/jp/ - Otaku Culture

pics of IRL shrines that look like they could be the Hakurei Shrine are also welcome, for inspiration.

or japanese mountain ranges to get ideas for the skybox

in the meantime, I'll contribute what I have to keep the thread alive.

chapter 17 of OSP features the fairies searching throughout the shrine, so there's that too

so as I understand it so far, there are actually 3 rooms inside the shrine.
* The "earth floor" (pic related)
* The main living area which is usually empty save for a table, some pillows, or sometimes a futon. There's also a small altar at the top of one of its walls
* The inner sanctum, that's kind of a small storage room where lots of stuff are piled up, there's the yin yang orb in there as well

I liked the Hakurei Shrine in Minecraft because it’s destructible.

Read the chapters of WaHH near the end when Reimu died and Marisa was investigating the shrine

>>23410828
I'll be doing that thanks.

>>23410828
wait ol' up a sec, this place is in the main shrine? where would it be? It doesn't look either upstairs, underground, or on the base floor. Also there's no visible stairs or ladders, and the area looks way larger than the surface shrine.

>>23410040

>1. Torii - Shinto gate
>2. Stone stairs
>3. Sando - the approach to the shrine
>4. Chozuya or Temizuya - fountain to cleanse one's hands and face
>5. Toro - decorative stone lanterns
>6. Kagura-den - building dedicated to Noh or the sacred Kagura dance
>7. Shamusho - the shrine's administrative office
>8. Ema - wooden plaques bearing prayers or wishes
>9. Sessha/Massha - small auxiliary shrines
>10. Komainu - the so-called "lion dogs", guardians of the shrine
>11. Haiden - oratory
>12. Tamagaki - fence surrounding the honden
>13. Honden - main hall, enshrining the kami. On the roof of the haiden and honden are visible chigi (forked roof finials) and katsuogi (short horizontal logs), both common shrine ornamentations.

>>23422453

>>23422500

>>23422519

>>23422453
>>23422500
>>23422519
>>23422525
Those are some good references. Reading through all of WaHH I also found the Moriya's auxiliary shrine which rarely gets depicted if at all. I guess it'd be located near where those Sessha/Massha shrines are.

Pretty detailed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinto_architecture

>>23422562
Locations for that stuff is flexible. From what I remember of Kushida Jinja, Fukuoka:
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/櫛田神社_(福岡市)
>Fancy archway as you come in, with a wheel of zodiac animals above your head. Torii for other entrances/exits, but the area isn't completely walled off and you can get in/out without using them.
>Hand-washing pavillion in the central plaza
>Services held in main building at the back of central plaza. Those white boxes in the pic are coin-operated fortune dispensers
>Building selling charms on the right
>Alley on the left including storage for their parade float
>Ema boards along the back of the main building
>Inari shrine at the back-right with a bunch of torii in front of it

>>23422562
Locations for that stuff is flexible. From what I remember of Kushida Jinja, Fukuoka:
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/櫛田神社_(福岡市)
>Fancy archway as you come in, with a wheel of zodiac animals above your head. Torii for other entrances/exits, but the area isn't completely walled off and you can get in/out without using them.
>Sacred tree to the left of entrance
>Hand-washing pavillion in the central plaza
>Services held in main building at the back of central plaza. Those white boxes in the pic are coin-operated fortune dispensers
>Building selling charms on the right
>Alley on the left including storage for their parade float
>Ema boards along the back of the main building
>Inari shrine at the back-right with a bunch of torii in front of it

>>23422876
So looks like most shinto shrines feature a haiden and a honden.
However the Hakurei Shrine is mostly depicted with only one main building.

>>23423036
Also there's this warehouse, that used to be depicted next to the shrine in 7.5, but appears to have changed looks and location in the more recent materials, being now further back, and never in view of the shrine at the same time.

>>23410040
Look at how stuff like Memories of Phantasm handles it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVHl9ksmkLU

And there's already a Shinto shrine or two in VRChat which might be useful for reference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vli8wPK2yIY

>>23423953
looking intro of Memories of Phantasm reminds me how weird it is that the shrine is supposedly "facing" the barrier, but the road that extends in front of it leads in fact to the Forest of Magic/Human Village.

>>23424344
There's a good view of the other buildings at 0:25

>>23427173
1:45 has a different layout, with a small structure to the left, and what looks like a path obscured by trees heading to the right. Only one building is clearly visible in birdseye shots, though there's some smudges around it, and smaller structures might be obscured by trees.

3:10... might take place in the building that's shown on the right at 0:26?

>>23427265
More footage of the building Reimu seems to live in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNVxmThy3nM&t=4m49s (4:49)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUgL6L030XY&t=16s (0:16)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_zNH2snfW4&t=3m41s (3:41, 4:16)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w337ij3wtXA&t=2m38s (2:38, 3:14, 8:09)
Reimu mentions at 8:04 that this is the back door

Another shot of multiple structures on the shrine grounds, including what appears to be a Chozuya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUgL6L030XY&t=11m57s (11:57)

The start and end of the EoSD tellings also show the inside of the Moriya Shrine.

>>23423036
The building we usually see looks more like a haiden than a honden (and shrines can lack a honden, especially if they're devoted to something large or immovable). Did any of the chapters of WaHH/FS where Reimu is briefly successful show worshippers inside a shrine building?

I don't really understand what you are doing but good luck anyway.

>>23428901
10 years ago I made pic related for TF2.
Now I'd like to do something similar to the VRChat map from >>23423953 for SteamVR Home (and maybe VRChat as well, or a custom HL:A map)

The goal being to have the shrine fully explorable while having as many references to canon material as I can.

The issue is that even in canon manga the shrine's layout varries a lot, so I have to fill in the blanks a bit.

There are a few things that are consistent though throughout the works, namely, the shrine is probably composed of a single building + a warehouse.

I'll sum up my findings in each works bellow.

>>23427490
>Did any of the chapters of WaHH/FS where Reimu is briefly successful show worshippers inside a shrine building?
nope, it looks indeed like the shrine is one big honden that also doubles as the miko's lodging quarters.

I'll start my analysis with the Fairies mangas (EaLND, SaBND, OSP, VFiS)

As we can see here the shrine is the only visible building (at least that's above tree level)

It's perfectly square, although we can notice some rooms separations on the right (south) side.

>>23429679
This pic helps a lot to get an idea of how level the shrine is compared to the surrounding mountain, that'll help a lot to build the skybox.

>>23429694
Thanks to those pics, we get both the shrine and the fairies' tree in the same shot. The tree being right on top of Gensokyo's boundaries, we can deduce that the warehouse that's located behind the shrine cannot be further than that.

Also we can extrapolate the location of the onsen near the shrine and rough location of the Forest of Magic/Marisa's house from that drawing on the right.

>>23429737
Although sometimes the same work can contradict itself. For instance the two images here seem to show the exact same side of the shrine, despite looking relatively different.This is where I have to assume that the author took some artistic liberties, or that there was a second building all along, but the later wouldn't really make sense in the context of the rest of the manga.

>>23429807
for instance on this one, the wall at the back to the right is just completely gone. you could attribute it to the shrine getting rebuilt after SWR but the manga supposedly takes place after it in its entirety.

>>23429856
So here's my interpretation of the shrine's structure in the Fairies mangas. To compliment >>23427490 's remarks, Star Sapphire in chapter 17 of Oriental Sacred Place literally refers to the room behind the donation box as "本殿" (Honden). However the inside appears to be only some sort of storage room (though it does house Reimu's Yin Yang orbs)

And that's about it for the fairies mangas.

Then comes WaHH, which completely throws this design and other classic designs of the Hakurei Shrine out the window. I still don't know for sure where every rooms are in WaHH.

I mean, look at this mess...

>>23430101
Also the shrine in WaHH seems to have some barriers at least at the front and on the side, so the back would be the only place where to sit down to drink some tea.

>>23430153
I haven't finished reading all of Forbidden Scrollery yet but it seems to feature a more square shaped shrine. So I think mine will take the Fairies' as basis.

>>23430171
This looks like a side building, if Reimu can see Kosuzu coming

>>23430831
A long one at that, which looks like a Shamuso >>23422453

>>23430845
This area shows up a few times in FS, and appears to have living space inside. Marisa is shown reaching it by walking left from the shrine entrance, though she could have gone all the way behind.

>>23430956

>>23430956
The main building is consistently shown with a concave roof, and this area without one.

>>23431027
Here's the back area again, though come to think of it in >>23430831 she might just have heard her.

>>23431042
Main building looking way too small to have that area attached to it.

>>23430101
>>23430171
>>23430845
>>23431042
I'd interpret every appearance of the stone doorstop as being the same side of the same building, which has a shallow-sloped roof and sometimes shutters installed depending on the time of year. Reimu is standing on a wide, shallow roof when she talks to Yukari near the end of FS, which could be this building but might not be the shrine at all.

>>23423090
Here's the storehouse in Forbidden Scrollery

>>23431160
shrine in the last panel of this page just looks weirdly small. can't be right.

>>23431307
A big-looking shrine, but also another structure visible on the right (in addition to the stage, which might be dismantled sometimes)

>>23431480
The shrine's design is pretty consistent throughout this arc, but its size and distance from the stage isn't.

>>23431042
Another view showing the corners and laundry pole

>>23429598
I've probably spent hundreds of hours here on vs saxton hale, thanks anon.

>>23431027
That's right, that's a sound argument for them to be two different buildings.

I think it's kind of amazing that despite how central and recurrent the shrine is in any piece of Touhou Media, its design and number of buildings just doesn't have any consistency.

In hopeless masquerade there is no "wooden catwalk" going around it either, only around where the donation box is.

Also the "second building" is never seen in full view, or in the same shot as the shrine which adds to the confusion that they might be one and the same (which they appear to be in some instances of some mangas/fanarts).

Things like this animation also reinforce the idea that there is only one building https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy_084Qgr5c

On the other hand, Forbidden Scrollery seems to take a more realistic approach, as IRL shrines have multiple buildings, and the style is overall grittier.

I might go with the single building on my map for two reasons:
1. Less work, less space to polish.
2. Not enough references in Touhou media of what the second building would have inside, I feel that it'd be overall pretty boring to be in.

>>23431741
I'm glad you did. I hope you played on vsh_hakurei_winter_v2 as well which is the latest and most polished version of the map.

I wish the Palanquin Ship map had gotten as popular but its gameplay was a bit too gimmicky. Any Saxton player who doesn't understand how strafing works in Source will just keep floating around the ship until they fall to their death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHMbDkMBgBY

>>23434463
Fairies manga definitely looks like a single building

>>23434463
>I think it's kind of amazing that despite how central and recurrent the shrine is in any piece of Touhou Media, its design and number of buildings just doesn't have any consistency.
That's nothing compared to the design of Marisa's house in FS compared to everywhere else.

>>23434524
Still highly inconsistent though, those barriers on the side only appear in chapter 2 of SaBND. By Oriental Sacred Place the design has become a bit more consistent.

>>23434587
The SDM also changes design in each manga (I kinda like SSiB's design the most since I based a map around it)

Strangely, the only structure in gensokyo that appears to keep the same design, wherever it appears is Kourindou, which looks the same way in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense, in Urban Legends in Limbo, and in the mangas.

>>23434762
SDM also seems to move from an island in Misty Lake to its coast

>>23434463
Other references I can think of
>Crawlspace under the shrine with signs of Clownpiece habitation, like having her lit torch lying around
>A doll nailed to the wall somewhere that's hard to spot (e.g. obscured by bushes)
>Shinmyoumaru's "house"
>Kokoro's stage, with ladders. Include a burnt-out candle in the corner, left over from the ghost stories chapter of FS
>Four seasonal variants of the map, because Japan is obsessed with that. One of them decked out for hanami. Maybe another with merchant stalls along the path.
>Is it possible to create a seamless one-way looping hallway in 3D, and apply that to one of the rear paths away from the shrine?

>>23434890
The manual of Touhou 6 explicitely says "In the very center of it all [the misty lake] is an island, rejected by mankind simply because they could not live there. On that island is a mansion; one of few windows."

Not sure why it began to appear more and more on its coast.

shinmyoumaru's house is planned. clownpiece references as well. Is the doll a reference to something specifically?

I don't think Kokoro's stage would be still up past the festival.

Seasonal and day/night variants are planned (I did both at once with the TF2 Hakurei shrine, as the winter version is night time)

>Is it possible to create a seamless one-way looping hallway in 3D, and apply that to one of the rear paths away from the shrine?

Probably. Increasing the fog when the player gets closer to the border (past the Fairy's tree) would make it duplicate a small area and teleport the player back every time they move too far without them even noticing. I used a similar trick for the TF2 SDM map for when players come inside, while having the mansion be much bigger from the inside than from the outside. Someone did a nice research video on it too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BGSM4T9E0E

>>23434996
>Is the doll a reference to something specifically?
To a tree, not to a wall. My mistake.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Bohemian_Archive_in_Japanese_Red/Alice
https://hyakumonogatari.com/2013/01/03/ushi-no-koku-mairi-shrine-visit-at-the-hour-of-the-ox/

>>23429737
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Gensokyo_Geography
Ongoing series in the Touhou magazine about trying to piece together a map of Gensokyo

>>23410040
That sounds like a pretty interesting undertaking.

Stuff like this seems like a more interesting use of the VR technology to me than the gaming media. Might also have something to do with me getting violently ill everytime I try to play a game with those devices.

>>23429737
>The tree being right on top of Gensokyo's boundaries, we can deduce that the warehouse that's located behind the shrine cannot be further than that.
That's not thinking with boundaries. The shine itself, for instance, was said to exist on both sides of the boundary and be a point of entry/exit. It's probably better to think of the general area around the shrine as making up part of the boundary than the boundary as some circle closing Gensokyo off.

>>23434890
I feel like there's some deep meaning to Kourindou's location looking the same as always. Maybe because Rinnosuke as a character is very...consistent? If that's the right word.
That's his whole thing, he's lived for quite a while and pretty much does the same thing everyday, but he's okay with that. Unchanging.
Though it's probably just because artists just use the same reference for Kourindou over and over versus picking out random shrine designs and calling it the Hakurei Shrine.

>>23436320
Meant to respond to >>23434762 I have downs syndrome please excuse me

>>23435956
Yep, I already read all of them on the wiki, shame the last one doesn't have visible illustrations. It's good to know that the shrine is at the East of gensokyo, since then it probably faces west, which will help when placing the sun in the map at various times of day.

>>23436042
Well it's also due to recently acquiring a Valve Index, having beaten Half-Life:Alyx and being desperate for more quality content, so I'll just make my own.

>>23436124
it's a non-euclidian "boundary of sense" in-universe. But we have to make do with what a game engine lets us display.

>>23436320
That's probably it, though in the pic I posted >>23434762 the tall part of the building on the left wasn't visible on the original Perfect Memento pic, and looks eerily similar to the warehouse behind the Hakurei Shrine (which somehow has the exact same look in both the Fairies mangas and WaHH) (see >>23423090)
Is that some standard look that all warehouses should have in Gensokyo? I want the deep lore.

So this is roughly the area that the map would encompass, not counting the skybox.
For the first versions I'll focus on the shrine itself.

The next step now is measuring actual lengths and drawing stuff to scale. So that I can convert it into the hammer units used by Source.
Scale is way more important in VR for it to be believable.

WaHH being confusing again

>>23437000
That door, by the way, doesn't lead to the storeroom - that's still depicted as a separate building in this chapter.

I don't care if its canon or not i hope you included him.

>>23437000
the shape of this building makes no sense whatsoever.

>>23437030
he was included on the TF2 map, I was considering moving him to the Onsen area instead of the pond.

>>23437020
>that last panel
since when the Sando was made of wooden planks jesus, and honesly I don't think I have ever seen any depiction of the shrine with a hedge THAT close to it
it's possible that ZUN allowed Aya to have lots of freedom in designing the shrine?
Also this: have you seen IaMP's and SWR's title screens? It has a small elevated warehouse really close to the shrine itself, which is also visible in TouhouCraft, and the Sando leading the the main shrine is made of 8 blocks of stone in width with smaller stone trimmings. Don't forget the position of the stone lanterns, which is located within the area made of stone blocks.

>>23436385
>Is that some standard look that all warehouses should have in Gensokyo? I want the deep lore.
no lore on this, I assume. It's just one of many patterns for traditional japanese houses using dark wood with white plaster.

>>23440485
>Also this: have you seen IaMP's and SWR's title screens?
well of course, the TF2 hakurei shrine was partly base on that design (as well as SSiB's and the warehouse was based on A Summer Day's Dream which had it locate in the same spot as IaMP, but larger)

HM features a more recent version of the shrine by the same company. I'm not as much of a fan of its design as the fairy's.

Chapter 1 of WaHH shows Reimu using the space behind the donation box in the way it's probably supposed to be used. But WaHH's art was really messy at the start - anyone have the tankoubon version where it was redrawn?

>>23442095
OP here, it looks just the same in mine.
Also since there's no "official" goshintai at the Hakurei Shrine I don't think I'll have to bother with this display. Though Star Sapphire found the Yin Yang orb inside the Honden which implies that it might actually be the shrine's goshintai, and reinforce the fact that the Hakurei God is a god of youkai extermination.
And since people revere gods that they fear, it suddenly make sense that youkai would frequently visit the shrine and respect it. Though its "poor" location also accounts for the low human visits count. Maybe Yukari encourages youkai to scare human villagers on the path to the Hakurei Shrine to prevent it from gathering too much faith and break the balance of Gensokyo.

I mean, if you look at how fucking powerful Reimu is with how little faith her shrine is collecting, a prospering Hakurei Shrine would be the doom of the youkai.

Did some measuring today. Sukuna's house will be inside the living room, while the Honden area is gonna will contain more references to the games.

>>23444222
actually my design for the outer wooden doors make no sense, they are supposed to slide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CykZME3z6vE

All appearances of the shrine in WaHH chapter 1

>>23458385
Chapter 2

>>23458398
Chapter 3

>>23448608
Those doors seems could be in/uninstalled fairly easily, dont worry much about them

>>23458405
Chapter 4

>>23460328
I've already read all of WaHH but I'm still unable to completely figure out where everything goes and especially inside the shrine, see >>23430101

I'm still gonna reuse some of its ideas but mostly for minor stuff than the shrine's whole structure.

Did some more research, those wooden storm shutters are actually called "amado", while the paper doors are called "shouji".
Also the wooden porch that goes around the shrine is called an "engawa"

The amado are stored in those kind of boxes that I had seen in some of the manga chapters.

Videos of shrines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9CWKwFmgG0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M60Jju0O0n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MbkyabTqZ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWxgh0fPdkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZJPGjyJhJM

>>23410040

>>23410263
Very comfy

I'm making a bit of progress each day. The textures were very quickly put together with some google image searches. I'll revamp them later.

>>23491273
>That floor
Do you have a source for that layout? Because generally tatami mats are 2:1 and all the same size, maybe with some 1:1 mats to fill gaps. To the point where they're used as a unit of floor area (e.g. a real-estate agent will mention a "six-tatami room").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatami
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washitsu

interesting thread

>>23497592

>>23494815
that's the standard 8 mats layout, that can be seen on a few occasions in SaBND and OSP (or in VFiS in pic related).
I'm using indeed the 2:1 ratio of 1.82m x 0.91m
(or 72 x 36 Hammer Units)

>>23505953
That’s a totally different layout my dude

>>23506098
nah it's just that the temp textures I gave to the tatami only have dark lines along the long edges, so you cannot see the separation between the two tatami on the top right. Also the doors are hiding the other separations.

>>23410040

>>23429737
>Also we can extrapolate the location of the onsen near the shrine and rough location of the Forest of Magic/Marisa's house from that drawing on the right.
That's made by fairies, very dubious

>>23497618
The coloring and fire in the middle makes this image look like dark souls or something

>>23519741
touhou is a soulslike game

>>23410040
That's some dedication you have there anon.

>>23520169
Imagine if ZUN actually made a soulslike Touhou game.
Never mind, he can't handle the budget.

>>23539257
Just ask tasofro to turn 17.5 into a hollow knight clone

>>23410052
Cute

>>23410040

>>23410040

>>23539257
Yeah, he’d spend it on beer for his bar and still have enough to pay himself to work on it.

>>23410040
I've got no useful images to post for you right now, but I just wanted to thank you for your dedication. Good luck!

>>23410040
idc what else but you need a kotatsu in there

>>23410040
cute

>>23611913
And burner.

>>23630488
And a burner.

>>23410040

>>23635755
Right

https://info.yukkuricraft.net/

>>23410040
Can I enter?

enter the shrine

>>23668805
Why
Will Reimu be there?

>>23519741
That is in fact the artists' intention.
https://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=14513834

All the scenery glory

enter once

>>23679720
Wouldn't you like to know, Marisa

>>23410040

Gensokyo is beauty