/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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Krauss and George can kill zombie goats

I have to say, this was the best rendition of the Rokkenjima massacre. Sadly, this was also the most unrealistic, so like 90% of what happened here could not have possibly happened. I doubt that George almost kicked Gaap to defeat, since there was no Gaap. Same goes for Jessica with her brass knuckles, or Krauss with his loser flags powerup.

It's all a fabrication to create a perfect stage that'll force Battler to accept the fantasy. Everyone accepted the witch's existence; even Kyrie told him that a witch truly was there. I'm reading the Tea Party (the most awesome part of Episode 4, imo) to make some actual theories about all the episodes, since there was just so much thrown out there all at once.

The future bits were the weakest areas of Episode 4. Ange didn't really do it for me on her own. I'm probably too much of an Anti-Fantasy person, though.

>>2727420
Fascinating.

>>2727420
Read the ?????? part and have all your hopes dashed.

>>2727443
I've already read it, and it doesn't change my stance on the whole thing. There's an explanation to everything, even for the basis of this entire game.

>>2727420
I will say it with a certainty at this point. The anti-fantasy stance is wrong. After seeing all the red text in the ???? I'm too rattled to form any solid theories.

And honestly, this seems to be a turning point in the series. Up to now, we took for granted alot of things, but I'm getting a different light on things now. The way the balance of power, or will to win has shifted, I'm suspecting that Beato is gonna win. The path to her victory is hidden somewhere in what happened six years earlier, and whatever it is that Battler seems to have forgotten. Battler is gonna keep piling on the pressure in the answer arcs, and the other witches seem to be pretty well against her for whatever reason, and most of the crimes in the first 4 games are one or two bits of red text away from the real truth.

I almost kind of suspect some of the answer arcs might be told more from her point of view than Battlers, given the switch in their roles that is taking place. ... The next game is coming in another month or so. Assuming WH blitzes it, it'll probably be September or October before we see it fully translated. It's gonna be a long summer...

>>2727391


But they didn't have any weppons

so Gorden Freeman went back to an Office

>>2727473
The culprits mentioned were sound, but there are some things that are really unsolvable, like Kanon's death in Episode 1 and Kinzo's death status throughout all 4 Episodes. What's your take on them?

>>2727420
You aren't anti-fantasy.

>>2727479
I also think that the 'tests' given to the grandchildren are an important clue. George came to the island with the resolve to marry Shannon, and noone was going to stand in his way. If he had to kill everyone else to be happy with her he would do it in a heartbeat.

Jessica would rather die than bring harm to Kanon or anyone else, as she feels she wouldn't be able to face Kanon if the rest of the family died, and she couldn't face herself if Kanon died.

But what was Battler's choice? He chose the second choice, the one that remained blank, and said he'd put Beatrice's name in there. Beato was not amused. And what was the significance of Beato's appearance and question? And the massive temper tantrum and general loss of will to live afterwards? The question was posed by Suit Beatrice, and after Battler blew her off, she went to sulk while Meta Beato threw a fit. Going out on a limb, I'm gonna say that Suit Beato is either Jessica or Shannon, and Battler made some sort of vow with them which inadvertently set this whole mess into motion. But then Asumu died and things went all to hell.

>>2727486
For Kinzo: As the game states, he's dead before the game even began. As Battler also said, Kinzo's name was given to someone else. That much hasn't been denied. So, Goldsmith = New Kinzo. The basic premise is established.

Now, as for the proof of Kinzo, I believe that lies within the ring that he holds. The ring is the proof of being the head. If the servants acknowledge this person, and Goldsmith shows the proof, then there can't be any doubt of that reality. Goldsmith is Kinzo, the new head of the family.

That's my theory for the moment, and I'm not sure if I have all my red facts straight. In any case, the Kanon thing is still something I need to think about.

>>2727550
Your Goldsmith theory is sound, but ti raises the question of who exactly is Goldsmith and why is he/she able to inherit the gold and position from Kinzo?

>>2727570
I'm sure that we don't have a grasp of the killer's true motives yet. So, I can't make any guesses to who or why yet.

I'm also positive that inheriting the gold and the head of the family is actually independent of the mystery of the epitaph in Goldsmith's case. Eva is a different story.

>>2727592
The epitaph is a funny thing. For two games it was largely overlooked, and fell by the wayside. In the third game, Eva (and Rosa) actually solved it, though we weren't told what the solution was. Now in the fourth game everyone died so damn fast there wasn't even any time to consider it. Even Goldsmith was like "You guys have had enough time, I'm not fucking around anymore."

Given the events of Episode 3, the epitaph probably does lead to the gold, though ironically, Eva was never able to recover said gold. Which is why the Ushiromiya group is in such a dicey spot. Also ironic is that Krauss and co were imprisoned just down the hall from that same gold and had no idea.

But it also seems to have a personal meaning to Kinzo, or maybe Beatrice. Until it's solved, its anyones guess what that meaning is though.

After the ??? I'm pretty sure that there isn't a valid human theory. Lambdadelta's red truths destroyed pretty much everything that Battler had said in blue. And that "Beatrice isn't going to win whatever happens" is like saying that she will really win.

Also, I think there's more than one Beatrice. Maybe Meta-Beato and Chess Piece-Beato are totally different beings not related with each other, I don't know.

I'm confused, but I really enjoyed the game.

>>2727668
The conversation leading up to Beato's little episode, and her loss of interest in the game, give me a similar impression. That and the ???? gave me the impression that Battler is actually something of the antagonist, the head piece of Bern and 34 as they toy around with Beato until she gets tired of it and dies. Beatrice's motivation runs pretty deep, and her higher than average level of sadism and constant goading of Battler makes me sure she's being brutal to get Battler motivated to kill her. Since his general nature runs against such a thing.

Did anyone else notice when Beatrice said that she had killed the Ushiromiya family hundreds of times? She calls herself a thousand year old witch. Is that how long she's been stuck repeating this game over and over? Battler facing off against her might be a new rule that was recently imposed upon her because there was no way she could lose otherwise. There was still no way she could win, since several of the humans, like Battler, wouldn't acknowledge her, but they had no confront her and beat her game either. Lambda and Bernkastel simply added a losing condition to things perhaps.

Well, since Umineko is going pretty much the same as Higurashi (From what I know, finished Ep 4 of Umineko about a month ago), then the real culprit will be someone completely obvious, yet someone who would have never been thought to be the bad guy. I.E. Takano.

Who the fuck is Beato?

At the end of the Tea Party, only "Ushiromiya Battler" is alive on Rokkenjima. Beato says that she is going to kill him, without the interference of an outsider. And she is not "Ushiromiya Battler". Is she... the real Battler?

17 people only, with Goldsmith, Virgilia, Ronove, Gaap and the Siesta Sisters popping out of nowhere, shit got real.

>>2727668

>Maybe Meta-Beato and Chess Piece-Beato are totally different beings not related with each other, I don't know.

That was made fairly apparent I thought. The conversation between the two didn't really sound like Beato was talking to herself. They have similar goals though, for whatever its worth.

Between the entirety of Episode 4 and Ryukishi's letter regarding Anti-Fantasy and Anti-Mystery, I think it's safe to say that while things have a "logical" explanation, the story is also viewing the pure anti-fantasy view as being pure disdainful shit.

>>2727550
Goldsmith is Beatrice. The give-away was when Goldmisth and Virgillia were down in the cellars and when Goldsmith left the Goats tried to follow him, inspite of the fact they were supposed to have been summoned by Virgillia. This is confused at the end of the episode when Beatrice appeared alongside Goldsmith, and then burned him to death. The problem is, she kills him so casually and no one thinks anything of it. If Kinzo isn't alive at the start of the game, then it's an alter-ego of Beato, which explains how someone who is supposed ot have really shitty magical talent can call such powerful servents out. It explains the ring, and the fact he refuses to show his face all other times. It explains why this Goldsmith is able to freely control all of Beato's servants, including Ronove which is supposed to be contracted personally to Beato. And why, as mentioned earlier, the Goat servents tried to follow Goldsmith.

Witches doesn't exist.
Magic, which covers the truth, doesn't exist.
The world doesn't repeat.
Meta world doesn't exist.
That must be the stance of anti-fantasy, since it's nonsense that anti-fantasy explains something with fantasy.

It means, anti-fantasy have to explain what they are.
And EP4 gave us tons of hints for doing it.

>>2727715
I have considered that this whole drama was set into motion by Kinzo, leaving orders to his most trusted friends and servants to carry out his epitaph.

>>2727716

Battler is the real Battler. But he isn't Asumu's son. He might be Kyrie's. It was stated in red that he was Kinzo's grandson, so at the very least one of the siblings fathered/gave birth to him. If you consider what happened at the time, Kyrie might have been the one to give birth and Asumu had the miscarrage. But since Rudolph was already married, instead of forcing him out of that marrage, Kyrie might have given the child to them out of consideration.

Magic and "uu- uu-" not working for Maria.
I laughed at that scene with EVA and Kazami though.

>>2727750
I should also point out that Ange said in red that Battler was her brother. And the two of them certainly do look alot alike.

>>2727529
My thoughts on Battler's "sin" are very similar. Remember in Episode 3, when they were talking about when Battler was there six years ago? The main trait that they brought up was that he talked in a hilariously trivial way, and that when he left, he "said he'd definitely come back to see us, riding on a white horse". (Something like that.) I don't think Beatrice is Jessica or Shannon, though--I think she's a completely different person who was just completely forgotten. ("Without love, it cannot be seen" blah blah blah, Beato's goal in the game coming down to being acknowleged.) I'm not sure how this fits into "only 17 people", though, admittedly.

>>2727776
CHIVALROUS, not trivial. Dammit.

>>2727776
Gohda is Beatrice

>>2727760
>>2727750
The red onii-chan is not really important, because she wouldn't be lying even if he wasn't her blood-related brother. But yeah, we know he's Kinzo's grandson so my theory is bullshit.

>>2727809
Actually it is important, otherwise Batter could have said that he was Asumu's son, he was raised by her and always thought she was his mother after all. Therefore the red text tell a straightforward truth, some sentimental bullshit won't work.

>>2727822
He never tried saying that, he couldn't say "I was born from Ushiromiya Asumu", which wasn't going to fly even with 'sentimental bullshit'.

>>2727822
You're wright, I didn't think about that. But maybe it still would work because the concept of "Onii-chan" is less precise than "mother".

>>2727776
Without love it cannot be seen... eh. If there was someone else there, Battler isn't the only one that seems to be forgetting about them. If victory for Beatrice is Battler acknowledging her, she seems to be striving toward her own defeat. But maybe that's just her after she's given up, since it was implied that this has gone on much longer than these 4 games. Battler said himself that his memory was kind of hazy. He might not be able to remember just how long this has actually been ongoing.

If we're going to assume that Beatrice ISN'T Shannon or Jessica, who the hell was on the balcony talking to Battler? Their deaths weren't confirmed at that point in time. And there was very little red concerning Episode 4. Jessica could have gone into her room and shot herself at any time.

>>2727843
Well, Beatrice seems to be uniquely fixated on getting Battler to acknowledge her, which I think ties back into six years ago. I just can't buy that it's Shannon or Jessica, because those two already have their own love interests, so suddenly having "Shannon becomes suicidal because Battler doesn't remember their vow" is just WTF, and because I think it would just be ridiculous for Battler to not recognize them by voice or face, even with some kind of disguise.

As for who Beatrice is, Kinzo might have acquired a "third" Beatrice after the one Rosa met died from falling off the cliff. The opening flashback with Beatrice meeting Virgilia, in Episode 3, just doesn't fit with that speaker being the original Beatrice Kinzo fell in love with, or the second Beatrice. The personality, circumstances, and even speaking style in the Japanese are all off. But again, I don't know how to fit that idea in with "only 17 people", so.

Who.... aaaam I?

>>2727915
I want to believe this wasn't a troll.

If Umineko is a fighting game, would Gaap be the most annoying character to fight against?

>>2727479
>The anti-fantasy stance is wrong. After seeing all the red text in the ???? I'm too rattled to form any solid theories.

Oh, this is going to be a massive spoiler for /jp/.
Red text belongs to the anti-mystery side.

ARE YOU GIVING UP YET, ANONYMOOOOUUUS??

>>2727921
The ending parts of this episode were the first time we actually got first-person Beato POV, wasn't it? Unless I'm forgetting something.

I have a hard time believing it was pure troll. There was too much that Battler explicitly didn't see, like the conversation between the two different Beatrices, and Ange destroying Beatrice's ideal world, for it to have all been a trick. Plus, Beato was going out of her way to play the part of demon in the showdown as opposed to tragic heroine, so...

>>2727922
>If Umineko is a fighting game, would Gaap be the most annoying character to fight against?
Yukari's not that overpowered in IaMP or SWI.

What's your favorite ep 4 song?
This, m_stampede and Happy Maria.

>>2727922
Oh please Tasofro, with an SWR level netcode

>>2727843
> If we're going to assume that Beatrice ISN'T Shannon or Jessica, who the hell was on the balcony talking to Battler?
I can't understand your stance.
If you believe Battler's narration, she is such a woman, not Shannon or Jessica.
If you don't believe Battler's narration, you don't have to believe the event of "Battler met a woman who was on the balcony" itself.

>>2727915
;_________;

Take a quick look at the TIPS, and tell me what did you notice...

>>2727843
> If we're going to assume that Beatrice ISN'T Shannon or >Jessica, who the hell was on the balcony talking to >Battler?
Battler was drunk.

>>2727950
No, Battler was drunk after the conversation. Remember, the door to the mansion was locked, so no alcohol for him at that point in time.

>>2727938
Actually, Umineko Daybreak with an emphasis on melee combat would be good enough for me.

>>2727964
Right,sorry - my mistake.

>>2727981
Screw that, I want my Rosa Musou game!

>>2727984
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAATTSSSSSSSSSS

>>2727935
dreamenddischarger and Happy Maria!>>2727949

>>2727949
What should I notice? The only strange thing I see is that it still says Battler is Asumu's son.

>>2727886
Hmm. I didn't take that opening scene of Ep3 into account. I can kind of buy into that theory. If we liken Virgilia and Ronove to Kumasawa and Genji, you could say that perhaps, to a younger child, maybe 10 or so years before, they had that kind of air about them. Maybe Battler met and befriended a young replacement Beatrice. Taking Rosa's account into consideration, Battler was born not too long after the incident where Beatrice #2 died. So they'd be about the same age. As before, Kumasawa and Genji were tasked with taking care of her in Kinzo's absence. And where were they keeping her? Kuwadorian didn't seem to be in use anymore since the harbor was closed down. And she can't be on the island during the game, unless someone ELSE is a fake or a double (the Shannon=Kanon theory).

Maybe, just maybe... Battler had briefly met and befriended a girl on the island. He never learned her name perhaps. Maybe he was led to believe she was another servant. She expressed an interest in leaving the place with Battler and seeing the outside world, and Battler said that, although he couldnt do anything now, he'd come back 'riding on a white horse' and release her from that place. Asumu dies, shit happens, and Battler leaves the family in disgust and forgets about that brief encounter. Beatrice finally tires of waiting and kills Kinzo in some manner during one of his visits. Maybe he tried to abuse her for wanting to leave, who knows. She escapes to search for Battler on her own. Krauss, not wanting the inheritance to be distributed for whatever reason, hides Kinzo's death, leading to the extremely hostile situation between the siblings a few years later when his deception is wearing thin. This satisfies Beatrice's statement that the slaughter on the island is due, indirectly, to Battler's sin from 6 years ago, when he promised to come back but never did.

>>2727984
But Natsuhi/Kyrie/Rudolf will all have cloned movesets.

>>2728006
Beatrice does not exist in EP4 Human world TIPS, as opposed to EP1-3.

How fast can they run!?

>>2728044
Twice their speed of walking, duh.

Even if it was a troll, this really got to me.

>>2727747
Valid points, but i would add Red text comes from the witch and therefore does not influence and anti-fantasy theories. No theories may be based on red text, as anti-fantasy CANNOT be based on fantasy.
That, and the nature of meta-world. I know it's probably Battler tripping balls, but...

>>2728012
Yep, this is pretty much my theory about the heart of what's going on in Rokkenjima and Beatrice's identity, although I'm not solid about her role/culpability in the actual murders. What you're saying seems reasonable, though.

The way Beatrice sidestepped Battler's question of "did I do something to you" was too strange. This insistence of "Beatrice didn't exist to you back then" and answering "it's not something between Beatrice and Battler" when Battler asks her to repeat "is it something between you and me?" Beatrice is a title. She probably still went by her original, human name if they really did meet six years ago, and thus wasn't "Beatrice".

I still think one of the "grandchildren" is Beatrice's (the one Rosa met) son or daughter and this is all some kind of revenge ploy triggered by Battler's "sin"

>>2728033
Interesting. There's 2 holes on the human world tips. One is Ange, because this time she didn't enter the "chessboard" like in EP3 when she helped Battler at the end. But why isn't Beato there? The ritual was succesful and she revived, so she should be there. Goddamn, she even talked to Battler. The "3 Beatrices theory" maybe?

Why is Rosa's family so fucked up?

>>2728062
Magic in itself cannot be used as theory, but as with everything else, there must be some basis in reality for magic to be interpreted in such a way.

That's why you just can't discount red text, as there must be some basis to the words spoken.

Badass

>>2728082
I think in episode 4 something went terribly wrong the the killers initial plan. Just look at the way everyone of them died. Some of the bodies didn't even have stakes gouged into the respective body parts. It's one huge mess and that hints me that something went wrong

>>2728062
Your attitude isn't anti-fantasy.
Anti-fantasy doesn't mean ignoring fantastic scenes.
It has to regard them as "something in the real world."

Ehem.

>>2728109
Well, the whole Ep4 supposed to be a 2 hours long rampage. In the end Battler probably eat some poisonous mushroom in the forest.

>>2728100
The whole fucking family is badass.

>>2728128
Fascinating. Then how would you interpret the red text in the real world?

>>2728109
I noticed that too. So the ritual wasn't properly done and Beato didn't really revive, that's why she isn't in the tips.

Ok, then who the fuck talked with battler?

>>2728162
Beato is in with the rest of the family profiles during the Tea Party.[/spoiler

Is Virgilia basically comic relief in ep 4? Her image seems to have changed quite a bit.

Your dreams are now discharging in your heads manually.

Another thing which I might have missed is: What the heck did Ange realize/see at the boatman's house? Some kind of proof that Battler isn't really Asumu's son?

>>2728170
In other words her existence was denied at the end of the tea party. You should notice that Battler disappears from the TIPS when he gets denied by Beatrice.

>>2728179
She doesn't even had any real image to begin with, after all what you saw in Ep3 was just the part of Beato's North Wind and the Sun

>>2728170
Then we don't know if her disappearance from the tips has any meaning or is just MAGIC.

>>2728161
Reread Maria and Ange's "magic."

I wasn't sure if I was suppose to lol or facepalm.

>>2728189
No. She found either the shredded remains of Sakutarou, another toy that she could rework into his image, or the materials to make another from scratch.

>>2728223
You're supposed to board the Goat-only car and grope Virgilia's butt.

Beatrice's real name is Maria Ushiromiya.

Not Rosa's daughter, a completely different girl named Maria. This explains why the bottled notes are signed with that name despite being written by Beatrice, the odd, suggested presence of Maria's name in the epitaph, and Kinzo reportedly throwing a shitfit when Rosa wanted to name her own daughter Maria.

>>2728233
Oh, and the song Happy Maria, which despite its name, is only used in a scene revolving around Beatrice.

Here's hoping Ange is not blood-related to Battler, resulting in no-blood-related wincest.

>>2728231
Ugyu~

>>2728221
What are you babbling about? Give me proof that Deus Ex Machina exists in the real world. Red text is a deus ex machina, Ryukishi agreed, don't bother him about it.

I mostly enjoyed that crazy antics of this rather long comic relief scene. However it really got cut short and people started to die horribly again just after it ended.

>>2728247
I am Deus Ex Machina.

If you haven't seen it yet, here is the result for the official Ep4 popularity poll.

http://when-they-cry.net/Cgi/vote/umi4/kekka.htm

http://when-they-cry.net/Cgi/vote/umi_combi4/kekka.html

Where the hell did #7 come from?

>>2728255
It's a bit sad that Mr. Boatman is so low. For a character appearing so brief in the episode he go a lot of development. Liked his dedication to his work and how he just didn't brush off ("Sucks to be them they could've picked another time to go!") the dead Ushiromiya family.

>>2728247
Anti-fantasy doesn't admit that the real world is repeating.

And reread Maria and Ange's "magic."

The creator of "records of the game" can say the truth about the record that he/she wrote to his/her imaginary existences, in his/her own "magical world."

>>2728100
The fourth mystery revolves around Kumasawa and Gohda.

In the shed, they're largely unaccounted for.

If you paid attention to the status window of the family, it follows whatever Battler sees.

Since the majority of what "happened" was only conveyed by Battler via telephone, he has no way of knowing what actually "happened". The murderer could have easily disguised her voice as both Jessica or Kyrie and told the story from a fantasy perspective. In that case, all the deaths we've seen, including the bullshit "I know kung-fu" parts are, in fact, bullshit.

For some reason, the killer, whoever it is, really wants people to believe in Beatrice. So lying about how the murder was accomplished is not only easy to believe, but it's expected.

If it is one of the two, Kumasawa or Gohda, then there is actually a reason to hang themselves so that whoever can see their body. It establishes an Alibi. Remember that the instructions given dictated what to do with the two, so it all could have been planned.

1) Kill 6 assholes in the dining room. Capture the others.

2) Have Kumasawa and Gohda run to the children and talk about the family dying. Talking about magic at this point is a little unbelievable.

3) Place a phone call dictating that the two get sent to the warehouse, where fake bodies are prepared.

4) They then hang the bodies and escape.

5) Two people unaccounted for.

6) After the death killings, call the children again and tell them not to deny the witch.

Crucial mistake. Don't drink the damn coffee or any other beverages! Unmoving and unconscious targets are easy head shots from a shotgun. Notice how every episode a larger group of people dies at the same time. This way the killer/killers have less people to take care off and can use various tricks to separate and kill off the remaining survivors. I don't think they would've managed to pull of this kind of stunt if all of those people barricaded themselves, along with the hidden killer/killers of course. The instant someone would want to leave the premises he would be come suspicious. Careful planning between two or more people would be needed and we can't also forget that even partners in murder can double-cross each other. That's the thing that probably happened at some point. I can clearly see Eva killing off her accomplice.

>>2728300
>Anti-fantasy doesn't admit that the real world is repeating.
Quite obvious...
>reread Maria and Ange's "magic."
DELUSIONS EVERYWHERE
You know who killed Kasumi and her goons? Amakusa with a sniper rifle, while Ange was tripping balls

The finished EP4 title screen gives me the chills. You can't hear the cry of the seagulls anymore.

>>2728317
So Gohda is using drugs? That'd be lame, bro.

>>2728352
> You know who killed Kasumi and her goons?
What are you talking about?

>>2728352
She probably fell unconscious after being hit in the head and then Amakusa killed them all.

>>2728352
Also Ange and Kasumi might have died simultaneously. Kasumi from Amakusa's sniper rifle bullet and Ange from Kasumi's gunshot (meaning Amakusa might have been reloading or was simply too late to notice Kasumi picking up the pistol). Ange's death might have instant or she could've died shortly after from the wound she sustained. Another crazy Battler-like theory would be that Amakusa shot both Ange and Kasumi intentionally

Kind of dumb to dedicate 70% of the episode to a single character that gets killed right when shit hits the fan.
What's the name/filename of the ep.4 credit song? Can't find it for the life of me.

Yes, this entire post is slowpoke.jpg, please bear with me, I haven't been on /jp/ much lately.

This thread made me check out the status for the translation patch for the visual novel (which I didn't want to play until the entire thing was translated), and it's complete? Am I missing something or is it completely translated? If so, I'm a happy man.

Thanks in advance, I'll sage this post seeing how as it's slightly off-topic.

>>2728420
It's complete. Better read the whole thing before Episode 5 comes out.

Isn't 1998 completely negated at the end? The pawn isn't here anymore.

>>2728420
It's an ongoing sound novel series. Four episodes released up until now, and the fourth episode's translation was just finished.
If you want to wait until the whole Umineko series is completed, you may have to wait for a while. Like a few years.

>>2728435
All the build up and the new facts revealed by 1998 would lose all validity. Making more than 50 % of the episode pointless. I think the sent out envelopes and the codes will play an important role later on.

>>2728432
>>2728435
Ah, I see, thanks a bunch. Is there somewhat of an ending to one of the already released chapters or are they all cliffhangers?

>>2728432
>>2728435
Ah, I see, thanks a bunch. Is there somewhat of an ending to one of the already released episodes or are they all cliffhangers?

>>2728403
I thought the focus on Ange was great and understood why it had to be so prominent (it meant her role as a piece actually meant something, as opposed to being a standard fridging, plus gave us tons of thematic clues), but YMMV I guess. I want her to stay very dead, though. Shit would suck if she got brought back after the way she went out.

>>2728479
All of them have pretty good and substantial endings. Super cliffhangers would only piss people off since the wait between new episodes is a rather long one.

>>2728491
Thanks once again. I'll be reading all 4 released ones in that case.

>>2728461

If you're calling that pointless, that's like saying every single arc of Higurashi except the last one was pointless...

>>2728591
Don't you mean Scooby-Doo?

In regards to the debate about Beatrices identity. Regardless of her own feelings on the matter, Kinzo may have considered Jessica as the third incarnation of Beatrice. To that end, he may have, when Krauss and Natsuhi couldn't have children, forced them to adopt. Jessica always felt imprisoned by her position as heir to the headship. Extra lessons, no freedom, massive pressure to excel. Add to that her crazy Grandfather, always calling her 'Beatrice', going on and on about her, and perhaps starting to look at her a little inappropriatly. Let's say Battler, sympathetic to his cousin's stress about this, makes some sort of crazy vow offhandedly, saying he'll get her out of that situation somehow. But then, he suddenly leaves the family, and noone hears from him for years. In the meantime, Kinzo starts pushing things too far. Eventually, he calls Jessica to his room, and makes a move on her. In the struggle that follows, Kinzo dies accidentally. Even if he was vital to the end, he WAS on deaths door after all. Jessica is traumatized by this, and the rest of her family, and the servants, decide to hide what happened. The siblings would never understand what happened (or in Eva's case, even care) and Krauss would be disinherited. Jessica might even end up in prison. They might say he died of natural causes, but then the inheritance would be passed on and Krauss' embezzlement exposed. Unable to accept reality, a second personality is born in Jessica's mind, but lies mostly dormant...

>>2728714
When she finds out that Battler is coming back, that old resentment for abandoning her wakes up Beatrice in her mind. She knows all the secrets of the mansion. She knows the servants better than anyone else in the family. She knows all about George and Shannon, as well as how to push Maria's buttons. And she knows where Kinzo kept Beatrice's old dresses. She may even know about the emergency funds Kinzo had hidden. She leaves the island daily for school, and can even stay out of reach of her parents for days on the grounds of bad weather. She is in the ideal position to set everything into motion.

Besides. Hasn't anyone else noticed how similar Beatrice's and Jessica's personalities are? Hot tempered, stubborn, doesn't think clearly when they're mad etc. Also... Not sure if I should even bring this up, but. Don't you find Jessica's answer to the test, similar to Beatrice's?

>>2728714
When she finds out that Battler is coming back, that old resentment for abandoning her wakes up Beatrice in her mind. She knows all the secrets of the mansion. She knows the servants better than anyone else in the family. She knows all about George and Shannon, as well as how to push Maria's buttons. And she knows where Kinzo kept Beatrice's old dresses. She may even know about the emergency funds Kinzo had hidden. She leaves the island daily for school, and can even stay out of reach of her parents for days on the grounds of bad weather. She is in the ideal position to set everything into motion.

Besides. Hasn't anyone else noticed how similar Beatrice's and Jessica's personalities are? Hot tempered, stubborn, doesn't think clearly when they're mad etc. Also... Not sure if I should even bring this up, but. Don't you find Jessica's answer to the test, similar to Beatrice's?

wait wut?

>>2728754
Translation error?

>>2728714
>>2728744
I don't think that Beatrice = Jessica; I still think that Beatrice is just a separate person (the theme of "no one sees her, no one understands her" in this episode was so strong), but the idea that she might have ended up killing Kinzo because of abuse is an interesting one, especially with what the Beatrice Battler talked to had to say about "Kinzo in his younger days".

>>2728403
>What's the name/filename of the ep.4 credit song? Can't find it for the life of me.

Yeah, I'd like to know too.

>>2728754
So... she married into the Ushiromiya family... or something? That can't be right, there shouldn't be any male Ushiromiya members still alive.

>>2728804
discode

Battler thought she was Beatrice because her FACE was perfectly same as the portrait.

If he thought so because of her CLOTHES, it could be Jessica's disguise or something.
But in this case, the point is her face. Although her clothes were different from the portrait, Battler could find she was Beatrice, by her face.

To add onto the theory about Battler's sin, part of the red text that flashes at the end of the episode itself: "If you don't come back" "I'd rather have not been born." dun dun dunnnn

>>2728780
I didn't want to believe that theory either really, but a few points stuck out in my mind. [Spoiler] As has been said, if you take Beato's personality and subtract the sadism, you've got a pretty close match. They appear similar. Its been theorized that Jessica is Beato#2's daughter, due to Natsuhi and Krauss's impotence. And really, does anyone on the island know or understand HER? Her parents don't. The rest of the siblings don't. Maria is too introverted. George has his own problems. Kanon doesn't want to. Shannon might sympathise, but she's too happy with her relationship with George (Jessica's failure with Kanon probably chafes all the more because of that). If, in the mind of a 12 year old Jessica, she felt that Battler, with all his boasts and big promises, was her only ally, then his abandonment of her probably wounded her deep. Just because we've been given insight into Jessica's true character and feelings, doesn't mean anyone

>>2728780
I didn't want to believe that theory either really, but a few points stuck out in my mind. As has been said, if you take Beato's personality and subtract the sadism, you've got a pretty close match. They appear similar. Its been theorized that Jessica is Beato#2's daughter, due to Natsuhi and Krauss's impotence. And really, does anyone on the island know or understand HER? Her parents don't. The rest of the siblings don't. Maria is too introverted. George has his own problems. Kanon doesn't want to. Shannon might sympathise, but she's too happy with her relationship with George (Jessica's failure with Kanon probably chafes all the more because of that). If, in the mind of a 12 year old Jessica, she felt that Battler, with all his boasts and big promises, was her only ally, then his abandonment of her probably wounded her deep. Just because we've been given insight into Jessica's true character and feelings, doesn't mean anyone else in the family did.

>>2728841
I'm taking any scene where Beatrice, or any other magical creature appears with a grain of salt. And which portrait was he recognizing her by? There are two. And the face and overall mood of the two seem subtly different as well.

>>2728987
> And which portrait was he recognizing her by? There are two.
What?
The Beatrice's portrait that In-game Battler has seen in EP4 is only the one at the hall.

>>2728987
And important is, to Battler, her face was Beatrice's and wasn't others'.
"Subtle difference of portraits" is irrelevant to this topic.

>>2729007

theres the normal one and the one that appears in episode two with the schoolgirl clothes

>>2728754

They said it was a translation error.

>>2729034
The problem is that, barring ANOTHER trick by which some unknown person X can be involved, the person Battler spoke to HAS to be one of the 17. The number of people on the island has been confirmed in red repeatedly. So if it isn't Jessica, who the hell is it? We are, I think, beyond the point of silly wordplay and pedantics. We know that there are 17 people on the island. We know that all of them but Battler were dead at the time he died. Barring one possibility I can think of, the theory that Kanon and Shanon are one person. Its even commented on by the 'two' of them during the game. That usually one or the other dies early, either in the first or second twilight. It has never been stated in red that Shanon and Kanon are seperate people. Kanon's body tends to dissapear if he dies before Shannon. Also, it should be pointed out that Kinzo isn't counted among the humans on the island, even though his body is still there. So a fake body could have been prepared, but that's been shot down in red. UNLESS, one of the two, had actually brought the body of the other to the island. If that was the case, a real body could be found to satisfy the red of 'no misidentified bodies'. It was said in red that only Kanon could take the name of Kanon, but the same wasn't said for Shannon.

However, I'm gonna agree with Kyrie's logic on the situation. Beatrice only exists among the other 17 people on the island.

>>2729339
Battler states in red that Kanon was the ninth victim, and it is later stated that Kanon is not a title. So Kanon was alive longer than 8 people, which means Shannon must be the one who died before the beginning of the game, but that doesn't make sense because Kanon's corpse is the one that disappears, not Shannon's.

UUUUUUUU~ ;_;

>>2729339
My guess as to what happened at the end of Ep.4 is that the red is once again being used in a way to mislead the reader. Beato says that only Ushiromiya Battler is on the island. What she never says is "there is only one person on the island." Can we suppose that Battler is killed by the other Ushiromiya Battler?

>>2729357
Well, like I said, I don't really buy that theory either. But that is the only condition that would allow for Beatrice to be an actual individual on the island. Which narrows it down to either someone was dressing up as Beatrice, or else all the scenes she appears in were confabulations. And I kind of doubt that too.

I'll say it in black. Beatrice is among the 17. It is probably Jessica, though there is a faint possibility it could be Shannon. They may not be carrying out the killings directly, but rather instigating them through various means. The primary killer in Episode 1 was George, who killed the others after Shannon rejected him. In Episode 2 it was, probably Genji working with Rosa. In 3 it was Eva. In 4, well.. I'm gonna have to say, if it wasn't one of the 'imprisoned' people, who later died for some reason, it seems likliest it was Jessica, who then killed herself after. After all, wasn't there a fourth choice in that test after all...?

>>2729521
There is a shotgun mechanism behind Beatrice's portrait, set to fire when the clock strikes twelve on that specific day.

>>2729521
And how, praytell, did we pick up an extra Battler somewhere? And even if there was one, how did he get onto the island? Are we back to Kanon=Shannon? There were 17 people on the island. Battler found 16 bodies. The last, if it existed, was at the bottom of the well.

What's all this Jessica = Beato /Kannon = Shannon bullshit?

That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

Just shut up. Shut up and die, you are all so useless. crawl up in a hole and die. Anonymouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuussss!!

>>2729533
Just not buying that Beatrice is Shannon or Jessica. The characterization doesn't match up, and Battler blatantly saying the Beatrice he meets has a face and voice he doesn't know/recognizes from the portrait and having it turn out to be Jessica in a CLEVER DISGUISE would be horrifyingly shitty, to me.

Either Beatrice the human isn't on the island (but her actions are still influencing things indirectly), as someone else has said, or there's a loophole with the "17 people" we're not thinking about. I suspect it might have to do with the fact that dead people, like Kinzo, don't count in the number. If Beatrice the human *is* on the island during the game, if there was a way she could have arrived after the first twilight, or if someone else was killed early (but wasn't dead at the start)...

>>2729691
I don't really like the idea that dead people don't count. I mean, it makes sense and everything, but it's such a kick in the nuts if it's true. It means there could be like seven people on the island that we can't account for.

There's plenty of motive to go around for anyone in the family to do it.

As for the whole "who is Beato" thing? No idea, but we've seen her in episode 2, so she's probably someone new. However, it's not impossible for Kinzo and Beato to have a daughter we don't know about: especially since even in the meta world there was a distinction between meta-beatrice and real-beatrice when there has been no such distinction for Battler.

I've always subscribed to the theory that the first murderer is the same every time, and her motive is to kill 6 random people and blame it on Beatrice. After that, the murderer could be anyone, but there needs to be a first set of killings that distinguish different worlds.

But that's obviously been contradicted with the number of people, so we're back to square 1 with: "Who the fuck is on the island?"

What the fuck is going on? Is this about the VN or about the anime?

I haven't finished yet, but Ange is so cute when she cries.

>>2729739
It's already pretty much a sure thing that "dead people don't count", though, isn't it? Kinzo is still on the island, but as a corpse, so that means he's not counted.

>>2729613
We know that Kyrie and Asumu conceived around the same time, that Kyrie thinks she had a miscarriage and that Battler isn't Asumu's child. It wouldn't be that farfetched to assume that the current Battler is Kyrie's son and that Asumu's son is either the culprit or accessory to some of the murders. As to how this fits in with the "there are only 17 people on this island," consider how someone was both "Kinzo" and one of the 17 simultaneously in episode 4.

It sounds ridiculous, but let's say that the real Ushiromiya Battler ended up in a certain orphanage, was trained to be furniture and ended up serving the head house.... as Kanon, whose real name we still haven't been given. In this way, only 17 people are on the island, "Kanon died" as stated in red could be taken as true in a purely semantic way and the statement of "Ushiromiya Battler is the only person on Rokkenjima" are not in conflict. I'm not sure how this would fit with the other episodes, but for Ep. 4, it might work

>>2729748
go back to /a/

>>2729748
/jp/ + umineko = novel

>>2729787
Has it been mentioned long has Kanon has been a servant? I know Shannon's given ten years of service.

>>2729787
there are a lot of interesting things on this thread i like the beatrice = jessica and battler = kanon, since kanon was supposed to be dead but the body was never found so beatrice can say "kanon is dead" and its ok since he is the other "ushiromiya battler"

>>2729787
Lets explore the Battler theory. If he was born from Kyrie, then there can just as easily be two Battlers running around.

But Battler doesn't remember the sin that Beato thought he would remember. I think that implies that there IS a second Battler, and Beato is just not fighting the right one.

At that point, the "sin" can be just about anything. The old sin had to be something he didn't remember and "something that makes people die". Now, its just "something that someone did that make people die". The first one that comes to mind is him killing Beatrice. That seems highly unlikely.

Also, could the second 4 numbers be another date? It might be the second Battler's birthday.

>>2729844
I don't have a save near the end of ep. 3 but do we know who put the numbers on the door? I've forgotten.

>>2729844
Just how many Battlers, Kinzos, Kanons and Beatrices running around on Rokkenjima?

Adding to this >>2729787, I considered that when Beato said "Kanon died in this room" in episode 2 and we didn't find a corpse, only to have him reappear (if we believe the servants' pov) and kill Nanjo and Kumasawa later. Applying the same premise as episode 4, if Kanon eschewed his furniture personality to become Battler, then "Kanon" dying, disappearing and reappearing could be explained.

>>2729817
Kanon was picked up sometime in the last couple years. Battler hadn't met him before.

If we assume that Kanon is Asumu's son, and that Battler is Kyrie's, that still leaves the same problems we had in the first place. It was said in red that Kanon is Kanon, and noone else can use that name. So when its said that Kanon is dead, it cannot mean someone else is dead and that the Kanon on the island is someone else, can it? Kanon has been declared dead before the end in every game but the first. Even if he IS Battler, I don't think he's got enough opportunity to do all this. Of course, if he is also the heir to the family, he could be Battler, Kanon, AND Goldsmith. And Shannon too, why not. And then we throw in Jessica/Beatrice, and hell, does anyone ELSE want to step up with THEIR alternato egos? Genji? Kumasawa? Eva? Once we accept the precept that everyone could actually be someone else in disguise, where does that leave us?

>>2730121
That entire scene with George was awesome.

>>2730124
You seem to misunderstand my point. Kanon has repeatedly said, "I am furniture," etc. But what if that personality died and a "human" was reborn? Could that person truly be called Kanon, if his only similarity was appearance? It's a specious and deceitful answer, but it's exactly the sort of weasel logic a witch would employ. In other words, I'm not saying that someone is killing Kanon and impersonating him, but rather the personality of the furniture Kanon "dies" and is reborn as the human "Ushiromiya Battler." In this way, a statement given in red about his death could be true.

And on that point, don't you find it curious that he's died and gone missing twice and that the witch has made an especial effort to confirm his "death" in three episodes?"

There's also the fact that Kanon and Shannon remember what happened to them in the previous games.

Can someone give me the soundtrack?

/rs/ don't give me shit. I know I should lurk more anything.. but please help this poor newfag.

There is only one Battler. The entire premise of mutiple Battlers is the smoke screen Beato was blowing when she was trying to convince Battler that he wasn't an Ushiromiya at all. If we disregard anything that wasn't said in red, there is no grounds to base that supposition at all.

>>2730193
Check your Umineko folder, look under BGM.

Entire soundtrack.

>>2730193
If you have the game installed, you also have the soundtrack. Check the BGM folder where you installed it.

Jessica is pretty much the worst character ever.

>>2730193

http://rapidshare.com/files/142359481/umineko_no_naku_koro_ni_op_single__320kbps_bk_.rar.html

On that same note (diff. anon though), can someone post the track list? It's extracting alright but the moonrunes are garbled.

>>2730203
We have nothing said in red saying there's more than one Battler, but episode 3 and episode 4 imply the possibility exists given that they raise certain questions surrounding Battler's birth and furthermore, it's probably the only rational way to explain Battler's death in episode 4. Or do you have an alternate hypothesis

>>2730175
>That entire scene with George was awesome.
George is too much of a romantic fatty to really know kung-fu.

>>2730247
Well, he did surprise me in picking the third choice. My reaction was pretty much the same as Gaap's.

>>2730226

Thanks a bunch.

Too lazy converting .ogg to .mp3 because of some full version register shit.

>>2730185
That further proves that unlike Higurashi, Umineko is much less a loop and is actually a linear story.

>>2730254
It wouldn't surprise me, if he attacked Jessica after choosing the third opinion, and whilst she was readying herself to commit suicide for the sake of everyone else, she changed her mind and decided to stop George, ended up killing each other.

>>2730254
Whatever, George didn't really have to make that choice at all. He's really just a fatty that thinks he can pick up meidos because of his romantic personality, his good handling with children, his high praise earned, his physical ability to protect others, and his likelihood to be very successful...

>>2730292
It's funny how an abusive slut like Rosa is more popular than George, solely by virtue of being female.

>>2730314
There are many females in Umineko that aren't abusive sluts yet much less popular than her. The reason is that she's an abusive slut and we love to hate her.

How come the characters didn't have an updated profile when they died in Ch 4? Except Sakutarou.

>>2730226
That's not the full OST at all.

>>2730314
The tips are updated to reflect the human perspecative of the murders and as such, are only updated when Battler himself finds the corpses. Wait and see.

>>2730333
They get updated later when Battler sees the bodies.

>>2730333
Play the Tea Party for Battler playing detective.

>>2730335
That's the single. If you're looking for the GST, look under your BGM folder. OGM is already good quality wise.

>>2730231
We aren't given any clue as to how Battler actually died. He could have been poisoned. Trapped. Suicide. Accident. Terminal illness (noone thought of THAT to explain why the last person always dies too). A natural disaster (lol volcanic gasses). Hell, in some cases, the real killer might just have a heart attack from the exertion of carrying all the bodies/killing/running around. I should point out that when Ange went to the Rokkenjima, she never even found the mansion, the entire area was inaccessible. The entire mansion could burn down, blow up, or be filled with poison gas with Battler inside, on a timer set by someone who died hours or days or even years before. The news in Ange's time regarded what happened as an 'accident' and Eva only survived because she was in another mansion entirely. The message bottles tell a fantastic tale, but a tale is all it is. We really have no idea what occurs in the final hours on that island. But noone, not even the killer in all likelihood, comes back alive from there.

Bampu!

>>2730348

Still need proper tags...

Here's a thought: Credits said that Ange died in the year 1998, but her TIPS profile doesn't change if you hit "Execute". How did she die then? Kasumi's shot? That whole thing about the stakes showing up and slaughtering the black suits didn't happen and she got her face pounded in?

>>2730498
Also curious is the thing she saw in the boat captain's house.

>>2730498
>That whole thing about the stakes showing up and slaughtering the black suits didn't happen and she got her face pounded in?

My guess is this.


>>2730428
This is what Beato says in red: "Ushiromiya Battler, at this time, I will kill you. And right now, there is no one on the island other than you. The only one alive on this island is you. Nothing outside the island can interfere in any way. And of course, I am not you. However, I am here now and will kill you." It's definitely not an accident, terminal illness or suicide in that case, which means that someone other than himself killed him.

>>2730498
Doesn't matter anymore, everything 1998-related is sent to the Tesseract. Meta-Ange dies, her world with it.
That said, I can't believe the game went through the trouble of introducing all new characters to have them negated just like that.

>>2730543
But Beato never said that Beatrice will kill Battler. And at the moment, there were two Beatrices, one impaled on the blue stakes and the apparition.

>>2730543
The USA decide Battler is a threat and launches an ICBM to him.

>>2730572
That statement is in reference to what's happening on the game board, not the meta-world where they're debating the existence of witches. We can assume that Beatrice's statement is something of a declaration that "the piece representing you is now dying in the game."

>>2730591
Eh, shit. Missed the "Nothing outside the island can interfere in any way." part.

>>2730593
Well, I'm not going into denying witches. I'm merely saying that Battler did indeed die. But what killed him was not another human, nor himself, nor an outside influence, and it was not the Beatrice who he was fighting with.

Granted, this is just a crazy thought, and it's sort of going off on its own tangent.

>>2730598
The ICBM silo is on the island. And it's automatic.

>>2730543
Certainly correct, I made the terms for the last person dying to also account for the other games as well. Something like poisoned food (he was eating in the kitchen), a bomb or incendiary device on a timer, or some general trap are all possible.

Also, here's a fun theory: It's been said in red over and over how many people are on the island. But those that are dead aren't among those counted, since Kinzo's corpse is still there. Kinzo had a long tunnel built between his mansions so he could come and go without anyone witnessing. Could there also be a tunnel off the island? To Niijima or some other small island? If we aren't counting the dead, there could be any number of extras running around after the first twilight and that would not disrupt the numbers. But I'm forgetting, was it ever said in red that there was no way on OR off the island? Could someone take a tunnel to the island on the 5th, or go on a suicidal boat trip and land sometime after midnight, thereby avoiding the problem of disrupting the count?

>>2730598
If someone came onto the island though, they wouldn't be interfering from 'off the island'...

>>2730598
Oh, oh, I've got it.

Kinzo rigged the entire island with remote-detonated mines, and all the mines are being controlled by a computer called B.E.A.T.R.I.C.E., which is set to detonate all mines at precisely midnight.

>>2730511

Oh, goodness. This is what's been bugging me all day...

>>2730543
Well, now we're getting into how we interpret what exactly Beatrice is. What if she's the island itself? Ange tried to reach the mansion but wound up at a big cliff face, and realized if she went on she wouldn't have any easy way back? Did part of the island sink or collapse in some way? You could interpret that as "Battler being alone" and then he's killed by 'Beatrice' when the ground opens up under his feet.

>>2730511
>>2730657
I'm pretty sure what she found, in that shop with all the futons, was either a bear with the same general design as Sakutarou, or else materials to make a new one. I'm not sure how it could have happened, but I suppose the captain could have somehow acquired the remains of the original and restored them himself. That was how Ange was able to 'resurrect' Sakutarou. Her shock was due to the extremely low probability of her finding such a thing what that exact timing, hence her 'fate' comment.

>>2730652
The final part of Umineko will pit Battler against B.E.A.T.R.I.C.E.
"SIX YEARS AGO, YOU TOOK MY CAKE! THE CAKE IS A LIE! NOW DIE!"

>>2730543
Does that mean the Beatrice is the storm or a lightning bolt?

>>2730682
I have also seen that theory that Beato is in fact the storm as well. I like my island theory better though. And, like in Higurashi, I think there is some extra mechanic that ensures noone on the island, or at least in the mansion or guesthouse, survives. Aside from Eva in Episode 3, safe in Kuwadorian, laughing her way to the bank with 10 tons of gold.

>>2730682
Hurricaine Beatrice, tossing stakes in the wind with amazing precision.

Kanon is Battler
Kanon is also Shannon
So, being Shannon, his sin was breaking that mirror at the shrine in ep2
George loves Shannon so in the end he loves Battler.
George is Kinzo who is Beato who is Jessica and then everything fits.

Kinzo starts dead at the beginning of the games, someone else could probably start too; a trap within a trap.

And Natsuhi's headaches probably don't mean anything, but I wouldn't put it past Ryukishi.

bump

All of the music during the battles were awesome.