/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I find it funny that Sanae is another 5th stage/playable character with sadistic tendencies towards Marisa.
They really don't like her don't they?

Is Sanae offering to fucking kill Marisa?

>>41057849
it's a convenient and easy solution
marisa's a fairy, she'll be fine

>>41057855
rip in peace

dumb crow finally got whats coming to her

man pretty good chapter, kinda short but I got plenty of good moments from it

>>41057827
>Aya in shambles
Good. Based Hatatatata as always.

Also, I think Akimaki Yuu's art is improving. It looks better than her earlier chapters.

>>41057827
>Hina wishes Nitori would stay dead
well I guess Hina answered the "I like Nitori. Do you?" question in the Kappa thread pretty clearly

>>41057847
Doesn't seem like anyone likes Marisa.
Even Reimu seems to just tolerate her existence.

>>41058179
i mean when ZUN says the character everyone likes he always meant Reimu

>>41058179
Marisa is a thief.

>>41058179
How many of these girls actually like one another? I like to imagine they're all passive aggressive to one another

>>41058254
i was under the impression that's how women normally behave

>>41058179
zun

>>41057927

>>41058472
did anon pick the other hole?

>>41058472
pretty nice of Hatate to leave a copy just for Aya next to her corpse
>>41058476
the tag says "humiliation" so yes

>>41058472

>>41057927
I like all the small tidbits, but at this rate this manga will have longer run that WaHH before it resolves.
Also no Satori or Mizuchi which was kinda meh.

Everyone is an asshole

>>41058519
yeah, I miss the sleepy eyes girls

>>41058179
Nobody likes Marisa because she's actually a good person while they are all murderous sociopaths who would sell out their own mother just for fun.

>>41058222
Still a better person than the likes of Reimu or Sakuya.

>>41058254
Almost none. Close knit friendships are a rarity among youkai.

>>41058293
Nah. They just seem that way when around men.

>>41058599
She was arrested for being a miko on a Friday.

>>41058179
>Doesn't seem like anyone likes Marisa.
Those 3 fairies like her.

Seeing that Marisa abuse left and right i think Mima is needed more than ever. She needs to come back and finally put stop to all the bullying her daughter is enduring.

Okay, I get the fighting games, but why skip PoFV? God, I know it's not the best gamewise but it's kind of shocking how much both canon and fanon ignores it. At least for the story of this manga, possessing Eiki, Yuuka or even Medicine could have done some real damage.

>>41058254
It's more or less groups and little societies. The Scarlet Mansion, Eintei group, Myouren Temple, Moriya Shrine etc all obviously like their own groups, as well as species like kappa. I think this isolation further helps Mizuchi make so much progress.

>>41058519
I kind of wonder what game they'll stop at or if they straight up plan on going until UM or TH19

Hina wishes Kappa would just die and hates Nitori and Sanae genuinely considers killing Marisa
Well RIP cutesokyo

>>41058838
>all obviously like their own groups, as well as species like kappa.
Not really, actually. Eintei is mostly just a matter of abuse and Tewi actually being in charge. In the SDM Sakuya, Patchouli, and Meiling don't seem to like each other that much. Tengu all dislike each other. Myouren is mostly just their head nun being very naïve and unware of what her followers are doing. Only group that seems genuinely all close knit is Moriya shrine.

>>41058896
>Hina wishes Kappa would just die and hates Nitori
Well, duh. Most human and human friendly gods hate the Kappa.

>and Sanae genuinely considers killing Marisa
She's a coldhearted dork who pretends to be friendly but is actually a massive dick that shouldn't be trusted.

>>41058906
>Tengu all dislike each other
They only hate Aya like everyone else. Momiji is fine with Hatate

>>41058918
Wha?
Wasn't it said in one of the official books that Kappas are friends of the humans?

>>41058906
Don't forget Hakugyokurou is likely Yuyuko keeping Youmu dumb and ignorant after having done away with Youki while Youmu's swords, specifically meant to deal with ghosts, are going completely unused towards their intended target. Yuyuko meanwhile has essentially enslaved Youmu in a bitter twist of irony

>>41058926
Doesn't Momiji have a issue with Crow Tengu in general due to classism?

>>41058935
Nitori claimed that in her first appearance and she was lying. It's mentioned she eats people later on.

>>41058953
Possibly. Though I honestly don't think Yuyuko needs to do anything to keep Youmu dumb and ignorant.

>>41058996
Yeah she wishes she could leave the mountain so i could say she's jealous, Aya made it seems like she hates all the crow Tengu but Hatate was praising her and saying it's just between her and Aya

tied up Marisa and wet Aya were pretty hot

>>41058896
>Hina wishes Kappa would just die and hates Nitori and Sanae genuinely considers killing Marisa
Holy based. I never liked how fans pair Hina and Nitori and draw them having all sorts of gross futa sex, they just got put in their place. ZUN-sama.... I KNEEL!!!!! *does the Vegito pose*

>>41059648
Same thing happened in the SDM portion. People always ship Sakuya with Meiling and canonically Meiling doesn't seem to like Sakuya for whatever reason, while Sakuya doesn't seem to think about Meiling at all.

This manga sucks.

>>41058896
>Sanae genuinely considers killing Marisa
Seemed to me that it could also have been Sanae wrongly wording if should she release Marisa and/or kicking her out, and then clumsily trying to correct herself when she realizes what she actually said. Then again, canon Sanae can be a bit of a bitch (like most characters)

>>41057921
> rip (rest in peace) in peace

>>41059705
Aya got what she deserved. I can only hope its not the last time in this manga that we see Aya abuse.

>>41058222
hey! when was the last time she "stole" something? where's the proofs?!

>>41061159
She stole the precious thing Anon, she's a monster

Good chapter, both Marisa and Aya bullying is always appreciated. Both the youkai maiden and cosplay maiden are murderhobos as usual. And Hina wants the Kappa to adopt green industry practices or be exterminated.
>>41058838
>why skip PoFV
>Yuuka
There you go.

>>41059700
>canonically Meiling doesn't seem to like Sakuya for whatever reason
When was this implied?

>>41059648
Porn and fetish are automatically irrelevant

>>41058838
PoFV has no actual antagonist.

>>41057847
Sanae just seems like she got a little excited. You can tell it's drawn with joke expression.
Kanako looks like the real bitch here for calling Marisa illegal intruder for trying to warn them.

>>41061448
To be fair, Kanako probably has 10+ conspiracies to hide so i can understand why she is like this.

>>41058838
>but why skip PoFV?
Aya was introduced in PoFV and she's been pretty prominent lately.

>>41061448
>Sanae just seems like she got a little excited
Sanae would do it if her moms told her to, she's a fanatic

>>41061276
it's not stealing if it's from alice, she deserves nothing at all
look, even hina has more acting roles than alice now

>>41061720
Last time I remember Sanae secretly dream of taking over the shrine for herself and iirc she fought Suwako in the fighting game story.

>>41058648
the fairies of light are too pure for gensokyo

>>41061105
Smh my head

will Reimu chill now or will she beat every nosy Youkai she sees?

>>41058838
>but why skip PoFV
Mizuchi doesn't wants to get kicked in her groin.

>>41058838
Its like you said in your own post. PoFV was skipped because there's no core group structure like the SDM, just a bunch of scattered youkai doing things.
>>41061693
Aya debuted in BAiJR.

>>41057827
God, can you imagine if Marisa was a boy in that situation.

>>41057827
MARISA RYONA
MARISA RYONA

>>41057827
>The detective remains uninvolved in her own manga
This is what's bugging me. For years now it was joked about how a Detective Satori would be OP but Mizuchi is always just one step ahead and Satori never is able to use her ability.
Seeing as we're on the MoF group now, let's hope things pick up in a bit since SA is Satori's debut obviously. Although it would be funny if Koishi just bodied Mizuchi seeing as I feel it'd be hard to possess her.

>>41068339
This chapter especially feels like it has nothing to do with possession case.
Aya is shown to be the next victim but turn out she was just attacked by Reimu out of the blue and pretended to be unconscious, and then Hatate shamed her for her newspaper. It's all just tengu shanenigans.
Or is it supposed to show that Mizuchi could be possessing either Reimu or Hatate?

>>41068443
It shows that she doesn't need to posses either to sow discord. Making Mizuchi first semi-competent villain in Touhou.

>>41068443
Does this look like the face of someone pretending to be unconscious to you
Aya's clearly saying that to save face, especially since she then found out Hatate had already smeared her in the papers
I think the point of Reimu attacking Aya is to show that paranoia is starting to get the best of her, since she was mad at herself for running to Eientei at the start of Akimaki Yuu's run, and Hatate is just getting a leg up on Aya, since Aya usually steals her scoops (see the AFiEU tengu talk)
I think its either Marisa or Hina that got possessed, since Marisa is actually pretty suspicious in the OP and Hina was shown drinking from the river (and drinking was how Mizuchi possessed people at the start)

>>41058472
Surprisingly cute Aya!

>>41068514
Speaking of, what's going to happen to Mizuchi at the end? With every incident game or manga wise, they seem to just kind of integrate into Gensokyo at the end after getting beat up a little. This is the first villain I can't see that happening to because she's legitimately malicious towards Reimu and caused a lot of problems for a lot of groups on her way.

>>41068595
Chances are she will hang out with whoever her accomplice is or in case she is being used by someone is simply lying to her (cough Okina conspiracy) she may make up with Reimu since she seems to have strong connection to Hakurei. Or simply be forgotten like certain orb maker.

>>41068595
seija was hunted down for her mischief
yet she's still alive and well

>>41068583
What do you mean "surprisingly?"

>>41068948
But the point is Seija didn't really have any specific target in mind, she just wanted to shake shit up for the sake of it (like Tenshi and the Yorigami sisters)

>>41058838
>Eiki
she could? unless she gone so desesperate or living ON THE EDGE I cannot se why she would risk trying
>Yuuka
and add more salt to the wound? Isn't like this matters anyways

>>41068595
It depends, if she stays as only manga character (thing I highly doubt) she would end killed or forgotten but more probably she will end as the main boss in a future game with a somewhat large arc

>>41070082
ZUN will never kill any of his daughters. Douji doesn't count since she is alter ego of Kasen.

>>41063924
Sanae is a violet and spiteful person, exactly the kind of person to try killing off the main characters if given the opportunity.
As for her moms, she just tries to make them less lazy shits at home to lessen her workload. Benign in comparison.

>>41070372
What has Sanae done to you anon?

>>41057847
Youmu... Reisen.... Sanae....
Who's next? Shou Toramaru?

>>41071193
>Reisen
I find it hard to imagine Reisen doing much of anything towards Marisa.

Anyway, next is obviously the backup dance. If only because Okita wants to give Marisa their job.

>>41068595
>I can't see that happening to because she's legitimately malicious towards Reimu and caused a lot of problems for a lot of groups on her way.
Mima wanted bloody vengeance on Reimu and she got over it.

>>41067877
The real reason why nobody important is male is because if they were the would be raped into submission long before they could do anything important.

bless.

Big milky Marisa!

>>41059700
>People always ship Sakuya with Meiling and canonically Meiling doesn't seem to like Sakuya for whatever reason
Meiling actually seems to like humans so she might have a bit of a issue with the girl that regularly cuts people apart and collects their blood.

>>41071317
Damn, she actually has tits in canon despite even the fighting game art making her flat.

>>41071317
Stole Sakuya's pads in the first arc

>>41071294
She also gave her a warning shot her telling to fuck off from the Eientei, not to forget having fun remembering the punishment room in the lunar capital.

>>41071420
She tries but with not much success, as usual.

Is the retard whale manga still on a break?

>>41071846
anon there's even a thread for the new chapter >>41035841

>>41070372
she's green not violet

>>41071846
Nah a new one came out, Reimu is continuing to be a violent drunk in that one.

>>41071513
It's kind of crazy how much this manga nerfed satori.
Went from the 11 out of 10 girl to barely being able to read minds before getting sick and collapsing, can't walk anywhere without needing someone to carry her, and her one edge (she said that mizuchi is afraid of her) turned out to be completely false when mizuchi knocked her out, at which point she discovered that she cannot hear to read her mind.
I do love that ZUN seems to just be using this manga to kill off various headcanons, though, since this one said that hina doesn't care much for nitori and that hatate us absolutely no care for aya getting beaten up by reimu because she instantly published an article about it

>>41072755
If anyone had ever actually bothered to play or see DS they would know hatate and aya never got along, and honestly quite a lot of headcanons that were popular in the fandom is frankly utterly fucking retarded.

>>41071317
Dropped. This manga is literally unreadable now.

>>41058906
>their head nun being very naïve and unware of what her followers are doing
Byakuren is perfectly aware of her youkai followers' insubordination. She turns a blind eye because she needs youkai to maintain her magic.

>>41072755
It makes sense. Satori is pretty pathetic, and only a stage 4 boss.

Basically every manga has shown that various characters are full of shit. Nobody is as strong as they claim or seem.

>>41073094
Synopsium seems to imply otherwise. Then again, that book also makes it clear she could not care less about the humans of Gensokyo. So, I would say it's a valid headcanon.

>>41072818
90% of the Touhou fanbase is built upon what would be viewed as straight up canon defilement in other fanbases. Most characters are evil sociopaths, yet you wouldn't think that going by 99% of fanwork.

>>41073270
I would say she's still a bit naive for trusting someone like Aya who in the still bit her in the ass in Lotus Eaters
>>41072755
It's karma for acting smug and shitting on the Youkai above in the start of the Manga

>>41073362
She is naive. But, to be fair, it's hard not to be trusting when you can read minds.

>>41057827
Not fair! When is it my turn to tie up Marisa in my room!?

>>41073362
patche? fuming on 4chan?
I thought you were above this

>>41073094
Where does it says that she still need or want to maintain her magic in the present, and that somehow keeping youkai do as they please is the way to do it?
On the contrary, Byakuren made Minamitsu and Joon limit their natural sinister activity to "people who deserve it" because stopping it probably would make them cease to exist completely

>>41072755
Honestly why would anyone need to worry Aya getting beaten up? Tengus are pretty strong even for a youkai, it's not like she was about to die or gravely injured. This is certainly something any youkai would just make fun about.

>>41058838
>why skip PoFV?
Probably because Eiki and Komachi would be instant plot resolvers, since there's absolutely no believable way that either of them would be threatened by a vengeful spirit.
>>41061159
She stole Seiga's veil as revealed in Symposium. Marisa is a shit.

>>41075502
>stealing from another robber
I see nothing wrong there

>>41075042
Honestly, I wish the manga would show that a bit more. Would be cool to have a Youkai just straight up get cut in two only to walk it off.

>>41073270
>Satori is pretty pathetic, and only a stage 4 boss.
Can you fuck off with this stage powerlevel secondary shit? kthx

>>41078064
I can't believe people still care about stage character appears in after Yuugi.

>>41077349
It's not like Reimu can do that other than to ugly and paper-flimsy newly-formed youkai like Fortune Teller. Any other youkai just end up with torn clothes and teary-eyes instead.

>>41079976
Reimu just hates men, Kourin-oniisan being the one exception. And he's just there to do the shit Reimu and Marisa are too lazy to do themselves, basically just a work mule.

>>41079976
Reimu is a special case since she uses faith and that's basically Youkai kryptonite.

>>41078064
I know it's not how that works. But I do still think it highlights how she's pretty weak compared to Remilia or Kaguya.

>>41080686
>it highlights how she's pretty weak compared to Remilia or Kaguya.
Is Yuyuko a weak 2hu then? she's a stage 1 boss after all

>>41080690
Yuyuko is a stage 6 boss pretending to be a stage 1 boss to "help" the heroes.

You also have Letty who zun stated was just fucking around and is more powerful than it ostensibly seems

>>41080725
Nice headcanon

>>41080729
>Headcanon
I'm pretty sure it's outright said.

>>41080728
>Was fucking around
Same for Yuyuko.

>>41080743
No source
No nothing
fuck off

>>41080748
>no source.
Read her dialogue.

>>41080763
Where does she say that she's holding back?

>>41073094
>Byakuren is perfectly aware of her youkai followers' insubordination.
Wrong.
>She turns a blind eye
Wrong.
>because she needs youkai to maintain her magic.
Wrong.
Try again. Actually, don't.

>>41080686
>Reimu
>uses faith
If she did she'd be the weakest being in Gensokyo

>>41080686
really?

>>41080775
1: Post defeat she doesn't actually look defeated like Touhou characters usually are. 2: Youmu's post fight dialogue makes it clear she was just playing around and trying to test her before she sends them off.

>>41080890
Holy weapons, basically.

>>41080896
Yeah, though I guess at least Satori isn't weak to the sun.

>>41080837
>Wrong.
Wrong.
>Wrong.
Wrong.
>Wrong.
Wrong.
>Try again. Actually, don't.
Wrong.

>>41080837
Byakuren is an incredibly dishonest woman, and only a fool would take anything she says at face value.
She's also by no means stupid or ignorant.

>>41081129
She is honestly kind of stupid though.

>>41081133
No more than anyone else, really. Though I'd say she's more lazy than stupid.
Realizing the threat of Miko's revival and trying to keep her sealed away is a clear sign that Byakuren is much more aware of what's going on around her than people realize.

>>41081129
>>41081144
Yes, Byakuren is lying all the time and your headcanon is actually what's happening.
Keep believing that.

>>41080690
the reason yuyuko got to become 6th strage boss was due the akayashi power up and yukari meddling

>>41081413
Stages have nothing to do with powerlevels
Fuck off

>>41081413
I could see Yuyu being kinda weak normally, outside of her instant death attack. But most touhous have attacks that mean instant death anyway, like Shizuha's kicks, they probably mean death to anyone who isn't superhuman.

At leats Yuyuko is S+ in fighting games.

>>41082394

>>41073270
bro, Satori can copy any spell card she want. so don't matter who many years you spende to make a perfect spell card, she can duplicate it in seconds.
she had more spell cards that Okina or Hecatia.

>>41082456
I mean, maybe she lacks stamina, but in a serious battle she has the advantages. youkai are good at physical attacks, but weak at psychic attacks, and that is Satori's specialty. He may seem weak against Mizuchi, but who has managed to stand up to him so far? if not even Kaguya or Mokou could. and Mizuchi defeated Satori in a psychological confrontation, it's like you trying to enter the mind of a psychopath.

>>41082505
> if not even Kaguya or Mokou could
you forgot someone

>>41082505
Yeah, people who call Satori weak because she got possessed by Mizuchi seems forgot that she has possessed bunch of big shots by now, including Yuyuko and Yukari. It doesn't downplay anything.
The initial argument was that Satori once said Mizuchi fears her which seems to be false, but it could be that she's afraid of direct confrontation, while she managed to possess her without Satori's notice. Her fault that she walked to Eientei alone after previously had to be carried away from Hakugyokurou and thought she's not vulnerable.

>>41081204
Just read the fucking print works...

>>41084276
Follow your own advice, as I know them better than you.

What is koishi doing during all of this?

>>41057827
Isn't it great to get a taste of your own medicine, Aya?

>>41084834
it's funny

>>41084619
She's Koishing.

>>41084834
I want to see more of this face. Much more.

>>41084905
This. Aya should be the one getting bullied by everyone instead of Marisa.

JUSTICE FOR AYA!

>>41084276
I'm re-reading SoPM right now, for the nth time.
Nothing here implies Byakuren still being an evil witch or manipulative sort. At best she's a bit neglient towards her youkai disciples who are STILL in training and have a hard time to keep check their youkai impulses, still snuck out to eat meat and drink, etc unless you stretch out your own conclusion from that.
The most "vile" thing the discussion has is Kanako trying to dismiss being responsible for causing vengeful spirits to run rampant during SA after just talked about the absolute dangers of them.

>>41084945
Marisa is the butt monkey.

>>41085010
She throws the entire human village under the bus without a second thought for the sake of her Youkai "disciples".

>>41086468
Where did she imply that?
If it's just the logic that accepting youkai gets her no human disciples or supporter, and that the youkais are still doing misdeeds anyway, it can't be helped. She does ask Murasa and Joon to only target people who deserve it (and really just those two), and it's still impossible to have both humans and youkai to sit in one table, so she opt to rehabilitate the harmful ones first, or as she claims the "most prejudiced" ones.
And even if it seems like she prioritize youkai above humans that doesn't necessarily mean she intentionally shits on them or let her disciples does number to innocent ones, and more importantly the entire Touhou narrative doesn't portray her as malicious.

>>41087071
>Where did she imply that?
In fact she never did, you're wasting time with an autist and his strawman for a character which solely exists in his mind alone. He'll just keep telling you that she's secretely evil.
I'd rather not give him (You)s.

>>41087259
I'm not keeping up with /jp/ meta but it feels like it keeps getting new autist every year who obsess over different mundane things (or it's all just one person), notably ever since the existence of /2hug/ and what seems to be "notable" individuals from /v/ or /vg/ that god knows what it just turned into, or I could just blame it to 2015 influx in general.

>>41087259
>>41087071
Sure, let's just completely forget about her wilfully ignoring Marisa's remarks on her disciples attempting to kill her. Not even correcting or excusing them. Just outright ignoring, moving on, carrying on with whatever she was talking about previously. Several times. And, may I remind you, Marisa is one of the few humans who can defend themselves. What does that tell us about those who can't?

Hell, Byakuren's go-to method for dealing with uncomfortable or contrary information is to just cough, ignore and move on. Like she does numerous times throughout the Symposium, you non-print-work-readers.

>>41087649
I'm sure she was talking about UFO incident where Marisa was engaging the fight anyway. It's more like a jab that they aren't really pacifist, and it's exactly because it's Marisa who came with danmaku on usual business that it's not an issue.
Yeah you're stretching it by picking up lines that are supposed to be humorous. 3/10 bait.

>>41087071
>Where did she imply that?
The part where they talk about the human villagers and her basic opinion comes down to "Who cares what happens to them?".

>And even if it seems like she prioritize youkai above humans that doesn't necessarily mean she intentionally shits on them or let her disciples does number to innocent ones
That is what supporting youkai means.

>and more importantly the entire Touhou narrative doesn't portray her as malicious.
It mostly portrays them as a dunch.

>>41089865
*Her as a dunch.

>>41089792
>I'm sure she was talking about UFO incident where Marisa was engaging the fight anyway.
Then you would be either wrong or a secondary, because the temple didn't exist at the time of UFO. It was repurposed from the Palanquin Ship following the events of UFO. The conversation in question pertains specifically to training at the temple these days, even, meaning explicitly long after the events of UFO.

Read the print works, "kudasai".

>>41089899
The "current" Myouren temple is only established after UFO but her known-followers are long-disciples long before thr start of the series. When Marisa met them during UFO it's clear as day they are already her followers so nothing stop Marisa from referencing the incident for their behaviour when she just interjects about what Byakuren taught to youkai, which again not portrayed as a big deal.

>The conversation in question pertains specifically to training at the temple these days
Not fucking really. You're trying to argue petty semantic that when Miko said "Myouren temple" it has to specifically refer to the current temple and not what she taught to her youkai followers in general, just to call someone a secondary. Enough with these baits anon.

These kind of arguments are why I'm actually glad Yuuka hasn't showed up in like 10 years. Both "Yuuka is more socially awkward than anything" and "Yuuka will blast anyone who looks at her flowers wrong" people are happy along with everyone in between.

>>41090497
You don't know how far those autists will go, anon. Remember the dog vs komainu thing?

>>41090447
>The "current" Myouren temple is only established after UFO but her known-followers are long-disciples long before thr start of the series.
I honestly can't tell what you're trying to say here. Seems like a desperate rationalisation to me.
>When Marisa met them during UFO it's clear as day they are already her followers so nothing stop Marisa from referencing the incident
Except the fact that Byakuren's followers hadn't seen her for a thousand years at that point, and so Byakuren could hardly be held responsible for their behaviour at that moment. However, in the years following UFO, Byakuren has had plenty of opportunity to throw a rein on her subordinates' vices, which she has not done, and which is what Marisa refers to. Because, in this case, Byakuren is culpable. Which is why it's being brought up. Because Byakuren claims discipline where there is none to be found.

I can't put this any clearer.
>Not fucking really. You're trying to argue petty semantic that when Miko said "Myouren temple" it has to specifically refer to the current temple and not what she taught to her youkai followers in general
No, you're the one pulling the goalpost a thousand years into the past to make it look like you read the fucking print works. Which you still have not. Read the fucking print works.

>>41057827
Marisa looks good without her hat and her hair fully down.

>>41087596
>and what seems to be "notable" individuals from /v/ or /vg/ that god knows what it just turned into
Would rather not go down this tangent but I'm curious. Have Touhou threads on /v/ always been pseudo generals? I skimmed them a few times out of curiosity and saw a lot of botposting and thread personality drama.

>>41090497
Let's meet in the middle: Yuuka is so socially awkward she greets people by kicking them in the balls.

>>41057827
I know its always been a thing but I don't really like how unfriendly the characters are to each other even though they are shown to drink and party together all the time.

Getting tired of Marisa being bullied all the time, also its really weird for Sanae to be revealed as double faced when all she did was smile and try to be helpful in Horned Hermit.
I can't keep up with characters changing personality all the time ZUN.

>>41090634
Anon, this particular print work is mainly discussing about the nature of youkai and Gensokyo across the timeline and what the religious leaders are gonna do with it in the future, and in context the particular article you're talking about is meant to highlight how buddhism can change youkai. It doesn't really emphasize or elaborate on how particularly terrible Byakuren, the other two or their followers other than few tidbits they just shrug off, so of course you gonna be grasping straws to find how "evil" Byakuren is when the entire narrative isn't even driven that way.
You use Marisa's vague, snarky humor lines "I was gonna get killed tho" to somehow imply she was about to be unjustly murdered, going on about the perception of the temple/disciples as if Marisa give a shit and deliberately trying to expose the temple's "crimes", when it's not even part of the main conversation she interjected just to jab on the disciples, nor there's other instance that Myouren is THAT dangerous to support the elaborate assumption that Marisa somehow implied them to be actual killers Byakuren just let loose from such vague one-liner and Byakuren trying to stay on topic, when there's actual existing implication that fit the narrative more from that.
All the "vices" stated so far are just them drinking, partying and generic youkai stuff and generally Byakuren can't help it, neglient at worst. In the end even Marisa just shrug their behaviour as "youkai are youkai after all" and ultimately nothing Byakuren does in SoPM is stated as truly malicious. So "evil" am I right?

>No, you're the one pulling the goalpost a thousand years into the past to make it look like you read the fucking print works.
That wasn't actually part of my argument, but just saying if you gonna call someone secondary for not having the same semantic and moral view on print works I just assume you're trolling. In relation the "proof" you use is just overblowing vague, irrelevant lines instead of clear, actual mattering statement.

>>41091299
personalities vary according to the atmosphere it want to create. this manga is suspenseful, that's why everyone behaves like potential psychopaths. Besides, Sanae could be possessed and we wouldn't know. I say, she is half goddess, therefore she is half youkai. Which means that if she is possessed she will experience the same thing as other youkai who have been possessed. That would explain Kanako's suspicions at first.

Aya truly deserves it

>>41092592

>>41092966
who's the most balanced Reimu so far?

>>41058996
>It's mentioned she eats people later on
Where?

>>41092592
Reimu is like that in WaHH to make Kasen Sue look good.

>>41092222
And now you're outright putting words in my mouth to make your "argument" legitimate. Congratulations. There's nothing left for me to reply to. You've killed the debate.

Still think you should just fucking read it, though.

>>41093172
WaHH and Synopsium.

>>41092966
this is a concept that could honestly fuel an entire series
imagine putting constantly freaking out CDS Reimu in SSiB

Was Aya lying about pretending getting beaten by Mizuchi?

>>41100453
If you mean Reimu and not Mizuchi, she definitely got caught off guard and didn't have her fan, made Reimu hit her bag instead and got sent flying, she totally passed out though since not only did Hina had to drag her out of water, she also covered her in sheets like a corpse.

>>41085010
Alright, let's look at Symposium and check out some of the statements regarding Byakuren that depict her as dishonest, hypocritical, and/or a threat to humanity.

>Gensokyo's current form cannot be maintained without the youkai's power(*4). Gensokyo was created by youkai to save themselves, after all. The humans in Gensokyo exist for no further purpose than to preserve the youkai. The humans are being ruled by the youkai.
Almost immediately, Byakuren decides to completely dismiss the plight of humans within Gensokyo, despite all her posturing in UFO about how she wants to "create a world where humans and youkai live as equals". By this point, she's spent years in Gensokyo and has more than enough time to adjust and realize that Youkai are fully in control and humans are treated as little more than livestock at best, but she has no issue with that whatsoever. "Equals", my ass.

>I am just a simple monk in training, but because of a minor disagreement, I was betrayed by humans and sealed away... However, some of my old friends who missed me came to my rescue. And that place just happened to be Gensokyo.
"minor disagreement" and "betrayed" meaning that people discovered that she was secretly aiding the entities who murder, kidnap, and/or eat humans, while presenting herself as a saint who supposedly protected humanity from such threats. At no point does she ever admit any wrongdoing on her own part, or try to understand why the humans acted in such a manner.

>Miko: You built your temple directly above where I was sleeping. Was that also inevitable?
>Byakuren: What might you be talking about?
>Marisa: Oh, yeah. Miko's grave was under the temple, wasn't it?
>Miko: You built a temple for Buddhism, a religion I used for political measures, on top of it, and I heard it was not just any temple, but a youkai temple full of youkai monks. A temple filled with such detestable, evil power...
>Byakuren: How rude. While it may be filled with youkai, those youkai are more sincere than humans. Just as humans can become hermits and celestials, youkai can become gods and Buddhas. My own power is also as vast as it is thanks to youkai.
>Miko: So you're a monk possessed by evil then. A monk who has fallen unthinkably far... or so I'd like to say, but as someone who used Buddhism for political ends, I suppose I do not have the right to do so.
>Byakuren: Well, to be honest, we built the temple there because our treasure-hunting mouse(*9) reported that "there's something incredible buried down there!" and so we surveyed it. When it turned out to be something that seemed more dangerous than what we were expecting, we thought we should do our best to hide it.
>Miko: So I was that dangerous-seeming thing, then?
>Byakuren: While I don't think my intuition was wrong, I regrettably lacked the power.
>Miko: Meaning you couldn't keep me sealed, unfortunately for our nameless so-called monk who thought to keep me shut off forever.
And of course, shortly after talking about how she was "betrayed" and sealed away, she admits to trying to do the same to someone she saw as a threat to her and the other youkai, and her only regret is not being powerful enough to pull it off. Obviously it's okay when she does it.
This also shows that Byakuren is more observant than people give her credit for, since she could immediately recognize the threat that Miko could pose to her and the youkai at the temple, as she has a notable pro-human and anti-youkai standpoint, even if ultimately she's more concerned about her own training than she is concerned about the position of humans within Gensokyo's system. Byakuren could've just admitted that her actions against Miko were unnecessary, but it's obvious that she would've preferred for Miko to remain sealed.

>Byakuren: I believe that's true. In the past, it was said that tengu were monks who had lost their way.
>Miko: So that means you're a tengu, too?
>Byakuren: I haven't lost my way. Rather, I believe you are the one closer to a tengu than I.
>Miko: Really now?
Despite wielding dark powers that clearly stray from her supposed Buddhist beliefs, originally gained in pursuit of eternal life out of a fear of death, Byakuren continuously insists that she's still a morally upright adherent of that faith, never admitting the obvious contradiction or trying to give up on those twisted magics. She even goes as far as to gladly boast about all the power she gained from youkai, which I'm like, 90% sure isn't what Buddhism is about.

>>41100645
>Byakuren: In regards to that, we have this idea called the "Gift of Fearlessness",[3] where we provide a life without fearing others. Our youkai are putting that into practice.
>Marisa: They attacked me quite a bit when I went a while back though.
>Byakuren: Well, since they're still in training, try to be a bit forgiving... Next is "Discipline", which means no killing, no stealing, no adultery, no lying, and no drinking. They vow to uphold these precepts.
>Marisa: Like I said, they were trying to kill me when I went a while back though.
They've been "in training" for over a thousand years. If they haven't been putting their vows into practice after all that time, they're clearly not very invested into it.

>Byakuren: But when everyone imagines ascetic training, they always imagine people meditating while cross-legged or sitting under waterfalls. Those last two kinds of training are the easiest to imagine.
>Marisa: I don't see any of your people doing stuff like that. I get the feeling they show up at a lot of parties. I also remember seeing them eating meat and drinking...
>Byakuren: ...Let's just never mind that.
>Miko: Hmm, I think I've also seen a nyuudou at a few parties. As for the others, I saw an umbrella monster making money by spinning a skull on her umbrella.
>Kanako: And a ship phantom filling the Sanzu River ferry with water.
>Byakuren: Huh? What exactly have they been doing when I'm not looking...?
When confronted with just how blatantly her disciples have been flaunting their vows, Byakuren isn't shown to be upset with them or surprised in the slightest, but just tries to ignore the accusations entirely at first. As the head priestess, one of her main responsibilities is to keep an eye on her disciples and steer them away from the wrong path, but it's readily apparent that she just doesn't care, and leaves them to act as they please.
Byakuren is just incredibly lazy.

>Byakuren: Many of the youkai on the surface are threats toward humans, but there's still a certain amount of trust between them. On the other hand, the underground youkai have been unilaterally loathed or exiled by humans, so it is thought that they have fallen into not trusting neither humans nor youkai.
>Miko: Hmm? Isn't it the duty of Buddhism to rescue people from that mindset?
>Byakuren: Well, that is, I mean...
She doesn't have much of a response when Miko confronts her with the notion that as an adherent to Buddhism, she should be striving to bring the underground and the surface closer together, which is a common reaction for her. She's really bad at dealing with any kind of pushback.

>Byakuren: Because you hate the youkai, the youkai will come to hate you as well. This is the same for humans.
>Marisa: Well, yeah, but how could you like youkai like that...
>Byakuren: If, for example, you carefully approached Ms. Yamame while minding your health, and then asked to listen to her heroic tales and such, I don't think she'd attack you. Of course, once you got home, you mustn't forget to wash your hands and gargle.
>Marisa: Well said, for someone who kicked her out of the temple.
>Byakuren: *A-he-he-hem*
This pretty much speaks for itself. Despite knowing that Yamame is eager to murder and eat humans, to the point where she refused her entry into her temple, she still puts the blame entirely on humans for disliking her.

>Byakuren: Anyway, Ms. Seiga has been going around bothering people. At this rate, it wouldn't be surprising if someone destroyed her. If other people don't, I might do it myself...
Murder is okay if Byakuren does it.

>Marisa: ...Looks like things are as bad as always.
>Reimu: Right? And these were written by the tengu, so they aren't nearly as bad as they should be!
>Byakuren: W-well, maybe...
>Kanako:Mm-hmm.
Byakuren doesn't have any defence when Reimu shows her a bunch of articles involving youkai being shitheads, one of which involved the Myouren Temple selling corpses from the graveyard, which they're supposed to protect, to Rin for her services, after initially rejecting her as a member because of her obvious attempts to steal corpses from there. Evidently, it's okay if Byakuren gets something useful out of it.

Note that at no point did I refer to Byakuren as "evil". I'm only accusing her of being duplicious, lazy, not an ally to humans, and a shit excuse for a Buddhist. She obviously genuinely cares about her followers, despite her disregard for their training, and I'm sure she can be a lovely person when dealing with individuals, but on the whole, Byakuren is a youkai first and foremost, and she will always put them first. She's clearly indifferent to humans, and they shouldn't put their faith in her.

>>41100645
>Byakuren: How rude. While it may be filled with youkai, those youkai are more sincere than humans. Just as humans can become hermits and celestials, youkai can become gods and Buddhas. My own power is also as vast as it is thanks to youkai.
>Miko: So you're a monk possessed by evil then. A monk who has fallen unthinkably far... or so I'd like to say, but as someone who used Buddhism for political ends, I suppose I do not have the right to do so.
Honestly, I find this part most revealing at least when it comes to the difference between Miko and Byakuren. Both are pretty selfish people deep down inside, with Miko not caring that much about what happens to the humans of Gensokyo unless they put their trust in her and make her their leader. But Miko is keenly self aware of her own flaws and methods, while Byakuren is both seemingly genuinely unware of her own flaws as well as overly eager to excuse anything.

Even Kanako ends up looking better compared to her since, while she's immoral and clearly only in it for herself, she's at least open about that.

>>41100720
Yuuka is truly the nicest hag.
She’s loves flowers and that’s it.
Don’t believe Akyuu’s lies. Why would such a “dangerous” youkai visit the human village’s florist regularly?
If I was a human in Gensokyo, I would always visit for Garden of the Sun since Yuuka is a genuine gal.

>>41100730
Yuuka is mostly just very straightforward. Yeah, she'll rip you in two if you damage her flowers. But, well, don't damage her flowers. She's not even a flower supremacists, since she has no problem with botanists existing.

That might not seem like much. But by the standards of Youkai she's a freaking saint.

>>41100653
Byakuren seems to me like someone who tries their hardest to pursue an ideal but are too flawed and bogged down with friendly attachments to truly practice what she preaches.
It’s like a person who wants to better themselves but still fall into the same traps of laziness. She’s aware of her and her friend’s shortcomings, but loves them too much to harshly chastise them, or sees it as too tiresome.
I understand her intuitively, and struggle to put it down, since I know people like this in real life.

>>41100774
Most people like that in real life don't support a place like Gensokyo build on human suffering and mass murder.

Well, I guess they kind of do. But they usually don't say the quite part out loud.

>>41100799
>mass murder
Even though some youkai say they eat humans, I find it to be trash talk or tongue-in-cheek.
I believe the vamps are the only ones stated to eat humans from the outside.
The members of the “secret human society” or whatever it was were probably killed, if ZUN even remembers them.

>>41100645
>>41100653
Wrong.

>>41099655

Her body count is at several hundreds at this point.

Every single bullet in this image is actually a shirikodama (a human soul she's taken.)

>>41101205
Im pretty sure her danmaku isn't real shirikodamas just symbolises them.

>>41101236

Ayas comment on the spellcard:

"The shirikodama, with its eye-watering stench, isn't that bad
if it's dried out. Even so...how many humans were sacrificed to
create this many shirikodama? This is something of endless interest."

Hatates comment on the spellcard:

"Eek, it's shirikodama~ These are way stinky~
I wonder if she's actually a gourmet. I mean, she eats delicacies like these.
But I think meat is totally better than that offal kinda stuff."

It's the real deal, dude.

>>41101278
Aren't those supposed to be like food for Kappas?
Its probably same deal as Marisa danmaku being edible and sweet.

>>41100855
I really doubt the like of Mystia, Yukari, or Chen are kidding. And even if the actual characters don't eat humans, which I disagree with, it's made perfectly clear that outsiders have a VERY low life expectancy.

>>41101501
Do we know how many humans get gapped into gensokyo?

>>41101542
The only canonical source we have is that their rate of encounter is listed as "low" in PMISS. Which doesn't mean a whole lot considering that could just be the few people that make it to safety.

It's certainly enough to qualify for mass murder though.

>>41101310
>Marisa danmaku being edible and sweet
What's this about?

>>41101980
(DON'T) read SSiB

>>41101995
Haha nice. Thank you.

>>41101580
Outsiders could be a potential threat to Gensokyo for all we know, as it's interesting enough to note that Akyuu has ranked their threat level in PMiSS as "unknown"
Who knows, could guns and nukes kill youkai and gods? Probably

>>41100645
>>41100653
What the hell. I hate Byakuren now. She's closer to a present day politician than a upright monk.

>>41102037
Funny thing, while Byakuren is almost entirely dismissive of her disciples' drinking, meat-eating, and shinigami-drowning, she does immediately promise to harshly punish Kyouko, the newest and thus least experienced initiate, for being a minor nuisance by forming a noisy band with Mystia.

>>41102079
Nepotism!

>>41102079
She cares more about bad optics than dead humans.

>>41102009
Nah, they will just regenerate
Remember, they're primarily spiritual creatures rather than physical ones, you'll need to attack them with spiritual weapons to actually damage them, not with mundane bullets or bombs

>>At this rate, it wouldn't be surprising if someone destroyed her. If other people don't, I might do it myself...
>Murder is okay if Byakuren does it.
This guy seriously thinks Byakuren was going to fucking murder Seiga.
This is the kind of person you're discussing with.

>>41102179
Go tell that to the crazy anti-gensokyo guy who wrote an entire elaborate text about muh outside world stomping gensokyo

Why does Miko even still come out and mingle these days?

>>41102179
They are ranked Unknown as they vary in power level depending on the human.

It is stated in Yukari Yakumo's Perfect Cherry Blossom profile that outsiders generally end up in Gensokyo thanks to fluctuations in the border caused by her. Since the frequency of encountering them is considered to be "low", it might mean that outsiders don't end up in Gensokyo very often. The majority of outsiders that end up in Gensokyo seem to have little knowledge of technology. Because of this, any technology they bring into Gensokyo, such as mobile phones, can not be reproduced. However, outsiders still bring knowledge into Gensokyo that's otherwise unattainable, and thus are valued for that.

Yukari chooses which humans can enter Gensokyo based on their level of power and intelligence.
"They immediately put a tool called a 'mobile phone' to their ears, and after that are at a loss as of what to do next."
— Hieda no Akyuu

Outsiders are not protected by the contract that came as a result of the Vampire Incident. In fact, the unbreakable devil's contract specifically stipulates that the vampires get outsiders to feed on in exchange for not attacking Gensokyo's native residents.
Yukari mentions to herself that "youkai may attack humans but do not eat them recklessly.

So, Yukari gets low spirit level humans with little knowledge to enter Gensokyo for eating.
She actively avoids anyone smart enough to recreate technology, those who could unite the human village and those who have a high spiritual power level. As well as only taking those nobody will notice is gone or whose disappearance won't cause a stir.

It would be stupid of her as well as suicidal to try and take someone like a Priest/Monk, a Charismatic leader or an Inventor/Scientist.

Not to mention the only people she takes are Japanese since Gensokyo is in Japan.
I'm sure a lot of those that go to Aokigahara to commit suicide are sometimes taken by Yukari

>>41102429
I thought the "unknown" threat level part was because there could be armed outsiders who could potentially attack youkai, but that's about it, as long as the sages protect the barrier, keep villagers fearful and ignorant, and choose carefully which outsiders to abduct, they don't have anything to worry about, it's a functional youkai paradise with a functional human oppression system

In other words, a world where humanity is oppressed by supernatural forces

>>41102179
I’m pretty sure fire and shit kills them in the original legends
Of course ZUNs canon is a bit different

>>41102037
She’s just a fleshed our person with faults. Even though she’s a “magician” youkai now, she was human before. And she still exhibiting human traits
Nothing to hate there

>>41102183
Anon, we are on /jp/.
You should know autists have a hard time with subtle social cues.

>>41102037
She's a great character but an awful person. There's nothing wrong with appreciating it for the former. Every fictional world needs its massive arsehole. That way the truly radiant can shine even brighter.

>>41102183
The hell are you talking about? Seiga is actively being hunted - with intent to kill - by several parties already. Byakuren throwing in with the lot wouldn't be at all remarkable.

>>41102534
I like this artist after catching their stream.

>>41102179
You're thinking of fairies. Yeah, youkai do need human belief, but why would they be immune to physical weapons altogether? They need to do stuff like eat and drink, so it's not like they're immortals with just a spiritual weakness.

>>41102037
Like another person said, she's a fascinating character but really flawed person. The flaws shine brighter because of the values she preaches but herself ignores. I hope she does do better in future works, Eiki needs to have a talk with her.

>>41100645
>>41100653
I just assumed you think Byakuren is evil because you stretched Marisa's vague line as initial example, but I also never said she's a perfect saint, she indeed can be lazy and a bit of hypocritical. Even then I'd still disagree about a lot of your points, mainly because it exaggerate human "suffering" in Gensokyo and leaning a bit too much on pro-human/anti-youkai in a series mainly about mythological beings, which then snowballed into biased prosecution on everything she does.

>Byakuren decides to completely dismiss the plight of humans within Gensokyo
Humans aren't as suffered as you make it sound and this is never an issue in most Touhou narrative. Being livestock doesn't mean they occasionally brought to a platter. The youkai goes all the way to make rules to not harm them on human village and Yukari has to gap in hobos from outside world to feed the particularly feral ones, it's in fact the "worst" they can get, aside from wandering into obviously youkai ghetto outside the village everyone would've warned you about. Even Miko, who's supposed to be pro-human with keen intellect, only noticed and concerned about the humans being leaderless and not on top of hierarchy, then came to accept the current Gensokyo's status anyway and "live a carefree life".
Now that there's nothing gravely concerning about humans Byakuren still opt to train the youkai to reach equality because, while she DID state somewhere that youkai is better well-off in Gensokyo, they are still separated and most of the flaws come from youkai, from their unruly but also restricted behaviour to their fragile existence since they can disappear from humans just forgetting them, though admittedly it's far from being realized.

>meaning that people discovered that she was secretly aiding the entities who murder, kidnap, and/or eat humans
This is also the era where youkai are indiscriminately hunted down. The same print work also shows that not all youkai are dangerous, like monk tengus and likely many more instances like you've seen in Gensokyo yet they were gradually disappearing. The youkai Byakuren took are also pacified (even this mostly refer to Murasa, who's like the only formerly "murderous" youkai). So it's easy to assume the humans at that time were trying to assert dominance by prosecuting all youkai and make it taboo.

>This also shows that Byakuren is more observant than people give her credit for.
I don't see why just realizing this make her some kind of manipulative and all-is-planned person. You can be a klutz while still sensitive about something that might threaten you, even more so if it's your life goal. Besides, do you have any implication that it's not pure intuition for the sake of plot and that she *certainly* know it's a pro-human leader sealed underneath at first glance?

>Despite wielding dark powers that clearly stray from her supposed Buddhist beliefs
Speaking about actual buddhism, how actually true is this? and what dark powers are we talking about?
Other than extending her lifespan (which she acquired back before she truly care), so far it's just strengthening her body and sorcery used in danmaku. Nothing really sinister about them so far to somehow stop her to practice/teaching buddhism, which is just about understanding and preservation rather than to be christian-like "all holy". In actual buddhist lore, many demons turned into bodhisattva after just being taught buddhism.

>They've been "in training" for over a thousand years.
To be honest they also spent most of those thousand years sealed underground, and who knows how long they've been following Byakuren before the start of the series and we can only assume. This also explain why Shou, the only one not sealed, is the most preserved of them, aside from being a drinker.

>as an adherent to Buddhism, she should be striving to bring the underground and the surface closer together
If she could barely reform the regular youkai from drinking, how is she supposed to change hostile ruffians underground? This actually makes clear that Byakuren only take someone who want peace and interested in buddhism, rather than forcing every single youkai to follow her teaching, including dangerous youkai who certainly don't want it. Reaching equality doesn't mean or done through pacifying every single being, as it's impossible to do.

>she still puts the blame entirely on humans for disliking her.
She also said "same for humans". She's making comparison, not putting one above another.

>Murder is okay if Byakuren does it.
Well Seiga is clearly evil, and Byakuren does make a point somewhere that she also exterminate bad youkai, so I guess she's never against killing entirely.

>involved the Myouren Temple selling corpses from the graveyard, which they're supposed to protect, to Rin for her services, after initially rejecting her as a member
Wow big deal. They were trying to deal with Yoshika anyway, not just voluntarily selling corpses for money.

>>41103505
All in all you seems to make a big deal out of the youkai misdeeds and Byakuren not fully acting like real buddhist. It's true that Byakuren can be lazy, selfish and ignorant and her disciples seems like fake buddhist, but it doesn't make it somehow mandatory to condemn them. To me this entire utter disdain for Byakuren and her disciples seems come mostly from thinking that humans "suffer" under youkai or might be biased thinking that they should be in control instead, despite the narrative mostly present humans and youkai managed to build peace between them albeit segregated and not all youkai are horrible man-eaters, then somehow prosecute Byakuren for not raising humans above its current not-so-improvished status, then doubling down on her and her followers for not being complete saint to make it seems like they are dangerous individuals or for them not 100% following buddhist code and being fully devout monks as if it's mandatory for the narrative, and honestly it might instead make them boring characters and unfit for the whimsical nature of the series, and none of Touhou characters are perfect representation of what they are supposed to be anyway. Furthermore, none of them are truly threatening or outright murderous to be truly concerning, and I don't think Byakuren ever present herself as perfect embodiment of buddhism everyone should strive for, and despite all her flaws , which isn't as bad or harmful as you make it, doesn't necessarily mean she won't show compassion to humans or try to reach enlightenment or equality, at least just for the sake of it.

Though, I admit the thing that bothered me the most is you keep using the "read the print works" buzzword as if doing so automatically make people agree with you, which I'm not, and only non-reader think otherwise. Reading SoPM I couldn't grasp the nuance that Byakuren is despicable or malicious BECAUSE, this is something I need to emphasize more, *the narrative doesn't present it that way*, nor that humans are in danger to assume Byakuren is totally ignorant of humans. In fact Kanako tried to convince otherwise and Miko accepted it. Arguably none of these points are even stressed in any other works either to support them.
I was busy imagining the evolution of youkai, some buddhist lore tidbits, energy circulation in Gensokyo, etc because that's what the print work is mainly about, while all the evidence of the leaders' misdeeds are presented in light-hearted manner. All this Byakuren being awful is just your personal bias that only you seems mad about, which not everyone agrees and not necessarily because they don't read the print works or think Byakuren is flawless figure, more like because she not as horrible in comparison as most other characters in the series. Worse you seems trying to push your sentiment as canon. On the contrary, trying to flip someone mostly presented in the narrative as absent-minded, self-absorbed naive nun into seemingly manipulative sociopath looks like pushing headcanon to me.

To add more, this bias is likely what made you believe Marisa's line "I was gonna get killed tho" to somehow refer to nonexistent instance of Myouren disciples trying to murder her, from all the nuances that Byakuren is a terrible sociopath you just made up despite the narrative doesn't explicitly support or focus on that, instead of referring to UFO incident which actually exist and more plausible. You were probably already too deep-down to shit on Byakuren with your own narrative to see past that, it's painful to look at.
Lastly which I forgot to add, to sums it up, Byakuren being rather selfish by buddhist standard doesn't mean she's utterly uncompassionate for humans, nor that youkai and Gensokyo's current system are so bad that humans who upheld them are inherently ignorant or shouldn't be relied on, as arguably all other human characters who are aware of it doesn't try to change them nor they are automatically cannot help humans.

>>41103505
>This actually makes clear that Byakuren only take someone who want peace and interested in buddhism, rather than forcing every single youkai to follow her teaching, including dangerous youkai who certainly don't want it.
She converted Koishi to Buhddism because she does not have any thoughts in her head. Can you really say Koishi actually wanted to become a Buddhist if she doesn't think and sealed away her consciousness? Koishi only became a Buddhist at Byakuren Hijiri's request.

>>41104799
Koishi is only described as being laywoman instead of actual disciple or nun, and I figure Byakuren just invited Koishi to the temple and she just whimsically came along, then only visiting if she feel like it

>>41103505
Not everyone who disagrees with you is the same person.
You might be easily recognizable due to your inadequate grasp on the English language, but this is still supposed to be an anonymous message board where people will randomly jump in and out of conversations.

>>41103523
Guy who has been telling you to read the print works here. I never even said Byakuren was evil. You've been conflating several different responders and their points. No wonder you're having such trouble composing an argument.

Perhaps none of this would have been a problem if you'd just read the print works.

>>41106440
I've stopped using Byakuren being evil as point of problem either, but I still pointed out that her issues are being exaggerated and I know this generally comes from anyone who despise her, and while it's fine as personal opinion, seems like it's been pushed as the only objective and "canon" opinion. Just speaking for anyone who does it.

>Perhaps none of this would have been a problem if you'd just read the print works.
I know you're just trying to come off as trolling at this point, or always been, but who knows if at one point you or someone else actually mean it or believe it with "if you don't think Byakuren as shit person you don't read the print works". Might as well point it out while I'm in the mood for long, elaborate ESL post, which mind you doesn't come often.

>>41105861
I know. While it looks like I'm arguing with one person I do speak generally for anyone who has similiar sentiment, and only in case someone pushing it as the only legitimate viewpoint.
After all Byakuren being shit is admittedly a pretty prevalent opinion, perhaps vocal, and they often have the same reasoning "she doesn't support humans, doesn't act like buddhist, hypocrite, lazy, bla bla bla.."
But you also got people who approach it better.
>>41100774
>>41102516
>>41103029

>>41107305
>pointed out that her issues are being exaggerated
Not in this thread they aren't. Nor have I exaggerated them. She does barefacedly ignore and gloss over problems as they are brought to her attention during the Symposium, and there is no reason to doubt Marisa when she said - more than once - that she had been attacked at the temple with potentially lethal intent.

There is no exaggeration. This is just the kind of person Byakuren is, and the only way you could have gotten a different impression is if you hadn't played UFO or read the Symposium. You've got the relevant passages laid out in this very thread. On a silver platter. You have no further argument.

>I know you're just trying to come off as trolling at this point
And you're still coming off as desperately trying not to read the canon information being cited. Why? It's been said several times: her being an awful person doesn't mean she's a bad character or anything to the effect. Just accept it and move on. It shouldn't prevent you from enjoying fanworks or maintaining your own headcanon. Don't be simple.

>>41103505
>practice/teaching buddhism, which is just about understanding and preservation
Buhddism is not about preservation and understanding.
Enlightenment (or, the state of being fully awake) is defined as having a completely empty head, your mind being an endless void.
Essentially nothingness

A person who has attained the goal Nibbana is thus indescribable because they have abandoned all things by which they could be described". The Suttas themselves describe the liberated mind as 'untraceable' or as 'consciousness without feature', making no distinction between the mind of a liberated being that is alive and the mind of one that is no longer alive.
Enlightenment is a destructive process. It
has nothing to do with becoming better, preservation or being happier. Enlightenment is the
crumbling away of untruth. It's seeing
through the facade of pretence. It's the
complete eradication of everything we
imagined to be true.
The term anattā or anātman refers to the doctrine of "non-self", that there is no unchanging, permanent self, soul or essence in living beings.
Buddhism, from its earliest days, has denied the existence of the "self, soul" in its core philosophical and ontological texts. In its soteriological themes, Buddhism has defined nirvana as that blissful state when a person, amongst other things, realizes that he or she has no self, no soul.
It's when you realize you don't exist and that you(self) and reality are just an illusion.

Achieving the state Enlightenment causes the individual to quite literally lose any sense of self, it's hard to even call someone who has become Enlightened an actual individual, and considering the fact that Byakuren thinks Koishi of all people is close to this state makes me question Byakuren's understanding of Buddhism.

The Yamabiko, a type of youkai that was very populous, were driven to a point of almost extinction "recently", simply because they were unable to fulfill their roles due to the humans of Gensokyo gaining more knowledge, so im pretty sure most of the Youkai in the Myouren Temple wouldn't take too long to disappear before being able to become enlightened.

>>41082654
Who is that and why do they smell of mothballs

>>41103523
If you take into account, the Hindu Interpretation of Buddhism than Byakuren is doing a great service to humanity.
In Hinduism, Vishu has multiple avatars and in the Bhāgavata Purāṇa when the Kali Age has begun, in order to delude the enemies of the gods, Visnu was born as the Buddha.
In the Bhagavata and Vishnu Puranas, the main purpose of this incarnation was to destroy certain demons who had managed to learn Vedic rites and aceticism. For this purpose, Vishnu descended as the Buddha and taught a heresy to the demons so that they would abandon the Vedas and asceticism and lose their power, allowing them to be destroyed. According to the Vishnu Purana, these demons also taught this heresy to others who became Buddhists and abandoned the true Dharma. This allowed the gods to kill them.

>>41103505
>Humans aren't as suffered as you make it sound
Yeah, they are. Even outside of the outsiders that are literally murdered, they are constantly shown as being terrified and drunk. Desperate to learn anything about the outside world because they can tell it's a far happier and more worthwhile life. There are zero examples of humans actually being okay with their lot and countless examples of them not being happy. They want to leave Gensokyo, but are being kept against their will to live as cattle and it's clearly harming them.

>This is also the era where youkai are indiscriminately hunted down.
It's not. A thousand years ago wasn't a particularly bad time to be a Youkai.

>If she could barely reform the regular youkai from drinking, how is she supposed to change hostile ruffians underground?
She could start by actually holding them accountable instead of constantly excusing her actions.

>>41103523
>To me this entire utter disdain for Byakuren and her disciples seems come mostly from thinking that humans "suffer" under youkai or might be biased thinking that they should be in control instead
How about trying to actually reach a understanding and reach equality instead of throwing them all under the bus by maintaining the horrible living standard of Gensokyo?

>none of them are truly threatening or outright murderous to be truly concerning,
Murasa is outright mentioned to regularly drown people. Nazrin's rats eat people if given the chance. Nue is all kinds of fucked up and immoral. And those are just the actual characters.

>In fact Kanako tried to convince otherwise and Miko accepted it. Arguably none of these points are even stressed in any other works either to support them.
Not really. Kanako's argument is pretty monstrous.

>while all the evidence of the leaders' misdeeds are presented in light-hearted manner.
Yeah, because Touhou is mostly comedic in tone. Most of the cast are still awful people that deserve to die. The black comedy is part of the joke, but it's also why Touhou never tries to make us care about gensokyo as a place and there's a underlying understanding that it's existence is bad. At least by the time of Symposium.

>>41107535
She's flawed, but not likeably so. Mostly because she's supporting literal evil monsters. Like so much of Touhou it works in a black comedy kind of sense. But if you try to be serious about her actions, it's hard not to view her as inexcusable. Actual lives are at stake here.

>>41109989
You forgot the entire point of Gensokyo mate
This is the opposite of the Outside World, fantasy exist and mundanity is repulsed, humans are not dominant, the supernatural rule over the realm, it's a paradise *for youkai*, humans are just a tool used for one's convenience, as food or fearstock
When you realize this, the Fortune Teller's goal become completely understandable as he wanted to cast aside his humanity and enjoy the paradise as a youkai, yet he was killed by the whore since it's forbidden for villagers to transform

You could turn yourself into a youkai without repercussions if you're an outsider though, that'd be a nice shot

>>41110060
>You forgot the entire point of Gensokyo mate
I understand the goal perfectly well. My argument is that it's pure evil and anybody that thinks otherwise is a bad person. Which includes Byakuren.

>You forgot the entire point of Gensokyo mate
I imagine that ends the moment you decide to settle down in the human village.

>>41108338
Still not really convinced, but I'm just gonna say what truly should've been said for this general argument: we clearly have different view on what comes down as awful or not. If I wasn't clear by exaggeration I mean not on what she does, but the reaction and judgement for them. For example, never have I dismissed the fact that she acted ignorant of her disciples' misdeeds, when informed of Marisa being attacked and when they were caught partying, I just simply don't find it as terrible as you do, nor the narrative or the other characters, except maybe Miko. No one truly jumped on her for being "shitty" nun and even Marisa excused the youkai's behaviour, why should I get mad?
My whole point, which I've posted before, is basically admitting all her faults and wrongdoings but at the same time doesn't judge her harshly for them nor instantly coming with awful conclusion, on the grounds I've also elaborated upon.
If you personally think her as awful then fine, it's valid. Just don't push it as the only legitimate sentiment.

>And you're still coming off as desperately trying not to read the canon information being cited.
Sheesh, I get it. You're eager to point out this particular information and calling anybody secondary for ignoring it, despite of everything I said on the contrary. No wonder you've been repeating the same argument and lines regardless.

>>41110104
>we clearly have different view on what comes down as awful or not
Do you think deliberately keeping entire groups of people in mass poverty is good? Are you in favor of tyrannical murderous dictators ruled over by people that regularly abduct children? Is murder okay?

>and even Marisa excused the youkai's behaviour, why should I get mad?
She excused it because it's Marisa and she's strong enough to live to tell the tale. You also don't need to be mad to find her behavior utterly abhorrent morally. Which is still objectively is unless, again, you think murder is good.

>>41110060
>You could turn yourself into a youkai without repercussions if you're an outsider though, that'd be a nice shot
So basically betraying humanity to join the side of those parasites that oppress and attack for their personal benefit
I mean, it's vile for sure, but if you want a way to survive in Gensokyo without being a slave-villager... can't argue with that

>>41110154
I mean, if you are a outsider the best thing you could do would just be to leave. Arguably try and plot behind the scenes if you want to do more. I'm sure the CIA would love to know about Gensokyo.

>>41110104
>we clearly have different view on what comes down as awful or not
Sure. Because wilful ignorance, refusal to address one's problems, negligence of one's wards, open hypocrisy and self-aggrandisement are such morally ambiguous actions.
>"shitty"
You seem really hung up on that word. Maybe you ought to realise it was merely short-hand for her being PLAINLY NOT A GOOD PERSON rather than treating it as a personal insult toward your choice of characters to enjoy. Christ. I didn't even call her "shitty" once and I'm getting tired of you bringing up myself.

>>41110189
>Sure. Because wilful ignorance, refusal to address one's problems, negligence of one's wards, open hypocrisy and self-aggrandisement are such morally ambiguous actions.
It's morally ambiguous because some Youkai are decent people and there the only choices are total genocide or giving them a license to commit mass murder and threat innocent people like livestock.

>>41110159
I doubt the gap hag let outsiders leave so easily once they enter, they're here for a reason (mainly food, but they could also be here to add numbers in the village since some choose to stay)
But all in all, you don't really change the status quo, which is quite disappointing, the most saintly action you could do once there is to put a bullet on the shrine maiden's head, you'll forever be remembered for your effort to liberate the villagers from this stupid ass whore

>>41110219
We were talking about Byakuren, though. Nice attempt at deflection, however.

>>41110230
>I doubt the gap hag let outsiders leave so easily once they enter,
While I would normally agree, going by PMISS they can leave Gensokyo. Granted, we have seen exactly zero examples or mentions of that happening.

>the most saintly action you could do once there is to put a bullet on the shrine maiden's head, you'll forever be remembered for your effort to liberate the villagers from this stupid ass whore
Correct. Especially since you might actually be able to end their bloodline, or at least one part of it.

>>41110237
I know. My point is that most people seem to find her actions excusable because she means well in keeping literal monsters around.

I always found it interesting how passionate some people are about "dark" aspects of touhou given that 99% of fanbase completely ignores that aspect and it could as well not exist.

>>41110279
99% of the Touhou fanbase is just the same shitty memes that have no bearing on canon. If you want to actually talk about Touhou, not the made up fan version of Touhou, then the dark elements are going to be front and center since it's either that or talk about the black comedy that makes up most Touhou games.

>>41110279
The fanbase consists mainly of normies that only want their sugar-coated waifus and colorful danmaku along with the very happy gensokyo while blissfully ignoring what the fuck is going on behind the scenes

It's blissful ignorance because touhou was, at its core and lore, never supposed to be a lighthearted series, the cute games are the tip of the iceberg

>>41110332
Don't forget the porn. Touhou fans love shipping despite the fact that zero characters have shown any romantic interest in each other in any works.

>>41110307
>>41110332
This
Cutesokyofags btfo, you don't have any counter-argument for this

>>41110332
But the thing is that "real" lore is extremely grimdork. Its just funny that in game about girls in funny hats having non-lethal duels where majority of dialog is just excuse for stage 1-4 bosses to attack you, ZUN tries to put so much behind the scenes lore.
And its even funnier how majority of fanbase outright "nope"s it. And i don't mean recent fumo-posters etc. It was the case for as long as i remember and i've been into touhou for well over decade.

>>41110383
>It was the case for as long as i remember and i've been into touhou for well over decade.
Same. Outside of a few weird circles in the western fanbase, mostly fanfic writers, it's pretty rare to get people actually embracing canon Gensokyo.

>>41110383
The "cute girls" thing is also among the things in the tip of the iceberg
It's been implied, and even said by Byakuren herself somewhere, that youkai aren't actually cute girls, it's just a shapeshifting convenience to more easily interact with villagers and "dupe" foolish outsiders like you so to speak

>>41110410
Lmao that flandre pic
Youkai get their eyes and pupils very dilated when you piss them off or surprise them, random ass headcanon

>>41068595
>what's going to happen to Mizuchi at the end?
This is touhou. nothing will happen. they'll be drinking tea together and partying by the end of the manga.

>>41110189
Yeah? I'm just following the narrative. It doesn't seem to be that much of a big deal. Consider that it's portrayed as humor and it's not like they are debating about each other's flaws and teachings, in which case yeah, it'll be a shitty thing to do.

>You seem really hung up on that word
I dunno anon, maybe I could say the same to you, it's not like I use those words to jab on you, at least not anymore. I just use it to emphasize as I can't think of better word and I'm not really trying to be dickish.

>>41110518
>It doesn't seem to be that much of a big deal
Because Touhou is filled with black comedy and that's the joke.

>Consider that it's portrayed as humor and it's not like they are debating about each other's flaws and teachings, in which case yeah, it'll be a shitty thing to do.
They basically are though. They don't take it too seriously, but they are debating.

>>41108889
>The term anattā or anātman refers to the doctrine of "non-self", that there is no unchanging, permanent self, soul or essence in living beings.
Buddhism, from its earliest days, has denied the existence of the "self, soul" in its core philosophical and ontological texts. In its soteriological themes, Buddhism has defined nirvana as that blissful state when a person, amongst other things, realizes that he or she has no self, no soul.
It's when you realize you don't exist and that you(self) and reality are just an illusion.
It’s nice to see other people understand this as well. It was common thought in times past that anattā meant “destruction of the self” but instead it is like what you said, a rejection.

>>41108889
>Essentially nothingness
I do want to correct you here. It’s not a negation of existence like “nothingness” but an inherent emptiness of existence because all things arise without differentiation. The term is “sunyata”.
“Nothingness” is nihilistic while emptiness is not.

>>41111389
The Tripiṭaka, originally written in Pali, refers to nihilism as natthikavāda and the nihilist view as micchādiṭṭhi. Various sutras within it describe a multiplicity of views held by different sects of ascetics while the Buddha was alive, some of which were viewed by him to be morally nihilistic.

Nirvana, a place of nothingness…nonpossession and…non-attachment…which is the total end of death and decay. In English nothingness can sound like nihilism. However, the word could be emphasized in a different way, so that it becomes no-thingness, indicating that nirvana is not a thing you can find, but rather a state where you experience the reality of non-grasping.

Critics of Buhdda called him a nihilist who teaches the annihilation and extermination of an existing being. The Buddha's response was that he only teaches the cessation of suffering. When an individual has given up craving and the conceit of 'I am' their mind is liberated, they no longer come into any state of 'being' and are no longer born again.

If a fire were to go out and someone were to ask you whether the fire went north, south, east or west, how would you reply?A extinguished fire can only be classified as 'out'. And that is what the Buhdda wants for the "self" and the "soul" in order to end suffering.

>>41111685
Karma is a central part of Hindu and Buddhist teachings. Karma is a word meaning action or activity and often implies its subsequent results also called karma-phala, "the fruits of action". Karma theory is commonly applied to the ethical realm of cause and effect in both Buddhism and Hinduism. In Buddhism and in Hinduism, a person's words, thoughts and actions form the basis for good and bad karma.
Both Buddhism and Hinduism accept that living beings are constantly cycling through different bodies and realms of existence, in a repetitive process called saṃsāra, literally "the wandering".
Through its history, Buddhism borrowed and integrated various Hindu deities or the qualities of Hindu deities into their tradition. Mahayana Buddhist texts like the Kāraṇḍavyūhasūtra consider Hindu deities such as Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma and Saraswati as being bodhisattvas as well as emanations of Avalokiteshvara. Similarly, the popular Nīlakaṇṭha Dhāraṇī is a Mahayana dhāraṇī said to have been recited by Avalokiteshvara which praises the names of Harihara a composite of Shiva and Vishnu.
Other Hindu deities adopted into Buddhism include Hayagrīva and Ganesh. During the tantric age, the Buddhist Vajrayana tradition adopted fierce tantric deities like Mahakala and Bhairava.
Theravada Buddhism also adopted some Hindu deities, the most important of which is Upulvan (Vishnu), who is seen as a guardian of Sri Lanka and as a bodhisattva
All of this is to bring up my next post. Hinduism is one of Buddhism biggest critics.

>>41111841
Hindus like Kumarila Bhatta and Shankaracharya refuted all the arguments of Buddhists and vanquished it from India, Buddhists lost the debate in India which is why it's a Hindu country. Also, Buddhism is counter-traditional, sophistic, nihilistic, soul-denying and so on.

They deal with Nirvāṇa as they deal with every other dogma, with heaven and hell: they deny its objective reality, placing it altogether in the abstract. They dissolve every proposition into a thesis and its anti-thesis and deny both. Thus they say Nirvāṇa is no annihilation, but they also deny its positive objective reality.
According to them the soul enjoys in Nirvāṇa neither existence nor non-existence, it is neither eternal nor non-eternal, neither annihilated nor non-annihilated. Nirvāṇa is to them a state of which nothing can be said, to which no attributes can be given; it is altogether an abstract, devoid alike of all positive and negative qualities.
What shall we say of such empty useless speculations, such sickly, dead words, whose fruitless sophistry offers to that natural yearning of the human heart after an eternal rest nothing better than a philosophical myth? It is but natural that a religion which started with moral and intellectual bankruptcy should end in moral and intellectual suicide.

Buddhists have never answered Adi Shankara arguments.

the Buddhist historian Taranatha himself admits that Kumarila Bhatta defeated a bunch of Buddhists in debates

Kumārila is also credited with the logical formulation of the Mimamsic belief that the Vedas are unauthored (apauruṣeyā). In particular, his defence against medieval Buddhist positions on Vedic rituals is noteworthy. This contributed to the decline of Buddhism in India, because his lifetime coincides with the period in which Buddhism began to decline. Indeed, his dialectical success against Buddhists is confirmed by Buddhist historian Taranatha, who reports that Kumārila defeated disciples of Buddhapālita, Bhāviveka, Dharmadasa, Dignāga and others.

The Buddhist Suttas are dialogues. So is the Bhagvat Gita

too long
didn't read lol

>>41110060
>>41110103
>>41110159
>>41110230
>>41110251
>>41110279
>>41110332
>>41110359
>>41110383
GrimSEXkyo
Youkai keep outsider pets as husbands and violate them constantly

this byakuren argument might be even more retarded than the aya wings argument

>>41111685
>>41111841
>>41111904
Thanks for the write up, anon. I still have a lot to learn.

>>41112138
>aya wings argument
What argument? Aya has wings, period. Anyone who still says she doesn't is blind or trolling by pretending to be retarded.

>>41112138
In the end it's just boiled down to moral argument "what she does is bad/not bad" which should be kept to themselves
I like youkai being assholes so it's never an issue to me

>>41112317
Youkai have blue-and-orange morals, outwardly it is evil or alien to humans but in truth their perspective of reality is simply different than ours, humans tend to generalize things and just label the youkai as wicked in a black-and-white dichotomy

>>41110360
Most pornfags and shippers don't know anything about this series. They just like the cute girls and consume mindlessly.

This entire argument could've been avoided if we just believe that youkai did nothing wrong.

>>41112612
Sorry, the only thing I'm willing to agree on is that youkai do everything wrong.
Frankly, the only Touhou I'm actually willing to trust is Eiki. She actually has other people's best interests in mind, and acts from a place of compassion, rather than self-interest.

>>41110332
>It's blissful ignorance because touhou was, at its core and lore, never supposed to be a lighthearted series, the cute games are the tip of the iceberg
Then why are the games just gijinkas of youkai as cute lolis with no real consequences

It's pointless to argue with cutesokyofags, those crooks only want the cutesy girls and nothing more, there is no intelligence involved in their discussions whatsoever, and of course, no concrete arguments besides "BUT MUH FLASHY DANMAKU AND GORGEOUS WAIFU"

>>41110383
>And its even funnier how majority of fanbase outright "nope"s it. And i don't mean recent fumo-posters etc. It was the case for as long as i remember and i've been into touhou for well over decade.
Didn't zun at one point say that Gensokyo is best decided by (You)? I find these kind of arguments to be so pointless because they could be contradicted in the very next entry be it in the next game or print work. Can't we all just take it easy and like the kind of Gensokyo we want, any end of the spectrum?

>>41112713
>those crooks only want the cutesy girls and nothing more
Yes. And?

>>41112653
She's also the one who told Yuuka to scare more people.
While she definitely doesn't act out of personal interest, I don't think she necessarily does things for human's best interest.

>>41112723
So you only solidify and prove my point then
You have nothing to do and barge in actual lore discussions since all you do is just act "uhmmm wait ackthually youkai are cute and incidents get resolved happily guys there's nothing wrong guys"

Stay contained in your waifu threads

>>41112750
But youkai are cute.

grimsokyofags coming out of the woodwork believing their interpretation isn't as bad as cutesokyo

>>41112771
You are such easy prey, I can't wait for yukari to abduct you, lets see how cute once inside
Digging your own grave as they say

>>41112750
>and incidents get resolved happily
Oh please, there are never any violent ends to a Touhou incident. All the grim stuff is behind the scenes, and the ending of this manga will prove it. Why weren't Remilia/Joon/Yachie/place whoever you want here ever killed?

>>41112750
just ignore them, they can only troll at best and never provide evidence for their beliefs

>>41112779
Cool!

>>41112788
>never provide evidence for their beliefs
Um, use your eyeballs. These youkai are cute

It's pointless to argue with grimsokyofags, those crooks only want the 2edgy4me fanservice and nothing more, there is no intelligence involved in their discussions whatsoever, and of course, no concrete arguments besides "BUT MUH TONALLY CONFLATING PRINT WORKS AND COOL BLOOD AND GUTS"

>>41112817
>PRINT WORKS
>He doesn't realize those print works are canon and written by zun
>While none of the cute fanon is real
This is the fate of every cutesokyofag, life in eternal denial knowing outsiders get slaughtered by youkai
Bingo grimchads

>>41112835
Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth

>>41112854
Perfect memento in strict sense
Oh wait what are those threat levels? Surely there's nothing dangerous about youkai guys... right guys? Oh what that about outsiders getting eaten at sight? This gotta be a joke! Akyuu is completely biased and insane, immah ignore all of that and just embrace cutesokyo just because!

>>41112885
>immah ignore all of that and just embrace cutesokyo just because!
You should try that out, you'll be happier

>>41112885
You described it perfectly, those morons are off the charts of canon information

>>41112743
>>41112653
Eiki doesn't serve humanity or its best interest. She is purely objective, advising the best course of action for each individual according to this individual's nature.

She is completely, absolutely impartial. No matter who or what you are.

>>41112911
I prefer being on the youkai side than groveling alongside human filth desu
Yeah, call me a traitor or what, but i've seen enough of humanity to know that it is a pathetic race full of hubris, fuck humans

Miko and Byakuren.

Sitting in a tree.

>>41113174

tied up marisa is really, really erotic

>>41112676
Because they are black comedies.

>>41112472
Even if their morality could be called blue and orange, rather than just straight up sociopathy, a lot of them self identify as villains.