/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>22446982
ERIKANTRICE MANIFESTO CHAPTER 6 OUT:https://pastebin.com/XVrRMWqS

VAN DYNE BONUS OUT:GIVEN THE GREAT DEMAND, I HAVE SHOWN IN MY MANIFESTO THAT ALL THE LAWS OF VAN DYNE ARE VALID IN ERIKANTRICE ONE FOR ONE FOR 20 TIMES.
I HOPE YOU LIKE IT

booru:erikce.booru.org

Jessica is the best

>>22447009
disgusting

>>22447015
No u

Still feel like Meow is a traitor, but it might be a red herring.

has anyone here been to Comiket or heard about what its like there?
i wanna hit up 07 there.... do they just sell merchandise or something?

>>22447151
Gotta agree with you. At least one of the traitors is an alter.

>>22446982
Which one of you was this?

The Fourth King.

>>22447719
now that's what I call reddit

>>22447560
Pretty sure most of us in these threads don't think the ending needs fixing. You'll find the haters in the general vn threads.

>>22447560
I always have a hard time wrapping my head around people that say stuff like this. Even if you think it's dumb to treat Umineko like god's gift to humanity, it's baffling to me how you could read hundreds of hours of a story like this and summarize the whole thing with a "meh". I've found on other boards that pressing them a little for their reasons usually reveals it's for dumb shit like a handful of contrivances in the endgame or them not agreeing with Ryukishi's themes retroactively removing all interest they enjoyed for days of reading all at the last second.

>>22447793
If you think the ending needs fixing it's unlikely you'd have stuck around this long after all.

talk to the hand, bitch

>>22447891
Based. This is why I read Umineko more as a narrative than a mystery. Rather than rage at theories and waddle around in confusion, I just absorbed the story and tried to put it together as I read. Way more rewarding. Plus, it's fun to go back and solve everything once you've got all the information available. Pure mindgasm.

>>22448134
/jp/ hated the fuck out of the ending when it first came out, people here wanted Ryukishi's head of a spike and claimed he was insulting them.

>>22447560

I don't really get people who are mad about the ending the Umineko. Even if you think it's bad, why would you let that ruin the experience for you? Umineko is really fucking long, of course there's going to be at least some things you don't like about it.

this girl kinda looks like ange

>>22448916
Endings can make or break a story, look at the death threats Gainax got for Evangelion's original "ending".

>>22448931
I also prefer Evangelion episode 25 and 26 to EoE (though both are very good and should coexist) so I can not relate to this sentiment either

>>22448931
Also not quite an ending but whenever I get reminded of The Boondocks I instantly think about its 4th season which makes me want to puke.

>>22448931
Basically, the Japanese are very weak to being pleb filtered.

>>22448931
I don't think EP8 is perfect but I don't get why the ending is so controversial. I guess it's understandable if you've been following it for years but the reactions to it seems way too extreme for something that despite its flaws didn't drop the ball at all, or at least I feel so.

Happy birthday to the living god known as Ryukishi07 who's now 46. I wish I could buy him a drink, but I guess that buying ciconia phase 1 will suffice for now. Also Half Life 3 is a thing

>>22448792
And all of a sudden when the manga chapters about Yasu were revealed it became a masterpiece. I wonder why

>>22449092
>Episode 8 comes out
>people complain about not getting clear answers
>Episode 8 manga comes out
>people complain about not leaving it vague

>>22449204
It's almost like there are different groups of people with different opinions about how "clear" the answers should be.

>>22449797
I get that. But it's pretty annoying that no matter what Ryukishi does he's gong to get called a hack by part of the fandom.

>>22449828
That's the price of being a Creator...

>>22448812
Answers arc was fantastic.
I fucking hate normie
>muh i am so stupid that i cant understand nothing so its shit.

>>22448639
Umineko is a story first and a mystery second.

Does /jp/ love cute tomboys?

Well yes I think Umineko had a great ending, how could you tell?

>>22448997
>>22448941
you fellas do know that gainax admitted that they only did that because they ran out of money so they had to resort to a 2-episode clip show and EoE was intended to be the real ending?

The trick ending is much more open than the magic ending. Who says that Ange won't meet a better future which could be better than the magic one?

>>22450576
There will still be people who claim that the original was superior for some bullshit "artistic" reason.

>>22450648
>>22450576
Except authorial intent barely mean anything anyway, in fact, the idea that liking unpopular thing mean liking it for artistic reason was pretty bullshit logic in itself, people're allowed to choose their preferred ending if they think it's more thematically impactful to them

>>22450576
Limitations free the mind and beget creativity.
"EoE" was not the intended ending, and it wouldn't have been as good as it due to TV budget.
They ended it better, and they made the "animated ending" better as a great movie.
Also what I saw is what I saw, and what I saw is what they made. They thought the last two episodes were a fitting end for the series, and it was for the psychological portion of the story. Evangelion is part psychology and part cool shit, so they decided later on to end the cool shit part in a movie. If you understand that, you couldn't ask for a better deal. Unless you were in for something else entirely, or only the "cool shit" part, it's the best of both worlds, you have a stream of unified consciousness ending and a world shattering one with flashy lights.

Also, it wasn't even that they ran out of money, they ran out of time due to scheduling hell.

>>22450576
>>22450648
I don't see how this affects me. I prefer watching episodes 25 and 26 over EoE (though again, both are fantastic). Which of the two Gainax prefers or the fact that people jerk themselves off over being artistic doesn't affect my enjoyment of things in the slightest.

Speaking of Evangelion, has anybody tried to map out all the Evangelion references in Ciconia? The more I look for them the more I find. For example, pic related is basically Gendo.

>>22451148
Not every asshole dad with glasses is Gendou. I think he's actually quite unlike Gendou because Gendou is moved by a deep insecurity while Toujirou is Chad and doesn't really give a fuck. The dynamic between Shinji/Gendou and Miyao/Toujirou is also completely different.

I guess he is probably at least inspired by Gendou though.

>>22451204

Yeah, I totally agree that Toujirou is a very different character than Gendo personalitywise. I was thinking more in terms of his role in the story being similar, but I could have worded it more clearly.

>>22451204
Ryukishi literally said Ciconia is "Evangelion genre" in the interview

>>22451357
Yes but he also elaborates that what he means is a story that's enjoyable for the casual audience while also having deeper layers to it for the more hardcore audience (of which Eva is a great example).
I'm not denying that Toujirou has attributes that are inspired by Gendou but that doesn't make him "basically Gendou".

>>22451357
To me Ciconia feels more like Muv-Luv, the first phase reminded me of Muv-Luv Unlimited.

>>22451364

It's not just that he's an "asshole dad with glasses". In terms of the role he plays in the story, there are many parallels: both manipulate their sons to act as tools in their own plans, both collaborate with shadowy organizations in order to advance their agendas, both are partially responsible for developing the weapons used by their sons, and both eventually seize control when their sons refuse to obey orders to kill their friends.

>>22450815
It does in this case since whatever deep nonsense people delude themselves into thinking is literally and objectively bullshit unintended by the creator. It's like modern art snobs.
>>22450854
>Limitations free the mind and beget creativity.
Oh shut up. That doesn't excuse a clip show whose meaning is pointless and unintended.
>"EoE" was not the intended ending
It is, it's the whole reason it was made and it literally is a continuation of the story.
>They thought the last two episodes were a fitting end for the series
No, they couldn't do what they wanted because of limitations so they resorted to a cheap clip show that pissed off everyone who could see right away that it didn't have any deeper meaning and Anno would later apologize with EoE, the actual ending of the series.

>>22451148
ah you mean evil tomitake?

>>22452185
Stop talking about things you don't know, in a thread where it's off topic, thanks.

Don't know if anyone who worked on the translation lurks here but blocking in this case refers to parry.
It should be obvious by the let's go Justin line, but SF3's parry mechanic is called blocking in the Japanese version. Even though it's literally called blocking, translating it as parry would be much less confusing since blocking and guarding usually refer to the same thing in fighting game terms.
Not that this matters though. The term is only used on these two screens and will probably never come up again.

>>22452185
Oh no...

hairs cant lie!!!

>>22452940
Even the Shkanontrice explanation expects Yasu to use a wig.

>>22452955
so why erika and ikuko have a fringe

>>22452959
Because people can have similar hairstyles without being the same person. Alternatively, Ikuko chose to describe Erika as looking similar to herself.

>>22452983
ok you win
but is still strange(claire and ikuko seem equal)

>Ikuko chose to describe Erika as looking similar to herself.
what? so even for shkanontrice ikuko is yasu?

>>22452996
In Shkanontrice Erika is a dead person that Ikuko writes into the story as alive. Her appearance and actions are likely total fiction.

>>22453009
so why erika is so a shit detective?
>didnt check the bodies.
>didnt check if someone is hiding in a closet room
>put the tape everyone except on the kinzo studio window.
ecc

>>22453051
Because Ikuko seems to be writing her to help Tohya remember by having a character that fucks around. She's there to take actions that force Tohya to give answers for why something would or wouldn't work based on his memory, starting from the very beginning where she boldly claims that Natsuhi is the killer.

>>22453091
remember the discover of the bodies:
>battler:muh you cant inspect the boodies is immoral.
>Erika:u mad i have the detective authority i can do what a fuck i want
>bernkastle pushed battler against the wall
>erika didnt inspect the bodies

is tohya really so stupid?

>>22452877
>Let's go Justin
Fuck I had to read your post aloud to actually remember the Daigo parry
I didn't realize while reading it was about that

>>22453126
Sorry, but I haven't read EP5 in a long time and can't recall the specifics of a scene like that.

>>22453156
is in the manga too;
the group were in the cousine room.

>>22447891
Probably because the story is largely a bait and switch into something most readers weren't expecting in the slightest. While some people don't mind the change or even like it more than it was before, there are also people who felt it was bad faith for stringing them along under the guise of something it wasn't.

>>22453268
It's not like it's a last second bait and switch though. You start seeing the other side of things around episode 4 and earlier if you keep an open mind. I suppose it's understandable if you came in on a recommendation of "a good mystery" or something though. Really a shame when that kind of thing happens

>>22453193
Like I said, I haven't read the episode in a long time, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say that he doesn't want Erika checking the bodies because he feels that she's a bitch. He's right.

>>22452940
You do realize that like half the female cast has those bangs, right?

>>22450222
>>22448812
Do I have to be the asshole here saying that obviously the people still in 07th Expansion threads will tend to like Umineko's answers arc, while the ones who didn't probably fucked off?

This level of reasoning is possible for fucking Anon.

>>22453488
>not staying to shitpost about how much you hated it.

>>22453488
>implying
I started hating Umineko after Dawn, I also dislike Matsuribayashi.

>>22447891
I was someone that was disappointed for a long time with the ending because I felt that Shkanontrice was unsolvable. But after a conversation with someone on here, I was able to understand the story better, admit I was wrong, and find my enjoyment for it again. I did feel for a long time that the story was pointless, so I can empathize with these people.

>>22453268
How do these people feel that they were misled?

>>22453517
Matsuribayashi is so dumb. It's hype but it's so dumb. Just like EP8.

>>22453716
The thing with Matsuribayashi is that it's such a lame ending. Besides it being dumb it doesn't feel "epic" enough for me. Also Rena and Keiichi barely do anything. I hope Miotsukushi is better. It sounds better at least.

>>22453716
I agree on Matsuribayashi but I fucking love EP8.

>>22453517
>he didn't like Requiem
Mysterylet filtered

>>22453828
It's amazing to me how odd numbered EPs are so much better in Umineko

>>22453728
Naturally, the shit taste pleb is also an EOP. Classic. Get some new material, you're a fucking bore to talk to. Matsuribayashi gets shit on every other thread.

https://talktotransformer.com/

So Kyrie wanted to cut the witch's arm, which was apparently also her own. So this is what happens when you give an AI the ability to create gameboards...

this is so funny

>>22454362
Why so mad anon?

>>22453268
You are told multiple times in the question arcs that the objective truth isn't everything and that there's more to it. Did you just totally switch off during EP2 and 4?

>>22454468
Battler and Erika engaging in fantasies of power and control? Lewd!

>>22454751
Whoops, I obviously meant 3, not 2.

In a way I don't even really blame people feeling like they've been bait-and-switched because to be honest, yes we have, that's just Ryukishi's style. I personally don't mind because I like the switch better than the bait, but I can understand being upset if you start liking Umineko because it's a codified classical mystery puzzle solving experience and then it changes its message to what it does. That's kind of how I feel about Higurashi, personally.

That doesn't excuse the retards just flat-out refusing to understand the ending or making up crazy conspiracy theories about it, though.

>>22454769
>changes its message
You'd have to speedread most of the question arcs to end up interpreting it like this.

>>22454815
I mean, I never felt like its message changed, but I can see why you would think that. You don't have to be a speedreader to misinterpret it like that, especially if that's how you *want* it to be, since that tends to make you blind for other interpretations.

>>22453396
>she's a bitch
What? Cmon and this for you have more logic than erika accomplice
>>22453472
Yeah but ikuko and claire mmmhhhh
>>22453488
Answare arc is fucking the best:
End of the golden witch is the best vn ever made:
Dawn is the weakest episode before you discover erika=kanon.
From this moment become one of the best.
Requiem is the best to present a solution.
Will is fucking to cool and with lion are the best couple. (Tomboy not gay)
Twilight magic ending made everyone cry and trick ending is fucking the best (sad that cut ange take back ushiromiya group by killing okonogi.)
So chiro is the best
Erika best rival
Willard most beautiful character desing ever.
Best ending
>muh its not a mistery anymore
Yes its a mystery but only me understand erika=kanon so for shkanontrice plebs muh everyone is the culprit in 4,5,6 games make you hate umineko.

>>22454831
C'mon what? I said I haven't read the chapter in a long time, but even Battler can tell that nothing pleasant is going to come from Erika being involved. Not to mention in EP5 she's confirmed an "accomplice" since she kills six people.

>>22454851
In the 5th game george killed them
The 5 game was against natsuhi
>erika made natsuhi didnt had an alibi during murders
>george commit the murders
>erika accuse natsuhi of commit them
She killed in the 6th game but was part of the game against battler
>erika insult everyone because they cant solves riddles
>george make battler create a fake murder case for BTFO erika
>erika really kill the fake victims for accuse battler of killing them

This solution is full game board
Didnt need any consideration outside it.

>>22454864
George was decapitated by Erika as part of the first twilight.

>>22454815
>>22454751
It also fully presents itself as a mystery novel promotionally and the first episode is wholly mystery setup. Then the question arcs invite the player to try and solve the individual mysteries of the red truth game along with battler.

>>22454875
Where is written?
George killed himself after finish with the murders.

>>22454887
Could you explain how George managed to decapitate himself in his own bed using clues the story provides?

>>22454889
>decapitate
Why just shot in the head and lost half face.this is enougth for made everyone see his body understand that he is dead.
(Beatrice said half-face=death in the 4th game.)
But ok i accept your challenge
George fell into the shaft and hit the head.
George kill humself and after death erika cut his head.
George eat a mini-bomb.
George put himself in the boiler.

>>22454924
The issue isn't the face, it's his neck. That wound can't be faked.

"The direct cause of death is unknown, but his neck was slashed open by a sharp knife.The wound is very deep, so anyone can easily see that he definitely died."
If I recall, it was described as a wound so deep that he was basically decapitated.

So even if he did kill himself, why? And why would Erika then conceal the cause of his death? Again, please use evidence from the story.

>>22454940
>The issue isn't the face, it's his neck. That wound can't be faked.

Red truth: after the dead the bodies were never moved
So the neck wound wasnt real but a trick.

>So even if he did kill himself, why?
If he do it there is a reason.
He hated eva for what she do to him nut not his father, hideyoshi support him many times
so after george killed him he repented and killed himself. all this according to yasu's statement.

>>22454956
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to consider EP5 unsolved with your explanation. I can't believe that there's a trick that could allow you to fake having your throat ripped open. The explanation for George is also unsatisfactory. There's no reason for George to have no problem killing his parents in every game and then regret it in this one for some undisclosed reason, especially when the strongest basis of your theory is that you have the same culprits every time.

>>22454963
>orge to have no problem killing his parents
George never directly kills his father in the first 4 games.
He killed eva in the 1st game but was kanon to kill hideyoshi.
Kanon killed hideyoshi in the mansion in the 3rd game and killed him with roulette destiny during 2nd and 4th game
In the 5th game goerge killed face to face his father and this was too much for him

>I can't believe that there's a trick that could allow you to fake having your throat ripped open.
A red truth is simple true so george maria jessica and rosa were alive with this wound on the neck
If the wound was real or not this wound didnt killed them.

>>22454975
>He killed eva in the 1st game but was kanon to kill hideyoshi.
Do you have any evidence that suggests this?

>A red truth is simple true so george maria jessica and rosa were alive with this wound on the neck
There is no red truth confirming that this wound was non-fatal, and there's nothing anywhere indicating that it was non-fatal except your assertion that it would go against your theory, which is just begging the question.

>>22454985
>Do you have any evidence that suggests this?
Hideyoshi was in the bathtube
If george shots at eva hydeyoshi would hear the shot sound and made him exit from the bathtube to check what was happened.
So the death of hideyoshi must be in the same moment of eva death.
So one person shoted eva and another person shoted hideyoshi.

>There is no red truth confirming that this wound was non-fatal.

Yes the neck wounds were on the bodies during the discover of the bodies.
But then the bodies disappier from cousine room, but the red truth said: after the death the bodies were never moved
So its impossible for the bodies to be death during the discover so the neck wounds were fake

>>22454994
...Or a lone killer shot Eva, walked into the bathroom, and shot HIdeyoshi in the >5 seconds it would've taken him to hear the sound, realize something might be wrong, and get out of the bathroom. That is assuming that he would even hear the sound. I don't even know why George is necessary in this murder since it could be done by one person.

>So its impossible for the bodies to be death during the discover so the neck wounds were fake
Red truth:
"The deaths of the four people in the cousin room have been proclaimed with the red truth!! Furthermore, those corpses were witnessed by a large number of people!! Furthermore, it's already been proclaimed in red that no examination of the corpses would lead to a mistaken result...!!"

>>22454994
>Or a lone killer shot Eva, walked into the bathroom, and shot HIdeyoshi in the >5 seconds it
Yes but
My goal was to find a way to made goerge didnt kill his father during the first 4 games
And i do it so now there is no problem for him to kill himself after killing his father.
(You can deny it?)

>"The deaths of the four people in the cousin room have been proclaimed with the red truth

After George's death, his corpse was never moved!After Jessica's death, her corpse was never moved!After Maria's death, her corpse was never moved!After Rosa's death, her corpse was never moved!After Genji's death, his corpse was never moved!After Krauss's death, his corpse was never moved!Therefore, the corpses couldn't have vanished after being discovered!! Your theory about Kinzo carrying the corpses away fails!
Red truth.

No one can made the bodies disappier so they werent death.

>>22455035
...Yes, and I just explained that Kanon could've killed Eva and Hideyoshi by himself. You don't need to have a complicated arrangement of two people committing a simultaneous murder.

>No one can made the bodies disappier so they werent death.
I assert that they were never moved. They were killed in that spot.

Nine years later, we haven't changed.

>>22455054
If was kanon to kill them
Erikantrice is still valid but
Eva was a martial arts champion,if kanon or genji had entered in the room she would have reacted instead she was lying on the bed with a serene face.

This makes us understand that she knew the culprit,she trusted him so much that she let him enter and felt so safe with him to lie on the bed, the only person that coincides with that description is george

>I assert that they were never moved. They were killed in that spot.
The corpse were moved
When the group entered again in the room there werent any bodies

>>22455090
Or Eva was asleep.

As for EP5, I'm going to drop it for now because I realize I don't remember enough to confidently debate.

>>22455094
Ok dont worry i like discuss with you
reread it is my favorite part of umineko.

Where's the new OP

AN EXTRACT FROM MY MANIFESTO:

The strongest point of the shkanontrice theory are the last 2 red truths of the sixth game:
-erika "I am the visitor, the 18th human on Rokkenjima!!:"
-Battler "Even if you do join us-" ""That makes 17 humans."
no other theory has been able to refute this point.
shannon = kanon seems the only solution because according to the red of lambda:"Furudo Erika only increases it by one person. Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games."
so if erika increases the number of people by 1 people must necessarily be 16 !!!!
incredible shkanontrice is irrefutable how can you, just a mortal, contest this without magic?

The answer is simple!!!!
What if the +1 person providing erika had already been counted?
(insert any human) only increases it by one person. Besides (insert any human), the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games."
erika = kanon this allows us to destroy the foundations of shkanontrice, now we can interpret the last 2 reds of the 6th game as:
-erika:"I am an Human!!!"
-battler"no you're just yasu's fantasy of being a detective, you are not human"
and Erika disappeared.

this solution made the death of erika so sad.
an illusion who beg battler to tell to her that she was something more than just a fantasy.
This is why erika surrend , she accepted magic because was the only way to be real.

Hey Italio-anon or Erikanon, how about this accomplice theory in EP5:
>George and Erikanontrice as usual
>Eva and Hideyoshi are hired by Erika ALONE without knowing George - see red truth "Erika and Eva conceived after Diner"
>technically, George can kill his father after the 2nd Twilight because he done his role
>Eva can use this pretext to attack Natsuhi (not knowing about being tricked by Erika and George)
>Nanjo should have been "bought", too

Battler is a special case. He willingly helped Natsuhi in Kinzo's study and maybe after her confession. So I guess he simply misidentified the neck damage of the fake corpses or went along with everyone else's opinion.
It would be too strange to use Battler as an accomplice against "Erika" and Natsuhi at the same time. Unless Battler is silent because he knows that the missing "corpses" are hostages.
He thought that in EP4, too.

>>22457909
>Erika and Eva conceived after Diner"
Well erika is the detective and the accomplice in that moment erika as detective make an agreement with eva.
So for eva the agreement was for capture the culprit instead for erika was to make impossible for anyone eccept natsuhi ne the culprit.
(Eva and hideyoshi accomplices is possible too but i wrote on my manifesto same culprits so i am forced to follow this rule in every game.)
>nanjo
I didnt wrote this in my manifesto because was a weak argument
But when erika read the natsuhi's diary nanjo and kumasawa give their support to erika by confirm every bullshit she said about natsuhi.

>George can kill his father after the 2nd Twilight because he done his role
Why? The red truth about george death was said after battler resurrectio so the exatly moment of george death is unknow. (Well is possible that he was alive,the red truth said 5 bodies without the names so the place of george can be taken by krauss)

>Battler
Maybe battler after seen the neck wound started to have some doubts and when natsuhi said about the 19th man he discover everything.

>>22448776
this cat is lewd!

Orgasm of the Golden Witch

>>22454468

>>22460678
Battler isnt gay!!!!
Fuck kanon is a cute tomboy.
She didnt has tits because she is an incest monster.
Incest childrens have many problems like no puberty.
But for battler all of this dont matter because he really loves kanon.

Any of you lot interested in reading gerokasu if/when it becomes available in english? Its written by ryukishi and he said he enjoyed writing it a lot but i’ve seen next to no interest here or even any awareness of its existence.

>>22460986
the plot?

>>22460986
Gerokasu seems to have some really interesting mechanics, but given that it's likely never going to be translated, I'm not confident I'll ever be able to read it.

Although the voice acting might help a bit there. Maybe if the price is cheap enough.

>>22461095
https://www.dualshockers.com/gensou-rougoku-no-kaleidoscope-november-release-story-characters-translation/

>>22461215
really interesting but the full girls cast made me doubt.
i dont want another moeshit.

>>22461272
If it's Ryukishi's moeshit, I'll take it.

>>22459981
Now we know for certain that is a fantasy based story

>>22453595
>How do these people feel that they were misled?
I think it may be close to your experience, but many, many readers - including me - saw Umineko as a mystery with additional themes, therefore were fuming on the lack of concrete 'answers' - even though it was agreed upon by most, not giving an 'official answer' was a heavy disappointment after we spent so much time and effort to solve the mystery. I mean, imagine Christie or other classics ending the story with 'well I know who the culprit was, let's leave it at that', sure that is hack writing. Add to that how some felt personally attacked by the goats of Ep8 and you have a bombastic outrage ready to spill.
It took me a few years to realize Ryu was criticizing that stance since Ep5, with his clear portrayal of Erika's accusation of Natsuhi as evil, and later repeated more clearly with the Trick ending; he was pointing to us that the mystery is important, but it's not the clou of the story, but merely a tool; that you don't always have to know the full truth, in fact sometimes it would be better if you didn't, and accepted the Golden Truth of magic.
I still disagree with leaving the catbox completely sealed and am glad we got the Rokkenjima-Prime version of events (should've been a part of the Trick ending IMO), but I also understand why it was not included in the original - it would overshadow the message and the Magic ending.

>>22461838
You still get at least 6 great mystery stories to solve in Umineko. The only thing that can't be solved is what actually happened. And in order to get that story, you'd have to find it from someone that survived. Whatever testimony they provided certainly wouldn't read like a mystery novel.

>>22461885
Yeah, but with the whole meta shtick it's not unfeasible to have had an infodump from someone like Bern (well, she did give us that in Ep7, but that it was all truth- wasn't necessarily so; plus it was hard to think of Kyrie and especially Rudolf as how they were presented - remember, fresh after release people are hotheads, and while Kyrie was always a shady fuck Rudolf never seemed like such a cunt).
Also remember that Will's solutions are nowhere near clean-cut and require thinking what he actually meant by these (or reading the manga lmao) - again, a conscious choice by Ryu who wanted only those who 'get it' to get to the solution, but people were disappointed that such misty explanations were all we got. What would Van Dine say if he read a mystery where the solution is "*wink wink, nudge nudge*"? The 'seacats were never a full-fledged mystery' camp was extremely small at that time, and usually called insults/Ryukishi Defence Squad for 'trying to defend this garbage writing'.

>>22461945
The meta is Battler's mind, so that also doesn't make sense. If we want to see how Battler perceives Rokkenjima when freed from the constraints of Yasu's/Ikuko's mystery novels, we get EP7/8.

>>22462209
However, I agree the lack of official, direct answers for EP1-6 can be annoying. However, it also makes the story a lot more fun as the years go by because it can lead to speculation. We see speculation in these threads today.

>>22462209
naturally bernkastle real truth is fake.

just shkanontrice must belive in it,because if the culprit are the same in every games it's really easy understand what really happened but with different culprits there isnt a real solution.

bern-castle

>>22461671
Damn that's a Kinzo tier burn, Bern

>>22460986
Never heard of this and have no idea what it is but if ryukishi made it, I'm sold.

>>22448776
How does she give the dual effect of looking at you as though you have committed a forbidden sin by seeing her pantsu while also seemingly deliberately showing them off?

>>22465542
It's just her way of indirectly showing hate-sex

>>22465542
I think a big part of it is the color. Just seeing her panties is one thing, but the fact that they're cute pink ones feels like it'd be some sort of taboo knowledge. And with the way she's looking right at you, she'd notice right away if your eyes drift down to her skirt.

>>22465542
She don't want you to caught her that she's wearing her gf panties rn

Receiving Valentine's chocolate directly from Bern's breasts!
>>22465809
Returning the favor on White Day by covering them with your white chocolate!

>>22465872
It could also be that we're seeing this from Lambda's point of view and this is just Bern's way of playing with her.

>>22453126
to be fair the level of bullshit the narrator needs to be managing to make literally everyone (including Battler, I really doubt Battler being unrealiable in EP5 wasn't a twist for anyone) claim the first twilight had their necks open and it be a lie is quite big, I don't blame Tohya
by the way, if Ikuko (Yasu or not, I don't think it's so important for this question, she could have read confessions anyways) was helping Tohya remember with the stories they wrote (Banquet, Alliance, End), doesn't that mean Tohya DIDN'T know the truth? So, he was adding stuff to the story like Eva being the culprit or the "games" from EP4 and 7 but Ikuko was the one going on about Yasu stuff? Doesn't that mean Tohya didn't read Confessions after all?

>>22461945
>it was hard to think of Kyrie and especially Rudolf as how they were presented
I mean, yeah, but Prime is supposed to be something like that anyways, probably just Kyrie and Rudolf being less edgy and Eva being way more of a cunt
This is just speculation without any base, but something like
>Eva killing Rosa herself after she suggests turning Eva to the police
>Kyrie and Rudolf killing Eva and Hideyoshi half in self defense half because Krauss and Rosa were already dead anyways, and Beatrice for obvious reasons
They had to blow up the island afterwards and lying to everyone was way too risky, yeah, and they killing some servant and tricking Jessica and George (mostly with the purpose of being able to get Battler out with some excuse) works well, but I doubt they were laughing and being so mean and all that

>>22467051
>Tohya DIDN'T know the truth?
well i belive that was ikuko to wrote the 5th game
but if tohya wrote it seem strange, you said that he wrote banquet alliance too in these games are total different from the 5th one:

first the detective why change battler with erika?
battler is him self-insert but erika? is ikuko self-insert? this didnt explaine why erika didnt inspect the bodies ecc....

second the crime have a sense, yasu wanted to make battler remember her, but what is the sense of 5th game? according with the hkanontrice official solution is al a big consiracy agaisnt erika so even the natsuhi part, her teras, are faked. What his the goal of battler by writing this?

third : ok ikuko wrote yasu part, but at least battler for wrote the games must knew about kanon\shannon culprit so i must knew the truth

this is why i cant belive in it.
ikuko\yasu wrote all the games give sense to all of that and erika = kanon is the only solution that made the fifth game a mystery.


>to be fair the level of bullshit the narrator needs to be managing to make literally everyone (including Battler, I really doubt Battler being unrealiable in EP5 wasn't a twist for anyone) claim the first twilight had their necks open and it be a lie is quite big, I don't blame Tohya

if i remember well, is the same type of fake death used in 10 little indians

How and why does this have so many views?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFyzTtKNzYI

>>22467178
italian language is the best.

>>22467178
>Anime Japanese italian Pop
good title
Also it's a pretty good song, so people will listen (and replay), and the way YT works is if you watch something that matches the 'genre' of a vid, it may get pushed - the more views/comments/likes it gets, the better chances it gets, creating a snowball effect. I remember getting that 100M Megalovania almost every time, regardless of what my current session was.
And what 'genre' it is? Well again, see the title - anime songs, Japanese songs, Italian songs, pop, likely other profiled from watch histories - therefore, a lot of possibilities to get pushed into recommended.

>>22467167
I mean, Ikuko being the only one writing EP 3-5 would be way simpler, I know, but the vn did go out of its way to make Featherine be the witch persona of BOTH Ikuko and Tohya, that's why I have my doubts, nothing else.
>if i remember well, is the same type of fake death used in 10 little indians
Yeah, but there in that case there were not accomplices and the cause of death wasn't as severe.

>>22467051
Who knows. Ikuko acts like a show-off child who found 10€ in front of other kids. People tend to forget she was VERY interested in the Rokkenjima case. Tbh she is a type of person who want to put their ideas into others work.
Confession isn't consent to the story. I would treat it as a normal Forgery, maybe written by Ikuko herself.

>>22467178
>[Anime Japanese italian Pop]
lol, this, no doubt, it attracts all kind of weebs
not like some Umineko songs can't reach the couple millions though, also remember it's been almost a decade since EP8

>>22467309
I admit my mental image of Ikuko could be twisted. I though she was just a witch tier looney when first reading the vn, but the manga made her so nice (in the flashback of her life with Tohya) I now can't help but think of her as a dindu nuffin who has the loveliest relation with Tohya.

>>22467306
> were not accomplices
yes the culprit made an agreement with the doctor.
the doctor thought of helping him pretend to be dead to deceive the culprit without knowing he was the cuprit.
>severe
is
an opinion of observer

>ut the vn did go out of its way to make Featherine be the witch persona of BOTH Ikuko and Tohya, that's why I have my doubts, nothing else.
probably ikuko wrote the stories and signed them with tohya in the hope to attract the ange.

>>22448776
We need more Bernkastel upskirts!

>>22467512

>>22467512

humanity is doomed because of lazy and jumbled code

ok guys i finish to reread dawn of the golden witch.
I have to admit it with shkanontrice the parts between kanon and shannon make a lot of sense, especially the part of the duel but he also has his problems.
the 6th game was the game in which battler had to prove he understood everything, so many scenes are actually confessions.
the scenes of george with shannon and his mother(even erika said:these love scenes are boring but love is a good motive) these scenes were used to demonstrate the guilt of george and that he was ready to do anything to realize his love.
the scene with kyrie served to make it clear that she was the real mother of battler, the one with rose that maria's father was not necessary in this story.

the main scene that I have to explain is the duel.
the duel like the other scenes represents a confession, it represented 3 possible possibilities achievable with a certain object the golden brooch( the 2 billion yen card), in this capitalist world money can allow everything even has 2 different social class people to marry (george and kanon), to 2 people of the different sex of being together (jessica and kanon) and a body of a woman destroyed to be able to create a family (yasu battler).
the first couple that had this possibility was yasu with battler, but battler's stubbornness and george's jealousy destroyed this opportunity and they were the first to lose.
yasu after battler's betrayal and the discovery that his woman's body was broken created a male personality and falls in love with jessica,because even if she didn't admit it she still loved battler and his influence was strong so she fell in love with the ideal woman of jessica battler, but when she found out that Battler was returning to the island, Kanon understand that his love for Jessica was just a lie, and this couple lost.
Kanon then gave George the card,whatever had happened she would have died and at least she wanted to give a person who had suffered for love like her the chance to realize his love.
if shkanontrice was true why did george win? if george was the most important person for yasu then why commit to the murders for battler?

this is my interpretation of the duel I hope you enjoy

>>22469811
>>22467512
>>22448776

>>22470496
Yet, Battler and Beatrice were the real winner after Erika vs Beato.

>>22470959
the witch of the truth accept the truth about herself(no miracle or no or no willpower could change the real truth) and beatrice 2 expose the truth about the game.
erika and beatrice 2 disappier and the real beatrice resurrect.

>>22470978
I agree that Erika is related to Beatrice's ressurection. Chronically in the meta world, Erika and Beatrice 2 don't dissapear together. Maybe there is a connection between them and the "North Wind and the Sun" fable because it was mentioned again in Dawn?

>>22471779
>don't dissapear together.
maybe yes maybe not after battler and beatrice fired at erka the game ends.
> Maybe there is a connection between them and the "North Wind and the Sun" fable because it was mentioned again in Dawn?
idk what you mean
what is this connection? sound interesting

>about the game
we have to ask ourrself a question: why at the beginning of the game battler was unable to resurrect beatrice?
Beatrice is the representation of the rules of the game but with the presence of an anomaly ,Erika, the rules were different, this is why Beatrice 2 born.
(since lambda knew about erika = kanon the representation of the rules of the lambda game(beatrice without life)was different from that of battler(beatrice 2))
after erika finally dies the anomaly of the rules disappears and beatrice 2 ""dies""(in the sense of personality) and the true beatrice resurrect.

I've been in a coma for an unspecified amount of time. Is the new WTC out yet? Do we at least know the MC's gender?

>>22471871
her body is female
but she had 2 personality: one male and one female.

>>22471871
>Is the new WTC out yet?
yes
>Do we at least know the MC's gender?
It's a cute boi with a split personality of a girl()

>>22471883
>>22471886
Thanks. Now I must reclaim the time I lost...

i went to monster party in akiba a few days ago and it was a great experience, thanks r07!

>>22472215
>party
fuck off normie
> thanks r07!
he was at the party?

>>22471826
>North Wind and the Sun
It was Beatrice's strategy in EP3 to convince Battler to believe witches. Beato and Virgillia were talking about the fable.
I was wondering if there was an analogy to Dawn (or possibly End) to make Battler side with Beatrice instead of Erika and the other witches. After all the shenanigans in 3, Battler tries to protect Beatrice and her game in EP5 because she cannot defend herself. Funny that Battler didn't bother to ask Erika why she act that way in EP5. I think (Piece) Battler only shows his anger to those people and question them:
Maria
Rosa
Kinzo (when he believed he exists)
Human Beatrice
Erika after she destroyed Maria's illusion

Just wondering why Shannon was so concerned about how Battler reacted to Erika.
>P, please stop, Battler-sama...! Please, for my sake, don't push any further here...! Please...!
What does she mean by this?


>rules
Rules x,y and z?
No, not about them, they are from Confession.

>>22472569
>Rules x,y and z?
bernkastle said in the secret tea party of legend of the golden witch that beatrice is the representation of the game rules
in the 6th game ikuko confirm that.

>North Wind and the Sun
>I was wondering if there was an analogy to Dawn
I remember the scene with a desperate battler who begged beatrice pawn to tell him that it was all her strategy like in the third game then other parts of the story would not make sense as the final duel between beatrice and erika.

>Erika after she destroyed Maria's illusion
strange that erika knew beatrice trick and she had a candy in her pocket.
what a lucky coincidence.
Erika's goal was to enrage Battler and prompt him to organize the fake murders that she would make them true and then accuse him of committing them.

>>P, please stop, Battler-sama...! Please, for my sake, don't push any further here...! Please...!

i didnt remeber that pls send screenshot i want see it!!!

>>22446982
Battler is an average kid who no one understands
Bernkastel, Lambda and Beatrice always giving him demands

>>22472716
Everything about Erika is a lucky coincidence. She's a parody of Mary Sues, and was written into the story by Ikuko to disrupt things, so she gave her the tools to do that.
I don't think Ikuko wanted to write a story where she accused Battler. Her goal is to mess with Battler and get him to confirm or deny theories so she can help him remember. Accusing Battler may be a strategy she used, but it wasn't the end goal.

>>22472891
>Everything about Erika is a lucky coincidence.
not coincidences in umineko

>I don't think Ikuko wanted to write a story where she accused Battler. Her goal is to mess with Battler and get him to confirm or deny theories so she can help him remember. Accusing Battler may be a strategy she used, but it wasn't the end goal.

in my theory the culprit are the same in every games george and kanon.
in the 5th game the goal of erika was accuse natsuhi and in this game the goal was accuse battler
it was george who told maria to read the enigmas so erika once solved them, she could insult the intelligence of other people and make them join battler's plan.
always george ,when erika was exaggerating , calmed her by changing the subject of discussion with chopsticks.
how george knew erika liked chopsticks if it was the first time she saw him.

erika never saw kanon in the 6th game.
erika killed everyone except battler.
erika made rudolf,krauss and hideyoshi understand that the victims had been killed by someone they knew.

all clues about a plan against battler.

>ikuko
remeber the last sentence of ikuko
"I've never read anything written by someone else"
this made us understand that the chapter 1-5 was written by her and the 6th game by someone else this is why ange read it and not ikuko.

You have to be really bored to engage with this level of ESL autism.

>>22473193
>this level of ESL autism
Rude anon
I will like discuss to you
Explaine to me why erika=kanon is wrong.

What if Kanontrice without Shannontrice?

>>22473434
Who killed shannon gohda and george in the natsuhi room in the 2nd game?
So george or shannon or gohda is the 2nd culprit.
If you choice shannon you obtain shkanontrice
If you choice george you obtain erikantrice
If you choice gohda you are stupid.

>>22473451

>>22473515
>1st twilight:minibomb
KNOX 4TH:It is forbidden for unknown drugs or hard to understand scientific devices to be used.

>accidentally killed jessica
VAN DYNE 18:>18)<A crime in a detective story must never turn out to be an accident or a suicide. To end an odyssey of sleuthing with such an anti-climax is to play an unpardonable trick on the reader. If a book-buyer should demand his two dollars back on the ground that the crime was a fake, any court with a sense of justice would decide in his favor and add a stinging reprimand to the author who thus hoodwinked a trusting and kind-hearted reader.>

>nanjo and kumasawa:
VAN DYNE 18

>gohda george shannon:
VAN DYNE 18

>gohda is a servant:
VAN DYNE 11:<Servants - such as butlers, footmen, valets, game-keepers, cooks, and the like - must have chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. It is unsatisfactory, and makes the reader feel that his time has been wasted. The culprit must be decidedly worth-while-a-person that wouldn't ordinarily be under suspicion; the author would have had no business to embalm it in book-form.>

>gohda is a serial rapist
VAN DYNE 17:<A professional criminal must never be shouldered with the guilt of a crime in a detective story. Crimes by house-breakers and bandits are the province of the police department--not of authors and brilliant amateur detectives. Such crimes belong to the routine work of the Homicide Bureaus. A really fascinating crime is one committed by a pillar of a church, or a spinster noted for her charities.>

DEATHDEATHDEATHDEATH DEATHDEATHDEATH <Die the Death>! <Sentence to Death>! <The Great Equalizer is Death>!!

>>22472966
>not coincidences in umineko
We're talking about metafiction. It's a reasonable explanation to say that Ikuko wrote a convenient coincidence into her story.

>"I've never read anything written by someone else"
You're taking this way too literally. How is she a mystery fan if she's never read a mystery novel?

>>22473611
>You're taking this way too literally. How is she a mystery fan if she's never read a mystery novel?
Ikuko was a persobality of yasu
They share knowledge
I knew that is too literrally but at least is a riddle about she didnt wrote dawn.

>coincidences
This violate van dyne and knox

>>22473627
This is just too absurd to believe. If Ikuko can seriously say that she's a mystery novel fan but has never read a mystery novel because her alternate personalities have, and have shared the knowledge with her despite her claiming she's never read one, I'd just say she's insane and assume that nothing she says has any value.

>This violate van dyne and knox
I agree. However, real life doesn't follow Van Dyne and Knox. It's all arbitrary whether or not something is a coincidence. The fact that Battler showed up to Rokkenjima on 1986, the day of the massacre, and that Ange was also sick that day, are also coincidences. Does that mean that every story broke the rules? If not, why?

>>22473664
>This is just too absurd to believe. If Ikuko can seriously say that she's a mystery novel fan but has never read a mystery novel because her alternate personalities have, and have shared the knowledge with her despite her claiming she's never read one, I'd just say she's insane and assume that nothing she says has any value.

yeap you have ritgh
but why ikuka said that
>i never read something wrote by someone else
>ange read dawn of the golden witch
so ikuko didnt wrote dawn.
about others games this argument is too weak.

>The fact that Battler showed up to Rokkenjima on 1986
the murder took place because battler went to the island
> Ange was also sick that day
ange was part of the mariage sorciere yasu ordered her to stay at home

>t's all arbitrary whether or not something is a coincidence
I studied mathematics, causality does not exist
what is the definition of randomness?
all things are based on the relationship of cause and effect
every event is determined by something.
therefore the future is a function that takes in input certain past events.
when no one can predict the output then the event is declared random.
kanon had allied money and a knowledge of mystery novels could have created any future except the one in which he and battler are happy together

>>22473716
Okay, then we can say that everything Ikuko wrote Erika was doing is also not a coincidence, since it has an explanation, even if not given.

>ange was part of the mariage sorciere yasu ordered her to stay at home
Evidence?

And by the way, your explanation for Umineko violates Van Dine:

11. There must be but one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed. The culprit may, of course, have a minor helper or co-plotter; but the entire onus must rest on one pair of shoulders: the entire indignation of the reader must be permitted to concentrate on a single black nature.

If anyone except Yasu kills, your explanation breaks this rule.

>>22473733
It also violates Van Dine rule 3:
There must be but one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed. The culprit may, of course, have a minor helper or co-plotter; but the entire onus must rest on one pair of shoulders: the entire indignation of the reader must be permitted to concentrate on a single black nature.

>>22473733
It also violates Van Dine rule 3:

There must be no love interest in the story. To introduce amour is to clutter up a purely intellectual experience with irrelevant sentiment. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar.

>>22473733
>nd by the way, your explanation for Umineko violates Van Dine:

good point but this rules mean only one mastermind
ex:x and y are 2 different person
x and y have never met
x and y decide to commit a murder the same day
so there are 2 different murders plans.
this prohibits van dyne 11.
but if who kill his under the command of a boss it's ok.
yes george is A culprit but not THE culprit
george follows kanon's orders perfectly and always dies after him.

>Evidence?
in 1986 it was the only time she did not go to rokkenjima
so in previous years she may have met yasu.
and if I remember correctly there is a scene in which ange gets angry with maria because she also would like to be part of the mariage sorciere

>>22473743
like erika said in Dawn of the golden witch:
"love stories are boring but I can understand that they serve to give to the culprit a motive for killing"
if erika accept it this didnt violate the rule

>>22473766
Evidence that Ange may have been in mariage sorciere isn't evidence that she was definitely told not to go.

There being two different murder plans doesn't exempt you from Van Dyne. The statement is very clear: only one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed. Either there's only one murderer, or your explanation breaks that rule.

>>22473787
>Evidence that Ange may have been in mariage sorciere isn't evidence that she was definitely told not to go.
I have shown that there is a possibility
can you deny it? there is no red truth in reality

>van dyne 11
> The culprit may, of course,
>have a minor helper or co-plotter;
george is a co-plotter(can kill).
genji kumasawa and nanjo minor helper(cant kill).
read well the last sentece
>the entire indignation of the reader must be permitted to concentrate on a single black nature.
only one single case!!!! this rule mean no more than one case for story.

>>22473812
>can you deny it? there is no red truth in reality
By this logic, Shkanontrice is equally valid to your theory. This is also incredibly intellectually dishonest: you haven't yet proven that it happened, but you're asking me for proof it DIDN'T happen. Logic doesn't work that way.

"To plot" doesn't mean "to kill." If George is killing anyone, then he's violating this rule. I'm also not buying your explanation for the love rule: Erika simply saying it's okay doesn't mean the rule wasn't broken. As far as I'm concerned, you can't say that your theory is in line with Van Dyne. There are confirmed love interests and your explanation uses two killers.

>>22473852
>By this logic, Shkanontrice is equally valid to your theory
we speak about reality not about the games.
how i can provide proof without red truths and a detective?
i just show that its possible for yasu made ange remain at home the day of killing.
understand.

>"To plot" doesn't mean "to kill."
for van dyne co-plotter are dfferent from minor helpers.
what is this difference the ability of kill someone.

>The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice,
for who?
who bring the criminal to bar of justice?
simple the detective, is the detective who must be no love interest in the story.

in no games battler and erika fallen in love.
and again without the love story with george you cant understand that he is the culprit.

>>22473883
If you can't provide proof, then you can't say it's confirmed. Therefore, it's a coincidence, by your definition. I understand you, and your answer isn't sufficient.

>for van dyne co-plotter are dfferent from minor helpers.
I agree that co-plotters and minor helpers are different, but it has nothing to do with what I just said. You are saying that George is a culprit, not a co-plotter or minor helper. If George is a culprit, your theory violates this rule. Culprits are clearly distinguished from co-plotters and minor helpers because culprits kill. The culprit of a murder, which is required by Van Dyne, is the person who commits said crime. George is a murderer in your theory. George is a culprit in your theory. Your theory is in violation of this rule.

By the way, I found more ways in which your theory and the game in general break Van Dyne, so I'm just going to write a list. I'm using this website:
http://www.thrillingdetective.com/trivia/triv288.html

Rule #2
Natsuhi claims that Kinzo told her to bear the golden eagle in her heart. This is a trick played on the reader that didn't involve the culprit or the criminal.

Rule #3
There are multiple love interests in the story: Battler and Beatrice, Battler and Erika, George and Shannon, and Jessica and Kanon.

Rule #12
George murders in your definition.

Rule #20
Erika solves the epitaph in EP5.

>>22473907
>Erika solves the epitaph in EP5.
erika is yasu she knew the solution from the start didnt solve nothing.

>There are multiple love interests in the story: Battler and Beatrice, Battler and Erika, George and Shannon, and Jessica and Kanon.
all in meta scene battler the detective never saw them in the games so this scene could be meta

>Natsuhi claims that Kinzo told her to bear the golden eagle in her heart. This is a trick played on the reader that didn't involve the culprit or the criminal.
this isnt a trick kinzo death was confirmed with red truth.

>George murders in your definition.
i said that george is the culprit because he the culprit in reality, in the game yes kill but under kanon orders so for van dyne is a co-plotter.

>>22473907
Oh, and by the way, I changed my mind about Ange being told not to come. It's actually a very interesting idea that explains how Yasu knew that Ange would be missing in her message bottles.

>>22473925
thanks
better than muh kyrie the culprit

>>22473923
>erika is yasu she knew the solution from the start didnt solve nothing.
This is fine.

>all in meta scene battler the detective never saw them in the games so this scene could be meta
Your theory relies on George and Shannon being lovers. Battler also meets Beatrice in EP4 and she asks him if she remembers her or what he did, referencing the love she has for him.

>this isnt a trick kinzo death was confirmed with red truth.
A trick eventually being revealed doesn't mean it wasn't a trick. Are mystery novels not really mysteries because you eventually solve them?

>i said that george is the culprit because he the culprit in reality, in the game yes kill but under kanon orders so for van dyne is a co-plotter.
A co-plotter is one who helps form a plot. George kills in your theory. That's more than plotting.

Still 3/4 rules are violated.

>>22473907
Cigarette butts are used as a clue in EP 3 if I remember right.

>>22473942
ok fuck i like discuss with you seem like be in umineko then:

>A trick eventually being revealed doesn't mean it wasn't a trick. Are mystery novels not really mysteries because you eventually solve them?
kanon is the head of the family, so the trick of kinzo was made by him.
(natsuhi said the sentence to eva not to battler)

>Battler also meets Beatrice in EP4 and she asks him if she remembers
battler didnt love beatrice in ep4 so this isnt a love story need at 2 person.

>A co-plotter is one who helps form a plot
even a minor helper help with the plot.
we need to state the difference between co-plotter and minor helper.
if isnt the ability of killing what is?
or Kanon always killed george so if you are killed you are not a culprit anymore

>>22473979
cigarette were put by george to bait kyrie.

>>22473995
I like discussing with you too.

>kanon is the head of the family, so the trick of kinzo was made by him.
Read the rule.
>No wilful tricks or deceptions may be played on the reader other than those played legitimately by the criminal on the detective himself.
Even if Kanon plays the trick, it wasn't played on the detective. Battler never at any point was made aware of this conversation. It is a trick played on the reader where the trick wasn't also played on the detective.

>battler didnt love beatrice in ep4 so this isnt a love story need at 2 person.
I accept that. However, George and Shannon are still in love in your theory.

>we need to state the difference between co-plotter and minor helper.
I'm defining them as this. I think these definitions are reasonable.
A culprit is the one who kills. There must only be one at all times.
A co-plotter is one who helps the culprit come up with ideas for killing or is aware of their plan and chooses not to stop it. (Maria is a co-plotter in your theory.)
A minor helper is one who helps the the culprit but doesn't hurt anyone. (Nanjo is an example of a minor helper in your theory.)

>>22474104
>George and Shannon are still in love in your theory.
george and kanon are lover but battler never saw a love story between them.
the scene with george give the ring to shannon all fake meta.

>Even if Kanon plays the trick, it wasn't played on the detective. Battler never at any point was made aware of this conversation. It is a trick played on the reader where the trick wasn't also played on the detective.

remember that we must doubt about all the
scenes without the detective.
in the first 3 game if kinzo was alive or death this didnt change the mystery.
in the 4th if kinzo was alive or not change everything but this is a trick of the culprit kanon.

>the culprit
maria is just deceived by kanon she doesn't know about the murders unlike nanjo.

well i reread the rule in italian and this rule speaks of guilt.
says that the guilt of the murders must fall only on one person.
so its ok the guilt of everything is of yasu.
(is late in italy see you tomorrow)

>>22474176
>the scene with george give the ring to shannon all fake meta.
It doesn't matter if that scene is meta or not. The fact is that in you're theory, you're saying it's still true. Whether George's love scene with Shannon actually happened or not, your theory states they're in love. That love interest violates this rule.

>remember that we must doubt about all the scenes without the detective.
That's exactly my point. Any scene shown to the reader that didn't actually happen and wasn't witnessed by a detective is a violation of this rule. It is a trick, played on the reader, that wasn't played on the detective.

>says that the guilt of the murders must fall only on one person.
George still chooses to kill. Your theory doesn't have anything like coercion. He is guilty of murder.

Okay, have a good night.

>>22473219
Explain to me why you can't speak English.

>>22474730
Cute meido

>>22473542
>KNOX 4TH:It is forbidden for unknown drugs or hard to understand scientific devices to be used.
Actually you can learn how to make them in Belgium.

>>22474937
Shannon looks like a sexy woman so it ISN"T gay if anything lewd happens.

>>22474958
It's not gay since "shannon" the character is female.

>>22474984
Fat glasses man has posted.

>>22474998

>>22475000

>>22475019
Big soft pillow cushions.

>>22475027
Hug the furniture!

>>22475041
New upholstery

>>22475041
Resting your head on her pillows after a weary day.

>>22475048
>>22475069
Stealing the furniture from the fat glasses man!

>>22475089
He wasn't even using it to begin with. A guy has no right to complain about someone else sitting in a chair he never uses.

That servant working out there, Shannon, I'd like to break my dick off in that ass of hers, eh

dangerous play

>>22474194
>That's exactly my point. Any scene shown to the reader that didn't actually happen and wasn't witnessed by a detective is a violation of this rule. It is a trick, played on the reader, that wasn't played on the detective.

Nope umineko is not a full mystery
The real mystery part are the scenes saw by battler during the games.
Other scenes arent part of the mystery
This include george love story with shannon

>George still chooses to kill. Your theory doesn't have anything like coercion. He is guilty of murder
Still culprit=mastermind culprit under thw order of someone else is co-plotter.
I must read someone of van dyne books
If someone else kill other than the culprit
I have rigth.

>>22474716
>grammar nazi
My abily in english didnt deny my theory
So pls stop be a redditor and start to argument.

>>22472716
>i didnt remeber that pls send screenshot i want see it!!!

>>22475714
Thanks
Is this an hentai?
From what ep is this?
If it's game 6th maybe for stop the figth between them.

>>22475740
No this is not hentai.
This is a genuine scene from EP6 Dawn. It's played right after the Magic vs Anti-Magic battle between MARIA and Erika. Chapter: The Sourc of Magic

>>22475740
Stop using "for" wrong, you piece of shit.

>>22477416
for stop for insult for instead for argument!!!!!

Maria is so cute! And yet! And yet!

>>22474194
my friend i do it!!!!!
i show that george can be the culprit with kanon
these are the van dine rule said by Willard during the game:

Rule #1
It is forbidden to have a crime without all clues presented.
Rule #7.
It is forbidden to have a crime without a corpse.
Rule #11.
It is forbidden for a servant to be the culprit!
Rule #12
There must be but one true culprit.

the 12th red truth is slightly different says only a true culprit so george is a culprit but not the true culprit( the mastermind).

so like knox van dine rule are slightly different from the originals.

Why is Koshka so fucking cute

Anyone know if there's a way to extract the data.rom archive from the Switch version of Hou yet?

what killed these threads? the italian autist?

>>22479493
Having two threads up at once is usually not a good idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FytHqw7E5LA

>>22475643
Okay, then how does your theory work with George and Shannon being lovers?

Rule #1
>The reader must have equal opportunity with the detective for solving the mystery. All clues must be plainly stated and described.

You're saying that George's motive is Shannon, yet every scene demonstrating his motive is true is a meta scene, which you've said aren't necessary for your theory to work.

Boy, Ciconiaposting sure died out fucking fast. Did the shills leave or give up?

>>22479938
all my ciconia images are on my other pc unfortunately

they’re straight flexing at us for being able to see the back of the sprites.

>>22479938
Ciconia's only one arc in. It was fun to discuss when it came out, but until there's more content there's not a lot more to go into.

>>22479938
Nothing relevant to discuss right now (besides the connection between the themes of Haworthia and Ciconia, or even direct connection between the stories).
No teaparty equivalent like Umineko EP1 to keep us discussing theories.
Not enough memes.

>>22480147
Dlanor might be disappointed with that happy meal...

>>22479938
This entire thread is run by like 3 trolls and 10 retards who fall for the bait every time. No point in starting a conversation about anything when you're outnumbered by people who want to keep having the same "conversation" every day for months on end.

Also doesn't help that Ciconia is only one chapter in. There's a lot of interesting theories but we have so little information that any theory fits. Only later on when things become a bit more constrained will it get more interesting to try and find fitting theories.

>>22474730
>>22474937
>>22474958
>>22474998
>>22475000
>>22475019
>>22475027
>>22475041
>>22475048
>>22475069
>>22475275
That is a very cute boy.

>>22475275
For scientific purposes, may I have the uncropped version of this?

>>22480436
Certainly.
https://imgur.com/Kwa2z2Z
Enjoy your research anon.

>>22480488
Thanks. I will name you as co-author in my paper on Shannon's knockers.
It will take a while to finish because of the sheer breadth of the subject, though.

Is Gunhild secretly 20+ years old?

Her sisters are grown ass adults with actual jobs, and they are literally only sisters because they were born in the same batch in the same factory in the same day.

Gunhild herself is secretly working for the government. She keeps dropping hints about being older than her two partners. And she seems way too mature for her supposed age. She also talks fondly about her teenage years and going to concerts and shit, even though she's supposed to be a 16 or 17 year old high schooler with several years of military training on her record.

There's no fucking way she's actually that young. She's lying her ass off and has probably been planted there as an anti-mole who is looking for the real moles.

>>22480546
I wish she would lie her ass on my face.

>>22480550
But anon, she's literally human.

>>22480546
How old is Gun supposed to be, anyways? I have a hard time getting a read on how old all the different characters are supposed to be.
Also, Gun might also act like an old person as a joke. Wouldn't be the first green-haired r07 character to do that.

Which characters are you guys hoping to see more of in Ciconia episode 2? Which characters do you want to see less of?
I hope we get more Valentina.

>>22480491
Take your time. As you said, it's a very expansive subject with much to cover. There's much uncharted territory and unexplored depths worth delving into. In order to have a well rounded and fleshed out understanding of every square inch. Be sure and explore what lies beneath the surface and to make use of the sensitive issues lying at the center.

>>22480588
Cairo squad needs to be given something to do.

>>22480546
Just how hairy is her pussy?

>>22480656
The hair is quite long but it doesn't cover a huge area. It's very soft.

>>22480685
Wtf, literally everything is wrong there.

>>22479792

>You're saying that George's motive is Shannon, yet every scene demonstrating his motive is true is a meta scene, which you've said aren't necessary for your theory to work.
Battler the detective understand from jessica that george love shannon
And from eva in the garden shed that she oppose to their marriage.

>love rule
I have different solutions.
1)a good motive:
At the start of ep 7 Williard said that he could not belive in a crime without a good motive.
Erika is the ep 6 said that love is a good motive
So from this we understand that exist a van dine rule that allow love if love is a good motive.

2)devil proof:
Only the 4 van dine rule that Will said exiat in umineko.
In other words i can slightly change the rules that didnt accord to my theory
Eccept these 4 in red
3)still valid:
In may differet sites this vam dine rule are written in different way such as:
>no love story for the detective
>love story must take a minor part
So is possible that for van dine these 2 are the real meaning of the ruel
4)mystery:
All the love story part are meta-scene that battler didnt saw
so arent part of the mystery.

>>22446982
Reminder the old higurashi was way better

>>22480757
In the Shkannon solution IT was Battler's broken promise. However accomplices should have an minor motive like Love to assist the Mastermind.

>>22480980
Yep every accomplice have that:

Kanon the true culprit:Battler's broken promise.
George the second culprit/co-plotter/ecc:
Obtain from kanon the 2 billion card and to kill the all obstacles to his marriage (eva and battler) so his motive his love.
Genji for him kanon was the son he never had, he saved kanon from kinzo,
he raised him for his happiness he would do anything. So his motive his love
Kumasawa:like genji for kanon she was his mother and she need money for her family. (So her motive is love)
Nanjo:beed money for save his grandchild life (so his motive is love)

Without love you it cannit be seen.
(Admit that this motives are better than
I am eva and i am bad,i am rosa and i need money ecc)
How can shkanon explaine a motive for everyone is the culprit?

>>22475249
lmao

tfw

>>22481044
wtf george's love is gonna make him kill everyone
oh nooooo

>>22481512
Well usually a bullet in the head convinces even the most obstinate person

horror, mystery and romance are the 3 greatest and most interesting genres. that's what i realized after reading tons of stories. it's no wonder i like umineko so much.
or maybe that's just my taste. just a tiny dab of any of these will improve a story tenfold.

>>22481329
That's not even Mion Mion, she's alternate universe Shion Mion. And she likes bullying lolis.

I wonder if Mion Shion is getting bullied at St. Lucia's for playing board games with her nerdy friends.

>>22480546
The most damning part of her TIP was her military rank - even if she's the commander of her trio, she still VASTLY outranks them - using NATO's codes, she's OF-7, while Miyao (and likely ya boi) are OF-1.

>>22480573
That may also be a red herring - you know, like a certain blue-haired witch that we believed to be an ally in Umineko, since her blue-haired counterpart was one of the protagonists of Higu

>>22480546
>Her sisters are grown ass adults with actual jobs
were they?
they have jobs but i don't know about the adults part.

>>22481044
Anyway, I wanted to agree with you. I interprete Van 3rd as "A detective story should be still a mystery even there is a love motive in it". Therefore, an engaged woman who lost her fiance due conspiracy will be able to turn into a murderer. It is just an advice, like the original rule stated, to avoid a story that ends with the final union of the protagonist and the heroine which was a typical cliché ending in belles lettre. Love, Revenge or Greed were characteristic motives for the "Golden Age".
So Kanontrice, Rosatrice or whatever are allowed to have a love motive. This tale was written to make Battler understands Beatrice.

>>22482476
> This tale was written to make Battler understands Beatrice.
umineko's love story is a tragedy but who knows why tragedies are always the best stories.
I hate those who use the term bad ending
why is it bad?
this bad ending made me feel more emotion than any good endings.
the end of umineko is not a good ending, in the end the past has not been changed and the deads remain dead, but in the end Battle finally understands Beatrice.

>A detective story should be still a mystery even there is a love motive in it
totally agree
this is not a sweet story where in the end everything ends well, it is a mystery where people die! a sweet end is not for this genre
>So Kanontrice, Rosatrice or whatever are allowed to have a love motive
Erikantrice not kanontrice and pls not compare me with rosatrice i dont want that my theory seem a subtitute for rosatrice but a real solution for umineko.

>>22480491
>>22480610
Is there really so much to write about fake tranny breasts?

>>22481329
the demon gene is real

>>22483471
You don't write about the fake ones anon. You write about the real ones.

>>22480613
They were certainly conspicuously absent in Phase 1. Given Seshat's connection to Egypt, I think the Cairo squad will be a lot more important going forward.

>>22480588
I hope Lilja didn't actually die. She hasn't even confessed to Koshka yet!

>>22482475
I mean, she introduces her cyclops sister as a "friend". Even though she's literally her sister.

She doesn't want Miyao and Jayden to ask questions like "how the hell can your sister be older than you and own a restaurant?".

She's hiding her true age, otherwise she wouldn't have introduced her sister as a random friend of hers.

>>22482475
One owns a shop and the other is working as a humiliatee secretary for a fat old military guy straight out of a doujinshi. They have papers and everything, they can't be minors.

>>22482381
>The most damning part of her TIP was her military rank - even if she's the commander of her trio, she still VASTLY outranks them - using NATO's codes, she's OF-7, while Miyao (and likely ya boi) are OF-1.
Didn't she heavily imply that she escaped from her shithole life because she was super hot and fucked old guys as a preteen loli so they would treat her as a blue subject in exchange?

She talks about wanting to splatter her brain on the asphalt to forget the humiliations she subjected herself to. And in one of the tips she basically says that if Miyao had been there to tell her she was a talentless shit, she would have given up on her dream early on and pursue a different career. And she would've liked that version of herself a lot more than she likes her current self. Meaning she probably sold her dignity and got her asshole busted in order to artificially climb the ranks and reach her position.

I assume she probably got her secret job by sucking a lot of dick too.

>>22484288
Why would anyone want to get anywhere near Gunhild's pathetic human anus? Let alone give her something in exchange.

>>22484241
Maja was still training to be a Gauntlet Knight, so she has to be fairly young. Probably 17-20 years old.

>>22484288
Sure, Gunhild's rank and sudden increase in P3 imply that she's involved in something shady, but it's not necessarily selling her dignity. She might be an assassin or a double agent of some sort. Or maybe the process that she used to increase her power levels involves killing people and harvesting their brains. There's still lots of possibilities.

>>22484229
>otherwise she wouldn't have introduced her sister as a random friend of hers.
Yeah, what the fuck is up with that?

I would convert to Islam for Naima!

>>22473542
>KNOX 4TH:It is forbidden for unknown drugs or hard to understand scientific devices to be used.
nothing hard to understand about small bombs
>Van Cuck
No thanks

>>22479427
Koshka? More like Bestka
>>22479493
Yes

>>22480757
Alright, I accept your reasoning for this. However, I still believe that George being a killer violates the rule.

>>22485727
Really thanks
Discussing with you improve my theory

>>22485814
I understand. I hate when I have an idea and people won't debate. Even if I'm wrong, neither I nor the other person will learn if there's no debate.

>>22485819
thanks to you, that exposed the problems of my theory, I could fix them. to say that one thing is wrong without a discussion is fanatical and it's sad that on 4chan happens.
how can you decide the truth without a discussion, as if you were right, regardless, but this is one of humanity's great problems, people who cannot argue turn to violence to impose their own ideas
True 1 bit goats
(if you find other errors in my theory I would be happy to discuss them with you again)

>>22485727
Just asking: George killing for a possible marriage with Shannon violates the rule, does it?
Van Dine's detective novels have sometimes "love interests" in them. However they are usually used to deduce (not necessarely murder motives ). Murdering accomplices are not forbidden.

>>22486314
well in many internet sites
van dine rule rue 3 is written different from the original:
>no love story for the detective.
>love story must take a minor part in the story.
ecc so maybe this is the real meaning.
>Murdering accomplices are not forbidden
the van dine rule that allow only one culprit is different in umineko
will during the game said:
>There must be but one true culprit.
TRUE CULPRIT so mastermind
so george is A culprit not the TRUE culprit

>he's still spouting nonsense about Umineko 8 years later

>>22486446
>autism
Proud of it
Battler take 12 years to find the truth
I just 9 years

>>22446982
Genji, that in my theory is an accomplice, said that he warned the police about the position of erika but as we know the phones were broken and in the tips of the 6th game we know that the parents of erika had no news of her presence on rokkenjima.
so if shkanontrice is true for what reason genji would have lied? if instead erika is kanon the sentence of genji would have been a good way to strengthen her false identity

sad this thread is death.

>>22488977
I only check these threads to see if you stopped posting in them. You’re an insufferable autistic retard and have made these threads unbearable. I hope you get bored of Umineko someday and find some other stupid bullshit to sperg on about endlessly

>>22489251
I wish the fucking mods would ban him already. What are they doing?

>>22489251
>>22489254
>I hope you get bored of Umineko someday
umineko is the most beautiful story ever, which has changed my life
would you ever be able to forget about your family, your first love or the ideas you believe in?
no are part of you
>I wish the fucking mods would ban him already. What are they doing?

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win” gahndi
thanks anon you made me realize that my theory is making sense to you, too, and you're afraid of it.

>>22489254
If they never did anything about humiliation anon for years they're not going to suddenly start do something about this guy.

>>22489732
Humiliation anon also made like 5% as many posts as this guy and didn't constantly try to get people to argue with him. I'd rather have 5 humiliation anons than this guy.

>>22489738
That's not the point. My point is that even if you ignore and report it's not going to stop them.

>>22489254
He really hasn't done anything banworthy. It's an unfortunate reality that at least a solid 30% of posters here enjoy his presence and discussing with him, either ironically or unironically.

I don't know WHO you are and why you're complaining about italian anon(because of His English skills, isn't IT?). It's much better than these disgusting Satoko posts. You can still post about Circonia while ignoring Erikantrice. And I never saw someone really trying to refute the theory because it's "bothersome".
>Why can this idiot not accept the canon
> Cannot write English and Italian? It's a fag.

>>22490962
Nice try, your English is much better now. It's still distinctly ESL though.

>>22490970
Nope he is not me
He is just an anon who find strange so much hate against me.

>>22489287
Personally I will only ever find your stuff interesting if R07 himself says something like yes this guy's got it listen to him. Until then, you're irrelevant.

>>22491402
R07 never confirm it before tha manga because he wanted to create an eternal mystery but the producers of the manga wanted a solution so he take the more popular one and confirm it.
But i belive that now ryukishi is still wating someone who never surrend, never stop to think and find the real solution and this someone is me!!!

>>22491402
Tell him.

>>22491418
Tell him.

>>22491427
My theory is still incomplete maybe i didnt find some points so Before i wanted spread it for find other people and with discussion fix all the parts.
When my theory will be perfect i will send it to him.

>>22450526
reminder of anon's research from a while back:

>So I've been reading medical documents and going through research done on the long term effects of full castration/penectomy on the body, especially when done at an early age (<11yo).

>Castrated men develop a larger pituitary gland in the brain which is a gland that controlls several other hormone glands. They also tend to end up developing kyphosis which is basically a hunched back, can be slight or really fucked. Gynecomastia is frequently observed and the prostrate either dissapears or becomes extremely small.

>All in all, from all of this, Sayo would have/be:

>frequently tired
>frequent headaches
>easily agitated
>mood changes
>too much prolactin (innapropriate secretion of breast milk which can leak from no stimulation or even from clothing friction)
>small puffy breasts would develop
>growth hormone deficiency
>excessive urinating
>sleep problems
>poor memory

>Sayo was made for lewding and maximum protecting.

>>22491432
Here's an idea. How about you stop posting until you finish your theory. Then just post it once, and leave it at that. Though not at all would be better in all honesty.

>>22491440
Left one chapter and i finish my manifesto (so is useless).
And is better by discussing with anons here i fixed many part of my theory and disocover new one:
>Like van dine truths all valide in my manifesto
But i lost in some arguments
>An anon find that in the anime on the chapel door there is a lock that allow shkanon to lock the door without key.(idk if this is a device or not)
By arguing my theory became ever day more perfect.

So anon this is 4chan and this is a thread where people discussing about umineko
So to enjoy our discussion i bet that you will have fun.

>>22489732
Why exactly did humiliation anon piss people off anyway? His posts were much more lewd than most hentai at best, and slightly humorous at worst. What's the problem with those posts?

>>22491488
Repetitiveness. His posts were incredibly one-note after a while, and that fact that he'd post the same stuff several times every day for years on end got old really fast.

>erikanontard
>humiliation anon
>i want to deito lucifer anon
they ruined all umineko threads forever

>>22491500
The human condition of Ushiromiya Maria is eternal and everlasting. Of course it'd get repetitive. How is humiliation anon supposed to change up the formula.

>>22491402
>Personally I will only ever find your stuff interesting if R07 himself says something like yes this guy's got it listen to him.
This is about as brain-dead as italian anon. Arguably even more.

>>22491548
What is the big brain thing to do, then, oh sagacious one?

>>22491613
Even if we were to reveal it, you wouldn't understand.

>>22491723
Retard.

>>22491723
what a master class of a post