler helps out and then everyone leaves.

>>4180605
why is kanon dressing in drag?

or is shannon dressing as beatrice
or maybe its beatrice dressing as beatrice..wait

>>4180636
What's with the traces of blood on Maria's face then?

>>4180652
But there must be one main culprit.

>>4180660
that image was from the OP for EP 1. Dramatic effect?

>>4180664
Meh, well, Jessica lies in every episode, so her malicious intentions are a constant. I suppose you could have Shkanontrice be the one to freak out and cause everyone to die.

Although, out of all the culprits, Jessica doesn't really stand to gain much typical wealth, or power, or anything, so she could just be in it for fun.

I think Jessitrice and Shkanon both apply actually.

Think about episode 4. Jessica knew she was going to be shot in the head. The explanation I propose is that Shkanon was manipulating Jessica under threat of gunshot because she was too shy/cowardly to confront Battler herself. The Beatrice we see on the balcony is Jessica in disguise, acting as a mouthpiece for Shkanon.

Why? Because Shkanon is jealous of Jessica's looks. I'm assuming at this point Shkanon is a flat chested loli with black hair (mostly due to the delicious irony of Battler's statement.) Battler told her in person in an earlier conversation how he likes girls who look like Jessica. This is why Shkanon would be so eager to hide her appearance for Battler, and try to create a new one for him. Her "love" for him is a form of embelishment, really.

Because Jessica didn't receive the information that Shkanon was looking for from Battler, she keeps to her threat and shoots Jessica.

The more I reread, the more convinced I am of Shkanon. I believe she is the mastermind, but the piece Beatrice we see is actually Jessica under the command of Shkanon. A "piece" in the most literal sense.

I'll update more if I figure anything out.

>>4180685
When does Battler say he likes lolis. I thought he was breast sommlier or something.

>>4180681
What does she lie about in every Episode?

Also, I haven't been around here in a while, but since when have you all accepted Jessica-being-a-culprit?

>>4180689

Jessica doesn't need to be added at all.
You guys are just desperate to make her an interesting character.

>>4180689
>When does Battler say he likes lolis.
He was joking.

>>4180689
He says it to piece Beato when she says "Am I not the embodiment of your ideal."

That line of Battler's is what converted me to Shkanon actually. The irony would be absolutely amazing.

The jealousy part of my theory mostly comes from Ryukishi's apparently hardon for tiny instances of jealousy flaring up into raving lunacy. We'll see how it plays out, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct at this point. On this at least.

Shannon is pretty fucking suspicious.

Case in point; What we learn about her in Episode 2.

It gives her Motive, Foreshadowing (She broke the mirror for Beatrice, making it possible for the murders to occur in a sense) and all of that jazz.

Just saying.

>>4180694
It's better than the alternative of Shkannontrice.

>>4180685
Y'know, if I were Jessica and being held at gunpoint, I'd just jump off the balcony and tell Battler: HOLY SHIT SHANNON IS OUT OF HER MIND BRO LETS GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM HERE, not fail at getting Battler to remember and then walk inside to my death.

>>4180694

>>4180694
>>since when have you all accepted Jessica-being-a-culprit?
Only a few idiots accepted that.
There's nothing backing it up, except the fact that she lied about Kinzo, something that can easily be explained by her having been heavily briefed by Natsuhi and Krauss.

>>4180697
I couldn't help it.

>>4180705
Get this, though. Jessica is in love with the Kanon persona. The demons that appeared in Ep 6 show that Jessica is willing to do something really fucking stupid in the name of that love. If she's willing to kill a random person, this really doesn't seem too far fetched to me.

>>4180704
Moon-chan theory doesn't contradict Shannonkanontrice or whatever the lastest theory on Beato is.

Moon-chan theory is simply suspicion that comes from Jessica's habit to blatantly lie about Kinzo, about her family dying BY Kinzo, about who the culprit is, about magic, and basically everything she says.

>>4180705
>implying Jessica is smart enough to do that

anybody can lie, just sayin'

>>4180685
Then explain this >>4180605

>>4180712
Memory is clearly failing me now, but I don't think that I remember her lying about Kinzo.

>>4180712
Oh, and the fact that she lied about Natsuhi dying by Kinzo, and her little phone call to Battler, and everything else. But I'm sure only idiots believe it.
Oh, and Krauss and Natsuhi think that Jessica doesn't know, so even your "easy explantion" fails hard.

>>4180715
except she was very hesitant about killing to begin with. She only decided to do it after talking to Kyrie. Kyrie even knew all along that Jessica was lying to her.

>>4180697
I lol'd at the filename

>>4180715
Except she had to be possessed to do it, unlike everybody else. If anything those scenes make her look more innocent than everyone else.

In episode 4, I bet Beatrice mode ShKanon just threatened Jessica and Kyrie using Kanon and Rudolf life on the line.

>>4180727
Meh, to be fair, fantasy scenes don't reveal the true side of a character, nor do they show the limits put on them.

>>4180727
Even still, I'm thinking the fact that "demonic possession" even appearing as a symbolism for mad desire in ep 6 makes it seem plausible. Once again, I'm just speculating. Let's just hope R07 doesn't die and leave this shit unsolved.

>>4180740
That fails, hard, because Jessica knows Shannon and Kanon very well. If they are the samefag, she'd of all people would know, so it'd be like that scene in blazing saddles where the sheriff holds himself hostage.

>>4180743
>I'm thinking the fact that "demonic possession" even appearing as a symbolism for mad desire in ep 6 makes it seem plausible

I actually really like this.

>>4180740
Wow! <Good>. She could have said "I will shoot you AND MYSELF, Jessica."

Jessica's strong love for Kanon might be along the lines of "Don't die! Take me instead!" or something

>>4180727
> except she was very hesitant about killing to begin with. She only decided to do it after talking to Kyrie.
Waaiiiiiiit a minute... if you look at this abstractly... it could be a hint as well. If Kyrie were the culprit, who on the island would be the best person for her to have as an ally?

>>4180741
>Meh, to be fair, fantasy scenes don't reveal the true side of a character, nor do they show the limits put on them.
>implying fantasy scenes are worthless

Yeah okay, tell that to Kyrie who had her jealously revealed in a fantasy scene.
Or George, who was portrayed as the nice guy up until his fight with Gaap.
Or Kanon, who always fights and defends Jessica.
Or Kumasawa, who was seen fighting against Beatrice.
Or Shannon who always says that being George's wife is the high point of her life.

Yep, fantasy scenes sure don't reveal anything!

>>4180758
Yes, and then Jessica burns her in the fires of hell. A fine example of NOT AS PLANNED if I ever saw one.

>>4180747
There's even a flashback with both of them seen with her.

>>4180747
>she'd of all people would know
OH KANON-KUN! YOU'RE SO DARK AND MYSTERIOUS AND ANTISOCIAL AND DEFINITELY NOT MY BEST FRIEND SHANNON!

>>4180721
My explanation is purely for that episode 4 situation.

>>4180747
She doesn't know, Only Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo know.
Blame it on her stupidity, or R07 contrived story, but I'm pretty sure she really doesn't know.

>>4180767
okay I laughed

>>4180764
> Or Kumasawa, who was seen fighting against Beatrice.
For a specific reason, mind. And Kumasawa-as-Virgilia is the only time we've seen her actually fight against Beatrice.

>>4180770
I'm not sure. Jessica DID talk about the "creating an alternate persona" with Kanon.

Actually, some more evidence I've come across:

When Shkanon visits Jessica at school, he is wearing a VERY obscuring jacket, but only the "black hair" is visible (see previous post.)

Also, notice how all the girls were talking about how cute and feminine looking he was. The whole scene reeks of fishy. I can easily see Jessica asking Shannon "Hey, can "Kanon" be my date to the school concert," and Shannon disguises herself because Jessica is too pathetic to actually have a boyfriend at the time. It's the equivalent of taking your mother to prom.

>>4180782
Beatrice said that Virgilia and her staged the battle.
But Beatrice also said she was tricking Battler the entire time.

EP 5 reveals Virgilia and Ronove came into the game after EP 2 to help Battler, because he had a hard time against Beato before.

>>4180794
>>Reeks of Fishy

Well, they are Japanese after all...

>>4180794
Well shit, hadn't thought about it that way.

>>4180770
Well, you can assert your opinion all you want, but it's explicitly stated she has close relationships with both Shannon and Kanon. It's impossible for her NOT to know.

>>4180794
DAT JACKET

>>4180794
>I'm not sure. Jessica DID talk about the "creating an alternate persona" with Kanon.

Except that persona was "Jessie", which she used at school to have more fun. Not a witch.

>>4180794
Starting to sound kinda "intellectual rapist" there. If you were an RPer, I'd fucking hate you.

I'm not sure about you guys, but I'm all for a hot loli Shkanon. It saves George from gay-end too.

>>4180797
I think Kumasawa is the fishiest.

>>4180764
I think it's worth mentioning that throughout all of these fantasy scenes, it almost seems like Kanon is struggling the most, like he has the most to lose. Which is odd.

>>4180805
What exactly is Shannon saying there? Because if it's a flashback of some sort on Kanon's part, then it might not mean much... but if it's like she's actually talking to him or reacting to what the girls are saying....

>>4180807
I think that conversation was more of a subtle, hinting way of saying "Keep up this facade for me, Shannon. I'm so ronery ;_;"

>>4180807
Not that, bro, the fact that she mentioned the concept of a persona. The Jessie thing was an example she used to explain the concept to Shwhoeverthefuckon, hence, the opinion that Moon-chan created Kanon.


But just to troll you, Evatrice couldn't deny that Jessica had a witch like persona in red.

>>4180814
dohoho

>>4180824
You mean didn't deny. We still don't know if she could have or not.

>>4180820
Shannon told Kanon to keep girls away from him at the concert, all he had to say was 'I'm with someone'. Kanon said said, girls kept twittering away. Shannon says something silly (in the manga only) like, 'but it worked in the game!'. Nothing really relevant.

>>4180824
very true. Either way, I like both theories actually because:

if Shkanon: We get hot, black haired yandere loli

if Jessitrice: Cousincest

it's a win/win.

>>4180824
Evatrice didn't have to deny it - Jessica couldn't see at all and she's confirmed not to be a murderer (for EP 3) either.

>>4180831
Maybe, but at this point, pretty much anything from past Episodes could be a hint.

>>4180837
Jesus fuck, how many times must it be said, Beatrice doesn't have to be the culprit!

>>4180817
because Kanon isn't real and was created to satisfy the wishes of a lonely teenager, who probably should lay off all the romance novels. Didn't they say girls who read Twilight have unrealistic romantic expectations *ahaha.wav*

>>4180837
Nah, stated in red that her body did not kill Nanjo.

Just that!

>>4180805
The jacket wouldn't really be necessary, unless you were trying to HIDE something. Something like SMALL TITS.

A boy that thin shouldn't have SMALL TITS on him. Hence, Jacket.

Ryukishi obviously lurks on 2ch looking at anon's various theories, only to not so subtly shoot them down by incorporating them into his games. I fully believe that that was the intention when the whole 'Jessica's other persona' was shot down by Evatrice.

>>4180851
Don't see any red denying that, bro. Just see a bunch of equivocations.

>>4180851

No red shoots down her other persona, just that if another persona existed, it could not have used Jessica's body for Nanjo's murder.

That's a HINT that it quite possibly does exist.

>>4180767
Oh Moon-chan, u so crazy....

mmmmm

I don't really see the point of discussing Jessica that much, at most she is an accomplice at the same level as a Kumasawa.
She definitely isn't the main culprit.

>>4180931
Oh, well, I'm sure she's just planning a halloween party.... for Maria!

I rest my case. This level of reasoning is possible for anonymous. What do you think, everyone~

>>4180942
Oh u!
Nah, she's freaking sketchy.

>>4180961
Welcome to two months ago!

>>4180931
Woah, sauce?

>>4180971
Two months ago was November. I recall quite a bit of people proclaiming Shkanon was dead back then. Even still, I don't care. Great minds tend to think alike after all.

>>4180963
I guess this guy is in the clear then. No one ever talks about him.

>>4180995
Nah, a bunch of people are trying to claim he boned the 60's Beato and produced the baby of 19 years ago.

>>4180987
Jessitricefag here(don't stone me!), when I first read that scene I followed a very simple train of thought.

Japan = Sexist = Women can't lift shit up = Kanon can't lift shit up = Kanon is a woman.

>>4180961

>>4180999
Dude, he's Rudolf, he boned everyone that Kinzo didn't. Maybe.

>>4180931
Wow, that scares the shit out of me. If she's a culprit, I definitely want her to give off the HOLY FUCKING EVIL vibes this picture is.

>>4181009
At first I read this as "Dude, he's Rudolf, he boned everyone and Kinzo. Maybe."

I was okay with this.

>>4181001
Well it turns out both of us were right: He's a loli.

>>4180931
What I'm seeing here is "BAAAAW TEENAGE ANGST MY LIFE IS BORING WHINE MOAN BITCH". What's that suppose to mean?

so is shkannon suppose to be a guy or girl?

>>4181009
Except Kinzo did have rape with Beatrice.

But I think Kyrie is Battler's mother. People going into the idea that he had sex with 1967 Beatrice are people looking for a shocking twist and are in denial of the obvious answer.

>>4181054
Shkanon's a girl. Ryu talks too much about man/woman relationships, and it's obvious that Shkanon was the one Battler made the broken promise to.

Shkanon is a loli with black hair and small tits that must be concealed by a RIDICULOUS SQUARE ENIX JACKET

>>4180870
Maybe so. I, for one, took it as Evatrice just getting sick and tired of Battler trying to somehow blame Jessica and just shooting down his train of thought at its very core.

>>4181042
Well, I see someone who seems to want to spice up her life.... by killing everyone!
Or something to that effect...

>>4181066
A possibly-19-year-old loli.

...Wait a minute... Is Umineko turning into Ladies versus Butlers?

Can someone explain how the Shkannon theory works in EP4?

>>4181073
Wasn't that loli in YMK 19 years old?

>>4181080
ShKanon doesn't work there, same for episode 2 and 3.
ShKanontrice does though.

>>4180961
I just realized that Kanon's beret is in the same approximate position that Beatrice's rose would be.

(Shannon's isn't, though.)

>>4180685

see >>4181080

Jessica knew she was going to be shot in the head. The explanation I propose is that Shkanon was manipulating Jessica under threat of gunshot because she was too shy/cowardly to confront Battler herself. The Beatrice we see on the balcony is Jessica in disguise, acting as a mouthpiece for Shkanon.

Why? Because Shkanon is jealous of Jessica's looks. I'm assuming at this point Shkanon is a flat chested loli with black hair (mostly due to the delicious irony of Battler's statement.) Battler told her in person in an earlier conversation how he likes girls who look like Jessica. This is why Shkanon would be so eager to hide her appearance for Battler, and try to create a new one for him. Her "love" for him is a form of embelishment, really.

Because Jessica didn't receive the information that Shkanon was looking for from Battler, she keeps to her threat and shoots Jessica.

That's my theory at least

>>4181083
Hm... Episode 3: George is able to bring back the Shannon personality after it was "killed", but then Kyrie shoots her and George.

>>4181081
I laughed so hard at that scene. Superior VN

>>4181088
see
>>4180705


That makes no sense.
Also, do be aware that Beatrice acts like her own person. You are assuming that Jessica would randomly be able to pass off as Beatrice, despite being a hostage who is about to get her head blown off.
Jessica would either have to
A: Practice a Beatrice imitation extensively, or
B: Have a Beatrice persona
to pass off as Beato effectively.

>>4181099
>but then Kyrie shoots her and George.

I see what you fucking did there. im okay with it

>>4181066
It's useless...Battler will never be fooled by fake breasts

>>4181107
I already explained my reasoning in an earlier post.

Although, it could be possible that Jessica was actually drunk too. Kinzo does keep the booze in his room...

>>4181114
Battler relies on his sense of touch to see things. This is why he likes to touch tits so much. And also why he is so fucking incompetent.

>>4181114
This is true.

A wine sommelier wouldn't confuse shitty Minute Maid grape juice for a fancy-ass wine, and Battler wouldn't confuse inserts and genuine bounciness.

Er..there's a problem with Episode 4. Battler found Shannon's body in the back of the mansion near the well. Who shot Shannon?

>>4181118
Your theory still makes no sense, hostage situations do not work that way.

>>4181133
Oh, that would be Jessica.

What is this Shkannontrice theory? I honestly did try to search it up, but all the results just talks about how stupid it is, but not telling me what it is.

>>4181133
Fake body.
If ShKanon is true, then there's a fake body for Shannon, otherwise it can't work, think of episode 1 for example.

>>4181133
Amakusa.

>>4181088
Considering Beatrice's hair and eyes are different colors from Jessica's, and that if Shkanon really is DFC, she's obviously able to pad quite well, I don't see why it couldn't simply be Jessica being held at gunpoint by the Beatrice personality (already dressed in the piece-Beatrice outfit), which had destroyed the Shannon and Kanon personalities, who then blows off half of Jessica's head after the call, and then either has an accomplice threaten Kyrie or, if Kyrie is in on it, let Kyrie do as she pleases, and place a call to the guesthouse herself for Battler.

>>4181136
Once again, I'm just reasoning as I go. I also offered the explanation that Shannon threatened to shoot herself, causing Jessica to flip out at the fact that she'd lose Kanon and do what she's told.

Oh, and on the Beatrice persona: I thought Ep 6 said that Beatrice's haughty persona was based off of Jessica's.

>>4181144
Fake body won't work here. Battler checked the body himself and there can't be any doubles prepared ahead of time without foreshadowing.

>>4181144
then its already impossible.

fake corpses have already been denied in EP 5 IIRC. And Erika shouldn't be allowed to be used, if she washed ashore, because we didn't even know about her until EP 5, which means using her as part of a solution goes against "game is solvable by EP 4"

>>4181157
Except Jessica isn't haughty. The aspect of Beatrice's personality that is based off of Jessica's is the informal side of her. In a sense, the tomboyish side of her.

>>4181151
I'm mostly avoiding that because I don't like the idea of Shkanontrice.

3 personalities seems like a bit much. It's plausible, but I'm just trying to think from Ryu's perspective on which scene would look "cooler" or "more grimdark/overdramatic." He eats that shit up.

>>4181157
Doing as your told =/= doing a flawless imitation of a drunken used goods witch that manages to fool your cousin.

Like, seriously, Piece-Beato just RANTS on and on and on, it's instant and in response to Battler. If you think that the answer is Shkanon whispering in on a microphone to Jessica as for what to say, you are a moron.

>>4181174
Hm...., well what's your theory then?

>>4181133
Where was Shannon shot? Because she could simply have tossed the gun down the well if she shot herself in a not-immediately-lethal spot and then lost consciousness.

>>4181189
half her face was blown off.

>>4181171
Fake bodies have never been denied, the red text used in episode 5 was about the bodies it refered to, that's all.
Before, the red text always got around Shannon's body for some reason, always with the "unidentified bodies are guaranteed".

>>4181194
Wasn't that Jessica?

>>4181181
I'm under the assumption that Shkanon had confided in Jessica.

I'm curious as to what position you take actually. Are you Shkanontrice, Jessitrice, or, god forbid, Kyrietrice.

>>4181200
everyone had their face half blown off except:

George, Kyrie, Maria, and Kanon (who was never seen, but has a hole in his chest apparently)

>>4180624
IF Kanon and Shannon are the same person, who's the 17th PERSON? Proclaimed in the red, Game Master Beatrice said that '17 people exist', 'No more than 18 people exist' for all games excluding the 5th and possibly FURTHER. Then, could mysterious person X theory exist once MORE? Perhaps Erika could count as the 17th person in the 5th game, or was added as the 18TH? THEN WHO WAS PHONE?!

>>4181189
Half her head was destroyed.
>She was probably shot with a gun or something. A demon stake had fallen near her body. The stake did not kill her.

If there was a gun, then it can't be down the well. Battler couldn't open it, even as he ran to the garden shed for an axe. Anyone else think something about the access to the well is strange?

whose bodies weren't confirmed by Battler by the end of EP4 second twilight?

>>4181222
There are 16. 16 people not including Erika. Ep 6.

>>4181181
Oh, for the love of god, this.
I believe that Jessica was Beatrice in episode 4, and even I think this is stupid.

Shannon: Jessica, quick! Pretend you are Beatrice!
Jessica: Wait, wait, why?
Shannon: I'll kill Kanon!
Jessica: But, uh, you ARE Kanon....
Shannon: That's not important right now! I need you to ask Battler about his sin. Wear this dress!
Jessica; Why don't you do it yourself, Shkanonalanadingdong, or whoever you are?

Shannon: B-b-because I d-d-on't want Battler to get the wrong idea, it's not like I like him or anything...
Jessica: But, uh, Shannon, I don't KNOW what Beatrice is like, how can you expect me to act like her?
Shannon: You'll act like her, or.... DIE!

>>4181233
everyone but George. Battler saw his corpse on the way to see Beatrice on the balcony. Gohda and Kumasawa too, possibly.

>>4181233
Only Kanon's.

>>4181142

1) Shannon has 3 personalities; Shannon, Kanon, and Beatrice.

2) Shannon and Kanon die in very suspicious ways (EP3 is explained as the Shannon and Kanon personalities perishing, thereby leaving the Beatrice personality to fake the closed rooms) in every episode

3) Shannon is one of the few people that can use Battler's sin as motivation for committing the Rokkenjima incident.

>>4181237
Good point, but the way you presented that seems pretty Ryukishi tier, so I wouldn't put it past him.

>>4181242
Damn....that does sound stupid

>>4181204
I follow the Moon, good sir. I don't waste my time on such trivial matters as who Beatrice is or isn't. And Kyrietrice? What? I can see her as a culprit, but as Beatrice?

>>4181221
...Hm. That means that only Maria or Kyrie could have killed the final person to have her face blown half-off, and considering Maria probably hasn't killed anyone (but could certainly have hidden the gun that was used to shoot Kyrie/that Kyrie may have used to commit suicide)...

>>4181237
>Shannon: B-b-because I d-d-on't want Battler to get the wrong idea, it's not like I like him or anything...

HOLD UP THERE MISTER. I thought Jessica and Beatrice were the tsunderes of this series.


you are now realizing only jessica and beato are both tsunderes

>>4181250
It also has a lots of hints found in every episodes.
It's the strongest theory now.

>>4181222
Erika was the 17th person in that bit of red text. Battler and Beatrice were talking to her and stated in red "Including you, it's 17 people." or "Including you, there are 17 people."

>>4181251
I'll respectfully disagree with some of your reasoning, but I can definitely agree that Jessica is damn sketchy.
Damn sketchy indeed.

I hold firm to my Shkanon theory. Loli shkanon is looking to be the only possible answer there.

(gay end would be pretty awesome though, wouldn't it.)

>>4181251
Ah, a fellow entity of good tastes, one sees.
As the saying goes, follow the Moon, troll everyone!

>>4181254
>I thought Jessica and Beatrice were the tsunderes of this series.

What about Battler?

Battlertrice confirmed!

>>4181267
Do moonmen think that Jessica is beato, or are they just concerned with how sketchy she acts, and that she acts as an accomplice. That's more than obvious by now.

>>4181254
WRONG. Beato is a Tsundora.

there's a difference.

>>4181273
Oh, well, Moon-theory at it's core is Jessica's sketchiness, and the belief that she is a wild-card, of sorts. We believe that she is not an accomplice in the traditional sense, no. Her whole thing is manipulation, so we believe that she has a bit of.... shall we say, practical initative in her.

>>4181273
We are moonmen now. I like this.

>>4181282

How does Jessica fit in with Battler's sin?

>>4181287
She doesn't have to. The sin only has to create an avenue for her to take advantage of (say, Shkanon's mental instability).

>>4181282
Ok, then let's reverse it. JESSITRICE STYLE.

Jessica plans to die together in love with Shkanon, but for some reason I can't figure out now, Shkanon ends up on the balcony to test Battler. Shkanon is drunk and ends up pretty much revealing that Battler and her have a thing. Jessica sees this and is filled with massive lesbian rage, and when Shannon isn't looking, she shoots her for betraying her, and later shoots herself.

God, the melodrama would be delicious. So much lesbian tears.

>>4181299
Correction, I meant Moon style. Pardons.

>>4181287
Does she? Funny thing about evil, it tends to take advantage of chaos. Opportunities present themselves, and people show their true colors.

I am the 5th game piece Dlanor, I do not possess knowledge of any further GAMES.
>>4181236
>>4181262
>Game Master Beatrice said that '17 people exist', 'No more than 18 people exist' for all games excluding the 5th and possibly FURTHER.
>excluding the 5th and possibly FURTHER.

UNDERSTOOD. Erika is the 17th PERSON.

>>4181304
> Opportunities present themselves
Hmmmm.... What was it that Beatrice said about Battler's sin? Something along the lines of it "creating a wiggle in the cogs"? Something about an opportunity?

>>4181313
wait wait! Good point. Jessica might not be Beatrice, but she might be evil, and manipulating Shkanon to her ends.

Shit, next game, odds are we'll figure out that Shkanon is Beatrice, but Ep 8 will be a final showdown with Jessica: The true antagonist.

>>4181299
>but for some reason I can't figure out now

You're starting to sound like Battler, bro.

>>4181314
Okay, glad you understand. But no roleplaying here please. We have other imageboards for that, and this neat little community called Gaiaonline where such behavior is encouraged.

>>4181299
Oh, Moon theory =/= Jessica being a yandere lesbian. The cruel dent in Shkanon is that Jessica would know. One constant person, who no matter how you view Beatrice, ends up the same. Knowing things that she does not tell, and telling people things that she should not know.

>>4181326
And guess who eventually figured shit out.

I may not be the worlds best detective, but I'll get it eventually. No matter how torturous.

>>4181332
Look, man. Maybe deep down I just WANT there to be yandere lesbians.

how does this tie into the george=kumasawa theory

>>4181332
Oh yeah, totally. My post wasn't too serious anyways.

I was trying to fuse your theory with mine, but it turned out kinda fucked up looking.

>>4181344
Yes?

>>4181353
I don't mind having theories refuted actually. Getting to solve the mystery together with good friends using teamwork is what we're all about. Scooby Doo style, man.

>>4181314
I know you are an RPer and all, but, why does Dlanor do that to the last word at the end of the SENTENCE? Is it the way it is WRITTEN?

Well, Umineko is like Scooby Doo, except everyone dies, and the monster is actually Old man Kanon.

>>4181373
But then who was battler?

>>4181372
Actually, she RANDOMLY tends to STRESS specific WORDS in her SENTENCE because that is the TYPICAL way to TRANSLATE katakana.

>>4181373
I always fancied it was more like Clue, but I'm all for a floating beatrice gooing "OOOOOOH OOOOOH" and the trollface being a rubber mask.

>>4181332
God, why am I hearing a remix of Rog Limitation in my head right now?

>>4181381
I think she only uses the katakana at the end of her sentences.

Usually just "desu/masu/masen".

What the fuck! Why does Ryu have such a Scooby Doo obsession?

Remember how Higurashi ended? Fuck that guy.

>>4181396
>>4181381

I'll take either, really, it was just bugging me. Thank you.

>>4181394
I just now decided to listen to it after you mentioned it... AND NOW I CAN'T STOP PICTURING JESSICA WITH AN EVIL GRIN AND ACTING LIKE KAEDE FFUUUUUUUU

>>4181355
>>4181440
The ironic part is that Jessica has Natsuru's VA.

...FFFF

>>4181440
At least Kaede has the good grace to be fuckobviously evil, Moon-chan doesn't even have lesbianism to fall back on.

I really don't like this Shkanontrice theory.
Shannontrice yes.
Kanontrice maybe.

But Shkanontrice doesn't sit right with me at all.
There has to be something else.

>>4181459
Well, we have evidence/hints for Kanontrice, evidence/hints for Shannontrice, and evidence/hints for Shkanon. So... yeah.

>>4181459
Well, have fun thinking up whatever about that Golden Bitch, I'll just chill here with my Moonbros and trollface everyone.

>>4181101
Superior VN.

Which reminds me, wasn't Tanaka working with Ryukushi on Rewrite? Superior trolling VN?

>>4181475
I thought we were moonmen?

>>4180282
No, wait, I got it.
Piece Battler wins, but Meta-Beatrice dies. Meta-Battler becomes a cynical asshole.

ENTER SPESS MEHREN!

>>4181355

>>4181299
Battler never finds a gun near either corpse. Suicide seems highly unlikely for Shannon or Jessica, because for both, half of their faces are blown off, although I believe Battler said Jessica was possibly bludgeoned, or some shit.

The only way for suicide to work is if someone took the weapon away from the corpse.

>>4181526
Maria.
Jessica most likely told her that it was all part of the magic ritual or some bullshit, and that she should take the gun when she's done.

>>4181526
I now get the imagine of Jessica just hitting her face against a wall, with a trollface on the whole time.

It's horrible.

>>4180288

Better yet, it will be a closed room mystery. Which solving would yield the solution to Seakitties.

>>4181499
the phrase "moonmen" makes me feel there's some connection with Krauss making a moonbase.

Ryukishi is a master at writing i'll tell you

>>4181510
IT'S PAAFEKUTO

No, really, it is. Final boss is defeated, Battler wins the game, etc etc. Piece-Battler goes home with the majority of his family not-dead, and Ange ends up being substantially less crazy because her precious onii-chan came home. But because meta-Battler was such a pro at winning the game, Beato's dead. Or something. Somehow, she's not coming back, or at least not anytime soon.

So Battler, crazy and missing his waifu, wanders around for a few millenia. Cue the war that SPACE MARINE BEATO is killed in. Cynical, aloof, and batshit insane hobo Battler decides to help, because he's desperate for his waifu and is ronery. ;_;

>>4181544
Yeah, true, we should stick to Moonfags. Despite Krauss's.... ah, "unique" resort planning, it may be best if we steer away from his image.

>>4181373
I agree

>>4181550
Krauss and Natsuhi are moe.
Hopeless idiots, but moe.

what is this SPHESS MEHREEN Beato I keep hearing about?

>>4181550
> something that's poisonous if eaten or drunk
Waaiiiiiit a minute....

>>4181569
R07's writing a novel where this space marine-looking girl gets killed. A sorcerer decides to "help" her find out how and why she was killed, and on that basis, she'll be able to come back. Or something.

The sorcerer's reason for helping? "You remind me...of someone I used to know."

>>4181534
So Maria took the gun(s) to some other place, took a swig of arsenic, and laid down next to her gruesome corpse of a mother, hands clasped together?

I like the idea, I'm just trying to clear up any possible holes.

>>4181569
>>4181579
Also, this is what the girl looks like.

>>4181580
I wouldn't put it past Moon-chan to tell her it was a magic potion or some shit like that, yes.

>>4181585
Crazy millenia-old sorcerer!Battler would hit that like the fist of an angry god.

And then he'd cry about it, because no matter how much of a companionship he and space marine Beato build up, it doesn't compare to the original. ;_;

>>4181579
That's kinda neat, I guess.

WHEN THE EMPRAH CRIES

>>4181606
It's not that the idea sounds super fantastic or that the novel will be exceptionally written or anything, it's that it pretty much confirms a crazy-ronery-meta-Battler hobo end for Umineko.

>>4181596
>Crazy millenia-old sorcerer!Battler would hit that like the fist of an angry god.
>And then he'd cry about it

Someone write this.

>>4181594
God, her deception is pissing me off. Her conversation with , er, ahem, "Krauss" in episode 4 makes me rage particularly

>>4181625
Anon that said that here. I've got an exam tomorrow that I've got to finish stressing over, but I'll start on this as soon as I'm done with that.

Space Marine Beato seems to be called loli sometimes. Is she or not? This...may be important.

>>4181640
She's not loli. She's 16, roughly, but she has OPPAI for all.

>>4181640
I think I love you.

>Space Marine Beato seems to be called loli sometimes. Is she or not?

Not sure if Ordeze is loli or not. She seems on the younger side from the pics, at least.

>>4181611
Because the sorcerer cannot be anyone else.

>>4181671
So she's younger than Battler's ideal, but not completely loli. Jailbait with tits, then?

I'll try my best, Anon. But I'm not exactly a pro with writing sex scenes. It might end up with more focus on the BAWWW than the fucking. :/

>>4181680
To be fair, this is Ryukishi we're talking about.

>>4181682
Feel free to write up a BAD END of your choice!

>>4181680
True, but it just fits ridiculously well. What other sorcerer would have known Beato, and have loved her enough to go crazy and start helping people just because they resembled her?

>>4181688
I'll give you that, Ryukishi is a borderline hack, so I could see him doing something so fail.

>>4181682
Hey, s'all good. I'll accept whatever you end up writing, dear Anon.

Ending of Umineko:
Battler strolls up to Jessica, shoots her in the head.

His line?

Miss Moon... Miss Moon
"puts on shades"
You are out too soon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

>>4181697
>>4181690
There might not be a bad end, necessarily. Just one that's depressing as fuck.

Any other particular requests or advice for this? When I go writefagging, I don't like to disappoint.

>>4181711
Well, do try and explain how Umineko ended. Like, why Beato is dead, and what the final Meta-battle was like.

>>4181705
YEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Although I do hope Meta-Battler takes over Piece Battler's place in the final episode so he can derail the culprit's plan.

>>4181711
Do be aware that SPESS MEHREN is a bit misleading, imagine SPESS MEHRENS but without the SPESS.

Basically, power armor, but there is no spaceships and shit.

>>4181739
Dat armor is fucking delicious.

>>4181739
No spaceships that we know of, at least.

Oh right, Ordeze is actually a princess of her country, but she's like the eighth princess or so, so she isn't really close to inheriting the throne or anything.

>>4181756
Holy shit, you guys really weren't kidding about the Space Marine thing.
Best not let /tg/ find out....

>>4181719
>how Beato died
My basic idea for this right now is that Battler wins Bern's game somehow. She probably got distracted while eating babies with Super Hanyuu, but I'm not too clear on this right now. So Battler wins, the final boss or Bern or whoever is sent off to hell or a shitty kakera or SOMETHING. But it's still the game between him and Beato, and he still has to complete Beato's "lol please kill me rightfuckingnow" request. So he, uh, does? It probably involves something like the EP4 tea party. Beato starts getting impaled with truth!stakes again, and Battler's all calm at first, acting like he's prepared for this.

But of course he isn't. He breaks down in the middle of it, and Beato can't even continue to taunt him like she did before. She doesn't have any fodder like last time, when she could just say "YOUR SISTER IS A WHORE" and Battler would rage.

Anyways, Battler somehow keeps it up, Beato's dead, blah blah blah. He tries to resurrect a Beato that doesn't fail and morph into a moeblob, but after a couple centuries of trying and failing, he just gives up. He leaves the game room once and for all, and just wanders around, like a magical motherfucking hobo. He's depressed as fuck.

Aaaand then in his ronery travels, he passes by a war zone, and sees Ordeze - or, to his eyes, a slightly younger Beato - being killed. And this prompts him to try and save her ass, naturally.

Goddamnit, this would be easier if Ryukishi's other novel had been translated. Also, excuse the plotholes and failures in this. I'm suffering from a plagueflu right now.

>>4181773
But, the Space Marines are a force for JUSTICE!
And, well, Xenos genocide, but still, it's all for the sake of JUSTICE!

Here's one of Ordeze's sisters, apparently.

>>4181797
WAIT
WAIT
GREY EYES
BLONDE HAIR
GOD
FUCKING
DAMN
IT!

>>4181797
Ah fuck, Jessica showed up too?

>>4181806
They're more of a lavender color, actually.

>>4181806
>GREY EYES

You're colorblind, bro.

>>4181787
>Goddamnit, this would be easier if Ryukishi's other novel had been translated.

We'll obviously forgive any plotholes (not like half of us have read the fucking thing).

In other words, someone translate this shit already.

Have some eyepatch lady, too.

(Forgot to mention it, but for those who don't know, the novel is called "Verochia Dragoon Story".)

>>4181835
Well, now this person actually does look a tad like Jessica...

>>4181585
>>4181797
>>4181835
Goddamn, this country must be a bit like heaven for Battler... blonde-haired, blue-eyed beauties everywhere.

>>4181849
Seems a bit like Germany....

>>4181787
There might be some Beatrice-related inconsistencies there, but fuck it, I'm too tired to care. As long as anon delivers, I think most of us will be fine with anything.

>>4181849
You know, if he likes Germany, I think Battler would really like Bernkastel.

>>4181835
Eyepatch lady is Jessica, the eyepatch is hiding her Geass.

>>4181835
Wasn't there some place online where the first section of it was posted in moonspeak? With enough harassment, we could probably convince a couple translators to convert at least some of it into glorious English.

>>4181860
I disagree.

How the fuck was that supposed to work, anyways? Would the Beatrice Battler killed be Moetrice, or would Battler's Beato come back just to get fucking stabbed by her husbando?

>>4181885
A lot of it seems to be posted up, actually, though I don't know if there's more offline.

http://rkmg.higu.biz/?a=alche&m=1&story_idx=3&list_idx=11

Any room for Rosa to be a culprit?

>>4181939
Well, she did say she spoke to Kinzo in EP2, so she's very clearly lying, but she's probably just an opportunist.

She's most likely to fuck the shit out of Battler, though.

>>4181901
That's fucking awesome, there's so much of it there.

Uh. Translators? You there? I don't even know what Ordeze's character is like. Shit.

>>4181947
Yeah, I'd go for a Battler x Rosa end.

>>4181947
Isn't Beato more likely to fuck him? And Erika already raped him.

>>4181977
Meh, well, Jessica is most likely to fuck him, as in fuck him over.

>>4181977
Beato doesn't exist in reality, so it's like saying Marisa is most likely to fuck him.

Erika raped him in meta-world, so only Meta-Battler is ruined for marriage, Piece still has a chance.

>>4181951
>I don't even know what Ordeze's character is like. Shit.

We'll forgive you if you make up a personality for her.

>>4181990
Go for a Genki-girl military captain!

I can picture Ordeze with a super military FIGHTAN SPIRIT, but with occasional sweet, dere moments. Seeing her dere side depressed Battler even more, because Beato also had the superdere thing going for her.

That also is how Battler can start the exposition dump. After the boning session, Battler is emo, and Ordeze asks him why he's sad instead of loling.

>>4182012
THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS

>>4182012
seconding thisthisthisthis

>>4182025
>>4182027
So you'd be okay with a bouncy, jailbaity shootdere Ordeze? Good to know.

>>4182063
>bouncy
Okay.
>jailbait
Hell yeah!
>shootdere
I think I love you.