/jp/ - Otaku Culture

not anymore

erikantrice manifesto:https://pastebin.com/XVrRMWqS

now i am reading banquet of the golden witch
after i finish it i will write the 4 chapter of my manifest!!!!
the waiting soon will be over!!!

https://erikce.booru.org

>>22273858
Doylist (GM) explanation: Battler, Bern and Lambda didn't completely understand piece Erika and the game whose are based around her really are messing up but still makes sense. Like it is stated, Lambda and Bern "scribble" on the game board. This includes: Intentionally stealing detective authority from Erika, banishing Erika from "worlds" instead of games, creating many good opportunities for other players. Erika is like Lion, no reason to exist but she still exists because she was "found" by Bern. Coincidence?

Watsonian (on game board) explanation: Tbh, Erikatrice really fits as a possible solution. Erika's provocations was necessary to make people "play dead". Also, she somehow knows how to make Maria lose her interest in her sick rose, Maria could tell her age and is affected by diplomatic immunity (read the TIP about that). This and that, canon is pretty plothole induced and relies on Battler-Beatrice relationship and rez..

Doylist (author) explanation: Tohya is somewhat aware that the mastermind could have more identities and Ikuko misinterprete it and got the brilliant idea to destroy a dead girl's and her family's reputation and wanted to include Erika in the story. Tohya agreed and included her in the mind of his original idea. Ikuko however released the manuscript under her own name, saying "it takes so much iq to understand this"
>doesn't understand it and has to ask Ange about the solution


this is an anon argument that no one saw because last thread die!!!
so i repost it
i didnt take any credit!!!

>>22273820

>>22274497
He'll be fine

>>22274497
delete this

>>22274497

>>22274497
>tfw maria and rosa probably died on rokkenjima never reconciling

>>22274564
Ange finding Sakutaro at Kawabata's house suggests that they made up.

>>22274635
Oh yeah not so fond memories of people like rambling believed Rosa bought it and Beatrice made up a red truth it was hand made because of ps3 background and manga.

I am currently reading Ciconia the clock thingie is almost on the red moon and... what the hell is up with this pacing? I am well accustomed with Ryukishi's style of repeating topics and returning on already discussed subjects to further add to them, but the level of circular discussion these kiddoes are having in that stupid bath is driving me nuts. I want to do a ctrl+f for "walls of peace" and "sprout of war". It has gotten progressively worse as it moved on, at least the early chapters had scenes here and there to give some chara development to the huge cast.

>>22274635
That scene by itself doesn't suggest either possibility. Sakutaro could have been mass-produced, or Rosa could have made another Sakutaro, her and Maria might have made up or they might not have, but that's only if you're willing to disregard the entirety of Maria's characterization from EP1-4, not only the scenes on Rokkenjima, but also those that take place outside the gameboard as fiction within the world of Umineko.
At that point we're not really talking about the "story" Umineko presented to us anymore, are we? We're just speculating about a hypothetical "true Rokkenjima" behind that story. Re-framing the question of what we think about characters by invalidating the vast majority of characterization and contextual information we were given for them was a pretty cheap move on the part of Ryukishi.

>>22274635
I thought the point of that scene was to show that the Sakutarou dolls were mass-produced and that Rosa gave even less shits about Maria than we thought she did

>>22274836
One anon made the observation that Ryukishi may have padded out the script because he felt bad about charging 40$ just for Phase 1, which seems plausible enough to me.

>>22274922
I think >>22274635 is part of the ""without love it can't be seen" means "whether it makes sense or not, you have to somehow find a way to re-interpret any emotionally heavy scene without much of a silver lining so that everything *did* turn out alright in the end and assign a sympathetic motivation to any character no matter how much of a monster they may be""-faction of Umineko readers.

>>22274896
>>22274922
I'm not saying that Sakutaro isn't mass-produced. I'm saying to think of the logic of how and why a Sakutaro doll is at Kawabata's house.

I believe it's there because Rosa gave Maria another one at some point, and Maria accidentally left it on the boat. I believe that's more likely than Kawabata simply having another doll at his house for some reason.

Maria's diary eventually has an end point. It's possible Rosa gave her the new doll and Maria didn't have a chance to record it.

miyao in a dress

>>22274497
She kinda deserved it tho.
Mfw Yasuda and maria will never become a successful joker in that catbox clown world of theirs. Lowkey wish edit anon was here.

>>22275081
I am here, just not as active as before.

Anon!..... You DID choose the truth ending, didn't you?

>>22275261
no i believe in magic uwu

Best way to play translated Umineko?
I want to use the ryukishi portraits

>>22275280
Honestly, Steam / Mangagamer, no reason not to.

>rereading umineko
>realize that Maria brings up the withered rose after the adults make a joke comparing a rose to Rudolf's dick
no clue if that was intentional or not, but lol

>>22273831
Lingji has been resurrected by 8MS due to her been deemed essential for survival of my heart

>>22275329
why would anyone make this

>>22273820
Is the translations for the Steam version of Umineko, Question and Answers arc, reliably translated?

>>22275355
yeah

>>22275384
>>22275355
The sprites are terrible tho. I'd take even Ryukishi's art over that pachinko garbage.

>>22275620
the pc version allows u to switch to ryukishis sprites that had their resolution doubled

>>22275627
this, you can also download the ps3 patch for ps3 sprites / voice acting

>>22275620
What's wrong with the sprites?

>>22275704

>>22275704
Boobs

>>22275081
I don't like this image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZgUXTrJop8

>>22276072
ryukishi chickened out on not having battler do this to ange when they first met

>>22274978
I thought that was supposed to be like a warehouse near Kawabata's boathouse for storing transport material or something, not a family home

>>22275704
Everyone looks hypersexualized and/or has far sharper details than they should, a lot of the time giving a "cool" look to them even when they're supposed to be pathetically whining or having a relaxing evening.

>>22276072
Does siblings x Yasu even count as incest?
I think there's at least two steps of separation so it's perfectly legal.

>>22275916
But I love tits

>>22271638
Your reasoning doesn't really work if you consider that 3 Kings aren't going to destroy the humanity complete. I.e. Koshka can still be a traitor because she wants to destroy the world that lacks love or whatever.

>>22273820

The 3 Kings are basically the Jews. This novel is written to appeal to zoomers, with all the popular symbols and lgbt representation in place, but it teaches them the ways in which the Jews manipulate public opinion and world affairs.

Excellent job Ryu! You are doing God's work.

>>22276577
3 Kings are crossdressing Yeladot Shavit confirmed?

>>22276577
This but unironically

>>22276577
dont make fun of my wives

>>/jp/thread/S19937956#p19940305

I know it's been discussed to death but what do you guys think at the end of the day about umineko episode 8? Was it good or did R07 drop the ball on it?

Personally I thought that the beginning parts with Ange and the Halloween party were really nice, but how it was being encouraged for Ange to completely ignore the bad side of her family and think of them as being a happy family that did no wrong left a bad taste in my mouth. However, I consider the magic ending to be one of the best things R07 ever wrote, so as a whole I'm really conflicted on ep 8.

>>22275081
Anon thank you very much
Image now shkanonfags belive that this best girl is a tranny

>>22274836
Honestly I think a big problem was having the TIPs at the end rather than sprinkled throughout. They had a lot of great character development which could of broken up the whole 'muh walls of peace'. Obviously the 16th would still be at the end but there is no real reason to not have the other 15 sprinkled throughout.

>>22276966
I think you're onto something big, anon

Who's the artist that did the alchemist sprites?

>>22277235
>I know it's been discussed to death but what do you guys think at the end of the day about umineko episode 8?
It's a complicated feeling for me. Umineko is very important and dear to me, I don't know how objective I can be when talking about the story.

If you ask me if it was good, it definitely was.It felt bittersweet as we are ultimately revealed that we merely knew a reflection of the family, from a skewed perspective. As Umineko went on, especially after Episode 5, the concept of an absolute truth seems to become less and less important (reaching the point where Ikuko's words are red truth even in the real world thanks to the mere fact people want to believe her), we are left with an episode that isn't dedicated to us, the players, but to Ange herself. She is the one with the memories of what her family really was and only she can really decide for herself, we the players can merely join her and see if we can open our minds to Magic or not. Episode 8 is a fierce critique for the people in Ange's world that only viewed Rokkenjima as a plaything and decided to pretend a purely fictionalized version of a family they never knew was worth speculating upon, without considering what the survivors felt. It felt to me, since Episode 4, that Ryukishi really wanted to criticize modern-day people that are so dissociated by the television and medias that ultimately cannot feel empathy anymore (although that might just be in my head).

I don't necessarily think though that Ange is asked to think that her family "did nothing wrong". It's more about how she was lead to think that only the bad parts were true and forget the actual good parts, which show that whatever narrative has become the majority's consensus is, if not false, at least partially deviated from reality. It's Battle begging Ange to let go of the past and walk towards life, a real future. As Maria said in her diary, happiness is not removing unhappiness surrounding you, it's about learning that there are pockets of "good" even in the middle of it.

If I had to criticize the episode though, is that I feel the choice is a bit too biased. Ryukishi clearly hoped and wanted people to click "Magic" at the end, and while having the option is very respectful for the player/reader, the Trick ending is so short that it feels more like Ryukishi shakingis head like a disappointed father, telling you "Welp, I suppose you came here for nothing. Have a good life".

What is your favorite episode, anon?

>>22277531
>If I had to criticize the episode though, is that I feel the choice is a bit too biased. Ryukishi clearly hoped and wanted people to click "Magic" at the end
I think everyone with this opinion would do well to reread all the "goat" parts and the interviews Ryu07 did about them.
Reading "Our confession" (Not to be confused with Confession of the Golden Witch) would be beneficial to anyone who feels that Ryu07 hates the mystery solving faction.

Beatrice plainly says that she wrote her story for the 1 person out of a 1000 that would understand its true meaning. The phrase Ryu07 repeats the most times when talking about goats is "never stop thinking".
"Without love it cannot be seen" doesn't mean "Blindly accept everything or you're a monster".
It means that the only way of truly having that love is reaching the truth, the actual, objective truth, on your own, and accepting the characters' actions DESPITE knowing everything.

There's nothing as frustrating as having to read this "Mystery solvers are evil and Ryu07 hates them, didn't you see the goats?!" spiel again and again, when those mystery solvers you hate so much are the only people that even deserve to be reading the story, according to the author's mouthpiece herself.
If you have "love" while understanding nothing and without chasing the truth, you have no love whatsoever.
You're just a fool who stopped thinking.

>>22277618
What are you talking about, anon? Where did I write "Mystery solvers are evil and Ryu07 hates them, didn't you see the goats"? I have never though anything like this, nor that Ryukishi hates the "Mystery faction", I think you misunderstood what I meant with that sentence. I was merely thinking about length of the ending and actual events in it, the Trick ending feels a bit rushed, where Magic is more in depth and (at least to me) interesting. Hell, I even wrote that in the post itself, but maybe it didn't come through?

It's kinda disheartening to open up myself and write a heartfelt post only to hear the usual "You've stopped thinking" accusatory spiel that only takes a single line in the entire post and disregards everything else. There is no need to be so angry at some immaginary enemy I seem to be embodying in your eyes, anon, because I love everything about Umineko. The Mystery and the Fantasy, that is why it's so good.

>>22277666
>What are you talking about, anon? Where did I write "Mystery solvers are evil and Ryu07 hates them, didn't you see the goats"?
I never said you did, it's just an extremely common opinion seen in seacats threads.

>>22277667
Forgive me then, it felt like I was being attacked after a misunderstanding and wanted to clear it up, since you said I had to go "reread the goat parts", which confused me. I am a bit tired of Umineko discussions being ruined by Fantasy vs Mystery arguments that completely miss the point. Have another cute Beatrice pic, anon.

>>22277288
This, seriously. Why the hell were they all at the end? Why'd he do that? They would've worked perfectly as higu tips.

I cum in Mion
I cum in Rosa
I cum in Chloe
Who am I?

>>22277695

>>22277666
It's really not all that surprising that your meaning didn't come across initially. The thing about Umineko is that it very deliberately creates the false binary of magic vs truth - and a lot of people came out of that experience either by accepting a generally accepted straightforward reading and adopting wishful thinking or rejecting it and adopting heartless reasoning instead.
Love is communication: in a conversation, if all you want to accomplish is to "get the opposition to see things your way," because in your mind you already know who they are and where the mistakes in their thinking lie, the possibility of finding a mutual understanding in truth disappears. Just like in our current political landscape, where, if you do not side with your ingroup the immediate reaction is to project the solidified image of the corresponding outgroup onto you, it's not easy to even so much as *communicate* that you favour a third position regarding Umineko's message without a bit of back-and-forth.

>>22277695
>>22277710
What's his endgame?

>>22276577
Appeal to zoomers? Why does it feel zoomer type of things in it look dumb and silly? Besides Ryu said things are put there in a neutral stance by him so people thing about it individually.

>>22277718
I admit I could've worded it better though, by saying that Ryukishi was biased of course, now I see it, it feels like I would imply one thing rather than what my heart is feeling... but I am not good at writing this kind of stuff. To me, Umineko is something that is hard to properly convey in words because it made me fell in love with it, it questioned and made me question a lot of how I viewed the world and other people's words. It's a bold story you can clearly see Ryukishi put all of himself into, knowing many people would not understand what he was trying to do.
I know many people don't like to say that Ikuko is Ryukishi himself, but I can't help but feel it's at least partially like it. Pic related is one of the saddest thing I've ever read and to me has always summed Umineko up neatly.

>>22277901
>Umineko is something that is hard to properly convey in words because it made me fell in love with it
I feel the same, but in my case I think that love made me stop thinking.
I just kept enjoying it as a story, and even when I tried rereading it to concentrate on "solving" the mystery, I ended up getting swept away by the meta, the characters, and everything else that was nothing more than "decoration" (in Beatrice's words) draped over the actual narration.
I felt hurt every time Ryukishi drove it home that his most treasured readers were those who never stopped thinking and that managed to really reach the heart of Beatrice, because I knew I was uncapable of it and that I was swayed every single time I tried not to be like that.
Especially when he explicitly pulled out the "This story is for 1 people out of 1000" thing, in which I was certain I belonged to the 999, no matter how hard I tried to be otherwise.

Too much love can smother any child, and I think getting too carried away with it can make a reader into an EP8 magic goat, just unable to think for themselves and being unable to see anything past the sparkling magic.
Or at least, that's what happened to me.

So why were all the tips at the end? Was is a conscious decision or did the programmers fuck up?

It wouldn't be weird if it was intentional, but still... The second demo showed us the first two tips, which were about selcom and virtual rooms. It's worldbuilding that makes more sense at the beginning of the story.

Why would the demo show us those two tips if they were "intended" to be unlocked after the main story? And why do they explain stuff that is already common knowledge by that point?

>>22278007
Is it really worth that much thought?

>>22277972
It's because we have to understand that we have to "negate, but understand". We don't negate for the sake of destruction... the story begs us to understand that we are not "dispelling lies", we are merely, gently, finding meaning. Of course, that understanding will inevitably lead to finding out things that hurt for Yasu, things they could not talk openly about. And yet this is what they desired, to find a "wonderful reader". This is why it hurts so much, at least for me.
I don't think too much love makes us blind. I think loving the meta validates the fantastical magical world that was created. After one understand, he can do anything they want as long as they don't start throwing the pieces around and scribbling on the board.

If the ABN is so corrupt and Naima is owned by the state, what are the chances that she got her loli pussy and asshole tortured repeatedly since she was very young by some powerful politicians, religious big shots and bankers?

I mean, in a faction without eugenics or factory babies it would be much harder to find kids with good aptitudes for using gauntlets. Maybe they select healthy orphans since age 0 as "growth targets" and intentionally traumatize them in order to make them develop DID.

It would explain why they use so many fucking drugs instead of just training them to work together like in Miyao/Meow's case. Naima and her alters are fucked up and only switch during times of high stress or forcefully through the use of special drugs that induce altered states of consciousness.

Imagine a nation whose military might is founded on traumatic loli rape and humiliation.

>>22278044
Depends on what your goal is, no? If you're interested in solving the mysteries presented by ciconia, worrying about this kind of technicality won't do you any good, but if you're interested in storytelling as an artform it's a good question to ask, and since Ryukishi is basically a metafiction-style author it makes sense that his stories attract people who have fun taking his writing apart. I really enjoy breaking down stories to try and figure out why they do or do not work on various levels (pacing, orientation vs a sense of intrigue, whether characters feel like they may have hidden layers, which characters what reader can empathize or sympathize with).

>>22278088
>If you're interested in solving the mysteries presented by ciconia
It sounds more like you're worked up by the pacing of the game not being what you were looking for, rather than anything intelligent like this.

>>22278122
goat-tier reasoning. the pacing for the second act was objectively pretty damn terrible this time around, and by objectively I mean from my point of view. noticing that and forming a theory of what exactly the problem might have been isn't necessarily unintelligent - it depends on how you go about it.

>>22278149
A simple "Yes" would've sufficed. Would've gotten the exact same point across.

>>22278176
to you, maybe

>>22278076
>6 year old Naima forced to strip naked and spread her ass cheeks for a crowd of corrupt military men and researchers
>after being raised in a culture where simply exposing your ankles is considered lewd and obscene
>some of her best friends are forced to watch just to humiliate her more
>she internally cries in shame and despair and dissociates, creating a kind of exhibitionist alter to deal with the situation
>she wakes up hours later with no memory of the most embarrassing parts and goes on with her life without breaking down from the trauma
Lewd! Fuck boring ass CPPs! Trauma induced DID is way more fun!

>>22278076
All the drugs probably fucked with her hormonal balances too, so there's a good chance she has a hairy loli pussy.

>already shitposting from pacingkeks and that humiliation fag first thing in the morning

Yep imma go back to sleep

>>22278193
I knew Naima being from Iraq had something to do with it.

A perverted ass German or Italian loli wouldn't be so easily traumatized. They have no modesty to begin with.

>>22278212
Bullshit, she's only like 11 or 12. She's bald down there and quite flat. The drugs only affect her brain.

Gannet is almost certainly 13 or so, which probably means she's got Satoko tier tits under that lolita dress and a hairy pussy normal for her age. That's super lewd, no wonder every single one of Mariana's personalities agree that they wanna tap that brown loli ass.

>>22278258
You're not considering the possiblity that Naima was factory born, thus making it possible that her genes were selected for hairy loli pussy.

>>22278240
Iraq is white!

>>22278149
imo if you're going to be interested in storytelling as an artform, literally the first thing you need to do is throw stupid preconceived notions like this out the window. Especially with regards to pacing of all things. There's written works out there where the main character takes a considerable amount of the work's volume to just get out of bed, showing off a particular mental illness.

Ciconia in particular is going out of its way to show how quiet the build up to war actually is, and how even when conflict breaks out, what's hell on earth for the people suddenly caught in the middle is far off and completely detached from so many others, especially on the story's international scale. You don't have this steady exciting build up of tension that ends in some large scale offensive like in a comic book or a movie, because Ciconia's worldview is actually grounded in the reality we live in today, and it shows even when we have a massive drone attack that kills 3.5 billion people.

>>22278193
>that party scene with Maya where she's blackmailed into stripping by her own hand
>Rethabile talking about how all humans have to shit regardless of social class
>Keropoyo searching for humiliation porn
>Chloe talking about how humans can't live without clothes
>that factory scene
>Gunhild's implied teen prostitution to get out of the slums
>Naima's entire existence
Based Ryuukishi intentionally fueling humiliation anon. I knew he browsed /jp/.

>>22278307
That's one hell of an uncharitable reading. I'm not arguing that Ryukishi should have cut the second act short to get to "the good stuff". That would completely change the mood of the third act and make the emotional pay-off of the final scene less powerful. But, as you may have noticed, Ryukishi has a ridiculously large cast of characters this time around, and those characters spend a lot of their freetime together. There's all kinds of subplots that you could introduce to make those characters come to life while the A-story (battle festival, mounting political tensions, Miyao forming his chivalric order) builds toward a collision that derails those subplots. That's how Ryukishi handled Higurashi, and I think it worked pretty well - at least a lot better than the excessive focus on the meetings of the chivalric order he chose to go with this time around.

So a few months ago someone in /vn/ told me Higurashi went into detail on the meta world and I should already be familiar with it before I even started Umineko.
Now I finally finished the main game and there hasn't really been anything about it other than maybe the vague secret ending about Frederica(?) starting to have fun playing with the different pieces and seeing what all sorts of different worlds would be like.

I enjoyed Higurashi a ton, I think a lot more than Umineko overall, but I guess I just expected more meta stuff. At the very least I figured there'd be some sign of Bern and Lambda at the very end or something. Before I finished this I figured I'd get to see why Bern and Lambda started existing with Rika's miracle and Miyo's strong will letting her enforce a fate, but then Miyo just becomes a complete loser and her character changes completely halfway through and the game ends with absolutely nothing.

Are these details I was promised in one of the side games?

>>22278406
There being a meta-world that encapsulated the sea of fragments wasn't something that was even established until Umineko. You were rused.

>>22277531
Hey I still have these
>March 10, 2010
bloody hell

>>22277718
I'll be frank and admit I was one of the people that were pissed at the ending, saying 'what kind of a mystery writer doesn't reveal his solution in the end?'; it took me a long time and a lot of reading to realize I was exactly what Erika was parodying in Ep5 - someone so focused on 'catching the killer', I missed the entire point of the story, and that Umineko is only mystery-shaped, but is more than just that

>>22277531
Hey I still have these
>March 10, 2010
bloody hell

>>22277718
I'll be frank and admit I was one of the people that were pissed at the ending, saying 'what kind of a mystery writer doesn't reveal his solution in the end?'; it took me a long time and a lot of reading to realize I was exactly what Erika was parodying in Ep5 - someone so focused on 'catching the killer', I missed the entire point of the story, and that Umineko is only mystery-shaped, but is more than just that

>>22278426
>>22278436

>>22278424
Oh well. Still kind of glad I was lied to since it made me finally play Higurashi though.
So I shouldn't expect to see Bern/Lambda or any other meta-dwellers in any of the other games either then I suppose

>>22278406
>someone in /vn/
Try being less stupid next time.

>>22278437
(I may have picked the wrong image fuck's sake I've got like 90)

>>22278406
>>22278448
Umineko refers to Higurashi a bit, mostly when it comes to witches, but other than that there's not much of it - in fact, it's hard for me to even treat Saikoroshi's Frederica and Umineko's Bernkastel as the same person

>>22278448
They only exist within Umineko. Hotarubi had a prologue with them sort of making fun of the fact that they were playing around with a twisted version of Hinamizawa. Aside from that you get nothing else.

>>22278076
>>22278193
Someone please disprove this! She's too cute to suffer like this!

This is gonna have a bad ending, is it? There's no fucking way these characters will live happily ever after, considering the Earth is an unhabitable corpse planet kept alive by very finnicky 8MS. Even if the story resets, what can they do to live a happy life without resorting to the factory ending?

>>22278684
the story will end with Miyao waking up in the 1000 year door in the middle of a wheat field with a small primitive village in the distance

>>22278684
Someone uses the time capsule and comes out on the other side where the earth is still there showing how the "end of the world" is all relative

Does anyone have a link to Rei / Saikoroshi by any chance?
The torrents I could find are all unseeded and the DLLs dead.
Really not sure where to look anymore, it seems to have completely disappeared from the internet

DOES SOMEONE HAVE THE ROSATRICE VIDEOS BACKUP SOMEWHERE

>>22278708
sorry bruh I only have it on disc

>>22278684
If you go with the entirety of Ciconia just playing inside a recursive VR world that will go one loop deeper when the meat factory happens and everyone's brains is plugged into VR again the actual earth might still be perfectly fine

>>22278691
I wanna repopulate the Earth with Chloe.

>>22278708
Just wait until MangaGamer releases their translation of it in 2022

>>22278710
no, but i propose a project to fully recreate the videos word-for-word to combat this vile "erikantrice" theory.

Does Gunhild count as a non-virgin even if she never actually scored and only fucked men out of necessity like a prostitute?

>>22278076
>>22278193
>>22278258
Why are you like this

>>22278710
>>22278732
nope read erikantrice manifesto!!!!
https://pastebin.com/XVrRMWqS

red true:osa and Maria died. The causes of death were as Nanjo diagnosed

a personality cant be stab!!!! so rosatrice is fake

only erikantrice explaine why ERIKA DIDNT SAW KANON IN THE CLOSET

>>22278819
I can't wait for Koshka to get a new body and become the protagonist and look even cuter than she does already

>>22278819

>>22278837
sht the fuck up

>>22278838
Still has retarded way to talk and looks low IQ.

>>22278867
t.Lilja

>>22277288
Yeah there's something weird with TIPs, the final battle flashes back to several of them but we haven't seen them yet at that point

>>22278853
true hurt you
dont warry rosatrice theory give me the reason to suspect about george
so a part of rosatrice is iinside of erikantrice!!!
be proud of it thanks to you i discover the real true about umineko!!!!

>>22278853
>erika vs kanon circa 1986 (colorized)

Am I the only one that imagined Mario as a Hideyoshi expy wearing a Dr. Mario white coat?

>>22278940
>implying

>>22278977
Why do people never have Krauss as the one on the left?
They are wearing the exact same green brooch
If anything that's the most likely expy out of all of them

>>22278853
>>22278932

>>22278867
Koshka is cute and fuck you

Why do people think the "moons" in the doomsday clock are moons? I always thought it was a dead gray Earth and a burning/destroyed Earth at the top.

>>22278940
So basically Nanjo?

shkanontrice fags pls i need your help for my manifesto!!!
how shkanontrice explaine the teleport of george,his death and nanjo death in the 3rd game?
the manga didnt say nothing!!!!

>>22279065
if it were the earth, it wouldn't be mostly grey

>>22279111
It's not a literal picture of the Earth, it's a representation of it.

>>22278940

>>22279118
No, I mean most of it would be significantly darker if it were a representation of the earth. The earth is mostly water.

>>22279065
When you end the game it literally shows a blood moon on the title screen. I think its called the harvest moon because they mention the harvest.

>>22278193
Why would a powerful, rich individual want to see the ugly human asshole of a loli?

I don't get it. Who would pay for that?

Give us tits, woman

Why can Hanyuu turn back time?
What kind of existence is she anyways?
I don't get it.

>>22279598
She can't turn back time, animefag.

>>22279603
From Rika's perspective that's exactly what she does.

>>22278977
It's Krauss, Battler, and Hideyoshi, Middle isn't fat enough to be george.

>>22279630
But Rika's perspective isn't objective? She doesn't turn back time, no matter how other characters perceive it.

>>22279630
Except Rika is perfectly aware of the broken worlds she leaves behind and that fact depresses her in the three arcs where she's the MC.

It's not turning back time even for Rika. When she starts over, her friends are basically "clones" with the same memories and capable of tapping into the memories of their other selves through dreams occasionally, but those alternate versions of them are still fucked and will never know happiness. And Rika is aware of this. There's basically an entire 15 minute stretch of Rika pondering this stuff and feeling like shit for it.

Okay campers, Rise and shine! And don't forget your booties 'cause it's cold out there today!!

>>22279714
>ywn put on a leather boot and kick Naima's booty hard

>>22278996
I've also been wondering this.

>>22279714
So is Groundhog Day a time loop or did Bill Murray have a secret Hanyuu watching him the whole time without ever introducing herself?

>>22279708
>>22279709
>Why can Hanyuu take some of Rika's memories and plant them into the Rika of a parallel world that's not as far along on the timescale as the origin world?
>What kind of existence is she anyways?
>I don't get it.

Happy?

>>22279726
The universe was punishin him for being an asshole and trapping him in a town he hated until he learned how to make the most of a day.

>>22279709
>Meakashi Mion will never know happiness
>her pathetic body will rot forever in that well
>the memories of her will be tarnished by her gruesome death and Rena will forget how sassy she waswas
>she will never fuck Keiichi and the last thought on her mind will be the terror of being dropped from that height by Shion
>for all eternity
Lewd! Humiliated! She's so smug, and yet! And yet!

>>22276140
Then that makes it even more likely that it was left behind by Maria. That sounds like a better place to keep something a passenger lost.

>>22279758
Why make it so complicated? It's obvious that Rosa got too busy with work and could't make the doll she promised for Maria, so she bought a mass produced lion doll from a random store and lied about having made it.

That's why the shop was full of Sakutaro dolls when Ange visited. In the purgatory mountain TIP, Sakutaro wakes up in the shop and there are a whole bunch of dolls that look exactly like him. And he himself is just one of them, with a perfectly brand new body that has never been out of the bag.

>>22278193
How do you come up with this stuff?

>>22278710
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLhqUzUgxc&list=PLC-1oPty3rw5EzXqCWw2O7i930evIkzMX

https://youtu.be/_QMl5FSrswM

>Dragon Knight 7, creator of the game "Cicada Season"
What the FUCK is this documentary? When did this happen?

Despite being only 20% of Higurashi's main cast, Mion wins the Keiichibowl in 50% of good-end fragments, with Rena at 30% and Rika and Chie-sensei at 10% respectively. However, in 75% of Mion-fragments, Shion impersonates her at least once and has her way with K1. In 10% of these fragments Shion ultimately convinces her sister that she is the only one who can satisfy Keiichi and to continue to be his girlfriend and later his wife without ever having sex with him.

>>22279783
Because, like I said, I'm not disputing that Sakutaro was mass-produced. I'm saying to consider why Ryukishi chose to have Ange encounter a Sakutaro doll there and what implication that has in the story. She could've found the doll in any old shop. Why did he choose to have her find the doll in a place where Kawabata would put it? Because it's meant to imply that the doll came from Maria.

>>22279829
In 0.0001% of Fragments Mion is born instead of Oryou and she helps Hitler win WW2

>>22279825
>he named K1's parents after his parents

>>22278708
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:24BA65B39409603380ACEBFF4193C939D93D2307&tr=http%3A%2F%2Fbt2.t-ru.org%2Fann%3Fmagnet

You'll have to find translation somewhere else though, because the "english patch" in the archive breaks the game.

>>22279874
How does it break the game and why?

Not that I care for the translation, I just want to make sure there is nothing wrong with the game itself since I want to preserve it in case it becomes unavailable

>>22279874
Oh, thanks a lot!
I was just about to give up and just watch the OVA instead

>>22279904
The Rei anime is kind of garbage as an adaptation, just like the rest of the anime. You might as well read a wiki summary, it will be more comprehensible and emotionally engaging.

>>22278708
>>22279874
https://mega.co.nz/#F!kJF1zKjC!0tIZjPi32uxfrB8uShbZQA
This one works

>>22279874
>>22279946
What's the difference?

>>22279881
I don't know what the problem is, but the game stops working with the "patch" from the archive. Just ignore it.
>>22279952
The one from Mega is translated and doesn't require installation.

>>22280041
But which one is the original unmodified Japanese release? If it doesn't require installation something must have been done to it.

>>22280115
>>22279874

>>22277235
>>22277531
Felt the same with the trick ending, although since it would seemingly made Ange unhappy, showing more than what we've got would have just been torture porn or something at that point.
Personally, while I like EP8, I think Ryukishi's obsession with not saying directly "Yasu is the culprit" hurts it quite a bit. Something like the manga part where Erika and Battler discuss about EP5 and 6 would have been a perfect addition for the VN too, for example.
Also, I believe Umineko peaks at EP3 and then again at EP5. EP6 is probably the lowest though. It has hype moments, yes, but the worst part is that Battler's game is interrupted: it was surprising in EP5, but the same thing two times? come one. It doesn't help EP7 isn't really about a "game" the same way EP1-6 were. Not like I dislike EP7, but, well, that and having EP8 be a spectacular magic finale... there isn't a single complete game in chiru, huh?

>>22280181
The incomplete games remind me of teaching games in Go or chess puzzles. They're not full games because they're meant to focus on showing the player a specific aspect of the game in order to study it.

The fact that Maria is human.

To be fair, it's already a miracle that 07th expansion managed to produce two iconic series with Higurashi and Umineko.
Look at SciAdv with their one way wonder of Steins;Gate. And most other companies don't even have a single good title.

>>22280239
>one way wonder of Steins;Gate
Chaos;Head > Steins;Gate

>>22274564
>probably died
There is no doubt about their death. Kyrie killed both of them and Bernkastel confirmed it with the red truth.
The only death that wasn't confirmed in red was Battler's.

>>22280243
Never bothered with this 2deep4casuals game.
>>22275323
Maria was always a little tease, just like Satoko.

>>22280239
Chaos;Head is still easily the best Sci;Adv game.
Also I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make, 07th Expansion only has R07 writing their games while Sci;Adv titles are written by dozens of people each with their unique styles

>>22280239
R07 has two main advantages:
1. He's the sole writer for the story. He writes only what he wants to write. People who enjoy his work will get a consistent experience because it's always purely from him. Even the artwork and backgrounds are done by him, giving him greater control over the experience, and adding to the unique feel of his games. Only the music isn't done by him, but its quality is outstanding.
2. R07's episodic style allows him to cater to fans more, which is an interesting paradox to point 1. He can change plot elements on the fly to make sure everyone can understand. This also means that he makes more money overall since he's selling more product due to episodic format, in addition to keeping costs down with minimal staff.

>>22279832
>where Kawabata would put it
I don't understand where you're getting this from. I didn't think it had anything to do with Kawabata on my initial read. It's just some cargo. He didn't "place" the doll there, it's just one of several in a nearby crate.

>>22277235
Bern's game was the best part of it.
>>22279829
Satoko also wins occassionally but in each of these cases Keiichi and Satoko are completely insane. I wonder if there's a world where Keiichi and Satoko talked things out on the suspense bridge and decided to leave Hinamizawa behind for good and elope.

>>22280305
>a world where Keiichi and Satoko talked things out on the suspense bridge and decided to leave Hinamizawa behind for good and elope
How? Satoko is butt-naked and has absolutely nothing to cover herself with. How could she possibly have a conversation with Keiichi? If she somehow came back to her senses, she would be mortified. And Keiichi wouldn't be able to take her seriously anyway, talking about feelings and shit while having her pathetic loli pussy exposed like that. It's impossible to take a naked human seriously, they just look silly.

>>22280303
It's been a while since I read it myself, so I can only rely on my memory. Maybe I am wrong. I had the impression that the doll was in a spot where he would've kept it for some reason.

>>22280335
>If she somehow came back to her senses, she would be mortified.
Keiichi could explain himself and explain that both he and Satoshi only wished for Satoko's happiness. Satoko would have forgiven Keiichi eventually.
>And Keiichi wouldn't be able to take her seriously anyway, talking about feelings and shit while having her pathetic loli pussy exposed like that. It's impossible to take a naked human seriously, they just look silly.
Did we play the same game? Keiichi was trying to explain himself to Satoko despite her being naked but it didn't work out.

>>22280352
why are you responding seriously to a humiliation anon shitpost?

>>22280335
Lolis don't look silly, they look beautiful. But I agree that the lewdness comes from the fact that their usual personalities don't fit with their pathetic human bodies.

>>22280590
There is nothing beautiful about the ASS of a stupid brat like Satoko. It's the place she poops from.

>>22280652
Imagine putting your hard dick into Satoko's tight butthole as she desperately tries to poop it out.

best rika

At last at least one CICONIA appeared on screen.

>>22280305
Satoko is a kid you pedo

>>22280808
not a single higurashi or umineko appeared in higu & umi

>>22280817
They were heard a lot though

>>22280810

>>22280829
IMAGINE
That uncle is a lucky guy

>>22280842
Wasn't he more of a groomer than a pedo?

I wish for all pedos in the world to instantly die

>>22280867
>Battler ded
>Keiichi dead
>Irie dead
>Akasaka dead
That wouldn't make for much of a story.

2 (two) CICONIA at once!

>>22280867
but then we wont get phase 2

>>22280853
That's what he is telling himself in Minagoroshi, but he also had Satoko prance around naked on all fours for his Mahjong buddies.

>>22280888
all in the name of guiding humanity down the right path

>>22280899
I don't remember this.

>>22280902
How can anyone not remember something they read at least once? I don't get it. I remember shit from years and years ago.

>>22280917
It's called a filter and it helped mammals survive in the wild.

>>22280917
And here you are.

>>22280899
How can Satoko come back to school and act all smug like she usually does, even though just a few hour earlier she was naked and her smelly ass was mocked by four adult men as she cried and tried to hold onto her dignity?

Cute! The fake cheeriness of a broken lolee kid! I bet her friends can't even imagine what she looked like just a few hours earlier!

Satoko somehow seems to attract bad people. (Shion, Keiichi, her uncle and Irie).

>>22280943
Keiichi is just dumb, he can't compare to pedophile abusers.

>>22280950
He's the Japanese equivalent of Sandy Hook shooter.

>>22280943
Irie fucked up with the whole lobotomy thing, but he's a total pedo and I can't hate someone like that. He deserves happiness.

Shion is a cunt, but she's hot.

>>22280963
Every character Keiichi killed violated the NAP and deserved it.

>>22280963
Making someone go blind and then going on a guilt trip for the next couple years isn't quite the same as murdering 26 people and feeling no remorse.

>>22280902
Teppai mentions it in one of the Minagoroshi Tips.
He had her serve his Mahjong buddies wearing only a collar, crawling around on the ground, and then later on in complete self-denial gets mad that she isn't grown enough for him to be sexually attracted to her yet

>>22280950
Teppei is no pedo, he just likes to abuse people. And Irie is no abuser, he just likes his lolis and checks out their butts sometimes.

Shion and Keiichi are murderers, that's fucked up. Even Teppei is human and has his buddies he plays mahjong with, it's not right to take away his life. Just beat the shit out of him and chase him out of town for being a dick.

>>22280977
What a fucking fag, Satoko is prime!

>>22280976
The girl didn't go blind, she just became a chuuni and didn't take off the eyepatch for the next 3 years because it's cool.

>>22281000

>>22280988
You can't expect a lowlife like Teppei to avoid media brainwashing and not be totally disconnected from the natural desires of a healthy man. It happens even to otherwise intelligent people because they are cucks.

Or maybe he's just lying to himself because he knows he'll get in trouble for fucking Satoko and wants to make sure he doesn't do something stupid while she's basically his slave.

>>22280977
>wearing only a collar, crawling around on the ground
Damn, what a loser! Does she have any pride? What a weak ass bitch, giving up on her dignity just because she's afraid of physical abuse. Satoko is a pathetic loser! If only everyone at school could see her true self and watch her ridiculous naked form crawling on the ground! Even Tomita and Okamura would laugh at her and stop adoring her! Dumb ass kid!

Higurashi tea parties are the highest level of meta, the characters play a fun thought game based around the idea of "what if we kill each other"
Higurashi the vn is a level of meta below
(-1meta) Rika eventually achieves sentience and becomes bern (-0.5) meta, she can travel between all the -1 meta (and below) worlds but isnt aware of meta0
umineko kakera prime is -1.5 meta, the stories in kakera prime (forgeries etc) are -2 meta, the characters in meta -1.5 travelling between the -2meta kakeras just mean reading them, playing as a detective by trying to find the culprit etc
higanbana is in parallel of -1.5 meta, umineko is just a play in this universe (an adaptation of the story; but it happens 1000y later, the disapearance of the ushiromiya family is like a myth is this period of time, and the time change explains why the old school (maria's school) is abandoned)
higanbana happens after ww3, civilisation got back a to the years 2000s in terms of technology due to the damage, in parallel of the higanbana story, a VR is set up somewhere in the world made to prevent ww4, this is meta -2 (ciconia), however the people that set up the VR arent aware that meta -2 also has umineko, so things get complicated = ciconia story, gerge nanjo & krauss are the 3 kings, featherine is seshat etc... the umineko characters are hijacking the ciconia VR

>>22281061
>implying the actors in the Higurashi all cast review sessions are not just brains in jars connected to VR in a creepy A4W factory
That's the highest level of meta.

>>22281061
Higu doesn't have Tea Parties.

>>22281086
no its a circle
brain in jar vr is a level of meta below ciconia meta and it goes back to 0

>>22281092
This, they all drink sake at Angel Mort except Rika because she's not allowed to.

It's crazy how Chie sensei is such a big player in the all cast review sessions even though she's literally nothing during the story.

>>22281109
because in this level of meta, tsukuhime also happens so she's kinda important in her own story

>>22278076
>>22278193
>>22278258
What did Naima do to deserve this humiliation? I think she's a good character that deserves love and drugs.

>>22281129
i want a scene of her getting put into a giant grinder and ryukishi spending 40 minutes describing her flesh peeling from her body

>all those steam reviews complaining that the game is too expensive because it doesn't have achievements
WHY THE FUCK do retards want achievements in a linear VN? It just takes them out of the experience and makes a pun out of everything, popping out of a corner of the screen with a lame joke before the scene even ends.

Do they like ruining stories for themselves?

>>22281129
She's a baldie and I hate her.

>>22281159
It's for bragging rights because they are addicted to social media crap. They don't actually enjoy things, they just blindly consume games in order to "socialize".

>>22281145
That would make her scream like an animal and lose her fucking mind, but it would be over pretty quick. And the intense fear would prevent her from noticing just how she's being humiliated and dehumanized.

Why not force her female friends to lick her ass? She would be mortified by the fact that they clearly hate it and become aware of the fact that her human loli ass is objectively gross and only considered cute by perverted guys. She would hate herself and experience the absolute shame of being human. Afterwards, she would be sent back to school and awkwardly spend time with her friends, even though their friendship is permanently ruined and they will remember the experience of licking her asshole every time they look at her.

>>22281166
Fuckerino offerina, she's got dark brown hair. But showing it off would be too obscene!

Does Ryukishi not know that people have anal and oral sex sometimes, or does he think that vaginal sex is the only true form of sex?

>>22281286
he doesnt believe in the clitoral orgasm either

>>22281305
Only sluts that like being degraded in bed wear chokers.

>>22281323
That's basically all women.

>>22279065
>>22279243
Also, to keep the biblical theme:
>The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. (Joel 2:31 and Acts 2:20, same wording)
>I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. (Revelation 6:12-13)
Similar passages in Isaiah 13:10, Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:25; the fig tree metaphor happens often as well

Finished Ciconia but now I wish I waited till May for something more to dig into.
I guess its better to be up to date in the long run instead of jumping on episode 3 like I did with umineko

ERIKANTRICE MANIFESTO CHAPTER 4:BANQUET OF THE GOLDEN WITCH EXIT: https://pastebin.com/XVrRMWqS

the indroduction maybe is too personal but i want put something of me in it.

as always send any opinion,advice or critique they will help me to improve my work!!!!

erikantrice booru here: https://erikce.booru.org/

>>22280181
>Ryukishi's obsession with not saying directly "Yasu is the culprit" hurts it quite a bit
This is actually one of the things that really impressed me about Umineko. Ryukishi having the balls to stick to his guns and not explain shit to the reader made me appreciate him a lot more. That's why I'm really conflicted about the manga, while it has some cool scenes, I absolutely hate how it basically reveals every single detail about umineko, even going to show what Yasu's actual appearance was like.

>>22281621
Even if I disagree with you (I won't specify why), you still thought about the game a lot more than most people have. That in itself is worth congratulating.

>>22277531
>What is your favorite episode, anon?
I'm not the anon you're replying to, but my favorite episode was probably Episode 5. I just felt it was really nice.

>>22281672
I wouldn't be too happy anon, a gay discord server has been raiding these threads with this guy's autism. The dude himself is harmless though

>>22281672
thanks anon.
if you can tell me any advise about how improve my manifestoI i would be really grateful to you.

>>22281683
i know this discord server
on discord everyone hate my thoery and shitpost about it
they want destroy my thoery

>>22281668
>Ryukishi having the balls to stick to his guns and not explain shit to the reader made me appreciate him a lot more
I mean the Confession part of the manga was literally R07 giving up and handing over the solution due to the goats' outrage, despite already being as literal as possible with EP7's manga beforehand

>>22281668
I was a little disappointed at first... But it's a clever trick really because you know that the answers to your unanswered questions do lie there in the text somewhere, so in that sense it doesn't feel cheap or frustrating because you COULD have worked it out.

That being said I would have liked a liiittle more from Willard in Ep 7, even something as simple as showing us little flashbacks when revealing the "answers" to each of the games. It wouldn't have to be quite as on the nose as in the manga necessarily but...

I don't know, it's a minor gripe because in the end the depth of the story as a whole keeps you thinking about it long after you read the final chapter anyway.

>>22281755

Umineko doesn't have a happy ending because there is no yaoi porn of Lion.

>>22281781
Based Fellow faggot
Umineko in general needs MORE porn

>>22281781
God I want to fuck Lion

>>22281781
Yasu is a woman!!!!!
So even lion and kanon

>>22281792
Don't know why but I just can't lewd anyone in Umineko except Ange
Higurashi and Ciconia are fair game, as are Higanbana for the most part and RGD, don't know what's the holdup here

>>22281825
Even young Ange?

>>22281820
I will not allow you to destroy my faggot fantasy without proof

>>22281845
the big one preferably

>>22281845
adult ange in a loli body

>>22281851
Lion never confirm that he was a man
Will start to love her but will his too chad for be gay so lion is a woman
Read erikantrice manifesto!!!

>>22281852
Fair enough. Any Ange is good Ange.
>>22281859
kino

>>22281860
It doesn't change your theory one bit, why are you so defensive over it.

>>22281865
One bit spotted
I cant belive that battler will and george are all fucking gay!!!!
Battler fallen in love with a timid girl that loves mistery novel like him.
George fallen in love with the only girls who didnt laugth to him for be fat.
Will fallen in love with a cute tsundere.

1bit goat without love the true cant be seen

>>22281879
They're gay. All of them. Including you.

>>22281889
Never kanon=erika=beatrice=ikuko=claire=lion best GIRL!!!!

>>22281879
Umineko made me gay. I love the tragic character that is Beatrice aka the little boy Sayo Yasuda. Makes me happy to think about Battler (male) living a happy cat box love life with Beatrice (male) for ever and ever (gay).

>>22281907
Read tge vn
The manga is shit change add and remove everything for made skanonshit works!!!
Everything have sense of battler isnt gay and yasu is a cute tomboy
Read the vn

>>22281860
But Lion never confirms they were a woman either (also, you used the 'he' pronoun), and them being a biological male doesn't change any facet of the story whatsoever. Hence, I choose to believe that I am able to perform fellatio on Lion Ushiromiya.

>>22281916
Lion didnt never fall and have a dick
But why he look like a woman
Every ushiromiya men are all tall and handsome (battler,rudolph,krauss)

>>22281938
The story hinges on, regardless of sex, Yasu being able to disguise themselves as either Shannon or Kanon at will. For that to work, they'd need to be convincingly pass off as the opposite sex, whatever that is.
Perhaps, in terms of genetic, he just wasn't too lucky. If we had never met Lion, we could have said that Yasu grew up to be androgynous due to the lack of testosterone from his mangled testicles, but Lion with his genitalia intact is still pretty ambiguous.

>>22281956
In my theory every yasu form have small tits in reality and medium in meta world.
Yasu was an incest monster
She was infertile and her body didnt grow.
But battler always love bigger tits this is why in meta world beatrice,erika,and ikuko have tits but in reality kanon,erika and ikuko have small tits

>>22281916
What reason is there for Lion to be male?

Isn't Lion as a character supposed to be like a perfect imagining of what Sayo could have been? I choose to interpret this as the character who created so many female altar egos finally being able to truly live as one.

How many stories did Yasu write where Battler remembers them and they live happily ever after and no one dies?

>>22282012
And that's okay. I don't particularly mind whether or not there's a 'right' or 'wrong' answer. People get so caught up trying to find something objective that they lose sight of what's important.
If you want Lion to be a girl, whatever. Then she is.
I want Lion to be a guy, so he is to me.
That's the magic of ambiguous stories like this. Without a true answer, you can do anything you want. I find that more fun than being caught up in an endless pursuit for the 'right answer'. Even if you find it, the sense of validation and superiority you'll have for finding it will only last so much time. With an ambiguous tale, the fun can last as long as your imagination is strong.

>>22282061
Imagine Battler finding a way to sneak an actual white horse into the boat, naming it something stupid, and arriving on the island on it saying something corny as "I've arrived, my princess", before breaking down laughing because that just isn't him.

>>22282063
Well said.

>>22281862
Ange paizuri

>>22281825
why do you only want to fuck ange

>>22282082
I can see why. Ange is the best girl in Umineko bar none.

>>22280239
Chaos Child was a masterpiece bro

>>22282063
link the full image

>>22282405
It should be on Gelbooru, searching for the tags "ushiromiya_lion -rating:safe" should give you only one page of images, and it'll be in there.

>>22281687
Learn English

i want to fuck piece

I want to spank Bern round cute ass!

>>22282726
cmon anon
this is too much
is like say to hitler that for win ww2 you must ally urss

>>22282082
I have AIDS and I don't want to ruin the other girls' lives.

Will Ryuu ever write something as comfy as Kanon? It's my favorite VN by far.

>>22281938
lol you didn't count Jōji and Kinzo

Jorge Gordo

Battler Blanco

Maricarmen Cagando

>>22283909
I mean the male descendants of kinzo
george is the son of hideyoshi fat incel not of an ushiromiya stallion

>>22282345
C;C was incredibly disappointing with how much it was hyped up.
It's easily one of the weakest Sci;Adv games, probably about on par with S;G0.

The story just isn't all that interesting and everything but the twist about ChaosChild Syndrome in the True End extremely predictable I felt. The character routes felt completely pointless as well, there was pretty much no new info you couldn't already be fairly certain about revealed during them, yet they spend an absolutely absurd amount of time on trivial shit that anyone with half a brain realized during Commons already like Nono's true identity, or Kazuki's powers having something to do with her speech.

Anyone else wishes Ryuukishi repeated himself more in Ciconia? I'm loving every scene so far but I wish they were longer and the characters talked in circles repeating the same shit over and over again like before.

It's sloppy writing and a bit boring to reread, but it put you in a sort of trance that was really immersive in Higurashi and Umineko. As if the characters were actual people saying pointless shit and going in circles, rather than characters in a concise story.

I like both styles, but I miss the old one because it was only really present in Higurashi and Umineko. It's been so long since I heard Ryuukishi repeat himself like that.

>>22278321
Ryukishi is humiliation anon.

>>22284118
What are you saying, you must understand we have to uphold the walls of peace and defend them from budding sprouts of war, because the sprouts of war endanger the walls of peace between the countries, and the walls of peace are a heavy burden on those that upkeep them, the young are the protagonists of this era and they must do what they can to keep the walls of peace standing and to stop the sprouts of war from uprooting them

Do you guys think Rethabile has staff to shave her pussy? She's a princess after all.

I just finished reading The Bible (King James Edition because it's probably the one R07 would have).
Can I start Ciconia now or do I need to read Umineko Saku first? I heard it has a Witch of Peace that's relevant to Ciconia?

>>22284192
>King James Edition because it's probably the one R07 would have
sure, a Japanese author that barely understands English would use an American translation, <very good>
Saku is as relevant to Ciconia as Saikoroshi-hen is relevant to Umineko

>>22284118
I think it's intentional. Higurashi was a comfy slice of life with cartoon logic that eventually devolved into a paranoia nightmare where the MC would repeatedly question himself and go over the same shit again and again trying to make sense of the situation. It's practically made for long-wided circular thinking and pointless 5 minute long conversations about random stuff between a bunch of friends.

Umineko was all about a dude and a witch arguing about mysteries while sipping tea. Of course it lends itself really well to off-topic shit, random banter between the two opponents and stuff like that.

Ciconia and RGD are more focused on the overall situation and the state of the world, so a more concise narration and to-the-point dialog fits them a lot better. It's not like the characters themselves spend much time sitting around doing nothing. And Higanbana is a bunch of ghost stories, so dragging them out with realistic, pointless, overly long banter between the characters wouldn't really fit the tone. The victim of a ghost story is supposed to be relatable to a certain degree, but not that much. In the end, they are supposed to play a specific role rather than showing us their unnecessary idle thoughts.

So I think it's intentional on Ryuukishi's part.

>>22284198
Battler never once consumed a single droplet of Beatrice's disgusting tea in Umineko.

To be honest the only thing I care about for Ciconia is that it has a solid ending for once.
Higu and Umi's solutions were both extremely unsatisfying, would have almost rather had R07 never revealed any of the answers.

>>22284202
Did he seriously eat the demon cookies without tea? That's just fucked up.

>>22284208
Prepare for your loli waifu being a brain in a jar.

>>22284034
At least common route was mostly good, both S;G cast and plot were garbage from the start til the end

>>22277235
There are two issues with EP 8. One objective, the other bizarre and subjective.

First, EP 8 is simply not as good as the other episodes. It doesn't grip as much. There are good scenes, excellent fight scenes, scenes we wanted and Ryukishi delivered, but it doesn't grip as much. It's the epilogue, written as an epilogue, with few answers or core mysteries. It's boring at times, especially in the first half.

Excellent criticism, mostly solved in the manga.

The other criticism is a bizarre one. Ryukishi wanted to leave some things to interpretation. By "interpretation", it means all the answers are mostly there, you just need to pick up the rest. It's not very hard. The only unresolved question is Yasu = Ikuko, all other things are resolved hard and easy, but need you to understand the core of Umineko.

Many people seem to be peeved by that last bit. For some reasons. They started trolling and taking themselves as goats and other stuff. It doesn't make much sense, as, admittedly, te core mystery of Umineko isn't that hard once you got the juicy tidbits (the guts, as Bern called it). It's a really coherent story that just want you to think about it and connect the dots.

I never understood the backlash against EP8, beyond the fact that it is rushed and not well written. Yeah, it's not the best Umineko episode. Yeah, it's still a decent end to the franchise.

Ok, who exactly was presented in the chat when Rethabile first mentioned the existence of her brother? That person must be a traitor and part of the Ninth Prime Chivalric Order.

Was Chloe there? Because she is apparently skilled in hacking drones and had a weird scene right before the assassination. Apparently someone else got him first, but someone hacked a drone and launched a missile at his hotel room as part of their own assassination plan.

Is Chloe the traitor? But wait, how the fuck would she get to Africa without disappearing for a few weeks? Does she have underlings?

>>22284552
the existence? probably all the leaders?
but i know that when she revealed that she was going to meet him, only miyao was there. that's one of the reasons why people suspect meow.

Keropoyo just confirmed that Evil Miyao is a program installed in Miyao's brain to confuse him. But what did he mean by "Mistress"? Is Keropoyo referring to Vier who somehow controls Miyao's selcom or is he referring to Meow who is probably the actual main personality regardless of their current outside appearances?

>>22284687
keropoyo only calls seshat "master" so maybe it's her.
but then again keropoyo is not necessarily a character. he's only an avatar for any AI interface.

>Keropoyo just confirmed that Evil Miyao is a program installed in Miyao's brain to confuse him
not necessarily. he sees evil miyao as a irregularity of some sort. and since when does vier control miyao's selcom?

Alright, I think I got it narrowed down.
Here is the spy list.
-Chloe
-Lingji
-Stan
-Ishak

Chloe has a talk about following orders, and even told Miyao that she would follow any orders he gave her. She stopped thinking. Although she values flying, it's hard to tell whether that's enough to prove her innocence.

Lingji exists merely to follow the orders of her father and the family. She also has a different gauntlet when fighting Miyao which makes her suspicious.

Stan repeatedly speaks about how people that follow orders will never be forgiven. Miyao also has a line near the end of the game that only an AI can give the excuse that they had no choice but to follow orders. Stan also mentions that he was trained to not ask questions because soldiers shouldn't question anything. However, he does have a line saying he values his life and does not want to be a martyr. It's unknown whether those are his actual beliefs.

Ishak is a genius and is very unlikely to be the spy, yet he has a line telling Rethabile that perhaps she should stop making choices and leave the decision to God. Abdou even mentions that this is choosing to do nothing; apathy is death. He is also close to Rethabile and the royal family, so he could have been the one to reveal Rethabile's brother's location.

Every other character chooses to think and values something in life. The only except is Noor, but that's merely because she has so little lines. There's also the theory that she is one of the blue crystal girls, so she might be a spy, but that's not enough to suspect her.

What do you think everyone?

>>22284888
Jestress never confirms that exactly 4 spies got it. For example, all alters could be spies.

>>22284888
It's interesting how certain characters refuse the responsibility to think and make choices. Rethabile seemed to be the most obvious to be a spy considering her lack of talent, but she nonetheless accepts responsibility. I'd like to think that Ryukishi is emphasizing that even if you're a worthless sack of shit, so long as you keep thinking and choosing, you're better than a genius that stopped thinking.

>>22284917
She said four or more were added, and nowhere did she say alters could be spies.

>>22284888
>>22284917

Why the fuck there is a need for a spy triples? I don't get it. Something I missed?

>>22284929
>she nonetheless accepts responsibility.

>>22284933
I have no clue what you're asking.

>>22284929
>and nowhere did she say alters could be spies
The opposite was never said either. And at no point does Jestress mention the number of moles.

>>22284941
I cannot suspect alters that were not revealed. Don't make me enact the Knox.

>>22284940
Misspelled I meant why is there a need for a spy in the story, which part is mentioning that, the Jesteress dialogue?

>>22284950
Characters that were not revealed? You mean like Yasu?
We know that a number of aces are CPPs in hiding, that's more than enough going by Umineko's rules.

>>22284951
Yes. There's also several mention of someone keeping tabs on the group. There are spies, and it's a bit of a mystery to guess who it is. Although I don't think anyone has even bothered to figure it out beyond my guesses. Judging from the themes, I argue that you can guess who it is based on whether they stopped thinking or haven't mentioned anything they value or love.
After a close rereading of Ciconia, nearly every character reveals something that they value.

>>22284954
This is Ciconia, not Umineko. The Knox is a rule to all mysteries, not merely Umineko. The only alter you can suspect is Meow.

>>22284951
Yes. There's also several mention of someone keeping tabs on the group. There are spies, and it's a bit of a mystery to guess who it is. Although I don't think anyone has even bothered to figure it out beyond my guesses. Judging from the themes, I argue that you can guess who it is based on whether they stopped thinking or haven't mentioned anything they value or love.
After a close rereading of Ciconia, nearly every character reveals something that they value.

>>22284960
>>22284957
Still think its a more interlinked sort of spy, people doing things they are not aware they are contributing to something biggers specially with Kizuna system its also very well know in the conspiracy world. Keropoyo also proved a lot being able to have many different side in the same context specially in the final battle since Keropoyo is AI (and manifestation of the element of chaos of egypt mythos)

Just how many levels of triple agent is Toujirou on?

>>22284975
That's boring.

>>22284977
Ocelot level.

why all the focus on the spies? what other avenues are worth examining?

>>22285007
>focus
Please, I'm the only one focusing on the spies. Everyone already stopped thinking.

>>22285007
Only other avenue worth rereading for me is that the avatars from kizuna aren't exactly what they are and some being fake etc.

There are six general avenues of discussion
-which girl you'd fuck/lewding
-what character is the spy
-what are the themes
-worldbuilding element discussion
-prediction/theorizing with Revelation (see google doc)
-bitching about the walls of peace

>>22285035
Walls of peace is just a buzzword for proxy wars.

>>22285035
I'm much more curious what pieces represent Bern/ a miracle, than any of those

>>22285011
well give yourself a congratulatory handy

>>22283924
Kinzo Calvo

Also:
>Yeladot Shavit

>>22284960
Suspecting Meow to be a spy is perfectly fine and I do suspect her.
There's one other thing to consider: the Kings are holding a vote the first time they're mentioned, 2 versus 1. Assuming the events are depicted in a chronological order, there's at least two things they could be voting on:
1. Whether they should send a mole to the Scientist guys. One of the kings later mentions that it's not gonna work, so he could be the one who voted against it.
2. Whether they should be sending spies to ace kettes. All of them are already formed by this point, so normally that wouldn't be possible, but it's still possible if spies are alters.

Is she talking about Frederica there?
Was the alternate world in Saikoroshi when Rika and Frederica separated into their own distinct individuals, ie the normal girl Rika and the meta-Witch Frederica Bernkastel?

>>22284960
R07 straight up said he doesn't really consider Ciconia a mystery you are supposed to solve the same way Higurashi and Umineko were. If even the author himself doesn't consider his work to be a mystery there's zero reason to believe Knox applies in any fashion.

>>22285106
She could be referring to Bernkastel or to the "new" Rika who just swore to not be a depressed witch anymore and live her life normally.

with the level of technology in A3W I was expecting to see more catgirls and cyborgs roaming the streets. I mean the kids are already genetically engineered test tube babies and nanomachines keep the world from falling apart. they obviously have the capability for more widespread transhumanism.

Ryuukishi said Ciconia was only a mystery in the Evangelion sense. Read the interview. You can follow the story and have fun with it, and you can also try to figure out all the conspiracy shit surrounding it. But even if you ignore the mysteries, you can still follow the story and enjoy it.

Umineko expected you to be on top of the mystery and be an active reader, that's why brainlets found the mystery discussions boring, couldn't follow the red text arguments or understand their significance, and ended up feeling like the whole thing was a mindfuck after EP5. Speedreaders had their enjoyment of the story cut in half or more.

I really like the way R07 put it.

>>22285274
are you telling me you've never eaten out of the trash?

Every single time the Three Kings popped out, all I could focus on was that blue... tubule. The fuck is it anyway?

>>22285305
Looks like one of those artificial respirator things that old people with lung problems use

>>22285305
It's a feeding tube.
After the events of Umineko Battler ended up with a nigh on destroyed digestive system so he needs to be kept alive artificially.

>>22284967
>>22285011
stop being so fucking obnoxious. you're late to the party because tons of other anons have discussed and thrown around guesses as to who the traitors are.

>I argue that you can guess who it is based on whether they stopped thinking or haven't mentioned anything they value or love.
so you're that anon. i still don't understand how this possibly makes any logical sense. you're basically just assuming that these are the rules that ryukishi uses, despite there being no evidence for that in ciconia or other wtc.

>>22285035
>worldbuilding element discussion
I think next to the traitors, this is the most productive thing to discuss. For example whether the world really is VR.
>Seshat can do impossible things, most notably alter memory
>Earthquakes aren't caused by movement of tektonic plates
>Gauntlets and 8ms are like magic
But somehow i don't think it's going to be as simple as that. Mainly because this VR setting is supposed to be the endgame, the "hell" that people are trying to avoid.
There is toujirou's line about things having ended before they begin, which might be relevant to this.

>>22285396
I suspect VR is a red herring. Why bother establishing all these scifi explanations when you could just program in magic? However, I think Ryukishi wrote in Spiritium in particular knowing full well that it was a science-fantasy trope. I wouldn't be surprised if magic was underpinning things somewhere. Gauntlets themselves are a hint; no way it's a coincidence that a certain character in WTC4 used a very similar device

>>22285396
With the information we have so far I think it's fairly reasonable to assume the "world" we see in Phase 1 is VR inside of VR inside of VR inside of VR, etc.
It's already ended countless times, when a new VR environment starts it will with absolute certainty end at the Meat Factory and begin the next one.
I think while most people are "natives" of this VR and aren't aware of it, a bunch of the more important pieces, like Seshat who seems perfectly capable of freely manipluating any and everything in it, most definitely are.

>>22285305
>King of Ihihihi
He's Battler wearing George Gordo's suit and he killed Cyril with small bombs.

>>22285467
>I think X is red herring.
I cant stop thinking red herring is also a red herring so maybe there are no red herrings and its a trick?

>>22285474

>>22285467
I think magic is involved in the sense that God and all that wisdom could be considered magic. And humanity is discovering these holy elements like spiritium and shit and using them as technology.

>>22285474
What if the meat factory is guaranteed to happen... but only after 1000 years? No fucking way all that machinery exists anywhere on Earth during Miyao's lifetime.

>not-Miyo's group is "translating" the program code of the VR server they are on

>>22285634
Soulless Mion but less soulless than Alchemist Mion.

>>22285634
Steam Mion is grotesque.

>>22285474

https://twitter.com/hi_monsterparty

Am I stupid for thinking these were the fastest cosplays ever?

Turns out the place actually exists and has nothing to do with Ciconia. Ryuukishi just took pictures of the place.

Imagine being made into the sister of a main character in a WTC game.

>>22285320
>you're late to the party
>late
>when the VN has only been out for a little over two weeks
Stop projecting; I've been here since Ciconia was released. Rather than trying to find out which could be the spy, or whether any guess might be correct or not, you're merely saying to stop thinking. Stop being a goat.

>i still don't understand how this possibly makes any logical sense.
What part doesn't make sense? I'll explain it to you simply so that even someone of your cognitive abilities is capable of following.

>despite there being no evidence for that in Ciconia or other WtC.

My general theory is that of similar WtC games with a new set of rules for finding out the spy. As per past WtC games, Ciconia is a meta gameboard, but since we are on the piece level, we do not see the witches playing. However, like Higurashi, there are clear win-state goals. Jesstress mentioned them: humanity needs a couple to survive. The game is a battle between knowledge and foreknowledge.

The mystery element regarding the spies is my induction and deduction regarding love and thinking. Koshka said at the end that the problem with the world is that it lacks love. I argued that Ryukishi is following the Shakespearean view that if you do not love, you become nihilistic. As such, I've reread Ciconia multiple times and collected moments where characters mention what they love; see image >>22284967 . The culprit/spy/traitor is whether they lack love (they do not value anything), or they stopped taking responsibility in thinking or choosing. See >>22284929.

A few anons have given their guesses for who is the spy, but those mentions have merely been that Noor looks like one of the crystal girl and everyone pointing out that Lingji has a different gauntlet. Beyond that, no one has given much of any justification for their choices. I was the one that pointed out that Stan follows orders and also pointed out that he could have lied when he told his squad to forget the Order of the Baths.

This >>22285136 anon is the only one that gets it. You don't need to try to solve the mystery of who is the spy or whatever, but you can still try to do it. Just because you've given up thinking doesn't mean I should. If you think that one of my conclusions or generalizations are wrong, point it out rather than try to be skeptical and ask baseless doubt.

>>22285683
I wouldn't be surprised if these cuties got an anime or something.

>>22285694
Not other anon, but you should really look into other reasons why they might be spies. Lack of love might suffice for one or two characters, but I doubt the way to figure out who all 4 (or more) spies is by holding them up to that standard. Some might be spies because they have something to protect and love, and they're being blackmailed with it, or many other reasons.

>>22285634
Someone MG Mion's design is even more disproportionate than R07 Mion.

>>22285683
Wtf I love this store

>>22285057
Chloe, for sure. She even mentions that it should have been impossible for her to succeed. Lilja survived a 0% success rate and says meow. I can't think of anyone else.

Jestress' sprite has visible panties.

>>22285732
She's so hot. Jestress!

>>22285694
Go make a new video.

REMEBER CHAPTER 4 EXIT!!!!
>>22281621

why are mental abnormalities like DID usually seen as the way of the future in a lot of science fiction /jp/, is the world of tomorrow going to be filled with autistic sociopaths?

>>22285732
Seshat's sprite has a visible thong.

>>22285639
The wisdom among other things is implied to be of transcendent nature. The theme of transcendence being present suggests there is something to transcend to. IMO this points not to VR necessarily but a simulation, in the sense of the Simulated Reality theory. The sim itself could be magical in nature. In these terms, God can mean layers of different things. God in the monotheistic sense that they wrote and control the simulation, and God in the polytheist sense that they are outside the simulation and are able to bypass its rules. However, these two aren't mutually exclusive. Monotheism usually accounts for the latter by categorizing them as malicious lesser spiritual entities, with the title of God belonging only to ones with absolute authority. I think Seshat is one of the latter. Her Egyptian appearance is significant. In the Abrahamic religions Egypt is emblematic of things like sorcery (communing with demons) and witchcraft. What am I rambling on about? Adderall is a hell of a drug

>>22285795
Seshat might be an old fat man in reality since we only see her avatar

I loved Jestress instantly because I thought she was literally Lambda. She probably isn't, though, but she's still really likeable.

But I'm really warming up to Vier Dreissig. She's more charismatic and likeable every time she appears. She has a Hitler-y itler charisma that makes you sympathize with her and all the nutjobs in the underground lab.

The way they all focus on their interests and feel free to be themselves, not giving a fuck about autistic behaviors or trying to appear "normal"... is really comfy despite their crazy ideals. And Mario's death is also comfy as hell because he just doesn't give a shit about dying after completing his life's work.

>>22285694
you're not the only one that has contributed to this thread. you can't possibly think you're the only one that has reread ciconia for clues or posted useful screenshots. unless you're really that full of yourself. consider taking it down a notch.

>you're merely saying to stop thinking. Stop being a goat.
maybe you're playing dumb but i'm saying that you're reaching very far with your theories. i simply disagree. to stop thinking would be to let your nonsense stand.

now to the meat of the matter: please tell me how previous wtc had a clear set of rules for finding the culprit.
otherwise it is exactly as i said, you're assuming that ryukishi is playing by a certain set of rules when he hasn't shown to do so before.

the way i see it you're speculating on the THEMES of the story and using them to solve a mystery that isn't necessarily tied to it.

>>22285708
>Some might be spies because they have something to protect and love, and they're being blackmailed with it, or many other reasons.
That's where you misunderstood. The only people that can be spies are those that stopped taking responsibility to think and make choices, as well as not loving. You can't agree to destroy the entire world, including yourself and the one you love while also wanting someone protected. It's contradictory. This understanding of nihilism is why I argue that it's a separation between not loving and not choosing. Ishak doesn't say what anything about whether he loves anything, and that's not enough to suspect him, but he does tell Rethabile to give up the responsibility of choice.

You can't say, anyone could be the spy because of reason X, when the reason for being a spy is nihilism itself. To be nihilistic, you have to value nothing as per the four standards I've given in previous threads, and it's the reason why I argue that Gun isn't the spy. She still values her sister and might even desire revenge. You cannot be nihilistic and seek the end of the world or acquire revenge if everyone is dead. Retribution requires the penitence of the living.

In contrast, Chloe is also more likely to be the spy. While she telling Lilja that she loves to fly, she has a weird discussion with Miyao about rebuilding the world using the analogy of a tower. She mentions that she'll follow any order given to her. Is that love for flying enough of a value for her to remove her from being a spy? It's hard to judge, but at the end of Phase 1, she says that she no longer what is right or wrong anymore.

Inductively, there isn't any other reason for anyone to be a spy if they stopped thinking/taking responsibility to choose or don't love anything. Everyone loves something except for those people.

Mariana loves cute things. Sephania loves her mom. Koshka loves life, Jayden loves Meow, Leah loves being of value to others, Aysha loves prestige and not being poor, Naima loves life and her friends, Gannet loves her friend, Sujatha loves being a hero and clings to hope, Gun loves her siblings/sister, Koshaka loves small pleasures in life and being alive (with the alternative of death, she took the one in infinite change), Momotake loves Lingji, Andy loves being lazy and enjoying life (see Battler), Rukhshana loves Sujatha, Fatman loves people.

Every other spy I've listed as possible suspects such as Stan, Chloe and Ishak mention have they stopped thinking. An except to this is Abdou because he also doesn't say what he loves (or I missed it?) I didn't pick up on him refusing to choose or think, so I'll reread the VN to see if he loves anything. I also haven't found anything on Naiomi. The general issue is that no one has established a proper standard for who could be the spy or why. Everyone has been throwing blindly. Gun might be the spy because she wants her revenge, and that's enough of a reason. Andy said he's kill for money, etc. If you want to argue that X is the suspect because they want to protect X, then you'd have to show me evidence for it because
>Knox 8: It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented.

You can't suspect people without evidence for it. And for every character I've suspected, I've given a reason for it with proper evidence.

>>22285746
>Go make a new video.
I'm too busy solving Ciconia to make a video solving art and art criticism.

>>22285770
I think because you can see the way humanity is progressing today. Things are becoming so simplified with the help of technology that there's no need to focus deeply on one thing. Instead, it's more beneficial to be able to multitask. CPPs are explained to be so powerful because they're able to multitask easily by dividing up processes between their personalities. The human brain is becoming like a computer. It can't just do one thing at all times. It needs to be able to do many things at once to maximize time used.

>>22285867
>consider taking it down a notch
No. I'll be as arrogant as I want to. Your unconscious desire to lower bravado is inconsequential to me.

>>22285872
>You can't agree to destroy the entire world, including yourself and the one you love while also wanting someone protected. It's contradictory.
Maybe they're being told that if they help, they will be chosen to go to the new world along with their loved ones. Sure, there is no proof of that. But there isn't any proof of actual dialogue where they mention the reasons to go full spy.

>when the reason for being a spy is nihilism itself
Solely based on what Koshka mentions? I can think of couple reasons why someone would betray their comrades even with the pretext of the world going to shit.

I think you make good points, but you come off as incredibly pretentious and irritating when someone questions your points.

Why are people concluding that everything is VR? Didn't R07 say that it wasn't? I'm not following the reasoning.

>>22285894
What he said is a red herring.

>>22285894
Where did he say that VR wouldn't play a big role in Ciconia?

>>22285883
or maybe it's my conscious desire to wanting to be treated fairly. not wanting to be called a goat when i've been one of the more active posters itt. especially not by someone posting absurd theories i don't agree with.

really puts your so called bravado into perspective doesn't it?

>>22285902
He didn't say that. I believe he said that, in a story with VR, it's easy to assume that anything could be VR, so he's confirming off the books that it takes place in the real world.

>>22285920
Do you have a source for that?
It would be great because that's one thing less to worry about.

>>22285929
Not him but this I assume https://0707toshokan.wordpress.com/2019/10/13/famitsu-special-interview/

Phase 2: summer or winter '20?
Thoughts?

>>22285936
That doesn't say anything about the game taking place in VR or not.

>>22285891
>Sure, there is no proof of that. But there isn't any proof of actual dialogue where they mention the reasons to go full spy
You can't make theories without any evidence. In relation to my arguments, my standard has been the multiple mentions that to thinking and take responsibility to choose is what makes us human, and to go against that leads to the end of the world. Miyao mentions that only an AI would give the excuse that they were 'just following orders'. Tomitake mentions to his Miyao to always keep thinking. Stan mentions that WW2 guards weren't saved from justice because they kept following orders. A strong thematic focus is to be human and make judgments rather than not think.

>Solely based on what Koshka mentions?
Yes. It's the climax of the story and the central theme of Phase 1: the problem with the world is that it lacks love. But, as I keep mentioning, lacking love is not what makes someone a spy, it's whether they stopped taking responsibility to think and choose. Anyone that loves automatically isn't a spy, anyone that stopped thinking is very likely the spy.

>I can think of couple reasons why someone would betray their comrades even with the pretext of the world going to shit.
I don't doubt that but there's a difference between betraying someone for something you value with nihilistically desiring everything to die because you stopped thinking. To side with the Three Kings is to desire the end of the world. Hell, not even Jesstress fully sides with them because she values something. You have to ask this fundamental question: what would require someone to accept the end of the word? Even Jesstress knows that the Three King want to kill everyone and that even if two people survive, it's a victory for humanity.

>>22285907
>or maybe it's my conscious desire to wanting to be treated fairly. not wanting to be called a goat when i've been one of the more active posters itt. especially not by someone posting absurd theories i don't agree with.
There is nothing unfair about discussing opinions. Whether anyone's views are correct or not will be revealed in due time. You are free to not agree with my views or opinions but it will remain subjective and inconsequential without any alternative perspectives or reasoning behind it. I've also yet to hear any of your views on who is the spy and why. It's a failure of human debate that someone isn't following proper norm by boastfully saying that their views is more likely to be correct. I am self-aware of my bravado and how it is uncouth, yet I do it anyway because I like bragging, especially if I'll end up being correct in the future. Prestige is a fun reward when your theories are proven correct.

.>>22285943
May 2020, probably summer.

>Reading Ciconia
>Clock has just ticked on the first red moon, earthquakes and 8MS going wacky
>For every interesting plot or insight on the nature of the world, there are twenty pages of power of friendship talk in the bathroom that goes absolutely nowhere
Where the hell is the chara development? Why do I have to re-read this stale narrative about how we must protect the walls of peace over and over and over again instead of getting more personal moments for the characters? Not saying there haven't been, in fact those characters that did manage to get such moments had some of the best parts of the episodes. I have never felt so conflicted over any work because I absolute love the worldbuilding and the slow building-up mystery, but at the same time for some reason I'm struggling to read more than 2-3 chapters at a time out of sheer boredom since it feels like nothing is happening.

Am I going insane? I usually binge on Ryukishi's stuff and can't stop reading, but this has proven really taxing. Is my biased view preventing me from enjoying characters interactions?

>>22286000
After you clear the main scenario there's over a dozen extra scenes, and that's where the character development is for the most part. Make sure you read all of them, there's a hidden one that unlocks after you do that

Wait, why are we assuming that loving someone means that you don't want the world to end? Remember that the 3 kings don't want to kill all of humanity. I think it's a given that someone working with them would assume that they would survive. The win condition being at least 2 humans living doesn't mean that the 3 kings want to kill everyone except 2 humans.

>>22286000
I feel inclined to grep -c "sprouts of war" the script to satisfy my curiosity, cause it sure felt like I was stuck in a loop every now and then. But I still gobbled it down in 2 days. No idea how R07 does it, but every time I read - or reread for that matter - his vns, time stands still for me.
It was a bit watered down, especially towards the beginning, but afterwards it was a great read. And as
>>22286017
mentioned: do read the archive. All 16 scenes.