/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>22079781

is it october yet?

Mariaは

Battler is a gay homo who kissed a boy

The intergluteal cleft of Houjou Satoko!

Reading Umineko when I was a teenager ruined my entire life. Thanks, Ryu07.

>>22080608
Why?

>>22079781
GEORGE THEORY:

this is a theory that explains how all the murders of the games were committed by george and kanon!!!!


kanon is not shannon, george agrees to help kanon commit the murders to get the card with 2 billion yen (the golden
brooch) so he can marry shannon because in this capitalist world money can make every magic even allow a forniture to marry a master!!!
with this thery in every betrice's games the culprits are the same always kanon and george!!!
so no more eva culprit in 3 games but not in the second and
>MuH EvErYoNe Is ThE CuLpRiTs!!!!

exemple:
will:
>It is forbidden for a servant to be the culprit! ...Van Dine's Twenty Rules, Rule #11.
in the second game sh\kanon died with george and gohda so kumasawa and nanjo was killed by genji
but this violates the red of will
instead with george and kanon culprits only george died in the room with shannon and kanon could easily kill kumasawa and nanjo

>>22079781
>ywn play restricted rock-paper-scissors with Mion, Beato and Midori and turn them into your personal maids

>>22080739
The kid shouldn't be participating because she's too young and dumb. She'd get demolished by Mion and Beato.

>>22080569
>"Nii nii don't put it in my ass I'll become stupiiiiiiid!"

I love this midget

>>22081292
fuck off jayden

>>22080619
Because he's experienced the best story at the beginning of his life. Everything after is decline.

>>22080608
>>22080619
>>22081522

I've hopped on the ride when the answer arc was just beginning, when episode 5 had been released. Gotta say that definitely it left a permanent impression during my youth, as well. The loneliness that Ange and Maria experienced hits home.

>>22080627

>>22081729
this
fucking shannon love battler only for his body
we live i a society

>>22080627
when I did bern's purpletext game I actually came up with george culprit as an alternate solution

>>22081781
maybe ryukishi hide the solution in bern game
because after the 7th everyone accept shkanontrice!!!!
can you explaine why?

Is Umineko the greatest construction and deconstruction of the mystery genre?

We get four episodes full of motivation to expose the truth, but after the answer arc, we are actually goats and there is a meta inside the meta of the story, Danganronpa V3 tried to do this with the reality show twist but wasn't so much of an impact as it was with Umineko slowly BTFOing the whole readers.

>>22081781
>>22081995

After Bern's game ends and the goats start to appear, Erika literally save Ange by stating in blue that Bern's game could be solved logically with other culprits instead of Battler's family, so yeah.

>>22082081
perfect so we just find how george commit the crime and we confirm george theory!!!!

>>22082109
that's easy, after the second twilight he just eats everyone

>>22082124
with kanon?s master key
she and george can kill everyone

>>22082124
>>22082081
>>22081781
george and kanon kill the six in the first twilight
and closed the room with kanon masterkey
bern:
>Bernkastel confirms with the red that the culprit of the first twilight really did kill six people
kanon kill krauss and Natsuhi closed the room with her master key
kanon kill shannon ,kill herself , become yasu and destroy the 2 master key.
kanon kill gohda and kumasawa he could enter
because George claims to have checked the guesthouse in case some might have snuck in, but it was completely locked up!!!!
its all a big lie of the culprit
aftter this yasu kill nanjo and jessica

ALL SOLVED WITH KANON AND GEORGE AS CULPRITS LIKE IN ALL THE GAMES

One thing I like about Battler is that even though he's a self proclaimed Boob Sommelier, he mostly does this as a front to break the ice. He freaks out when Shannon agrees to let him touch her breasts, nothing is actually supposed to come of it.

>>22082245
battler not groping ange was a copout

>>22082245
>>22082290

> another kakera
> battler actually touches shannon's breasts as intended
> pad falls
> plot reveled, plan is over, everyone is dumbfounded
> crisis averted

I am not even calling it a miracle kakera because the actual miracle is the sheer density and autism of the Ushiromiya family, the sequence of retarded choices and dumb ploys that happened to cause it could be avoided with one single sane decision.

>Rena

>>22082460
>mfw I still know jack shit about Japanese but was able to read and understand all that shit in like 3 seconds
Feels good. Although that last kanji puzzles me.

>>22082680
見参. It means meeting

I like how everyone in Mion's club is unique but they also feel very similar. Not a single one of them is an awkward faggot like George, or a glasses-wearing nerd, or a shy innocent person (Rena is just pretending, or a thickheaded dumbass like Jessica, or a sulking edgelord... They are all intelligent, considerate and assertive.

Nobody wants an awkward fuck in their group.

>>22083006
They're also all traumatized psychopaths, except for maybe Mion.

Also Jessica strikes me as quite similar to Mion, I think people call her a dumbass mainly because Shkanontrice can't really work without her being one

>>22079889
beato

>>22083345
Shkanontrice doesn't need Jessica to be dumb. She's just the kind of person that ignores ideas she finds disturbing and tries to explain weird shit away using occam's razor (ironically, since she canonically doesn't shave her pussy at all). So if she notices a similarity between Shannon and Kanon, she just thinks it's coincidence or that they're really silbings or some simpler explanation, rather than considering some disturbing/bizarre possibility like them being the same person pretending and putting on fake breasts. She just brushes away those ideas.

Now, she IS dumb regardless. She's not a fucking idiot, but she's not all that bright either. Definitely not as clever or emotionally perceptive as Mion. And that's OK. Like Krauss said, a dumb woman is shallow and boring, but a woman who is too intelligent can be a pain too. Jessica fits right in the middle, so she's perfect.

Maria is! She is!

>>22083389
Perhaps. Jessica has always felt like one of the weaker links in Shkanontrice.

>>22083754
that can be explained by calling jessica dumb slut

>>22083771
Jessica being a slut would make things even more difficult to explain.

>>22079781
>>22082460
These 07th party specials were better than expected.

i want to fuck ange so bad

>>22083345
Is there any possibility that George and Jessica knew about it?

miyao towering over these manlets

Ange has a fat ass and fat tits, she probably masturbates alot

>>22084380
Define a lot

Rena's my waifu hauu~

>>22083389
Jessica, George, Eva , natsuhi ,Krauss,kyrie and gohda must be dumb for mad shkanontrice works

Instead with George theory only battler is dumb

>>22084415
At least once a day. Usually two or three times though. Of course, most of her fantasies involve her brother.

>>22084415
She obviously masturbates the whole time she is locked in the toilet during lunch

Why does everyone suddenly pretend that Keiichi is some super charismatic Messiah during Minagoroshi-hen? Did Ryukishi just feel like he needed some kind of gimmick to set him apart from the other club members, and slapped on that "Magician of Words" thing?

shion

>>22084801
He needed a Mary Sue to resolve the story. He fucked up because Keiichi was a cool character before 7/8.

>>22084936
Dunno if I'd describe him as "cool", but Keiichi was definitely more interesting in the earlier arcs.

>>22084801
>>22084936
The characters being multifaceted that act different depend on circumstance is one of the point of Higu, it's not like K1 fucked up in one arc and he wouldn't capable of being charismatic in other arcs also K1 characterization peaked at Tsumi which is the balance of both worlds

C'mon guys, think about it from Jessica's perspective. Would it ever occur to you that two of your friends are the same person because they look alike, especially with the far likelier possibility of them just being related? It's just too ridiculous to think of.

>>22082068
Don't be like that. Don't be asshurt. Yes, I know, you thought Kanon and George were the culprit. It is hard to admit having made a mistake. It is hard to admit you were wrong. It is hard to admit you had a very low IQ. This is incredibly hard.

But don't be asshurt just because you were wrong. Umineko never insulted you. Umineko just wanted your best. Your "best" failed at being at the same level as everyone else. That's all. The issue is not within Umineko. The issue is within you.

Don't be asshurt. Inhale. Exhale. Be peaceful. George and Kanon aren't the culprits. This made no sense. Admit it. Move on with your life. And stop being so buttpained about it.

>>22086229
man i am george culprit fag
and i didnt pos this
i fucking love umineko
for me is the best book ever change my life
but the end fuck cmon how can u belive shkanontrice shit!!!!
there are 100+ contracdition people stop think and accept this like true!!!!
but i will never surrend i will never stop think until i will show the true

BECAUSE MY SOLUTION HAVE LOVE

>>22079781
>07thmod has a hide interface option that keeps the text
nice, i can actually take screenshots now.

I stopped reading the tips after reading the chapter 2 tips that talked about the servants being used as vessels for demons. They hadn't mentioned that in the story near as I could tell, so I thought they were spoilers. Should I go back and read them?

>>22086628
go fuck magic isnt real

Anges fat hairy teen pussy

>>22086628
Why the fuck would the author spoil the story in the tips? Are you retarded?

>>22086628
>They hadn't mentioned that in the story near as I could tell, so I thought they were spoilers.
You are supposed to know that information going into the next chapter, that's why it's made available after the second tea party. It's not mentioned in the story but it's part of the narrative.

Jesus Christ, do people not know how to properly read a story anymore? Next time you're gonna tell me prequels are supposed to be experienced before the original work.

Why would anyone choose to read this without the original backgrounds? They are amazing.

>>22087202
image shkanontrice fags belive that this tits are fake

>>22087100
>Are you retarded?
Apparently, yeah.

>>22087113
Didn't realize my mistake was so severe. I mean, it just seemed like a piece of information that should have been brought up in the story itself, rather than in a character bio. Besides, tips are usually optional in my experience. They've always just been bonus advice.

>>22087218
Only one way to find out, mate.

>>22087494

>>22087494
battler almost do it
shannon without fear let him touch them
battler is a tits somelier so if shannon tits are fake she would have been afraid but instead she was quiet
this mean real tits!!!

>>22087428
>Besides, tips are usually optional in my experience. They've always just been bonus advice.
Why skip them, though? They are not just bonus info to solve the mystery, this is a story before being a puzzle.

>>22086628
>I thought they were spoilers
Wait, you haven't finished the story yet? What the hell are you doing here? There's no way you haven't read the massive spoilers people are posting right above this post.

Hello anons, just wondering if there's any way to play Miotsukushi-hen in English, in order to complete the general sequence of the best visual novel experience in the world.
Have a nice day.

o just found this on the github,
> Porting Miotsukushi Omote is complete and translation has begun! This arc is huuuge, so translation will probably take until the end of the year.
So I guess we gotta wait til 2020? And the anons who have already read it, read the manga, or can read japanese, or did machine TL?

>>22087930
>read the manga
Does it exist in manga form? I never cared for it because I thought the original Matsuribayashi ending was perfect (with Saikoroshi as an epilogue).

>>22087906
https://github.com/07th-mod/higurashi-console-arcs
it's in progress

>>22087906
How is the actual writing and prose in the console arcs? I assume it must be pretty different from R07's.

From the few summaries I've read, the stories seem to be retarded edgy shit for the most part.

>>22087906
>best visual novel experience in the world
you mean umineko

>>22087906
I would read the console arcs if I could use the original art. And if the writer understood the characters as well as Ryuukishi, because some of the plot points are fucking retarded and require characters to act in ways that they never would in the original VN.

I was listening to this song by Wisp and this part on reminded me of music from Umineko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5JJMEC9uIw&t=2m11s

Anyone else have songs that remind them of the Umineko OST?

>>22084415
about as much as any other lonely depressed slightly chubby person would

>>22087906
how's the console arcs?
i'm currently reading minagoroshi but didn't bother with them, are they good?

>>22087202
do the original backgrounds imply that all the characters look like real 3D people and their anime looks are fake?

>>22088222
They are fanfiction not written by Ryuukishi. Pretty interesting, although some are shitty, but definitely not something you should read before finishing all 9 main arcs. They can give you wrong ideas about the characters and cheapen the story with their edgy bullshit scenarios.

I know these always turn into shit flinging contests, but I want to try just this once. Can we share our opinions on what our favorite R07 series is and what we most enjoy about them? Comparing to other series should be fine as long as you're not being purposefully inflammatory.
Higurashi is my favorite because it feels like it could happen in real life. The setting is grounded and even though I'm a filthy new-sprites reader (will reread with originals) the atmosphere was captivating. When the characters were in a room or underground I felt just as claustrophobic.
There felt like real stakes rather than a meta, intellectual detective novel. It felt like once the first grueling SOL hours were over, somehow I eventually felt connected to all the characters and the town became my own.
I even ended up visiting Hinamizawa IRL (Shirakawago). An old man in the village said everyone is very close and good friends, and they all work together to protect (mamoru) the village.

>>22088240
I really can't rank the four main series because I like them equally. Even Higanbana, which is nowhere near as complex or expansive as the others, is still my absolute favorite sometimes.

I can't really decide which is my favorite or least favorite. Each of them could be the best or the worst depending on the day.

>>22088240
Hard to decide, its character dependant for me.
Both Evas, Alan and Izanami became my favourites

>>22088240
Higurashi is my most favorite due to the character interactions: adult jokes and teases regardless of age, which is something that happens in real life, and an overall sense of good camaraderie. Makes you care for them when shit hits the fan.

Umineko was more on the nose about being a Mystery with Magic Fuckery, the latter of which I really liked. Tied together with a bow about the importance of "magic", which was quite heartwarming. I like it for what it is, but by design it's too convoluted.

Never played RGD or Higanbana, though I hope to get to the latter soon. It's a damn shame the original medium, the manga, isn't fully translated. Is it even available in raw?

>read the VN
I'm kind of a purist in these instances. I'll get around to that, but I'm curious about how was this originally penned.

Hotarubi was a cool survival manga that had good info about Buddhism and shit. I also liked, as cliched as it is, that the female twin sister was the designated fanservice character.

Kaidan is one of those interesting "what ifs" where you see that Miyoko being weird, therefore being a cunt is just part of her personality no matter how you slice it. It's an alright mini mystery.

Ookami Kakushi was painfully bad, it's one of those series I'm glad it was fucking over by the end.

Never actually read that High-school girls manga of his.

>>22088394
The Higanbana manga is pretty much garbage and isn't even finished. All it will do is spoil the first 3 chapters in a really crappy way, so you are better off avoiding it.

>>22088394
I know Hotarubi, but what the hell is Kaidan? Does Miyo appear there too?

>>22088473
https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=14200

Tanashi Miyoko does indeed appear there.

>>22079781
jesus christ Jessica's VA screams like a champ. gets under my bones every time.

>>22087802
I thought they would reveal stuff that would be presented naturally in the chapters, and figured I'd enjoy them more if I experienced them as part of the narrative. I realize now that they were more important than I thought.

>>22087811
I finished the story. It's just that I stopped reading the tips after chapter 2.

>>22088816
It's a well known fact that girls scream louder when they have hairy 80s pussies. That's why Jessica can scream so loud, she practices every time she masturbates.

A girl shaving her pubes is the equivalent of a dog cutting off his whiskers or a guy getting circumcised. The sensibility is like 70% lower that way. Useless. Trash.

>>22088921
You were supposed to read them at the time and kick yourself after finishing the story for not noticing the foreshadowing in the EP2 tips, where they straight up tell you that Shannon is "Kinzo's handmade furniture created without using the power of magic.

You also missed out on all the witch lore from EP4, where they explain voyagers and creators. And a lot of other shit, like Erika disappearing from the tips in EP6 and literally telling you about the bomb. I bet you went into EP7 thinking Erika was some fantasy character made up by Bern, even though killing her in the tips tells you that she's in fact real.

>>22088943
Dang, yeah. I totally missed that stuff.

So, Umineko Gold is totally dead now, right? I actually saved money for the Kickstarter campaign ;_;

>>22079781
Rosa best worst mom

>>22088466
>and isn't even finished
That's not completely true. The manga is much shorter than the VN, but it was finished. It does have a proper ending

Brainlet here, I'm doing the puzzle thingy in Matsuribayashi, but I really don't get what am I supposed to do.
Do I just have to read the pieces in the right order?

>>22089360
Yep, you need to read certain events to unlock others.

>>22089034
Well, one can hope VA girl gets time to do it again eventually.

>>22089034
not like saving money is a bad thing

>>22090036
I mean sure but I already spent it on other stuff several times.

>>22089034
you can support a starving artists with that money by making them paint your witch portrait

>>22089034
Why did you want such a bastardization to come out?

Does anyone know the font used here? I found Pristina who's very similar but that's not really it.

>>22090908
Why is romaji always so cringy? Like when people write the lyrics of a Japanese song in romaji. It looks dumb as hell.

>>22091054

>>22091338
the wacuteness of a literal wacute

This summer I found a seemingly hurt seagull drifting on the sea just like a bottle with a message would. Ended up on the beach next to me and I went closer and didn't ran away but didn't fly or walk or was even afraid so I grabbed it and put it under a shadow to protect it from the sunlight. Eventually we were were able to get a veterinarian and take it to the vet clinic to see what was wrong. Never heard of it every since what does this mean?

>>22091870
it means that it truly was a umineko no naku koro ni

>>22091920
Never made any kind of noise or cry either.

>>22088240
>Higurashi
A really good VN, the 6th chapter is my favorite chapter in WTC
>Umineko
One of my favorite work of fiction, it changed how I view things irl
>RGD
It's well written, the ending felt rushed but it was still good
>Higanbana
The chapters rank from normal to really good, reaper of the 13th step is my favorite and I kinda recognize myself in Aya

>>22091870
It was a higher-plane being trying to establish contact with you.

>>22092024
You mean meta-characters?

GEORGE THEORY IS THE TRUE

>>22088924
I see.

>>22092570
fuck off retard

>>22092833
true hurt u cuck

What happened to Goldsmith?
Where the fuck did his videos go?

>dress better, act like an "alpha" and you'll go from 4/10 to 8/10
oh no no no no

So was Umineko just a big piece of Christian propaganda?

Humiliatiya Ange.

>>22093630
The virgin Batallador Blanco vs the clown Jorge Gordo.

The cagandoness of a literal Satokokid.

The fuck does cagando even mean?

>>22093780
Shitting in spanish

>>22093619
His channel got taken down for copyright bs. Luckily I'd saved all his Umineko stuff and posted it here.
https://mega.nz/#F!V902XYBR!sU3fdouFR6jcsxvpl2T3_A

>>22093702
big pro italian propaganda
>beautiful italian girl
>italians brave soldiers kill all japanese outnumbered
>divine comedy best book
ecc...

>>22093630
the detective and the culprit swap bodies
nice movie plot

>>22093791
You golden hearted bastard

>Voat.com users are represented by goats
>they use catbox to host images
>as seen by their leader, Sam Hyde, they lack love
curse u beato

>>22093809
I want to take his face... off...

umineko gold this friday

>>22088924
Is this true? My loli gf is bald down there, does that mean she's technically a sexually crippled furniture ass loser?

>>22088924
It's so weird to realize that even tomboys like Mion and Jessica have 80s bushes between their legs.

They are so boyish and masculine, and yet their naked bodies are the epitome of femininity. There is nothing more feminine than a hairy pussy. They are such tomboys, and yet their naked bodies reveal their true nature. They are females and it's natural for them to be fucked and squeal like pigs, abandoning all pride and masculinity. Lewd!

The chad humiliator vs the virgin humiliatee.

>>22093630
Idiot its j-just the haircut

The PS3 backgrounds kill the atmosphere so badly. The part where George and the others go to the chapel in EP2 to retrieve a key from Natsuhi's corpse is ruined by the bright, clearly defined, empty background that shows the seats where the corpses are supposed to be completely EMPTY.

>>22096583
The original background enhance the atmosphere. The PS3 ones often force you to not pay attention to them to avoid breaking immersion. What a travesty.

Being killed fucking hurts. Yasu should fucking go to hell for getting Gohda involved in its bullshit.

OOOOOOOOHHHH BEEDOREECHAAAAAYYYY

>>22092570
Dammit. You have graphs. That's a compelling piece of evidence there.

>>22096840
It does? How do you know it does? There is zero evidence that being killed would hurt, not even in a thought experiment.

>>22097128
Being killed and waking up in the hospital after an almost fatal wound feel the same. Only the latter case lets you remember what it feels like to be shot, but people say it fucking hurts.

>>22097145
That doesn't count, because the wounded patients didn't die. Completely illogical.

>>22097163
Dying is not a "thing". It just means losing consciousness and never waking up again. The act of losing consciousness feels the same whether you wake up again or not.

The killyourselfness of Ushiromiya Satoggo, a lewd ass lolee kid.

>>22097074
yes
this is the true
there is no proof that can deny george theory

But it's your choice!!!!
what you prefer:
1)kanon and shannon are the same person
an lgbt mental illness (tumbrl tier)
jessica george krauss natsuhi eva hydeoshi kyrie and rudulph are so stupid that didnt notice nothing!!!
Eva is the culprit in 3 games but not in the second
there is 17 bodies in rokkenjima!!!
doesent matter there is erika body
a character created after allience of the golden witch!!!! image people who spend thousents of hours try to solve the mistery but cant because one piece of the puzzle was missed!!!
and the most diguting thing of shakanontrice
>muh everyone is the culprit
the biggest insult to the reader
there is no motive that make everyone help kanon
but this is need for explaine why no one notice that kanon is shannon in the 4th game.
Where is love in this solution!!!!

VS

kanon isnt shannon, kanon is a cute tomboy!!!
in every game the culprit are the same
kanon and george with genji,kumasawa and nanjo as accomplices(even bern's game)
no erika body so you can solve the mistery with play only the first 4 games

SO WHAT IS FOR YOU THE BEST SOLUTION NOW?

>>22097559
>there is 17 bodies in rokkenjima!!!
Sorry, I haven't been paying much attention to your past shitposts. Is this actually stated or shown somewhere in the question arcs? Or are you just asserting this?

>>22097559
i read this post in the most stereotypical retarded person voice. just letting you know.

>>22079781
Anyone else keep forgetting Ciconia is coming out in less than a month?

so we know Anges pussy is hairy, is her butthole also hairy?

>>22098892
Ange's underwear here. Yes, can confirm.

>>22098892

nobody knows or cares, go fap to some actually attractive characters

>>22098811

yes. ciconia is just kinda whatever. zero hype

>>22098669
Yes
I dont remeber where
But when i discuss with shkanontrice they confirm it with Erika body
>>22098773
You dont read
If i say wrong things argument

>>22098669
>Before Nanjou's murder, Kinzou, Krauss, Natsuhi, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie, Rosa, Maria, George, Gouda, Kumasawa, Genji, Shannon, and Kanon were all dead!

Red true who killed nanjo?
Shannon/kanon was death
Sul didnt respond and even the manga explaine who He die!!!!
If kanon isnt shannon
Kanon can kill nanjo and this explaine the voice that Jessica gear when she was blind

>>22099442
>Yes
Pics or it didn't happen.
>>22099512
How does the Shkanon thing even make a difference here? Kanon is red-truth dead in either case, so in either case you need to fall back on the idea that "dead" can refer to personalities rather than bodies. And once you have that, Yasu can be the one to kill Nanjo regardless of how many other "dead" people are actually Yasu's alternate personalities.

>>22099540
So with this logic everyone can be yasu eccept battler
But if u belive in shkanontrice
Yasu die before He kill hanno
So nanjo was killed by an x culprit
Eva and jessica cant kill nanjo according
To the Red and He cant kill himself for the same reason

So no one can kill nanjo!!!

So shkanontrice is wrong

>>22099540
And according with shkanontruce fags
Battler saw everyone toghether eccept shannon and kanon
So the only ones that can be the same person are these 2 Because the detective cant see lies

But in the 5th game Erika the detective saw kanon and Shannon toghether
So these 2 are different person

>>22099634
>So with this logic everyone can be yasu eccept battler
Unless there is evidence to the contrary, sure. And there is evidence to the contrary, seen from Battler's perspective when he has the detective's authority.
>But if u belive in shkanontrice
>Yasu die before He kill hanno
Sorry, this is borderline incoherent. By "hanno" do you mean Nanjo? Again there's nothing about the Shkanon idea that would make any difference here. Yasu wouldn't have been dead at that point in either case.
>>22099653
>in the 5th game Erika the detective saw kanon and Shannon toghether
No, she doesn't. She has no dialogue or scenes from her perspective that would confirm this.

>>22099671
>No, she doesn't. She has no dialogue or scenes from her perspective that would confirm this.

U can see it even from the beginning
There are everyone in the same room(including shannon and kanon) when erika accuse natsuhi

>>22099671
>Sorry, this is borderline incoherent. By "hanno" do you mean Nanjo? Again there's nothing about the Shkanon idea that would make any difference here. Yasu wouldn't have been dead at that point in either case.

Yasu die with george
Will confirm it
So there is a murder that is impossibile for everyone
So magic exist?
Nope only shkanon is wrong

>>22099713
And that scene is not viewed from Erika's perspective, nor does Erika say or do anything during that scene to acknowledge Shannon and Kanon as different people.
>>22099728
>Yasu die with george
Nope. Are you getting Episode 2 and Episode 3 mixed up?

>>22093791
someone have his higurashi videos?

>>22098811
The opposite in my case, I can't forget it

>>22099713
>>22099728
Just let it go, dude. You're clearly too stupid/not human enough to understand what you read.

>>22098811
Well I don't wanna get too hyped up since the English translation could just be delayed.

>>22093791
>https://mega.nz/#F!V902XYBR!sU3fdouFR6jcsxvpl2T3_A

you are rock

>>22099984
Image insult instead of arguments
Goat spotted
>>22099753
Yasu die in the room where shannon was found in the homicide circle with george
>its not erika point of view
Image erika called everyone in the same room for destroy natsuhi and didnt notice that a servant miss
20 of iq
How can a person be so stupid?
Simple she see them
In the 5th games the only 1 illusion we saw was kinzo and battler see him when erika left him
So we cant see illusion if erika is near

Image be so brainwashed that belive in this bullshit

>>22100740
It's... Not an illusion? It's the typical trick of a narrator lying about what they saw. They're testimonies. I'm not weighing in one way or the other, I just want to see proof you understand some of the series basic concepts.

>>22100740
>Image insult instead of arguments
If you want more people to take you seriously, you should try being more coherent.
>Yasu die in the room where shannon was found in the homicide circle with george
By "homicide circle", are you referring to the first twilight? Yasu was pretending to be dead. Again, this is necessarily true regardless of whether Shkanontrice is a thing, since Kanon was part of the circle of closed rooms. Note that Shannon's corpse is nowhere to be seen when Battler later finds George's corpse in the same room.
>Image erika called everyone in the same room for destroy natsuhi and didnt notice that a servant miss
How would Erika know? Remember, this is a game without honor where Yasu takes completely different actions. Shannon and Kanon may not even both be on the island in this version.
>the only 1 illusion we saw was kinzo and battler see him when erika left him
How do you know this?
>So we cant see illusion if erika is near
Nothing ever says there can't be unreliable narration when the detective is around, just that the detective's own perspective is reliable.

>>22100800
>>22100885
I am very bad in english but this doesent allow you to insult my theory

The problem in this theory is the 6th game
Erika think that shannon and kanon are the same person even here
So kanon and shannon was in the 5th game
Because erika know them
And if her didnt never see them toghether why she didnt think that are the same person?
During marriage this idea was never think by erika
A person that read every yellow mistery novels
Why?
Simple she was sure because she see them toghether!!!!

>>22100912
I'm not insulting your theory, just explaining why people think you're a retard. In any case, Erika's whole issue is that she would get fixated on specific assumptions and then get completely blindsided if they ended up being wrong. The whole previous game was just her insisting on Natsuhi being guilty and intentionally not even looking for evidence that might contradict her theory. It doesn't matter how many mystery novels you've read if you're not intelligent or creative enough to apply that knowledge.
And speaking of the 6th game, how do you explain the "Erika is the 17th person on the island" red truth?

Was Tatarigoroshi kino or just retarded? It has some truly tragic moments, but many of the "problems" of the arc come down to characters being idiots and completely failing to communicate basic information. It reminds me of the worst parts of Umineko.

i want to hold anges hand

>>22100944
Erika didnt exist
Lambda say with red
That erika didnt count in the first 4 games
Simple the 5th game and the 6th game
Werw another stories
Another novels
And she disappier when battler and beato shot her
Because rokkenjima story is not her story

>>22101068
>Erika didnt exist
Only in the question arcs. It's stated in red in Episode 5 shortly after Erika's appearance that her presence increases the number of people on the island by 1. Besides, the phrasing isn't even consistent with that interpretation. It's phrased as "even if you do join us", so it doesn't matter whether she was actually there or not. Her presence would increase the number of people from 16 to 17.

shion shion shion

>>22086229
Because someone isn't paying tribute to any rule doesn't mean they failed. I know this George+Kanon lover is funny but he thought of new ways (maybe like a fool). Back to the rules. Bern's game is a good example that readers can be fair and it would be ungenerous to tell them "It'S NoT tHe RigHt SolUtIon ThE AuthOr HaD iN MiNd!!11". E.g. coop-murders were never forbidden or restricted (two murderer hold one of the ends of a rope comes to my mind) where you couldn't detemine one true murderer. That's an easy way to get one of the parents get many kills while somebody like a child could get a kill, too. So is it my low IQ to ignore obvious facts and see hidden openings?
And of course the sealing process is too misleading. The culprit could snuck out while everyone was in Natsuhi's room with the help of the other culprit.

maria using sakutaro to masturbate as she grows older

I don't really know where else to ask, but here goes.
I would like to make something similar to pic related for a big friend I know who's a big fan of Umineko and sent me this picture once as a joke a few months ago, telling me that he'd love to have something like this done for him. I've done a little surface-level research on the Umineko manga/anime (is it that good?) and I was thinking of a cake centered around the main blonde Beatrice girl you see everywhere instead. The thing is, I don't know how to cook or bake at all, and his birthday is drawing near. (exactly one week from now)
Should I try and learn basic baking skills or should I directly ask a bakery to make a cake with precise specifications? If online stores can make you personalized tea cups surely there should be something like this but with cakes.

>>22101405
As any myg0t will tell you, baking a cake is one of the hardest things in the world to do. If you started now with a cake baking mom as a mentor you wouldn't be ready for a least 15 years. Sorry anon. Aint happening.

>>22101443
Rude

>>22101127
Simple. Furudo Erika is the detective that never arrived on the island. Even Lambda hinted that false detectives can appear in mystery stories. So what did we get? The scene Battler was blocking Erika is a clear facade. Bernkastel was the detective, not Erika. It's clear this scene is fantasy where the reader is forced to believe "this" Erika is the detective. Also, the actual hints of the crime scene weren't presented in the story itself but in the court. The main crime was framing Natsuhi which is solveable without the truths of the court chapter.

>>22100740
The only one who miss 20 of iq is you

>>22101612
Argument before insult
Say your theory isnt right because x y z and after this say stupid iq brainlet

You understan now?
Or your iq is -777

>>22097559
Yeah, you're obviously right. I have searched for graphs on the so called Shkannontrice theory, but there are none. No one compiled the data into numbers. It is so obviously fake.

Protip: when you can't create charts for your theories, your theories are DEEPLY flawed. Now I think most of the so called "Shkannontrice 'supporters' " are paid shills for Mangagamer, who were known to support that kind of malpractice in other visual novels before.

>>22101127
So Why erika disappier?
If she really increase the number of the person to 17
This mean that she exist
Instead battler say
Even if you join is there are 17 person in this island and after this she disappier
This mean erika doesent count as a person
So maybe erika is like kanon a mental illness of one of 17 person

>>22101819
So kanon is furude erika
This is why erika didnt see nothing in the armchiar in the 6th game
She become kanon made battler exit
And return erika
This explaine everything

>>22101835
wardrobe not armchiar sorry

Rudolftrice

>>22101819
>>22101835
>>22101837

>>22101944
She was a reader
She was a writer
So battler as last game want make her become for one time the detective
But erika personality was too strong

But for a moment she return normal and save battler
And when she return erika no human was in the room with her

KANON ISNT SHANNON

KANON ,ERIKA are YASU
And yasu is a women
Just with no tits
But tomboy best girl
Traps are gay

>>22101835
Kanon has to bring a corpse with him because 2 bodies enter the guest room. Because corpses aren't counted as people so it can work. Erika changed to Kanon in the bathroom, then set the chainlock, "died", and can escape through the window and reseal it (apparently, seals are locks , too). Return as Shannon to the guesthouse.

>>22095284
>>22095322
Tomboy with bigs tits are the best. But I hate it when artists draw Mion with huge breasts that would be impossible for anyone under 30 to have, let alone a 17 year old girl.

>>22102011
dubs confirm
erika=kanon is the only solution to the question
why erika didnt see nothing in the wardrobe

+ battle say that even if u join us there is 17 people this mean shannon and kanon are different person

everything now fit

The real culprit was Gohda.

There was actually two Battlers, one of them was Asumu's son, the other one was Kyrie's son. The Battler who appeared at the conference until Asumu died was her son but the one we treat as the main character is actually Kyrie's son who faked his stillbirth and killed Battler (Asumu's son) and usurped his place (the reason he didn't come to the conference for 6 years is because he looked different so he had to make sure that people forget how he looks).

Battler (son of Asumu) survives however and infiltrates the mansion as Gohda with the intent of waiting until Battler (Kyrie son) comes back so that he can kill him. The reason he treats Kanon and Shannon like shit is because he still loves Shannon and he assumes that she's having sex with Kanon because she's always being secretive about him. The fact that Gohda hates both of them is proof that he's seen them together (presumably having sex and thus proving that they are NOT the same person).

Gohda Battler solves the riddle and uses the money to bribe the servants and Nanjo and have them help him but he plans to get rid of Kanon and Shannon in the end. In the first game he fakes his death then kills Kanon, in the second one he kills Kanon and Jessica and locks the door with his master key and in the third one he fakes his death and kills nanjo.

The reason Beato exists is because Gohda Battler has an imaginary waifu but she's too stupid to realize that he's the real Battler and falls for Kyrie Battler instead which drives Gohda Battler insane and makes him kill everyone.

Imagine being so stupid that you believe in any other theory than this one

>>22102570
>mangagamer posting create for make people lost focus about george theory now that we discover that erika is kanon

nope gohda is only a rapist that rape jessica and shannon nothing more

george and kanon are the culprit
kanon isnt shannon
kanon and erika are personality of the same person yasu

so now everything is explained
we finnally solve umineko!!!!

>>22095322
Is this the reason nudity is humiliating? There's no way Mion'd want her hairy green pussy exposed for everyone to see, judge, mock and laugh at.

>>22079781
So now that the dust is settled which Rokkenjima victims deserved it the most/least?

would giving the knox decalogue for umineko from the start be too much help?

also, how do I make the solution not sound dumb and cheap the "Personalities/personas count as a person" part

>>22103298
Why would one need to explicitly verbalize the solution at any point? You're not dealing with retards, are you?

>>22103327
i do it
george and kanon are the culprits
kanon isnt shannon
kanon and erika are personalities of yasu

this is the solution and dont have Personalities/personas count as a person

>>22103334
>yasu
"literally" who?

>>22103339
sayo yasuda

>>22103339
sayo yasuda

>>22103276
>dust
Rude.

>>22103367
>>22103372
doesn't answer my question. was that something/someone from ep7 or 8? because I speedread most of the parts in those.

>>22103327
I'd want to verbalize it when theyre done reading to clarify any questions, for conversation, and to make the "Persona counts as a person" not sound dumb and cheap.

Because honestly--I still feel cheated when I think about it. I don't mind the mutiple personas, thats perfectly fine. But when taking into account an exact number of people, it just sound retarded. It undercuts the entire mystery. Reading Umineko for me was like seeing a master chef cook a meal that you just ordered, and then when it's almost ready, a waiter comes out and hands you a caesar salad and some bread sticks. Like this wasnt what the menu described the dish as. Did I pronounce the order wrong? I'd like to clarify.

>>22103385
Jesus Christ, how can you claim to have read Umineko while simultaneously not know who Sayo/Yasu is?

>>22103334
>george and kanon are the culprits
that’s weirdly what I thought as well. wasn’t fully sure about kanon, but I always knew there was something wrong with george.
>kanon and erika are personality of the same person yasu
that doesn’t make much sense to me. will rereading ep7 change this?

>>22103405
>verbalize it when theyre done reading to clarify any questions
I’m not sure why you’d need to do that unless you’re dealing with retards. You can answer questions with further questions and let them think for themselves.
>make the "Persona counts as a person" not sound dumb and cheap
You shouldn’t try to make some condensed explanation sound meaningful when they have the actual context of how it integrates into the story.

>>22098950
>Ange's underwear here.
How does one get this job?

>>22102695
>nope gohda is only a rapist that rape jessica and shannon nothing more
is there a red true stating that they weren’t willing?

>>22103453
Okay for christ's sake, let's just say Im dealing with a retatd for the sake of moving past that.
"Persona is a person" even with the full context and how it integrates is still dumb. It's the crux of the whole mystery and yet those are nowhere near the same, no matter the context, no matter how it integrates.

>>22103490
>"Persona is a person" even with the full context and how it integrates is still dumb
Why do you believe this?

>>22103414
Don't worry about the "Erika is Yasu" thing. That poster is a known retard and/or troll who likes shitting up these threads. That said, if you actually don't know who Sayo Yausda is then yes, you should absolutely reread because you completely missed the point of at least one entire episode.

>>22103553
Because a persona isnt a person by their very defition and use????

>>22103580
You have to be genuinely autistic to not see how one could consider two personas who were basically constructed to be distinct as being distinct people. Especially when the very first scene introducing the red truth opens up the possibility of all kinds of wordplay.

>>22103618
Yes they can viewed as different people, but that doesnt mean they are. They can only be viewed as separate and distinct people when you lack the information that they arent. And the wordplay means you can be misled, but doesnt mean you can conflate two words as having the same meaning when they dont. Try reaching harder.

>>22103691
>They can only be viewed as separate and distinct people when you lack the information that they arent.
Only if you're afflicted with autism that forces you to take everything literally. I can somehow view them as both distinct and indistinct.
>having the same meaning when they dont
You can create a context where the practical distinction between "persona" and "person" is essentially meaningless. You don't need to be too intelligent to understand this.

>>22103561
argument fuck pls dont insult me without do it pls
i love u pls marry me but argument
i belive in everything i post
>>22103385
sayu yasuda is the name that genji and shannon give to kanon after they save her when her mother die by falling
she is the real beatrice the women that battler fallen in love and the real mastermind
>>22103414
george was envy because think that battler love shannon
so made an agreement with kanon
2 billion of yen in a credit card in exchange of his help
in this capitalist world money can made every magic become real even allow a forniture marry a master
>hat doesn’t make much sense to me. will rereading ep7 change this?
reread the ep 6
erika open the wardrobe and no one was here
kanon disappier
there is no method ofr disappier eccept kanon is erika
erika become kanon made battler exit and closed the door after this return erika and open the wardrobe!!!!
this is the only logical solution

>>22103405
>when it's almost ready
did you actually need to read till episode 6 to understand? that would explain a lot.

>>22103481
he was fired for sexual harassment in his old job
image be all the year in an isolated island full of big tiddy girls
EPSTEIN TIER

>>22103561
>you should absolutely reread
will do, thanks.
>>22103811
>sayu yasuda
I'm confused. is this a typo or are there multiple yasuda's? skimming through the ep7 theater made it seem like there were multiple copies of people running around. are you talking about that?
>genji and shannon give to kanon
wasn't shannon kanon's sister of about the same age? how would she give him a name when she was like 1-1.5 years old?
>there is no method ofr disappier eccept kanon is erika
this seems insanse though. wasn't there a rule about about how the culprit shouldn't appear in the middle of the story?

>>22103815
That's obviously not what I meant.
It's could be easily discerned way before that.

>>22103791
You tend to speak a lot without saying anything--like everyone else who tries to excuse it. Taking things literally has nothing to do with it.
If I say there are six people in a room in red, that means there are six people in a room. It'd work if they were multiple personalities, but merely pretending to be another person, doesnt make that person a distinct individual who can be counted as another. It's like saying there are a hundred people with the exact same face, the exact same voice, the exact same body--gottchya it's just one person who has acted in a ton of movies.

>>22103811
Do you actually believe Erika is one of Yasu's alternate personas? That makes no sense. Why would Erika not be able to solve the closet puzzle if she effectively WAS the solution to the closet puzzle?

>>22103867
erika is the answare to the question:
"what if instead of battler the detective is Beatrice?"
do you really belive that a mistery books lovers like her didnt wish to become a detective in real life!!!!
this was the gift of battler and lambda to her
make her a detective!!!
this is why she didnt see nothing in the wardrobe become the second person in the room was herself
her love for battler was so strong that destroy her dream of be a detective and solve a case for save him!!!!


THIS IS TRUE LOVE
ERIKA AND KANON ARE PERSONALITIES OF YASU

>>22103864
>Taking things literally has nothing to do with it.
>merely pretending to be another person
Lmao

>>22103847
>this seems insanse though. wasn't there a rule about about how the culprit shouldn't appear in the middle of the story?
kanon and erika are not the culprit just kanon help the real culprit battler

>wasn't shannon kanon's sister of about the same age? how would she give him a name when she was like 1-1.5 years old?

george is not a pedo shannon is older than battler and company

>I'm confused. is this a typo or are there multiple yasuda's? skimming through the ep7 theater made it seem like there were multiple copies of people running around. are you talking about that?

battler love big tits so image yasu shock when her tits doesent grown thanks inbreading and a fall from 20 m
so create kanon a male personality that explaine why there is no puberty for her

>>22103904
What then are Shannon and Kanon?
Sayo *is* merely pretending. However simplified or heartless an answer, that is the bare bones of what Sayo is doing.

>>22103864
>You tend to speak a lot without saying anything
Much like every single post you've made here.
>doesnt make that person a distinct individual who can be counted as another.
Why not (aside from autistic prescriptive definitions of the word "person")? Being shown scenes of conversations about their opposing goals (they literally duel over it) and outlooks on life is pretty clear symbolism for distinct individuals.

>>22103929
What would you consider a non-autistic definition of person then? Without going bullshit philosophical reasoning of a liberal arts degree major?

An individual can oppose themselves, have different perceptions of how they want to lead their life, have conflicting ideologies, etc...
"Is this who I want to be? Or is this?" "I'll put on this persona when I go out tonight... I don't feel like me as I am."
Since you're stuck on the autistic card, I'll throw it back. Thinking that a real human bean doing the above, would count as more than one real human bean, sounds pretty autistic.

>>22103920
>What then are Shannon and Kanon?
Ryuukishi explains it in EP6, I suggest giving that a read.
>merely
>simplified
Pick one. If you're simplifying something, it's already not "merely" pretending, unless you want to ignore everything but the bottommost layer of the meta-world for whatever reason.

>>22103890
It's stated in red during the EP6 finale that "three bodies" went into or out of the room, and it is then clarified that Erika, Kanon, and Battler are the three in question. How is this compatible with Erika and Kanon being the same person?

>>22103890
>>22103975
If you want the exact quote:
>Can I accept 'three people' to mean to the number of bodies? You're saying that three bodies went in or out of the room, right?
>[red]Of course. Three people--in other words, three bodies--went in or out. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left.[/red]

>>22103975
read this>>22102011
erika just take the head of kyrie for made battler mad

>>22103991
read this>>22103985

>>22103968
>An individual can oppose themselves, have different perceptions of how they want to lead their life, have conflicting ideologies, etc...
You can also create a fictional character to represent this and give it distinct form in your mind and as a distinct piece on the gameboard. This literally happens multiple times in the story with the exact same character. You'd have to be actually brain-damaged to not understand how (in Umineko) a summoned magical being is distinct from you (hence the distinct names, personalities and sprites), depsite being "just your imagination xD" and play-acting.

>>22104016
You'd have to be brain-damaged to think that the summoned magical beings being distinct individuals is part of the illusion you're supposed to see past to reach the reality of each game-board. Literally just killed your own argument.

>>22104024
>part of the illusion you're supposed to see past to reach the reality of each game-board
Thanks for outing yourself as an autist with zero reading comprehension.

>>22104032
When Shannon and Kanon are talking together in a scene, what is it really?
Please tell me oh wise one.
If I were to say, "There are two people talking in this room." But you look in the room and it's just one person standing there, you'd call me out on my bullshit.
You're side stepping everything and jumping to your trump card of "autistic". Maybe try actually explaining your viewpoint without sounding like you're full of shit, or without saying "hurr durr, didn't you read".

>>22104053
beginning of 5th game when they introduce erika
kanon and shannon toghether in the same room with erika the detective

>>22104067
That's in the meta. Try again.

>>22104068
yes because kanon is erika

>>22104053
>what is it really? Please tell me oh wise one.
Explaining things to fools is the one thing I'm bad at.
>But you look in the room and it's just one person standing there, you'd call me out on my bullshit.
No, I wouldn't. Because I'm not a detective, I don't suffer from terminal autism and I can understand metaphors and sensible definitions of terms which change with context and with the way a story is being presented.

>>22104101
>I'm not a detective.
"I don't like to think and take everything as it's told at face value."
Jesus, could have told me that sooner, I would have stopped replying then instead of now.

>>22103691
>Yes they can viewed as different people
That's the point of red truth, if you can frame it that way, you can state it it red, no matter how "factually" misleading it is

>>22104130
Neither are you, as you clearly don't have enough of an objective perspective to realize your own autism. Also, in what world are those two statements the same? Are you implying that EP5 Battler "didn't like to think and took everything at face value"?

>>22104135
By this I can assume Beatrice can say "2 x 2 = 40" in red to a child who doesn't know multiplication?
They can only be viwed as different people because thats the lie being told, believing a lie doesnt mean it can be told as truth.

>>22104053
in the anime george and battler see half of shannon death body
no thing can mistake for a body
so there is a 17th body
so kanon arent shannon

>>22104162
Your logic doesn't have love anon, I am sorry.

>>22104152
you must specify what you mean with the simble 2,x,4,0

To jump in here, the whole premise of the story being based upon discerning wordplay instead of genuine solving of a mystery cheapens the overall experience. There is a precedent in mystery stories for the narrator to be the killer and to omit information about their crime, but this is never done in a purposely confusing way.

As an example, it would be fine for a narrator to simply not narrate the time when they were committing a murder or disposing of evidence. It wouldn't be fine to have the narrator describe themself "putting their knife away" together with the victim, and then say that it was a euphemism for stabbing them.

In a mystery, some things do have to be taken at face value. If everything given is symbolic or misleading, the reader will have no understanding of the actual events in the story.

>>22104168
yes
george think that shannon fake her death
meanwhile he help kanon to kill the people who try to stop his love
george parents and battler

when natsuhi,jessica,george and battler was closed alone in the kinzo study george look outside the window waiting the kanon signal
and then magically battler find the right book for discover the meaning of the magic circle!!!!
george prepare everything

>>22104172
>some things do have to be taken at face value
Why would you take any red truth at face value when the story clearly shows you not to? You're essentially complaining about being misled by fuckery with the number of people when the story spends multiple episodes constantly doing just that.
>the reader will have no understanding of the actual events in the story
That's obviously false, given how there are people who understand the actual events of the story.

>>22104172
Sometimes I do feel like Ryukishi was trying too hard to be clever.

>>22104172
Which is why I was asking for a way to possibly explain the "A persona is a person" part of the mystery in a way as to elevate the mystery instead of deflate it. It comes across as cheap.

By all means, you can understand the mystery just fine and discern things easily if you just go, "Oh whatever, sure, a persona is a person." But having a way to explain that line of though--make it sound like a legitimate puzzle piece, would make it more enjoyable.

>>22104208
I'm pointing out that just because the story is written that way, that doesn't make it good. I think having some scenes with wordplay like that can be fun, but by the end, it should be clear exactly what the information is that the reader is supposed to take away. My problem is that one's understanding of the entire story depends on understanding a single piece of misleading wordplay. It makes the process of solving the mystery less satisfying, which is supposed to be the point of a mystery. The character drama and wordplay can be fun, but they can't interfere with the mystery to this extent.

>>22104219
I'm glad you understand.

>>22104215
I think so too. Another example of a time where wordplay is fine is the location of the gold. It isn't absolutely crucial to know exactly where the gold is hidden to understand the story. But it's fun to solve.

>>22104219
>aving a way to explain that line of though--make it sound like a legitimate puzzle piece
Can you give an example of what you mean by making it a puzzle piece?

>>22104219
The "persona is person" thing comes more from the thematic side than the actual detective side. We see Jessica and Kanon talking about living multiple lives under different names, the cousins discussing Maria's multiple personalities, and Maria's own view of Rosa having distinct "real mom"/"black witch" identities.
That said, Battler does bring up the possibility of characters having multiple identities a few times, like with Jessica in EP3. He's always wrong in the details, and so Beatrice can deny it in red, but she carefully avoids denying that the line of reasoning itself is valid.

>>22104238
>one's understanding of the entire story depends on understanding a single piece of misleading wordplay
It's actually the other way around, understanding this piece of misleading wordplay depends on understanding the story. If you didn't understand it by the answer arcs, you clearly didn't understand the story at that time.

>>22104219
>>22104238
Idk, what I love about the mystery in Umineko is how it makes all of the non-rational/love side help you solve the rational/mystery side, and the other way around, just like in interactions between humans. You could solve it using just one or the other, but you wouldn't get the full story.

>>22104269
From the thematic side I'm perfectly fine with it. It's from the detective side that I see fault. An example would be when in red you say "Six people entered the room" but it's actually four people and one who pretends to be two.

Thematically it works just fine, enjoyable from that aspect. But from solving a mystery, it just doesnt work. Usually a person with multiple personalities is a lame "gotchya" moment, but this is a gotchya to a gotchya.

>>22104274
This isn't true. The story does talk about the idea of multiple personalities and roleplaying, but to make the leap that this means that red truths can be used to describe people in this way just isn't that sound. It's what I meant by, at some point, the writer has to describe what they literally mean in order to understand things. Personally, I'm not a fan of the multiple personality aspect of the story for many reasons, but one of them is certainly that there's no direct confirmation of the ability to read the red text about numbers of people this way until after the end of the question arcs.

>/jp/ before george theory
post ange pussy
>/jp/ now
full autistic umineko discussion

i do it guys i save this board

>>22104301
I did really enjoy that aspect of the story initially, but as I came to realize the true nature of the events, it became very unsatisfying. It can be powerful to look at a fictional character and understand how they think and feel, but the way that the family members and servants that know about Yasu act just makes me think they're insane or stupid. At that point, it isn't satisfying anymore to understand.

>>22104310
>This isn't true.
>direct confirmation of the ability to read the red text in a certain way
I meant that someone who understood the story before the answer arcs would see this "misleading" wordplay and this reading of the red text as something obvious. Someone who didn't would need to understand the wordplay before they understand the story.

>>22104354
The problem I had was that I really wanted to figure out the story by looking primarily from the mystery perspective. Because of that, I focused more on logically figuring out who could or couldn't physically do certain actions. My goal was to narrow it down to the killer, then enjoy figuring out their motivations.

The problem is that, without direct confirmation, the idea of red text being used to refer to multiple people as one person is so absurd that I wouldn't be able to take it seriously. As they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and simply talking about the idea of people having multiple personalities isn't concrete enough to make the leap that the red text is used in that way. Again, it's why I've emphasized that at some point the writer has to get literal with what they want you to know. If you're focused on the mystery side, you NEED to have access to certain information to prevent you from coming to a wildly wrong assumption that just wastes your time and energy.

>>22104307
>But from solving a mystery, it just doesnt work.
Why are you defining solving a mystery as something completely detached from the story and themes? You could just solve a pure logic puzzle if you wanted that.

>>22104354
Wordplay is fine and to be expected. But there's a difference between an excited "ohhhhh" kind of misled, and a droopy eyed "oh..."

>>22104379
>I really wanted to figure out the story by looking primarily from the mystery perspective
>the idea of red text being used to refer to multiple people as one person is so absurd
It's not absurd if you don't engage in the kind of thinking where you ignore large parts of the story, including the parts the author goes on and on about the negative sides of this approach.

>>22104410
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I didn't ignore anything in the story, I just placed a greater significance on the parts that were more interesting to me. As >>22104301
put so well, you SHOULD be able to at least generally understand the story using just one side. When I was trying to solve the mystery, I was focusing more on the facts in order to give context to the fantasy. Because of this, I focused on concrete evidence first. Taking Shannon and Kanon not showing up together in front of a detective and sometimes talking about the idea of being a different person to mean that they MUST be the same person, and to use just that assumption to reinterpret the whole mystery, is a huge leap. It's even more absurd when you have to think about how contrived certain characters have to act to be okay with it.

>>22104452
shannon=kanon is like by trans from tumbrl
kanon=erika explaine everything and is the best

What's this about Gohda and sexual assault?

>>22104468
"explaine" this then >>22103985

>>22104485
kanon before retuning in the room take kyrie head
enter in the room, made battler exit,hide the head die and return erika
so erika open the wardrobe and it was empy
2 bodies in a room where she is alone
and battler disappier
erika give up even for her this is inexplicable

>>22104452
I was a disabled mysterytard too, and even I was somehow able to piece together clues to Beato's identity throughout the episodes. It finally clicked when I was reading EP5 and remembered the beach conversations (in EP3?) and the balcony conversation with Beato in EP4. So that would be the rational -> love side >>22104301 was talking about.

If your reaction to the wordplay isn't "That's obviously how 'people' work in this world", then you've already failed at understanding the story beforehand. The wordplay isn't your main clue to understanding the story, it's just a final wake-up call.

>>22104515
battler and erika=kanon are so cute together

>>22104515
That is not compatible with the red truth as stated.
>Only you and Kanon entered
This means not Kyrie, even if you're dumb enough to count a severed head as a "person".

>>22104534
yes best couple
their love story is the best
EriKantrice is the twin soul of battler
his waifu
but in all the best love story finish tragically!!!

>>22104544
a body is not a person
or maybe was erika to bring kyrie head when she enter for the first time in the room

in every case my theory is rigth

>>22104554
>Three people--in other words, three bodies--went in or out. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left.

>>22104549
I was just making fun of you at first, but your explanation for why erika didn't see kanon in the guest room made me believe more and more.
Related question: what do you think of toya and ikuko? Is ikuko a form of erika? Given her love for mystery (erika) and witches (beatrice).

>>22104521
The thing is, I never really cared that much about who Beato was for most of the story. Think of this what you will, but I actually thought that Beato was a separate person from the rest of the cast for some chunk of the story. The debate over how many people are actually on the island was what encouraged that idea, and it wasn't until a definite number was given that I concluded it had to be someone already there. (The reliance on this number was also what made the multiple personalities = people thing even more annoying.)

I wasn't that focused on understanding Beato because I wanted to know who was killing people. I figured, if she's not someone else in a disguise, then it's extremely likely someone else is the killer, so I'll narrow it down from there. Why are they killing? A personal motive? Cash? It doesn't matter, first comes who can even physically do it. Using the red text was also helpful because it cleared up misunderstandings. Using it to create misunderstandings by misleading just made it harder to understand what was actually happening.

In the end, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth because it feels like I read the story the "wrong" way, and I really would've appreciated it if the author did more to push me in the right direction. I wanted a story where people act reasonably and you can solve the mystery with just logic and understanding. I still love this series, it's one of my favorite ever, but I will always feel cheated because of how it seems I was lead down paths I wasn't supposed to go because the author didn't do well enough at blocking lines of reasoning that shouldn't be followed.

>>22104564
> Only you
simple you mean kyrie she cant see erika because kanon was erika

>>22104572
thanks you made me very happy
know that i made someone belive in the true
made me happy of all hours i spend here
>ikuko
for me ikuko is kanon
she survive but she live know that the person that she love forget her forever
very a sad story

>>22104588
My problem with the red truth is that it's laid out as a way for you to solve the mystery. While misleading, it's still absolute truth. It's laid out as grounds to make you submit to accepting magic.

When a persona is counted as a person, a lot of the red truth then becomes magic as grounds to make you accept magic. Thematic interpretation being used in the red truth undercuts its very purpose.

If six people entered a room, I expect six people in that room. Not five where one switches between two personas.

It works if you just go with it. Just say that sure, a persona counts as a person in this story. But just going with it deflates any enjoyment from actually thinking about solutions.

>>22104596
She's talking to Erika. "You" means Erika. This is not even close to being ambiguous. Erika and Kanon cannot be the same person.

>>22104642
I feel the same way. If the red truth is going to be used for wordplay like that, the information that the reader needs to know should be clearly communicated before the scene ends.

The reader is awash in an ocean, some information is there to help, but there are also black depths where things are uncertain. Because you're reading a story, the facts are limited to what the author can convey to you. We read a mystery story to be confounded, but also to eventually decipher the truth. Like the story says, there's a trust that has to exist between the reader and writer of a mystery story. I don't feel that Ryukishi upholds that trust because his mystery story is based too much on wordplay, rather than logic and analysis.

>>22104659
how can u be so sure that you is not a name or an alias of a person?
i know this argument is forced but not wrong
so try this:

erika say people is equal to number of bodies?
yes kyrie body +battler body + kanon\erika body=kanon,erika and battler
3=3
the names Erika, Battler, and Kanon can only be used by those people.
she say people not bodies
so bodies!=people
people=personality
bodies=humans

>>22104642
I think it's just kind of inevitable that it'd be some kind of semantic trick. Umineko gives you a lot of information and it can't really tell lies, so the only way to really deceive you is to make words mean something different from what you think they mean. Or make the real solution something so absurd you'd never think about it, but that'd feel even worse.

>>22104642
>Just say that sure, a persona counts as a person in this story.
That destroys the whole point of forcing autists to be less autistic in their thinking. Ryuukishi seems to enjoy doing that a lot in general.
>>22104698
>I don't feel that Ryukishi upholds that trust because his mystery story is based too much on wordplay
The trust is "There is a solution and you can find it", not "There is a solution and you can find it using method X while disregarding the main messages and the main character of the story". He actually goes even further and constantly restates word-for-word a method you can use to easily find the solution yourself.

>>22104700
>Only you and Kanon entered
Kyrie's name is Kyrie, not "you".

>>22104735
Ushiromiya (You)

>>22104735
respond to other arguments
kyrie after rudulph betralys create another personality called you

>>22104735
3 bodies enters
kyrie head didnt count as a person but count as a body
instead kanon didnt count as body but count as person

>>22104714
I don't think it had to be that way. If the story has to have the same culprit, but be told differently, here's how I'd do it:
I'd avoid talking about the number of people in red. I'd create scenarios where analysis would lead you to the conclusion that the only way the crime could be committed is if two people are secretly the same person in disguise. After that, it would be up to the reader to figure out who the double-person is. A big problem with looking at the mystery side is that there's absolutely nothing there to suggest that you have identity swapping. Why posit that two people are the same and pulling a trick when you could just assume that two people are working together? Especially since the official explanation involves both accomplices AND identity swapping? Keep it simple and eliminate one option.

>>22104723
I don't believe Umineko is solvable. Call me autistic if you want, but the story pointing toward an explanation doesn't directly confirm that it is the correct one. And to go even further, if you're saying that his answer is "use your heart to determine the truth," this falls flat because people act so absurdly in this story that one's understanding of human nature would rule out the official explanation.

>>22104588
I feel like he did a really good job in EP4 of blocking certain lines of reasoning/tendencies I had. I remember the scene/argument from pic related sometimes even to this day. Even if you read it "wrong", you don't have to define your enjoyment based on that. You can always reread parts of the story to see the "proper" way of solving it.

>>22104747
>>22104758
Ignoring the absurdity of Kyrie having an alternate personality named "you", why does Erika not know the solution to the logic error if she is Kanon?

>>22104767
>I don't believe Umineko is solvable.
You're provably wrong then.
>doesn't directly confirm that it is the correct one
This just feeds into the "forcing autists to think less autistically". A non-autist (or even a reformed autist) will be able to confirm the solution with absolute certainty just by thinking about the story.

>>22104767
>I'd avoid talking about the number of people in red. I'd create scenarios where analysis would lead you to the conclusion that the only way the crime could be committed is if two people are secretly the same person in disguise.
I think you're kind of glossing over the hard part here. I'm not sure how you would even show that two pepole must be the same person in disguise, especially without revealing who these two people are.

> I don't believe Umineko is solvable.
I think it definitely is, but you have to understand what Ryukishi is trying to convey with the story and go from there. If you just write down all the red truths and treat it like a logic puzzle you won't figure it out (at least not in the question arcs), but if you look at the parts that aren't red truths as well then I think you can figure it out by part 4.
The reason why few people will figure it out is because Ryukishi doesn't communicate clearly what he's really trying to do. All the mystery/rejecting witches/etc stuff is just as much of a misdirection as the fantasy stuff is.

>>22104786
look the image explaine everything

>>22104767
You had me up till this. Umineko is solvable. There are many many hints throughout that one person is actually two, it's extremely obvious upon reread how many hints were dropped. The problem is that the red truth makes you look for a different solution by calling personas people.

>>22104767
I agree it doesn't have a unique solution, but some alternate solutions are more reasonable than others.
>reasonable tier: Rosatrice manages to fit the red truths without too much trouble, and even some of the thematic bits align
>silly tier: Erika and Kanon are the same person because Kyrie secretly had an alternate personality named "you"
>crackpot tier: Beatrice secretly counts in base 16 so when she says there are at most "17" people on the island, she really means twenty-three.
>ascended tier: Beatrice is secretly speaking a constructed language of her own devising which merely coincidentally sounds like English/Japanese, so when she says "there are at most 17 people on the island" she's really saying "I ate 17 cupcakes yesterday".
The problem is that everything comes down to the inherently vague usage of natural language, which can be contorted as much as you like. If you want to avoid absurd but technically valid theories, you have to use themes and author expectations to some extent.

>>22104825
george theory or erikantrice thoery!!!
what of these 2 is a better name?

>>22104793
I might sound like a totally autistic retard right now, but...
Does "without love, it can't be seen" mean that Shannon = Kanon, the key piece to the puzzle, can only be realized if you pay more attention to the fantasy elements instead of only focusing on the logical mystery? Because if so, I may have been giving Ryukishi much less credit than he deserves.

>>22104770
I did find the long finale of EP4 where they rule out a bunch of theories very helpful.

>>22104822
You're right, I did treat it exactly like the logic puzzle you described.

>>22104850
Erikantrice theory. George theory just sounds like some failed spin-off of rosatrice.

>>22104786
admit that she is a personality of kanon mean deny his existence
whe battler and beato to that she disappier
erika belive that she was real
and pride make everyone fall

>>22104856
thanks anon!!!!
next thread i will do a nice post like this>>22080627
only with this new informations
that will made everyone belive !!!!

>>22104823
>>22104857
>Only you and Kanon entered the room
Are you still going with "you" being the name of Kyrie's alternate personality? If so, how is this red statement compatible with Erika entering the room? If not, how is this red statement compatible with Kyrie entering the room?

>>22104853
>the key piece to the puzzle, can only be realized if you pay more attention to the fantasy elements instead of only focusing on the logical mystery
Pretty much, it basically says so in plain text. Just look at any mention of the word "love" from as early as EP2.

make way for my new hot theory: Beatrice is actually Genji

That's right, you heard me. Genji has had the hots for Kinzo all these years, but was cucked by the og Beatrice. He secretly killed her to make way for his gay love, but to his suprise, Kinzo went after his own daughter!

Kinzo eventually went mad, there was no way Genji could make his love come true now. Unless! Genji crossdressed as Beatrice!! He finally got the hot chad Kinzo dick he so desired, but soon... Kinzo succumbed to old age poisoning.

Eventually, Genji saw Kinzo in Battler. They were so alike. Perhaps now he could make his love come true, but no, Battler had to have a falling out and not visit for several years. In the time alone, thinking of Battler all the time, he studied the works that Kinzo had left behind, and finished them. He wasn't able to revive Kinzo, but he was able to summon magical beings like Shannon and Kanon. They were merely his instruments.

>>22104872
It's really interesting that I'm only realizing it now. I can understand why you'd say the game is like a test to stop being autistic. I remember there were times when I was playing the story and I thought there might be something between Shannon and Kanon, and I'd say, "No, that's stupid, I'll focus on the logic more and find the truth." The story wants you to take the time to listen to what the characters feel and consider how it shapes their actions. It's ingenious how Ryukishi designed the story in a way that requires you to have some empathy in order to come to the right conclusion. I never would've thought of that, probably because I was a dumb teen with no social skills reading these stories many years ago. I really did treat the story as the puzzle box the guy described earlier, but it's designed so that if you ignore the emotional parts, you have a puzzle box without the last piece because you don't understand Shannon = Kanon due to no physical evidence. Really a brilliant idea.

>erikantrice thoery
Does your theory explain why erika is flat when battler love big tiddy?
Also, just to be sure. How many of the beings on this photo are the same?

>>22104659
I so not see a problem. Beato could Talk with Shannon and Kanon together. So what I see here is Beatrice trys to apply 1 name and 1 person on 1 body. Because we know Sayo is allowed to carry more names for each persona Beatrice could missed the fact Erika is just another persona (keep in mind this Beatrice was born from Battler's imagination). Erika is like Lion. She was placed on the gb by Bern to get her goals. Erika is just a replacement for Battler's rival place which became hollow after Beato became a sleeper.

>>22104890
All of them.

>>22104839
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittgenstein_on_Rules_and_Private_Language#The_rule-following_paradox

>>22104853
>You're right, I did treat it exactly like the logic puzzle you described.
I think Will pretty much criticizes the reader for doing that in the answer arcs. In hindsight it's kind of obvious that that's not the correct approach when you take a step back and consider Umineko as a whole work; of course you shouldn't be able to find the solution by disregarding 80% of the work.
It's easy to make this mistake since it's easy to think that how the main character (Battler) approaches the in-universe metafiction is also how the author (Ryukishi) intends you to approach the work as a whole, but that's not true. I think it'd have been better if there had been more clues that battler was "just not getting it" earlier in the story.

>Does "without love, it can't be seen" mean that Shannon = Kanon, the key piece to the puzzle, can only be realized if you pay more attention to the fantasy elements instead of only focusing on the logical mystery? Because if so, I may have been giving Ryukishi much less credit than he deserves.
It means multiple things. One of them is that you can't understand people's motives without understanding love, so basically what you were asking, yes. Another is clueing you in to the subjective nature of "reality"/observation in Umineko. That's a big factor both in the "technical" elements of solving the story (unreliable narrators, people being delusional etc) as well as in understanding the motivations/perspectives of the characters (e.g. Yasu, Maria, Ange)

>>22104890
erika is flat like kanon
the real body of yasu

Ange has a butthole...

>>22104907
>It means multiple things.
Specifically to put it more eloquently it means both "without [considering] love [the solution] can not be seen" as well as "without [feeling] love [their perspective] cannot be seen"

>>22104911
I bet you can't say it in red.

>>22104867
nope fuck u saw my draw
the head of kyrie cant itself kyrie is just a body
like kanon or erika are people not humans not bodies

3 bodies enter= kyrie head,battler's body,yasu's body
3 people enter=erika,kanon,battler

>>22104910
So is the cute blue hair just a wig?
also, answer the question please.

>>22104920
I always took it as "Without empathy, you can't understand their motive."

>>22104898
If it wasn't true, Beatrice wouldn't have been able to say it in red.

>>22104933
what he wrote is just a stronger form of this.

>>22104885
another mangagamer mossad egant try to change the focus from the true

ERIKANTRICE THEORY

genji is just a great kinzo friends
he was an accomplices of kanon an george
but a servant can be a culprit
will say it with red

>>22104957
>ERIKANTRICE THEORY

>>22104928
blue hair in anime mean black hair like kanon!!!
beatrice=erika=bernkastel
bern was the imaginary friends of yasu

beatrice=yasu culprit-game master
erika=yasu detective
kanon=yasu man
bernkastel=the imaginary enemy that try to solve yasu mistery

>>22104588
>Why are they killing? A personal motive? Cash? It doesn't matter, first comes who can even physically do it.
Look at what you've done. You've made Willard upset.

>>22104969
i like kanon with long hair
why she hide its in her shitty hat!!!!

>>22104933
It's more than just that because the characters in Umineko actually "see" (= interpret the world as) something very different because of love. Simplest example of this is Maria who sees Rosa as a good mother. Other examples are Yasu seeing battler as having made and then broken some important promise while Battler doesn't even remember it, Kinzo seeing his daughter as breeding material, Ange refusing to accept that her family are the culprits, Battler showing Ange the image of Kinzo as a good grandpa and trying to tell her that it doesn't matter what *really* happened etc.
To me this was what Umineko was really about.

>>22104927
>Three people--in other words, three bodies--went in or out.
"People" and "bodies" are being used interchangeably here. I know you don't understand English very well, but the "in other words" makes that clear to someone familiar with the language.

>>22104907
I think one clue to this is Kyrie's chessboard flipping. It's easy to look at this idea as purely a logical choice: to win, look at what your opponent wants to do and then counter it. But that's ignoring the emotional aspect: understanding your opponent. It's easy too because Kyrie is portrayed as a cold, detached person, but it's funny now that I think that that trait seems to run in the family.

Rudolph pissed off Battler by remarrying early, not honoring his mother's memory.
Kyrie and Ange are in general very cold.
Battler appears the most warm out of the cast, but we also know that he ran away from his whole family and spends most of his time reading books. And don't forget the implication that Battler's parents are the ones that would kill everyone else.

He starts out by focusing totally on denying magic and not focusing on the culprit, which is totally wrong, but even later he only makes it halfway by trying to deny that any of his friends are killers. Beato doesn't want him to protect her, she wants him to understand why she feels the way she does.

The nature of reality is also an interesting point I hadn't considered.

>>22104985
Sorry for being retarded, Will. I admit that EP7 flew over my head in some ways because I was just mad about Shkannon.

>>22104992
This also ties in literally into the fantasy aspects of the story. On a basic level, they're showing you a symbolic representation of an event and asking you to consider who would view it that way and why. Ryukishi is trying to train you to look at all of the non-mystery segments this way with more forceful examples. Maybe it would've been better if he was more direct in explaining this.

>>22105020
Kanon is dead. Among the five people in Kyrie's group
for red true shannon and kanon are person so have differents bodies

>>22105061
>Kanon is dead.
What?

>>22105096
People die when they are killed.

>>22104992
The other people in my hotel room want to sleep so I'll give some more comments here before I forget:

At the end of the day Umineko is really about Ange. Well it's about a lot of things by virtue of being really long but the central message is framed in terms of Ange at the end. Ange is an example of not having love, she didn't love Eva and so couldn't "see" that she was innocent. In Umineko "love" is basically synonymous with having faith that someone is good and not inspecting the truth too closely.
At the end of the VN it's basically a battle between Battler's and Erika's ideals over the soul of Ange. Erika also doesn't have love, that's why she's an intellectual rapist, she doens't have trust in people because of what happened with her ex. In the end Ange becomes happy if she realizes that she has nothing to gain from trying to find out the "real" truth and is better off if she just chooses to believe that her family was good and innocent.

I think it's really skillful how Ryukishi handled Battler. First he makes you sympathize with Battler by withholding information from both the reader and Battler. Then he makes battler switch sides completely by giving him the missing information (the "golden truth"), but he doesn't give it to the reader. This really forces you as reader to consider the other side and really think about what's going on, not just go along with the main character. Also, he adds characters like Willard and the goats to basically insult the reader to their face.

I think on some level Ryukishi actually *meant* for people to fail to solve it before the answer arcs. You can definitely solve it, but you have to be a VERY critical reader and think hard about the story on several meta-levels. You can't figure it out by only considering the in-universe events and meta-world, you also have to move *up* through meta-levels to the real world and think about why Ryukishi would write things in the way he did.

I think to really understand everything you have to consider at least the following meta-levels:
* What actually happened on Rokkenjima
* The stories of the individual chapters
* The meta-world
* Ange's interpretation of everything
* Ryukishi's intention when writing all of the above

>>22105058
>Battler appears the most warm out of the cast
Yes, but Battler is actually one of the coldest characters of the cast. He just hides behind jokes and doesn't really understand anyone's feelings
>The nature of reality is also an interesting point I hadn't considered.
I think it's pretty weird that people miss this angle, since even on the surface of things Umineko is all about meta-realities, kakera and "what really happened on Rokkenjima" and so on.

>Maybe it would've been better if he was more direct in explaining this.
I do think that it's hard to figure out what he's thinking but I also think it's kind of intentional. As I said in >>22105116 I think part of it is that Ryukishi is intentionally challenging you as a reader.

Just like how Beatrice challenges Battler to find out what the fuck she's going on about, Ryukishi challenges you to find out what the fuck he's going on about.

>>22105116
>>22105140
Thanks for walking this through with me, you've changed my understanding of the story and made me love it again. I also found your commentary on Ange really interesting. It makes me understand her more, as well as what the trick ending meant, as I found that confusing.

>>22105116
Is it bad if I sympathized more with Erika than Battler in EP8? The whole idea of choosing to believe something just because it makes you happy and "not inspecting the truth too closely" seems reprehensible to me.

I heard it in red, there were actually two Gollums that fell into the volcano in Return of the King!!!

But we only saw one... what does it mean? C-Could it be, that Gollum had another persona? Or personality? GAH! Tolkien! You witch!

>>22105245
Maybe you're meant to take the middle ground. Erika only sees people as game pieces and doesn't care about them at all. Battler now has embraced Beato's magic fully, and will only share information that makes Ange happy.

The story is about treating anyone, even a murderer, with dignity, empathy, and respect. Even if someone on the island is a murderer, they still had a good side to them. They're human. They have hopes and dreams. Especially because they're family, Battler wants Ange to remember their good side.

A similar idea is explored in EP6 of Higurashi. You should always turn to your friends for help if you need it, but you should also have some privacy. You don't need to open up and share every dark secret and bad thing you've ever done. Focus on having a happy, functional relationship first.

>>22105300
I was reading Ryukishi's interview and this seemed relevant so I wanted to add it.

>The scene at the beach was especially harsh. And during EP7, during the scene with the letters I also thought, “Damn Battler, you’re bad!”.
>There are many ways to think about this scene though, maybe there was no bad intent and they just forgot, maybe George decided not to hand the letter over. I won’t say what’s the truth, but I want you to think of different possibilities.
>So it’s about whether we want Battler or George to be the bad guy, right?!
>There’s more. Maybe Kyrie told him “Write to all of your cousins”, so he just wrote to his cousins, there are many ways to think about it. A riddle like that is a way of, if I had to say it with Bernkastel’s words, my way of trying to make you enjoy parallel worlds. At the core it is about whether the player wants to believe in Battler or George. Maybe it’s just about for whom of them you have love. This is what Ange was told about during EP7 and 8, no matter what truths exist, in the end there is only the one in the heart of the person approaching it. That’s because in this world there are so many truths that can only be guessed. It’s always about how the person approaching it thinks about it, whether he has a heart for it or not, that is what changes the truth.

Thanks to the mystery anon for riddles 2 years ago, time really flies huh. Your riddles kept me awake at long hours, cheers in seagulls m8.

*AHEM*
FUCK WITCHES
FUCK MAGIC
AND FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK ASSASSINS

I'm intrigued by Ciconia's demo. It was very different to Higurashi and Umineko, and seemed more like the impression I have from what I've seen of RGD (which I haven't read yet). But the game is labeled as WTC5, and there's already hints at connections to the previous titles.

Do you expect that this will just be a radically different story? Or is this the set up for further chapters to use as a base to deconstruct and make a mystery off of?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1153213280866844674

edgy

>>22106220
The streak will end soon battlercuck

>>22106245
I THINK BATTLER SUCKS

>>22105096
red true of the 4th game
so because a people mean body
shannon and kanon must have a body

>>22105687
erikanontrice is the true
>>22106230
simple moefag clichè story
if all game is like the demo ryukishi die

>>22106449
Error. Because of knox's laws, how can the detective be the culprit? Erika is Berkansel, the player's, piece. She is the detective of game 5. Episode 5 follows Knox's laws.

>>22106503
Erika didnt is the culprit
Kanon yes

Or maybe yasu is not the culprit in the 5th game

>>22106511
But, technically , Erika and Kanon would count as the same entity. If Erika is included among the 17 people, then she and kanon count as the same entity. If yasu is not the culprit of game five, then present an alternate theory.

>>22106503
Erika belive that she is the detectice ,the bernkastel piece
But when she become kanon bern cant control her
This is why she die
She want be real so much and when she understand that the only ppssible solution for the kanon disappier is that she is kanon
She prefer lose instead of addimt the true
Because she is just the detective fantasy of yasu

ERIKANTRICE IS THE TRUE

>>22106529
Battler(or george i am not sure) and kanon plan
Battler commit the murders and kanon under the name erika will solve them to accuse natsuhi
So yes kanon is an accomplices but not the real culprit because didnt kill anyone

>>22106533
So then are you saying game five has no true detective? Or... Could it be there is another detective?

Also I want to say ahead of time, I'm not trying to completely discredit your theory. Frankly I'm open to all umineko theories. I just enjoy forcing peoplel to fight that their theories are at least plausible.

>>22106547
Tell me both how Battler or george could do it, individually.

>>22106552
Nah erika is the detective in the 5th game but because is kanon plan be it
For revenge to natsuhi the person who destroy her body
Geprge or battler cpmmit the murders and made like natsuhi do it
So erika/kanon can accuse her and destroy the thing that natsuhi love more reputation!!!

>>22106559
tthe letter was places by erika
erika become kanon put the letter and knock
escape and return erika

>>22106559
george kill the people in the cousine room
>After 24:00, Erika was with Nanjo the whole time until 3:00 AM.
genji is an accomplices erika become kanon and kidnapp krauss
after this george kill krauss and his father and kill himself

>>22106623
nanjo not genji sorry

>>22106559
it's funny that there arent a red truth about kanon position during the first twilight

>>22106600
>>22106623
And what of the disappearing bodies?

>>22106642
simple the cousins fake their deaths
george: hey guys erika is so bored make her have fun by creating a fake murder case
after the discover george make them moved and kills them
kill his father and krauss and kill himself

>>22106652
Hm.. That's actually not that bad. So who would be in on the whole Erika = Kanon thing? That is to say, list the maximum amount of people,

>>22106662
kanon and george are the culprits in every game(kanon not in the 5th the 6th is a battlers game so didnt count)
the accomplices are genji(loyalty) nanjo and kusamawa(for bank money of the 4th game)

with this theory in every game the culprit and accomplices are the same
symmetry not
>muh everyone is the culprit

Satoko a literal kidloli.

>>22106662
yasu have different personalitybut in the game she is only

kanon=the male that yasu want to be
erika=the detective that yasu want to be

>>22106674
See like the other guy above, I thought you were full of shit before I talked to you. Now I kind of buy it. Erika's backstory about having a boyfriend who betrayed her could be an allegory about Yasu's feelings towards battler.

So final question. Because I believe in without love it cannot be seen, how did Yasu fall for battler if Shanon is not am yasu personality.

>>22106702
because yasu is not a man she was a woman
when battler arrive at island 6 years ago
he find a timid girl that only read mistery books
battler was to exited to finnalliy find someone to speak about mistery books and soon they fallen in love each others!!!
but time pass fast and battler must go so battler say to her that he will send letter but he cant use yasu name
kinzo was alive if he or genji discover it there will be trouble!!!!
so make an agreement with shannon
battler send letter to shannon and her will give its to yasu!!!
but when george find the letters thinking was for shannon destroy it
and everything go wrong

>>22106708
when yasu grow she notice that her tits doesent grown
battler always like big tits
maybe she told a battler that when her body is developed fighter he can touch her tits

but this never happening so she think that battler didnt contact her for the tits so create a male personality kanon

>>22106708
You've convinced me that it's plausible, and now that you've explained it i quite like your theory. Be proud of the truth you've come to. How long did it take to craft?

>>22106713
2 years
i originnally think that its impossible that kanon is shannon
so i think who is of this 2 yasu?
i choice kanon because shannon must die in the first twilight of first game for make them different person!!!!
but i cant explaine everything with only kanon
because i belive that accomplices (genji,nanjo and kumasawa) cant kill people!!!!
So i discover rosatrice a complete piece of shit
eccept for one thing
george
george motivation and history was perfect
fit incredibily
and in one second with kanon and george the first 4 games can be solved with the same culprit!!!!
so i post it on /jp/ and i was insult because i can explaine the 6th game
this make me lose hope and i left umineko
but recentrly i reread it and hope return i post again
and finnally i find the miss piece of the puzzle
erika=kanon
with this everything now fit
everthing now can be explained with the same culprit

>>22106725
>two years
I think I remember you. I remember being one of those guys who gave you shit, sadly. I can respect how much dedication you put into it, however. It really seems like a theory made out of love for the source material.

>>22106745
nothing 2 years ago i say even battler's weed for explaine kinzo in the 4th game
i deserve what didnt kill you made you stronger
this make me think think and think until i discover the final true of umineko:
KANON=ERIKA

>>22106745
https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/174001913/#174073172
this i the first place where i post my theory an anon say to me to go on /jp/