/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>we

You kind of can't without removing those lines manually. The minority of people who want to translate are also the same minority of people who happen to be ESL shitters who refuse to keep the tone of the original without inserting memes because they felt like putting their own twist on it. It's actually a very similar mindset to that of localization groups of other Japanese video games, a la Fire Emblem Fates.

Pic unrelated

>>19665972
>Pic unrelated
then why post it?

>>19665923
We don't. The people who enjoy that kind of thing don't want it to change and they get extremely upset when you disagree with them, so it's better to leave them alone.
Also we've just had around 1000 posts about this subject in the past few days. Give it a break already you piece of shit.

>>19665923
I don't see any point in trying to create alternative thcrap translations, or whatever. Best thing to do would be to edit the translations on touhouwiki.net, making them as exact as possible and freely adding footnotes where needed. This way, people who actually care about what characters say will have the equivalent of a faithful "academic" translation.

The situation with manga is more difficult, and we will probably never have quality translations for that.

>>19666072
I didn't know anon could post 1000 times.
Based Clarste, dealing with that butthrut single anon by himself amirite fellow discordfriends?

>>19666072
>Give it a break already you piece of shit.
Sorry for making you endure yet another thread on this subject. It's not like you could just not open it, right?

>>19666082
>You sound like a snake.
How will I ever recover?

just learn japanese and play the games like how they were intended.

>>19665923
You're late, it have been fixed the day the th16 demo was released, more than a year ago. https://www.thpatch.net/w/index.php?title=Th16/Cirno%27s_Scenario/en&diff=773668&oldid=773660

>>19666229
The fact that it and doggo were there in the first place is more worrying.
The people in charge of the current translations are obviously not fit for this task if they wanna keep pushing memes and shit into official Touhou games and printworks.

I want /v/ to leave.

>>19666255
Then leave already

>>19666072
>Give it a break already you piece of shit.
I think it's best to let them be. Keep the crossie autism contained, you know? Just let them roost in their hypocrisy (paging >>19666084 who smugly points out how people enter a thread they don't like while consuming a translation he doesn't like) and their baby whining.

I mean, what's the worst they could possibly do? When they can't muster the effort to even DO anything.

Best translator ever was one of the guys who subbed touhoou m1 grand prix middle seasons. Forgot his name but he was so literal that each manzai was filled with annotations. Although I had to pause a million times, it was amazingly done and I feel like I understood it how it ought to be for Japs proper. People who sub non literal think you're too stupid to understand / are just lazy fucks.

>>19666082
>what ZUN intended
Because a completely unofficial, unapproved translation of a game that the vast majority of the people requiring said translation pirated is absolutely something you should expect to faithfully express the author's intent, regardless of the fact that linguistic and cultural differences make that fundamentally impossible.

>>19665923
>stop trolling
even normandos use that fucking word irl fuck this earth

>>19666339
>is absolutely something you should expect to faithfully express the author's intent
Well yes, that's kind of the point?

wow we definitely needed another thread on this stupid shit. learn japanese you retards.

crossboard kids fuck off.

>>19666624
Crossboard from where? Can you link me?

>>19666406
>Well yes, that's kind of the point?
No, it's really not, because respecting the author's intent in this situation is, by its very nature, impossible.

You're talking about something written in a specific language, intended to be read by a specific audience that possesses a native understanding of that language, and filled with historical and cultural references that the intended audience already possess the background to understand. By translating it into another language, without the author's permission or input, you are already disregarding that author's intent, and that's not even getting into that matter of how certain aspect's of the author's language aren't translatable.

It's like if the author were telling a joke. The people the joke was intended for don't need any explanation to understand it or find it funny. Anyone who needs the joke explained to them is simply not going to enjoy or appreciate the joke in the exact same way the intended audience did, and certainly not the same way the author intended. And yet, that is precisely what you are claiming to want. You want to be able to experience and enjoy the joke the author is telling in the way he intended it to while needing the joke to be explained to you which is, by its very nature, NOT what the author intended.

>>19666765
And because of that, it's perfectly fine to change the author's joke into a completely different joke, because its intention is simply making you laugh so anything goes.

>>19666765
The author never intended for it to be written in anything outside of its original language, therefore it shouldn't be translated at all.

>>19666765
>respecting the author's intent in this situation is, by its very nature, impossible
Unlike every other translation in existence?

>>19666765
Why don't we just replace ZUN's text with Rick and Morty dialogue, since it's impossible to express author's intent anyway?

>>19666765
>You want to be able to experience and enjoy the joke the author is telling in the way he intended it to while needing the joke to be explained to you
I'm ok with just having it explained. I honestly don't need redditors trying to be funny for me in ZUN's place.

I shudder to imagine what would happen if you guys actually paid attention to any videogame translation done by actual, professional, paid teams. Stuff like Final Fantasy or Splatoon would give you aneurisms. Hell, Persona probably was too localized for you.

>>19667934
Professional translators don't use reddit memes

>>19667934
Yeah, not like those haven't gotten a lot of attention lately for being trash or anything.

>>19665923
>implying they need fixing

>>19667934
Good thing I don't play video games.

>>19667934
Those are commercial products, so their localization can't be helped even if I dislike it. Touhou, on the other hand, makes no sense to localize.

>>19667955
Aren't you playing Touhou, though?
>>19667948
I'm afraid I'm too retarded to understand the point of what I assume is supposed to be pic related, did an entire scene get chaged for silence?

>>19667934
So what you're saying is that just because other people overlocalize their shit that means it's okay to do the same.

>>19667973
>did an entire scene get chaged for silence?
Yes.

>>19667974
>overlocalize
This is a pretty subjective word, what is, exactly, ovelocalizing and how is it worse than leaving stuff untranslated because you'd rather explain with notes? I mean, it's not like if they turned the Youkai into "monsters" or something like that.

>>19667998
>what is, exactly, ovelocalizing
Everything Nemuno says in the translated version is a good example.

>>19667973
>Aren't you playing Touhou, though?
Yes, but I don't use thcrap, I just read the dialogue on wiki.

>>19667990
Okay, that and pic related is actual fucking cancer, but I wouldn't say we reached that point quite yet.

>>19668011
I'm pretty sure the same people who translate things for thshit also do the work on the wiki, or at least part of it. I'm pretty sure things like "Reimers" and Texan Nemuno are still there for example.

>>19668009
Yes, I can see your point there. In fact, stuff like this should be your main point, instead of them using the "wrong" internet lingo. LMAO and LOL are practically interchangeable and "dogg*" is just a vowel, there's no way you aren't gonna look like petty assholes when that's the reason you're tearing into the unpaid, voluntary contributions some guy did for the community.

>>19667934
Oh gosh, that reminds me of mangagamer's version of Evenicle which I recently played. This was my first time experiencing a professional weeb game text translation with original spoken japanese at the same time.

The localized text was SO jarring against the spoken dialog, I just couldn't take it. Many main characters lost much of their personality and certain ways of referring to the antagonists were flat out mistranslated in the sense that the localized version did not even convey the same meaning nor have the same connotations as the original. Had to drop the translated game halfway and get the original, even though I'm pretty slow at reading nipponese.

>>19665923
If I had to guess the people doing the translations are likely to be very defensive of them, so I'd say either let them be or learn some Japanese yourself. Translating ZUN's dialogue faithfully... in my opinion is impossible. You can get the logical outline of it and present it in some form of English that doesn't sound too offensive, but not more.

>>19668278
How long will it take me to learn to read japanese?

#doggo is a defensible translation

also you can make your own patch that doesn't have these problems
also you already did

500 post garbage fire incoming

>>19668309
ur a faget

>>19668285
All the way up to forever if you don't do it.

>>19668309
Fuck off clarste

>>19668309
Here your (You). That particular issue has been resolved already.

>>19668235
>many main characters lost much of their personality
Funnily enough, I've seen very literal translations that made the characters flat as fuck, while much more loose ones actually made them more endearing.

>>19668378
>Here your (You). That particular issue has been resolved already.
the fact that the translation has been changed does not mean that the original round of complaints had merit

>>19668547
The fact that it got changed proves you wrong. Feel free to continue whining about it though.

>>19668593
a translation being non-optimal does not mean that it was a crime against translation like most of the people crying about it

>Feel free to continue whining about it though.
i already was, but thanks for the continued invitation

>>19668597
As long as you're aware that your entire whining is pointless.
Also, nice on you for admitting that it wasn't a good translation.

>>19668531
Indeed, translations often ruin the original intent, one way or another.

>>19668531
I mean, yeah, if something doesn't have a literal translation, then by definition a literal translation doesn't have it. And Japanese sentence structure has a lot of things that don't translate.

If a Japanese character establishes his cockiness by saying "I" in a cocky way, the literal translation is that he just says "I".

You ever notice how machine translations of LNs will have long blocks of "raw" dialogue between three or more speakers, with no indications like "said Alice" or "said Bob" to indicate who's saying what? That's because Japanese indicates the speaker through how they say "I" instead.

>>19668531
Hell, some of the most literal translations I've seen (stuff from doujins handled by small/voluntary translators or stuff translated in boorus) read like if it was spanish, in the sense that the grammar and structure are similar to what you would hear someone say in spanish rather than english. It's hard to explain.

>>19667934
>Hell, Persona probably was too localized for you.

>>19669094
You know what I fucking meant.

just play the japanese version and read the translations from the wiki lol

>>19669128
Are the wiki translations any different from thcrap?

>>19667990
Jesus Christ is this real? Modern Western culture needs to be put in the trash and set on fire

>>19669183
This isn't new and it isn't just Western.

>>19668235
>weeb game

>>19669315
Got a prob, weeb?

>>19669183
I do think it's a bit too self-conscious for it's own good, a lot of hat it deems "racist" or "sexist" is not even that bad. I also wonder what would that guy do if he came across a character that's clearly intended to be a sexist/racist asshole, though.

>>19665923
Stop trolling, please.

>>19667934
Most of these people are the same kind of people who unironically read machine-translated light novels, I can guarantee it.

>>19667943
Treehouse has actually done this.

>>19669906
How is this any different than putting trolling and doggo in Touhou translations?

>>19669906
I don't see the issue with this. America is getting what they want and deserve.

>>19669906
Treehouse is the worst of the worst though. When they arent shitting up translations they are putting as much effort possible into censorship. The current Touhou translations are nowhere near Treehouse levels of terrible.

>>19669931
The use of trolling in the OP pic was changed almost immediately after the translation came out I think. Make of that whatever you will.
The main difference though is that with Treehouse its a constant thing. Current Touhou translations (mostly) dont change the overall meaning or intent of something, and certainly dont censor. Obviously shit needs too be revised too make the translations better but our situation here is nothing compared too the situation of people who play games that are butchered by Treehouse. They are a unique form of terrible too the point where comparing them too Reddit would be generous.
I dont like Treehouse very much.

If this was 2008 everyone here would probably be more knowledgeable about the fact that these translations are stupid because Clarste's primary audience are aging goons that live their lives on twitter

I wonder how many people here still know what a goon is

>>19670159
clarste's primary audience is basically everyone because he has the only distributed translations for a great deal of touhou manga

>>19670159
If this were 2008, people would still be using the old translations in arguments over canon.

Learn Japanese.

No sympathy for EOPs.

>>19670233
I thought Recettear's translation was cute, it really captured the right spirit and did not detract from the game.

>>19670215
>>19670174
this supports my belief that something awful is the infected appendix leaking cancer into western internet subcultures

>>19670255
you realize this website was spawned from it too, right

>>19669931
"An elderly scholar living in a fantasy setting uses Internet slang to talk to a legendary hero" is very different from "A teenage girl living in an Earth-plus-secrets setting uses Internet slang while posting selfies on Twitter". Especially when there's been multiple times where Sumireko bragged about the Internet, or Gensokyo residents couldn't understand her because of the slang she was using.

Cirno talking about trolling has no excuse though, and met the fate it deserved.

The 16.5 translation has even more problems, like this line. The original Japanese is わき腹から弾が出てるｗｗｗ. They decided to add in a black twitter meme ("girl wyd") for no reason.

>>19670265
Yeah, kinda proves my point even further.

>>19670330
i didn't even know what this meant the first time i played, so absolutely jarring. and then the original doesn't have memes in that line? disgusting.

>>19669170
They used to be, not anymore. Thcrap is what 99% of people read.

All these /v/appas in the thread need to get >>>/out/

>>19670346
sadly crossboarders wont leave, threads from other boards getting moved here like DJT and seiyuu shit and the fucking "general" threads that they've made to complain about localizations (not just touhou) over the past few weeks are making them feel like they're welcome when being an EOP used to be something worth mocking on /jp/

Clarste took so much criticism from the doggo hashtag that she made a strawpoll about it begging for reassurance on ADTRW
https://www.strawpoll.me/16264424

>>19670363
Did you complain when discord / tumblr users admitted they were being sent here to defend THPatch? No. In fact, you probably belong to their discord circlejerk.

>>19670365
>she

>>19670365
>she

>>19670363
>being an EOP used to be something worth mocking
Maybe sarcastically, but this was always an english imageboard. If the majority of users spoke Japanese, as you claim, we wouldn't have used this english imageboard for years.

>>19670374
>>19670379
Is clarste a tranny?

>>19670402
IIRC Clarste said that if you need to tell people your gender before you make a point, then it's likely a stupid point.

>>19670500
Definitely a tranny then.

>>19670528
...are you high? That's the standard reaction to anyone on 4chan who brings up that they're a girl for no reason.
Nobody in this thread has said what gender they are, so clearly we're all trannies until we prove otherwise by posting about how we don't want to be misgendered.

>>19670587
You will never be a girl clarste, no matter how much estrogen you take.

>>19670330
I didn't know it was a "Black Twitter" thing, I just thought it was Sumi being amused and bemused at Seiran. It wasn't a 1:1 translation but it sounded so natural. Not sure if I'm so fond of the line now, though.
>>19670528
Clarste is a Clarste.

>>19670643
>It wasn't a 1:1 translation but it sounded so natural.
They just made up a line they wanted the character to say. So bad.

>>19670657
If it's in-character, it follows the spirit of the original line (Sumi laughing at Seiran's spell), and conveys the aforementioned meaning clearly, then it's a good translation.

>>19670670
Knowing there may be an agenda behind it does dock quite a bit of points, though.

>>19670670
It doesn't follow the original line. It adds in a meme where she didn't use one, and changes the meaning of the sentence.

>>19670670
it's a horrible fucking translation, the japanese doesn't have any connotation of Sumireko asking Seiran a question, so you've altered the meaning.

>>19670330
shit like this is why big-budget scripts will get purchased for TH17

>>19670708
Is anyone unironically going to do that?

>>19670685
>>19670699
Guys, do you have any reading comprehension whatsoever? It does follow the original line ("she's shooting bullets to the sides"). It's a rethorical question, Seiran doesn't answer. It doesn't alter the plot, doesn't hamper the gameplay (Seiran does, indeed, shoot to the sides), it doesn't alter the setting or contradict canon in any way. The only thing wrong with the line is that Sumi may be referencing Black Twitter.

>>19670726
A Touhou game only has like ~1000-2000 lines if I recall. And patching software already exists (thcrap), and image assets are made by the thpatch retards that you can fork, so you only need to pay for the script.

I'm no expert but I think a good shop would charge you like ~$1000 for a script. Worth it

>>19670685
>>19670699
It really doesnt change the actual meaning though. The subject matter of the sentence is still the bullets and Sumi seemingly being amused by it. Yes they added a shitty twitter meme and im also not happy with that but dont act like its 100% wrong now. Adding a few words doesnt alter the meaning of the sentence in this case. You get the same take away from the sentence whether you go with the one that was posted or the literal translation.

>>19670741
>It's a rethorical question
Why are you adding "rethorical" questions when Sumireko never asked any? Adding in memes just because you want to. Fuck off.

>>19670674
>an agenda behind it
I'd say it's more evidence of where the translator(s) are getting their cultural influences from, as opposed to any active attempt to change the culture.

>>19670749
There's no reason to change the sentence. They looked for an opportunity to add a meme they liked, and took it. Retards like you defend them.

thpatch isn't making good english translations and they never have, and they're getting worse. the fact is once you know enough japanese to know this, you don't use them anymore. I do feel bad for the people stuck with them, touhou deserves better than this trash.

>>19670758
Its not defending mate. If you reread the sentence you'll notice how I said im personally not happy with it. My point is that the meaning of the sentence has objectively not changed regardless of said shitty meme.

>>19670768
>im personally not happy with it
Then stop defending it. It's not a good translation.

>>19670773
Can you read properly? Me pointing out that the meaning hasnt changed isnt defending it.

>>19670752
Is really just asking someone "girl wyd" a meme (serious question here)? Is it really of dire importance that the original line wasn't a rethorical question when this one wasn't even asked at someone in particular? I don't even think they did it to sneak a meme they liked. They saw the original line, went "how do we make this sound like something someone would actually post as a status online?" and that was the resulting translation.

>>19670782
The meaning did change because Sumireko is now asking rhetorical questions, when she didn't before. You turned a non-question sentence, into a question.

It's completely unnecessary and you admitted it sucks, so stop defending it.

>>19670785
>how do we make this sound like something someone would actually post as a status online?

Her original Japanese is the status she posted online. Translate that. Don't add shit because you want the character to say it.

>>19670785
It's ghetto twitter speak. Shit's plagued the internet for years.

>>19670785
>Is really just asking someone "girl wyd" a meme (serious question here)?
Yeah it's black twitter lingo / sorority girl meme. I didn't even know what it was when I saw it in game and checked the japanese, lo and behold they added in a meme where there wasn't one previously.

>>19670741
>It doesn't alter the plot, doesn't hamper the gameplay, it doesn't alter the setting or contradict canon in any way.
Wait a second, that's not what you said at first.

>>19670749
What it does, however, is change Sumireko's character. From average Japanese teenager who abuses slang and netspeak, she was changed into a black Twitter memespouter.
Great job.

>>19670793
>>19670794
Huh, I thought it was just the way people expressed themselves nowadays.
>>19670792
A translation has to convey the same meaning, and that's what this does. Yes, it has a meme where it doesn't belong (and I guess it should go away), but the one thing Sumireko is expressing (Seiran's shooting bullets to the sides, that's funny to me) is intact.
>>19670815
Well, no, but those two seemed a bit slow, so I felt the need to further elaborate what is a good translation, especially with how disproportionate the complaints seemed at first. Now I know it really is an unfitting meme where it doesn't belong, and so the line should be changed.

What the fuck does WYD even mean? I refuse to add it to any search history of mine.

>>19670852
I thought it stood for "What are You Doing", but since it's a Black Twitter thing I guess "What You Doing" would be it.

>>19670841
>Yes, it has a meme where it doesn't belong (and I guess it should go away), but
No buts, fuck off discord asslicker.

>>19670868
Yes, after reading and recieveing new information, I came to realize perhaps a japanese high school student shouldn't be using a meme started by black americans. That's what you don't like, you're right in not liking it and it should be changed. But sure, insult me for agreeing with you, it'll do your ego good.

>>19670852
Wash Your Dishes, referring to an unkempt sink leading to an unkempt mind.

>>19670365
>>19670365
The absolute state of clarste or should I say

Cuckste

I made that one up myself, not too shabby if I do say so myself

Hmm.

>>19671339
Why are literal children in charge of the current Touhou translations?

>>19671339
30 something year old men acting like it’s middle school.
Why?

what is the point of these threads? your options with regards to any translation for the games is obvious

1. learn japanese and play in japanese like you're intended to
2. make your own translation and patch it in

someone on /jp/ already did 2 in a span of about 5 minutes, you can just use that. anything else is just pointless circular bitching for no real benefit

>>19671406
What about the Manga?
Are you gonna tell everyone to learn Japanese make their own personal translation?

>>19671406
this

Touhou is about a secluded Japanese traditionalist community focused heavily on spiritual matters, mythology, and maintaining an atmosphere of balance and serenity. Modern western culture and normalfags are the antithesis to the entire setting, and Violet Detector (and Sumireko herself) were at least partially designed to clearly illustrate this contrast. It's ironic that people want to inject their cancerous garbage into these games for the sake of their own worldview, when Touhou is supposed to be at least partially about returning to a simpler, purer, more beautiful time. I don't know about you, but it disgusts me.

>>19671553
this

>>19671553
you're retarded.

>>19671553
>Modern western culture and normalfags are the antithesis to the entire setting, and Violet Detector (and Sumireko herself) were at least partially designed to clearly illustrate this contrast
Said ZUN nowhere.

>>19671553
Are you seriously bitching about people injecting their ideology on the setting while you are injecting your ideology on the setting?
Go back to whatever board you came from.

>>19671646
>>19671646
>Are you seriously bitching about people injecting their ideology on the setting while you are injecting your ideology on the setting?
Not really. Touhou is set in a world rooted heavily in Japanese tradition and mythology. That is fact, unless you believe that mobile phones and hashtags are actual established parts of the culture of Gensokyo. Sumireko doesn't belong there at all, this is obvious from her intentionally obnoxious dialogue referencing Touhou memes and other character's curiosity towards her as an extremely obvious outsider. While ZUN never straight up declares it (like many other aspects of the canon, much is left unsaid), she is a parody of the worst examples of a Touhou secondary.

>>19670250
The mood was cute but it also dumbed down the dialogue substantially. Frankly, it was like the translators didn't actually know japanese.

>>19671762
>Touhou is set in a world rooted heavily in Japanese tradition and mythology.
This is somewhat true, but Touhou is actually more about the crossing of cultures in many ways. Why do you think we have so many western/chinese Youkai? Why do you think ZUN's circle name is Team Shanghai Alice. Shanghai is a very multicultural city, or rather a place where cultures meet too many people.
Youre reading far too much into it my man. Adding an outsider into the mix too shake things up a bit is all we know for a fact was ZUN's intention. When you get down too it most of what he creates is simply because he thinks its seems fun/cool. Unlike other aspects of canon that we can infer without ZUN being blunt about it, his intentions with the characters he creates and what they represents are not something we should jump too conclusions on and pretend we know the answers too without him being direct about it.

>>19671762
Hatate searched the internet for pictures using her smartphone, Rinnosuke was intrigued by modern artifacts, Nitori operates all sorts of fancy equipment, and Aya publishes a garbage tabloid. The modem world has always been liking just around the corner. The first Windows Touhou game was a smorgasbord of East and West. While traditional Japanese mythology obviously forms the bedrock of the setting, there's all sorts of shit mixed in there because it turns out that Gensokyo accepts everything.

>>19671821
>garbage tabloid
don't insult your local paper, made by the great genius crow tengu reporter aya shameimaru

>>19671762
>she is a parody of the worst examples of a Touhou secondary.
And that's all just your personal interpretation of it, most likely based on the mess she's become thanks to localization. She's just an extremely curious human from outside who talks and behaves like a Japanese teenager, not a mememancer who can't stay 3 seconds without doing retarded shit. She's been flanderized harder than any other character ever before, even Cirno who is a complete brainless retard in the eyes of some, and part of the blame for that is awful English localizations.

>>19670790
>The meaning did change because Sumireko is now asking rhetorical questions, when she didn't before. You turned a non-question sentence, into a question.
Black Twitter memes aside, questions ceasing to be questions or vice versa has probably happened in every countless translated works you've read without you noticing and without harming the original text. For "demo shikata ga nai" to become a "but what can you do?" would not be a remarkable or interesting translation in many contexts.

>>19671339

>>19672009
These translations are not official or commecial.

>>19671553
>when Touhou is supposed to be at least partially about returning to a simpler, purer, more beautiful time.
Wrong

Is discord the biggest cesspool created by mankind? Why does it produce so many autists and faggotry?

>>19671406
>pointless circular bitching for no real benefit
Why are you talking like /jp/ is better than this?

>>19672009
>this argument again

>>19673799
It's a fusion between the worst of IRC and the worst of forums.

>>19673869
Why are you /v/tards so obsessed with shit?

>>19673908
But anon, that pic is from /a/

>>19671915
>Sumireko making suppository jokes is stupid, and the person who wrote that doesn't understand ZUN at all.
But that was ZUN

>>19675562
Who are you quoting?

>>19671553
>Touhou is about a secluded Japanese traditionalist community focused heavily on spiritual matters, mythology, and maintaining an atmosphere of balance and serenity.
Gensokyo is a permaculture.

.