/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Last time: ERIKA ;_;

By the way guys, it's not Shkanontrice, it should be Shkantricenzo. If you remember, there's the possibility that the name "Kinzo" was also inherited.

>>4058200
Shkannon is annoying but acceptable if it must be--their conflict did trigger some really good scenes in this episode--Shkannontrice (or any form of Shannontrice) is shit tier, but Shkannontricenzo would be enough to propel this into absolute hilarity to the point that I couldn't be mad.

About ShKanon, last I heard you couldn't change personalities at will, so pulling off EP2 would be difficult.

And since you guys claim they aren't aware of it and are different personas so no disguise, but isn't that weird? Like Kanon suddenly woke up in Beatrice clothes? He would be in a disguise until he changed, breaking Knox's tenth law in the process.

If they are aware of it then Knox's tenth is closed by default.

>>4058219
Yeah, Beatrice needs to be someone else.

If people don't like Jessitrice, fine, just anyone but Shannon if she is indeed Kanon.

>>4058230
I think EP6 made Shkannon almost impossible to get around, unfortunately, but I'll gladly take anything that pokes holes into it. Shkannon doesn't actually solve the Battler closed room dilemma, for instance (and if you invoke it, it becomes "pull-a-lever-for-X-personality" to the point of complete absurdity)

The question that everybody usually ignores:

Why is the shrine and the archway gone?

>>4058231
Jessitrice and Shannontrice are both shit tier.

>>4058252
Agreed, but I don't see any other way around it.

Given what we know, "Beatrice" has to be one of the 16.

>>4058230
>>4058245
Note that Shannon and Kanon are able to hold dialogues with each other, and with Beatrice if she's also a personality. It's not too much of a stretch to think that they could possibly "hand off"/"hand over" control.

>>4058250
Symbolism is important, Beatrice probably really believes that she is a witch, because of Kinzo.
So she destroyed them.

>>4058250
Lightning strike. Most likely coincidence, but because of it there's no way for anyone to check if Shannon really did break the mirror inside it.

You know, I'm getting tired of Battler as the heroine of the story.

Although I liked Erika lubing up her spiked wedding ring which was too small for Battler with her saliva and forcing it on as a decent rape symbol.

>>4058268
The issue is...

What about Kuwadorian? Beato has strong ties to it, but Shannon or Kanon has none.

What about Maria? We barely ever see Shannon or Kanon interacting with her in any meaningful way.

What about the master of the island being nineteen (hell, the number nineteen being important in general)? Both Shannon and Kanon are sixteen.

What about the way the person refers to Beato in the flashback. "My cute Beatrice?" Shannon is always subservient or disdainful of Beato, where the person that actually made her is full of love and sympathy for her.

So where did Shannon's corpse come from in ep1? And haven't there been a million times where you see both Shannon and Kannon in a room together, not to mention all the servants treating them as separate people?

Kannon would also have to have the One Winged Eagle on his thigh for this theory to be possible.

>>4058285
>You know, I'm getting tired of Battler as the heroine of the story.
Can't be helped. That's his role.

>>4058294
There's also the Battler closed room issue. Battler refused to escape from the closed room no matter what if it meant exposing a part of Beatrice's heart to the point of being tortured into insanity. The entire issue was that he (or Beatrice) needed to think of a trick to let him out that didn't do that.

If Shkannon/Shkannontrice was invoked to solve the closed room, doesn't that contradict that? Battler doesn't seem troubled at all by the solution Beatrice provides asides from worrying about Kanon being shut up in the room in his place.

ShKanon is most likely true, but Beatrice most likely represent more than just one more personality.

>>4058300
We never see Kanon's thigh.

Though that's a good point, it would be odd if Shannon and Beatrice are the same person, because this would require the tattoo to be switchable, as Beatrice has hers on her right leg while Shannon's is on her left.

>>4058200
Shkannontricerikinzo.

>>4058294
-Shannon has been on the island since she was 6, Kumasawa basically raised her.
Kumasawa knows about Kuwadorian.
Put 2 and 2 together.

-Maria probably met Shannon in her Beatrice mode every years, and she being a kid didn't recognize her. So why would she care about Shannon?

-Mental image, it doesn't have to be the truth, in her head Beatrice is 19, and she is also blond, busty and a witch.

-Scene probably happened 6 years ago.
Or it could be the original personality, who is neither Shannon, Kanon, nor Beatrice.

Supported by the fact that Shannon has the same existential FURNITURE crisis than Kanon, she also considers she was created and that she isn't a human.

>>4058270
DID does not work that way.
And that's my biggest problem with this shitty theory, it's just conviniently altering a mental illness to the point it fits.
If Knox 3rd applies and mysterious drugs and diseases are forbidden, then I don't know why mental illness X should be allowed.

>>4058311
That's also not something that Jessica would say.

...Wait. At the very beginning of the flashback, isn't the word "Mother" said? What's the significance of that?

>>4058300
Genji/Ronove, Nanjo/Gaap and Kumasawa/Virgillia know about it, obviously.

Shannon's corpse is a fake, never been disproved in red, unlike most of the other corpses.

>>4058346
moe Beato's "mother" is the original Beato.

>>4058333
> DID does not work that way.
It does in fiction, unfortunately.

>>4058333
It's a fiction, I saw plenty of novels, movies or games that used DID in such a way, with the various personalities interacting with each other.
Don't see why Umineko would be different.

>>4058311
THIS!!!

>>4058333
There is no brain parasite that causes paranoid delusions, persecution complex, etc., but that didn't stop Ryukishi from shoehorning it into Higurashi.

>>4058376
But then in Umineko he specifically invoked a set of rules meant to block out any stupid bullshit like that and used it as a plot device.

>>4058311
Showing Beatrice's heart = showing that she just exist in the delusional mind of a crazy girl.

Which explain why Battler didn't want to show it.

>>4058294
>What about Kuwadorian? Beato has strong ties to it, but Shannon or Kanon has none.

How do you know Shannon doesn't. She's been in the island for 10 years, and it was made explicitly clear that servants usually left the island after a few years, Shannon being the exception.


>What about Maria? We barely ever see Shannon or Kanon interacting with her in any meaningful way.

Who knows? Perhaps, it's situational. For example, if we assume Evatrice was a different person, Maria had no problems acknowledging her as Beatrice.


>What about the master of the island being nineteen (hell, the number nineteen being important in general)?

It was never said the master of the island was 19? Where did you get that? The only thing we go was Kyrie's comment about how "Beatrice" looked like a woman in her 20s. However, proper make-up would probably help Shannon achieve that effect, along with the fact she has a fully developed body (or it does look that way). There's also nothing that denies the possibility that Kyrie may have been lying, and she's an accomplice or even the mastermind.


>Kannon would also have to have the One Winged Eagle on his thigh for this theory to be possible.

Maybe he does. Or, perhaps, the tattoo can be removed.

>>4058332
>Kumasawa knows about Kuwadorian. Put 2 and 2 together.
No indication Shannon knows about Kuwadorian or that she told Shannon. You're asking me to put 2 and 0 together and get seventeen.

>Maria probably met Shannon in her Beatrice mode every years, and she being a kid didn't recognize her. So why would she care about Shannon?
Doesn't explain why Shannon doesn't care about her. Shannon cares about Kanon and the people he cares about. Why wouldn't she do the same for Beato?

>Mental image, it doesn't have to be the truth, in her head Beatrice is 19, and she is also blond, busty and a witch.
Why? Explain this logically. If Shannon can create ideal personalities, why doesn't she do it for George?

>>4058329
ZOMG mirrors! It all fits!!11

>>4058360
Not to mention Ryuukishi seems to portray absinthe as a hallucinogenic. In reality, it isn't, but populary, it has believed to be one.

Just because something doesn't quite work out like that in reality, it doesn't mean he wouldn't do it.

>>4058387
>It was never said the master of the island was 19? Where did you get that?

It's stated in EP6.

Why are you suddenly saying Shannon doesn't know about Kuwadorian? Chances are, she does. She mentions she's been to the "golden land" where she was an equal with Beatrice. The golden land she refers to is probably Kuwadorian.

>>4058387
Episode 6 states that "19" is an important number in Umineko, and one of its significances is that it's the age of the master of the island.

>>4058329
>it would be odd if Shannon and Beatrice are the same person, because this would require the tattoo to be switchable
Ok, so my pet theory that Kannon is really a girl is still possible!!

>>4058384
Except the Shkannontrice solution would expose "alternate personalities in the delusional mind of a crazy girl". Battler had no problem with this solution right after he almost chopped himself into tiny pieces to avoid exposing it. Huh?

>>4058332
>Supported by the fact that Shannon has the same existential FURNITURE crisis than Kanon, she also considers she was created and that she isn't a human.

Well, it's the same with Genji, though.

>>4058419
Genji doesn't have the same crisis, he is just a SAMURAI who will follow his master will to the letter and then to the grave.
Not the same crisis as Shannon or Kanon.

>>4058427
But Genji is also referred to as furniture.

>>4058396
>>4058411
Ah, well, my bad. In which chapter was it said? I'd like to re-check that.

>>4058447
Yeah but once again, not in the same way.
Genji followed Kinzo all his life and own everything to him.

Shannon and Kanon are two teenagers.

>>4058464
But at one point Genji talks to Kanon about his duty as if they were in the same position. "Our concern is repaying our debt to the Master", etc etc.

>>4058417
It could also be that Battler respected Beatrice's choice of revealing something about herself.

I can handle Shannon = Kanon but I hope the mastermind is someone else, maybe Kyrie.

>>4058464
You're missing the point. Furniture, in EP6, were referred to as incomplete humans. Genji is referred as furniture, so in that regard he should be similar to them, even if he doesn't have their existential crisis.

Could Shkannontrice be the man from 19 years ago? Since it seemed that "he" might not even be male because his voice was light, that might make sense.

>>4058496
oh god not another one...

>>4058493
Shkangentrice?

>>4058486
Mastermind Kyrie is a theory people only like because of her characterization. It doesn't work. She always has to be betrayed or accidentally kill herself or something lame like that, pretty pathetic for a mastermind.

Shkannon, on the other hand, can solve every murder in the game. Actually, Kanon alone can be used to solve every murder.

>>4058501
Shkanonakitrice enters in the game

>>4058482
He says nothing about this, though, especially after the narrative hammers in that he's gone insane because he's refused to do it. All of his concern is for Kanon being stuck in the room. Kanon tells him he needs to go because Beatrice is fighting for him and waiting for him. Later, Battler pretty much laughs at the sly trick Beatrice pulled to get him out.

The Kanon solution to getting Battler out didn't expose any part of Beatrice's heart.

Shannon is everyone and she dreamed everything. Umineko solved forever.

>>4058523
no you're wrong, the real theory is battleveryone, Battler is in a mental asylum after going berserk and killing his whole family

Those who have doubts about ShKanontrice, read this
>>4058445

>>4058493
Maybe Genji had MPD in his youth?

Everyone is loaded up on LSD. Explains EVERYTHING.

>>4058507
>Actually, Kanon alone can be used to solve every murder.

Except when he gets killed, and his death gets confirmed in red. Unless we follow some bullshit about what death means.

>>4058496
Was it stated what season it was when Natsuhi received that baby? It was probably relatively newborn. Assuming those numbers from episode 3/4 are Battler's birthday and Shkannontrice's birthday, the season being fall would work out well. However, Natsuhi liking fall the most after that seems a bit strange.

>>4058540
...Wait a minute. Ronove referred to Genji as his "younger brother" at one point. What if Ronove was Genji's original personality? There IS the fact that his family name is "Ronoue", after all.

>>4058546
the same kind of death used by Shkanon but instead of kanon persona of Shkanon, the kanon persona of Joshua, exactly the same way

>>4058554
This is going beyond fucking ridiculous at this point.

>>4058558
Doesn't work that way.
Names aren't exclusive, if Kanon "died" then Joshua is dead too.
Of course the exception could be different personalities.

>>4058452

19.

[blah blah blah]

"It was also the age of this world's true master."

>>4058579
of course, his kanon persona different from his Joshua persona, from furniture to human. Kanon's death=Johua's life. That was the most popular theory before ep6 after all

>>4058603
There was no hint whatsoever of a "Joshua" personality though.
Anyways it's stupid.

>>4058618
Everything about alternate personas is stupid.

>>4058635
I agree.
But some of these stupid shits have a lots and a lots of hints behind them.
Blame R07

Wait, remember all this talk about how Kinzo changed completly after the war? About how he is mad and his mood change so easy?

What if Kinzo himself had MPD? That would explain why he took care of people with it like Shannon and possibly Genji.

Rokkenjima is turning into one big madhouse...

>>4058688
More like house of contrived stupidity.

>>4058688
It's far more likely just to be PTSD.

>>4058688
PSTD would probably make more sense for that, actually.

>>4058688
>Rokkenjima is turning into one big madhouse...

My theory is Rokkenjima is not an island, but the name of a psychiatric hospital. Battler (actually named Sentou) suffers from schizophrenia. His best friend "Beatrice" (I wouldn't know her real name) suffers from DID.

Gah. So are there any mysteries that apparently *can't* be solved *without* Shkannon?

Multiple Personality Disorder: The visual novel

>>4058790
This is the approach people should be taking. Shkannon theory fills in an innumerable amount of holes, we can sit for dozens of threads filling them.

But for the people who abhor this theory, all you need is one instance where the Shkannon piece does not fit the closed room puzzle, and it's subject to being totally false.

New theory; Before the game started, a room has been set up on the mainland with two people in, one alive and one dead. These persons have both been officially granted the names of all persons, real and fictitious, currently present on the island.

Also, everybody have severe MPD, and can switch to the identity of any other person also on the island at will, or also involuntary as the plot demands (That is, everybody on the island believes him/herself to be every other person).
They are also trained Zen masters, and can erase their self at will, to the point where you can say in red "there is no one there" about a room they are meditating in.

>>4058881
All it needs it alien brain parasites, and I think you're onto something.

>>4058881
More believable than Shkanontrice, I can see it happening.

>>4058881

>>4058688
I think he has both MPD and PSTD.

>>4058881
I like this theory.

>>4058919
I think he has PMS.

Alright, random question here, am slowly working my way through the vn's. I've been spoiled on most aspects due to the anime and reading theories here on jp but i don't know about this one.

Kinzo is meant to be dead as of 1 year, yes?

If so, who's body in ep 1 was in the boiler? Surely if you kept a corpse there for a year there'd be nothing but ash.. a body double? With 6 toes?

>>4059005
>Kinzo is meant to be dead as of 1 year, yes?
Just over 1 year.
>If so, who's body in ep 1 was in the boiler? Surely if you kept a corpse there for a year there'd be nothing but ash.. a body double? With 6 toes?
Why not store it in a freezer?

>>4059005
Yes
His corpse is definitely somewhere on the game board, according to Battler's gold. Body doubles were denied in red during episode 4, though it may not apply to earlier episodes; it may or may not be his corpse, but the point is moot since we know he's dead.

Kanon was a separate individual and was killed by Natsuhi for refusing to pretend Kinzo was alive before everyone got on the island. Shannon who was already a MPD with Beatrice being her other personality suffered too much stress from having both Kanon and Kinzo die so created another personality of Kanon.

>>4058171
please cease and desist with your spamming on our board ano
n
ta
lk.c
om thanks in advance have a nice day many hugs from tiny loli

Magic is a reality in the Umineko world, which is no secret and honestly only denied by a few hardcore buthurt haters ever since the 2nd episode. However, the "magic" in Umineko seems awfully like a shared, high-resolution fantasy or day-dream. So furniture may just be a shared delusion of a few people, but more than just imaginary friends as they can take on a life of their own via magic. Even when real, they are still less than human, or they are multiple personalities of of the same human that can manifest separately via magic.

I know this sounds retarded, but that's the direction I've been getting vibes from ever since the 4th ep.

>>4059093
Magic is a trick. That's why Beatrice was able to to use gold text concerning the candy and the cup.
There are no witches or magic fights, but there are tricks.

So, what the hell is gold text anyways? I've been reading through loads of these spoiler threads and I totally forgot about it.

The more this shit gets dragged on, the more I support the drug overdose theory. Although if I were in Battler's place I don't know how I would explain an underage detective shoving a saliva-lubed, cursed wedding ring on my finger in a wedding ceremony attended by a crowd of neverland guests wearing goat masks.

>>4059142
Er... Battler doesn't have to explain anything in human terms anymore, in case you forgot.

>>4058171
please cease and desist with your spamming on our board ano
n
ta
lk.c
om thanks in advance have a nice day many hugs from tiny loli

>>4059142
>saliva lubed
wat

>>4059173

Best rape imagery in Umineko IMO.

>>4058170
please cease and desist with your spamming on our board ano
n
ta
lk.c
om thanks in advance have a nice day many hugs from tiny loli

>>4059136
it's just red without any confusion. you can't play word games with it and have to take its literal meaning

>>4059159
Maybe not, but Bern will.

I don't care what you fags say. I still want to believe that Kyrie is the culprit. Shkannon has been beyond obvious since EP 1 and Skannontrice only makes it worse, because the people making theories have no idea what the definition of DID.

>>4059195
>because the people making theories have no idea what the definition of DID

1. DID is rarely done properly in fiction.
2. It doesn't have to be DID. For all we know, Shannon is just cross-dressing. She may be bisexual as well.

>>4059187
Then how does it bypass Knox's 2nd?

>>4059195
>implying Kyrie culprit isn't just as "obvious"

>>4059195
You do know how DID is normally treated in fictional works, right?

>>4059173
Erica makes this cursed wedding ring, but it's too small for Battler so she lubes it up with some saliva. Oh yeah, it also has some thorns and resembles a spiked dog collar if you made it larger. She then pushes it on, much to Battler's agony, even telling him she's going to push it all the way in.

Sums up Battler's position in the Umineko pretty well.

>>4059211
>1. DID is rarely done properly in fiction.
Which is why I don't want it to be the solution. When Ryukishi said the game is solvable I took that as a fact that there wouldn't be any retarded or improbable solutions, like brain parasites. But if he can't even do DID right then he should have never designed a game with a person having DID. You can't just 'kill' a personality.

>2. It doesn't have to be DID. For all we know, Shannon is just cross-dressing. She may be bisexual as well.
Why would she cross dress and kill people. What is the purpose of this insane scheme to dress up as a boy. We know Kanon has to exist because he does have a body (unless you think 7 people did a group lie and said there was a body in the chapel during EP 3) and there's also the fact that he is the 9th victim in Kyrie's group from EP 4.

>>4059195
kyrie culprit theory with shannon/kanon/whoever as accomplice can also explain most of the murders.
besides, battler's sin, his birth and rudolf saying he will be killed all point to kyrie. battler is actually the son of kyrie (confirmed to be ange's brother by red). kinzo or someone probably transfered him away at birth. six years ago he abandoned his family and thus committed a sin.

>>4059226
Ryukishi has issues, man.

>>4059214
I never said that. But a Shkanontrice end would be shit tier. Shkanon itself would be fine, but the former is overdoing it.

I still think she had something to do with the murders, as far as closed rooms go.

What if Kanon died some days before the beginning of episode 6?

>>4059226
fapfapfap

>>4059226
>>4059226

Oh, Ryu. Ryu, Ryu, Ryu....you and your hilarious bondage fetish. You've even got everyone on /jp/ wanting to be topped by Beatrice, Super Hanyuu, or some other witch.

>>4059226
hot

>>4059195
At the very least there should be something big about The Lord we don't know yet. She's maintaining most of the magic in ep.4 all by herself with those inexplicable phone conversations. I believe she and Rosa are the only ones not believed to be allied with Krauss who have asserted Kinzo's existence.

>>4059226
Beato's going to be pissed when she hears about that.

>>4059277
Well that depends when he died. 1985 he was definietly alive still. And then there's Kanon going to the school festival in 1986 in September (unless you want to suggest that's Shannon cross-dressing)

>>4059226
>>4059226
>>4059226
>>4059226
>>4059226
what is the context of this? are battler and erika married now?

>>4059301
No. Battler was comatose and Erika was marrying his body so that she could become the territory lord. Beato stopped it.

this is how umineko will end and none of you can stop it

>>4059301
It was directly following the opening wedding scene with Battler and Erica are about to get married. Battler was in a mostly catatonic state, but he did have a little bit of awareness with what was happening.

>>4059297
How can a corpse be pissed off?

>>4059331
what about kinzo? he's pretty pissed off all the time.

>>4059359
Angry delusions make for complacent worm food.

>>4059249
>But if he can't even do DID right then he should have never designed a game with a person having DID. You can't just 'kill' a personality.

The issue is, that regardless he's been doinf DID properly or not, that may be irrelevant in the end. There have been far too many hints from the very beginning that Shannon and Kanon may be the same person. In fact, I think this is one of the oldest theories.


>Why would she cross dress and kill people. What is the purpose of this insane scheme to dress up as a boy.

That may be explained later. There are still 2 more episodes.


>We know Kanon has to exist because he does have a body (unless you think 7 people did a group lie and said there was a body in the chapel during EP 3) and there's also the fact that he is the 9th victim in Kyrie's group from EP 4.

Shannon's body was the first one to be found. Since the relatives had to go around checking where the other keys led them to, Shannon had enough time to change into Kanon. For all we know, they could have kept the door to the chapel open so that Shannon (now Kanon) could enter and play dead. Then, after some time, the relatives found Kanon's body.

And for him being the 9th victim in Kyrie's group, that could simply mean that at that point Shannon decided to drop the Kanon persona.

>>4059311
Actually she would become the game master by receiving Kinzo's ring and using it Battler's stead (apparently even magical family rules are incredibly sexist). She would lock him away and use his authority in proxy. Being able to set up a bedroom lined with mirrors and a bird cage for beato in it appeared to be mostly an added bonus...although she did seem equally excited about how she would humiliate Battler physically.

And after the ep6 ??? I think battler is there to attract every fucked up dominatrix on the planet. There's something about him, apparently, that make bad girls want to abuse him forever.

Is there anyone who actually likes Shkannon/Shkannontrice, as a solution/story element, regardless of whether they think it's true or not?

>>4059425
No.

>>4059425
I'm sure there must be people who like it. I don't like it myself. Well, I wouldn't mind Shkanon if it wasn't the big answer to the murders.

>>4059425
Personally, no. It makes the entire game / story feel like it went to shit. If it's the true ending, I hope it causes George and Jessica to ragequit after finding out their lovers were actually the same person and wanted Battler's cock rather than them. Maybe the story will end with Jessica and George brutally killing Battler and Shkanontricewhoever and everyone else goes home happily.

>>4059212
Anyone? The archive is barely even loading right now, so I can't even search for an answer.

>>4059446
Only acceptable Shkannontrice end.

I don't know why shippers are raging over Shkannontrice. The entire BatBea romance was in the meta-world, where Beato doesn't have to be bombs or a crazy crossdresser.

Though the latter would be nice.

>>4059425
I honestly don't mind Shkanon.

Fucking Shkanontrice is where I draw the line.

>>4059403
>Shannon's body was the first one to be found. Since the relatives had to go around checking where the other keys led them to, Shannon had enough time to change into Kanon. For all we know, they could have kept the door to the chapel open so that Shannon (now Kanon) could enter and play dead. Then, after some time, the relatives found Kanon's body.

Problem: It was pronounced both were dead. So how did Shannon just happen to die. And how could she get into the chapel if the key was found in the boiler room?

What song plays during the scene in EP6 where Battler is roleplaying everyone?

>>4059254
Didn't Beatrice deny that? Battler went on about explaining the whole thing and she was like "no, that was something else".

>>4059403
> And for him being the 9th victim in Kyrie's group, that could simply mean that at that point Shannon decided to drop the Kanon persona.
Haha, no. It just doesn't work that way. If you want to present a credible theory, any multiple identities will have to live and die together. No "At this point she decided to drop the persona, so he 'died'", and no "he walked into the room as Kanon but out of it as Ronald McDonald."
That's just made out of crap, fail and small bombs.
I'm not opposed to the theory itself, as long as it's properly executed and actually explains things rather than create a need to horribly twist semantics to the point of implausibility.

>>4059532
Uhh, and by "that" I meant Battler abandoning the family being his sin.

Lambda's livestream is up~!

Time to watch some more EP6!

>>4059533
More likely that one of the other personalities "killed" the Kanon personality.

>>4059554
Ah, yes, the "Jedi truth".

>>4059554
DID or whatever does NOT work like that. You can't just kill a personality and your other personalities just can't kill a different personality.

>>4059565
They're magical personalities, man. They can do shit like that.

>>4059565
It doesn't matter how it works in real life, I have read stories involving DID that do exactly that.

It's stupid and illogical, but I doubt Ryukishi fact checks very closely. I would not put it past him to have such a bullshit plot device.

>>4059565

Umineko is just Type-Moon enough for one personality to conceptually "kill" another one, though.

>>4059586
Hell, Dlanor's Red Key is a conceptual weapon. It says so in the Episode 5 TIPS.

New Beato was Shanon's old love.
Old Beato was the Island's ghost legend.
They're two incomplete Beatos, meaning there's something more to complete Beato.

When Kanon dies,
Beato learns how to create closed spaces, use magic and is complete again.

I wonder what it means.

>>4059493
>Problem: It was pronounced both were dead. So how did Shannon just happen to die. And how could she get into the chapel if the key was found in the boiler room?

This is where Shkanontricenzo comes into play. Kinzo, Shannon and Kanon are dead, but Beatrice can do the killings.


>>4059533
>Haha, no. It just doesn't work that way. If you want to present a credible theory, any multiple identities will have to live and die together. No "At this point she decided to drop the persona, so he 'died'", and no "he walked into the room as Kanon but out of it as Ronald McDonald."

I know DID doesn't work that way. But this is fiction. DID is rarely done properly, and this is R07 we're talking about.

>>4059586
>Umineko is just Type-Moon enough for one personality to conceptually "kill" another one, though.

At least Nasu understand what DID is and outright says this is not DID but some bullshit I've just made up.

>>4059609
>Shkanontricenzo

If we go this far, I think we should just say fuck it and root for Shkanontricenzodolfyieyoshivarosariassicattlerorgetsuhihdasawanji, man.

>>4059627
Uh... we're the ones who have taken to calling the stuff in Umineko "DID". So it's actually our fault for using the incorrect terminology when R07 hasn't even said what it is yet.

>>4059609
Then a DID solution that doesn't even understand what DID exactly is shouldn't be the answer. Using DID without knowing what it is and how to use it properly is no better than a brain parasite solution.

Oh hey guys, Beatrice here, what's going o-
>Shkanontricenzo
On second thought, never mind.

Ryukishi makes fun of Higurashi's implausibe ending, modifies Knox 4th to include diseases and then pulls some cheap mental illness bullshit?
I don't buy this.

Battler got the fuck out of the island by swimming when he discovered that Erika was killing people.
That's because there are only 17.

Does anyone have an explanation for Beato not having the same tattoo as Shannon?

>>4059676
Make up?

>>4059676
It's a stick on tattoo.

>>4059689
Scratch and sniff also, shit is so cash.

>>4059689
I want to say "that's fucking stupid", but this whole mess about crossdressing and personality switches is already fucking stupid.

>>4059643
>>4059660
I don't have to explain Shkanontrice.

Now, if you guys remember, in EP4 it was said the people recognized Kinzo's existence. This is when Battler mentioned the "people have multiple names" theory, and then said someone had inherited Kinzo's name. Therefore, Shkanontricenzo.

If they are also responsible of extorting Natsuhi in EP5, then it's be Shkanontricenzobattler2.

There are hints backing this up, and I've just presented them.

>>4059689
so wait in episode 4, shannon ran over to the mansion's second floor to confront battler, switching into the wig, suit, taking off her old tattoo and applying the old one, then when she was done talking to him she took off her wig changed back into her maid outfit and erased and put on the old tattoo again and ran back to kyrie and the oth...

what is this i dont even

>>4059676
Maybe Ryukishi had planned for a real mind-fuck ending, then accidentally fucked up and made it impossible, so he just went along with the theory that made the most sense in relation to the hints he gave out.
I wouldn't put it past him

>>4059706
Shannon could kick your ass man.

>>4059706
>implying maids do not possess the ability to manipulate time

>>4059722
More like BT was ghost writing then whoops, he had to go and die.

I think R07 is under the effects of the L5 virus.

>>4059702
>Shkanontricenzobattler2

This...this has gone too far.

>>4059702
I love you, so much.

>>4059609
I'm not even talking about DID. It seems likely that any multiple identities will have been put up and maintained deliberately.
I'm talking about maintaining the Knox-style 'solvability'. The clues may be sufficient to claim 'disguise', but any such blatant and unrealistic juggling of personalities just to get misleading red truths would appear as nothing so much as an combination of a mooning and an ass-pull. The reader should be able to trust that it won't be used, since it opens up that excuse to anyone at any time. Kyrie never acted out of character? Fuck that, that was all done by her other personality, Christe. Nanjo didn't commit suicide? Well Bob, who happens to be his other personality, did.

>>4059706
I'm just going to take the tattoo issue as a sliver of frail hope that Shkannontrice doesn't exist and go home, guys.

>>4059736
The witch never declared his death in red.

>>4059753
Yeah, I would give anything if the -trice was omitted.

Then again, that reopens the "Who the fuck is the blonde witch?" problem, and we're running out of young looking girls to fill that gap.

>>4059751
You're that "plausibility" guy from earlier, aren't you?

>>4059769
And Jessica obviously doesn't have a tattoo...

>>4059769
It's probably wrong of me to prefer the board collapse under another logic error than have Shannontrice or Jessitrice be true.

>>4059769
I dunno, that guy's Beatrice=Manon="Maria" theory could work.

>>4059775
I'm sure you wouldn't mind this board collapsing, since you're not from these parts.

>>4059773
And neither Shannon or Jessica are 19. Fuck you guys, I want my hope.

>>4059773
We never see Rosa or Kyrie's delicious thighs, therefore we are left with Rosatrice or Kyrietrice if the tattoo is real, and it cannot be covered by makeup or something.

>>4059772
No, I am the plausibility guy. Good to see others share a similar train of thought to me, though.

Oh, and George and Kanon are never seen together. They are the same person.

>>4059751
>Kyrie never acted out of character? Fuck that, that was all done by her other personality, Christe. Nanjo didn't commit suicide? Well Bob, who happens to be his other personality, did.

I've just laughed so hard.

Anyway, there are no hints that they may have different personalities, any sort of mental disorder, or that they are disguising. On the other hand, these hints do exist for Shannon and Kanon.

Let us hope someone will hit R07 hard enough on the face, so that he realises how shitty this development is.

>>4059795
Well, either way, I hope it's you two that turn out to be correct.

ITT we all stop thinking and insult those who ignore the easy answer.

>>4059785
You forgot Eva and Natsuhi

Question. In Episode 5, why would the magic circles be drawn wrong if Shkannon is Beatrice and Shkannon is obviously still alive?

>>4059810
Not seeing much of that at all. Looks more like everyone who accepts the easy answer hates it, and the rest just don't accept the easy answer.

>>4059811
Both have pretty much been disbarred as culprits, though.

At the very least, Natsuhi has.

>>4059804

You think that's bad? I'm now convinced that all the characters with blond hair in When they Cry are actually alternate personalities of Shannon.

That includes Higurashi.

>>4059804
However, regarding Shkanontrice, there are no hints for some of the things the supporters are assuming, and bringing that up leads to your post being ignored.

>>4059822
Sayo = 34

Shkannontricenzobattlerkanodelta, go

>>4059815
Clearly she was in the personality that can't draw for shit because that's how Umineko works.

>>4059819

Natsuhi has been outright stated not to be the Culprit.

Eva is such an obvious Red Herring at this point that to make her the culprit would be the biggest troll in the history of the modern mystery.

>>4059769
>Then again, that reopens the "Who the fuck is the blonde witch?" problem, and we're running out of young looking girls to fill that gap.

That should be a person in disguise. EP6 reveals to us that the person who created Beatrice wasn't blonde, didn't have blue eyes, nor did he/she behave like Beatrice.

One way or the other, the Beatrice we know doesn't exist in the real world, in any way.

>>4059819
They don't have to be the culprit to put on a dress, wig and makeup.

>>4059826
People follow the strongest theory, that's the logical thing to do.

If you have a better one, please share with us, because I don't like Shkannontrice one iota.

>>4059833
I wouldn't put it past Ryukishi...

>>4059834
So even if Beatrice is neither Shannon nor Jessica, the best we can hope for is an ugly chick? Feels bad man.

>>4059839
We're currently trying to dig holes so we might be able to make a theory from them. If you don't like Shkannontrice, give us a hand.

>>4059834
It's either Shannon, Jessica, or a middle aged woman.

Or Kumasawa, why do I feel so cheated.

>>4059815
Because GM is Lambda and everyone is culprit.

>>4059844
Not necessarily ugly, just nothing like Beatrice.

>>4059857
Kumasawa=Beatrice=Jessica=Kanon=Shannon=Sayo=34=Takano=Lambdadelta

I'll be leaving these boards for a month. When I come back, I want to see Shkanontrice completely demolished and a superior non-retarded theory in its place.

What? I should help with that? Uh... Know what? Nevermind, Shkanontrice is fine too.

>>4059857
It was never stated the person Battler met 6 years ago was a woman.

>>4059874
>Umineko
>non-retarded theories

>>4059880
Fuck you, Beatrice will not be a man, I will end everything if that happens.

>>4059888
But she doesn't exist in the real world anyway. It's fine, she's a woman in meta-world.

>>4059872
>Kumasawa=Virgillia=Ronove=Gaap=Goats=Genji=Nanjo=Gohda=rose=Maria=Beatrice=Jessica=Kanon=Shannon
=Sayo=34=Takano=Lambdadelta=Bernkastel=Battler=Krauss=Kinzo=bomb

>>4059888
SHOTATRICE

>>4059897
So Piece gets the shaft? LITERALLY gets the shaft? Fuck that theory, and fuck the meta world.

>>4059904
You thought he was going to be able to share Shannon with George? George will bring home the girl, Battler would just have to settle with the portrait.

>>4059919
And Ange will lost her virginity a bit earlier.

>>4059904
Really, Piece Battler's fate makes me feel sad, man.

>>4059938
*will lose
oh fuck, i'm drunk.

Well, that other post from the other day give me some slight inspiration:
So, what if the real Kumasawa is dead?
This would allow for some one else, to essentially commit most of the crimes. Of course, everyone that states an alibi would have to be in on the fact that Kumasawa is dead, but that's a relatively small bit to sidestep. Kumasawa's real body would have to be hidden some where on the island as well, but as that's already being done with Kinzo, also a small factor to sidestep.
This could be supported by the fact that Kumasawa is as old or even older than Kinzo, making it not unlikely that she could have died. There's also the fact that she was stated to be an expert actor, so someone taking her role might not be noticed as everyone could just assume that she's just acting oddly. The person taking her role really wouldn't violate and of Knox's rules either, as the character was introduced quite early on, just not properly. I think I've covered most of the basics here. So go ahead and try and shoot it down, to which I'll either simply ignore, or wordplay my way out of.

tl;dr: I can make implausible theories too.

>>4059919
The problem is Battler doesn't love Shannon. The person Battler loves doesn't exist.

>>4059946
However, there are no hints for your theory, unlike with Shanontricenzo.

UNF UNF UNF

>>4059958
Well, it depends on how much meta influences piece. I don't get the impression that piece even knows about Beatrice. I can see a sappy end involving meta fucking nonexistent Beato, and piece getting whoever is pretending to be Beatrice.

Is it clearly stated that if Battler did not come, the murders would never happen?Just wondering..

>>4059958
Not yet, she doesn't. I can totally see Ryukishi07 pulling a troll ending in which, despite the fact that magic isn't supposed to exist in real life, Meta Battler somehow creates a Beatrice in real life, separate from Shannon. I mean, if Hanyuu can take on a human form in Higurashi...

>>4059983
So, Pinocchio end?

>>4059983
Even though I don't mind the pairing, I'd hate for something so contrived. It was a stupid about discovering the mystery, and he becomes some kind of master wizard at the end.

>>4059996
stupid story*, I can't carry a thought it seems.

>>4059974
It's not about Meta having an influence on a piece. This person, whoever he/she may be, created a personality to fit Battler's image of the ideal woman, and to throw her anger in (it seems this person has gone through some tough times).

If she created a personality to fit the idea of Battler's ideal woman (i.e. Beatrice) we can make a good guess and say the original person is nothing like Beatrice. Therefore, Beatrice doesn't exist in the real world.

>>4059983
>pulling a troll ending in which, despite the fact that magic isn't supposed to exist in real life, Meta Battler somehow creates a Beatrice in real life

That's the kind of trolling I like.

>>4059996
Battler does say something about how he plans to take Beatrice outside the game.

>>4059958
YES CRAZY BATTZO END IS BEING REALIZED.
SEE IT THROUGH RYUKISHI

>>4059983
Time warp the Beatrice from 20 years ago, bring her to the present, kill her soul and replace it with the soul of the Beatrice he wants?

I'd rather Pinnochio end than lonely hobo end.

Aurora already told us that Battler's history is over by episode 6. Meta Battler and Meta Beato will be together forever in the witch's dimension.

Next episode will be Bernkastel trolling while Auau tries to find the truth. And if we have a eighth episode, it'll be about a kakera where nobody dies in Rokkenjima.

>>4060035
>Time warp the Beatrice from 20 years ago, bring her to the present, kill her soul and replace it with the soul of the Beatrice he wants?

I wouldn't put that past Battler.

>>4059958
Battler didn't love anyone until all this meta-meta-meta-GM-bullshit. And at first he kept going on about how he would still go ahead and kill Beatrice, then he said he would kick out 34 and Bern so he can kill Beatrice on his own, but now he's just being a little bitch in denial.

>>4060003
>That's the kind of trolling I like.

I would find that to be a horribly cliché ending. If I wanted such an ending, I would go watch a Disney movie or something. Not to mention it would be out of place to suddenly make a person exist. Plus all the other family members are going through tough times and a shitty life, then you've got Battler who has some fucked up mysterious past, and then at the end it would just be like "o hay heres ur magical GF lol :D ". I don't know, I feel like we're being set up for a huge troll-fest at the end of the game.

I'd rather Battler continue to live his life normally as though he never attended the tragic family conference, continue to attract many girls and ignore the existence of Beatrice, who actually doesn't exist.

>>4060059
>I would go watch a Disney movie or something.

I'm not sure that kind of ending would even be appropriate in a Disney movie.

>>4060059
I forgot to add that their problems will most likely not be fixed because everything will be revolving around bringing Beatrice to life. And if she ends up being this one person who magically allows everyone to have a good end, I would rage pretty hard.

>>4060059
>Battler didn't love anyone until all this meta-meta-meta-GM-bullshit.

That's irrelevant. Even if they share the same body, Shannon and Beatrice are different people. Battler doesn't love Shannon (well, she was his first love). The person he loves is Beatrice, and she doesn't exist.

>>4059839
> People follow the strongest theory, that's the logical thing to do.
Well, in the spirit of the game I think we should be exposing all possible theories that do not conflict with red text, as well as look for the deeper truth behind the game.

>>4059403
> And for him being the 9th victim in Kyrie's group, that could simply mean that at that point Shannon decided to drop the Kanon persona.
Actually, why is that necessary? It doesn't seem to contradict any red text that they both died at that point.

>>4059552
>Lambda's livestream is up~!

link?

Ange will be the protagonist of ep 7, bank on it

>>4060074
That's what I'm still confused about.
Even if Battler manages to find the truth, so what? Is this somehow going to make them all have some sort of inner epiphany and have them all become better people?
Jesus, Kyrie said she would have killed Asumu if she hadn't die of an illness. Almost all of the adults are seriously screwed money wise and I doubt just because Battler knows the truth they'll magically become happy and forget about that.

>>4060093
The gold exists. Money fixes all problems. I suppose the epiphany will help all the family members divide it up better without any problems. All is well.

>>4060093
Does this mean even if Battler doesn't come back, the murders would still happen?

so. trying to install this VN and it stops at the same spot everytime. I have my region set to japan and the language set to japaneses. What do I do.

>>4060103
Who knows? But it doesn't change the fact that Krauss, Natsuhi and the servants would be hiding Kinzo's death because Krass is fucking broke and is hoping for his business plan to go through. Nor would it change that Kyrie hates Asumu. Nor would it change Maria's horribly shitty past + her inability to make friends, and Rosa's shitty parenting skills / the deprivation she went through growing up, etc etc.

>>4060093
Obviously this is why he doesn't exposes the truth, lets everyone die due to the BOMB, and just creates a magic Golden Land in meta where everyone can be happy.

>>4060114
You're having the same problem I had. Extract the rar after your locale is set to Japanese, then try installing the game again.

>>4060114
There are still question marks. You're doing it wrong.

>>4060103
That's hard to say. I want to say the murders occur regardless if he is there, they just need to be aware of Kinzo's will/inheritance and the secret gold. (Then again, all of this has to do with Battler's sin, so that's probably all wrong)
>>4060099
That just seems so contrived. Could some small truth so easily fix their deeply rooted problems? I really doubt they'd all become perfectly content with getting only a fraction of the gold. If I remember correctly, Krauss needs the majority of it to get out of all the scams he's been in.

>>4060093
Money. They find the gold of the golden land, all their problems are over. Well, at least for the next 10 years or so.

>>4060123
So... uh... why didn't Beatrice just accept Battler's surrender in Ep3? It's no different than the bullshit that it is now.

isn't it possible that only game 1 was real, and everything else are just epiphanies (about his past that) Battler has while he's in a coma?

>>4060114
You're not supposed to set your region as Japan. You're supposed to set the language as Japanese.

>>4060145
You're not supposed to remember that.

>>4060145
She wanted to. She very much wanted to. But even more than that, she wanted Battler to reach the truth about her.

>>4060141
>Krauss needs the majority of it to get out of all the scams he's been in.

Nah. Krauss is actually still the most well off of the bunch. He just needs time for his investment to grow which should handle all of those scams. Unfortunately the other siblings can't give him time because they need money fast. Thus the conflict.

>>4060149
It's said that only episodes 1 and 2 actually happened. The rest are stories made up by Featherine. However, we can't ignore them, she made them with the truth still in mind, things just happen differently.

>>4060145
Because that's not what she wanted. She wanted Battler to reach the truth (while she was alive). The problem is now their positions are reversed, with Battler waiting Beatrice to remember.

>>4060167
Ha ha ha, Ok. Let me tell you about this lucrative Moon Tourism business idea...

>>4060164
So she's being completely selfish. Instead of allowing everyone to die and stay that way, she continues to let them get killed so someone can figure out the truth behind her.

>>4060169
>It's said that only episodes 1 and 2 actually happened.

Uh... no. It was only stated EPs 1-2 were written by Beatrice (it was said there were letters for other games as well, but there was no confirmation if they were like the other 2 letters).

>>4060164
I'm beginning to think about "A Few Good Men" and quite frankly, if Shkanontrice is the truth, then I really can't handle it.

>>4060169
Sounds like a bunch of deus ex machina right there.

Why make another witch? Or actually, I don't even know who this horned bitch is.

>>4060169
Why aren't 3-5 as legit as 1-2? They all just happened in different fragments after all.

Higurashi is a book in Episode 1 at least, yet we have Bern and AuAu.

>>4060182
You don't quite get it.

>>4060179
So Krauss was lying to Natsuhi when he said the business tower would fix everything? Damn, no one can be redeemed in Umineko.

>>4060188
She's Ryukishi07's author avatar, basically. And also Super Hanyuu.

>>4060182
I used to get so angry when people called Beatrice a selfish bitch and such, but now... I think you may be right.

>>4060191
I know, I know, Battler is supposed to see the truth for himself.
What the hell will that do? Even if he does stop the murders, everyone is still as fucked as they were before. It won't give them new personalities, or a new outlook. They'll just want more money.

>>4060189
the character states it isn't, so it isn't. That's why I called BS and said it's deus ex machina.

>>4060189
>Why aren't 3-5 as legit as 1-2?

They are legit. However, it'd be better to think of EPs 3-6 as adaptations of EPs 1-2.

>>4060204
And? If they're all dead, there's not much that can be done about it, but if they're alive, they can possibly change their situations.

>>4060179

>>4060179
Natsuhi had started supervising the plans and thought they looked legit. I think she has her shit together enough to be trusted.

>>4060204
>What the hell will that do? Even if he does stop the murders, everyone is still as fucked as they were before. It won't give them new personalities, or a new outlook. They'll just want more money.

Why solve any mystery at all? The outcome won't necessarily be perfect.

Does Ep1 have more meaning than the others since Meta-Battler is a direct continuity of Piece Battler from that game?

Remember when umineko was good?

>>4060189
They are. She took the truth and formed new stories around it.
Basically, Featherine is a super genius and managed to figured out the truth in 2 episodes. With that in mind, she created new stories to help us (and maybe Battler?) to figure out the truth.

>>4060193
Krauss was too butthurt to admit that he was scammed through the ass and has wasted most of the family's wealth. Like really, if that business deal fucks up, the entire family loses pretty much everything (mansion included) and Krauss will end up living on the streets as Jessica picks up the street name Beatrice and whores herself so she can buy bread for the family.

>>4060189
> Higurashi is a book in Episode 1 at least, yet we have Bern and AuAu.
Calling it now, Hachijou Touya wrote Higurashi too.

>>4060193
>So Krauss was lying to Natsuhi when he said the business tower would fix everything?

Someone explain this to me. Was Krauss really lying? It would explain why they needed a bigger portion of the gold, well I suppose family honor and greed could play a part in that as well.

>>4060203
One of the things that frustrated me about the meta-in-meta-in-meta direction EP6 took the story in was that I have no idea what's at stake anymore, or what significance the happenings in meta will have on the real people in the island. If meta becomes a closed circle in and of itself, that's bullshit. I have a hard time with things like "oh well Beatrice is her own person in meta so who cares if she's one of Shannon's twelve split personalities."

>>4060238
He wasn't lying in the sense that he didn't think he was lying, but he's still an idiot so yeah, it would probably have failed.

>>4060222
I understand that, but why is Beatrice making Battler figure out the truth? Just because?
>>4060215
Some of them are fucking awful and probably will never be fixed. The only way they can avoid killing each other is by staying away from each other.

Uh guys, I don't see how 3 couldn't be legit. It's kind of, you know, the one where ANGE AND HACHIJOU ARE TALKING IN?

>>4060230
>Like really, if that business deal fucks up, the entire family loses pretty much everything

That's the thing. The only thing that would fuck the business deal is if one of the main investors (Krauss) was pressed with criminal charges, thus making all of the other investors bail.

I believe the real question is, is Ryu only after jumping the shark now, or has he done it already, long ago?

>>4060227
That just makes it more confusing. So is she above Beatrice, who performs each game? Who actually writes the stories? Do they even occur? If 3-5 were just stories written by her, does that mean there's some disconnect between 2 and 3? If she wrote them, can we still link them to 1 and 2?

tl;dr I think it's completely stupid?

>>4060245
Krauss may be an idiot. But as another poster already said, Natsuhi already looked at it. Natsuhi's crazy but she's no idiot.

>>4060227
Ugh, I really hate another Deus Ex Machina from Hanyuu. Especially when it is literally the same character.

>>4060268
You don't think Krauss would have tried to fake a report for Natsuhi? I thought this was obvious as Kyrie said she had Krauss investigated and found his businesses failing.

>>4060265
Why did you have to die, BT?

Why dont we stop thinking for a while and when With-Hunt released EP6 patch, we can start thinking again?

>>4060246
>I understand that, but why is Beatrice making Battler figure out the truth? Just because?

1. It seems she (the real person) has been going through some tough shit. So, you may think of it as a cry for help.

2. She seems to be related to the murders, but she's not necessarily the mastermind. There's quite likely a mastermind, and there's a fucking bomb. If he can decipher this, even if his family's problems are not completely solved, all of them can keep on living.

>>4060269
Super Hanyuu is set up as evil as fuck in the end so we'll see. I guess.

>>4060276
That was obviously in reference to things such as the island tourist attraction, which is consequently what Kyrie and friends always bring up in the conference. Business tower? No mention.

>>4060266
>So is she above Beatrice, who performs each game? Who actually writes the stories? Do they even occur? If 3-5 were just stories written by her, does that mean there's some disconnect between 2 and 3? If she wrote them, can we still link them to 1 and 2?

She's just Ryuukishi's avatar in the game. That's it, don't think too much about it.

>>4060303
But she's also being set up as a villain. So who knows.

>>4060227
I heard that she wrote what she saw.

>>4060287
Woah really? I thought Bern was the evil one, compared to her.

>>4060287
>Super Hanyuu is set up as evil as fuck in the end so we'll see.

She's not necessarily evil. She just wants the truth, even if that means appointing Bern as the GM.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Remember how Bern basically got rid of all the bullshit, like Natsuhi's delusions. If she can do that with all the lies, that'd help us, the readers, a lot.

>>4060310
That's another thing that confuses me. Featherine saw what was going on, so she had the real life her write it into a story. This could either mean she only saw the first two games, or she saw all of them.
It's probably best to just wait for a translation.

>>4060316
Episode 7 is going to be a total trollfest on Bern's part, I'll bet. She'll reveal the truth, but in doing so she'll probably make everyone look like fucking bastards.

>>4060276
That was his previous enterprises from when Natsuhi wasn't nannying him, to establish doubt on how he had gotten the funding he needed for his latest project, no?

>>4060330
*but the way that she does so will probably

>>4060316
>If she can do that with all the lies, that'd help us, the readers, a lot.

I'm scared to see what's behind all of the delusions and the lies. Shkanontrice obviously but I don't want to see more hideousness.

>>4060303
but it makes me facepalm when I try to put Umineko in a literary perspective. Self-referential characters which function not only as deus ex machina and (otherwise) plot-breaking icons of amazing powerlevels just...gives me a headache.

>>4060330
>>4060316
I'm all for that, but isn't that what Erika tried to do, but failed miserably? Bern isn't exactly the most loving character, so I don't see how she can incorporate love into this new game. She might, just because she really wants to destroy Beatrice, but it's still a little far fetched.

>>4060330
Maybe Bern will play it as a classic murder mystery. That would be cool.

No magic, no red text, all perspectives are reliable. Final destination.

>>4060349
Fuck, I'd read the hell out of that, it would be a welcome change from the soap opera Umineko has become.

>>4060342
>I don't see how she can incorporate love into this new game

You still think Umineko is about love? We don't need love to see the truth, we never needed love to see the truth. Shkanontrice is proof of that.

>>4060312
>>4060316
She was feasting on entrails or some shit as she talked to Bern, so I don't think we're exactly supposed to see her in a positive light.

>>4060349
I think that might be too hard for ryukishi, though; he's not exactly the best of writers, though he is a very conscious one.

>>4060358
5/10, not sure if troll.

>>4060360
what?!

>>4060358
But I thought the reason Erika failed was because she neglected to use love in her game, and therefore just picked the easiest suspect.

>>4060360
...Haggis?

http://lijianliang.livejournal.com/7057.html#cutid1
Read this you fags. Tohya did not "make up" the stories, she saw them through Battler's perspective and then wrote them down. Also, I don't see how you could say that "only 1 and 2 actually happened" when quite clearly only 1 scenario is the true one.

>>4060360
watanagashi reference.

>>4060377
WHY DONT YOU POST THIS EARLIER FFFFFFFFFFFFF

>>4060388
This was already linked to. Might have been in /a/ though.

"Even with love, there are still some things that simply can't be seen."

Hmmm.....

>>4060401
Perhaps what R07 thinks love is and the rest of us think of love is just too different.

Or "With love, you create shitty, convoluted plots."

>>4060358
Eh. Maybe for the who, and the how, but at least for the why you need love. Just a little bit at least? I don't know anymore.

>>4060401
>>4060407
Well, Dlanor said that "love" was also the love between the writer and reader of a mystery. I'm guessing what can't be seen is the solution to the epitaph -- coming up with a solution to that doesn't really seem like something that the reader can be trusted to solve. He touched on this in Episode 5 a bit for us Foreign readers, too (Talking about English riddles and such)

>>4060440
>love between the writer and reader of a mystery

Humanity ill needs a lover such as R07.

>>4060462
Well, Umineko is partly a deconstruction of the Mystery genre, so I guess he could play it off as a giant LOL I TROLL U.

>>4060440
well, no one loves Ryukishi, so I'm guessing no one will ever get what he's saying.

>>4060494
One person did, but HE'S DEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAD.

>>4060505
low blow critical

>love between the writer and reader of a mystery

How can he say he loves his readers if he hates virgins?