/jp/ - Otaku Culture

What sort of powers does Len even have? I thought all she could really do is mess with your dreams while you sleep.

>>1980200

What an accurate chart of the Nasuverse's powerlevels.

>>1980200
I wonder how they ranked the Types, since we have no info in them.

>>1980208
She has the same abilities as her creator, who could do a lot of dangerous stuff involving the mind. She's not just a dream demon.

Also, nobody is going to fall for this copypasta...

... right?

>>1980208
Hey.

>>1980208

Ice affinity and some illusion Magecraft.

>>1980214
Do they ever go into detail other than that vague statement you just said?

>>1980213

Notes you moron. Read it.

More like
Kohaku manipulates everyone into killing each other

>>1980223
The notes mention how types rank in-between themselves?
Never saw that anywhere or anyone mentioned it before.

>>1980214

>nobody is going to fall for this copypasta...

I'd say that isn't a very good bet with Type-Moon fans.

>>1980219

Kagetsu Tohya displays her master as an extremely skilled hypnotist, and she has many of his abilities, though a lesser Magic Circuit. Melty Blood also shows that she's capable of Ice thaumaturgy.

DEMONBANE WOULD DEFEAT THEM ALL IN 2 SECONDS, AT THE SAME TIME.

>>1980219
Not really. Just that her creator helped I think Arcueid to kill the original Einnashe, a DAA who was quite difficult to kill.

>>1980218
If you go by Melty Blood, which is decidedly non-canon for Re-act onwards, where Ren shows up.

>>1980230
The actual fans who have carefully read the material should be the ones who just ignore it...
Right guys?
Guys?

>>1980228
>Son Goku=Superman
not rly

>>1980229

"Notes," you know, Nasu's first story ever. With Gun God and Ado Edem and such?

Yeah, we get accounts of their varying powers in it.

W-wait, Ryougi beat Fujino, so shouldn't she be...

FUCK, IT'S LIKE A VORTEX OF FUCKING FUCK.

>>1980237
I'm just here to tell you that we skip these threads. Bye.

Tsukihime 2 will fuck everything up..

>>1980249
Although I have to admit laughing at the pasta itself, as some of it is quite hilarious, this is what real Type-Moon fans do.

>>1980243
I know what notes are.

But I do not see anywheer something letting us have a clear ranking.
If you know about that, elaborate.

Either way, the initial list is wrong on so many ways, it doesn't matter.

>>1980248
Don't try to make sense.

>>1980261
>Either way, the initial list is wrong on so many ways, it doesn't matter.

That's the whole point. It was created for nothing other than wankery and trolling. It's used by people for the sole purpose of trolling Type-Moon threads and then blaming the trolling on Type-Moon fans themselves.

>>1980200
lolololololololololol

>>1980233
>extremely skilled hypnotist

Saber beat Angra Mainyu, so she is stronger!

Why is Gun God so powerful? As far as I know, he's just a regular human. The Black Barrel only gives him an advantage vs. Types and A-liners and I'm sure that many of the other characters could slaughter him.

>>1980276
He fucks a Type loli.

Ciel > ORT > Type Jupiter > Type Saturn = Crimson Moon > Type Pluto > Type Venus > Primate Murder > Original Roa > Angra Mainyu > Gun God (Black Barrel) = Ado Edem > Zelretch > Counter Guardian Archer > Dark Sakura = Gilgamesh = Arcueid > Dark Saber > Lancelot = Saber > 5th Berserker = Roa Elesia > Dark Berserker > 4th Caster > 5th Lancer > 4th Lancer = 5th Caster > 4th Rider > 5th Rider > Nrvnqsr = Clairvoyant Fujino = Kurogiri > Archer = 5th Assassin = 4th Assassin > Aoko = Kouma = Barthomeloi = Kojirou = "Ryougi Shiki" = Soren Araya > Touko = El-Melloi = Night of Wallachia > Sion Tatari = Melty Blood Satsuki = R.Shiki = Akiha = Fujino = 18th Roa > SHIKI = Arba (potentially) = Heaven’s Feel Shirou = Kiri > Nanaya = Reinforced Kuzuki = Sion = UBW Shirou = Waver = Bazett > Avenger = Rin = Kotomine = Zouken = Luvia > Kiritsugu = Irisviel > Maiya = Arba (usually) = Leysritt = Tsukihime Satsuki = Lio = Avalon Shirou = Sakura = Ilya = Kariya = Len > Kirie = Caren = Meruka > The Dead = Possessed Corpse = Azaka = Misayo = Dragon Tooth Warrior = Fuji-nee > Fake Shiki > Shinji = Ryuunosuke = Tomoe = Gun God (unequipped) = Hisui = Kohaku

Fixed.

>>1980259
>real
okay.

>>1980276

And ever character that has Magic Circuits ever.

>>1980275

Stop talking out of your ass.

>>1980284

So pretty much everyone, right?

I'm sure the projectile could kill humans. Unless it doesn't shoot a projectile.

>>1980291
He is pretty much like Shiki(One hit kill, die easily), only he has a gun instead of going with a knife at close range.

>>1980236
>>If you go by Melty Blood, which is decidedly non-canon for Re-act onwards, where Ren shows up.

Are you fucking stupid?

>>1980297

>white ren

>stupid

I'd say yes.

>>1980296

Not to mention it's a gun modified to be a sniper rifle and magic-sense probably can't detect it as it's the exact fucking opposite of magic.

Gun God = Type-Moon Exterminator.

>Kohaku = Hisui
I call it bullshit. Kohaku, even without tatari's influence, is extremely intelligent and has the WILLPOWER granted by her past of restless rape.

I really love how White Ren just comes in and starts talking about how "wrong" the chart is while not even giving an example of WHY it's wrong.

This is the chart that everyone always says goes specifically by "who would most likely kill the other regardless of situational constraints." In that area the chart perform its purpose perfectly.

How did Black Barrel ever come to be? Did Gun God make it in a cave from a bunch of scraps?

>>1980313
Well, they're probably just going by "power" here.

One question: why is UBW Shirou so low?

He has full control of a Reality Marble at that point.

>>1980281

Oh Ciel, you're so shit.

>>1980317
Apart from the fact that it includes characters we have nearly NO idea what their scope of power is (types, certain Dead Apostles , Primate Murder etc), confusing firepower or energy supply with actual prowess and some very GLARING mistakes (like Black Berserker ranking higher than normal one for example)?

>>1980322

Atlas made it from various top-tier Magi's research.

>>1980297
From what you quoted, you have some disagreement with what I said, but you don't specify what it is, so I'll just answer "No, I'm not."

>>1980285
>>1980317
I guess the words "unofficial power rankings" don't tip you in that it's not official in any sense. It wasn't created by trolls, but it is almost exclusively used by them, now. And a lot of it is speculation and contestable opinionmongering.

Nobody considers it gospel truth.

>>1980330
He needs an extra source of mana to activate it (like from Rin)

>>1980322

It's a weapon made from the unnamed 5th True Element, which is the natural enemy of the 5th Theoretical Element, which is better known as Magic.
Nobody knows who made it, but it's believed to be in the possession of the Church at the time of Tsukihime. (Arc thinks Ciel has it for at least a moment, IIRC.)
Also, Sion has a weapon called "Black Barrel Replica", a considerably inferior imitation that's a pistol instead of a rifle.

Ha! I knew that Kiri > Kiritsugu, I argued for 1 hour on /a/ last time with some fucker that just kept going HURRR "mind of steel" he can't lose.

>>1980330
UBW Shirou has reality marble but not the mana to use it he has to borrow rins mana

>>1980345
>>1980351

But he HAS a contract with Rin ongoing past UBW, and she'd have mana to spare in the True end at least.

That's a Reality Marble activation whenever he feels like it, and he can sustain it for however long Rin can supply.

>>1980346

But how does Sion have Black Barrel Replica if Black Barrel isn't made until the ridiculously faraway future?

>>1980312
Too bad Gun God is still a completely normal human, making him easily killed by more than half of the chart given. The Black Barrel only gives an attack boost, so he'd be fucked against pretty much anything.

Ado Edem should be up among the Types, since he killed at least two of them without ambushing (you can't ambush something when your weapon is just as large as the target).

Also, hasn't Nasu explicitly stated that the 4th Lancer is superior to the 5th Lancer?

Kishima Kouma should be higher, because he's been stated to be capable of fighting average servants. In terms of combat, the Assassin class is average to below-average.

>>1980364
Yes, cause RIn has no other purpose then keeping this connection for the rest of her life and have him leech, just so he can cast UBW again...

>>1980339
>>Black Berserker ranking higher than normal one for example

...What?

>>Primate Murder

We know that it takes seven Counter Guardians to restrain it while it takes the entire Burial Agency plus Arcueid to take down the Original Roa. That's why it's higher than Roa but lower than the Types, which are automatically greater in strength.

>>1980370

Too bad the whole chart can be killed by a mere human. They can all easily die with one shot.

>>1980364
She complained that it took a lot of her mana to power it, so I doubt she'd be able/willing to lend him power very often
Plus half the time she's too tsun-tsun to help him

>>1980365
Notes happens in the past.

>>1980379

The fuck are you talking about?

thankyou for creating a 2D troll thread

>>1980373
And yet Primate is Atrouge's pet.
Of course, you can say 'It following her doesn't make him weaker', but you should get the point:

Type Moon is ability driven, raw power is much less important.
The fact that two human characters can KILL almost everything on the list makes it pointless.

>>1980377
>never again

;_; Poor Shirou. They end up together, but he never gets any ever again.

>>1980365

It's made in ancient times.
Gun God just finds it again.
And utilizes it to MAXIMUM efficiency against Type-Venus.

>>1980370

>Too bad Gun God is still a completely normal human, making him easily killed by more than half of the chart given.

Most enemies wouldn't expect a PYUUNIE HYUUMAN BULLAT to break through their ultimate magical armor.
Either way, Godo is a sniper. He'd shoot from a massive distance and take their head off.
Even regardless, the destruction capability of Black Barrel is top-tier even ignoring everyone else.

>The Black Barrel only gives an attack boost, so he'd be fucked against pretty much anything.

>>1980398
he does in hollow ataraxia

>>1980399

I see. So Black Barrel is made in the past but Notes takes place in the future.

>OP picture screams "I'M A TROLL"
>Exact same OP of another thread
>60 posts and 8 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

Goddamn you people are retards.

>>1980330

UBW is powerful, but only an annoyance for every Servant besides Gilgamesh, for whom it is the greatest weakness.

>>1980344

Just because Melty Blood is only canon in one route doesn't mean Len's powers are different there then anywhere else, bro.

>>1980370
>>>Also, hasn't Nasu explicitly stated that the 4th Lancer is superior to the 5th Lancer?

In the 5th War, yes, but Cu Cuchulain summoned by a capable Master has much higher stats than 4th Lancer is capable of ever obtaining naturally.

>>1980403
And he even brings her breakfast in bed the next morning

>>1980406

Yep.

Godo digs it up after Type-Jupiter has catastrophic existence failure when Ado Haxmonster cut it in two.
Which blew up Godo's home.
Home continent.

>>1980399
So being a 'haxmonster', an ultimate 'kill the opponent' character ranks lower from the beings he kills cause he has lower 'overall power' (like, cannot breath underwater or in space). In a battle ranking.
Brilliant logic.

>>1980410
I can see Archer probably beating Caster and both Assassins with UBW

>>1980411

Who gives a shit about the OPs original intentions? Talking about that chart is always fun.

>>1980410

>UBW is powerful, but only an annoyance for every Servant besides Gilgamesh, for whom it is the greatest weakness.

Yeah, but UBW Shirou is out on the same tier as Sion, Kuzuki, Nanaya, and Bazett.
Seriously. Shirou was matching Kuzuki with projection (albeit killing himself with it); he would annihilate him in the world of infinite swords.

>>1980403
>>1980412
...That's full of win and d'aawwwww.

F/HA PATCH WHEN?!

>>1980399
Everything you said about Gun God is irrelevant. There is no point in making comparisons if you place a character in such a position that they have the obvious advantage, such as sniping and being unknown to the enemy. These charts are to gauge overall combat ability on equal ground. In this same manner, Nanaya Shiki is restrained to mid tier or so because of the fact that his stats are so low.

He still needs to be able to shoot and hit the enemy. He has human limitations, so he can't even aim properly at likely half of the chart.

Except for the fact that Ado Edem's sword is stated to work in the same manner as Gilgamesh's Ea, tearing apart reality and all that jazz. The blue shit flowing off Slash Emperor is similar to the red crazy shit that Ea shoots. It cuts EVERYTHING, so yes he probably should be first. He's also a Knight Arm user, which are as a baseline equal to the Angels of the A-Ray species. Since he's the greatest Knight Arm user, his stats are almost certainly beyond that level. Going by the picture we have of him, he can also fly.

>>1980430
>>1980429

>>1980430
Probably 2010 or 2011
Also pajama Rin is very moe

>>1980416

Again, Ado Edem should be at the top in regards to the "kill the enemy" perspective that it should be.

But for the purposes of POWERLEVELS, Ado Edem can't explode a continent like Type-Jupiter or rain evil death like Type-Saturn.

...

...

Actually, I lied.
He CAN do that, because SLASH EMPEROR can extend infinitely.

FUCKING ADO EDEM

>>1980438
Absolutely. Especially when she's just stolen all the bread to make sandwiches, and you walk in to accuse her but she's too busy sleeping and being cute to be mad at...

>>1980441
Ado Edem is Fucking IDEON SWORD.
And since nothing in TM is like Ideon Gun (no, Black Barrel isn't), he is the top monster.

>>1980438
...Those cats are staring at me.

>>1980436
>The blue shit flowing off Slash Emperor
awesome way to show you're talking out of your ass-- if you had read the source material, you'd know the "blue shit" is the sky, which Slash Emperor manifests slashing at the red umbrella.

>>1980448
my nutbladder

>>1980436
>>Except for the fact that Ado Edem's sword is stated to work in the same manner as Gilgamesh's Ea, tearing apart reality and all that jazz. The blue shit flowing off Slash Emperor is similar to the red crazy shit that Ea shoots. It cuts EVERYTHING, so yes he probably should be first.

No.

>>1980436

Fine.

Another fact about Black Barrel: it apparently kills on contact. (This is why nobody but Godo can WIELD it, as they die.)
So he can just bat his foes with the gun and they'll die.
Or hell, use the gun as a shield. Maybe he can pull off the luck Shirou always has.

Still, he only needs one shot, which is a point and fire deal. It would work on everyone up to the Servants, who should be fast enough to dodge a bullet.

>>1980313
As in the will to kill, correct?

>>1980463
Yeah, I had to stop after this scene so I could go fap to thoughts of 'waking her up'.

i've always wondered. Why is Aoko so low... i mean, she's a top tier magus with one of the five sorceries just like Zelretch.

is it just because we don't know the nature of her sorcery?

>>1980459
It is the physical manifestation of the ability, in lieu of there being any actual energy generated. Just like the blast from Ea is altered air/etc from the environment, so too is the sky a direct result of Slash Emperor.

>>1980483

>Why is Aoko so low

weaksauce

>>1980484
>>the sky a direct result of Slash Emperor.

ahahah oh wow

>>1980482

>>1980483
Yes.
Since we speculate anyway, might as well put Sugoi Sugoi low.

>>1980484

It never mentions any reality-altering ability of the sort. Seriously, Ado Edem does not work that way and never has.

>>1980491
ok, i'll admit she's the highest tier 'human' on that list with a few exceptions, but Zelretch is so much higher. Is that cus he's a DAA as well as Sorcerer?

I have no idea what that guy is going on about, but Slash Emperor DOES cut everything.

This is exactly WHY the Blood Sky (which is strong enough magic to stop 2 Types in their tracks) is being cut around it.

It's like the Murasame on magic steroids.

>>1980507

Because we don't know what Aoko's sorcery is, we don't know if it compares to the HOLY FUCK WHAT that is Kaleidoscope.

>>1980499
that's what i figured. Makes sense. Once Witch on the Holy Night comes out, we might be able to rank up Ms. Blue.

>>1980495
God dammit, why can't people just put the source in the filename?

...Or is this a cleverly disguised plot to get somebody else to ask for a source, so you can find out yourself?

>>1980505
Because that 1-2 pages from the material is the only thing that's ever been said about Ado Edem, amirite?

>>1980483

We DO know the nature of her abilities despite what the others are saying, and she's not that low, either. She's weaker than a Servant, of course, but she's equal to top Mages such as Barthomeloi and Soren Araya. Actress Again almost confirms that her Magic is Time Travel, but in combat it's not much use anyway. Her typical Magecraft is luminescent beams which for all intents and purposes are about equal to the 18th Roa's lightning, but she's got amazing Prana efficiency and a massive, gigantic Magic Circuit of incredible quality.

>>1980549

>luminescent beams

Blue lasers

>>1980514
Show me, show you... fuck, rewatching.

>>1980549
While we're on the Aozakis, what exactly is the deal with Touko? Why the hell does she have a seal order? I know she's pretty high tier, and i know some of it will be answered (hopefully) in KnK 5 (the parts that aren't translated yet but in the movie) - but like, what the fuck did she do to get on the Association's bad side.

Also, why so bitter orange?

>>1980549

>her Magic is Time Travel, but in combat it's not much use anyway.

"Oh fuck I'm gonna die" *VWORP* "HEY LET'S TALK THIS OVER I'M SURE YOU'RE A SUGOI PERSON"

>>1980557
...Don't you mean rereading?

>>1980570
Uh, no...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz-mJed_bP0

>>1980557
>>>/rs/show+me+show+you

....Fuck.

Adam > Not Ran > Yami no Yami > Lilith >>>>> ORT

The picture in >>1980228 does not lie.

>>1980592

>Adam

Can Shiki kill angels?

>>1980592

It lies at "Yukari Yakumo > ORT".

Types are lifeforms that exist without Boundaries and Borders.
ORT is immune to Yukari's powers, and would annihilate her.

>>1980557
>>>/rs/show+me+show+you

....Fuck.

>>1980567

Fucking with the time stream is apparently harshly looked down upon. She also says that she's never used it in that fashion to Dust of Osiris, but the latter doesn't like her interference anyway because she could probably screw with the time stream, but doesn't.

>>1980566

Aoko and Touko's grandfather trained the latter in Thaumaturgy very harshly and in isolation, but decided to pass on the 5th True Magic to Aoko. This made Touko angry. Touko was high ranking in the Association and met Soren Araya, who she fell in love with, but Aoko "stole" him away. Then Touko snapped. The craziness that followed should be ut in Mahou Tsukai No Yoru, but whatever the case, Touko didn't really care about having to leave because she noticed that if she remained with the Association she would never be able to leave later, although there was a great chance of her reaching the highest levels of the place anyway.

>>1980606
Though ORT can use a Reality Marble, and that's by definition a border.

oh god why am I replying to this shit I don't even

>>1980587
Well, now I'm confused as fuck. I take it this means you don't know what >>1980495 is from?

>>1980622

No, ORT does not use a Reality Marble.

The phenomena of "Crystal Valley" is best equated to what earth magicians know as a "Reality Marble", but it is not the same thing.

Nasuverse is mid-low tier in the overall power level in fiction

Why can't people just get over it

>>1980623
It was a joke, somebody posted kikkoman and so I sang fight! kikkoman song. Dammit, it is pretty sad that nobody knows about the kikkoman song.

>>1980622

Crystal Valley isn't a Reality Marble or an Innate Bounded Field, it's a "natural" (though completely alien to our planet) effect conducive to ORT.

>>1980606
So types have no beginning, and no end? They exist equally everywhere, and at every time? Everything everywhere is wholly part of every type?

>112 posts and 16 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

>>1980642
Show us your tits, catgirl!Rin.

It's okay if you don't, I've got Wanko installed and Kuu's in heat.

you forgot to mention alpha centauri mages > ORT

you don't fuck with a mage from alpha centauri, they'll blow your planet up AND the surrounding sector.

>>1980640

Everything everywhere is part of the Type of that location.

We'd be a part of ORT if we lived on Mercury. However, we're more rather part of Type-Akasha, the hive existence of humans.

Remember, the Nasuverse splits itself into "bubbles".

>>1980662

>Akasha

Don't you mean Alaya? Or am I just stupid?

>>1980667
Even if you're wrong, it doesn't mean you're stupid; just misremembering or misled.

>>1980667

.... Yes, yes I do.

>>1980662
So, they are subject to borders and boundaries after all, if on a slightly larger scale.

>>1980676

Yukari would have to work with planet-sized bubbles to limit the AREA of a Type.

However, as Type-Mercury shows, it "leaks" its bubble, in the form of Crystal Valley.

So Yukari can't stop ORT.

>>1980642
Nya!

>>1980700
ORT is polluting the here with its environmente, that means there has to be a border between the Crystal Valley and Earth.
Yukari can fuck shit up. Hell, ORT's physical form's border is enough.

>>1980735

No, it isn't.

Then Yukari would just have a nice chat with M/M.

>>1980700
Assuming complete control over borders and boundaries, neither of those should prove even a slight obstacle.

If assuming limited control, said limit will need to be established and assumed to be outside its own scope.

What if Yukari expanded Reimu's armpits to cover the entire world?

/end of powerlevels

>>1980793
....Fuck.

>>1980793
Well, now that h4x to end all h4x has arrived, I think the discussion is over.

>>1980793
giogioawesome.jpg

>>1980793
>GioGio and his stand are unable to attack Rohan Kishibe.

GG, buddy.

I love this Thread.

>135 posts and 19 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
God damn it /jp/.

>>1980549
>>gigantic magic circuit

...not to be a tightass or anything, or prolong the shitthread or anything, but....

....Fuyuki Wiki says she has only one magic circuit.

Average is 20. Rin has 40.

...Shirou has.... 27.

Fuck.

>>op image
>>137 posts and 19 image replies omitted.

Oh man, I thought /g/ was easy

>>1980951
I just opened /jp/ a few seconds ago and saw this at the top, and was about to make the same kind of reply

>>1980958
To be fair, all of Shirou's 27 circuits only exist to do one particular kind of magic.

Fuck, where can I read Notes and Talk. ?

>>1980967

Well, they're all one circular circuit that stems from his mind.

It's not that "he can only do one magic", its that "only his mind can do magic". And his mind can only do one thing.

>>1980987
would that be laundry or cooking?

>>1980987

Incidentally, you can see exactly 27 circuits in this image. It's nice to see in-game art match character information...

>>1980987
Now we're just getting into personal interpretation of the vague, and occasionally contradictory, descriptions

>>1980967
Rin's 40 are general-purpose, while Shirou's 27 are specialized in using his Reality Marble (which includes projection and strengthening)
He can still use basic magic, it's just that he can't begin to approach Rin's talent in anything but his Marble (Archer has knowledge of orthodox magic)

>>1980996

No, that's how it works.

All his magic stems from his Reality Marble, and what Reality Marbles do is create your mind.

Magi start learning magic from childhood. Shirou didn't even know how to use his magic circuit until he is 17. That's all there is to it, Shirou can be an average magus if he trained for it, but it's going to take him years to master the most basic shit he should have known when he was a child. He has affinity with tracing and swords because of he is mindfucked and thus he can use it easily.

>>1981015
Rin sees making Shirou into an average magus with a Reality Marble as a challenge that could take 10 years

>>1981015

Shirou explicitly says he CAN'T do other magic.
The only things he can do are Strengthening and Projection, and he's focused on Strengthening for 9/10ths of his magic career under Kiritsugu.

This is because the "mindfuck" he went through made his mind into a REALITY MARBLE.
Reality Marbles can only do one thing; give form to your mind.
The mindfuck also made his mind into swords.
Ergo, his reality marble is swords.

>>1981015

Eh... he was what, eight? Nine? When Kiritsugu found him. Seventeen is absolute bullshit.

Oh, and his affinity is 'swords' because he had Avalon inside of him, and it's influence as a sheath changed his circuits.

>>1981048 Shirou explicitly says he CAN'T do other magic.
>Shirou
He doesn't know shit about magi and that phrase was just for dramatic effect. He was born with magic circuits and just does not have the training any normal magus would have by his age.

WE'LL NEVER KNOW WHAT SHIROU CAN DO SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

>>1981056
Rin thinks Kiritsugu was also doing it wrong his entire life. Shirou didn't know the most basic way to se his magic circuit and created a fake one every time risking death before Rin fixes him up.

>>1981002
Archer knew about magic, but the fact that he never used any kind of magic other than his own stemming from his Reality Marble is sort of telling.

>>1981068
Rin thought Kiritsugu was teaching Shirou wrong, by basically letting him do whatever the fuck he wanted to in training, and not teaching him by an orthodox method. Either Kiritsugu never really wanted Shirou to learn magic or Kiritsugu knew it would be useless with the way Shirou was.

>>1981056
He was born with the Marble and the affinity to swords. No clue who he got them from; either his parents were secretly magi or he won the genetic lottery.
He only had Avalon implanted in him when he was found by Kiritsugu.

>>1981087
I doubt they would list his knowledge of basic as one of his skills if he couldn't use it. He probably keeps it hidden to surprise people who don't think he can use any magic besides his Marble (like how Lancer hides his ability to use magical runes).

>>1981087
There is no point in Archer using any other magic. There is no point in Shirou learning any other magic, he is just too old for the required time investment to be worth anything when he can recreate divine mysteries from nothing already. Shirou can learn and use ordinary magic, but what's the point.

>>1980958

She only has one, but it's of an amazingly great quality.

>>1981105
Shirou is determind to learn it and Rin is determined to teach him it

>>1981093
Reality marbles are not innate in humans. No one is ever born with one and it is only acquired through magical training. Or having a divine mystery implanted into your body and being mindfucked. It is impossible for Shirou to have been born with a reality marble.

Hey doesn't Gilgamesh have the Slash Emperor sword?

Since he has every sword ever, after all.

>>1981141

Fucking genius

>>1981131
Then where did Shirou get it from?

>>1981158
It was given to him by ███████████████.

>>1981158
mindfuckery and avalon implants

>>1981141

No.
Slash Emperor did not originate on Earth; it came from Unfiltered Ether raining down on the planet changing human genetics.

Hell, it's not even a "sword", it's Ado Edem's BONES.

>>1981169

Okay... how about the Jewel Sword?

>>1981169
Pfft, So?

It came from a human then?

Gilgamesh owns humanity.

MONGRELS!

>>1981141

Nah, SE's like a part of Ado's body. It doesn't quite work like that, or you could say stuff like 'Gilgamesh has Sakura's crushing breasts in his vault'.

>>1981176

The Jeweled Sword of Zelretch probably came from another dimension.

So no.

>>1981183
>Gilgamesh has Sakura's crushing breasts in his vault
Lucky bastard

>>1981194

Alright, fine.

>>1981194

What about the replica?

>>1981194
creating the magical tunnel that the sword uses is probably a significantly easier usage of the "Kaleidoscope" sorcery than actually 'world-walking'. I'd think it more likely that Zalretch made something similar to the gem sword before he became the partially transcendent being that he is now.

>>1981213

GILGAMESH?

Using a REPLICA?

MONGREL OF MONGRELS.

>>1980370
godo's black barrel is an artifact he dug up iirc, its something thats in the churches possesion ( mentioned in tsukihime game )

>>1981226
If I were Shirou I'd project the Kaleidostick and use it to mess with Rin's mind

This thread is full of irony.

Slightly modified screencap.

>>1981194
>The Jeweled Sword of Zelretch probably came from another dimension.

iirc shirou compairs it to alien technology when he traces it

>>1981246
thats why its so much fun

Kohaku = Hisui = Gun God (unequipped) = Tomoe = Ryuunosuke = Shinji > Fake Shiki > Fuji-nee = Dragon Tooth Warrior = Misayo = Azaka = Possessed Corpse = The Dead > Meruka = Caren = Kirie > Len = Kariya = Ilya = Sakura = Avalon Shirou = Lio = Tsukihime Satsuki = Leysritt = Arba (usually) = Maiya > Irisviel = Kiritsugu > Luvia = Zouken = Kotomine = Rin = Avenger > Bazett = Waver = UBW Shirou = Sion = Reinforced Kuzuki = Nanaya > Kiri = Heaven's Feel Shirou = Arba (potentially) = SHIKI > 18th Roa = Fujino = Akiha = R.Shiki = Melty Blood Satsuki = Sion Tatari > Night of Wallachia = El-Melloi = Touko > Soren Araya = "Ryougi Shiki" = Ciel = Kojirou = Barthomeloi = Kouma = Aoko > 4th Assassin = 5th Assassin = Archer > Kurogiri = Clairvoyant Fujino = Nrvnqsr > 5th Rider > 4th Rider > 5th Caster = 4th Lancer > 5th Lancer > 4th Caster > Dark Berserker > Roa Elesia = 5th Berserker > Saber = Lancelot > Dark Saber > Arcueid = Gilgamesh = Dark Sakura > Counter Guardian Archer > Zelretch > Ado Edem = Gun God (Black Barrel) > Angra Mainyu > Original Roa > Primate Murder > Type Venus > Type Pluto > Crimson Moon = Type Saturn > Type Jupiter > ORT

>>1981194
It was made by Zelretch. He probably made it early in life and used it to kill the Crimson Moon

>>1981320

FUCK, now Gun God makes even LESS sense!

>>1981320
This is correct.

>>1981325

Guns only make you weaker, see Aikido thread.

>Kohaku = Hisui > Everyone

Fuck year

>>1981320

Is the archer that is summoned as a servant actually weaker than when he is summoned as a counter guardian?

>>1981351

Naturally.

The way Servant summoning works involves modern day popularity and such.

Shirou's a likable guy, but he's not quite Hercules.

>>1981351
Summoned by Rin = Powered by a single human magus, concidered something which shouldn't be in the world, so is constantly using energy just to stay there

As a counter guardian = Called out by the planet itself to kill something so dangerous that humanity itself is about to be destroyed. Has unlimited energy and will not stop until the mission is complete. Think of it this way, powered by the world, he could trace Excalibur and use it. Over, and over again.

>>1980398
T-Moon Complex 3 would probably happen. It fits with the established characters and plot pretty well. (At least the first half with just Rin. Once they bring in Saber it gets questionable.)

>>1981365

No. Not even as a Counter Guardian is Archer able to use Excalibur. It doesn't fucking matter how much Mana he has, he just doesn't have good enough Magic Circuits to allow him to charge the blade.

I hear a lot of people talking about Counter-guardian Archer, but I don't get it. Is there a single instance where Archer was summoned as a counter-guardian? Can other servants be summoned in the same manner?

>>1981389
Shirou was able to use it at the end of HF, remember.

If he can use it, burned out and nearly dead, then a Counter Guardian Emiya can.

>Completely obvious troll thread.
>193 posts
>Oh jaypee

>>1981389
In UBW he threatens to trace Exacalibur in order to prevent Saber from using it. Considering Saber's Mind's Eye skill, it seems unlikely he could make an empty threat during battle with her.

>>1981413
Obvious troll thread that turned out pretty awesome, in retrospect.

>>1981413
everyone knows it's a troll thread but just wants an excuse to talk about TYPE-MOON

Hay guys wats going on in this thread?

>>1981403
>>1981421

He can use it, he'll just die afterwords. No matter what.