/jp/ - Otaku Culture

You are the killer.

It's pretty baseless so far, but Genji is pretty suspicious around the time when the first twilight is discovered during episode one.
Genji left before Kanon opened the shutted to the shed, yet Nanjo was the first person he went to see, presumably to tell him about the corpses in the shed. Yet he couldn't have possibly saw what was in the shed.

Rudolph, Kumasawa, and Nanjo all had a letter sent to them after October 5th. I think they are all in on something.

Questions irrelevant to OP, but I didn't want to make a new thread. I want to start Umineko, but I haven't read Higurashi yet. As a matter of fact, I'm downloading Higurashi right now, but I can't seem to find a complete English translation patch. My questions are whether I can fully enjoy Umineko without having read Higurashi and whether or not there is such a patch. Thanks, /jp/.

Slowpoke, etc.

The "poisoner" could be Dr. Nanjo. He survives longer than average, and he undoubtedly knows how to kill with poison.
Nanjo is also the one who confirms the kills, meaning he can quite easily lie about the cause of death.

I don't think I've ever seen him be suspected, which strikes me as odd.

The least suspicious person will be the culprit in the end.

>>2811659
It's also possible that Kyrie did that on her own. Rudolf doesn't necessarily have to know about it.

The servants. All of them are suspicious.

>>2811666
They're more or less unconnected.

>>2811675
>I don't think I've ever seen him be suspected
wat?

>>2811666
>can fully enjoy Umineko without having read Higurashi

Yes, you can. They are almost entirely unrelated and reading one won't spoil the other. Also, only the first episode of Higurashi has been translated so far.

Now, get out of this thread before you spoil it for yourself.

>>2811679
The least suspicious person, though, is Battler

I'm going out on a limb, and saying Natsuhi's the culprit from EP1. One of the people Nanjo diagnosed perhaps wasn't dead, and then took revenge by killing Natsuhi in the end.

The boat captain is the killer.

>>2811729

I refuse with all my heart to believe that Kanon or Jessica are involved in the murders.

But that's probably because I want them to be happy.

I refuse with all my heart to believe that Kanon or Jessica are involved in the murders.

But that's probably because I want them to be happy.

>>2811745
He actually took them to another island with replicas of the mansion on Rokkenjima and him, the servants and some hired guns killed the family there. When Beatrice (the imaginary friend of the human girl who the boat captain helped escape from Kinzo's clutches after she faked her own death on the beach) says that there are no more than 17 people on Rokkenjima, she is talking about the real Rokkenjima and so there can be any amount of people on the boat captain's replica island. I've cracked this mystery.

>>2811778
I wouldn't put it past the boat captain!

>>2811778
But then...
Ange took the very same Boat to the island.

And the captain was particularly insistent he be the one to do it...

GOOD GOD ANGE IS DOOMED

Age for discussion.

In Episode 1, Kyrie tells Battler that "the key to the mystery is finding out who gave Maria that [first] letter".

So... someone dressed as Beatrice? Beatrice herself? What about Episode 4 and the fact that it was Kinzo who gave it to her?

>>2811952
Kinzo's been dead the whole time.

>>2811952

It can't be the cousins, they were together the whole time.

>>2811973
Yeah. So who was it, then?

>>2811996

Natsuhu, under her Beatrice persona. They are at constant conflict, which is why she gets headaches.

>>2812023
>Natsuhi

fix'd

>>2811741
Because of the scorpion charm, at least one of her or Jessica have to be at least somewhat suspicious (the door clawing). However, I have for a while been in the "Jessica is a relatively large part of the crimes" camp, so I've already got my answer.

Who shot Natsuhi, then?

>>Rudolph, Kumasawa, and Nanjo all had a letter sent to them after October 5th. I think they are all in on something.

First off, the letters were postmarked October 3, so they were sent out before the murders, not after. Secondly, while they were addressed to Rudolph, Kumasawa, and Nanjo, the exact addresses they were sent to did not exist.

Besides that, the cards that came with those letters clearly allowed for access to more than just the two boxes that were confirmed, meaning there were probably several other similar letters sent out in the names of the victims at fake addresses, and returned to their surviving relatives.

For the ending of Episode 1 (the deaths of the 4 cousins), I sort of like the theory someone posted a couple of days ago: the portrait is trapped with, as he put it, not so small bombs, that are either rigged to detonate at midnight, or are activated by the Beatrice they meet. Also, if the scene at the very end really happens just like that, and the "Beatrice" they see really is a human, then it's Kanon, or else some silliness with people coming to the island in the middle of the storm to get around the 17 living people rule.

This has been gone over before, but anyway... The person most likely behind, at the very least, every twilight after the first, is Kanon. Think carefully. He doesn't have any certain alibis. It has been said in red: "All humans on the island have alibis! This includes the dead!" "Kanon didn't commit suicide." "Kanon did not die in an accident."... Nobody ever said "Kanon is dead".

When Kanon was 'attacked' he 'pulled out the stake' that he had been pierced with. But nobody saw this happen. When Kumasawa caught up with him he was lying in a pool of blood, with the bloody stake next to him.

This makes things easy. When Kanon ran to the boiler room he splashed himself and the stake with some fake blood and flopped over. Everyone catching up assumed he had been attacked because of the open door, but he may have opened that himself, or it may have been open in the first place. Since it is almost painfully obvious Nanjo is being bribed or blackmailed (or both) he can be coerced to play along with the dramatic struggle to 'save' Kanon which ends in tragedy.

>>2812613
This is regarding Episode 1 of course. Now, as for people working with Kanon... Nanjo is a given. Genji is possible but it could be worked out without him. And either Natsuhi or Jessica, since they were the only ones who could tell him about the scorpion keychain on the inside of the door. Although, as someone said, it is possible he opened the door, was walking in, and saw the keychain. Since he's trying to set up the 'witch' as the killer, he may have seen this as an opportunity.

>>2812613
But Nanjo himself 'operated' on him (blood was all over him when he came back) with Jessica and George in the Servants' room. George MAY have been moping around so he might not have noticed Jessica might not care as long as Kanon's alive but it still makes it sound a little to crazy. But the fact Nanjo had blood all over him means he must have splashed 'blood' all over him. Now can you do that without a person noticing when YOUR the center of attention?

>>2812651

I really doubt a real doctor would let everyone crowd around if he was trying to operate/treat severe injuries. A device to squirt the blood could be as simple as one of those tacky spraying flowers(minus the flower) that you can buy in most toy stores and any magic shop. As Battler said, Jessica was there to the last minute, presumably helping. I imagine Nanjo would have chased anyone else away, regardless of whether he was helping Kanon fake his death or not.

>>2812684
Actually, a better idea is both Jessica and Kanon threatened Nanjo. But it's hard to imagine that Nanjo would chase both Genji, George, and Kumasawa out... Though, that's under the assumption that he is not a culprit but if he was why would he be so blatantly suspicious?

>>2812317
>>>/rs/The_thing_that_shot_Natsuhi_wasn't_a_trap,_it_was a_real_shooting_murder_with_a_gun_raised_and_trigger_pulled!

[Taken from Lambdadelta in ????? episode 4]

>>2812317
>>>/rs/The_thing_that_shot_Natsuhi_wasn't_a_trap,_it_was_a_real_shooting_murder_with_a_
gun_raised_and_trigger_pulled!

[Taken from Lambdadelta in ????? episode 4]

>>2812317
>>>/rs/The_thing_that_shot_Natsuhi_wasn't_a_trap,_it_was_a_real_shooting_murder_with_a_
gun_raised_and_trigger_pulled!

[Taken from Lambdadelta in ????? episode 4]

(Kept on messing this up since I copied and pasted it exactly and put my own underscores to replace the spaces manually)

>>2812759
>Still messed up
Screw it.

Anyway, anyone have any idea what the hell Ange was hallucinating about in the Boat Captian's house? When she saw something in the corner nobody else could see?

>>2812759
I still say Natsuhi died cause too CQC.

But

WHY would Kanon kill anyone? Especially his precious Nee-san?

>>2812802
vengeance, she was forgetting her role as a servant of the main family.

>>2812728
I don't think it is suspicious for a doctor to want a open area to work in. At the time there was no reason to suspect Nanjo or anyone else anyway, after all, Kanon had been 'attacked' by the 19th person. When Nanjo told everyone else to leave the room, I doubt there were any objections. And Kanon's 'injury' looked severe. Battler didn't question that Kanon was dead, even though he never saw the body.

It wasn't made clear Jessica was in the room or not, but it sounded like she was, so she might have been complicit. She's a good suspect for knowing about the keychain, and she's the person most able to disguise herself as Beatrice to give Maria the letter.

And she and Kanon don't need to threaten. Nanjo already has 100 million yen coming care of the Japanese postal service, sometime after he gets off the island (of course, he never does).

>>2812802
>his precious Nee-san
He won't be missing her much, since they're both the same person.

So it's been established we can only trust game piece Battler's PoV for the island, but do we have any reason to trust Ange's PoV concerning 1998? She is involved in a good deal of magic scenes after all. This puts the exact details of the letters and the events concerning Eva after ep 3 in question.

>>2812802
Maybe she's not so precious after all. He's usually berating her about knowing her place (furniture etc). And bitching about her befriending Beatrice. Except for when he's bitching about how Natsuhi et all bully her.

I never got the impression Kanon hated her or anything, but they aren't exactly getting along great either.

>>2812865

If we take the anti-fantasy view, Ange is completely nuts, so no, there wouldn't be any reason to believe all her story. On the other hand, the question isn't whether magic exists but whether magic was the cause of the Rokkenjima murders, so... uh. Who knows.

>>2812763
This has been bothering me. I really want to know what she saw.

>>2812872
I think that all scenes on the game board, magic or otherwise, have at least a sliver of truth. The trick is finding it,

>>2812890

I suspect that this is going to be left as a piece for future episodes (which means Ange may be back). I don't think the author intends to just leave this thread hanging forever.

Don't know if it was posted before but...
Voices from the anime:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOOYvEDjOAo

>>2812890
>>2812763
I've heard some speculation that it was a pile of Sakutarou dolls, and that's why ANGE was able to "revive" him even though his creator denied his existance. Apparently it was said in red that Rosa definitely created him, and he was definitely unique, so who knows. Come to think of it though, Rosa could have seen the doll in a shop and decided to reproduce it on her own. That would fit the red text, if we take the subjective truth approach.

>>2812872
Ange is just batshit insane. No magic involved, and some points of her view prove it. She can't get the seven sisters to kill her classmates, because she can't kill them herself. Then there's the "magic toxins" excuse. When I read that, I read it as;
"If you can kill them by your own hands, then we can kill them (because you'd be imagining us doing the killings). But because you can't, no matter how much you imagine them dead they will still be alive. And because they're still in front of your face, it'd be obvious that magic didn't work."

It's like when you're a kid, and really wish for someone dead to the point where you're imagining yourself brutally murdering that person. But if that person is still there then you'd obviously be reminded every time you see that person that you didn't actually kill them.

The only reason she was able to "kill" on the island is because she wasn't really killing at all. She broke, it came to the point where she really wanted to teach them a lesson for pushing her around. She came up with the whole scenario in her head. I don't know how many of you used to do this when you were a kid, but I had times where I'd do something similar. Like, if your teacher is just on her period that day or something as is really freaking grouchy. You get detention, a call home, points deducted from your grade, etc. So then you imagine one point where you show her you can teach her a lesson. You imagine yourself being all cool in the parent teacher conference that she arranged, giving proof and evidence of your innocence in whatever the hell she's accusing you of. But in the actual meeting, no such evidence exists, or nobody believes you. Even if you are actually innocent.

That's what Ange went through. She had this scenario in her head where she was hot shit. She got back at them and humiliated them, showed them that she was right, and got revenge all at once. But what really happened is that she was shot then and there.

>>2812925

The red text was

>That stuffed animal is a special stuffed animal
>Made by Rosa for her daughter's birthday, and in the entire world, the only

It gets cut off after only, I'm assuming the red text wouldnt let Beato finish it.... meaning there is more than one sakutaro doll.

>>2812953
>But what really happened is that she was shot then and there.

That wouldn't make much sense. The most accepted theory is that Amakusa followed Ange and killed the guards with the sniper rifle that he brought along, but he wasn't able to prevent Kasumi from shooting Ange at the end.

>>2812963
It gets cut off after only, I'm assuming the red text wouldnt let Beato finish it.... meaning there is more than one sakutaro doll.

Uh, no. "Made by Rosa for her daughter's birthday, and in the entire world, the only" is a complete thought. It wasn't cut off, the sentence was done.

>>2812953

I can relate. I think a lot of people here probably can as well.

That does seem to be a likely scenario for what went on at 1998 Rokkenjima. The other theory I've heard is that Kasumi's men really were being killed, but it was Amakusa sniping them and Ange just imagined she'd summoned the seven sisters to do her killing. But that doesn't really explain how Ange dies. Maybe Kasumi managed to kill her after all?

>>2812953
Uh... on the island I'm sure Juuza or/and Okonogi sniped them.... Not, 'Ange went batshit insane and killed them all with her nails/fists/etc.' bullets were said to have been fired.

>>2812979
>>2812963
That's still a bit vague.
>and in the entire world, the only
Yes, it is the only one made by Rosa. But there are still mass produced ones that influenced Rosa to make it. Although this begs the question of why Rosa didn't just buy one instead and lie to Maria about making it. It's not like she has trouble with lying.

>>2812953
Now that I think about it;
Maybe I'm almost as crazy as Ange, I used to daydream about crap like this all the time. I used to have daydream adventures as well, though I never acknowledged them as real though.

Hadn't realized until I thought my post over again and connected it with myself for more examples.

Why exactly was Jessica following Natsuhi to her room in the first night of episode one, when she gave her the scorpion charm?

From the beginning I found it strange that Natsuhi alone of all the adult Ushiromiyas was spared. The charm is Beatrice's explanation of that, but of course that's bullshit. What if the charm wasn't protecting her, but she was given the charm because she was protected? All the adults were in the dining hall, sitting ducks, but Natsuhi left to lock herself up in her room. The culprit can't really break into closed rooms, so a reason for Natsuhi not to be killed had to be created.

>>2812988
I'm not saying she killed them herself. I'm saying she imagined them dying in her head, she came up with a scene that she looks all badass and teaches them a lesson. It was nothing more than a daydream though, in reality she was shot.

Though I do like the sniper idea, but most of the island is uncultivated forest. It'd be hard to keep track of Ange's movements from far away.

>>2812918
Ange says she now realizes why she's going to Rokkenjima. Well, when she gets there, she has flowers for her dead family, and Maria's diary. She obviously went there to pay her respects, and to reunite with Maria, which she later did. Paying he respects probably wouldn't have any bearing on what she sees in the captain's house, so then we'd have to conclude it was something related to Maria; in other words, Sakutaro, like >>2812925 said.

>>2812969
The problem is there's no way of actually knowing if those black suits really died. I think of it all as just a daydream Ange was having while being kicked and tormented on the ground.

>>2813010
You're not the only one.

>>2813010
I used to do the same thing. Like imagining I have a special ability or mutant power or something that could kill people in unnatural ways so I'm not suspected. But I'd imagine me scaring the shit out of the person and tormenting them before they die. And all of this because they said something to me I didn't like or something like that.

>>2812969
It makes plenty of sense.

1. Magic doesn't exist
2. Therefore, the scene in which the stakes killed everyone didn't happen.
3. Ange died in 1998
4. The black suits were not killed
5. Therefore, the black suits likely killed Ange.

>>2813019
I can't stop a post after I hit 'Submit' I only realized after I clicked. First time I read it I misinterpreted it only once I clicked did I actually understand your implication.

But, yeah, it is one hell of a shot especially in a forest. One of the only drawbacks I can think of in that theory besides this is that this theory is too obvious. by that, I mean anyone can think of this theory if given the right amount of time.

>>2813017
>Why exactly was Jessica following Natsuhi to her room in the first night of episode one, when she gave her the scorpion charm?

Jessica was concerned over her mother's health IIRC, and so gave her the scorpion charm. This is why I think Natsuhi was the culprit in EP1. She learned from Jessica the charm was supposed to protect her from evil spirits. Natsuhi already had a mirror which did something similar, meaning she didn't need the charm to go along with the "witch" theory, but the charm made it easier to convince Jessica at least, which I feel would be important since Jessica would know Natsuhi the best other than Krauss, but he's dead by the first twilight anyway. Further, Natsuhi states she loves her daughter, and wants to protect her, so that could be the obvious reason why Jessica remains alive until the end. Further, Kinzo's already dead by the beginning of the game, but we see Natsuhi "meet" him the morning of October 5. Natsuhi probably imagined the whole scene where Kinzo tells her she may not wear the one-winged eagle on her clothes, but it's in her heart. That enough gives her the justification to proceed with the rest of the murders "for the good of the family".

>>2813065
Since when does Jessica care about Natsuhi's health? Since when do either of them care about each other at all? The backstory implies that they are at least amazingly distant. In a mystery with mass murder and ten tons of gold, I don't think love can be considered a motive for anything.

>>2813085
Natsuhi is still Jessica's mother. As much as she may not like how her mother acts, she still loves her.
Just like Eva loves George and Rosa loves Ma...

...

Right, well, you know.

>>2812953
If you really think Ryukishi meant us to come away from Ange's story going "she's a delusional nutcase", you're pretty delusional yourself. It's pretty fucking obvious by now that the "anti-fantasy versus anti-mystery" binary is a narrative trap deliberately set up by him, and that his actual goal is going back and deconstructing it. Sorry, but a story with the explicit theme of "without love, magic cannot be seen" and an author's comment noting "anti-fantasy people are probably not qualified to love or be loved" is not going to conclude his story with 100% anti-fantasy, portraying everyone who believes in magic as lololol lunatics.

>>2813065
Well, given the fact that Kinzo is dead before that conversation happens I'd have to say there's a strong chance she either imagined it all in her head, or she recalled a conversation she had with him before. Most likely the former.

>>2813085
>In a mystery with mass murder and ten tons of gold, I don't think love can be considered a motive for anything.

Oh jesus, did the entire overarching theme of the story across these four episodes really fly so hard over your head? After episode four, I'm almost dead certain that a great number of the killings were probably motivated out of love, one way or another.

>>2813085
Oh, and Kanon's "vengeance" is a better motive (if you are in on that theory)? I think love makes people do some crazy ass shit, and tons of serial killers and sociopaths did what they did for "love" or for "what was best". The point is they themselves think what they are doing is right, and any justification they can given themselves is good enough for them to go through with murder or whatever. Natsuhi and Jessica may have been distant, but there's no reason to believe Natsuhi hated her daughter. Out of everyone, Natsuhi probably only loved Jessica, and everyone could go to hell.

As for who shot Natsuhi, it could have been Jessica. I believe she was the one who found her mother "dead" first, so she could have just lied about finding her dead to Battler and Maria. Jessica could have finally figured out Natsuhi was the culprit, and Natsuhi probably thought she'd have to then kill her daughter, so she points her gun at her, but can't do it, because as I said, she loved her more than anyone. Jessica realizes she's probably going to die, so she steals the gun and kills her mom.

>>2813112
Seemed to work well with Higurashi

>>2813094
Yep. I don't buy that excuse for one second. Plus it's entirely too obvious for the one adult to survive the first twilight to be the culprit. Especially when it happens every single time, with a different adult. (EP3 being a special case, but the adults still fell quickly except for Eva. EP4 no one knows wtf happened anyway)

>>2812979

No, it was cut off.

>Natsuhi probably imagined the whole scene where Kinzo tells her she may not wear the one-winged eagle on her clothes, but it's in her heart. That enough gives her the justification to proceed with the rest of the murders "for the good of the family".
I'm convinced this was a flashback of sorts. She comes out of the room more composed in front of Eva, she was probably just remembering the conversation.

>>2813065
But the culprit seemed to know scorpions were a magic repelling charm before.

Also what the fuck does THIS in Episode 1 mean? What the hell do you mean Gohda was on duty in the guesthouse? Wasn't he AT the mansion? Proves it. Don't trust anything out of Battler PoV.

>>2813112
In Higurashi everyone who actually believed in the shrine curse was portrayed as lololol nutcases in the end.

>>2813138
Hahaha, what? No. K1 and Shion went psycho-nuts because they refused to believe in the shrine curse and started doubting everyone around him instead. And don't forget how the actual "Oyashiro" issue in Higurashi ended up--Oyashiro the supernatural entity existed, but was entirely benevolent. People were NOT nutcases for believing in Oyashiro, dude.

Ryukish is a goddamn sap. NO ONE in Higurashi ended up being unsympathetic. Takano herself got a huge sob story, her actions motivated out of love for her grandfather, and got off easy being cuddled by Tomitake. The Sonozaki family ended up being well-meaning and generally harmless.

>>2813136
I noticed that too, and just took it as "his normal schedule was to be on duty in the guest house, but the last minute change unfortunately led to his demise."

>>2813154
K1 killed little kids with BB guns ;_;.

>>2813131
Episode 3 is the one that strengthens the theory that there is more than 1 culprit per episode. It didn't seem like Eva was acting that she was heartbroken about George's death. It seemed like she genuinely regretted not being able to pass her wealth to him.

George escapes, someone who was outside and knew what Eva was up to kills George to make sure Eva doesn't get the last laugh, Eva herself doesn't know this but locks the window from the inside for fear that it was opened the whole time or something.