/jp/ - Otaku Culture

ERIKANTRICE MANIFESTO CHAPTER 6 IS OUT:
Discover what is real happened in end of the golden witch.

>what is erikantrice:
Is a theory who explaine all the games (including reality and bern's game) with the same culprits,george and kanon, and the same accomplices,genji kumasawa and nanjo.

>even if you do join us that's make 17 humans. Erika increase the number of person by 1 so how can your theory explaine this?.
Simple what if the +1 person proived by erika was already been counted?
ERIKA=KANON this is why she didnt saw kanon's body in the closet (a detective cant see lie).

With yasu=ikuko erikantrice can explaine all the meta

Is it gay to fap to Beatrice?

>>22413062
It's never been gay. Beato is a metaphysical being. She only has a physical form in the Meta world, where she has a female body.

>>22413062
Nope yasu is a cute tomboy and battler love her

>>22413062
if it is then what's the point of not being gay

>>22413062
It's gay not to.

Did he really do it or was it yet another bait

>>22413062
What do you think?

>>22414070
I think more.

>>22413062
I could never decide so I end up just fapping to Ange

>>22412861
>ERIKANTRICE MANIFESTO
Regarding Erika's detective status in EP 5 it could be helpful for you:
-read the full text of Knox's Commandments, it may help you. Most of the time the short version are present.
- Read again how red truth works: witches doesn't need proof, humans do need proof
- Bern is a detective, too. On the other hand she is a supernatural being. So she actually need "human" proof. You already saw this in your manifest. Unless the detective isn't the detective.
- The detective may be a qualification instead of a novel role (hinted in Erika's profile).
- It has to be clarified whether Eiserne Jungfrau are witches/supernatural being or not.

>>22414526
i purposely avoided the argument if erika is the detective or not.
bernkastel is 100% the detective but not a witch
a witch is someone who knows the whole truth bern knows nothing
so how does Bern use reds if she knows nothing?
simple pawn,erikka, could confirm all the reds from the game
bern was tricked by lambda and erika.

I refered to the court scene before Battler was equalized to DEATH. Only a Game Master knows the truth. Other witches just do not need proof. Bernkastel is indeed a witch but it seems she isn't able to speak red truth without proof.

>>22414929
Bern is a human.
She is in the human faction she wasnt a witch of the witch faction
How i can prove this?
Virgilia said: in the name of virgilia no, in the name of ex-witch of endless i declare that natsuhi is not the culprit!.
Wait 2 witchs spoke in red but one is true without proof and the other not why?

>>22414425
A fine compromise

>>22415105
ANGE PAIZURI

>>22415199
Ange practicing with Mammon's stake for when she meets up with Battler in the meta world.

>>22414145
thanks bern

>>22412854
ange's still getting new art.

>>22415105
>>22415235
>>22415769
I want to play with ange's anges

canon

Shannon naizuri

canon

>>22415789
Do you think they're more on the soft or firm side? Springy or cushy? Bouncy or jiggly?
>>22416182
Better version.

>>22415235
Wish there was a "no body fluids" edit of this.

>>22416756
Ange only wears panties when she's naked.

>>22417010
Ushiromiyas have sick fetishes

>>22417010
Ange sleeps in the nude but her roommate at school found out and made fun of her.

>>22417024
Incest

>>22416984
I could very easily make one if you'd like.

>>22417010
You don't need panties if your skirt is already covering everything.

>>22417343
Here

>>22417153
It's normal! Grandpa does it too!

>>22417428
Kinzo would be proud.

Too bad Ushiromiyas fucking DIE.

>>22416756
Probably soft and jiggly

>>22418932
great for paizuri

>>22417419
Thanks anon

>>22419507
You're welcome anon.

i LOVE Erika!

>>22419683
I adore Erika !

Why are Keiichi and Battler such lolicons?

>>22419773

>>22419727
I want her to commit the perfect crime on me

>>22419773
What did you expect when his dad draw loli porn to earn money?

I'm too tired to get up and sit at my computer these days
By any chance would there be a youtube channel to read Ciconia's first phase, even going beyond that "no recording allowed" warning just after Jayden's date with Meow?

>>22420705
buy a cheap used laptop, then buy the game you loser

>>22420705
Just read it, how in the hell can you watch something on youtube but not read it? Unless you're watching it on your phone, ew.
Also, how in the fuck are you too tired to sit on your ass behind a fucking computer screen? Unless you're literally dying of cancer I have trouble believing that.

I wish Erika would give me this look right before my death

Erika is my girlfriend, we are married and we will have kids

>>22420119
Ichirou did nothing wrong.

What kind of gay is this?

>>22422858
what do you mean man, it's completely hetero, meow is a girl xD

>>22422858
It's a reminder why most of these girls(male or female) would be annoying as fuck to date. Things get hot and heavy, but now you gotta spend three hours figuring out how to take off their absurdly frilly dress without ruining it.

>>22422673
nope erika now is married with battler!!!!!

Guys the answare is 0!!!!
Couple of what?
There are only 2 person with 11 different personality he and his wife
So his wife cant shake hands with anyone.
0

>>22422966
You don't understand the joy of opening a well packaged gift, anon.

>>22423640
Without it, hands cannot be 'shaken'.
People definitely shook hands at that party.

>>22423782
This guy gets it. Clothes are mere packing with signaling of importance. Removing it adds to the unknown expectation and exhilaration. And the ideal is to have the gift match or even exceed your imagination as you unwrap it.

>>22423372
I give her rack an A+

>>22417513

BATORA PLEASE FUCK MY WIIIIIFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>22425095
back off

>>22425074
Such wonderful love between siblings.

I hope Miyao/Meow is male, if they're a girl that's lame!

A friend found out that I like Umineko and he started talking about how he loved watching the anime and posting in the /a/ threads about it. But 10 years later he hasn't even read the answers arc. Is there a more pitiful occurrence?

>>22425129

I want to sniff Erika’s butt

>>22425331
but i don't like shotas, Miyao isn't a little boy

>>22425304
>having a friend
fuck off normie

>>22423955
How can Satoko's human loli ass ever be considered a gift?

>>22425374
uhhh??? it should go without saying it's an e-friend??

Is the Umineko manga worth reading if I’ve already read the VN? I learned that there’s additional information/contexts in Requiem and Twilight. Is it possible to only read those two arcs or should I start from the beginning?

>>22425566
Start from the beginning if you're interested in rereading it, but if you just want new stuff you can read just the last ones.

>>22425566
umineko manga is fucking shit
add,cut and change half of the story for made shkanontrice works
read this:https://pastebin.com/XVrRMWqS

>>22425566
It goes without saying, but you can ignore >>22425615

>>22425673
in the last thread we confirm that the manga lied about closed room circle
shkanontrice solution for closed room circle can be true in the VN but not in the manga
so the manga is fake.

>>22425758
You didn't confirm jack shit. you just ignore facts or twist them to suit your conveniences.

>>22425782
>>22425758
Here we go.

>>22425758
>spam the same retarded shit for dozens of thread
>ignore people when they debunk them
>"b-but muh theory!"
Fuck off

>>22425782
not only me even the shkanontrice anon confirm that manga is fake

the red truth said:
>Furthermore, all of the doors and windows on the six rooms are normal. No device exists which can lock them without a key, such as an auto-lock.
so its possible for kanon close the chaple with the lock on the door (look the pic)
but in the manga the red truth is:
>There is no means of locking the doors and windows of those six rooms without the keys.
so its impossible close the door for kanon!!!!

doesen't matter if shkanontrice is true or not
the manga is fake in every case

>>22425793
>>22425822
look this>>22425822
i find this by arguing with another anon
i lost in this point
i cant deny that the lock on the door isnt a device
so this isnt a contracdition anymore but this confirm that the manga is fake!!!

>>22425822
>bathroom lock
>in a chapel outside the house
Anon, I...

The manga is for story reading. If you don't like solving problems or mysteries then it is gold for you.

>>22425846
Or if you've already solved it and want to check your answers.

>>22425843
man its not my fault
its the anime
ep10 18:00

>>22425863
>anime
>canon
Dude you're just getting worse

>>22425788
relevant.

>>22425872
if the anime wasnt canon
erikantrice is true
there is no way for kanon to close the chapel so shkaontrice is fake.
so its better for you belive in the anime!!!

Why the fuck are we talking about this stupid shit again and again and again? Why aren't we talking about Ciconia?

>>22425876
Yes, that is literally my post thanks.
>>22425898
Because people in these threads are retarded. Erikantricefag keeps aggressively baiting and retards keep taking the bait. People who actually want to talk about Ciconia probably actually jumped ship for Reddit or something because they think it can't be this bad.

>>22425913
>>22425898
nah just ciconia is not like umineko
all the mystery are shounen tier
and everyone just understand that all is VIRTUAL REALITY

>>22425921
This comment will age like milk. I can't believe someone would actually read Umineko and Higurashi and then read Ciconia and think "this looks generic so it must be generic".
How do people keep falling for Ryukishi's tricks?

unfortunate manga panels

>>22425987
how draw this shit really read the vn?
lambda character ruined.

i was wondering why the thread seemed slightly more dead and its because theres 2 threads up

>>22425987

>>22426070
what?

>>22426070
I can't find it. Am I retarded?

>>22426492
search WHEN THEY CRY on the catalog
>Am I retarded
yes

>>22426432
Is this incest, or masturbation?

>>22426717
Yes.

>>22426717
Nothing
Lesbian
Kanon is a cute tomboy!!!!

You might not like it, but this is what WTC looks like

>>22426908
>Dawn
>Worse than Himatsubushi

>>22427007
Okay I admit Dawn's best moments are really good, even if the non-best moments are mostly bad

>>>/v/485356725

which one of you did this

i found an old post of mine where my sarcasm was a bit too optimistic

>>22424249

Umineko only here. Reading Ciconia reminded me that I haven’t read Higurashi yet, but I remember hearing that some of the releases/translations are pretty bad. What releases should be avoided?

>>22427641
Read the Steam releases. The last one is STILL not out though, so either wait for it or read the original mangagamer release, though it has details like less music for some reason

>>22425122
You think Ange gives him paizuri?

>>22425304
>unaware of the VN after 10 years
>enjoyed the anime
Cut off all connection with this subhuman

>>22427641
Whether you read the old or the new MG release, patch the music and sound effects. Neither translation is any good, but if you want a REALLY good experience for the first arc only, there's Uncle Mion's demo translation if you can track it down. I'm redoing the old translation and porting it back to ONScripter, but am only halfway through the second arc, so for the time being it's a lesser-of-evils sort of choice.

>>22427978
100%. Ange would definitely be familiar with her brother's preference for big boobs, and would surely make good use of the suitable pair she'd inherited.

>>22427244
With how long it's taking just to put out a complete translation, I can't imagine how long it'll take to actually translate new content.

>>22426908
Dawn is good when you discover that erika is kanon!!!!

>>22428377
the meme game is on point at least, kek

>>22428594
Sorry i am stupid
What you mean with meme game?

>>22428688
meme kinda sounds like mean so it means your posts and theories and kind of intimidating, you know

>>22428739
>kind of intimidating
What?
Really my memes scare you?
Sorry for that but my meme are gun free
No american was shoted after read my manifesto!!!!

anything new in terms of ciconia discussion? both for the west or on the jp side.

>>22429303
communities don't really work like that anymore, if Ciconia were a mobage that had chapters released every few months it would be a different story.

Speedreader here. The traitors are at least Stan and Rethabile right

>>22428157
>>22419323
>>22416756
>>22415235
>>22415235
>>22415105


big

>>22429712
this is awfully lewd...

>>22429712
is that battler's ass

>>22429738
the real question is
is that ange's dick?

GUYS 1000 VIEW FUCKING THANKS!!!!
I cant belive that my theory become so popular.
Really thanks /jp/ here i found the true by arguing with all of you made me discover the absolute truth of umineko.
We are winning guys soon everyone will accept our theory!!!

>>22429586
Why do you think that?

>>22429712
fat

I wish I could experience figuring out Umineko for the first time again.

>that moment of clarity and epiphany when you realize that all the self loathing about being a furniture or less than human coming from Yasu in the narration wasn't related to being a servant as a status but underlying issues going beyond that
>When you realize after reading End of the Golden witch and re reading Legend onwards how Shannon and Kanon never appeared together, not even ONCE, in front of the detective piece during the first four episodes
>Beatrice sprite popping up the first time with Shannon
>The EP4 tea party basically displaying in plain sight through Beatrice's words and behavior what you should be focused on as she receives more damage when you talk about Kanon or the possibility of someone using Kinzo as a fake name or title
>Ange and Maria stuff in EP4 being a literal torture to read at first when it's actually a treasure trove of information filled with parallels mirroring and making you understand Yasu's situation and how magic worked for the both of them

etc. And I'm missing other obvious things. It's astounding how much of this shit was planned out. People may call Ryukishi a hack or be disappointed with how the story turned out when you look at how Requiem and Twilight fucked up in several ways but you can't deny the sheer amount of thought that was put inside Umineko. People doubting him because he said he'd make Ciconia similar to Evangelion or because it feels generic are retarded

>>22430721
read umineko after reading erikantrice manifesto
you will read it like it was the first time.

>When you realize after reading End of the Golden witch and re reading Legend onwards how Shannon and Kanon never appeared together, not even ONCE, in front of the detective piece during the first four episodes

after reading end of the golden witch you understand that erika is kanon.
cmon how can you really belive that for erika natsuhi is the culprit.

>Beatrice sprite popping up the first time with Shannon
the chest of kanon and erika sprites is equal

>>The EP4 tea party basically displaying in plain sight through Beatrice's words and behavior what you should be focused on as she receives more damage when you talk about Kanon or the possibility of someone using Kinzo as a fake name or title

in the game 4th tea party beatrice said that for kanon is a personality not a real human and george is the other culprit.

> People may call Ryukishi a hack or be disappointed with how the story turned out when you look at how Requiem and Twilight fucked up in several ways

because 1 bits goat dont understand the true
ERIKA=KANON

did beatrice appear at the end of ep1 or later?
i wonder if ciconia will reveal any major characters in ep2.

>>22429712
HUGE

>>22430763
>>Beatrice sprite popping up the first time with Shannon
>the chest of kanon and erika sprites is equal
kek
incredibly powerful argument

>>22430909
meta-erika-marriage and beatrice(meta-kanon) chests are equal!!!

>>22430909
Except it's wrong. Erika's chest has always been bigger.

>>22430721
>Battler's comeback in ep2 tea party
>Beatrice and Virgilia twist in ep3
>Ange crashing the party

>>22430838
Only at the tea party after ep1. Maybe Ciconia didn't have an equivalent to the tea party or higurashi's afterparty because the story didn't end yet, so we will probably be introduced to new characters next ep.

I want erika to smell and lick my crotch region

I'm reading Higurashi, I know I'm late to the party.
I'm having a hard time figuring the mysteries and the possibles culprits.
I've read the Question arc and I just finished reading again the first chapter.
Did you resolve the mysteries easily ? Did it take several rereads ? I plan to read again the 3 next chapter then I'll go for the Answer arc.

I figured some details because of the reread but a lot is still hazy in my mind. I'm such a brainlet

>>22431402
The cicadas did it just because they hate higurashi that much.

>>22425898
There's been a lot of Ciconia threads but with just Phase 1 there's too much we don't know
But yeah I'd be fine with just Ciconia fanart dumping even, Umineko ended 10 years ago, it's great and all but how much can one discuss (please don't answer Italian anon)

>>22431529
>please don't answer Italian anon

it's funny how free speech is die.
but its ok at beginning everyone hated Copernicus.

Do you think this guy or his supposed oneitis are still here? I remember one of them posting a thread with the picture of a chocolate cake with the Ushiromiya crest on it, and wanted to know how they made it or who they asked to do so. I was thinking of baking a similar cake for my older sister's birthday since she's the one who got me into reading the when they cry novels in the first place, but I can't draw for shit and I don't think tracing will help me here. I also wanted to see what they used, if it was gold colored icing or something else of that kind. Did anyone save the picture?

>>22431544
The difference being that you will eventually be forgotten and Erikantrice dumped into the sea of nothingness with all the other silly theories since Umineko was never about finding the absolute truth anyway.

>>22431402
It's not a truly solvable mystery.

>>22431594
umineko is a mystery.
there is a solution because ryukishi love us all
just this time he wanted that someone love this series so much to find the solution by himself.
if you think Umineko was never about finding the absolute truth anyway.u didnt read umineko or just surrend .
but i am not like you
i am a fucking autistic that love this visual novel
is the best fucking thing i ever read change my life not save my life, i cant accept this disguting shkanontrice ending that ruin this masterpiece
i will restore the dignity of umineko even if it will take 100 years.

>>22431587
You could try to copy what Gohda cooked in ep8. I think it was called a Sachertorte, go look it up on the internet to make sure. How good are your bakery skills?

>>22431594
You know his theory is shit when even Godhatrice make more sense

>>22431643
why?
i explaine all in my manifesto.
there are red truth denygohdatrice,rosatrice,shkanontrice
but there arent red truth that deny erikantrice
no one but for you my theory dosent have sense.

explaine?

>>22431402
there are SOME stuff you can figure out more or less easily but most of the answer twists aren't easily solvable with just the question arcs
like, you could "figure out" most stuff, but to be honest you'd be just guessing since there aren't enough "clues"

>>22431643
Gohdatrice is godlike for EP2 to be honest, just needs a little pulishing to avoid some red truths and it's a-ok. Truly a shame Gohda dies early in EP1 and 3. You could make a case for him in EP4 but to be honest you could do the same for half of the cast.

>>22431633
Thanks for the suggestion, anon. Looking up on Google both the Sachertorte and quickly checking the EP8 Manga, it seems to be that kind of cake.
>How good are your bakery skills?
I'm still in training, that's why I thought my sister would really be proud of me if I cokked her a full fledged birthday cake

>>22431618
You can never find the absolute truth of Umineko. We have absolutely no idea what happened on the island because only Battler knows and he doesn't want to tell. None of the games will help you find out because they're all either written before the killing or they're written by Battler and more about remembering his relatives.

>>22431733
ikuko is yasu.
the plan of the murdering was prepared before the killing yasu create many different possibility (legend,turn) and after the tragedy ikuko created different stories about rokkenjima but all with the same culprit george(banquet alliance end) for made battler remeber.

>>22431743
Even if Yasu is Ikuko (I don't believe she is), that doesn't prove that she's told the truth about what happened. You would have to prove that.

>>22431748
first for create a theory i need only prove(prove mean show clues) the games not the "meta parts"
reality and meta need only an interpratation.
but i can show proof anyway.

axiom:yasu = ikuko (this is true didnt need clue because we suppose that yasu is ikuko)

1st motive for prove that she's told the truth about what happened: her goal was made battler remember. for do that ikuko must write the truth about what happened.
2nd:erikantrice show that only for george and kanon is possible to be the culprits
so yasu wrote 5 times a story with george as the culprit. if this isnt the true why do it?

so if ikuko=yasu is absurd for her lie

>>22431618
>i am a fucking autistic
this is why you'll never be able to solve it, no matter how hard you struggle. it's a story designed to evade understanding by autismals.

>>22431815
but i solve it
try to read my manifesto instead of deny it without reason.

>>22430763
People must have been telling you this countless times already but could you please do something about your spelling? You must realize that form plays A HUGE factor if you want to convey a message, no matter how truthful it may be. I don't want to write off your love/autism for this reason alone because your theory might be as valid as anyone else's, but you will never be able to get your point across if you don't do something about your image. I'm still thinking you've been acting like this on purpose these past months only for recognition, given that the poor grasp on the English language you've displayed so far makes me doubtful on the fact that you managed to read Umineko in the first place. If you're really unable to form basic grammatically correct sentences, that is. Stop acting retarded

>>22431042
>Rosa fleeing with Maria at the end of Turn
>EVA Beatrice's web of red truths
>The entire Natsuhi trial in episode 5
>Battler finally realizing in the "???" of said episode
>Ushiromiya Kyrie cannot save Battler.
>Kinzo's flashback in EP7
>Ange meeting Tohya after all this time

So many kino moments. How can other VNs even compete?

>>22431044
>Maybe Ciconia didn't have an equivalent to the tea party or higurashi's afterparty because the story didn't end yet
So it may be structurally different from Higurashi and Umineko after all, not only in the setting but on how the story fragments will play out as well. It's a shame though, I liked those cast review moments. I wonder what will the second phase expand upon considering that shit went loose already. I hope we'll get to see if Stan's words near the end about Miyao telling them all to forget about order will get addressed.

>>22431402
You're in for a slight disappointment especially if you came from Umineko, who gave the reader a lot more of rules and tools to point you in the right direction if you paid attention. Apart from THAT MOMENT in Tatarigoshi, I don't think that there was anything really solid that could've helped you figuring stuff out within the question arcs, I'm afraid. You could throw one or two random guesses but you'll still be stuck in the dark without reading Higurashi Kai. You're not a brainlet at all anon, some plot points were really out of this planet.

>>22431587
>Do you think this guy or his supposed oneitis are still here?
Yes. Fortunately enough, I pussied out at the last second. I wasn't thinking straight kek I won't be able to help you since the pictures I took were on my old broken phone. I ordered the cake in a local bakery, asked the girl at the counter I wanted a chocolate cake (no matter the kind) with the crest drawn, little golden butterflies and a happy birthday message on it. I had to email them the Ushiromiya pic though. I hope you'll succeed with your birthday present in any case anon

>>22432145
Thank god you didn't off yourself, now you can suffer the sixth part of the erikantrice manifesto while you wait for Ciconia phase 2.

>>22431776
You assume that Ikuko's goal is to make Battler remember.
I posit this: If Ikuko is Yasu, her goal is to tell Tohya a story that paints George as the culprit in order to make herself look better to Tohya.

How far we've come to see the cracktheory Ikuko = Yasu somehow finding a way to include Erika in that entire mess?

>>22432145
welcome back suicide anon

>>22432712
>beach.ogg starts playing

>>22432712
>>22432803
i love it

>>22432743
>No Cornelia nor Gertrude
shit pic

Something I just now realized about Ciconia is WHERE are the fucking intelligence agency spooks? Is Keropoyo CIA?

>>22433153
Without love it can't be seen.

Erika is a filthy slut. I want to fuck her until she moans intelligible Agatha Christie quotes out of sheer pleasure from my throbbing cock. I want to duct tape her to a bed and lick the salty tears from her face as I violate her. No amount of reasoning will save Erika from the logic error wrought upon her by my penis. I mean, just imagine the thrill of cumming inside the trembling pussy of that smirky, pigtailed whore and waiting to see if her catbox bears a baby. My lust to simply EXPERIENCE her far exceeds the magnitude of the Sea of Fragments. My violent thrusting will make her MIND a Sea of Fragments. Yes, I will literally fuck her brains out. That is how much this intellectual rapist stimulates me. Unless I physically tear her brain apart with my penis, I will never be able to satiate my desire to copulate with this arrogant piece of shit. It's only then that the power of my penis authority will teach Erika that her detective authority is useless against rape when rape IS the solution to Umineko. Imagine a gameboard where the only way to investigate is to get raped! The best part is that her detective authority would work against her. Nobody would be allowed to step in to stop her "investigation" of me! I mean, if you can't kill the detective, why not reduce them to a mindless, babbling sex slave that sucks your dick at the snap of your fingers? If this were the case, I can guaran-fucking-tee you that she would drown faster in my sperm than the ocean. I would bet all 10 tons of the Ushiromiya gold on it, no fucking joke.

Man, I just really want to FUCK Erika.

>>22433176
I know that Toujirou is technically an intelligence officer but he just seems to be pursuing his own agenda throughout the game. I could just be forgetting things but I don't think we're really shown what the "actual" spooks are up to.

>>22433153
>he fell for the 'Kizuna is a tool made by the young, for the young, I swear it doesn't track nor register everything you say' meme
You're either a retard or a glownigger

>>22433246
Just wait for next episode when Mr. Cloud O. Delicious from America is introduced.
>>22433286
Yeah. The "fact" that it was made by a small team of engineers with muh nippon ingenuity and supposedly outperforms all similar software by big tech while remaining totally-not-backdoored has to be bullshit. Still would have liked to have seen more obvious psyops and glowniggery, but I suppose it is the first installment after all.

>>22432145
i cant belive again a reddit grammar nazi.
miss old thread where people arguing.

>>22432712
erika=kanon

>>22432145
Apparently, some liked the way of writing. I already told him to stop releasing the manifisto until he sorts his mind and writes it in proper British English.

>>22433925
>Prefering to read a clean text instead of a shitty mess is now considered being a grammar nazi

literally Ciconia

>>22434421
>Prefering to insult instead of argument is now considered logic

my manifesto have a bad grammar but this make it unique.
conforming is for 1bit goats

>>22433925
>Wanting to read something decent is acting like reddit
Fine. Give me a link to your pastebin or booru thing, right now. I want to read your manifesto

>>22434696
https://pastebin.com/XVrRMWqS
and my booru:https://erikce.booru.org/index.php

good reading

>>22434696
Good luck reading through this garbage anon, you'll need it.

>>22434748
>garbage
rude anon
can you explaine me why?
(other than grammar, i think insult grammar is the only weapon left to shkanontrice fags)

Stupid alien.

>>22435265
t. Rena

I want to thighfuck ange

>>22432712
You're wilfully misinterpretating some trolls, and more particularly Italian anon. While the Ikuko = Yasu theory has been wrongfully fought by low IQs, overly emotional goats, and while it does make a tremendous amount of sense, Italian anon has been using it to bolster his own theory. Either he is trolling, and that's all good and fair, or he is serious, and then he is no better than the goats fighting against the Ikuko = Yasu theory. Not strictly worse though. Italian anon is roughly on the same level.

Need I really summarize the numerous arguments about why Ikuko = Yasu makes perfect sense? The clever name wordplay? The character insights? The answer as to why Ikuko was so invested in Battler, and already knew all about Rokkenjima? That has been already discussed to death. It's a reasonably theory, that respect the characters more than what we actually got, and solves most of the later issues of Umineko.

You know I'm right. You know it. You're just trolling because that's funny, but then, yeah, you're not better than Italian anon, assuming he's just trolling.

>>22435504
>hat's all good and fair, or he is serious, and then he is no better than the goats fighting against the Ikuko = Yasu theory. Not strictly worse though. Italian anon is roughly on the same level.

anon i am not a troll i have just bad english i belive in everything i post(eccept funny memes)
yasu = ikuko is perfect
I don't understand why my arguments about it arent ok?
and why i am the same levels of goats?
I think I'm one of the few who understood iyasu=ikuko

>>22435591
The issue is that, while you have maybe found a loophole in the meta-structure of Umineko, assuming you're totally serious about your theory, which I highly doubt, the Ikuko = Yasu isn't a loophole. Not like Rosatrice. Certainly not like Erikatrice.

It's a simple conclusion one can make with the facts, that answers most of the unanswered questions of Umineko, and solve the wordplay behind Ikuko's name, wealth, interest in Battler, surprising total knowledge of what happened in Rokkenjima, good enough to write entire books about it, and sheer eccentricities.

While your theory is just being "not entirely impossible", given the red truths, which should not be a standard in any capacity.

All the episodes, starting with episode 1, push the Shkannontrice theory retrospectively. It's entirely obvious. It's entirely obvious from almost the first sentence of the first scene. I respect the fact that you're so driven that you built an entire theory around some loopholes, and especially more if you're a troll, that takes some serious autistic dedication.

Yasu = Ikuko is not a loophole. It respects characters, authorial intent, the provided answer to Umineko, and actually answers more questions than the basic work that are typically unanswerable without it. As if Ryukishi wanted you to accept it.

>>22435647
trust me i am total series about it
is only thanks to me that everyone here discover yasu=ikuko so i need some respect.

>All the episodes, starting with episode 1, push the Shkannontrice theory retrospectively

i dont think
saw ep 6,7 can be a nice clue for shkanontrice
but not in the first 4 games.
instead is cleary pushed george as culprit
how much george love shannon and how george will do everything for her even "KILL ALL HIS FAMILY"
for kanon he literrally disappier in every games.
so is pretty obvious that these 2 are the culprits.

>Yasu = Ikuko is not a loophole
yasu=ikuko is perfect and the only way to explaine everything without using meta.

>>22435647
> your theory is just being "not entirely impossible"
my theory respect all red truths and can give an interpretation to all mete-scene.

so is very possible
meanwhile rosatrice and shkanontrice violates red truths.
rosatrice is destroyed by the red truth:
>Rosa and Maria died. The causes of death were as Nanjo diagnosed (The diagnosis for Maria and Rosa were bare handed strangling and a stab to the medulla oblongata with the pointed gate of the fence, respectively.)
no personality can be stabbed
and shkanontrice by:
>2nd game genji killed nanjo and kumasawa
>van dyne: no servant can be a culprit.
(and many others)

erikantrice is the only one who respect all red truths so, according with hempel crow, is the truh.

>>22435693
>how much george love shannon and how george will do everything for her even "KILL ALL HIS FAMILY"
that doesn't seem like george at all actually and I don't think it's ever implied he even could do something like that

>>22435729
alliance of the golden witch:
the test
george choice to kill all his family for shannon.

>>22435720
>>2nd game genji killed nanjo and kumasawa
Didn't their corpses disappear until they found them later? They could have been killed before, Genji only had to drag them out.

>>22435732
I don't think that counts as enough proof seeing it's never talked about ever in the rest of the story

>>22435753
yes totally true
but in the manga genji killed them
so shkanontrice is forced to belive in genji culprit
but this is a Contradiction

>>22435756
>enough proof
literrally ryukishi said that george is the true heir of kinzo is not enought for you?
ok in every game there is the moment where george ask to shannon to marry him,
george is always die at the end of the game.
george is the only corpse that battler saw before the meeting with beatrice in the 4th games
he was covered by blood but with only a hole in the head(not enought for all this blood),
ecc
there are many clue

>>22435788
that's the thing, excluding shannon's love which to be honest counts way more as proof for shkanontrice than otherwise
thematically all of that other shit is meaningless when it's never even implied george wanted to do something like that and all we really know from his personality is he's a beta bitch which really even excluding killing other people to maybe protect shannon would most certainly never actually kill his parents/family for something like that

>>22435788
>literrally ryukishi said that george is the true heir of kinzo is not enought for you?
Where? Battler is the one that is most like Kinzo.

I remember Ryukishi saying that he originally intended for Ikuko and Tohya to marry each other, but changed it because he was told by female staff it was a bad idea. If Yasu is Ikuko, how would you explain this? It would make perfect sense. It seems like he's kowtowing to staff that didn't know it.

>>22435814
Elliot Rodger killed people. George can too.

>>22435868
Even if battler lost all his memory he fallen in love again with yasu
So romantic

>>22435850
Also Battler become sth succesor in EP5 while Eva on EP3.

>>22435814
>he's a beta bitch
Now you are the troll
George is the perfect example of a perfect man:
Strong smart rich
Is not a beta
Eva for made him the perfect heir torturing him , she made him study,train all the day so he never develop social skill.
So when with shannon threat him gently he immediately fallen in love.
He hated her mother for her abuse but when her forbit his marriage with shannon it was too much for him
And when kanon offered to him 2 billion yen to kill his mother george accepted.

>>22435915
Battler is better and cooler.

>>22435915
is that really the best motivation you could get to make him kill literally his whole fucking family including his father?
also he is never shown to really hate his mother and he was literally working on being independent aka "making his own castle" so that he didn't have to give a shit to what his mother said and his father was easily going to support him on that

>>22435950
I know batter is one of mine favorite characters of all times.
But admit george is kinzo
Kinzo killed all his comrades for beatrice
Like george his family for shannon

>>22435958
Trying to find motives for characters besides Yasu to kill is impossible. Yasu's mysteries involve paying people (Ironic for all of R07's talk about love, every one of Yasu's mysteries comes down to money with no deeper personal motivation, but maybe that speaks to their perception of the Ushiromiyas) and Battler and Ikuko's mysteries don't explore who other killers might be. The best we get is Rudolf and Kyrie in EP7, which uses the exact same explanation for every other killer in the story. (Lol money)

>>22435992
and that's mostly why I feel just making any one person other than yasu be the culprit/help with the kills every single time stupid
it doesn't make sense in the context of the story

I STILL have problems making parallels between the meta world and the real world
If Tohya/Ikuko wrote EP3 and 4 then why is it said again and again, like if it was something emotional and hard to do (having in count Battler having troubles with it in EP6), that Beatrice made EP 1-4? She made 1-2, yeah, and more we never saw, but she has no responsability whatsoever in 3-4, then why does the meta-narrative act like she does?
In fact, why is meta Battler still fighting to reach the "truth" (about Beato) in EP3-4 (and 5)? If Tohya helped writing them then he literally already knew the answer. And, I mean, him writing EP3 and 4 makes sense, since in EP3 he tries to mix Yasu stuff (which he should know if he read confessions) with the Eva culprit theory. And EP4 has other memories of him, like the test stuff (assuming EP7 is kind of the truth). But then what Tohya is trying to do seems to be remembering what actually happened, not resolving Beatrice's identity. He already knows who she is. Unlike Meta-Battler.
EP5 is even worse because it's wrote by Lambda in the meta even though it's also wrote by Tohya-Ikuko, supposedly. What sense does that make, as for the parallels between the meta and the real world? Actually, Lambda-Bern-Erika stuff is totally out of place going by this interpretation.
Then there are EP7 and especially EP8, and how does Ange fits in all of this, with her confusing time travel between EPs.
The more I thought about it the more it seems to me meta-stuff is real enough by itself and real-world stuff is there to be confusing but way less relevant. So many things Beatrice makes little to no sense if we try to compare it to the real world. Even though it's the most important stuff, narratively speaking. And I'm saying this even if Ikuko is Yasu, which I don't believe since having the option of just abandoning Rokkenjima and living a life of luxury and laziness kind of ruins her character, in my opinion.

>>22435504
Dunno why it isn't reasonable to discuss things any further. There might be things to shed light on and people won't join the discussion because they think it is already answered. They followed people like jjblue, ramblings and several users on animesuki because they cared to explain the whole thing. This meant for newbies of the series/Umineko there is no argument to discuss and spoilers everythere.

I'd say the manga was just the top of the iceberg for most fans, however it was a sweet, poisonous digestif of the ending of Umineko. It killed the cat in the box and it became common knowledge. I wonder if Ryukishi had this in mind to punish unworthy readers/goats/Rosatricers blah blah.

Nobody really believes Battler might be completely wrong with his silly promise. If he had returned to the island next year after the made the promise it wasn't guaranteed he would have forgotten the whole thing. That's why I find the specific scenes in EP7 quite silly (Days of Trial).

>>22435958
> best motivation you could get
yes my motivation is love
an abused boy that find someone who love him
and for her he will do anything.

>>22435992
>>22436003
so you like everyone is the culprit.
eva culprit in all the game but not in the 2nd.
GOHDA ACCOMPLICES?

in erikantrice in evey game,reality and bern's game the culprit are the same
george and kanon with the same accomplices
genji, nanjo and kumasawa
but their motive is love!!!
kanon: his love was killed by battler's betrayal and she wants revenge
george: for him the only way to realize his love with shannon is kills his parents and get the 2 billion yen card.
genji: kanon was like the son he never had, he saved kanon's life, he protecting him from kinzo, for genji the only important thing was kanon's happiness and he would do everything for him.
kumasawa and nanjo: for money but this money was used to save the families they love.
All of them are motivated by love

>>22436003
I think so too. You have to remember that since Battler took part in writing 3-8, his motivations are in play. Battler makes his motivations very clear throughout the story: He doesn't want to believe that anyone could be a killer. Because of this, he focuses on their positive traits in the face of the evil witch. This all culminates in EP8, where he explicitly says that this is a party where everyone can rest in peace, where he's remembering purely their good sides, and that Ange would be better off accepting this than ruining her positive memories of her family for no real gain.

To take this further, it means that Battler purposely can't give any information that confirms or denies anyone as being the culprit. If he gives away confirmation, then that destroys their memory. But if he gives a specific denial, it also becomes a process of trial and error. His solution is to not focus on who the culprit is at all, withholding all information in order to make knowing impossible.

>>22436058
ep 1-2:written by beatrice before the killing
ep 3-4-5:written by ikuko for made battler remember(after the tragedy)
ep 6: written by battler
ep 7-8:ange tried to discover the truh about the tragedy

>>22436088
We can't know their motivations because we weren't there. Ultimately, even if you come up with an overarching theory like Rosatrice, it's meaningless, because that isn't the way the story was written. Battler would never sell out his family. Thus, any clues to a killer after EP2 can be disregarded.

>Ducan is French
>Italian erikantrice poster
>KnownNoMore was from Germany

How can this fanbase resist against the ABNCHADS menace?

>>22436109
NOTHING
ABN will conquest the world!!!!
(we have the best girl)

>>22436104
se yasu=ikuko was here yes.
she was the mastermind.
she give the golden brooch to george
she send the money to nanjo and kumasawa family.

and my thoery isnt rosatrice
my theory didnt violate no red truth
ERIKANTRICE IS PERFECT
(and not gay)

>>22436132
What are you even talking about? You didn't address a single point I made except mentioning Rosatrice. I'm comparing your theory to Rosatrice because it also attempts to explain every story as being committed by the same person for the same reason every time. By explaining the reason why Rosatrice doesn't make sense, I'm also explaining why your theory doesn't make sense: Any explanation where the killer is confirmed, using all stories as evidence, is inaccurate, because many of the stories were written with the intent to obscure the killer(s) other than Yasu.

>>22436088
>yes my motivation is love
>an abused boy that find someone who love him
>and for her he will do anything.
I literally debunked that in the post you replied to my man, wanna try again?

>>22436140
yasu made different plans to commit the murder.
but in every different plan she must use the same culprits and acomplices.

>>22436158
Yes, and that's identical to Rosatrice, as I just explained...

>>22436148
nope
>also he is never shown to really hate his mother and he was literally working on being independent aka "making his own castle"
and how can he do thid?
with 2 billion yen provided by kanon
> his mother said and his father was easily going to support him on that
but not in his marriage with shannon
eva will never accept this

>>22436161
why not?
yasu said that all the games are just the different version of the murder she was planned.
she try the different possibility but in all the times didnt change the culprit.

why rosa,eva,hideyoshi,gohda had a motive for killing everyone?
money?
fuck off LOVE IS THE ONLY MOTIVE!!!!! LOVE
and in my theory every culprit and accomplices as motive have LOVE
and
rosatrice didnt explaine chiru
my theory yes erika=kanon

>>22436162
>and how can he do thid?
>with 2 billion yen provided by kanon
Or with the generous amount of money his family already has. It's not 2 billion yen, but it's enough to start his own company. Starting your own business and working to grow it sounds a lot more like "making your own castle" than getting 2 billion yen in gold and never working again.

>>22436162
she doesn't have to accept it, that's the whole fucking point
also he was getting training and showed promise at least on that front, it was literally never shown he needed money for it, he got that fucking ring
also yeah nothing speaks more about "making your own castle" than getting a shitload of money from a random tranny lmao

>>22436172
if he married shannon eva would not give him any money.
so george would have no money to support his family with Shannon and his future business empire
he really need the golden brooch to marry shannon

>>22436170
But I already explained above why it makes sense for Yasu to write every Ushiromiya as willing to kill for money: She dislikes them and views them as money-hungry devils. It isn't accurate to reality.

Something I want you to realize is that both Yasu's stories and Battler's stories are ignorant of the truth. Yasu doesn't understand the Ushiromiyas enough to write a motive for murder besides being paid, because she thinks all they care about is money. Battler is willfully ignorant of any of the character flaws his family has that would lead them to kill because he wants to believe that none of them are killers. Because of this, you can't use the stories either of them has written as evidence for what actually happened. And this is also why it doesn't make any sense to find an overarching killer besides Yasu: These stories were written by different people for different reasons, with the only thing in common being misrepresentation of the Ushiromiyas, whether positive or negative.

>>22436175
>shitload of money from a random tranny lmao
in my thoery kanon is a cute tomboy
>she doesn't have to accept it, that's the whole fucking point
yes shannon didnt accept
in reality and in all the games george, after Shannon's refusal , kill himself.

>>22436189
And to make a last addition to this, I find it extremely unlikely that EP1/2 could point to George as a culprit because him, Battler, Maria, and Jessica are practically saintly compared to the rest of the family. This is because these are the few that Yasu was actually able to befriend.

>>22436196
I was talking about eva you stupid fuck
george was actually competent enough as a business man and even said he needed time to build his own castle before he could propose to her (which he did using a very expensive ring)
there was no need/urgent need for money and I'm pretty sure his father would help him as he always did even if he married shannon

>>22436196
>in all the games george, after Shannon's refusal , kill himself
What a perfect example of a non-beta indeed.

>>22436189
>She dislikes them and views them as money-hungry devils
>first game
for natsuhi the only important thing is protect the honor of ushiromiya family and jessica
>second game
rosa protect maria by fight with thousents of demons
>third game
eva's despair when she lost her husband and her son
>fourth game
kyrie's repentance towards battler when he discovers that it is his son

image someone who belive that they are money-hungry devils wrote this.

>>22436233
Note that Natsuhi isn't an accomplice.
Note that Rosa is an accomplice but never kills Maria.
Note that EP3/4 weren't written by Yasu.
You're only proving my point. The accomplices are always inline with the way Yasu perceived them. Rose is the only exception because Yasu knew that Rosa was a bitch but that despite all that she loved Maria.

>>22436222
maybe hideyoshi know about it
remember the garden shed in the 1st game
when george asked about the ring eva was shocked but hideyoshi defend him.
or just more simple
2 billion yen!!!!!
kanon buy it for george

Can't the erikanontrice be debunked simply by proving that Erika's boobs are way larger than Kanon's? If so, it was already destroyed in a previous thread.

>>22436270
yeah it's either this extremely convoluted theory or, literally what george has been saying out loud since the beginning
lmao

>>22436265
> EP3/4 weren't written by Yasu.
for me yes by ikuko
you cant really belive that 3 and 4 wasnt written by yasu.
> Rose is the only exception because Yasu knew that Rosa was a bitch but that despite all that she loved Maria.
she tried to save even battler and george

>he accomplices are always inline with the way Yasu perceived them.
first game eva and hideyoshi cute moment in the bedroom.
but for her are money-hungry devils

>>22436277
Retards shouldn't avatarfag as Bern so please stop.

>>22436279
kanon knew that it was impossible that shannon would accept but if the marriage proposal could increase the possibilities even slightly, why not try

>>22436298
Just because they're money-hungry doesn't mean they hate each other. Think about the context of this scene if they were paid.

>>22436310
what are you even talking about man holy shit
shannon was already high thinking she was human and shit and was pretty much ready to accept his proposal
kannon was the one that hated it and felt it was wrong

>>22436320
>money-hungry
what you are saying is denying love
you're doing the same thing that made bernkastle at the end of the 7th game.
you don't have love for this you can't see the truth.

>>22436335
this because shannon didn't know what george would do to her.
kanon knew the truth but yasu had already decided to commit the murder.

>>22436354
nah shannon knew exactly was going to happen that's why she smashed the mirror and she even accepted the ring in the first game
I don't even know what's going on in that second sentence

>>22436369
>she smashed the mirror
this scene is meta
represents shannon who renounces her morals and agrees to use the 2 billion yen card to be able to be able go out with george.

>>22436378
the 2 billion yen card is literally never implied anywhere my italian friend
what's actually shown when it happens is she's accepting the witch's proposal and becomes human aka able to be loved/get married

>>22436399
the golden brooch=2 billion yen card
>never implied
What make every dream real?
MONEY maybe the card was never implied but the kinzo gold yes.
>when it happens is she's accepting the witch's proposal and becomes human aka able to be loved/get married
the first part of 2nd game

>>22436420
yes the money exists but kannon showing any kind of support for shannon's love is never shown anywhere except maybe being against yasu killing everyone lmao
george needing any kind of money is and being inclined to accept this nonexistent proposal from kannon, as I've already said, never shown anywhere too
are you going to substantiate what you said or are you going to try and run circles around what you claim

>>22436450
>george needing any kind of money is and being inclined to accept this nonexistent proposal from kannon, as I've already said, never shown anywhere too
umineko is a mystery
in a mystery they cant show to you the murdering making before the end.
you must understand the agreement between george and kanon because only these 2 can be the culprits.

>are you going to substantiate what you said or are you going to try and run circles around what you claim

ok now i attack:
genji killed nanjo and kumasawa but a servants cant be the culprits
kyrie shot and kill hideyoshi
but as we saw in the 7th game rudolf rifle is broken cant kill everyone.

>Kanon is dead. Among the five people in Kyrie's group, he was the first to die. In short, he was the 9th victim.
red true
person mean body so nanjo,krauss,kyrie,shkanon miss one body!!!!
explaine this

>>22436483
>you must understand the agreement between george and kanon because only these 2 can be the culprits.
circular reasoning, not an argument
not even gonna bother replying to the rest of your post because that's not what I had a problem with originally

>>22432145
>some plot points were really out of this planet
I see what you did there
if you know R07's tricks you'd know something's very fishy with "Mion" in Watanagashi, but other that that yeah, the truth is far, far out there

>>22436490
>circular reasoning, not an argument
not even gonna bother replying to the rest of your post because that's not what I had a problem with originally

UMINEKO IS A MYSTERY
all that concerns the solution is to be derived from history.
george and kanon guilty + eva adversity to marriage with shannon + 2 billion yen = the art of deal

P.S=respond to my attack!!!

>>22436483
>servants cant be the culprits
Servants can be the culprit. If you were going to try to use Van Dine rules, they never applied to Umineko.
Not only was it never stated in red for Umineko's gameboard, but some of them directly contradict basics of Umineko.
Like, one of the rule is literally that there cannot be love in the story, when Umineko's main theme is about love.

>>22436305
but bern is a retard

>>22436505
Will killed manyy goats with van dyne in 8th game
and beatrice in the 2nd game spoke about knox and van dyne
cmon anon!!!

>>22436503
>still not going to properly substantiate george giving a shit about what his mother thinks or his need for money
I accept your concession
as I've already said I'm not here to talk about the murders

>>22436517
so of what you are speaking about?
we need to solve the mystery the other parts need only an interpretation,
if your theory cant explaine the mystery is false.

Someone need to update this with Ciconia

>>22436528
nah, to be an actual story both have to be on point, if george just goes random and kills everyone because of nothing it's not a mystery

>>22436541
i explaine george motives 100 times.

kill all his obstacles to marriage with shannon:
his mother eva who would never have allowed it
and battler that he believed could steal shannon from him.

>>22436516
Good luck interpreting Umineko with all VD's rules
>No wilful tricks or deceptions may be played on the reader other than those played legitimately by the criminal on the detective himself.
>There must be no love interest in the story. To introduce amour is to clutter up a purely intellectual experience with irrelevant sentiment. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar.
>

The problem of the crime must be solved by strictly naturalistic means. Such methods for learning the truth as slate-writing, ouija-boards, mind-reading, spiritualistic sÈances, crystal-gazing, and the like, are taboo. A reader has a chance when matching his wits with a rationalistic detective, but if he must compete with the world of spirits and go chasing about the fourth dimension of metaphysics, he is defeated ab initio.
>

There must be but one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed. The culprit may, of course, have a minor helper or co-plotter; but the entire onus must rest on one pair of shoulders: the entire indignation of the reader must be permitted to concentrate on a single black nature.
>A detective novel should contain no long descriptive passages, no literary dallying with side-issues, no subtly worked-out character analyses, no "atmospheric" preoccupations. Such matters have no vital place in a record of crime and deduction. They hold up the action, and introduce issues irrelevant to the main purpose, which is to state a problem, analyze it, and bring it to a successful conclusion. <cut the rest since it's bare long>
>A detective novel should contain no long descriptive passages, no literary dallying with side-issues, no subtly worked-out character analyses, no "atmospheric" preoccupations. Such matters have no vital place in a record of crime and deduction. They hold up the action, and introduce issues irrelevant to the main purpose, which is to state a problem, analyze it, and bring it to a successful conclusion.
>And (to give my Credo an even score of items) I herewith list a few of the devices which no self-respecting detective-story writer will now avail himself of. They have been employed too often, and are familiar to all true lovers of literary crime. To use them is a confession of the author's ineptitude and lack of originality. a. Determining the identity of the culprit by comparing the butt of a cigarette left at the scene of the crime with the brand smoked by a suspect. (...) d. The dummy-figure alibi. (...) h. The commission of the murder in a locked room after the police have actually broken in. (...) j. The cipher, or code letter, which is eventually unravelled by the sleuth.

>>22436551
and I've already told you he's explicitely shown in the story to not give a fuck about what his mother says and was pretty much on the way to proposing to shannon already
you've shown nothing to prove otherwise

>>22436516
Even then, they were never actually stated in red (except one, but it was in a different gameboard never proved to have importance in Umineko).
The fact that they clearly contradict Umineko's main theme is enough to prove that they never mattered.

>>22436557
Also this.

>>22436557
>There must be no love interest in the story. To introduce amour is to clutter up a purely intellectual experience with irrelevant sentiment. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar.
the love story was in the meta-part not in the mystery games

>No wilful tricks or deceptions may be played on the reader other than those played legitimately by the criminal on the detective himself.
bern was the detective during the 5th game.

>the problem of the crime must be solved by strictly naturalistic means. Such methods for learning the truth as slate-writing, ouija-boards, mind-reading, spiritualistic sÈances, crystal-gazing, and the like, are taboo. A reader has a chance when matching his wits with a rationalistic detective, but if he must compete with the world of spirits and go chasing about the fourth dimension of metaphysics, he is defeated ab initio.
erikantrice can explaine everything without meta

>There must be but one culprit, no matter how many murders are committed. The culprit may, of course, have a minor helper or co-plotter; but the entire onus must rest on one pair of shoulders: the entire indignation of the reader must be permitted to concentrate on a single black nature.
here van dyne mean the mastermind
george always die in every games

>A detective novel should contain no long descriptive passages, no literary dallying with side-issues, no subtly worked-out character analyses, no "atmospheric" preoccupations. Such matters have no vital place in a record of crime and deduction. They hold up the action, and introduce issues irrelevant to the main purpose, which is to state a problem, analyze it, and bring it to a successful conclusion. <cut the rest since it's bare long>
the game board dont have any of this

> >And (to give my Credo an even score of items) I herewith list a few of the devices which no self-respecting detective-story writer will now avail himself of. They have been employed too often, and are familiar to all true lovers of literary crime. To use them is a confession of the author's ineptitude and lack of originality. a. Determining the identity of the culprit by comparing the butt of a cigarette left at the scene of the crime with the brand smoked by a suspect. (...) d. The dummy-figure alibi. (...) h. The commission of the murder in a locked room after the police have actually broken in. (...) j. The cipher, or code letter, which is eventually unravelled by the sleuth.
nothing of this is presented in my theory

>>22436587
what an answer. LMFAO
just give up already dude, it's okay

>>22436571
love
the writer and the reader must love each other
the mystery must be solvable
this is why knox and van dyne are valid in umineko.

>>22436587
>the love story was in the meta-part not in the mystery games
F A M
You literally said in your last post the opposite: that George's motive was his love for Shannon

>bern was the detective during the 5th game.
sure and before that there were no scenes shown to the reader that the detective (Battler) didn't see, no sir

>erikantrice can explaine everything without meta
so long as you use a SINGLE red truth you're using meta, if you're not you fall into "no guesswork" rule though - a catch 22

>the game board dont have any of this
are you taking the piss

>nothing of this is presented in my theory
well then it directly goes against ep3 and how they found out what happened in the mansion

>>22436597
never
every van dyne truths is valid in erikantrice
if your theory cant do it
this mean your theory is wrong.

>>22436606
Man I wish I had the free time you two seem to have.

>>22436587
>the love story was in the meta-part not in the mystery games
There are so many examples of love in the gameboard that it'd be hard to count them.

>bern was the detective during the 5th game.
Erika was. It was even stated in red.

>erikantrice can explaine everything without meta
Still waiting for proof.

>here van dyne mean the mastermind george always die in every games
He meant for the one that kill directly with his hands.

>the game board dont have any of this
Have you even read Umineko? There's plenty of this. The long description of the rose garden in EP1 is one for example.

>nothing of this is presented in my theory

A., h. and j. all happened explicitly, Again, have you even read Umineko once?

>>22436603
>>22436609
Stop dodging the subject. Van Dine rules never applied, and you're less than a goat for still doubting it.

>>22436606
>F A M
>You literally said in your last post the opposite: that George's motive was his love for Shannon
this is the motive and does not appear in the
story(you understan this during the end of the crime).

>sure and before that there were no scenes shown to the reader that the detective (Battler) didn't see, no sir
in the first 4th games Battler never saw lies and never trick the reader(at least he was tricked)

>so long as you use a SINGLE red truth you're using meta
red truth are provided by the writer
is like someone write on the book hints about the murders

>well then it directly goes against ep3 and how they found out what happened in the mansion

kyrie a victim was baited not the detective battler.

>>22436615
i go to uni and i pass all the exam meawhile i read umineko 2 times

>>22436623
>Erika was. It was even stated in red.
so why bernkastle used detective authority and not bern.
berkastle is the detective of the reader erika is just another detective or the real furude erika was the girl who die in the sea,

>Still waiting for proof.
read my manifesto

>Have you even read Umineko? There's plenty of this. The long description of the rose garden in EP1 is one for example.
rose garde is important for the beatrice story

>A., h. and j. all happened explicitly, Again, have you even read Umineko once?
in shkanontrice yes not in my theory

>>22436631
beatrice said this
WIll resolve umineko with them
a true mystery must have that or didnt have love.

>>22436636
>this is the motive and does not appear in the
story(you understan this during the end of the crime).
This rule also apply to love outside of the crime motive. And there was plenty.

>in the first 4th games Battler never saw lies and never trick the reader(at least he was tricked)
Battler was literally drunk in EP4.

>red truth are provided by the writer
is like someone write on the book hints about the murders
Even though non-Beatrice witches can still use them? Sure sure.

>kyrie a victim was baited not the detective battler.
Proof or hint of that? If you don't have any, your theory is invalid because of Knox's 8th.

>>22436642
>so why bernkastle used detective authority and not bern. berkastle is the detective of the reader erika is just another detective or the real furude erika was the girl who die in the sea,

Literally what does this mean? Also, Bernkastel granted detective authority, recognized by the witch party, to Erika, therefore Erika is the detective.

>rose garde is important for the beatrice story
Still a long description.

>in shkanontrice yes not in my theory
They literally happened in the gameboard.

>>22436651
Still no red. Invalid.

>>22436657
>Battler was literally drunk in EP4.
like all detective
sherlock holmes take drugs

>is like someone write on the book hints about the murders
Even though non-Beatrice witches can still use them? Sure sure.

beatrice=the writer
>Even though non-Beatrice witches can still use them?
lambda knew the true
in the game 5 we saw that red truth said by someone who isnt the gamemaster without proof are invalid.

>Proof or hint of that? If you don't have any, your theory is invalid because of Knox's 8th.
like we saw in the discussion between eva-beatrice and battler kyrie find a cigarette in eva-room this is why she go in the mansion
battler never go in the mansion for a cigarette,

>This rule also apply to love outside of the crime motive. And there was plenty.
nope apply only to the detective during the invetigation.

>>22436673
>Still a long description
not long for female standard

>They literally happened in the gameboard.
list all of that

>Literally what does this mean? Also, Bernkastel granted detective authority, recognized by the witch party, to Erika, therefore Erika is the detective.

Erika literrally didnt inspect no bodies and hideyoshi closed room
she wanted to accuse natsuhi of the murders
in the 5th game she was an accomplice
bernkastle was the one who try to solve the murders so she is the real detective.
or maybe the corpse of in the sea of the real furude erika is the detective.

>>22436339
You need to work on your reading comprehension. I never said that the characters are actually money-hungry. I said that it's Yasu's perception of them that caused her to write them that way in her stories.
>>22435992

>>22436907
i understand what you said.
yasu wrote olny ep 1-2
eva,hideyoshi and rosa are the culprits for money.
if yasu planned the muders and choice the accomplices she could know all the motives.
its useless continue to this so i will take a different approch.

you said that yasu didnt wrote ep 3 and 4.

but in the game 3 there was written the bank code that only yasu knew?
how do you explaine this?
with yasu=ikuko is simple

>>22436950
We had this exact conversation before. We've talked before. My explanation was that Battler remembered.

>>22437219
Wait
You are good anon.
Ok cmon anon non-sense
Cmom at least chapter 3 and 5 must be written by yasu.
Until chapter 4 the game master=the writer was beatrice

>>22437280
I'm still not sure about the Yasu=Ikuko theory. I'll have to reread sometime to confirm. But so you know, a lot of the posts today about the true events of Rokkenjima being a mystery, and the intentions of the writer Yasu/Battler, were by me.

Is there any fanart of Erika with her hair down?

>>22437406
well yasu=ikuko is a choice like trick and magic ending.

ikuko isnt yasu so you belive in a powerfull witch that knew everything and other meta part.
ikuko=yasu you belive that all umineko is just the magic version of a woman that try to made his love remember her.

this is my opinion and this is why yasu/ikuko must had written the games from 1-5 or the lost of memory doesent have sense.

>>22436539
Here you go anon. Now there is Ciconia.

>>22437440
That's an interesting way to think about it. I don't like explanations that involve magic being real. Unfortunately, I don't remember much about Ikuko because most of my time spent rereading the series always focused on 1-4.

>>22437469
> I don't remember much about Ikuko because most of my time spent rereading the series always focused on 1-4.
try to reread chiru
chapters 1-4 are the mystery of the story
but only with chiru you can understand all.
doesent matter if you belive in erikantrice or shkanontrice you will saw that yasu=ikuko is just perfect and explaine everything.

>>22437485
Yeah, I've seen some of the arguments made, and at the least they warrant a reread. But for situations that involve Ikuko remembering certain things about Rokkenjima, I'm still saying for now that they can be explained via public knowledge and Battler's collaboration.

>>22437506
>>22437485
And I also want to ask what you thought about >>22435868
I asked earlier.

>>22435868
even i think is a really bad idea.
in this case battler lost his memory but by reading ikuko stories and discussing them with her he fallen in love with her again(like battler with beatrice in the meta-world)..
buti dont like this
i cant belive that yasu coud fallen in love with a man that wasnt battler(personality different from body).

>>22437562
So you wouldn't say Ikuko is treated as a different persona like Kanon? That Ikuko is considered the same as Yasu but Tohya isnt the same as Battler, so it would be like being unfaithful?

>>22437591
idk if ikuko is a different personality or not.
probably is the writer personality of yasu
but fallen in love?
yasu tried to commit suicide
her guilty feeling is too much for be happy again.

>>22437446
why is there no erika
the character choice is very strange

>>22437641
Because Erika isn't in Ciconia.

>>22437431
How about this sketch by Kei Natsumi herself?

>>22435720
KNM's Rosatrice has George as a murdering accomplice afaik. Rosa betrayed George and he took revenge on her and Maria. Later Eva would kill George in self defense.

>>22439187
Rosa die in the garden.(red truth)
Who killed krauss,natsuhi,george,kyrie,rudolf,hideyoshi,nanjo?
George cant kill rosa in the garden
Battler looked him all the time.

>>22437446
Good job anon.

b-b-but le eva is mean to george

so this... is the power of george's desperation

>>22439370
No it seems Battler didn't appeared in the chapter "A new witch" at all after Rosa and Maria went outside.
While the 3 went to the mansion, there wasn't a real backup alibi by Battler for the people in the guesthouse.

>>22439723
>>22439730
A kick on the head make people accept everything,a silent corpse cant oppose to the marriage.
Based George true kinzo heir

>>22437431

>>22439740
yeah, I'm sure killing everyone is what he's talking about here
kek

>>22439732
george,jessica and battler were in the cousin room all the tim during rosa murder, all of them confirmed.
battler is the detective cant saw or spoke lies.
and even if george could murder rosa
he cant murder kyrie,rudolf and his father for the same reason
he was all the time in the cousin room with battler.

>>22437431

>>22432145
Glad you didn't off yourself, anon. Don't worry about the cake, I decided to make a chocolate almond torte. I'll be using something akin to pic related (it doesn't look edible, but it is!) to draw the sign.

>>22440700
I can understand the original not including the Slav Rena outfit, but you'd think the ports would add them since they already add others

I found an artist who creates jewellery with an anime/manga/VN theme. She made Umineko jewellery, and they are so beautiful...
Too bad, everything is out of stock.
https://shiete.booth.pm/items/1591371
They are more on her Twitter.

>>22441400
Like this. These one are base on LambdaDelta and Bernkastel.

>>22440700
>Rena is the only character with a cg in vanilla WTC
What did Ryukishi mean by this?

>>22441400
are you a woman

>barely any Ciconia talk in these threads
>instead this autistic italian is still going 3 months later

>>22441609
This say a lot about ciconia

>>22441760
more like it says a lot about the first chapter
not a whole lot going on

>>22441609
>>22441783
Nah, people just don't seem to want to talk about it. I've asked at least 3 times on here why people think everything is VR and haven't received a reply. I get there are limited things to talk about without blind speculation, but there are also legitimate topics.

>>22441609
Ciconia is a failure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EngX9QWgPw

>>22441799
isn't the vr thing strictly because of miyao's factory flashback?
also we had a lot of discussion early on but like I said it's still the first chapter, in the end the topics would dry up

>>22441799

I mean, I'd love to discuss Ciconia, but everybody's stopped posting theories. We had ~2500 good theoryposts a few weeks after Ciconia was released and then the discussion just sort of died and this thread went back to the same Umineko/Higurashi discussion we've been repeating for the last 10 years. It's frustrating, frankly.

To answer your question about the VR theory:
1. At multiple points in the VN, the narration emphasizes how much better reality is than VR. Knowing Ryukishi's tricks, this sounds like foreshadowing for VR being far better than everybody assumes.
2. If there is a looping mechanism, VR would be a natural explanation for it that doesn't require physics-breaking stuff like time travel.
3. Most of the sci-fi in Ciconia is fairly hard. The 8MS system is mostly based on real futurist projections, Selcom-type neural implants are definitely in the works etc. The Gauntlets and Spiritium are the only elements in the setting that are clearly magitech. Some take this as evidence for these elements being "fantasy", i.e. only part of a VR simulation.
4. It's a natural explanation for how e.g. Blue!Miyao can make prophecies about the future. If the meat factory actually occured in the past, there's no problem with Blue!Miyao's prediction being certain.

>>22442236
The problem I have with everything being VR is how it relates to both the 3 kings and the laboratory, and what the purpose is for the story. It also becomes confusing because if we compare Ciconia to Haworthia, which seems to be its predecessor, there doesn't seem to be any reason for a time loop or VR to exist. It becomes challenging to think about things like this because, although R07 says he expects the reader to keep thinking and not give up, a lot of the mysteries seem to be totally impossible to solve with certainty at the moment. For example, if we think about who the traitors are, you can quickly become stonewalled when you realize that multiple personalities can be used to make absolutely anyone a secret traitor without any evidence necessary, since they can do everything from inside their brain and don't have to tell anything to their other personalities.

As for your actual points, I don't have any reference experience for how 1's implication would work. 2's time travel fails to account for the door in the lab that seems designed for time travel. For 4, I don't believe that blue Miyao was accurate because Koshka seems to die from being shot by soldiers instead of being killed by Miyao, but that could just be because R07 forgot to finish the plot. Again, his fault for not providing accurate info if that's what he intended. For now, I'm assuming this is evidence that blue Miyao is wrong. The accusations of Miyao being a killing program all also seem to be based on nothing, and aren't resolved since Miyao only kills one person when Toujirou physically makes his gauntlet do it, without Miyao having any input.

>>22442758

In my opinion, you just have to trust that Ryukishi has made a "fair" mystery with enough clues presented to solve it. A twist that isn't foreshadowed in any way wouldn't be fair, therefore Ryukishi (probably) wouldn't write one. I think we can safely assume that alters whose existence hasn't been implied aren't traitors.

Although I still think Rethabile killed Cyril. She was the only one who knew Cyril's location and that whole scene "felt" wrong in some way I can't quite pin down. Almost as if we were following the wrong personality's view of the events. The whole head explosion would be consistent with Rethabile shooting Cyril at point blank range, and then erasing the evidence by summoning a missile from her Dimensional Container.

As for time travel, only travel back in time contradicts physics. The door in the laboratory only takes you forwards. That could be implemented with, say, a very strong gravity field, or a cryogenic sleep chamber, so it's not a problem.

>>22442236
The VR theory is generally inconsequential until we are given more evidence.

>>22441609
>>22441799
The issue is that the amount of information we can collectively learn and prepare for via theorycrafting exponentially plateaus away from the game's release. It being only the first chapter of several hurts in two ways: first, by us just being aware that more content will be released later that will answer many of our questions definitively, and second by it being relatively easy to catalog all the information about the story.

We still have relevant discussion about Umineko even now because the story is just so fucking massive that no human can remember every minute detail about it and how each pertains to the greater narrative, character arcs, themes, etc. at all times. People constantly go back and reread sections and mix and match red truths to see if they can divine further meanings. Meanwhile the current entirety of Ciconia really isn't all that complicated. I feel somewhat well-informed about everything I could ever want to know about what's already been released, including the various theories that have been proposed here, and thus have little desire to discuss it beyond shitposting.

Sorry to butt in right in the middle of hot ciconia discussion for something that might be old news, but I just wanted to share with people who own a CFW 3DS that it's possible to read Higurashi on the system. However, the patching method requires you owning/pirating the steam version, meaning that you'll be "stuck" with either the mangagamer sprites or the Alchemist ones. I guess it's the price to pay to reach maximum comfyness level. The future is right here between our hands anons.
Installation guide can be found on this page :
https://gbatemp.net/threads/release-higurashi-when-they-cry-3ds-port.492390/
Sadly, the guy isn't planning to do the same for Umineko. Maybe he's changed his mind since January 2018
>>22434737
I've started reading your manifesto. You really should do something about your spelling though, but so far I have to say that I'm sorry for putting you aside all this time. Your way of operating heavily reminds me of Rosatrice, especially with your goal being to prove that the murders were committed by the same perps in all games and having George as a main component of the theory. Poor virgin can't catch a break lmao. However, I stumbled upon some points I thought to be wrong or unclear, mainly due to your poor writing ability. I hope you weren't thinking of using this as an excuse to purposely falsify certain red statements kek as it would be intellectually dishonest. In any case, you can expect a sort of review from me in the near future because your dedication and love for the work are based
>>22442758
>there doesn't seem to be any reason for a time loop or VR to exist
From what I remember reading Ciconia last month, it's possible that blue Miyao is actually the protag we should be rooting for and his endgame is to stop "Miyao" from doing whatever he will consciously or unconsciously do. One thing I was curious about now thinking about Miyao is how at some point in the VN his thoughts started to view peace in a pessimist light and I keep wondering who was narrating (like maybe it was... I dunno) the scene at this point in time.
>>22442903
>Although I still think Rethabile killed Cyril.
Glad I'm not the only one who immediately saw this scene and thought how convenient it was for him to suddenly die when she got to know his location. Her and possibly Stan (if we refer to his words about Miyao's orders at the end) are the most obivious traitors from what we've been shown.

>>22444120
I appreciated Erikantriceanon's passion for a week or two before I realized he doesn't actually have any sort of intellectual interest in the mystery and is just going through all this effort because it makes him uncomfortable that Battler and Yasu are pseudo-gay. He cares more about that specific agenda than his logic and will employ any number of fallacies or dishonest tactics to justify it. I gradually lost my respect for him as I realized this over the course of a few threads where he'd blatantly ignore objective red contradictions pointed out to him and move on instead of pausing to discuss like a proper theorist would.

>>22444120
>stumbled upon some points I thought to be wrong or unclear, mainly due to your poor writing ability. I hope you weren't thinking of using this as an
Nope tell to me this point i will try to i I will explaine it better

>>22444120
>your dedication and love for the work are based
On what?

>>22444120
>Your way of operating heavily reminds me of Rosatrice
I really thanks rosatrice
Naturally i didnt belive in it but they made me discover george as culprit.
George as culprit is perfect and he have the best motive to commit a murder
George part is the reason of rosatrice success
>same culprit in every game
I explaine my reason in the manifesto
But how can a person really call eva culprits 3 times different culprits?

>any case, you can expect a sort of review from me in the near future because your dedication and love for the work are based
Really thanks anon you are doing to much!!!
I really love umineko
And only people who love it can understand that so much work cant be shitposting.

>>22444277
I really doubt anon
Yes battler isnt gay is my principal goal
But until now i didnt deny yet the possibility of yasu is a man.
>ignore objective red contradictions
As always tell me what red truths
(The red truths that deny erikantrice are like aliens.
Everyone say that they exist but no one actually saw them)

>>22444881
>Ayy lamos

Knox 2nd: "It is forbidden for supernatural agencies to be employed as a detective technique."

Knox 4th: "It is forbidden for unknown drugs or hard to understand scientific devices to be used."

Based Dlanor hates aliens. Fuck aliens. The Great Equalizer spares no Chinaman.

>>22444955
>knox 2nd:illusion to illusion
The illusion of the child is truth is for the father.

>knox 4: earth to earth: the girl of illusion lost her life for prove that.

Based aliens
VAN DYNE>>>>>>KNOX

New edits.

>>22442903
I read that too and I believe it might be the case, but that would mean that an alter whose existence has never been revealed was responsible. I think it's likely to be the case that traitors are alters because it seems R07 is going for the idea that the traitors are those who have the least love for the world, which makes sense. It's likely that alternate personalities that are locked inside someone's head and don't get the chance to live their own lives that often would tend to want to destroy the world more often than dominant personalities.

PS4/Switch port of Umineko.
https://twitter.com/entergram_info/status/1196352701103165442

>>22445383
OH DESIRE

>>22445383
Saku also voiced? New OP?

>>22445383
Does this mean we get updated sprites for Peace and Flauros? Do we get to see an Alchemist version of the ahegoa?

>>22445480
>New OP?
https://twitter.com/sasakirico/status/1196377051835453444
I think so.

>>22441799
>why people think everything is VR
I don't really believe it, but I have a meme theory about the "loops" in Ciconia being recursive loops of Miyao entering a VR world at the end of the story, and his VR self eventually does the exact same actions and ends up entering into a deeper layer of VR recreation of reality
My only basis is that it's not completely impossible and that I just read a VN where the meta character was the MC from a higher layer of the VR recursive loop, which reminds me of Miyao, plus some things could be explained that way
I really doubt it's real though, but it would be cool if it was

>>22445771
Sick. Hopefully video soon too.