/jp/ - Otaku Culture

See
>>4039262

Kanon is a guy and Shannon is a girl.

>This is an extremely likely theory and has been for a long time
how about this proof right fucking here

Erika, everyone else, same room, multiple times, etc.

>>4040095
Same closed room where KANON'S BODY FUCKING DISAPPEAR.
Doesn't explain shit.

>>4040095
It is not stated that Kanon is in that room. It is stated that "everyone else" was in that room. Only Shannon was confirmed to be in the other room. Erika's own weapon disguised that point. If "everyone else" simply did not include Kanon, it works.

>>4040099
Have you personally seen their genitalia in canon? One of those is a lie.
>>4040111
Not multiple times. One time, they were indeed in the same room. However, that scene was explicitly proven to be from Meta Battler's perspective, not Erika's. This is because the narrator calls Piece Battler "me", quotation marks included.

>>4040099
Have you personally seen their genitalia in canon? One of those is a lie.
>>4040111
Not multiple times. One time, they were indeed in the same room. However, that scene was explicitly proven to be from Meta Battler's perspective, not Erika's. This is because the narrator calls Piece Battler "me", quotation marks included. This is episode 5.

In episode 6, she is not the detective for most of the episode so that doesn't matter.

I hate shipping. I also hate this THEORY.

I am not against Shkannon but I AM against Shkannontrice.

Leave Beato alone you faggots.

>>4040111

THen how do you explain 16 person limit

It isn't definitive, but the tone of Episode 5 suggests that R07 isn't going to pull bullshit like multiple personalities.

oh, this thread again

>>4040158
The tone of episode 6 suggests he will.

>>4040147
17 person limit, including Erika. But Erika might not exist.

Beatrice is 19 years old. She's not Shannon.

Actually this closed room is easy.
Battler went outside before the closed room was made thank to Kanon that told him what was up.
Kanon went Shannon more and went back with George and the other, Battler went somewhere else.
Afterward when Erika destroyed the closed room with George and the others, Shannon went Kanon mode and back to the "closed room" that should have had Battler.
She broke the closed room and went to hide in the closet.
Erika came and started to search around Kanon now in Beatrice mode just went outside when Erika was in the bathroom.

Here.

>>4040171
Beatrice thinks she is 19 years old, not the same thing.

>In short, he was the 9th victim.

How do you explain that red text?

Well, R07 HAS said that Shannon and George's love is true. Take that for what it is worth, but I think you can STILL have George x Shannon along with Sh/Kanon. Hell, this could be the way for a GOOD END for everyone.
Think about it. With this theory and Jessitrice, you can have everyone happy. Well, in a sick, twisted sort of way.

>>4040179
>Erika came and started to search around Kanon now in Beatrice mode just went outside when Erika was in the bathroom.
Where did the body go?

>>4040201
Kanon's persona died that time.

How do you explain zombie Kanon in episode 2?

>>4040206
Jessitrice is incredibly unlikely due to Beatrice's flashback.

>>4040195
>Beatrice thinks she is 19 years old, not the same thing.
No, it's directly stated that nineteen is an important number, and part of the reason for that is because it's the age of the ruler of the island. Not that the person who is Beato thinks she's nineteen.

>>4040210
Went outside of course, Erika broke her own closed room.

>>4040229
>Went outside of course, Erika broke her own closed room.
Only Battler and Erika left. Confirmed in red.

>>4040206
George is a creepy virgin who can't tell effeminite man from female (Ange's words, not mine). Shkannon has MPD and one of his personalities truly loves George.

>>4040226
How many times must I say it? The flashback doesn't mean anything, because third person pronouns work differently in Japan.

Taken from the other thread:
"EP6
Shannon is in a room
Kanon is in another room
Both existences are confirmed in red at the same time"

>>4040228
Once again, she just has to think she is 19.
The Beatrice that she created from Battler ideal is completely different from how she really is.
The fact that she is older is nothing weird.

And nobody is really 19 on the island.
So either you are one of these pony faggots whot think Beatrice come on the island during the storm on the second day (which has been proved false this episode ) or the 19 thing proves nothing at all.

>>4040250
Not true. It is said in red that Shannon and co are in one room, and it is said that the six "victims" of the first twilight are in their respective rooms, then it is said that "everyone else" is in the room where Kanon is supposed to be. He is never clearly stated in red to be there.

>>4040213
>Kanon's persona died that time.

That's really quite a poor way to cover that line.

>>4040273
Out of curiosity, which room was it that had the window that remained sealed? As it was never stated that the other room's window had also remained sealed, to my knowledge.

>>4040288
Oops, made a mistake, deleted post.

The one that Kanon was supposedly in is the one that was confirmed to be sealed in real. The one that Shannon was in is the one that was not confirmed. In this theory that would mean Kanon is placed in the right room, since Shannon is there.

>>4040288
Oops, made a mistake, deleted post.

The one that Kanon was supposedly in is the one that was confirmed to be sealed in red. The one that Shannon was in is the one that was not confirmed. In this theory that would mean Kanon is placed in the right room, since Shannon is there.

>JeJo
what?

>>4040305
Jello

>>4040305
Jessica x Joshua

>>4040285
The different persona thing is the core of that theory.

>>4040309
It's not "Joshua", it's "Yoshiya". Even if you're going by the Hebrew pronunciation, that would be "Y'hoshua".

>>4040318
Jews spoiling my fun.

>>4040318
Let's romanize it to Joshua, please. Getting caught up in semantics is bad, we have enough arguments as it.

>>4040324
Also, "Jesus" would be "Yeshua".

>>4040318
The hebrew would be Yeshua.

>>4040337
See >>4040336

At one point Jessica is saying Joshua's name while stuttering.

She says Jo in hiirigana, then Joshua in kanji. So it should be Joshua, should it not?

>>4040233
When it was a "closed room", which broke when Erika came and searched the room.
Not before or after, or do you think nobody ever came in that room before?

It only say that Kanon wasn't hiding anywhere.
Which work if Kanon wasn't Kanon anymore but Shannon, who just went outside when Erika was in the bathroom.

So, folks, how do you think the series will end?
At the moment I'm going with the Sh/Kanon Jessitrice combo with a side of bittersweet Meta-Battler ending.

>>4040359
but wasn't Shannon confirmed to be dead before that ?

>>4040366
It won't end

>>4040378
No she wasn't. Shannon does not die in episode 6, at least not in what we are shown.

>>4040366
>Sh/Kanon Jessitrice
MOTHER OF GOD

>>4040392
No, no, I don't mean all four are the same, I mean Jessitrice and Sh/Kanon happening at the same time.
Who do I look like, Xzibit?

In EP5 When they brake the window to Kinzo's room Battler, Kanon and Shannon are in the same place

ShKannon and even ShKannontrice has been discussed to deatha lready.

I feel that there are still important details being skipped over by /jp/ like the inscription on the chapel, multiple Beatrices, where the fuck Maria came from, and why Hideyoshi and Genji are two of the most pointless characters ever.

Jessitrice was denied this episode.

>>4040131
Wasn't everyone in the same room when Erika revealed that Natsuhi was the culprit?

>>4040404
Mostly because we're against this retarded theory, and people keep bringing it up whenever we try to discuss something else.

>>4040378
Well Beatrice mode then.
Anyways the "only Kanon, Battler and Erika went inside or out of the room" red only works when it's a closed room

>>4040419
Well so far nobody brought any strong arguments against it nor did anybody wrote a theory that could explain most everything like it.

You guys should formulate some solid theories, otherwise this one won't stop.

>>4040409
see
>>4040247

It was not denied. Not in the slightest.

>>4040417
Yes, but still, whenever Kanon and Shannon are seem together it is not from a detective's perspective, this includes Erika. Much of that scene is done in what appears to be third person, but is actually Meta Battler's perspective. Erika rarely narrates anything. This is a large contrast with Battler who often very narrates scenes in 1-4. This might ironically make Battler the better detective.

>>4040417
Yes, but still, whenever Kanon and Shannon are seemingly together it is not from a detective's perspective, this includes Erika. Much of that scene is done in what appears to be third person, but is actually Meta Battler's perspective. Erika rarely narrates anything. This is a large contrast with Battler who often very narrates scenes in 1-4. This might ironically make Battler the better detective.

>>4040247
Jessica and Battler are pretty direct to each other.

>>4040450
And I don't think he would say YOU'RE MY TYPE JESSICA MY PERFECT GIRL to her.

>>4040417
Stated that only the scenes that are narrated by the detective can be trusted.
Battler narrated this scene in episode 5, he wasn't the detective.

>>4040450
Doesn't matter, it doesn't mean that him using her name in the third person means he's not talking to her. Heck, he's a kid when he's doing that, using third person pronouns as a kid is very common in Japan. So I don't see why people keep on insisting it was "denied", because it wasn't.

>>4040453
Or would he?

>>4040437
Throughout the past few days, several MAJOR holes in the theory were pointed out, but each time the supporters just went 'HERP DERP Red text is word play" or some such or just ignored it in its
entirety.

>>4040453
Wait. Why would Battler say that girls like Jessica were his type back when he was 12? Did she have large breasts back then?

>>4040453
Really? You need to watch more harem animu, that exact kind of line happens all the dang time!

>>4040470
Red text is word play. Even gold text is as episode 6 proves.

Shkanon isn't the answer simply because it's incredibly lame and stupid, even if it makes sense.

>>4040475
He said he liked informal girls because he was himself. Jessica's like that.

Battler is a sick kid....

>>4040484
I wouldn't put it past R07.

>>4040470
Actually no major holes were pointed out.
And the wordplay is a fucking matter of fact, R07 has been using it extensively.
Denying the red text wordplays is denying the fucking narrative of Umineko.

>>4040453
Well, with that said, was the flashback one Battler had or one Beato had? Neither would disprove Jessitrice, but I heard it's a flashback one of the new Beato has as to why she likes Battler right before she helps save him from Erika.
If that is indeed the case, it being Jessica actually fits, because HEY IM JESSICA AND HE SAYS HE LIKES PEOPLE LIKE ME DAW.
Food for thought, I suppose.

>>4040495
I would.

>>4040506
Beatrice was created to be Battler's ideal woman. If Jessica is already so close to his ideal woman then why would she need to create Beatrice?

>>4040495
>>4040509
I would too. R07 is extremely self-aware about his work; there's no way he'd pull something so 3rd-rate.

>>4040470
The problem is, there's no real way to explain how Kanon could escape from the sealed rooms rooms in the guesthouse and rescue Battler without using the idea that Shannon = Kanon.

Point 1: Kanon was never explicitly stated to be in the second room in red. It was only said that "everyone else" was in that room.
Point 2: The seal on the window of the room Kanon was supposedly in was the only one of the two to be confirmed in red to have remained sealed. The window of the first room was never confirmed to have remained sealed.

There's no reason why Ryukishi wouldn't deliberately confuse an issue simply to /have/ two plausible scenarios. We know he's a troll.

>>4040527
You can't say he didn't warn you. Clues are all over the place, most notably that Battler never sees them together in 1-4.

>>4040527
> 3rd-rate
Go back to your worst-possible-Fragment, Erika.

>>4040523
Beatrice isnt even a busty woman (VN) how can she be perfect for him ?

>>4040544
One massive red herring. This is the dirty trick Ryu07 was talking about that would go into the later episodes.

>>4040554
Someone seems to be forgetting a certain line about cowtits.

>>4040554
She is though, in the VN, even though it doesn't look so much like it. In episode 4 when Battler meets "Beato" on the balcony, he's like "What if I said I like lolis with long black hair?" She responds with something like "Lies, you breast sommelier! Blonde and bouncy, right? Am I not truly the embodiment of your ideal?"

Ryu will troll us all wont he ?

>>4040538
>>4040544
Well where is the other plausible scenario?
Or do you think R07 is such a genius that he could have us like this?

Oh and another thing to add for the whole ShKanon thing.
Remember the blue truth that killed Kinzo?
"Among all the people there, not one had multiple names"
Kinzo couldn't say it in red, neither Beatrice.
Or the name inheritance with Kanon who almost killed Beatrice?

>>4040558
I think the episode 5 scene was his red herring. R07 even said he used a dirty trick in episode 5 that was originally supposed to be in episode 3. I think the identity of the narrator could be that trick. After episode 5, nobody believed Shkannon, even though plenty of people pointed out the scene wasn't narrated from Erika's point of view.

>>4040579
Thing is, though, even if Shannon and Kanon were two different people, that would still apply. They both have their work names and their real names.

>>4040594
Why would it be so powerful if it was only that though?

>>4040571
I think this also might hint the one he met was the one whose memory we see in episode 6.

>>4040523
Dude, the Jessitrice theory doesn't state that Beato came into being because Jessica wanted Battler to like her, it stated that Beato came into being because Kinzo raped the shit out of her.

>>4040571
> Am I not truly the embodiment of your ideal?
OH

GOD

FUCKING

DAMMIT

IT WAS THERE ALL ALONG

>>4040626
Which is wrong as stated in episode 6.
Beatrice is the Battler's ideal.

>>4040627
Wait, wait, wait, what does this mean, and what theory does it support?

>>4040626
Jessica was raped by Kinzo ? Oh goddamnit

>>4040636
Hm? How so? Stated in red?

>>4040638
>>4040639
There is no proof whatsoever that Kinzo raped Jessica you know.

>>4040626
I know. But in EP6 we find out that Battler created Beatrice because of what he said to her. Beatrice = Shannon is more likely since we know for sure he told Shannon he'd come back for her on a white horse and it was Shannon who was his first love.

>>4040647
You need THAT to be stated in red?

>>4040571
that could well be jessica.

im confus....

>>4040639
Considering the so called evidence Erika had of sexual activity going on in that room which she blamed on Natsuhi, then Kinzo was having sex with somebody on the island.

Would Kinzo rape his own granddaughter.........I wouldn't put it past him.

George is not gay.

>>4040667
Accept that Shannon is Kanon is Beatrice and the confusion will go away, I promise.

>>4040627
I went and found the actual scene, by the way. Pretty close to what I said.

>>4040657
Yes, yes I do. Because Beatrice is KINZO'S IDEAL, he pretty much went batshit crazy about her, after all. Which gives credit to Jessitrice, after all. Sure, now it's META-Battler's idea now(lol Kinzo 2.0), but I'm talking on the gameboard.

>>4040677
what evidence? are you talking about ep6 or ep5? in ep5 there was no evidence whatsoever

>>4040678
Of course he is, and Eva's great plan for him to carry on the family line is fucked up irredeemably, causing her to completely lose the plot.

>>4040681
>Kanon is Beatrice
why ? what ? this is too much...

>>4040690
The ideal thing, wait a sec here, this is where she is ranting about Kinzo raping the shit out of her, remember?
So I am a bit hesistant to believe that Beato came to be out of desire to fulfill BATTLER'S ideal, because it's pretty much a fact that Beato is the fulfillment of KINZO'S ideal.
Hell, episode four is a big clue towards Jessitrice, in that sense. He rapes the shit out of her because he's the fulfillment of his ideal.

>>4040586
But wouldn't that be violating the whole trust between the reader and writer thing? He gives us the Knox rules, then finds a fucking stupid loophole around them.

all the moral faulty are on battler as stated in ep3. you can't have jessica being beatrice because kinzo raped her. if it has to be anyone that would be battler.

>>4040713
>he's
Meant to say she's.
But I wouldn't put it past Kinzo to rape a boy.

>>4040723
>ep4

>>4040722
Episode 5 lacked love, you know it was stated many times.

>>4040713
It's shortly after she says the stuff about Kinzo, but she's talking about Battler's ideal.

>>4040693
Except when Erika said there was, when she concocted the whole Natsuhi X Kinzo theory. As a detective, what she finds out has to be unbiased, even if there's no practical way for her to actually obtain such evidence. (knowing how dedicated she is, I really don't want to know)

Hey guys, if you wanna watch ep6, come to /teapartyofcertainty/old

>>4040751
Everyone should have read it already.

>>4040723
Jessitrice makes MORE sense than ever with Battler's sin in the mix. Without Battler going to the island, Jessica wouldn't have her repressed memories triggered, and everything would be hunky-dory. But because of his "sin"(of forgetting a small promise to her, he's like 12, it's not like he raped her or anything), he triggers this shitstorm.

Picture related, could be him in the middle of triggering a shit storm.

is anyone actually sane in this family ?

>>4040773
Krauss is stupid, but sane. Rudolf is sane. Hideyoshi is sane. Battler is sane, at least before he becomes Meta Battler. That's about it, I think.

>>4040746
again, are you talking about EP5? in EP5 she knew full well that kinzo was dead long before the crime (actually shown to be one whole year) and she did that only to frame Natsuhi and force that reality onto the fragment.

>>4040773
Gohda. He's a little bit of a showoff at times, but when all the servants are treated better than you are, you almost have a right to.

>>4040757
The promise wasn't made to Jessica. If so, the scene on the beach wouldn't make any sense. If it was indeed something between Battler and herself, she wouldn't ask Shannon to recite a potential clue. It'd have to come out of her own mouth.

>>4040757
Funny thing is that Kinzo also uses that style of speech when he enters the family conference in EP 4.

>>4040757
>IT'S BEEN SIX YEARS IT'S BEEN SIX YEARS PLEASE COME SIX YEARS

Are you guys all stupid? Erika already solved it. Natsuhi killed everyone.

>>4040832
Then Battler solved it again, but his truth was shinier.

>>4040784

>Battler is sane

Explain piece Battler's maniacal laughing at the very end of the game in Ep 5, then.

>>4040757
She seems normal to me. We know she's obsessed with Kanon.

There really aren't enough hints for Jessitrice but there are plenty for Shannontrice.

And the new Beato is kind of like Shannon.

>>4040848
He doesn't maniacally laugh. He just says it's useless. Natsuhi takes this as meaning Battler is the man from 19 years ago, and clearly we are supposed to, as well. But usually on the gameboard when he says that, it's because he thinks everyone is suspecting someone for no good reason, and there's an explanation. In fact, he does the exact same thing in episode 1. Eva is accusing Natsuhi of killing Kinzo, Battler says it's useless and gives the explanation that Kinzo hid under the bed. Perhaps he's about to reveal all the deaths were faked and it was supposed to be a prank, but someone took it too far. He probably doesn't know someone took it way too far, because the one claiming to be the man from 19 years ago actually killing Krauss.

>>4040852
>And the new Beato is kind of like Shannon.
That's a good point, she's more like Shannon than any other character. And she's supposed to be Beato before "1000 years" but that can also be just "6 years" as episode 6 shows.

>>4040852
and Beato did say she was the Ushiromiya's furniture. Why would Jessica say something like that?

>>4040894
Because she has to do whatever her parents say

>>4040918
I highly doubt that.

>>4040918
You have to admit Shannon is far more fitting. Jessica is only brought up because she looks like her.

>>4040894
Because Kinzo raped the shit out of her, duh. The idea is that the trauma caused her mind to break. The Jessica persona isn't "aware" of the Beatrice persona, that's why Battler going onto the island fucks everything up.

>>4040926
Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice is a little too ridiculous for me to swallow

Jessica is a completely normal teenage girl. I don't know why you guys are trying to make her Beatrice. It doesn't make any sense.

>>4040921
There's also the whole 'successor to the family legacy' thing. Ange didn't like it, I doubt Jessica did either. Which is why she created another identity at school in order to escape things.

>>4040926
...And the only reason she looks like Jessica is because Battler said he likes blondes with big breasts.

Anyone have a link to the ost from ep6 in mp3 form?

>>4040852
>And the new Beato is kind of like Shannon.
Except not even a little bit. At all.

>this thread

Jessitrice and Shannontrice are horrible theories guys, stop it.

>>4040942
the person who made Beatrice does know about the Beatrice persona but they separated or somthing

"From now on, you are no longer me"
"From now on, I am no longer you"

>>4040967
And that's why we are getting a Battler hobo end because Shannon loves George now and Jessica loves Kanon. Battler gets no one ;_;

>>4040956
If anything, she's most like loli Beato from the dream/flashback at the beginning of Episode 3. Though said flashback only brings up more questions...

>>4040967
They also talk about how they can see Beatrice.

>>4040950
Because she IS a completely teenage girl. Because she says Kinzo is alive in all four episodes, indicates that she spoke to him, where she should know he is dead. Because Natsuhi and Krauss are pretty damn innocent, and because of her phone call to Battler in episode 4. She, along with Kyrie, tell her about the magic shenanigans. She is suspicious, highly so. Her "lover", Kanon, which made up half of her damn character, is coming under heat now. There's more to her, and it's blatantly obvious.

>>4040985
Jessica is not a culprit. She just lies when her parents tell her to and that's all.

>>4040985
Thing is, in Episode 6, dress-Beatrice started disappearing when Kanon was shot by Shannon. Both of their essences were absorbed by Shannon.

>>4040985
Don't force your shit theories down on us, jessicafag.

There are still more hints for Shannontrice than Jessitrice or Beatrice being someone else.

>>4041003
And judging by episode 5, Krauss and Natsuhi would have told Jessica Kinzo was really dead.

>>4041012
>Thing is, in Episode 6, dress-Beatrice started disappearing when Kanon was shot by Shannon. Both of their essences were absorbed by Shannon.
Because they were both furniture in the love trial. All the furniture was going to vanish into the victor to make up one "complete" soul.

>>4041003
Oh, yes, she would lie when people are being killed, THAT makes sense.
She wouldn't hold back critical information such as Kinzo being dead when she was told most her family had died, literally died, and she could too. Nice try, but that won't cut it.

>>4041026
You're not thinking enough. WHY does furniture have to be like that? WHY must two be destroyed for one to be able to be with the person they love?

>>4041012
In which case, again, all the persona-switching nonsense being proposed for Battler's escape from the closed room doesn't make sense.

>>4041028
People lie when they are killed.

I can begrudgingly accept Shannon = Kanon.

I can begrudgingly accept that there is no person who is not one of the 16/17 that is Beatrice.

And I can begrudgingly accept that Jessica pretends to be Beatrice.

I cannot accept, however, that the ending will be Muliple Personality Maid, where she multitasks useless moe Shannon, grimdark Kanon, and Beatrice. That's just going one step too far for me.

>>4040985
I can't support Jessitrice. Really, it's odd how someone screams at Maria, denies magic and has no interaction with this 'Beatrice' entity in Episode 1-5. I doubt Jessica is adopted or Beatrice's child as well. Natsuhi already went through a ton of crap with the baby given to her, why go through that again?

Even though we're provided evidence, you can't disregard how certain characters in a given situation. All that wouldn't be rammed in our head for so long.

>>4041041
Dohoho

>>4041050
Don't worry, no one REALLY believes in Sh/kannontrice bra. Note well how the B0MB threads stopped a few days ago, the trolls have found a new toy.

>>4041050
Same here

>>4041028
She doesn't necessarily have to know that Kinzo is dead, it is more likely that she was also tricked by her parents.

>I cannot accept, however, that the ending will be Muliple Personality Maid, where she multitasks useless moe Shannon, grimdark Kanon, and Beatrice. That's just going one step too far for me.

Unlike kind nurse Miyo, obsessive legend hunter Miyo and 100% DROOPY Miyo?

>>4040985
she didn't mention how she saw him face to face. just that he was mad and shut himself in.
for all we know, that would well mean she's be deceived by her parents as well.

>>4041028
And what if Krauss told her to, begged her to, because it was the only way they would survive this disaster and the murders were actually a perfect opportunity to say Kinzo disappeared? Jessica was the first one to be talked to on the phone, and she was supposedly talking to Krauss. But there's no telling what was really said in that conversation.

>>4041040
The deaths of Kanon and Beatrice there were just as real as the deaths of Kyrie, Rosa, Maria, Natsuhi, and Eva that we witness. In other words, not very.

>>4041039
>You're not thinking enough. WHY does furniture have to be like that? WHY must two be destroyed for one to be able to be with the person they love?
You're the one who isn't thinking. Ridiculous to use fantasy to "confirm" a theory, then discard what actually happens. In fantasy, Shannon was the last one standing. She should have the ability or inclination to switch personalities like flipping a lever after that point.

Yet according to Shkannonfags, for some reason, knowing Battler needs help, she henshins into Kanon, runs to the room, then henshins into Beato and vanishes.

>>4041050
Same. Actually I don't think I can accept Shannon and Kanon always being the same person. Wouldn't Krauss and Natsuhi know they only had 4 servants? They had to have been separate at one time.

>>4041095
They know they're the same person but they have to go along with it because they fear that if they don't, out of spite, Shkannon would reveal Kinzo is dead?

>>4041080
I hated shit, so I hope we don't get a Ryukishi repeat.

>>4041108
then why is there 5 master keys, one for each servant, if there's only 4 servants?

>>4041064

Well, here's the situation. You must remember that there is fantasy! Beatrice, who is just a fantasy explanation for events, nothing more, and then there is the occasional PIECE Beato, who is really there. Now, it's OBVIOUS why Jessica wouldn't interact with piece Beato, mainly because she WOULD BE piece Beato. As to her never interacting with fantasy Beato, she takes a stake in the back, after all. But reading in between the lines is essential, and episode 4 convinced me of Jessitrice. Isn't it funny how Jessica was "revived" after she "died", and that she called Battler? If nothing else, that makes her suspect, wouldn't you agree?

if kanon=shanon, would that lower the head count?
it was stated that no more than 17 exists, and according to knox's you can't have mysterious person X pretending to be either shanon/kanon.
the theory that two of them switch roles at times seems more plausible...

>>4041124
Because Beatrice didn't want to reveal things at that point. Episode 6 shows that the game master actually has complete control over the game board, with the only limitation being that there MUST be a method via which the events could be performed via human means. Or something like that.

>>4041124
What about the explanation that Shannon and Kanon were once seperate people, but shortly before the conference one of them died and now one of them is acting as both? Or, there are five master keys so one can be carried around when Shkannon is Shannon, and another for when they are Kanon. Because someone might notice the same wear and tear on a single key that for some reason both are using, or something? Better to be safe than sorry.

>>4041134
Don't you find it strange that Fantasy Beato clearly has something against Shannon while she doesn't seem to care about Jessica at all.

>>4041134
No more suspect than Kyrie's phone call, made while Kyrie was supposedly being shot at by the Siestas.

>>4041148
What evidence is there that one of them died?
Otherwise, that guy's X=Kumasawa=* is just as valid.

>>4041080
At least she didn't have three different names, brah.

>>4041142
It would be open to interpretation with the red.

A person who considers a head count being "Something with a sentient personality", for instance, could say there are 17 people. A person who simply considers headcount to be human beings on the island, 16.

That's the theory, at least. We all know how flexible the red is.

>>4040366
I think we all know how Umineko will end.

Ryukishi07 is such a troll.
The only way to solve Umineko is to make retarded, abstract theories you would never want to see in the first place
and which would make you rage if any author actually pulled that shit.

I guess it's his revenge for all the criticism Higurashi's end recieved, now he's trying to show us how hard it is to make a decent ending
once a story turned into a giant clusterfuck.

>>4041152
...Actually, if you think about it with regards to Shkanontrice, Beato's rage at Shannon in Episodes 2 and 3 starts making a lot of sense.

>>4041160
Then the two seperate keys just in case works.

>>4041163
She had two different names, though. Takano Miyo was the second name she used.

>>4041152
what she has against shanon (and again that's piece beato) is that shanon has found love while she didn't/couldn't.
this greatly suggests jessitrice because jessica knows how happy shanon is and is secretly jealous.
also in ep5 shanon knows natsuhi likes fall

>>4041189
Especially the "Don't talk to me about love, you furniture."

>>4041205
>also in ep5 shanon knows natsuhi likes fall
Big deal, the trick there was pretty obvious. The guy who did it hid 4 cards throughout the room.

>>4041218
and how did he direct natsuhi to the one under the phone?
regardless, beatrice can't be shanon as you can't hate yourself

>>4041232

...By telling her to lift up the clock?

What's so hard about this

>>4041232
It was under the clock, actually. And it was easy. He goes, "what's your favorite season"? She says it's fall. He says that's his too. Natsuhi tells him not to bullshit, that he would have said that regardless of which one she said. Then, he says he'll prove it and tells her to lift up the clock on her table, she finds the fall card.

He could have directed her to another location where one of the other 3 cards was hidden.

Anyone have a clue as to what Kanon meant by, "I'm not furniture anymore...I'm the zero on your roulette!"

>>4041232
You can if the person you hate is the one who created you with the intention of you loving someone who the original can no longer love, and then the person you're supposed to love never shows up for six years, and in that timeframe the original falls in love with someone else.

...Wait. Considering the comments by Shannon and Kanon about being "created" by their father, and the fact that new!Beatrice refers to Battler as her father... is it possible that there was actually a fourth personality that was the original personality, but ended up dividing itself into three new ones after certain interactions with Battler? I didn't express that very well, but...

>>4041266
"The winner won't be Shannon or Beatrice, it will be me! I wuv Jessi-sama~"

>>4041267
>fourth personality
Oh for fucks sake, please be wrong.

What is this, Change 123?

>>4041267
The reason that Beatrice calls Battler honorable father is because she was created as a piece and has no memories of the 'Beatrice' Battler loved.

She feels obligated to call him that. It's not in the same sense that Shannon/Kanon are referring to. They aren't blood related, but they could be talking about Kinzo.

Hey guys

Shkanon and Shkanon= beato doesn't even matter if it's true

it doesn't change kyrie culprit

No one can explain why Shannon would suddenly switch to a Kanon persona and go let Battler out, then switch to another persona. Why not just go open the room as Shannon?

>>4041285
Hey, I like that manga. It's pretty cool.

...Though I find it kind of funny that you would mention that manga, considering that additional personality is referred to as "Zero". inafterroulette

>>4041298
They are talking about Kinzo. It's a reference to the episode 2 fantasy interpretation that Shannon, Genji and Kanon were physically made by Kinzo.

>>4041314
It very well could be. That's just a crack theory of mine.

>>4041304
Because Shannon-chan isn't the hero type. Kanon is, he is always shown to be fighting against Beatoriiche.

I hate Jessica because she's fucking impossible to understand with ATLAS.

UZEZE

As long as it isn't a hobo end, I can manage somehow.

>>4041323
>Because Shannon-chan isn't the hero type. Kanon is, he is always shown to be fighting against Beatoriiche.
Shannon also constantly fights against Beatrice. Plus, there is no way for Shannon to know "Kanon" is the only one to move freely.

What's strange is that orphanage where Kinzo takes all his better servants from. Episode 5 mentions more of them, like Runon and whatever-on. I'm betting my hand that this orphanage is important.

>>4041187
This, I more or less gave up on solving Umineko as all possible theories are just ridiculous.
The red truth is probably one of the worst ideas ever, for me it kills most of the fun when trying to solve it.
Umineko would have been better if Ryu07 simply stated "This game follows the Knox decalogue" in ep2, made the game 4 episodes long and that's it.
It has become way too convulted recently, trying to somehow fit a theory into the mess of red truth is just annoying.
The only entertaining thing about Umineko now are the happenings in the meta world, nobody even gives a damn about the game world anymore, not even Ryu07 himself, hence why he skips half of it.

>>4041340
Are ya' Angreh?

>>4041361
How about this. Who they really are, whether Kanon or Shannon, or both, is up to the interpretation of the one saying the red. Therefore, it's not that Shannon switches between personalities in the room, it's that Beato switches between saying Shannon and Kanon.

>>4041375
I care about the game world. ;_;

>>4041366
I wouldn't be surprised if it's the starting point for the whole epitath riddle.

Also, the fact that most servants leave after a few years with a good recommendation to work elsewhere. Shannon's been working there for over 6 years. Why is she still sticking around on the island? George, or something else?

> Plus, there is no way for Shannon to know "Kanon" is the only one to move freely.
And how would Shannon or Kanon know that Battler needed to be rescued in the first place?

Basically, the whole point of the stuff at the end of Episode 6 was to create a scenario where it was possible for Erika's statements and Battler's statements to all be satisfied with the end result being Battler not being present in the room.

Is there a list of all the red text for 6 somewhere?

>>4041397
>I wouldn't be surprised if it's the starting point for the whole epitath riddle.
What? Wouldn't that make the orphanage Kinzo's homeland? But that doesn't make any sense, he was part of the Ushiromiya family, he wouldn't be an orphan.

>>4041397
>I wouldn't be surprised if it's the starting point for the whole epitath riddle.

I thought this was already confirmed.

Reasons why I personally dislike this theory.

1. It requires the murderer to have one or more mental illnesses, which I just don't buy.
2. It fucks with every pairing that hasn't already gotten married.
3. It's too much like Higs.
4: It's way way too complicated and out there. Actually try explaining someone having three personalities and living them all out in a way that makes sense.
5. It has holes in it that just don't make sense. (for example, they are counted as two people for numbering, and one person for numbering, when it's convenient for the theory, and assorted others)
6. Thematically, I don't like it.
7. There is nothing achieved by them being one person that's not by them just being a pair of murderers.

>>4041405
Not yet.

>>4041409
Why do so many people make the assumption that this theory requires Shkannontrice to be the culprit?

>>4041409
inb4 your post is ignored.

>>4041405
You won't get far because most of Battler's red text is
>>>/rs/Yup

>>4041400
>And how would Shannon or Kanon know that Battler needed to be rescued in the first place?
Beato said in red that it's definitely possible their purpose in going to the room and opening it wasn't specifically to "rescue" Battler. Which is as good as admitting there was another reason to open the door. What's weird is the "taking the place" aspect.

>>4041245

Umm..Doesn't Natsuhi lie and say Summer, an then he says "no, you lie, it's fall"?

>>4041375
I'm the opposite, I only care about the game board and the mystery.

I don't even want the meta world to exist after everything is solved, I'm not a fan of such fantastical things in my murder mysteries, although I would only have myself to blame for choosing to read this in spite of that.

The story never harps on this the way it does on the red text, but sober Battler's observation is absolutely sacred or else there's almost no truth to go on. The thing that made Shannon=Kanon so interesting was that Battler never saw them together, which, while not totally impossible, wasn't terribly likely. Battler saw them together, they're different people, the end.


And I'm perfectly happy to trade that for knowing that Shannon was in on the plot to frame Natsuhi, assuming those "man from 19 years ago"-related, Natsuhi-only scenes aren't lies. Shannon and probably Kanon have plenty of pretty fucked up stuff about them still hidden.

Can we go back to mysterious person X ?
Only thing needed is that someone dies/leaves the island before Erika appears and the number of people there is established.

>>4041429
No, she just tells him that it's fall.

>>4041429
Nom that doesn't happen.

>>4041447


...You sure about that? You might wanna read it again.

>>4041409
As much as there are reasons to not like it, there is evidence that it's true.
-No detective ever describes Kanon and Shannon being together from their viewpoint.
-Kanon's corpse always disappears. No detective has ever seen Kanon's corpse.
-Kanon's is said to be silent as a cat and suddenly disappears often when someone walks up to Shannon and Kanon talking.
-Conversations with Kanon and Shannon could very well be interpreted as two parts of one psyche.
-Episode 6 presents a closed room that Shkannon solves, so far I've seen no other explanation for it.
-In episode 6, saying Shannon and Kanon are in two seperate rooms is conveniently avoided.
-Shannon and Kanon are for some reason unable to both find happiness. If Shannon marries George, Kanon can't be with Jessica. If Kanon is with Jessica, Shannon can't be with George. Makes no sense.
-They live symbiotically. Sleep in the same room, the same bed.
-They're the same age.

>>4041429
No, the guy says "you have Summer in your name, but what's your favorite?"

She answers honestly the first time.

>>4041429
They talk about summer because of Natsuhi's name. Natsu is summer in Japanese.

>>4041453
No, you might want to. She says it's fall, he says fall is his favorite to.

>>4041409

Takano obviously had a mental illness.

Face it, Takano was a wtf culprit just like Umineko's will be.

>>4041453
He says to Natsuhi that her name has "summer" in it (Natsu), then asks her her favorite season. She says fall, because you can spend the time taking it easy, doing nothing. Read it again.

>>4041503

>Takano obviously had a mental illness.

No, she had a BRAIN PARASITE.

>>4041503
well fuck

>>4041455
Also, according to the anime, they're the same height. Take that with a grain of salt, though.

>>4041503
>Face it, Takano was a wtf culprit just like Umineko's will be.

At least you could tell it was Takano by, what, the third arc?

...Not that I'm complaining no one can still figure out a perfect culprit(s?) for Umineko. I find these discussions very amusing.