/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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>>3144367
>>??? : And now... I... know.
AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLER

>>3144379
You forgot your coat.

>>3144363

No Battler, you are the witches.
And then Battler was a sorcerer.

>No, but he sees Erika
>on the game board
Alright
>talking IN FUCKING RED
What is this I don't even

So Beato is really battler? I'm sort of disappointed.

>>3144416
>So Beato is really battler?
According to the guys in the last thread that's only speculation.

>>3144416
Hopefully not, or else I'd have an entire folder of Battler masturbation images.

>>3144430
What's wrong with that?

>>3144363
Next part

>>3144416
This is only speculation.

Anyway, thinking about it. In Higurashi, the theme was friendship, and in Umineko, love has been all over the place "magic cannot exist without love". You'll get something around this in the last game.

>>3144437
I don't know.

>>3144379
I laughed way too hard at this

>>3144438

This is just one big clusterfuck isn' it?

>>3144409
Can someone elaborate on Erika talking red on the game board?

Do people on the game board acknowledge it as red and therefore the truth?

>>3144454
She only does it once, and no one really reacts to it. She basically uses the red to tell Battler to get the fuck out of the way.

>>3144379
Beatrice is the other half.

>>3144476
Oh im relieved then
thanks for clearling that up

Does the episode end with Battler doing something awesome? I'm getting the impression it's just him getting destroyed the whole time.

>>3144379
>>3144484
I am the bone of my theory
Knowing is my body
And witch is my blood

>>3144524
He kicks Rika 1 and 2 in the teeth.

>>3144524
Yes, he becomes the motherfucking game master.

>>3144524
Battler becomes the new Golden Witch/Endless Mage, pimps out all his new sidekicks (Beatrice's old furniture), kicks the shit out of Erika for a while, becomes the new game master and declares war on Lambda and Bern.

It's pretty awesome.

>>3144533
Does he get a fancy outfit and silly hat?

I'm starting to think that Battler will indeed revive Beatrice, only for her to troll him again. But this time Battler will be less of a newfag and have a super epic truth ready to completely destroy her and we have bittersweet end.

>>3144547
He already has a fancy outfit, and his hair is better than any hat.

>>3144524
Apparently he takes up Beato's position as the golden witch (Erika and Battler discover the gold so he becomes eligible for it) and then proceeds to become game master

>>3144547
"I put on my robe and wizard hat."

>>3144546
Oh, cool. Now he can truly call stakegirls his harem

>>3144546
You forgot the parts where he gets his ass pretty much kicked and cries and whines.
>>3144551
Of course he will revive her, higurashi was the power of friendship and Umineko is the power of love.

>>3144563
I Lol'd.

>>3144577
I cannot help to think of a chicken when I see that pic.

>>3144578
Nah, Battler will revive Beatrice...

As his furniture.

>>3144578
>Umineko is the power of love.

Damnit Ryukishi. I thought you would have the balls to commit Beatrice as the antagonist.

Also, do we know who the second Battler is yet?

>>3144592

>>3144595
They cockteased about it by having Rudolf tell Battler on the first night that he'd tell him the truth behind his birth, but then they got distracted with the murders.

>>3144608

Oh come on, man. You could at least put the text in the picture.

THE POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWER OF LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>3144595
>I thought you would have the balls to commit Beatrice as the antagonist.

Hey, you cannot say she's been a hard-to-understand character throughout all of these games. Personally, I've liked that better than just your typical villain.

>>3144613
>put the text in the picture.
Fucking shit. No, a reaction picture is bad enough. Go back to fucking /b/

WHERE IS MY ENDLESS SORCERER RAPING ERIKA +BERN + LAMBDADELTA DOUJINS

>>3144595
>I thought you would have the balls to commit Beatrice as the antagonist.

Hey, you cannot say she hasn't been a hard-to-understand character throughout all of these games. Personally, I've liked that better than just your typical villain.

>>3144625
NEXT COMIKET

Battler's mother is deeeeeeeeeeeeead, right? Maybe, all the stupid reason of THE POOOOOWEEEER OOOOOF LOOOOOOVE is a trauma for her death or something.

So.

When's umineko 6?

>>3144625
Next episode. Battler mans up, denies all the witches, revives Beatrice and starts an orgy with the stakes.

>>3144608
I'll admit I read it in his voice and chuckled.

>>3144646
Probably December. It's always been released at Comiket so far.

LOL HEY GUYS REMEMBER WHEN I SAID I'D HURRY HOME TO ANGE LIKE LAST EPISODE?

WHAT THE FUCK WAS I THINKING, MAGIC IS AWESOME LOL

ITT: people who are seriously just realizing Umineko's theme has always been the power of looooooooooove

>>3144677
Fuck Ange. Rather than a goth imouto you've got a completely awesome bro.

>>3144679
They were all wrapped up in their bullshit Kanon is Shannon theories to notice the obvious signs.

>>3144677
Seriouslly fuck Ange. I hated most of ep4 because of her and was very happy when bad things happened to meta-Ange.

>>3144699
It's not our fault, Ryukishi tricked us. He wanted us to think that just so he could go, "lol, he's Shannon + Kanon + Battler" in every single scene.

Any other spoilers that are interesting?

>>3144713
Kinzo's been dead for a year.

>>3144713
Check the other umineko thread with all the images if you truly wish to learn the true spoiler of episode 5.

>>3144677
>LOL HEY GUYS REMEMBER WHEN I SAID I'D HURRY HOME TO ANGE LIKE LAST EPISODE?

He already did. In this last game, Rudolf, Kyrie and Battler survived. Ange got her happy end. That's enough for her.

>>3144718
That's a boring ep4 spoiler, though. Just redtexting it doesn't make it fuckobvious from last ep.

>>3144679
I gave Ryukishi the benefit of the doubt this time, sometimes a tragic end is better than a power of life happy one.

I'm also mad after finding out Beato wasn't the troll I thought she was.

>>3144669


.. And by that time we'll finally get a EP5 translation. Weee.

>>3144679
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShN8UIk5-mw

>>3144713
Kinzo telling Natsuhi she has the one-winged eagle in her heart is confirmed to be nothing but Natsuhi's delusion. Bern says it in red to completely break Natsuhi's spirit when Erika's accusing Natsuhi of being the culprit.

>>3144732
Kinzo was obviously dead in episode 4, but his time of death is now confirmed.

Cool, huh?

I gave Ryukishi the benefit of the doubt this time, sometimes a tragic end is better than a power of love happy one.

I'm also mad after finding out Beato wasn't the troll I thought she was.

>>3144728
Still, there's likely to be three more games.

I'll withhold my judgment on whether Battler is an ass or not for next game, since he's the gamemaster and all.

How come Beato is pretty much gone right from the start of episode 5? She was fine in episode 4.

>>3144677

Fuck you Onii-chan

>>3144771
Because she didn't get her ass handed badly at the end of EP3?

>>3144771
>She was fine in episode 4.

Except for the part when Battler stabbed the shit out of her with giant blue spikes.

>>3144761
At this rate Bern, Erika, or 34 better not turn out to be GOOD GUYS ALL ALONG/HAD SAD REASONS FOR DOING THIS.

Seriously, Ryukishi, make us hate their fucking guts, give them the shittiest end ever.

>>3144803
We already know Bern's sad reasons for doing this. She's still a bitch.

>>3144803
>Seriously, Ryukishi, make us hate their fucking guts, give them the shittiest end ever.

Hey, Takano was an awesome villain, regardless of her reasons.

>>3144803
Battler was ready to kill Erika but Bern got in his way

>>3144810
>We already know Bern's sad reasons for doing this.

What are her reasons?

>>3144828
Bern went crazy from being killed thousands of times

>>3144815
tl;dr Ryukishi should have the balls to kill off his villains.

So what was the answer to the epitaph???????????

Am I the only person who thinks this is an AWESOME twist?

>>3144851
No. It's awesome. I just wish I knew Japanese so I could read it properly.

>>3144836
What for?

>>3144851
No

>>3144803
Bern is moe though ... so conflicted.

>>3144851
Beatrice helping Battler has been telegraphed for a while now, it's hardly a twist.

>>3144799
We already knew that was all bullshit. She was just holding out, none of Battler's blue was the truth and she could have easily countered it. Lambda revealed that.

So what's up with her at the start of episode 5?

>>3144851
>>3144878

>>3144894

It was bullshit but doesn't mean she wasn't fucking stabbed. She's basically comatose at the start of EP 5.

Rest in Peace sweet pricness ;_;

>>3144911
I see. That sucks, man.

>>3144894
>Battler's blue was the truth and she could have easily countered it

That's irrelevant, if she didn't counter it, then those words denied her. Thus, the comatose state she was in at the beginning of EP5.

I still don't understand golden truth.

>>3145032
I don't think anyone knows that much about it.

>>3145032
its like the opposite of what happens when your mother tells you that she loves you

>>3145054

>>3145032

Absolute truth, no matter when, why or how.

>>3145069
Red truth is true no matter why or how. So golden truth is red + being true at all times?

>>3145085

Not exactly. Red truth can be like, "there are no more than 18 people on rokkenjima" and later turn to "there are no more than 17 people on rokkenjima". Both are true. Golden truth is absolute truth, no more, no less. Like saying " I have 10 fingers, 5 in each hand" instead of "I don't have more than 15 fingers".

>>3145142
But can't you say in red "There are 17 people on this island"? (assuming it was true) It's just that Beato avoided being specific so that she wouldn't give Battler too much of a hint.

>>3145142
This is odd, because Beato has used the red to make absolute statements like "X character is dead".

>>3145169

Yes, but that isn't absolute. there aren't 17 people on Rokkenjima all the time.

But I may be wrong.

>>3145198
Basically, you can't argue against Golden Truth. If someone said "X character is dead", you could (and people here have done so) argue it could mean "they abandoned their identity as X, it was a metaphorical death" or something. If, in Golden Truth, "X character is dead", then x character is dead, no ifs, ands, or buts.

>>3145198
But x character wasn't always dead

>>3145219
I see, so Golden Truth is like indoctrination... Hmm...

Can anyone tell me the method the first Twilight was killed and hidden (if hidden at all)? Where Battler was during the Twilight (I heard it took place on the first day)? And what time Erika appeared (just 'cause the body count went up could still mean someone is pretending like philosophically this 'personality' or act could just a pure one that had nothing to do with the murders and used the collective knowledge from the real personality)?

>>3145976

Erika appears day one. She and Battler find the gold before dinner time on the first day and an odd letter comes proclaiming Battler the sole owner of the gold and the new head of the family.

First twilight basically everyone got sliced from neck to shoulder. Rosa, Maria, Jessica and George are found dead in the cousin's room. Battler literally wakes up and sees their corpes. Rudolf's family is most suspicious right away because their son found the gold and no one from their branch in the family is dead.

>>3146007
.....He wakes up and finds the corpse's there? Holy..... SHIT.... That's a quiet kill, man....... From neck to shoulder? Could they have probably used a fucking scythe (the gardening tool)?

Someone mentioned everyone saw a magic battle between who and who and what the hell exactly happened? and Did everyone seriously live long enough to go home? Besides the people of the first Twilight of course. In other words: did everyone for instance die before the storm settled besides Hideyoshi.

Can anyone answer these?

>>3146007
How does Erika arrive? Via a shipwreck right? What are the details of that?

>>3146086
Everyone lives, though I think what happens after is unknown. Most of the second day is never shown.

Ｄｉｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｄｅａｔｈ！

Ｓｅｎｔｅｎｃｅ　ｔｏ　ｄｅａｔｈ！！

Ｇｒｅａｔ　ｅｑｕａｌｉｚｅｒ　ｉｓ　ｔｈｅ　ｄｅａｔｈッ！！

>>3146111
dat bulge...

>>3146089
Her cloths must have been wet.... How the hell did she keep her hat?

>>3146119
>Her cloths must have been wet
/r/ing a pic of a wet Erika.

Everything about Erika sounds a lot of BS

>>3146138
Don't take the things you hear the wrong way. Erika is 100% meant to be hated.

>>3146161
What exactly does she do on the game board? How does she come to suspect Natsuhi? And what happens at the end, on the game board?

>>3146086

Gentlemen. I will answer this. There are two truths present in the fifth game:
1. Natsuhi plotted the downfall of the family and is the culprit, 7 are dead.
2. Natsuhi's 19 year old given son, known as Ushiromiya Battler, wanted to ruin Natsuhi's life and is the culprit, all seven, or some, or none are possibly dead

>>3146161
I haven't seen any reason to hate her in these threads except "she's mean and argues against witches heartlessly/condescendingly"

I don't see anything wrong with this, witches don't exist and anyone saying they do deserves to be mocked

>>3146207
In order to argue witches don't exist, she rushes to pin the blame on anyone who can't be proven innocent. How can you forgive what she does to poor Natsuhi?

>>3146207
She's also characterized on the game board as an utter sociopath. While Eva and everyone else are sobbing wrecks over the dead kids, Erika prances in with a gleeful smile on her face, talking about how interesting it is to play this game of mystery. Battler angrily points out that she's completely heartless and she giggles it off.

>>3146138
Yeah. She find the fucking gold despite never knowing any of the Ushiromiya's, solves the fucking game, blames all the deaths on Natsuhi, she says she'll take down Battler, and then calls herself a detective.

And this is supposed to be some random person in shipwreck that just happened to be smart.

I don't get it... why did Natsuhi kill her own daughter? That doesn't seem like her at all.

>>3146239
She probably didn't. Battler believes in Natsuhi's innocence to the very end. The entire sequence of Natsuhi being put on 'trial' is portrayed as extremely sadistic.

>>3146215
I don't like Natsuhi at all, good riddance
>>3146231
So she's a mystery-arguing Maria? Seems fine to me.

>>3146239
Motives don't matter right now. It has something to do with 6 years ago or whatever. And it was stated in Red that something Ushiromiya Battler caused all the murders. Who they kill and their motive doesn't matter until AFTER the mystery is over.

>>3146262
I'm sure you love the thought of Erika ripping Natsuhi's heart out and stomping on it is good right? That was awesome.

>>3146266
Motives are central to what's going on, Ryukishi said himself that he wants to focus more on the 'why' section of the mystery more than most other stories do.

Battler ignored Beatrice's motives for four games and look how that ended up.

>>3146272
That doesn't happen, except metaphorically. Basically what Bern and Erika did was completely crush Natsuhi's spirit. In the metaworld, Bern basically tells Natsuhi Kinzo telling her she had the eagle on her heart was nothing more than her pathetic delusion and that Kinzo hated her. Natsuhi has a total breakdown.

>>3146239

Ｍｉｓｓ　Ｎａｔｓｕｈｉ　ｗａｎｔｓ　ｔｏ　ｆｒａｍｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｍｕ
ｒｄｅｒｓ　ｏｆ　ｔｈｅ　ｃｏｕｓｉｎｓ　ｏｎ　Ｂａｔｔｌｅｒ　ｗ
ｈｏ　ｓｕｃｃｅｅｄｅｄ　ｔｈｅ　ｆａｍｉｌｙ　ｆｏｕｒｔｕｎｅ

Ｉｔ’ｓ　ｏｋ，　ｓｈｅ　ｎｅｖｅｒ　ｌｏｖｅｄ　ｈｅｒ　ｄａｕｇｈ
ｔｅｒ　ｏｒ　ｈｕｓｂａｎｄ　ａｎｙｗａｙ．　Ｉｎ　ｆａｃｔ　ｓｈ
ｅ　ｐｒｏｂａｂｌｙ　ｌｏｖｅｄ　ｆａｔｈｅｒ　ｄｅａｒｅｓｔ　ｍ
ｏｒｅ　ｔｈａｎ　ａｎｙｏｎｅ　ｅｌｓｅ

>>3146280
Battler going Witch? The motive doesn't matter until after the culprit is caught. As the motive shouldn't effect the cause of death or anything like that. Maria is the only exception see Episode 4 as she was poisoned.

Were entitled to figure out how 'this crime was committed by humans' not anything else.

>>3146316
No, Battler being absolutely crushed with regret because at that point Beatrice had already been 'killed' and it was too late.

>Were entitled to figure out how 'this crime was committed by humans' not anything else.

Oh god, people are still thinking like this? ahahahahahahahahahaha

>>3146302
Haha, I thought that forever. Good to see someone's telling the bitch she's crazy.

Most people arguing mystery act like Erika; I don't see why someone acting like them showing up in the novel gets so much rage.

Honestly Battler sounds hypocritical in the game to me.

He has no trouble defending Natsuhi against being called the culprit but in EP 3 he pinned everything on obvculprit Eva and continued to do so. Saying Natsuhi would never kill her husband or daughter has the same logic as to why Eva would never kill her husband or son, yet Battler just has no problem with her being the culprit.

>>3146325
I never liked Beatrice so to me all this about Beatrice dieing and everything doesn't matter much.

And Battler's running the gameboard next time. Therefore is entitled to show the most magical crap he can think of.

>>3146354
Dunno how her son was killed but I think Rudolph or Kyrie killed Hideyoshi. I vaguely remember one of them reaching for their gun while Hideyoshi was confronting Eva.

I can't remember episode 3 that well so this is probably already proven bullshit by red text somewhere.

>>3146316
>Were entitled to figure out how 'this crime was committed by humans' not anything else.

Actually, by taking possible motives into account, we can lower the numbers to possible suspects. Once we reduce the number of suspects, we can start studying their moves, and then come up with ideas on how they could have committed a crime.

>>3146331
>Most people arguing mystery act like Erika; I don't see why someone acting like them showing up in the novel gets so much rage.

No shit, Erika was Ryukishi holding up a mirror to the anti-fantasy crowd, and they very obviously weren't supposed to like what they saw, regardless of whether you agree or think that's fair or whatever.

>>3146354
It's to obvious if it's Natsuhi I don't trust anyone of Ryukishi's theories he gives us. If we seriously believe them were in the palm of his fucking hand.

>>3146325
>Oh god, people are still thinking like this? ahahahahahahahahahaha

Thats the point of the story, you can't prove anything more than that. Even if we prove there are no witches on Rokenjima it could be stated that "Witches exist in other kareka (which are other dimensions)" And last I checked Quantum Mechanics and String Theory weren't far enough along to theorize the contents of alternate realities beyond the fact that they can be proven to exist. So there is logically no way whatsoever to disprove all magic and witches everywhere ever.

Take what you can get

>>3146374

Well Hideyoshi took one of the guns when confront Eva-Beatrice and then she made another gun poof up in air and shoots Hideyoshi in the chest. I wouldn't be surprised if Rudolf or Kyrie shot him though, nor if the entire cigarette thing was a red herring and they just planted that in order to accuse Hideyoshi (Rudolf was smoking with him on the boat, so the bud could easily be one that Hideyoshi smoked then)

>>3146384
Erika - if your even close to liking the fantasy people in the game your guaranteed to hate. I myself thought she was a bit harsh but it made sense. And I'm one of the believers of 'were only here to figure out the mystery the rest comes later' fags.

I don't think at all like Erika honestly. I believe that the best way to solve the game isn't figure out the culprit but prevent one in general and make sure not even the 1st twilight happens. Because waiting until deaths happens means no matter what happens there will be tragedy.

I'm sure the culprit is one of the other people and just to frame Natsuhi they stopped killing when she was accused. Battler found the gold anyway, so they probably thought he would give them some nice he's a generally nice kid and wouldn't hoard it all for himself like the others would.

>>3146421
Learn some grammar.

>>3146450
Good theory. There's no way Natsuhi is the culprit, fuck Erika.

How long did it take the other episodes to get translated anyway? Gonna be a long wait ;_;

>>3146450
>I believe that the best way to solve the game isn't figure out the culprit but prevent one in general and make sure not even the 1st twilight happens.

You need to know what he/she plans to do, in order to stop them. In addition, taking into account the limited number of people in Rokkenjima, you'd have to know who the culprit is, in order to prevent a trojan horse.

So, in the end, you've got to solve the mystery, before you even try to stop it.

>>3146484
No, Erika presented a plausible but too onesided theory.

>>3146450
It is a staple in murder mysteries that the most likely is actually the least likely, so I could get behind that. It would put that Mary Sue Rika clone in her place too.

And before anyone takes out the "Ryukishi says the isn't a typical mystery", the fucker just invoked Knox, I'm fairly certain he's fucking with us to an extent on that quote.

>>3146450
From what little I've heard about Episode 5, I'd tend to agree with this point. It's just like in episode 3, where everyone was quick to assume that the lack of magic circles after Episode 1/Maria's death meant that the mastermind of the first two episodes were dead.

>>3146559
It's one-sided in a distinctly fuck-Natsuhi way though; I can't help but approve.

>>3146544

Best way to do this is if they just barricade themselves together. All of them stick together in a room for the nights and no one dies. In EP 3 the reason all the parents lived through was because all of them were together. In previous episodes if at least one left the group then all others died.

But yes, as you said, you need to figure out what's going on before it happens.

>>3146544
The culprits could be very well be different people. Hell I think 2 or 3 different people were going around killing people in three and four. Notice all the 'neat' deaths and the 'completely gory ones that anyone can pull off'? And then the staker could be someone completely different.

>>3146540

Witch-Hunt always finished their full patches before the next game came out. Hopefully they get it all done by December.

>>3146568
Just what is your problem with Natsuhi? She's clearly a much better woman than Rosa and Eva.

>>3146571
Everyone died in the cousin's room while Battler was sleeping. I thought that was a good way of doing it but after this....

>>3146591
Didn't they do 1 or 2 in just 2 or 3 months?

Btw I think you guys misinterpreted the difference between the gold and the red (or maybe I did???)

The new rule states you can't use the supernaturals to explain away mysteries so no red allowed (this doesn't contradict anything before since Battler never had the ability to use the red) but the gold overrides this since it's the truth of the game master.

If Battler is the game master now, does that mean he knows everything?

>>3146582
Oh so someone else noticed the deaths were kinda funky. Yeah, their were the ones that looked like they were shot and the ones that were so stupidly done an amateur could do.

>>3146610

Yes but EP 3 full wasn't released until around the same time EP 4 came out. EP 4 itself was finished completely by mid-June I believe, since they got extra translators (they were in exam periods so it was supposedly supposed to be done a lot slower)

>>3146592
Jessica hates her, she cares way too much about the Ushiromiya family despite being a worthless woman, and almost every time she speaks she's told to shut up by Krauss.

>>3146627

EP 4 is prime example. Everyone was pretty much just sloppily shot in the head. Kanon, Shannon, Nanjo, Krauss and Kyrie weren't even properly staked and you can't tell who was the 4th through 8th twilight at all in anti-fantasy sense.

>>3146614
No, we never said anything like that. And doesn't gold only go against the 'crazy ones that no one will ever think of' like how the commandments of Knox goes their should not be a complex mechanism in the killings. In other words the things that trigger the killings should be done by something anyone can think of ie multiple personalities and delusions.

>>3146645
I don't think Jessica "hates" her, she just doesn't like being pestered so much.

>>3146645
Jessica doesn't really hate her. Evidenced in episode 1.
>she cares way too much about the Ushiromiya family despite being a worthless woman
You hate her because she cares too much?
>and almost every time she speaks she's told to shut up by Krauss.
You hate her because Krauss tells her to shut up?

>>3146651
If we're operating under the assumption that each killer is using a different modus operandi, then we can infer that apart from the staker, at least 2 killers are active in 4. One is using a gun that blows off half the head (all of the first twilight victims), while the other one is using a less damaging gun(George, Kyrie etc).

>>3146645
Jessica cries like a bitch whenever she finds her mom dead, I'm pretty sure that has to count for some form of caring.

>>3146645
>Jessica hates her

No, she just behaves like a teenager.

>>3146450
Fufufufufufu. Ah, it's useless, it's useless. If the motive for the murders was the gold, there wouldn't be any murders since you can probably correctly assume that the culprit knows the location of the gold. So why would they have to kill everyone when they could simply take it at any time?

But I think the nature of endless magic gives us a big clue about what to look for. Think about endless magic like the status of Schrodinger's cat. As long as the box isn't opened, you can claim the cat is alive one moment, claim it's dead the next, revive it, kill it again ad infinitum. You can do this because the box is closed and thus the real status of the cat is unknown. You can even claim the cat has transformed into gold or a pizza; even though it's nonsense, you can't disprove it without opening the box, and if the box can't be opened, the cat can be endlessly killed, crushed by cake, drowned in gelatin, etc. tl;dr endless magic works by trolling on things that remain uncertain, so I'm thinking that the things that occur without certainty are the things that are important. The certain red truth may very well be a red herring.

>>3146660
>>3146663
>>3146680
>>3146692
Seriously, whoever thinks that Jessica hates her mother must have never grown up with parents.

>>3146645
>Jessica hates her
Funny, I never remember Jessica cheering when Natushi died.

>she cares way too much about the Ushiromiya family despite being a worthless woman

Butthurt misogynist much?

>and almost every time she speaks she's told to shut up by Krauss.

Krauss is an idiot. See Episode 5.

Look at the natsuhifags get all butthurt.

>>3146736
Er, I'm not a huge Natsuhi fan or anything, but the claims made by that poster were pretty stupid.

What facts are ascertained in episode 5 that can help with previous games? Such as the fact that Shannon and Kanon really are two different people.

>>3146736
lolitrollu.jpg

I don't even like Natsuhi, those points were just exceedingly fucking stupid, and needed to be put to rest.

>>3146758

tbh not much.

Majority of the game on Rokkenjima stops when Natsuhi is declared culprit after Hideyoshi dies and everything else takes place around meta-world.

Although fact that Maria dies 1st twilight, along with other cousins, means that the culprit isn't the usual Beatrice who communicates with Maria most likely.

>>3146758

Shannon!=Kanon
Battler did not kill anyone in the first four games
The murderer HAS to be the original 17, so this pretty much smashes any fantasy theories
The clues to the answers of the 3 question (Who How Why) are already given
There is no ridiculous is the cause of the murders

>>3146679
Yeah, I think there is the person who maniulates everyone to kill each other, the staker, the killers (this changes on each game), and the guy who does the first Twilight (I'm almost sure this person is not the killer for almost everyone else in most of the games).

>>3146703
They're definitely distant and don't know how to deal with each other. Just because Jessica cries over Jessica's corpse; their relationship is a happy loving one?

And I'm saying Natsuhi cares too much because all her lines that I remember are her defending the Ushiromiya family, even when Krauss tells her to knock it off. It's annoying.

>>3146809
*There is nothing ridiculous that is the cause of the murders (teleport pads, gas, explosion, poison)

>>3146809
No I think Episode 5 was a complete troll game. The Shannon=Kanon is still effective Battler and everyone SEEN A MOTHERFUCKING MAGIC BATTLE.

>>3146830
I thought it was 'there is no complex mechanism behind the deaths'.

>>3146834

Nope, Erika's PoV is true in the fifth game and she has been in the same room with both Shannon and Kanon. Give it up, it's a ridiculous theory that Ryuu stringed idiots along.

>>3146846
-None of the deaths are caused by unknown science or medicine
-Nothing is without a clue (So no lol I poison xxx 8 hours ago and cutted his corpse up before it was foud)

>>3146820
That hardly equates to "hate." Sure, Jessica isn't Natsuhi's ideal daughter, and Jessica would rather Natsuhi didn't bug her so much, but that's nothing more than a overbearing mother/rebellious teenager relationship. Nothing about it reads as hate.

>>3146834
>Battler and everyone SEEN A MOTHERFUCKING MAGIC BATTLE.
Piece battler sees a magic battle? Really?

>>3146892

There are no magic battles in the fifth game unless he's talking about the meta/magic world which isn't real. Besides, piece Battler's PoV in the fifth game is untrustworthy.

>>3146892
The game is a mess. People whether or not having to do with magic go to and from the meta world. Erika speaks in red in front of everyone.

>>3146906
>Besides, piece Battler's PoV in the fifth game is untrustworthy.
Why?

>>3146906
>piece Battler's PoV in the fifth game is untrustworthy

Wait, wait, wait. So, his point of view is no longer reliable. Then, what can we rely on now other than red and the new gold text.

Seriously...

>>3146931
Piece Battler in the fifth game is different because Meta Battler refuses to play without Beato. So Piece-Battler is under Bern/Lambda's control, so we get completely crazy scenes like Battler growing wings and flying off with Beatrice.

>>3146880
Yeah I exaggerated and said the rest in a really stupid way. My fault.

>>3146923
Meta-Battler was complete all-for fantasy half the game when he found out how awesome Anti-Fantasy could be. Therefore, Erika is the only person keeping this game alive.

>>3146938
God this is so confusing. So why can we trust Erika?

>>3146931
Erika. She is the embodiment of our ideal perspective we want, the walking Anti-Fantasy. But she is a complete dick.

>>3146951
She's a Mary Sue. They're trustable by default.

>>3146951
See: >>3146957
Though I admit I have my qualms for instance her meeting both Shannon and Kanon.

>>3146625
>If Battler is the game master now, does that mean he knows everything?

Yes. The reason he became game master going into the fight with Erika was because he understood everything about the Ep5 board.

>>3146942
>Meta-Battler was complete all-for fantasy half the game when he found out how awesome Anti-Fantasy could be.

That doesn't make much sense.

I really hope that being able to trust SOMEONE's viewpoint doesn't turn out to be complete speculation. That would really be a kick in the face.

>>3146957
>walking Anti-Fantasy. But she is a complete dick.

I don't think the "but" goes there.

>>3146981
Piece-Battler's POV is probably reliable for 1-4 games. It's explicitly explained when things get crazy involving Piece-Battler that it's because Meta-Battler isn't participating, so Lambda and Bern are trolling with Piece-Battler.

>>3146972
>The reason he became game master going into the fight with Erika was because he understood everything about the Ep5 board.

Wouldn't that mean he's officially solved the mystery then? So, did he just feel like trolling Erika, and thus he change sides for the following game?

>>3146988
>It's explicitly explained when things get crazy involving Piece-Battler that it's because Meta-Battler isn't participating, so Lambda and Bern are trolling with Piece-Battler.
Well, that's a relief.

>>3146978
In other words when Battler found out how cruel Anti Fantasy really was he join the Fantasy crew. Sure, there were other reasons like wanting to help Beato.

>>3146986
She is onesided and doesn't really care about the other party's argument see Natsuhi's trial she was a complete dick. If I used bad punctuation; ignore/forget all this. Though, that's what made her awesome.

Fifth game takes place mostly in piece Battler and Natsuhi's PoV. Neither of them can be trusted since they claim to see Kinzo walking around saying hows it hanging to them.

Of the ten new rules or "commandments" added to the game, 3 of them basically states:
-Detectives are culprits
-Detectives' POV are trustworthy
-Other pieces' PoV are untrustworthy if they contradict a truth

piece Battler "sees" Kinzo therefore his PoV is shit and noises. Because his PoV is garbage, he's disqualify from being counted a detective in the fifth game. Similarily, because he's not a detective he can be a culprit (and he is in one of the truth of the fifth game world)

>>3147039
woah, I mean "Detective can NOT be culprits"

>>3147028
Yeah, same. I was leery like a lot of other people when hearing about Erika the giant Mary Sue, but actually playing the game, she's hilarious because Ryukishi obviously knows she's a Mary Sue, makes her despicable because of it, and trolls all the anti-fantasy fans in the process.

So what's this about Battler being Natsuhi's son?

>>3147039
What are the 10 rules in full?

>>3147066
In the final Witch Battler versus Erika fight, Battler's alternate proposal to Natsuhi being the culprit is accusing himself as Natsuhi's long-lost adopted son.

>>3147070
> The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to follow.

>All supernatural or preternatural agencies are ruled out as a matter of course.

>Not more than one secret room or passage is allowable.

>No hitherto undiscovered poisons may be used, nor any appliance which will need a long scientific explanation at the end.

>No Chinaman must figure in the story.

>No accident must ever help the detective, nor must he ever have an unaccountable intuition which proves to be right.

>The detective must not himself commit the crime.

>The detective must not light on any clues which are not instantly produced for the inspection of the reader.

>The slow friend of the detective, (the Watson), must not conceal any thoughts which pass through his mind; his intelligence must be slightly, but only very slightly, below that of the average reader.

>Twin brothers and doubles generally, must not appear unless we have been duly prepared for them.

>>3147066

Well you know about the story of how Natsuhi couldn't get a baby so Eva went ahead first etc etc

It seems during this Kinzo decided that she is incompetent as a woman and gave her one of the orphans under his program as her child. She was extremely displeased by this and when she conceived Jessica, she killed the baby and the employee holding it by pushing them off a cliff.

>>3147106
So the theory is that the kid survived, is Battler, and frames Natsuhi for revenge?

>>3147106
She may not have even conceived Jessica either she may have believed to have conceived her though.

>>3147123
Jessica sure does look like her parents though. Natsuhi's hair style and Krauss' hair color.

>>3147135
Anyone can easily change their appearance.

>>3147149
It's true.

As for this thing with Natsuhi rejecting the orphan child, is that confirmed to have really happened?

>>3147149

Especially with WELL I WOULDN'T PUT IT PASS GRANDPA for explaining anything crazy within the family

>>3147162
Kinzo found a replacement to take his place and attended the family meeting disguised as Battler so he can see his no-good sons and daughters discuss his inheritence before he dies right in front of him.

I wouldn't put it past that man to even avoid red text.

Umineko STG Episode 4.5
http://zonata.hp.infoseek.co.jp/umistg/umistg.htm

>>3147106

I have a theory.

The baby is Battler. The servant was Asumu. She survived the fall, and took the baby to Rudolf claiming it was his(That, or explained the whole story and they used 'Asumu had a babby' as a coverup). This would explain everything.

>>3147182

Unfortunately I don't think even Grandpa could override the GOLDEN TRUTH but at least he had the honor to be first to be needed to have that used on him.

>>3147194
What about the fact that she was supposed to be pregnant beforehand, and give birth on the same day Kyrie had a miscarriage?

>>3146387
>>And last I checked Quantum Mechanics and String Theory weren't far enough along to theorize the contents of alternate realities beyond the fact that they can be proven to exist

Actually, they don't prove anything at all. They're just mathematical theories that can't be proven in the real world.

>>3147200
Yeah, sure, Kinzo died. But what about K1746 the one thousand seven hundredth and forty six clone he made of himself. That has a pistol which is automatic and fires golden homing rockets.

>>3147200
Kinzo summons witches and defies fate left and right, I bet he has a contingency plan for even that.

He's pretty much Batman with magic.

>>3147242

Kinzou died to win. He will revive Beato.

>>3147104
>>> The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to follow.

Whoa criminal must be a character that we haven't been privy to his/her thoughts yet?

That means that Genji, Chiyo and Nanjo are suspects. That rules out any of the cousins and Shanon and Kanon.

>>3147280
Sure but this is the worst kind of mystery novel according to Ryukishi so he can do whatever the fuck he wants with that rule. By bending it backwards and left and right. He can say as long as it is nothing true then I can put it here riiiiiggghhhhtttt????

>>3147242

Except that he's a dead dick in the mud, unlike bateman.

>>3147104
>The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to follow.

...Doesn't this mean that Eva isn't the culprit in episode 3?

>>3147280
I don't think that the criminal is the same person every time. I think it changes from episode to episode. Still, that makes Genji suspicious as we never get to see his thoughts, but dude, he's the butler.

>>3147390
That would seem to be so. But really I've thought that all along personally. WAY too obvious.

>>3147403
Well, in all honesty, I thought that Eva was behind most of the murders, though it was obvious she wasn't behind all of them. Still, her being completely cleared surprises me.

>>3147427
The ways that people died just never seemed like the way that Eva would do things to me. Eva's smart enough not to just leave the bodies all in the middle of everything like that. And, from an anti-fantasy perspective, if Eva thinks that the epitaph is a riddle for finding the gold and has SOLVED it as such, why would she go off killing people following its orders?

It's not that I can't imagine her killing, and I can even imagine her killing in a bit of a sloppy way, but I can't imagine her killing with the high theatrics of episode three.

Anyone care to translate?

>>3147541
"I confirm that this corpse is the corpse of Ushiromiya Kinzo."

>>3147586
You're shitting me right!? The big reveal is that Kinzo is dead? We knew that from day one!

>>3147586
affirm

>>3147595

Erika was using the burnt corpse not being confirmed to be Kinzo to their advantage in theories, so Battler unleashes golden truth and states that the corpse is Kinzo's.

Is it wrong that I want to fuck Erika?

OTP

>He kicks Rika 1 and 2 in the teeth.
WHAT?

I like how everyone makes Erika a villain just because she could care less which member of that shitty family dies. From the second episode onwards, I was so sick of most of them that I started laughing with the ways that they died, that while I would try to blame anyone for the crimes, like Natsuhi (yeah, the horror, I was blaming her), which most of the anti-fantasy fags of /jp/ have done and now, since their favorite character A or B just got his/her ass kicked by Ryukishi's favorite loli, who took over the show (like always), they are all butthurt and making up reasons to hate her.

>>3147788
Does that mean that Furude Rika is finally back and Ryukishi will get rid of the clones?

>>3147824
It just means Battler is a huge dick and beats little girls.

>>3147814
Well, I'm all for solving the mystery and proving magic didn't do it, but...this new character IS pretty annoying. LOL I SHOW UP AT ISLAND FOR NO REASON AND SOLVE MYSTERIES. Bern could have at least been a bit more subtle about it.

>>3147814
Sharing loli preferences with ryukishi is a very fortunate thing.

>>3147814
Newsflash: People hate her because she was created for the sole purpose of being unsympathetic, ala EVA-Beatrice.

If you sympathize with a character who mocks the bereaved and laughs at the dead while temporarily stealing the protagonist POV by being an intentional Mary Sue, there's something seriously wrong with you.

>>3147834
So Erika was Bern trolling after all?

None of you Erika basher played EP5.

>>3147860
You didn't either.

>>3147834
Showing up at places for no reason and solving mysteries is what detectives do.

>>3147867
I`m playing EP5 right now. Except for that one short scene she has not showed up yet.

>>3147845
I actually like Eva-Beatrice. Her point of view isn't odd at all; if she can fix broken toys, why worry about breaking them?

>>3147194
Wrong
Ushiromiya Battler is born form Asumu - it was said in red. In your theory it means maid's son was an orphan and accidently was reunited with her mother.

>>3147845
It's better than Battler crying and shitting himself at the first sign of blood.

>>3147976
Personally I'd expect people to show some sort of off-the-wall reaction when SIX MEMBERS OF THEIR FAMILY ARE BRUTALLY MURDERED.

>>3147541
This body is the taste of Kinzo. This body! This body! This body! This body! This body! This body! This body!

>>3147905
>I actually like Eva-Beatrice. Her point of view isn't odd at all; if she can fix broken toys, why worry about breaking them?

Toys don't feel pain. People do. People =/= toys, either way.

>>3147976
The irony of this statement is that you're a reclusive, socially inept neckbeard afraid of interacting with other people, yet you have the gall to call others cowardly. Hypocrisy much?

>>3148016
Oh, Anonymous!

>>3147595
So.... suming up everything this is another game board rather than an answer for EP 1 right ?

This shit is getting way too meta