/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Is that some Fragarach in action?

Proof that she's so useless without Shirou LOL

>>2746210

O really ?

>>2746203

Yep

Is this like the emperor's new clothes where everyone calls her king even though they all knew she was a woman?

Can we has HA anime. I want to see Saber and Bazette fight.

>>2746257

FUCK YEAH MAI WAIFU

>>2746274

Have fun animating the whole fight scene over and over again.

Bazett won about after ten match with her.

I still wonder how could she hold off Saber for so long. After all, Bazett was using a fighting style that Saber already was familiar with. If we consider that the snake's main strong point is the surprise element, Saber should have won the match in the first three seconds.

>>2746291
Thats the fun of a groundhog's day scenario. You can just keep doing it over and over again.

Actually, fuck the plot, I just want animated Bazette fights.

>>2746294

PROTIP :

AVENGAR

>>2746298

Play F/UC dude

>>2746277

Your waifu ?

>>2746325
MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION.

>>2746277

Your waifu doesn't have any H scene LOL

>>2746309
but then i have to play a fighter game. I don't want that shit.

Hey I always wonder this, but after I finished HF I feel I need to ask it here :

Why weren't Kotomine invited to Avenger's little dream world when everybody else was?

>>2746360
he's 4th war and not 5th

>>2746354

Why ?

Too HARD for you ?

>>2746360
Cause he is already dead and not a servant.
If either of these didn't stand, he'd be invited.

>>2746367

By that logic

Girugamesh is 4th war too

But we saw him in it, didn't we ?

>>2746368
Same reason i don't bother with most fighting games ... I don't like them.

>>2746367
Gilgamesh was in the 4th war, but is in the 5th.

Kotomine wasn't invited because he was the one who ordered Lancer to kill Bazett after betraying her.

>>2746368
Yes. FUC takes a non-fighting-game-aficionado about two hours to learn the combos necessary to beat easy mode. And then they have to do it with all the characters.

>>2746372

Kuzuki is also dead. Yet we see him.

>>2746376
I didn't even think about that.

Might also be because TM forgot to put him in there.

>>2746294
Bazett fighting style isn't Snake

Kotomine wasn't in it because that's the entire point. It's a dream of an alternate reality in which the only casualty of the Grail War was Kotomine Kirei.

The End.

>>2746360
Avenger doesn't want Bazette to realize the truth and wake up.

>>2746381

I still don't see why that would be the reason he was banned from Avenger's little paradise, considering everybody in it hold a grudge against each other as a Grail war participant.

>>2746390
It's not? Sure looks a lot like Kotomine's in F/UC.

>>2746384
This is why fghtahn is godawful.

>>2746385
He doesn't die (or shown as) in Fate route.
Apart from the Servants, Kotomine is the only casualty in all 3 routes.

>>2746407

PROTIP:

Kotomine's fighting style is not snake

>>2746412

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

You got me there.

So as long as you survived in one of the three main routes, you're invited ?

>>2746394
No. HA is a mashup of the 3rd Grail War, Bazett, Shirou's memories of the 5th war, Angry Manjew wanting to be real, and various moe.

It's certainly not a paradise.

>>2746384

>Hurr I don't have enough patience to l2play a game so the game sucks

>>2746420
You know, I noticed that after spending a bit of time in the other thread. I mistyped because I was thinking about Kotomine due to all the 'Why no Kotomine in F/HA?'.

Kuzuki. Meant to say Kuzuki.

>>2746434

Any place with Bazette in it is a paradise to me ;_;

>>2746434
>various moe.

Seems paradise enough for me.

>>2746448
Like in Kagetsu Tohya, there are bad ways to end the cycle.

Really bad ways.

Simply put, the Loop world is not supposed to be an accurate representation of what has happened before.
It uses Avanger's memory, tries to recreate a different war, borrows ideas from recent wars and involves currently living people.
It's a mess.
Through all these filters, Kotomine does not enter.

>>2746434
>various moe
>not a paradise

Now I know for sure there's something wrong with you.

>>2746443
Didn't say it sucked, said it was too hard for me. Learn to read, jackass.

>>2746451

Like this ?

Go back to face reality doesn't seem like a bad way to end it.

>>2746468

Oh alright,

You sucked then.

>>2746294
Saber was fighting Avenger, she hits him hard and leaves him with only a few minutes to live, however Saber is afflicted with avoid avesta and takes equal the damage that Avenger took.

Saber opts to use her sword to end the battle quickly.

All that's left is for Bazett to time the use of Fraga correctly.

>>2746434
>Angry Manjew wanting to be real

Like all tripfags do, you're pulling shit out of thin air.

>>2746506
I don't pull shit out of thin air...

>>2746506
Part of Hollow is Avenger wanting to experience normal life. Then he goes "Shits boring, yo.".

>>2746506
There is a reason he takes a certain guys form and wanders around nonchalantly during the day.

>>2746519
>>2746531

No, he took his form because Shirou is the only survivor in all 3 main routes.

And we don't really know if the process was really "taking his form" or "possessing"

>>2746513

Sure you do. You're just too fag to realise it.

>>2746736
That doesn't matter. Avenger did want to experience normal life.

>>2746841

He could've become a shitload others if he really want to experience "normal" life.

>>2746942
>>2746736
Others also survive all 3 routes and were part of the war.
But SHirou is in a sense the winner, and teh story revolves around hi.
Makes Sense that Avenger would choose the LEAD for his appearance.

>>2747164

Archer = Shirou

Why not Archer ? He's so much cooler.

WOMEN AND CHILDREN

>>2747580
You are the women.

>>2747591

Queen of Heroes ?

DO WANT !

>>2747228
Archer was Shirou. Not anymore. Now he's the goddamn EMIYA.

>>2747641
So would the Queen of Heroes be a virgin and untouchable by the hands of filthy mongrels, or a lustful woman who steals the virginity of any man she wishes?

>>2747661
Untouchable. Gil-chan has to be pure.

>>2747661
Gil slept with every hot woman in his kingdom, so...

>>2747228
Come on, I think Shirou is a pretty cool guy. A little dorky, but you've got to give him credit for his will strength in UBW.

>>2747665
Her hymen is the most valuable treasure of all.

>>2747727

Go play HF and you will see that UBW Shirou is small time compared to HF Shirou.

>>2746394

Tl;DR He died for our sins.

>>2747842
But his legacy lives on.

>>2746200
She will~

>>2747847

Used goods, you mean.

>>2747727
I'd give him credit for the incredible amounts of gar in the last chapters of HF, I suppose.

>>2747834
Every Shirou displays ridiculous unadultered morale courage and will to fight in what they believe in.
The difference is which growth you prefer.

>>2747882
Aw, the poor girl sat on a bed covered in lotion.

>>2746200
TRANSLATION WHEN

>>2747917
At this rate? Expect it to be done by 2057 at the earliest.

>>2747917

It is being done by some random guy on Beast's Lair.

>Beast's Lair

Oh who the fuck am I kidding, this shit will never get complete translation.

>>2749213
It's being done by the same guy that did the majority of Kagetsu Tohya, if I remember correctly.

Which means it will at least be a decent work.

>>2749213
Looks like we'll never get our happy pajamasex.

>>2747917
"Some people have offered to help me with the translation, but that would take too much time and preparation, so I'm doing this all by myself.
By the way, after two years of work I'm 1/3 done."

>>2749229
>two years
>1/3 done
Go to hell.

>>2749213
Why ? What's with the Beast's lair?

Wouldn't Kotomine not show up because he's dead?

Seriously here, Avenger doesn't know that much about what's gone on, but his connection to the grail gives him a basic idea, right?

So "Kotomine Kirei has died" would show up at some point. So why bother with whatever else happened to him if he's already dead?

>>2749247
He just doesn't need to be there. Karen takes his place.

>>2749240

That place is known for being a hidey-hole of powerlevel fags who don't really do much except make threads after threads about whether ORT be the strongest, Shiki can kill servant, and so on..

>>2749247
Bazett would remember everything if she saw Kotomine, and Avenger doesn't want her to wake up, because he will disappear if she does.

>>2749268

Why not remove Lancer , then ?

He is her previous Servant, your logic failed.

>>2747878
WAIT WAIT
What is this? I never got this

>>2749281
Because Lancer isn't evil and wouldn't be actively trying to fuck over the repeating world for his own amusement?

>>2749290

LOL It's Last Episode patch, slowpoke.

>>2749291

Yeah, and Gilgamesh is normally a good guy who loves pretending to be a shota, rite ?

I mean, you keep failing more and more with lame explanations.

>>2749299
Gilgamesh is good, canonically. He's just an antagonistic hero whose morals are over a thousand years old. Think he's wrong, that humans of today aren't worthless creatures who haven't proved they deserve to live?

He decides to take it easy because he can. He's the King of Kings. And when he takes a potion of youth from his vault, he's the King of Shotas, and also a rather nice kid.

>>2749310

Your previous post implied Kotomine would fuck Avenger's world so he didn't bring him back.

Based on that, Avenger should've known how insane Gilgamesh can be. Still he brought him back.

And that's how your lame excuses for Avenger not including Kotomine in his world failed.

>>2749299
He's not evil though, he's Chaotic Good.

His morals are what they were thousands and thousands of years ago. Just because they don't match the standards of morality and good today does not make them evil.

>>2749310
>Gilgamesh is good, canonically

Yeah, good. From his point of view.

And if you've really known D&D alignment description, you'd known that Nasu did it wrong, since people like him is catagorized as "chaotic evil"

>>2749328
Gilgamesh doesn't commit little atrocities for his own amusement like Kotomine does. Kotomine wanted to give birth to the end of the world via giant Angry Manjew killing absolutely everyone, while Gilgamesh just wanted to create a world where the people that survived would be worthy of living.

Kotomine does it because he's evil and he knows it. Gilgamesh does it because his morals are ancient and his view of the world is that it has fallen to a state where it can't be allowed to continue.

Kotomine would fuck over Bazett and Avenger's little time loop just because he could, if only to cause Bazett more anguish. Gilgamesh wouldn't care about the time loop and couldn't carry out his "Purge the world" plan without a sufficient weapon to do so. So, Gilgamesh isn't a huge concern, and seems to just take it easy the whole time.

>>2749333

By that standard Kotomine is not "evil" either.

>>2749339
He's lawful evil and was wearing a helmet of opposite alignment when he went in to be profiled.

>>2749350
Even Kotomine understands that he's evil.

Gilgamesh just falls out of our understanding of the word good.

He's lawful because he's the king of the goddamn world, and he's good because while his methodology is extremely warped and quite honestly insane, he's pretty much right in that Humanity could really use a good kick up the ass.

>>2749350
Gil is trying to improve the world. Kotomine is just trying to cause suffering.

Why are you so incapable of comprehending the morals of other people?

>>2749348
>would fuck over Bazett and Avenger's little time loop just because he could

Might I ask how ?

Since the loop would've continued and he would've forgotten how to do that in the new loop, anyway.

>>2749351

You know, that makes an awful lot of sense.

>>2749375
Seems like it'd be less actually screwing with the loop and more him just making it a living hell for everyone involved.

>>2749370

It doesn't matter whether he think of himself as good or evil, as long as his true action is evil. That's how he got along so well with Kotomine in the first place.

And you're wrong, Gilgamesh DID enjoy others' suffering. FSN and F/Z has already shown us that.

>>2749394

Or he could've been eating Mapo Tofu all days long at his favourite shop.

Seriously, apart from letting Caren took over his role I don't see any proper reason to exclude him. You're just assuming things and failing more.

>>2749369

>Gilgamesh just falls out of our understanding of the word good.

i don't think opening hell's gate is an act benefitting mankind dude.

the only thing he did right was stabbing Sakura with his gate, even then he can't finish his job.

>>2749421
Well, the world that remains will be one of worthy humans, just like the good old days.

>>2749421
>i don't think opening hell's gate is an act benefitting mankind dude.
It kills all of the weak, doesn't it?

>>2749421
>stabbing Sakura with his gate
>can't finish his job.

If you know what I mean.

I was wondering why this thread has gotten a sudden surge of attention, and then I saw

>white ren
>karesh

goddamn people, stop giving out to these attention whores would ya?

>>2749421
Well. Lets think about that for a second.

Would it benefit the parts of mankind that die off? Not really.

But the parts that live?

The percentage, however small that is able to survive?

A world freed from the billions that overpopulate and deplete it?
Overall, humanity would most likely benefit.

>>2749433
>>2749435

Yeah, back to the stone age with everyone serving him.

He's just too stupid(or biased) to see that human's always been this way. The people in his age acted so because they feared for his power, not being any worthier than present human or anything.

>>2749446
Sup Ozymandias

>>2749395
He didn't enjoy their suffering, per se, just the fact that he was better than them, which he was, according to conventional logic. He was also an honorable fighter, too, against people with honor. He fights Saber straight up, same with Berserker. We have to assume that he tried to off Lancer in the chapel because he assumed Lancer would try the same thing.

He does ambush Medea, but she was less than dirt in his eyes and without any honor. He ambushes Archer, but that's because he considers him a fighter without honor and a faker.

Shirou stands up against him straight on, so, despite considering Shirou dirt, Gilgamesh does give him a sporting chance. Which bites Gil on the ass later.

>>2749421
It used to be considered a good thing, for those that survived it, when "gods" unleashed plagues and disasters. After all, the people that died must have been bad or offended the gods. Therefore, those that survived must've somehow deserved to live.

That's ancient logic concerning the concept of good, bro.

>>2749450
You didn't even read UBW. Congratulations.

>>2749446

You can just spew any shit about your evolution theory fantasy, but in reality no one wants a living hell and being forced to serve an egolistic king who can't even manage to kill a woman.

>>2749461
To be fair, you couldn't kill her, either. And he came much closer to doing so than you ever would.

>>2749459

I did, and his whole idea of cleansing mankind would've pissed off any sane human, saved for some kids trying to act cool without really putting much thoughts into it.

He didn't want to let survivors live freely, he planned to make them HIS slaves, you idiot.

>>2749472
He's the King of Kings, bro. You can't go on being a king without wanting more subjects. And he's Gilgamesh, the most powerful and accomplished of kings. He has all the treasures of the world. More gold than god. The most accomplished hero ever. He's the hero that heroes live in the shadow of.

Who could claim to be better than him?

>>2749479
It wouldn't take much to establish a moral high ground over Gilgamesh, since he pissed off deities left and right.

>>2749461
Why are you trying to move the discussion onto me? What I think about purging humanity or whatnot has nothing to do with this at all. I'm just saying what I believe the character thinks, and how it fits into his morality.


Read that carefully, what I BELIEVE.
Not what is fact, but how I interpret the information we've been given.

>>2749472
Sure, he did. But all that's necessary to fix that is to kill him once he's unleashed all evils of the world.

>>2749479

Except that if his alignment is to be believed and warped, being "chaotic", he wouldn't want to rule over anyone.

>>2749456
>He didn't enjoy their suffering

OH U

Go back to read the whole F/Z scene again.

>We have to assume that he tried to off Lancer in the chapel because he assumed Lancer would try the same thing.

HAHAHA OH WOW

You didn't even really read that one , did you ? He said all he needed is one more soul and since he planned to live with Saber,Lancer is the one to go.

>Gilgamesh does give him a sporting chance.


Now you're just trying to bend things for your cause. He never did that because he felt it was unfair, he thought Shirou was a mongrel who couldn't have harm him anyway. Go play the fuck and read that scene moar.

>ancient logic concerning the concept of good, bro.

Concept made from misinform and fear, not to be valid in the age of PCs, bro.

>>2749483
He maddened Ishtar by refusing to be her consort. That makes him even more awesome, for having the man nuggets to tell the Whore of Whores to piss off.

He also killed the Bull of Heaven and saved his land from it. It was considered a terrible thing by the gods, but I'm sure people didn't like that it was fucking up everything. Gilgamesh was a hero in their eyes.

Any guy that can be so sure of himself that he can say "no" to gods, and actually win against them, IS king. Shame about Enkidu, though. He had no luck.

>>2749489

And I'm saying that you interpreted it wrong, all the while giving more or less false infos you've clearly pulled out of nowhere.

>>2749491

And who might that be ? Since if he really succeeded by that time human would be reduced to live in small numbers.

That is, if we ignore all those Gaia and CG shits anyway.

>>2749496
Oh, he was going to kill Lancer, alright, but he might not have tried to stab Lancer in the back if he knew Lancer wouldn't do the same. Lancer didn't like Gilgamesh at all and had no loyalty to him.

He did give Shirou a sporting chance, even if it was mostly because he was arrogant about his own power. I don't think he considered Shirou dishonorable, like Archer, who betrayed his master and then his new master. At least Shirou, for being a faker, still fought fairly.

And Gilgamesh didn't betray Tokiomi. Tokiomi betrayed Gilgamesh by being utterly useless.

And we're talking about heroes from every age. You have to take into account what people from that age considered good. We haven't arrived at a point where we can say we're the purest people in history, especially considering the hubris involved in making such a comment.

Consider the most important canon evidence: Gilgamesh is the only heroic spirit to not be corrupted by the tainted grail. All the others were taken in by it when exposed. He just shrugged it off, gained a new body, and kept going.

>>2749524
Sure. But the small numbers left would all have the balls to fight Gil.

>>2749500
>Any guy that can be so sure of himself that he can say "no" to gods, and actually win against them

More bullshit. He was so scared shitless when Enkidu was struck down by the Gods, he went out to seek immortality.

And even when he has finally obtained it, he continue to show his carelessness, and cried like a bitch when the snake ate it.

TL;DR He's a spoiled king, stripped him of all his power, and you get Shinji.

>>2749524

Can you point this out to me?
Cause I don't recall anything I've said being outright false. Or at the least nothing being proven as such. It's all just how you decide to read it.

Regardless of how you yourself choose to read the information it doesn't change what the information is anymore than my interpretation does.

>>2749554

Against a dude who had a fucking sword that can split heaven and earth ?

hahaha, sure. People back in his age must be all coward not standing up to him , right ?

>>2749555
He wasn't scared when it was just him fighting. When Enkidu died, it was his only friend. I think the issue is that he never thought about death because it was just him, the absolute king of everything, but when his friend dies, he has to think about his own fate, since he's still mortal.

Losing something you truly care about has a way of changing the way you see things. And losing the potion is a result of his number-one bad trait: arrogance.

>>2749564
Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

This thread is the reason why I hate FSN fanboys. It always devolves into arguing. Saged and thread hidden.

>>2749541
>if he knew Lancer wouldn't do the same.
>had no loyalty to him.

It's Grail War you retard, Servants are supposed to kill each other, not obeying one like a dog.

And Lancer was not the one who started this, Gil did, speaking of which, Lancer has a fuckload more honor than Gil, that's for sure.

>I don't think he considered Shirou dishonorable

*Sigh* just go read the damn UBW route, dumbass.

>Tokiomi betrayed Gilgamesh by being utterly useless

Same as above. I'm beginning to wonder if you're just not reading anything at all and just typing garbages for troll's sake.

>We haven't arrived at a point where we can say we're the purest people in history

genocide is always a bad thing, cuntface. At least in this age we have the freedom to discuss things, even accepting worthless bullshits from something like you did.

>>2749604

Not the guy involving in this "hot" debate, but I think you should've known that jumping into serious argument with tripfags are always a bad idea, since they will just throw out bullshits just to troll you, without any really read on your argument.

Especially this one.

>>2749624

Yeah..I noticed that too. It just pissed me right every time these retards keep telling everyone lies.

>>2749604
>genocide is always a bad thing
Prove it.

>>2749636

I could, Anonymous, but then I would have to kill you.

>>2749604
Of course the point is defeat other servants. But Gilgamesh doesn't backstab everyone. He tried it on Lancer because Lancer has the biggest chance of trying to backstab Gil first. Lancer already considered him an enemy, after all.

I did read UBW. Gilgamesh considers Shirou a worthless mongrel, but that's because he's a faker. He still treats Shirou better than Archer, who Gil knew was a dirty, moral-less traitor. That was my only point.

>genocide is always a bad thing, cuntface.

No, historically, it wasn't deemed to be such a bad thing. Trying to view the past through a tiny perspective leads you to criticize everything according to what you have to deal with today. Back in the time that it happened, people didn't think the same and had different priorities.

I'm not saying it isn't a bad thing, it's just that saying "EVERYONE IN THE PAST WAS EVIL, BAD, AND THEY WERE MASS MURDERERS. THE END." is a moronic way of looking at history that would get you laughed at by any historical scholar.

>>2749654
>No, historically, it wasn't deemed to be such a bad thing

Only by the perpetrators. There has never been a point in time where someone did not view genocide as a terrible thing, as doing so would imply that at one point a mass of people decided "Hey, being killed by these people for their ideals makes them good people"

>>2749694
>There has never been a point in time where someone did not view genocide as a terrible thing
You need to see a psychologist. Maybe they can help you deal with your delusions.

>>2749705

Of course, because the people being involuntarily killed would not view their own death as a bad thing.

>>2749711
>Everyone agrees with everything I think. There are no other schools of thought.

>>2749694
You seem to be suffering under the delusion that history isn't written by the victors. Back in Gil's time, you had a tribe or city, and everyone else was out to get you, use you, or stay away from you. If they were out to get you, you got them first. If they were out to use them, you used them better. If they stayed away from you, you ignored them until you had to deal with them. The ones that survived the best established kingdoms, then fought again on a larger scale.

Life was absolutely harsh, unlike now, where the standard of living is decent for most places, and where it isn't, their little wars and self ruin are contained by large, semi-stable governments. It's no longer survival of the fittest, just an international game of who reigns at the top of the status quo.

>>2749694
So, the Conquests of Alexander, the subjugation of the barbarian tribes of Europe by Rome..

Or hell, lets go for a more modern example.


Native Americans.

>>2749716
>It's no longer survival of the fittest.
You don't even understand what that phrase means.

>>2749715
>I do not understand sociology

>>2749716

If we're accepting modern history, then we'd need to accept the modern conception of good and evil as well.

>>2749718

I'm sure all of them welcomed their death and didn't view their killers as monsters.

>>2749730
>I do not know how to barbecue.
Hey, look, I can pull out completely irrelevant and nonsensical claims, too!

>>2749730
But that's not what's important.

History is unfortunately written by the winner. And so while the actions of the individual and the governments supporting them would be "Evil" They are either looked over or outright glorified by the pages of History.

>>2749742

That is my point. If we are attempting to rationalize Nasu's nonsensical alignment for how things were perceived in the past, then why are we throwing out a view simply because it was not recorded for the future?

>>2749759
Because the Grail gets its ideas for the heroes from stories and dead men tell no tales?

I don't fucking know.

>>2749778

If we're assuming the alignment is based upon the grail's interpretation of stories of the time, then Rider would not be chaotic good as her punishment was recorded as justified, and after she became a true monster.