/jp/ - Otaku Culture

The culprit is small bombs

the obvious conclusion is that someone spiked everyone's meal the first night which resulted in the deaths of pretty much everyone.

There are 2 bombs.

Why are people trolling with this bullshit?

>What is the signification of the meta-world?

Old and obvious stuff I thought about since before.

A basic explanation for it would be, Beatrice is telling Battler a story. She is an unreliable narrator. There are inconsistencies and faults. That is why it's a mystery.

Battler (the audience) calls bullshit on some points. Challenges the author of the tale. The different colored texts are just ways of providing information to Battler.

It's a metaphor for the relationship between Audience and Author in a story.


Each gameboard is basically just a retelling/reimagining of the same story. Since it is a story, concepts such as Knox's decalogue and other literary conventions can be used as weapons.

Breaking through the Beatrice's game can be likened to, literary analysis. Presenting hypothesis gathered from impressions and conclusions drawn from the text. The only difference is, Battler is actually talking to the author, that's why his theories can be shot down again and again, until he reaches the Truth of what Beatrice is trying to say.

So it's kinda like a long interview/debate session with the author of a certain book, and that certain book details the massacre of your family.

This is what I gained from EP 1-4.

I don't know how the fuck I'm going to fit Hanyuu into this yet. But I will. I certainly will, when I get my translation.


EP5

Beatrice, the Author of the game can no longer participate. Enter Lambdadelta and Bernkastel, they take Beato's story and start to tell it themselves, while supposedly keeping the same themes and motifs Beatrice used intact. So it's kinda like Brian Herbert taking over the Dune universe.

Some thoughts on Beato's story. Did she ever mean to have a Detective who can go about using the Detective's Authority in her games? For EP 1-4, being the detective simply meant a reliable POV, not hyper powers of analysis and observation.

>>4038032
Are you asking do we believe that Beatrice intended to have someone stay up all night listening to Battler breathing?

B0MB

[EP1]

* No one saw the moment he was stabbed by the stake
* Hard to confirm the blood and wound in the dark boiler room.
* No one confirmed the corpse after Nanjo proclaimed his death.

[EP2]

* Should've been dead, but corpse disappeared.
* Red eyes musou
* Melted away after contacting spider web. Said something.
* The state of "is he really dead? His corpse isn't confirmed"

[EP3]

* Just when you think he finally died properly, he died in the chapel.
* No confirmation as to the key found in the chapel is real or not.
* Somehow appeared in front of the blinded Jessica, and guided her around.
* After that, Battler deduction show ->"You are slow on the realization, Battler-kun"

[EP4]

* Corpse can't be found.
* In which, the well was sealed, even though people supposedly came out of it.

[ALL EP]

* No scenes depicting Battler's point of view with the corpse
* A strong pattern of dying after achieving something.

>>4038046

Well. Yes.

I mean, is it really a "proper" mystery if there's no detective snooping around for clues and using his authority to boss people around? I think Ryukishi asked us/himself that question with Umineko.

>Shannon = Kanon

>>4038072

>* No scenes depicting Battler's point of view with the corpse

Is this true? Battler was staring corpses left and right in EP1. Or do you mean, Battler needed to narrate the scene? Him being present is not enough?

>>4038091
Battler doesn't see Shannon's corpse in episode1.
And he doesn't go near Kanon.

>>4038091
that's about Kannon's corpse.

I believe the narrator.
STFU, faggot.

Game is often considered as a game of check.
In this game, there's 16 pieces in each sides.
Just to say.

>>4038100

Odd.

Need to replay the EP again.

For this theory, are you stating that Shkanon crossdresses or that scenes with them (a hell of a lot) are a lie/twisted?

>>4038125
Shannon suffers from DID and has 3 personalities.
Her, Kanon and Beatrice.
That's the theory, well there's a lot more to that but it's a drag to repeat everything again.

Anyways this theory has been argued for a few days, and so far nothing to contradict it, rather it becomes stronger and stronger.

>Is there really a bomb?

Something definitely kills people at 24:00 Oct 5. It can be the malfunctioning boiler room, a series of explosives set up to trigger a landslide or a big bomb. Plausible and doesn't involve complicated science.

However, the problem I have with this is the reasoning used to reach it. It involves translating the Epitaph to english. Would Ryukishi do that, knowing that several translations might be made for a single line?

Unless an alternate line of reasoning, with proper foreshadowing is proposed?

>>4038152
It's been stated several times that Kinzo was heavily influenced by the west.
Look at the name of his children.

Maybe Shannon and Kanon were Siamese twins who were joined at the top of their head. Since they always wear those hats you don't notice it.

>>4038144

So under this. Jessica falls in love with her best friend and is a dyke?

What about Okinawa and the concert scene? People were fawning over Kanon. Was that a lie?

Is she actually crossdressing, or was Beato's narration screwing with us from the start, and there is no Kanon at all? Any points to support/deny?

This is what Shanon and Kanon said before their duel:
"Why were we born?"
"It's better if we die right after being born."
"... That's Father's sin."
"Yes. That's why he should die. Everyone should die."
"Um, everyone'll die soon ..."

>>4038188
Remember the way Kanon was dressed during that scene? That fucking HUGE coat that could hide anything.
And since he is young, him looking like a girl is normal, especially in Japan.

And Kanon is definitely exist, one way or another, his presence is stated in red a lot.
Though his body disappears a lot too.

>>4038199
Rudolf what have yo done!

Question: why in Ep.1 police called Rokkenjima incident a mass murder yet in Ep.4 it's an accident and in Ep.6 explosion is mentioned?

>>4038199
"Father" could be Battler.
Perhaps he is responsible for Shannon's DID.

>>4038217
Probably something like this:
-Oh an explosion, during a huge conference? How could this be an accident? Okay mass murders
And some time later
-Well couldn't find any evidences, accident it is.

How would you guys go about explaining the end of episode 2 with human tricks?

"Battler was delusional after drinking with Beatrice, and she dragged him down to a torture chamber that looked like the main hall of the mansion.

Accomplices wearing goat masks then restrained Battler and sawed off his limbs with various tools such as chainsaws and axes.

Because he was badly drunk, his vision was blurry and he saw more than just a few people wearing goat masks, giving him the illusion he was seeing fifty or so people and that he was being eaten."

>>4038250
Goats = flames, or explosion.
Battler = DRUNK
Put 2 and 2 together.

Y = 0
X = 0
X + Y > 0

>>4038234
It's likely boiler room exploded causing a big fire and possibly a landslide. Because of Maria's diary people started speculating it was a mass murder and explosion was to hide the evidence.

>>4038234
yet the ending is the same for all of them

>>4038217

Good question.

Maybe something happened in EP1 that differentiates it from the others, i.e. Bomb did not go off.

>From a more metaphysical point of view, the person who primed the bomb has created a closed world. Whatever happens in the two days of the family conference, the world outside can never know; the braun tube is in smithereens, so you'll never know if there were little people in it or not. This is why truth within this world is so fluid, and it's why Beatrice can exist as a witch within it. It's coming dangerously close to a fantasy explanation, but perhaps the reason "Beatrice" set the bomb was precisely to create such a world.

A fantasy side explanation and motivation for the Bomb. Might be useful. Multi angled attacks, looking at things from two viewpoints etc.

I'm quite sure we'll get two solutions to the mystery in the end.

>>4038199
>>4038199
Duel? Is this in EP6?

>>4038263
Fucking significant figures.

>>4038250
One theory I've heard is Rosa in actuality shot Battler during their argument in the parlor. That would explain why Rosa and Maria suddenly leave their 'safe zone' and run to the chapel etc. Of course Battle still wanting to know the truth imagined everything from that point onward.

However, one could also argue that, say Rosa discovered that there is in fact a bomb, that would explain why she suddenly ran off and it would in turn also explain when she says "We're not safe anywhere on this island so we have to swim" or something like that.

Ok, even I'm sick of this at this point. We've debated Shkannon to infinity. It's an explination, but it's not one that everyone likes, and creates more holes and requires certain reads of things than you would like to admit.

But no one will ever be convinced one way or another. This is sad.

>>4038263

I still haven't heard an explanation for this.

Why is the riddle and murders immaterial to Beato? By going through this farce, what did she want to achieve? The level of reasoning for this is beyond me, but I'm sure the answer to this important to the Truth.

>>4038286
Thread isn't about ShKanontrice, it's about the other holes.
Like the bomb or Battler's sin.

Isn't it said that after the murders and Eva returns to the mainland that she sells some of Kinzo's and the other family members' items in an auction. Unless she was selling exclusively items from Kuwadorian, then the bomb blast can't be big enough to destroy the entire mansion, particularly Kinzo's study.

Maybe I'm retarded and my mind is filling stuff in.

>>4038260
The goats being "fire" makes far more sense than it should.

Ep5 = The Goats are the passageway to Hell.
All other ep = large number of goats swarming all at once.
Ep4 = FUCK YOU FIRE, I AM KRAUSS. KRAUSS PAAANCH

>>4038279
>We're not safe anywhere on this island so we have to swim

The thing is they were away from the mansion by that time. Unless the bomb is a small nuke or something they should be able to get away and escape. I see no reason to swim away from the island if it's just a bomb.

Can I take part in this thread without having Episode 6 spoiled brutally?

>>4038306
Krauss knew about Kuwandorian
Its not know if he ever used it though

http://www.mediafire.com/?ondnzgzdtdc <- Battler sprite pack. Yes, it has the cloak. No, he doesn't have any pointing sprites with the cloak on.
http://www.mediafire.com/?qzmydcmuenz <- The new demons, Auau Featherline-tan, and all of Erika's new sprites. Includes wedding dress of course.

My god.

if u guyz lik umineks s much. y don't iu souvle it >

>>4038323
>small nuke
Now, see, THAT sounds like Kinzo.

Also, NO ONE HAS DISCUSSED THE CHAPEL INSCRIPTION YET. Rosa was VERY INTERESTED in it when she read it.

>>4038323

Forest Fire is torching the whole island?

But this is inconsistent with >>4038306

The 24:00 incident seemed harder than I thought.

>>4038330

We'll try. Just skip things with EP6 in them.

>>4038323

Small Nuke? I wouldn't put it past Kinzo...

Wasn't it stated that Kinzo worked with the army at one point?

>>4038287
>what did she want to achieve?
Her goal is to make Battler remember his sin.

>>4038369

He went to the war, yeah. Maybe he got insane there.

>>4038330

Considering how much EP06 is the reason for the massive resurfacing of Shkannon, I wouldn't recommend it.

does anyone have mp3s of the EP6 BGMs?

>>4038343

So was Kumasawa of all people. She even had pics.

Quadrillion to one. Perhaps it really is Kuwadorian? Or else one of Kinzo's probability schemes. The chapel was for marrying Beatrrice, or so the theory in EP2 goes.

Wait. Kumasawa worked at Kuwadorian right? Hmmmmm.

>>4038199
Battler's sin has something to do with Kanon and Shannon's birth.

>>4038323
I wouldn't put it past Kinzo to have a small nuke on the island.

>>4038369
Imperial Japanese Army yeah, but that was before he struck it rich with Beato.

Which means Beatrice was probably a member of the GHQ, which means she's from the US, which means she probably got her gold from a bank in the US, and all banks are run by Jews. Therefore, JEWS DID ROKKENJIMA.

>>4038346
Could it be possible for there to be a smaller bombs located in the portrait room guest house, and rose garden, and then multiple other bombs scattered about the forest, causing a massive forest fire?

Either way, Kuwadorian is the only safe place on the island near the very end of the murders.

>>4038343
Doesn't Kumasawa also have the inscription written on a picture in her house?

>>4038358
small H bomb, cleaning the house

>>4038390
Kuwadorian was located in the middle of the Woods, right?
So, unless it's located in a huge clearing, it would likely be burnt down in that case as well.

Was Rokkenjima burnt in 1998?

>>4038419
Exact location unknown. Just that it's HIDDEN. So it could very well avoid the explosion for all we know

I'd like to talk more on the inscription above the chapel. Anyone have a pic/copypasta of it?

>>4038337

>No, he doesn't have any pointing sprites with the cloak on.

Goddamnit Ryukishi.

>>4038390

That would be a bitch to set up and wouldn't be too simple. Knox might classify the bomb system as a complicated scientific device.

>>4038389

Beatrice (blonde, blue eyed and bouncy) was a Nazi who coordinated with Kinzo to hide the Axis gold stash. Heard it here first.

I'm not to sure about Shannon = Kanon, but I can say Kanon = Beatrice for sure. Kanon acts way too feminine during the few times he is in Battler's presence.

>>4038390
Nobody would call it an accident if many bombs exploded. Even if just one exploded actually.

It's possible that bomb is hidden in the boiler room and is a very small one. It's explosion just trigger boiler explosion.

But that don't explain why Rosa was running away from the mansion.

Judging by Chiru's OP the bomb completely destroys the island.

>>4038440
but Beatrice is an italian name.......OH GOD

>>4038450
Kuwadorian would still need to remain safe.

>>4038390
>>4038419
>>4038434
This is probably what Ryu was talking about when he said something like "youd need to be able to see the island to figure it all out"

If we assume Kanon=Shannon=Beatrice. Does that mean that Kumisawa(Virgillia) and Genji(Ronove) are accomplices?

>>4038431
No.

It dosent matter if kuwandorian is destroyed or not.
You can be pretty safe in the underground VIP room that the epitath guides you to.

>>4038431
This shouldn't matter much as 12 years is plenty of time for the affected foliage to grow back.

>>4038486
Genji probably is following some master plan that Kinzo made before his death.
Kumasawa definitely know a lot but accomplice would be hard to tell, she may be scared of speaking.

>>4038486
like of course, they've been always suspicious

>>4038496
What about the mansion?

>>4038510
Ange didn't see the mansion at all, I believe.

>>4038459

Beato is a goddamn fascist.

Or Beatrice is CODE NAME. Secret nazi agent Beatrice, hiding nazi and japanese gold in Taiwan, until a chance encounter with a young Japanese man changed her life. Watch as young Kinzo is pulled into a war conspiracy that can change the very fate of the war effort! Will Secret Agent Beatrice finish her mission, or will it degrade into a mad story about trust, love, betrayal and tragedy?!?!?

>>4038499

Kinzo's will in EP2 points to that. It was probably shown out of context, and was created when Kinzo was still alive. Genji might be the one to paint all the magic circles.

>>4038475
Then how is the mystery solvable by Ep. IV?

>>4038519
BLJAKL:SDFJFGL:

BLKF:BD

Sorry. That was me throwing up all over my fucking keyboard.

>>4038528
What? He had a will?

>>4038337
>>4038337
Dlanor puts on GLASSES? That is AWESOME. She is MOE.

>>4038545
I am ripping them as we SPEAK. The nutbladder damage is IMMENSE.

>>4038541
Kinzo definitely left some will-video behind.
That's how he "appeared" in front of everyone in episode 4.
And Genji is following that will.

>>4038556
I just find it...non-fitting and awkward.

>>4038519
FUND IT

>>4038541

Yes.

He dictated it to the One Winged Eagle servants in EP2. I maintain that that scene happened when Kinzo was alive. It even contains the truth about Beatrice, so it would be an invaluable help to the culprit/mastermind.

>>4038557
>the head of the Ushiromiya family appear as a person on the conference.
think about this

It was all the work of nanomachines. This is NOT complicated science.

People in Rokkenjima were controlled by nanomachines. It was all part of a small experiment. Krauss worked with the wrong people, and he and his family ended up being used.

Each nanomachine had an explosive to leave to trace.

In the next episode, five new characters will be introduced.

>>4038586
Not a red text.
Here they are:
-All of those who met at the family conference recognized the existence of Kinzo!
-No person would mistake Ushiromiya Kinzo by sight.
-No matter what the disguise, they would not mistake Ushiromiya Kinzo!

Video fits very well.

>>4038590
... and /jp/ would still read it

>>4038486
And George and Jessica too. My own side theory is that Maria was choosen as the next head by Kinzo before his death, just like in Ep. IV. It wasn't announced and only Kinzo's servants know about it. This create many possibilities for both motives and solutions and also explain new Kinzo in Ep. IV.

>>4038590
Yes, and Maria's father and Asumu will have bodies and faces.

>>4038566
Ah, it fits to me but that's because I imagine her as something of a paper pusher when she's not out eradicating heretics and all that fun stuff.

>>4038606
Lord Goldsmith(Kinzo) is a title
Put a person on Ushiromiya's manly cape and you got yourself a Kinzo.

>>4038610
IN YOUR DREAMS.

The closest thing we'll get to that is a couple more pantsless demons who represent their characters in a more fantasy sense.

>>4038627
Never stated.
What "killed" and managed to hurt Beatrice a lot in episode 4 was the fact that they couldn't repeat in red that:
"Among all the people there, not one had multiple names"

Doesn't say anything about Kinzo or Goldsmith being some kind of title that can be inherited, and there's no proof whatsoever that this is the case.

Now if you consider the above statement from a Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice POV, you'll see why they couldn't repeat it.

>>4038636
can never have enough pantsless demons

>>4038609
why would he pick a 9 year old to be the next family head.

>>4038610
BUT RYUKISHI HAS TO CREATE A DOZEN MORE NEEDLESS DEMONS, WITH SLUTTY ATTIRE AND TERRIBLE EYE BLEEDING COLORS.

oh but we can dream, anon

>>4038643

>>4038643

Of course, we know already that Kanon and Shannon have extra names. Sayo and Joshua.

<_<; The fact that this hurt Beato more than anything doesn't have to mean anything in particular.

Some personification thing:
Bernkastel = Maria's letters
Lambdadelta = THE READER.

Think about it.

>>4038664

No smilies please. It does. It probably means something. It's specifically pointed out and drawn attention too. It's the only time it happens in the Tea Party.

>>4038667

What. If anything, Battler was the Reader, at least for EP 1-4.

>>4038659
>They definitely would not mistake any different person for Kanon
holdontoyourbutts.jpg

>>4038667
So the letters are a troll, and the reader is a lesbian...

...for some reason, I'm okay with this.

>>4038674

>no smileys please

> <_<;

Both of you...Get out

>>4038682
The reader is impartial.
Battler wasn't the reader.

>>4038682
Battler was the Sherlock Holmes
Cousins were the Watson
Beato was the testimonies
The reader is.......us

>>4038685
Just watch as everyone will glaze over this fact.

>>4038688
>...
Get out of here, Mugen.

>>4038656
>why would he pick a 9 year old to be the next family head

He hate all his children and consider them unworthy of family's leadership. He think the same about Battler and Jessica so that leaves only Maria and George.

In Ep. IV Goldsmith said Maria passed his test in a spectacular manner. In the same Ep it's mentioned she was actually a very smart kid if not a genius, it's just that her mind get screwed by Rosa's behavior. And she's interested in occult just like Kinzo.

>>4038723
Its a retarded play on words since they're the same person. Ryu is trolling with his word choice and how he wants the reader to interpret things.

>>4038745
The Ushiromiya family is an economical family, which deals a lot in money and politics. Maria is a 9 year with imaginary friends.

I mean seriously, Kinzo handing over headship to a 9 year old is pure retardation.

>>4037972

Adding a question that needs to be asked.

How was Battler let off the hook for leaving his family and abandoning his name, when he was just fucking 12 years old?! Kinzo/Natsuhi would kick his ass.

>>4038780

How about "The only one who can take Kanon's name is Kanon himself?"

Wordlplay trolling is such a weak argument.

>>4038785
Rudolf probably let him leave, since he was going to be with his grandparents. He knew Battler was major pissed at him, so forcing him to stay would only make him madder.

>>4038795
that's the basis of the red text, wordplaying

>>4038745

Which is exactly why Nanjo is the real head of the family. Kinzo likes him, he never dies in the first twilight, and he knows about his death.

Although I acknowledge Shkanon as a strong theory in terms of mystery, I think that logically it makes no sense, unless the people in Rokkenjima are completely idiotic not to have noticed it in 3 years.

>>4038814
Ryu is a hack writer.

>>4038814

You could just think that all Kanon scenes are a lie concocted by Beato then, instead of crossdressing and such.

I dunno. Still seems flaky that way.

>>4038780
Ok basicaly what she is saying is that if Kannon was disguised as lets see...SHANNON everyone would've noticed.
And remenber that this detective work so leave the personality bullshit to Freud.

Shannon=Kanon is the dumbest theory of all time.

>>4038823
Battler has seen Shannon and Kanon. The people in Rokkenjima acknowledge them as different people.

An argument like white text/unreliable narrator works for the in-game mystery, but logically it makes no sense at all. But, all the same, we'd have rubbish like Natsuhi playing Kinzo without anyone noticing because she was behind a door. Unless Natsuhi has a fuck-ugly voice, or unless Kinzo sounded like a fag, people should have noticed it.

I guess this is when we're supposed to let shit slip.

>>4038823
Does not work that way
Battler sees Kannon in EP 1-4

>>4038783
Krauss or anyone else could serve as marionette head until she grows up. It's not like the Head makes all decisions, Kinzo shut himself from the world for few decades.

>>4038843

Natsuhi never imitated Kinzo's voice. If you're talking about the scene described in Ep 5 about last year's conference, she just made it seem like he was there by saying that he was complaining about the noise.

>>4038849
>Krauss as head
>"NASA" tourism

>>4038849
>Krauss being the head


ahahahaha no.

>>4038795
Easy. It's just referring to Kanon's true name (Joshua, is it?) and not his servant name Kanon.

I don't like the Shkannon thing either, but that sort of wordplay is easy to get around.

>>4038863
Umineko takes place in 80's. Back then people believed we'll have space ships and moon colonies by the year 2000.

>>4038745
Kinzo would more likely give it to Battler. After all Kinzo was forced into being the head, he probably had some respect for Battler's balls and a great way to get revenge agianst Battler's disgrace would be to force Battler into the same situation he himself was in.

>>4038841
Yeah but pretty much everything point to it.
Oh and you forgot the third personality BEATRICE.

>>4038882
except even Natsuhi saw through the scam.

The delusional person saw through the scam.

I'm sorry but if a delusional person can see through it than any person should be able to.

>>4038888

This is what I believe as well. It would be just the sort of spiteful thing Kinzo will do. Plus, the whole parallels between Kinzo and Battler that has been going on since the beginning.

I just find it hilarious that after this is announced a goddamn shootout occurs.

>>4038888
He sees Battler as some incompetent fag who betrayed his family. I just can't imagine him passing leadership to Battler.

>>4038888
>Kinzo probably had some respect for Battler's balls
Hopefully in a different way than Beato and Erika do.

>>4038935
>Hopefully in a different way than the entire female cast
fixed

>>4038947
Let's name the characters that lust after Battler and his fabulous, fabulous junk.

Or, rather, name the ones that don't.

...I'd say Rudolf, but I'm not even sure of that.

>>4038932
WTF are you talking about, the ONLY thing Kinzo has against Battler is that he betrayed his family. Kinzo thinks his CHILDREN are incompetent douches. Also Kinzo is probably jealous that Battler could ditch the family, so by making Battler head he is doing to Battler as Eva did to Ange.

>>4038971
Nanjo.

Pretty sure Dr. Walrus doesn't want to hump Battler as furiously as the rest of the cast.

>>4038971
Lambda and Bern. That's pretty much all.

>>4038971
Rudolf is tsundere for Battler.

>>4038932
that's why, Kinzo knew that Battler was A LOT like him, Kinzo just left to the war instead of of leaving the house, also a bit of revenge, but I think Kinzo knew Battler would be a good successor, as long as he gets to study, he reads a lot buit gets awful grades, he should just get into it, I'm sure that he's really intelligent

>>4038971

Eva
>wants to take him on a vacation.

Rosa
>winks at him seductively

Kyrie
>hates Battler/Asumu

Natsuhi
>is pure and faithful

Shannon
>First love

Maria
>Eat me in 10 years

Jessica
>standard childhood friend lust

Kumasawa
>wanted to show Battler her boobs

>>4038971
Dlanor, Kawabata

>>4039005

I loved his line in EP5.

"I don't say, "I read books." That sounds awfully arrogant coming from someone who only reads less than a hundred books per year."

Than he proceeds to humiliate Erika.

>>4039027
Dlanor obviously wants Battler, and I wouldn't put it past Kinzo to hire a boat captain who would want to violate Battler.

>>4039013
Forgot Ange.

>>4038971
PRO-BATTLER: Beato, Maria, Shannon, Jessica, Kumasawa, Virgilia, Kyrie (once she figures out he's not Asumu's demonspawn), Eva, Natsuhi the slut, Rosa, Asmodeus, Beelzebub, Mammon, Belphegor, Satan, Leviathan, Lucifer, 410, 46, 00, Gaap, Ronove, Rudolf, the cape, and occasionally Ange, but she's not really a brocon.

ANTI-BATTLER: Lambda, Bern, Krauss, Hideyoshi, Genji, Gohda, Kinzo.

>>4039005
Battler would just get all the money he could and went on lifelong vacations.

>>4038971
Beatrice

>>4039055
Lambda is neutral in taht regard, she wants the game to continue, she's the most neutral in Umineko, she sides with both so the game isn't finished. She also says in red that she can make impartial judgements over the game
Also if teh rulehadn't been impossed on Ange, she'd hjust go woth her onii-chan to defea the black witch

>>4039069
derp.

Hello, Senka.

Juuza probably doesn't want Battler assuming he's not Archer Battler or some such.
Unless it turns out Juuza was Battler's friend during those 12 years.

>>4039081
FFFF, just had a revelation of sorts.

SENKA IS ANIMESUKI. Mostly blitz, but still.

>>4039055
Dunno how can you say Mammon and then "sometimes Ange".

>>4039098
All the Stakes love to sexually harass Meta-Battler. It was trufax before Ange showed up, and has nothing to do with the piece characters.

>>4039046
>Dlanor obviously wants Battler
No, she wants Erika.

>>4039126
And Erika wants Battler.

Because she is a stupid bitch slut.

So arguably, the only non 1998 only characters that don't want Battler are George, Krauss, Hideyoshi, Goldsmith, 34, Bern, Nanjo, and Kawabata?

>>4039154
>1998
Besides 34 and Bern, those people are all dead, Jim

>>4039055
>>Kyrie (once she figures out he's not Asumu's demonspawn)
>>Kyrie

Why the culprit?

Something weird about a potential Shannon = Beatrice is that it's also stated that Beatrice, the master of the island, is 19 years old.

Shkannon seems obvious from the gameboard plot and characterization, but the mechanics of Kanon rescuing Battler and the red text fight Erika and Beato have about it is a total mindfuck in that case.

>>4039223
The Beatrice in Shannon's mind is the image that she builds based on Battler's preference.
She doesn't have to be 19, she just has to believe that she is 19.
Probably because Battler prefers older women.

>>4039223
To clarify, from Erika and Beatrice's fight, it's stated that:

Shannon is in the adult's room. Kanon is in the cousin's room. The person who saved Battler is undoubtedly the real Kanon. Shannon's position is fixed.

It's a lot more complex and mindfucking than people are making it out to be.

>>4039262
What if the adult's room and the cousin's room are one and the same?

Guys, is the part about "BIG BOMBS" true? So then Battler 'SMALL BOMBS' theory was almost correct? And Piece-Battler in EP4 was killed by BIG BOMBS? So Beatrice = BIG BOMBS?

>>4039270
Erika taped up both, separately, so....

>>4039262
Is Shannon dead or alive at that time?

>>4039277
If bombs end up being true it'd make no sense as detectives, and even fucking normal people for the most part, would be able to figure it out within a day. Isn't it supposed to be a mystery even years later?

Explosives aren't something you can just hide, nor can you magically get rid of all the proof of one having existed, been made, and been used.

>>4039262
Wait, so ShKanon is pretty much denied?

>>4039297
Bomb is at the end of the epitath.
That's why Beatrice asked for them to solve it.

>>4037972

>>4039307
Not really.
Because even Kanon couldn't have saved Battler.

>>4039297
it wasn't a bomb. it was an explosion in the boiler room. that's why it's called an accident.

>>4039307
I don't know. Again, the plot and characterization beats you over the head with Shkannon. It's just that, again, it's more complex and what than people are assuming it is.

>>4039317
Stated in red. Kanon himself came and saved Battler.

>>4039315
oh god. I lol'd.

>>4039317
It was stated in red that the person who saved Battler was undoubtedly the real Kanon...

>>4039281
But there is no detective in this game. Maybe they're actually the same room?

>>4039297
But seeing how Ange never saw the mansion at EP4 and no bodies were found, the possibility of 'big bombs' is quite strong.

and the place to hide the big bombs? Beato boobs. She is actually flat as a board. That boobs are actually 2 big bombs. That's why she said at EP4 that she will kill Battler even though Battler is alone in the island.

>>4039343
Well, the entire climax and ultimate troll is based upon Erika tricking Battler into letting her seal the rooms with the tape and her verifying everyone was really dead by chopping off their heads, so if you claim that, we're heading into the realm of "None of EP6 is valid", I think.

>>4039330
>>4039324

I meant "logically speaking".
Someone doesn't disappear like this so easily, normally.

Actually it puts more point in the ShKanontrice theory.

>>4039367
Erika trolled me, when she was begging Battler to let her use the tape.

Ok guys let's assume ShKanon isn't true for a moment. What are other options? How to explain 17 people counting Erika?

>>4039382
Yeah, it's weird. Even with personality swapping hijinx aside, the fact remains that even if it's Shkannon, a real person would have had to have gotten through Erika's seals, let Battler out, and then completely vanished from within the closed room. Saying "Kanon is an altenate persona of Shannon's" doesn't change the fact that it's impossible even if Shannon's body showed up with Kanon's personality.

Also stated in red: "The people in the room are Nanjo, Hideyoshi, George, Shannon, and Kumasawa. There are five people. No others aside from those with the names stated exist. The only ones allowed to use those names are the people themselves."

>>4039397
Someone with died ot get the fuck out of the island before the game begun.
And since the detective trolls us by only confirming the number, that would be the most plausible explanation. Skannon could easily be used but EP 6 is a trainwreck to know what actually happened.

Someone died or got the fuck out of the island before the game began*
Fucking vodka.

anyone going to stream EP6 tonight?

>>4039403
>>4039429
I've been thinking about it for a while and yeah it's hard.
Fucking body of Kanon and the way it always disappears.

>>4039512
Here, more mindfuck in red: "Kanon is the only one that entered the room when he came to rescue Battler. Until the point you entered the room and the logic error was created, the only people that entered the room were you (Erika), Battler, and Kanon. Yes, you, Battler, and Kanon. Three people."

>>4039527
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

For Beatrice's riddle at the end of EP4; could it be possible that Battler kills himself?

"But I am here and I kill you". Maybe something to do with real world Beatrice drove him to suicide(or poisoning, bombs, traps, whatever).

>>4039527
Well, fuck.

>>4039527
GODDAMNIT I DONT KNOW IN WHAT TO BELIEVE ANYMORE

>>4039553
Yeah, we'd have to assume that instead of Beatrice being a human, she's an object of some sort. You know, like Sasha.

>>4039512
Here is a theory.
The Shannon's persona died in the room with George.
Kanon took over and went to save Battler.
Kanon's persona then died in that room.
Only the Beatrice's persona stayed and she just hid herself.

>>4039642
Supported by the fact that it's never said in red that no one else is in the room.
Only that only Erika, Battler and Kanon went in and out of it.

>>4039663
Also stated in red that Kanon only entered and never came out.

>>4039642
multiple personality disorder does not work that way

>>4039642
Shannon persona killed the Kanon persona this episode, unless we want to write off the entire subplot implying Shkannon off.

>>4039669
In a game it could.
The reason Kanon went to save Battler was maybe because he realized that he was being swallowed by the Beatrice within him.

>>4039642
>Kanon took over and went to save Battler.
Then who was in the room with Jessica and Co?

>>4039669
>>4039685
Well I don't see any other explanation for the body disappearance trick.

>>4039716
And this is why Erika lost.

>>4039685
Gladly.

God I hate the whole Shkannontrice idea.

>>4039687
>In a game it could.
This is a detective novel and you are inches away from breaking the 4th knox rule.

>>4039685
Maybe Shannon stayed in the room with George "in essence".
Like she has something that symbolize her personality, and she can only take over when she has it.
Or something, grabbing at straws here.
Fucking Kanon.

>>4039739
Doesn't work. The only one allowed to use Shannon's name is the person herself.

>>4039749
If you use enough word-play then it still would be "herself".

>>4039758
No, "the person herself" is very precise. It denies any kind of metaphor or essence bullshit being represented by the name "Shannon".

So Shkannon is slowly falling apart ?

The loophole is of course that it never stated that there's no one hiding in the room or that no one other than Battler, Erika and Kanon stayed in it.

>>4039767
The person herself does not specifically say that exact physical body, mind, and soul.

The "person herself" could easily be attached to the 'soul' or 'being' of a person - which you could easily say is in an inanimate object.

>>4039776
HALLELUUUJAH

>>4039776
Not really, except if you can tell me how the fuck Kanon body disappeared from that fucking room.

>>4039791
Shannon could not have turned into Kanon in the room where George was, because Kanon was confirmed not to be in there. Furthermore, Shannon's position is fixed.

Explain how she went and saved Battler.

>>4039780
Now this is getting way deeper than it actually is.
Its a person/human/individual THATS IT.

Basically:
Stated in red: Kanon definitely entered but never went out of this room.
Stated in red: Kanon isn't in the room.
Solve this.

Logical fallacies in my Umineko? Get out of here...

>>4039815
My point is simply that with wordplay the red text becomes pretty worthless. Not saying I believe what I posted there as the truth of what happened, it was just an example of how relying on what's said without reading deeper into it and trying to change it around results in the red text all easily being lies.

>>4039816
i think knox allows one and only one secret passage

>>4039815
The whole point of the ShKanontrice theory is that the different personalities can be considered as their own "person" you know.

Of course it's metaphysical, but it can works if this theory works.
Not saying this is the truth.
But if we admit that Kanon and Shannon can be considered dead independently, then that thing works.

>>4039816
Kanon was in the room and left the room later?

>>4039842
Stated in red that Kanon isn't hiding nor did he escape using a secret passage.

We should really stop tossing multiple theories together. We have the theory that Shannon or Kanon is Beatrice, and we a different theory that Shannon and Kanon are the same person.

>>4039850
The problem is the physical. Shannon COULDN'T have done it. You need to explain how Shannon's postion became unfixed and she was able to leave the room as Kanon, then rush over to the other room, let Battler out, die as Kanon and leave nothing. (Beato wasn't in the room)

>>4039855
No, otherwise it would be easy.

>>4039857
There's no theory that Kanon is Beatrice, and I didn't see anyone talk about Shannon = Beatrice only.
The theory from the beginning is that Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice.

aka it's always more fun with more people.

Hey, folks, is it ever stated that Battler had a crush on Shannon or Jessica? Because if so, that may be a bit of a clue.

But as for these shenanigans, let's use a bit of common sense here. If Shannon = Kanon, I think we should agree that the body is indeed female, because R07 has confirmed that the George's and Shannon's love is true, and from that we should assume that George would know enough about his future wife's sex. In addition, considering that Jessica lives on the island, I see it very unlikely that she wouldn't be aware of a Shannon = Kanon deal. Heck, this whole episode to me seemed like a gigantic metaphor to the "truth" behind Kanon and Shannon, by Shannon "winning" I felt like that was a hint that she is the true persona. But yeah, the only way I can really buy S/Kanon would involve Jessica being a culprit or Jessitrice, as she is far too sketchy to not be involved in these shenanigans.

>>4039879
In episode 1 they talk about how he used to like her if I remember right.

>>4039868
We don't know who was in the room, someone could be hiding, not stated in red that it wasn't the case.

And read this >>4039739
Is it farfetched and stupid? Yes.
But could work if the theory is true.
For now I see nothing else.

>>4039879
Mentioned several times that Battler used to have a crush on Shannon.

>>4039739
BUT SHE HAS DED
FUCKING RYUKISHI THE WHOLE EPISODE 6 IS A TROLLFEST

>>4039890
>We don't know who was in the room, someone could be hiding, not stated in red that it wasn't the case.
Where? Erika checked everywhere except the closet. Even if someone was hiding in there and died, they should have left a body instead of vanishing.

>>4039879
Episode 3 confirms his crush on Shannon when he was younger, it isn't said if he still does.

>>4039901
He used to have a crush on Shannon?
Hm, well, in this episode, doesn't Battler say something about it being a sin to "forget his first love"?
Because, if so....

>>4039739
dosent that break "supernatural identities are not allowed" rule

>>4039933
We've had people saying it was Battler who said that, and someone else saying it was a mistake, George was the one who said that, so whatever.

>>4039921
Yeah but not in red.

>>4039917
But I thought we liked being trolled, it's so fun
PROTIP: don't waste your time making lots of theories, you have EIGHT months till next comiket, keep that in mind

>>4039941
Nothing supernatural about it.

>>4039949
Also, Battler didn't actually forget that he had a crush on Shannon.

>>4039933
>Hm, well, in this episode, doesn't Battler say something about it being a sin to "forget his first love"?
No, Shannon says it, in regards to her not being George's first love.

>>4039958
>"in essence"
>Like she has something that symbolize her personality, and she can only take over when she has it.
Spirits are supernatural bro

>>4039949
Well, if Battler said it, it would give credit to the Shannontrice and (ugh)Pony Theory. If George said it, well, wait, why the fuck would George say it? Well if he did indeed say it, I'm of the opinion that Shannon = Kanon, and the Jessitrice theory would be the only way to pull of piece Beato, if any.

>>4039933
>>4039949
>>4039963
>>4039970
You guys are all wrong. Ange said it. She was remembering all the dick she's had.

>>4039987
George has a discussion with Shannon about feeling bad because Shannon isn't his first love.

I've got it. A B0MB went off and destroyed the room, thus Kanon is not in the room because it doesn't exist anymore.

>>4039984
It's not about spirit.
It's a psychological trick, human's psyche is much weirder than you can think.

>>4040000
"Only the person themselves can use Shannon's name."

Unless you want to invoke "Shannon's spirit" crap, Shannon's name can't be represented by a psychological trick or an inanimate object.

>>4039995
Oh, ok. That's fine. I really just can't stand the idea of Shannon = Kanon AND Beatrice. In fact, Jessitrice is growing on me, if the idea about Shannon = Kanon is indeed correct.

>>4040028
Jessitrice+Shkannon would be morbidly hilarious after EP6. Jessica makes a fictional construct for Battler because she can't love him anymore, and then goes on to fall in love with a fictional construct herself. Oh wow.

>>4039970
Wow, that's kind of surprising. That must mean that George's first love was Battler and George is Beatrice.

Battler went outside of the room before it became a closed room.

>>4040043
I, for one, welcome our new Georgetrice overlords.

>>4040042
Well, just another WACKY day at Rokkenjima!

>>4040042
FUND IT

>>4039970
>>4039995
Wait, wait, wait... didn't George say in EP2 that before meeting Shannon he was a loser that wouldn't be able to go out with a chick?

Hey, any bro wanna stream episode 6? I want mah yandere HELLFIRE Jessica!

I bet R07 does this things with the sole purpose of checking BBSs, imageboards and forums and check people's reactions. He probably also posts in those and trolls people.

That's what I'd do.

>>4040122
And then he takes the crack ideas that people come up with and puts them in if they work with the basic plot.

>>4040108
Having a first love and not having dated someone are not mutually exclusive.

>>4040122
He posts on 2ch. And trolls. Alot. He's pretty much an IRL Xellos, a troll of the OH U DIDN'T ASK LOL variety.

>>4040135
Ah... you're right. I thought of a first girlfriend.

>>4040132
I'd find it more impressive if he came up with all of them on his own.

>>4040181
new thread