/jp/ - Otaku Culture

This thread has a good premise but your choice of wording for the OP is terrible. I imagine I speak for many others when I say that the biggest change is that it has become popular and cool to have an interest and to loudly display your love for otaku subjects in an `otacool` fashion.

>>19168623
Yeah I could have picked a better title for sure

I agree with you on that, I wanted to see specific examples of those differences you are talking about.

>>19168637
not that anon but I think probably the clearest example of weebshit becoming "cool" is in fashion/apparel. There's tons of streetwear brands that use anime imagery that would, if worn by a typical weeb, seem cringy as shit. but because abgs are wearing it it's cool. iiii clothing and wooji are two that come to mind, but theres a ton of them out there
this is also probably in part because of the confluence of anime and hiphop culture, and with the internet being like it is now, there's aspects of otaku culture that aren't so niche anymore.

>>19168623
>>19168658
I'm not really sure when "otacool" happened myself. It was probably part of people thinking "nerd" stuff was cool in general, but I don't remember anime stuff being particularly bad to like anime before a certain period. I mean the 80s and early 90s was a pretty weeb period in general. Stuff like ninja and samurai were in, martial arts movies and other eastern shit were still in. I lost as much interest (in anime) after the 90s wave and didn't really get as into it again until the mid 2000s(after all the early 2000s stuff people like, like Tsukihime and Azumanga but before the moe shift in the latter 2000s.) when I began watching it of my own volition online.

It seems like sometime during that point people came up with the concept of wapanese. It's not like it didn't exist before, but somehow it became "wrong", at least among internet types, to like anime or anything Japanese. It might have something to do with the concept of "hentai" becoming popularized in the west because I remember people online complaining about people thinking anime = hentai, but more than anything I think it was the anti-anime faction on SA and 4chan throwing around wapanese until it got filtered to weeaboo that this idea of liking anime being "cringy" took off. I don't know what was going on in other (offline) places though. I do know 4chan is the only place I've seen that ever got its panties in a bunch over a video game being from Japan.

I also seem to only remember it being associated with "Narutards", like in this image, and such, never with DBZ or Jojo or HnK or fans of any older popular thing. (weirdly Japan's (anime) stereotype of wapanese seems to be of narutards too a lot, maybe its just because a blonde ninja is funny. Or Naruto fans are just worse than I thought, even over there, since there also seems to be some occasional bitterness about Naruto type ninja.) Before then, it was like emos and goths that got made fun of. Maybe they just evolved into DarkSasukeXxX types.

It seems like video games became "cool" all of a sudden, despite them never really being "uncool" outside of maybe stereotypically uncool characters on tv. I remember more stuff about parents disliking their children being into video games than that. They probably became most uncool when MMOs became popular and those kinds of autists flocked to them. But then they became cool, liking old cartoons became cool, liking anime became cool, liking other nerd shit became cool. And nerds got angry because so called normalfags started invading their hobbies after being mostly left alone, despite that the people were mostly associating with the types that called themselves otaku in the west(who were basically just uncool normalfags) rather than with the nerds directly. I have no idea when those types started calling themselves otaku either, come to think of it.
1/2

>>19168975
The biggest change, besides anime no longer being liked for being edgy and extreme compared to western cartoon is the gradual division of the fanbase(and it seems the whole world) into the huge tits and flat chest faction to the point you're not allowed to like anything inbetween, and the further division of anime fans into the yuri-moe, harem, and BL-bishounen factions so that it's hard to find an anime where boys and girls just interact normally. That and anime taking itself too seriously. (that is being about normal modern day stuff, or about normal modern day characcters in worlds resembling normal modern day video games instead of outright silly fantasy or sci fi or cartoony in general. e.g. I like Nichijou for just being silly in a cartoon way. ) The tits vs no tits thing became worse with the pedoscare stuff that happened in the 2000s internet era so that people even in Japan got infuriated over stuff like pantyshots and girls without tits wearing anything less than a nun's habit. It's also strange because although fanservice in anime was thought to be getting out of control up to that point, in this new era all kinds of fetish shit that would never be outside of an OVA gets aired. On top of that, so-called ironic otacool weebs seem to be ironically(?) liking loli too, perhaps as a backlash to the constant "everything less than z-cups is pedo" ideal (or the "you should be jailed for drawings ideal") which is kind of weird because even back in the old late 90s, pre-super censored internet 1.0 loli was more tolerated than liked, and presumably the same for anime around then and before.

I also think it's really, really weird VNs are (relatively) popular. I always thought of VN fans as a particular little niche of bishoujo game nerds. Like they have "anime" style but something about the nature and style of VNs was different from games and anime. Like if you asked me about a character froma video game, I'd probably describe a fantasy warrior or a ninja or something. If you asked me about an anime character, I'd probably describe like a teenage mech pilor or a magical girl or maybe a catgirl. If you asked me to describe a VN character, I'd describe something like that abomination from Welcome to NHK when the MCs tried to make a character. There's also something about them and "heavily anime" games in general that makes them look particularly weird (like Key's old uguu style). Even duing the time lots of VNs were being made into anime it seems like they still stayed a niche, but now all of a sudden the west is trying to make them mainstream or something.

Another thing that bothers me is this "collection of girls and boys" thing that's happened. I'm not sure if it's related to the moe anthromorphs fad online that gave rise to stuff like OS-tans, nijura maids, and mecha musume, or if it's just an advancement of the yuri-moe, harem, and BL-bishounen factions I mentioned before evolving into games where you just have harems of girls or guys. They definately inhereted the kinds of things I associate with VNs though. Alongside this fad is the "monstergirls" fad, which is something that was never needed and somehow became corrupted into their weird sexual fetish subculture. However this subculture (along with the "ryona" subculture) is partly responsibe for the temporary fad revival of erogames outside of VNs and Illusion type of trash 3D games. It's sort of like a neo PC-98 era except it's dying down already. (note: I never played PC-98 but I'm using it to associate with those type of "heavily anime" and kinda ero games that came out around that time and time of like Sega Saturn.)
2/2

- Increase in accessibility of content has reduced Western "otaku" culture from a single unified into a fractured network of people who are only interested in their own things.
- Mainstream "otaku culture" in the West (die-hard antisocial Japanese-learning social basket cases like /jp/ excluded) is no longer its own weird thing and has blended into merely one facet of a larger "nerd culture."

On the Japanese side I think the rise of social networks and mobile gaming, plus the "mainstreaming" of a good chunk of otaku culture thanks to the internet generation reaching adulthood, triggered a major change in the consumption patterns of Japanese otaku but I haven't really gotten anything to back up that claim. Maybe it's related to some of what the other anon observed. Insert some variant of Miyazaki's "otaku suck because they look at media, not people" quote here.

- Increase in accessibility of content has fractured Western "otaku" culture from a single unified front into a loose collection of people who are often interested only in their own things.
- Mainstream "otaku culture" in the West (die-hard antisocial Japanese-learning social basket cases like /jp/ excluded) is no longer its own weird thing and has blended into merely one facet of a larger "nerd culture."

On the Japanese side I think the rise of social networks and mobile gaming, plus the "mainstreaming" of a good chunk of otaku culture thanks to the internet generation reaching adulthood, triggered a major change in the consumption patterns of Japanese otaku but I haven't really gotten anything to back up that claim. Maybe it's related to some of what the other anon observed. Insert some variant of Miyazaki's "otaku suck because they look at media, not people" quote here.

>>19168598
>when i was a teen nobody knew shit about otaku culture, and speaking once of dragonball was an automatic "cringy guy" labeler.
>Today 80% of teens knows and watch anime all the time, some adults speak about freely.

>Still hide my power level
>Still happy about not showing my battle level.

>>19169081
>fractured Western "otaku" culture from a single unified front into a loose collection of people who are often interested only in their own things.
This makes me wonder if japanese works meant to appeal to train otaku, gun otaku, military otaku, etc appeals to those types in the west if they didn't already have an interest in anime otaku stuff.


>Mainstream "otaku culture" in the West (die-hard antisocial Japanese-learning social basket cases like /jp/ excluded) is no longer its own weird thing and has blended into merely one facet of a larger "nerd culture."
Is this a bad thing or a good thing? Older Japanese otaku were nerds in general, D&D, Sci Fi and anime stuff all mixed together.

>>19169135
We'll never know, because there's enough English-language material for anyone in the West to live a fully fulfilled life as a train nerd, gun nerd, or military nerd without ever touching anything Japanese, and therefore nobody bothers translating it.

As for good or bad I decided to stop having opinions on culture a long time ago. It's too much work.

>>19168598
well im slowly becoming a neet or just a shut in
id rather play games and watch anime every day then go out to play with friends or just be social our get a job eh he he ehhhh,

ive been watching so much anime and other Japanese stuff that i wish when i die i could start over in japan so i could be a an otaku there instead of here that way ill have more access to cool stuff, but if i did die i would miss all my figures and anime.

i have an unhealthy amount

What does it even mean to be part of Otaku-culture?
I don't know.

Anyway, I think the mid-2000s Otaku culture appeals to me more than what we have nowadays.
In a sense it was still a bit rough and had character, compared to today, where everything seems a bit too polished (on a surface level).
The OP pic shows what I mean quite well. I guess I just enjoy the aesthetic.
There used to be more fun and silly things as well. From Shaft anime shenanigans to simple 2000 video games.
Maybe I'm just biased.

>>19168976
>Another thing that bothers me is this "collection of girls and boys" thing that's happened.
I don't like that shit. Gacha-trash is something else that I strongly dislike about todays Otaku-culture. Love-live being both at the same time.

>>19169081
>君は残業が得意なフレンズなんだね！！

>>19169190
Nigger just get a job and go to japan

>>19169356
>I don't like that shit. Gacha-trash is something else that I strongly dislike about todays Otaku-culture.
Well it's been a part of otaku culture for a long time now. A lot of the jokes in Lucky Star from the mid-aughts were about Konata trying to collect character merchandise through raffles and promotions. If Lucky Star was rebooted she would ABSOLUTELY be a gacha fiend since gacha games are jut the digital version of card collecting. We just hate it more because social media means that we all have to see our favourite artist's card collection

>>19169081
Thank you for using bullet points like a reasonable person and not misusing the quotation feature

>>19171370
>A lot of the jokes in Lucky Star from the mid-aughts were about Konata trying to collect character merchandise through raffles and promotions.
>If Lucky Star was rebooted she would ABSOLUTELY be a gacha fiend since gacha games are jut the digital version of card collecting.
I wonder if people even remember gatchapon(capsule) machines are a real physical thing that was used as an analogy for games.

>>19171370
>>19171856
Also Konata seems to really like video games and would probably look down upon kusogames like that, spending her money on shitty mmorpg gatcha items instead.

>>19171856
I'm aware of that, but I don't remember Konata buying gachapon capsules in the anime. She mostly got cards and figs from promo offers, such as when she bought several boxes of chocolate wafers to get the card or whatever she wanted.
I think that gachapon machines are still popular in Japan.
>>19171866
The only hate I've seen for the games are from older otaku who remember a time before mobile games. So 2005-6 Konata would probably hate them but reboot 2018 Konata would probably be a mobage whale

>>19169952
Ever Kemono Friends fan I've met is an overworked depressed piece of shit or an unemployed anxiety-riddled alcoholic piece of shit

>>19172722
[Spoiler] Which one are you, anon? [/Spoiler]

>Huge mahjong tournament near me
>It's the garbage chinese version with flower and season tiles and shit

>>19172722
Explains a lot. I take it easy all the time and don't care for it.

bump

>>19168598
The rise of kuso mobage. Look at GBF and FGO. FGO pretty much killed Tsukihime

>>19168976
>>19169356
I've thought hard about the gacha thing and have come up with (some of) a model or idea as to why it's so popular. Consider photos of 80s and 90s otaku in their homes; their rooms are stuffed full of whatever their niche is - for example, scifi videotapes - organised and cataloged in a meticulous fashion. They had put in alot of time, effort and money (given the inaccessibility of the internet then) into tracking down each of those tapes and acquiring them, and are happy to have added to their collection, even if they have very few people or noone at all to show it off to. They spend most of their time in their rooms and are happy with what they have, even if noone sees it, and they aren't exposed to minimally few other collections.

Those are the old otaku. Think now of the new and modern otaku, equipped with a constant connection to the internet and constant access to a smartphone. They are more 'social', by which I mean they are more likely to talk to others online through some medium; 2ch, twitter, pixiv comments and so on, yet the group of people you can call otaku is more varied. Some are socially outgoing, extroverted and enjoy the company of others (have heard these described these as lite-otaku), while others are still quiet, still prefer their own company and to keep to themselves.

This gives 2 ideas;
The first is that extroverted otaku who are more likely to go out and spend time with friends don't put that much money into superfluous decorations, like figures, for their home or room where they spend the majority of their time, but instead prefer to spend their money on clothing and experiences with their friends, such as meals out or seeing a movie. The collection aspect comes in when you consider that they constantly have a smartphone near them. The desire to collect something doesn't necessarily go away because the person is extroverted, but because the nature of what they wish to collect is portable and can be accessed at any time, even if they go overseas, they always want to have their collection with them.

1/2

>>19179468
The second is that introverted otaku who prefer to spend time at home and by themselves now have a new means to do a number of things; show off their collection to a large group of likeminded people via the internet, customize their collection (for example Granblue Fantasy allows you to 'build' your characters), and importantly, not miss out on a certain collectible should another person acquire it. Certain physical collectibles may only be produced in a limited run or have a limited availability, whereas gacha games allow you go get ahold of pretty much any character as long as you're willing to spend the money or play when they are available, in the case of limited time availability. Obviously though, physical collectibles being limited may be a desirable aspect, so I'm not too sure about that point. I think the other big thing is that allowing a certain level of customization for these characters, again using GBF as an example, allows these otaku to feel more personal with them, similar to how people talk about bonds with Pokemon being formed after finding them at a low level, evolving them and maxing out their level and transferring them across generations. I guess this paragraph was poorly written.

I have a friend who spends large amounts of money on Shadowverse because he wants animated cards. The animated cards don't do anything different than their nonanimated counterparts except they have small looped particle effects within the card artwork and gold text for a name instead of just white. He said that he doesn't collect any figures or physical otaku merchandise, and when I asked him why, he said that because he spends most of his time on the internet (Shadowverse is his main game) he wants to collect things in the game and see pretty things where he spends his time; his domain is the internet, not his room.

What I'm unsure about in my 'model' is, in the case of introverted otaku, they would rather pour their money into a gacha game rather than into collectibles for their room, and spend their other money on nongacha cute outfits in an MMO or something. Maybe its because they still go out, commute to work and so on, or maybe its because they like to feel like they're raising and supporting the characters.

I feel like I could write more about this but my thoughts are too disorganized at the moment and I don't think I've done a good job so far.

>>19179468
>even if they have very few people or noone at all to show it off to. They spend most of their time in their rooms and are happy with what they have, even if noone sees it, and they aren't exposed to minimally few other collections.
Is this really the case for anything larger than a small fraction of pre-web otaku? From what I understand, before the web existed there was a healthy scene of fanzines, university circles and tape trading networks.

>>19179807
I'm probably wrong on that then, sorry.

>>19179917
The problem with that assupmtion lies here:
>They had put in alot of time, effort and money (given the inaccessibility of the internet then) into tracking down each of those tapes and acquiring them.
By very definition, this kind of activity requires the otaku to be at the very least actively searching stores, conventions, and magazines. More realistically, a large collection would be attained by the aforementioned methods, in addtion to having a social network wthin the otaku community, allowing tapes, etc, to spread from person to person. Personally I wasn't active in the pre-web days, but nearly all stories I have read/heard from that time involve a large amount of interpersonal relations, which seem to have been required in order to get the goods you wanted.

>>19179917
I don't think it invalidates your entire argument, you just need to fill in a couple of potholes. I still enjoyed reading it.

>>19168598
Now that liking Japanese stuff seems to have become popular among normalfags everything went to shit. I'm obviously not going to drop out because this is my life and it's too late to change my ways, and also because I'm hopeful that those people will hop over to the next big trend just like they always do soon enough.

>>19181286
To protect Otaku Culture we have to be as gross and embarrassing as possible.
Basically if we can preserve the loser image, and make everyone feel really uncomfortable then we can win.
/jp/ and the like has to start flooding cons, being really stinky and gross to women, making jokes in front of the cosplayers faces about how they look like shit and can never match the 2D original (but they can still suck our dicks if they beg).
Rape jokes are naturally a must, better yet are thinly veiled rape threats.
This has to be coupled with an online "anime==incel-loser" campaign.
If women stop trying to be into otaku things, normalfags in general will have no desire to continue being interested in Anime and the like.

It's likely that this plan won't backfire.
Nobody of us wants to do this, naturally, but to protect our place in this world, this has to be done.

>>19181496
This method was tried with poo poo pee pee pepe but ended in failure.

>>19181496
>flooding cons, being really stinky and gross to women
That's just normal con goers

>>19181496
>/jp/ and the like has to start flooding cons, being really stinky and gross to women, making jokes in front of the cosplayers faces about how they look like shit and can never match the 2D original (but they can still suck our dicks if they beg).
>Rape jokes are naturally a must, better yet are thinly veiled rape threats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G9mNBUymP8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25jKeJ28dSQ

>>19181496
punks tried to do that in the 70s and early 80s. people will always take scissors and cut out the profitable bits of any subculture to sanitize and sell for profit.

>>19180109
I suppose you're right. I only considered it from the idea that the collector might know the locations of a handful of shops that get rare tapes in or go to second hand stores, garage sale etc. But I suppose like trading cards, trading anything requires another person who wants what you have.

I also think this thread is relevant >>19179246 particularly >>19179435
>There's a scene in Lucky Star that references this shift from an otaku community to a blob of individualized, atomized customers of otaku goods. Some prick gets into a fight with kyoani booth staff at comiket and Konata says how more and more people like said prick, who only view themselves as customers, are showing up and ruining things for older otaku. These truotaku understood that comiket was supposed to be a collective effort by both circles and readers of dojinshi.

>>19183400
That last quote reminds me of this for some reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YqfaN2-dXY&t=5

>>19168976
>further division of anime fans into the yuri-moe, harem, and BL-bishounen factions so that it's hard to find an anime where boys and girls just interact normally.
I couldn't put it into words but I thought about this the other day. There's a bunch of old anime that are consider classics that old /a/ loved (and a lot of older anime fans) that I think wouldn't be liked if they came out today. For exemple Utena, Marimite or Ouran High School. They'd have their audience still, but I think the division of anime fans like you said means they wouldn't be discussed in as many places.

>>19181496
as soon as normals enter a subculture it's impossible to get them out, i'm afraid we just have to live with it.

>>19169081
- Mainstream "otaku culture" in the West (die-hard antisocial Japanese-learning social basket cases like /jp/ excluded) is no longer its own weird thing and has blended into merely one facet of a larger "nerd culture."

You can thank places like Twitter, Youtube and also streaming platforms for it. The easy access to content, the fact memes existed and were being sent outside or made outside the site really did not help lol. Its exactly as you mentioned which did blend over here due to people feeling left out of regular society.

But let me tell you something funny. Anime use to be a niche and now it's not. But like all things it will go back to being a niche again due the casual audiences never staying for long. I always see corrections happen in society and it will happen again. Things will get back to normal.

>>19181286
>>19181496
I would not say it's over. Its like all things, they grow and become something, then once it loses its luster people leave or move on. But i do get what you mean about the normalfags, those that are like "dude i like that anime" "i watched that anime" and its obvious they watch a few or do not play that many games. Those people eventually find something new with their time.

I just say let things run their course.

>>19185096
I love Komugi

>>19186090
they will be replaced by younger normals and ironic weebs.

Just looking at the history of /jp/ you can see massive changes over time.
For example when people stopped discussing VNs here and all fled to /vg/ for whatever. Calling /jp/ "icky" and stuff.
And with that other topics, Touhou included suffered too. I mean nowadays there is even a constant Touhou thread on /vg/ instead of people making threads here.

/jp/ has gone through many awful times and I certainly did not like when /jp/ was all overpopulated and stuff. But I can't deny that it feels really weird for /jp/ to be an empty shell of its former self. With all the supposedly "hip & cool" places looking down on /jp/.
And I mean I am used to being looked down upon. That's nothing new. And there are still plenty of hardcore dudes still around on /jp/. But it feels really different and weird to be looked down upon by others who still engage in the same hobby. That's new for me. Kind of at the very least.

>>19168598

I can only speak for Otaku culture in 09 up until today at least. My memory is sketchy but i do remember how communities were back then until today.

I always felt like Otaku communities were more divided. You had the normal types in forums, some that used social networks that made their own stuff, and you had 4chan. It felt like everything had it's own culture to it. Back in 09 there really was not much people, memes were not really made to be a thing and when they were especially on here. It was made to be with humor in mind and to enter the most random thoughts and silliest things. That is usually the strength of Otaku culture itself and the imageboard together.

Now everything feels like it's connected because everyone is on more than one platform, they want to take screenshots of this site and try to act like they are cool or into this culture when unironically they are just fakes that want likes and attention for narcissism. Especially things on youtube that try to cover this and make it "their job". It reminds me a lot of the Let's Play genre on youtube. While there are still some that exist its not as big of a genre as it use to be anymore. I have a feeling eventually normalfags are going to leave and they mostly have(i looked at stats that shows that the user visits have been lowering down for at least the last 4 months straight) which is good because it does mean everything bottoms out and things can renew itself again focusing on OC, random stuff, and doing things for fun rather than just repeating the same shit over and over again.

>>19168975
The problem with Wapanese which turned later into Weaboo's it always felt like these edgy kids that took pictures of themselves to try and prove they were fans of an anime or they knew Otaku culture when it was obvious they did not.

>>19186194
because trying to talk about english translated VNs on /jp/ gets your thread deleted, if the janitors were less autistic it wouldn't be an issue but the circumstances being what they are, there is no choice but to go to /vg/.

>>19186186
Absolutely. Everything reloads like a cycle. Which is important, you always need some new users and the old. But the normalfag invasion was crazy for the last 2-3 years. I had never seen all my favorite boards go to shit that badly. /v/ still has it the worst as the same shitpost spam exists, then you had /g/ which was in overdrive. Even Pol users became worse because they tried inserting all their political nonsense on the rest of the boards more than usual.

But like i mentioned before the normalfags are moving on and its about time. But we do have new users which hopefully produces good results.

>>19168598
>weeb

>>19168598
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as weeb, is in fact, Wapanese/Weeaboo, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, Wapanese plus Weeaboo. Weeaboo is not a meaningful term itself, but rather another freeform offshoot of the fully functioning Wapanese term made by combining the vital word components Wannabe and Japanese.
Many internet users use a modified version of the term Wapanese every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of Wapanese which is widely used today is often called “weeb”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the term Weeaboo, developed from the term Wapanese. There really is a weeb, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the original word.
Weeaboo is the real term: the alternative to using the original while being able to maintain the same meaning and nuance. Weeb are essential letters in the spelling of the full term, but useless by themselves; they can only function in the context of the complete term. Weeb is normally used in combination with three more letters: the whole thing is basically Wapanese with Weeaboo added, or Wapanese/Weeaboo. All the uses of the so-called “weeb” are really uses of Wapanese/Weeaboo.

Is mobile shit really that attractive for a modern otaku? People are spending shitload of money on gacha but I simply don't see the appeal. And it's not just Japan and even west is injected with it to some degree. Is collecting copy paste girls really the future?

>>19186489

It's just another form, the latest form, of ages old cute girls sell things.

>>19186232
>because trying to talk about english translated VNs on /jp/ gets your thread deleted
That's because they make threads like "now that the dust has settled, we can all agree Saya no Uta was overrated, right?" instead of a normal thread discussing a VN.

>>19186518
I'm aware. But still it feels, unpersonal, dispassionate, would be the right word here? I don't know how to describe it. It just feels off.

>>19186556
Pandering? Souless and corporate?

I wonder if AKB is responsible for this quantity over quality girls trend and it moved to idol games trend which turned into collecting girls trend.

>>19186592
I don't know much about AKB, but I think the quantity thing produces a quality of its own. People have a predisposition towards a certain type of character. For example, one of my favorite types of characters are the ones that are usually serious and don't show much emotion or say alot, such as Rin in Yurucamp or Rin in Cinderella Girls, while other people like an infinite number of other appearances and personality types. Having such a wide cast of characters in a gacha game lets someone find the character that is just right for them, rather than settling with a character that they might like in some ways, but not be overly keen on in others. I'm fairly certain this is the appeal of large idol units too, where the girls personalities are marketed by showing off tidbits of their personalities through body language, interviews and things like that, and having many girls in the mix allows fans to chase after their favorite one.

>>19168598
People use the word "waifu" to describe literally any anime girl. Hell, not even just anime girls anymore but western cartoon girls and just about anything. I fucking hate this. For example, "haha does the game have waifus bro" is the kind of shit you hear. I absolutely hate waifu faggotry but I at least have a tiny bit more respect for the old school guys who are dedicated to their "waifu". I still hate it in that sense too but every fucking newfag just spams the fuck out the word. Anything with cute anime girls is immediately "waifushit" or "moeshit" for example. I just feel like there's so much normalfaggotry and posers. I know a guy who's obsessed with Youtube and exclusively just watches anime reviews. When I asked how many shows he's actually watched, he named only like a few entry-level shounen anime and that's it. His entire opinion on things is influenced by all this faggot youtube culture. He literately is unable to sit down and focus on watching an anime or playing a game other than CoD. I also hate you faggots that use "weeb" to describe anything Japanese. Fucking stop, it's obnoxious and the biggest newfag indicator. Nobody who's actually into this stuff labels themselves as a weeb or otaku. You don't like this shit to try and fit an image.

>>19190540
>People use the word "waifu" to describe literally any anime girl. Hell, not even just anime girls anymore but western cartoon girls and just about anything. I fucking hate this.
autism

>Nobody who's actually into this stuff labels themselves as an otaku
untrue

>>19190896
You shouldn't label yourself as otaku or weeb unless you're an absolute faggot. And please tell me you're not actually defending the rampant use of waifu.

>>19190985
Waifu never meant anything. There's nothing to defend about it and it's autistic to get mad at people not following you personal definition of it. The word itself is dumb because japs would wither say wife or use the japanese word. Otaku is used to describe one's self just like nerds call themselves nerds and fags call themselves fags.

Getting angry over those things is just overcompensating.

>>19191007
What are you even talking about? It's a dumb old meme that's spammed to death and used to refer to literally any anime girl now. It used to be for the guys who get all legitimately dedicated to one girl and make shrines for her. Now it's just used for goddamn everything. I like cute anime girls but they're not "waifu" by default. It's obnoxious as fuck. And otaku and weaboo have negative connotations. Have some self respect, you don't refer to yourself as one. You have tons of newfags that do this and think they're "such otaku or weebs" for liking an anime or two. That's what I'm talking about here. People who are actually into this don't go around trying to fit the "otaku" image. They just enjoy the shit they enjoy.

Fundamentally, the way that Japanese otaku culture changed, the way that Western "otaku culture" has changed, and the way that /jp/ + 4chan have changed are three parallel

>>19191047
>And otaku and weaboo have negative connotations. Have some self respect, you don't refer to yourself as one.
Otaku know they're otaku. They refer to each other as otaku. By and large they are aware that society doesn't consider it a positive thing but between not caring what society thinks, the term being an accurate description, and a lot of them being inherently self-deprecating people they continue to use the term anyway. Fundamentally if you just took your own advice and decided to "enjoy the shit that you enjoy" you wouldn't care that some people out there have co-opted some terms into meaning things they didn't originally mean.

And for every hundred people who used the term waifu ten years ago when Lucky Star was hot, maybe five of them - maximum - really took the term to heart (as in, they've dedicated their whole life to a girl for the last ten years, even though they're reaching their 30s now, and plan to keep that girl's photo in their wallet even as their hair turns gray and their former classmate's children start getting married.) These people are EXTRAORDINARILY RARE. The other ninety-five percent were in it for the memes. It was always a meme.

Fundamentally, the way that Japanese otaku culture changed, the way that Western "otaku culture" has changed, and the way that /jp/ + 4chan have changed are three parallel tracks that influence other but are their own very separate things.

>>19191047
>And otaku and weaboo have negative connotations. Have some self respect, you don't refer to yourself as one.
Otaku know they're otaku. They refer to each other as otaku. By and large they are aware that society doesn't consider it a positive thing but between not caring what society thinks, the term being an accurate description, and a lot of them being inherently self-deprecating people they continue to use the term anyway. Fundamentally if you just took your own advice and decided to "enjoy the shit that you enjoy" you wouldn't care that some people out there have co-opted some terms into meaning things they didn't originally mean.

And for every hundred people who used the term waifu ten years ago when Lucky Star was hot, maybe five of them - maximum - really took the term to heart (as in, they've dedicated their whole life to a girl for the last ten years, even though they're reaching their 30s now, and plan to do it until they day they die.) These people are EXTRAORDINARILY RARE. The other ninety-five percent were in it for the memes. It was always a meme.

>>19191007
that's not his personal definition though, it's how the term has always been used. doubt the meaning ever changed aside from facebook weebs or whatever
>>19191047
/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>19191220
>not caring what society thinks

No one except the insane or dead truly doesn't care what society thinks. It's just that there are some people whose situation is so hopeless they know that whether they call themselves it or not, everyone else will, so it doesn't matter what they say.

>>19191325
>No one except the insane or dead truly doesn't care what society thinks.
I care what, for example, my coworkers think, because they determine the status of my employment and so on, plus various people I interact with on a daily basis, but I really don't give a shit what society at large thinks about what I do in my spare time.

>whose situation is so hopeless they know that whether they call themselves it or not, everyone else will, so it doesn't matter what they say.
I genuinely can't understand why you give a shit if people who factually fit every definition of otaku in the book refer to themselves as otaku or consider it a bad thing, or why you think they shouldn't.

>>19191344
He just thinks he's a tru-otaku and don't want to be associated with "posers"

>>19191323
Waifu was only ever used by facebook weebs. The Japanese "x is my wife" was always a meme joke.

>>19168598
i enjoyed it originally when it was autistic in like 2004-2009 ish. now it feels commercialized in a different way. cosplay especially gets berated if it isnt to a pro level or a purchased costume. plus the memes and macros stopped being fun, theyre so aggressive for the most part now.

Everything got worse as it got infected with EOPs.

>>19168976
>Even duing the time lots of VNs were being made into anime it seems like they still stayed a niche, but now all of a sudden the west is trying to make them mainstream or something.

This phenomenon is way more limited than it might seem.

>>19191467
Whatever helps you sleep at night
https://i.4cdn.org/f/ronery.swf

Why are people blaming normalfags for ruining their hobby and then talking about normalfags instead of actually discussing the hobby?

>>19192098
Because they occupy the space we used to find one another and communicate with each other.
Also, why are you projecting? Just because we are complaining, doesn't mean that we don't also discuss.

>>19191047
>And otaku and weaboo have negative connotations.
Specifically with the term otaku in Japan, I feel like it was only super bad right after the otaku murders. Aside from the that, the only time it was really negative was if you called a normie an otaku. Kind of like in ye olde days, if you called a jock a nerd, they'd beat you up and throw you in a locker or whatever. At least that's what we can infer from stuff like Otaku no Video, that fact Gainax co-founder Toshio Okada refers to himself and is fondly referred to as The Otaking, Genshiken, Lucky Star, Otakon from MGS, and to a certain extent Welcome to the NHK. And because in the west we didn't have the otaku murders to color public perception, plus the fact that all of the media that came over from Japan depicted "otaku" as meaning "anime/manga fan", it makes sense that that's what people ran with. Kind of like how bronies and trekkies have their own names.

It also makes sense that people started using "weeaboo" and "weeb" endearingly. Again, I can only speculate because the word wasn't really present in the forums I visited at the time. It seems like people started using the word weeaboo to apply to literally anyone who liked anime, as evidenced by the "weeaboo cringe compilations" that were popular within my circle of friends. So naturally, people would start to call their friends weeaboo as a joke, and it spread from there.

Sorry to vomit so much word at you, but I was thinking about this shit beforehand and thought I'd share all my thoughts.

>>19192213
The OP specifically asks how Otaku culture changed through the last few years. "New people got in" isn't really a significant change. If we stop witch hunting normies then it's much easier to find one another and communicate about what really matters, Japanese drawings of fictional girls.

>>19191590
The number is going down most likely, not up.

>>19192513
normies != newfags.
New people getting in is not a problem, it can be good even, the problem is when the new people getting in don't fit in, nor try to.
They start to become the majority, and change the spirit of the places that people made for themselves.
Even when they aren't doing it actively, one can still feel it.

I was looking at >>19186386 and was reminded of the time when 2hu didn't monopolize fan games. Provided it was hard to get games before around the time it became popular, there were still lots of memorable old fangames of various works, mostly VNs though it seemed. Then Touhou blew up and everyone started putting Touhou girls in their games instead of anything else. I don't really like that it dominates doujin culture as much as it does, but then it might not be that it's popular or safe(to put in games you sell without being sued), it might just be that there's less stuff that absorbs into the net/otaku/doujin culture as a whole. Other than the newer generation mobage, nothing really sticks into the collective minds of otaku for as long, it seems. (I feel like some KF fan is going to show up crying about how it could have been the next big thing, and I want to preemptively point out that it's just GDGD Fairies style cheap animation crossed with moe anthropomorphism/girl collections games, not really distinct from Kancolle or anything.)

I don't know really know the reason there hasn't been anything either. You'd think something since even 2010 would have stuck. I can't think of any influential VN, though there has to be some. Madoka didn't even get as stuck in as Nanoha. (I wonder what the reason they don't make more series with the idea is) There are kinda clones of it, but it's hard to call them clones when it didn't really do anything new. It's more like a revival of My-HiME type stuff. I can't even remember anything else that was hyped. Shingeki no Kyoujin maybe.

>>19186227
>It reminds me a lot of the Let's Play genre on youtube. While there are still some that exist its not as big of a genre as it use to be anymore. I have a feeling eventually normalfags are going to leave and they mostly have(i looked at stats that shows that the user visits have been lowering down for at least the last 4 months straight) which is good because it does mean everything bottoms out and things can renew itself again focusing on OC, random stuff, and doing things for fun rather than just repeating the same shit over and over again.
I suppose, but it's easy to fool yourself into thinking that this process means that "things will go back to the way they were." They almost certainly won't, even if the genre depopulates it won't go back to being a way for Something Awful forum users to showcase old and rare games. People will adapt the genre to the current technological and economic environment. Who knows what that will turn out to be.
>>19186255
What I've written above for genres also stands true, I think, for communities. Each generation of users leaves its mark on the culture: it discards old traditions, or modifies them. It creates new ones. Knowledge is either institutionalized and archived or ignored and left to fade away. Once in control of the community, it can interact and align itself with outside factions in the culture wars or isolate itself and drive off foreign intrusions. Most of these changes are irreversible.

>>19190473
This is kind of why I hate idol anime/manga. Good stories have fleshed-out characters with depth to their personalities. These characters interact with each other, go through struggles, and evolve as they overcome (or are broken by) their struggles.

In idol anime, these kind of changes are big risks to take in terms of keeping the characters profitable, since their appeal is in their specific character archetypes. Would Anzu be profitable if her parents fell ill and required expensive home care, motivating her to stop being a NEET and work harder? Would Rin still be popular if she decided she wanted full control over her life and became a producer, ditching skirts for pantsuits? I think that in many cases, fans would be alienated by these changes and would probably abandon the franchise.

On a related note, I find it fascinating that these types of frozen-in-time characters. Looking back, you can see the seeds of them stretching back as far as fucking Azumanga Daioh. I found that moe characters that changed the least retained the greatest staying power among the diehard basement dweller types. Osaka and Yuno from Hidamari Sketch are still popular among adult and adolescent men who were born when those characters were first created. They're also, by far, the most memorable characters among otaku who were adolescents during the 00s. Meanwhile, there's an entire cohort of former WataMote fans disgruntled by Tomoko's ability to socialize developing over the previous year and a half. Look at the progression of the typical otaku (born 1992-95) as depicted in >>19169081: series with characters that grow and change as the story progresses (Madoka, Asuna, Mikoto, and even Yui to an extent) fade in prominence within otaku circles as idol and browser games dominate.

Is there any larger shift pushing people towards these gacha-waifus, or are diehard forum-dwellers naturally inclined to go for women who will never change?

>>19190540
Anime jargon always gets abused and corrupted, and one of the hardest things a Westerner could ever do in his life is construct a coherent sentence about anime. So instead we get brain damaged observations like "this generic waifushit pedobait is pandering to autistic weebs in order to sell bodypillows," when describing K-On for example.

>>19191467
There are otaku in Japan who are serious about it just as there are in the West.

>>19192236
>And because in the west we didn't have the otaku murders to color public perception, plus the fact that all of the media that came over from Japan depicted "otaku" as meaning "anime/manga fan", it makes sense that that's what people ran with.
They did for a while, but today "otaku" are public enemy number one. They are the lowest of the low and responsible for every imaginary problem anime has. Of course, when people are talking about "otaku" they are talking about a ridiculous strawman with little relation to reality.

>>19193238
Kemono Friends was carried by more than just cute girls, it was an extremely well made anime with an interesting story and setting. It was also a huge mainstream hit.

>>19168975
>I'm not really sure when "otacool" happened myself.
The term "weeb" became disparaging and commonplace around maybe 2005 in the west, and lasted until fairly recently. Before that Japanese culture was still too niche to really be uncool except in Japan.

I have been able to track this trend perfectly with my disgusting normie younger brother, who turned into an asshole in Jr. high and pretended he never liked anime and now that he's in his 20s and all his garbage friends watch CR its practically mainstream.

I would say the shift occurred around 2015 in the USA, when I saw some trickle of renwed interest in the original Dragonball and One Piece.

I think Jojo was the official turning point, though if you want to narrow it down to a specific catalyst,.

>>19194155
>Would Rin still be popular if she decided she wanted full control over her life and became a producer, ditching skirts for pantsuits?
Worked for Ritsuko

>Would Anzu be profitable if her parents fell ill and required expensive home care, motivating her to stop being a NEET and work harder?
Would be like with Miki

But then the original im@s girls have the benefit of being in actual games and having actual storylines.

>>19179807
>>19179917
>>19180109
>>19183400
Looking back on these posts, I got to thinking: these super-obsessive otaku who focus on collecting goods over participating within a community probably preferred to stay cooped up in their Tolkien-style dragon caves full of VHS gold. However, their obsession with character goods and tapes outweighed their social anxiety, depression, etc. and forced them to develop the minimum social skills required to trade tapes, collect fanzines & dojinshi, get information on the latest underground content, and so on. When it became possible to reliably transfer large files and order affordable products online, these people naturally retreated into their caves and interacted solely through the safety of 2ch, NND and then social media.
>>19186010
Normals can enter a subculture and integrate flawlessly - the Doctor Who fanbase was for decades composed of incredibly normal people who still ran elaborate fansites hardcoded in vanilla html. These "eccentrics" were usually a positive influence on the community, since they were competent enough to participate without getting sucked into flame wars or livejournal-tier drama.
I think that a community enters permanent decline when CONSUMERS enter en masse, since adding profit motives to any community always results in a permanent rewiring of relations between community members. You no longer have a unified community with a shared understanding of what's in the community's best interest, since the prospect of profits will create competition between certain community members. Members will start hoarding content to have a competitive edge against other creators. And a corporate hierarchy will be established with creators and franchise owners at the top, dictating what consumers at the bottom will consume.

Consumers might even begin rebelling against creators/managers from time to time (see gamergate) but these conflicts are more likely to create factions within a community or pit one community against another. Go back in time to 2008 and it would be almost impossible to tell an anime fan's political beliefs from his/her favourite franchise. However nowadays someone with a GuP avi probably posts on /pol/ and someone with a LWA avi probably posts on tumblr or weird twitter. Hell, you even have centrists adopting anime like CroHigh as their mascots. This is what happens when "what you consume" becomes the sole defining factor of your identity!

>>19194273
>Anime jargon always gets abused and corrupted, and one of the hardest things a Westerner could ever do in his life is construct a coherent sentence about anime. So instead we get brain damaged observations like "this generic waifushit pedobait is pandering to autistic weebs in order to sell bodypillows," when describing K-On for example.
Word salad like this has been a problem in English literature for about as long as literature and literacy was available to the masses. While he's discussing political writing, George Orwell's essay "Politics in the English Language" applies to our discussions:
http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit
I'm going to highlight a few choice quotes, but anyone who cares about this discussion should read the entire essay.

>MEANINGLESS WORDS. In certain kinds of writing, particularly in art criticism and literary criticism, it is normal to come across long passages which are almost completely lacking in meaning(2). Words like romantic, plastic, values, human, dead, sentimental, natural, vitality, as used in art criticism, are strictly meaningless, in the sense that they not only do not point to any discoverable object, but are hardly ever expected to do so by the reader.
>As I have tried to show, modern writing at its worst does not consist in picking out words for the sake of their meaning and inventing images in order to make the meaning clearer. It consists in gumming together long strips of words which have already been set in order by someone else, and making the results presentable by sheer humbug. The attraction of this way of writing is that it is easy. It is easier — even quicker, once you have the habit — to say "In my opinion it is not an unjustifiable assumption" that than to say "I think." If you use ready-made phrases, you not only don't have to hunt about for the words; you also don't have to bother with the rhythms of your sentences since these phrases are generally so arranged as to be more or less euphonious. [...] By using stale metaphors, similes, and idioms, you save much mental effort, at the cost of leaving your meaning vague, not only for your reader but for yourself.
>In [example 5], words and meaning have almost parted company. People who write in this manner usually have a general emotional meaning — they dislike one thing and want to express solidarity with another — but they are not interested in the detail of what they are saying.

>>19194407
All of these developments didn't require the writers to alter the personalities or character archetypes of Ritsuko or Miki, though.

>>19194819
>All of these developments didn't require the writers to alter the personalities or character archetypes of Ritsuko or Miki, though.

It did with Miki at the least.

>>19194671
>their Tolkien-style dragon caves full of VHS gold.
Reminds me of pic

>However nowadays someone with a GuP avi probably posts on /pol/
Is this not because they are probably military/history obsessed and those tend to be /pol/ types?

>>19195031
Miki's awakening is played down or partly ignored in subsequent games and in the anime

>>19195093
I think it's more a combination of military fetishization and preference for a specific character archetype. Otherwise, there would probably be a variety of GuP characters in their avis, but 90% of them feature Yukari from what I've seen.

>>19168598

>>19194155
>Is there any larger shift pushing people towards these gacha-waifus, or are diehard forum-dwellers naturally inclined to go for women who will never change?
You don't have to psycho-analyze it too much. Gacha games are just really fucking addictive, and the fact that they can be played on a phone means that otaku can't run away from them. They're the perfect trap.

>>19196512

Is this from Genshiken or Spotted Flower?

>>19197119
Genshiken

>>19194819
There is a clear difference between word salad and having a language, especially jargon, change over time. Waifu evolved from excessive dedication to a moe character to a sarcastic jab at that reality. This is not that uncommon of a change and you still know exactly what someone is complaining about if they say that something is waifushit.

Language is fluid.

>>19198011
"Waifushit" doesn't make sense. No anime or game comes with wives built-in. It's taking something subjective and turning it into something objective. Language may be fluid but it also has to make sense, and if your language doesn't make sense then you are just plain not making sense.

>>19197113
I believe the excessive psycho-analysis to come from the fact there is a massive disconnect of understanding between those who enjoy such games and those who don't, neither is able to understand the others mindset, It is as if there is a switch thats either turned on or off that determines one's capacity for the addiction required to continue playing gacha games for the amount of time they expect.

I personally believe that they tickle the addiction centers of addiction prone people of a demographic that is less likely than the typical population to fall into the usual addictive activities or substances.

The large shift that appears to be going on is a result of smartphones, most everyone has one, and it's usually on them at all times. Its quite difficult to watch an anime or play challenging,involving games, in any sort of satisfying way on a smartphone, especially when you're outside or on a bus, thus gacha games were created as a sort of stopgap to allow otakus an easy form of media related to their primary interests that could be consumed outside of their homes. The problem is that the stopgap ended up providing what a large contingent of people wanted even better than the old media did. Why watch an anime hoping to see a girl that fits your exact tastes and hoping that she remains that way throughout. Why not just play a game that you see on the wiki has exactly the girls you're looking for, and gives you a form of ownership over them? Gacha games procide what the masses are looking for, they are not interested in stories or games or reading, or at least, not to the extent they desire attractive characters that feel tailor made to them through sheer number of variations produced, regardless of how little effort has gone into them beyond character design. There is no perfect waifu, only perfect waifus, and the way to perfect waifus is assembly line production .

>>19198253
Moe shit, shounenshit , and shounen itself don't make any sense but people still use those terms.

>70
SF shit
>80
SF and mecha shit
>90
Mecha and fantasy shit
>00
Fantasy and harem shit
>10
Harem and isekai shit

>>19198632
Shonen identifies the target audience. Moeshit is more subjective but refers to female character writing that tries so hard to make those characters cute and loveable that it hurts the quality of the writing.

>>19198495
I don't think it's just a single thing. A lot of games are like idol games, military oriented games, or fujoshi games. Those groups are likely to spend a lot, but games about a variety of appealing girls werepretty much always popular. VN related games make up a lot of the rest probably due to that. However there were things like Barcode Kanojo that were popular too. I'm not sure if Kancolle is even a gatcha game itself, but on re-reading I think you don't really mean gatcha oriented games anyway but just games with lots of girls.

People always liked microtransactions, that's why they're present in facebook type games and their descendants on phone systems and in MMORPGs, and even in games. A similar thing happens with dailies keeping people playing games. Then there's the phone/browser game aspect of being something you can do in a couple minutes without too much focus. Ultimately just using cute girls/boys and sometimes promises of ero content only extends this to otaku. I don't think it's replacing any inherent need within them. People still watch anime and play games, after all.

>>19198735
>Shonen identifies the target audience
Shounen is used nearly exclusively to mean "fighting series" by those who use it

>>19198735
>Moeshit is more subjective but refers to female character writing that tries so hard to make those characters cute and loveable that it hurts the quality of the writing.
Then why is this the first time I have ever heard this definition? (Moeshit doesn't actually mean anything.)

>>19198011
You aren't wrong, but I was basing my answer off of the example he gave. Sentences like "this generic waifushit pedobait is pandering to autistic weebs in order to sell bodypillows" to describe K-On belong to the lazy, unthinking style of writing Orwell was criticizing.

>>19198658
>SF
Sailor fuku?

>>19198780
>I don't think it's replacing any inherent need within them. People still watch anime and play games after all

My last few lines did imply that, but its less of something that replaces anime and games, and more of something that satisfies desire for a significant aspect (the characters) without needing an anime or full-fledged game, and thus makes it exceptionally appealling to certain tyoes of people. The real trouble arising from this is that gacha games are a lot easier to make than anime or other kinds of games since the gameplay and story are unimportant and the main thing required is character design, this makes them incredibly appealling for corporations to make as well since there's so little cost that almost no risk is involved even if doesn't catch on like FGO. Already I have seen the markets saturated with gachas both original or based off established franchises and it pains me that there's talent and passion being used for so mamy projects made entirely for easy profit with art never even being an afterthought.

>>19200025
>with art never even being an afterthought.
You mean art as in the concept right? Because making lods of emone for just drawing a character portrait every now an then sounds like an artist's (in the drawing sense) dream.

>>19200025
I find this sort of thing pretty distressing. I love the character designs and settings of Granblue Fantasy, but I tried playing it and the gameplay is so unappealing to the point that it seems like a joke. It's like a dumbed down version of traditional JRPGs, except you have to either get lucky with the gacha or pay for strong characters.
I'd love to play a game in the setting with a similar art style as an MMO or even a single player RPG, but I just can't swallow the gacha format. You end up spending as much time grinding in an unenjoyable button mashing simulator as you could playing a proper MMO.

But, as you said, there's less profit to be derived from spending all the time and effort in creating an MMO only to watch people leave when another one comes along. Easier and cheaper to make a mobage and sell merch based on that. For the same reason, I doubt we'll ever get another non-remake Fate game because of the amount of effort required for something that barely makes money compared to F/GO. I just choose to consume Granblue content by saving pictures of the characters rather than playing the game.

>>19200604
Yeah, I mean as in the concept, good drawings are good but they're just drawings, and especially in this case, they are more drawings than art, besides I doubt the artists are the ones making any significant portion of the massive profits from these games.
>>19201204
Type-moon now exists as a vessel to sell fate and fate exists as a means to sell FGO, I anticipate the series being milked for all its worth and becoming too big to be sustainable by the primary fans once the next big thing steals away the majority of the GO players.

>>19201204
Well, what can you expect? Budgets for traditional RPGs have exploded and yet piracy and competition from mobage/browser games is eating into profits. Outside of a handful of big name titles (Battlefield and Fallout will always have people buying the $200 collector's edition) it's just not possible to make these games without going bankrupt. For many studios gacha games keep the lights on. They're cheap to make, piracy isn't an issue since you're making revenue through microtransactions, and the graphics are usually good enough to hook a few whales who will produce just enough revenue to turn a profit.

>>19201204
>I'd love to play a game in the setting with a similar art style as an MMO or even a single player RPG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odAeEqQTIrU

I wish someone could make a good online card battle game about cute girls. The ones I know of all have had shitty rules.

>>19205818
Why dont YOU make one?

>>19208296
I'm too stuck in the shitty idea of using energy resource cards.

it's much easier to be a casual fan of something when you can just stream or download it in english in seconds/minutes. in the 90s and early 2000s you had to seek it out and even then the selection was limited to whatever you could get your hands on. there was a level of specialty that made finding others invested in the same hobby a rarity. of course this only applied to the west.
it's only logical that the fanbase now is more diffuse, shallow, and ironic. or rather just expanded, including more levels of interest.
that said as far as online culture goes i don't see the same explosion of creativity we had from 2008-2012 or so, but that may just be due to 4chan's shifting demographics, so i may just be missing out on the modern equivalent of iosys videos being spammed across all boards.

>>19168598
I've never been an otaku, just a fan.
I don't interact with the anime&manga community outside of the internet anyway.

>>19209484
What are you doing on /jp/ - Otaku culture then?

>>19181496
So you're a hipster faggot?

>>19209166
One way to think of it could be like a set of stairs. The more invested in a culture/hobby/whatever, the higher up the stairs you are and the more effort it takes to get there. Back in the day the first step to be a fan of anime, manga, etc, was something like 1m high. Most people probably could have climbed it, but why would you bother? On the other hand, with the internet that first step is about 5mm tall. You might just stumble onto it without ever realising. No wonder all the "ironic" retards make their way in. On the other hand, actually being creative and creating new content, or modifiyng existing cntent still has much of the same effort required to it. Photoshop makes image editing easier but the basic facts of needing both an idea and the skill to put it together haven't changed. As such, in a population where everyone crossed a 1m high step, many people would also be willing to cross the next 2m high step. However, in a population that has crossed a 5mm high step, there will be a much lower portion of people who are willing to jump up the 2m.

>>19194155
I'm not sure I fit the archetype you're describing exactly, but the reason I like Yuno and Osaka isn't because they're static, I like Osaka because her bizarre autism leads her to do things that to me, are unthinkably strange and funny, and Yuno because of her really positive outlook on life, which I try to force myself emulate when I feel down. I will admit i'm a bit pathological when it comes to Tomoko learning to socialize and come out of her shell though, I know that I should end up feeling happy for her or something, but seeing her succeed in places I've already failed makes me feel worthless and a bit jealous, I know that's wrong though and I try to push it down. So I don't think that static characters are necessarily more attractive to basket case losers, I think that character archetypes that they can relate to, and therefore wallow in despair with, or are positive and happy enough to transfuse meaningfulness into their lives are what attracts them to these sorts of character types.
That said, I don't really think that static character types are taking over too much, there are still lots of good anime being made, Land Of The Lustrous for example doesn't just feature fluid characters, but the morals of the story are all about change and maturation, Girls' Last Tour was another good recent manga that got an anime adaptation, and there are lots of other anime/manga where characters change, I think that the extreme popularity of idol shows in the west might just be a weird obsession that ironic facebook-type weebs that use "waifu" to refer to any female anime character and say sentences that include the words "lewd the" are pushing right now. And I think that the reason a lot of nips are playing gacha might have to do with the lack of marriage and births in japan, gacha games seem like they help fulfill the desire to care for something, sort of like cat ladies, but with moe anime girls.
I'm really tired right now and afraid this won't make any sense so sorry if it doesn't.

>>19186186
We already are in that phase. By the time those people grow up and move on to something else this entire "ironic weeaboo" wave should be done and over, hell it even seems to be already losing steam (or at least it doesn't seem to be anywhere as strong as it used to be exactly a year ago).

>>19186289
Also thank you, I wanted to point that out but this OP seems to be a reasonable person so I let him go.

>>19198997
"Moeshit" basically means "thing I dislike that has cute 2D girls". It's about as retarded as it sounds, so feel free to ignore anyone who says that term. And with the current usage, "waifushit" means "thing I dislike that has girls", so it's somehow even more retarded.

>>19198011
That's not evolution at all, "waifu" is exactly how people adapted the "ore no yome" thing this side of the world thanks to that teacher from Azumanga Daioh and regardless of whether people using it were being sarcastic or not, it still meant that they held whatever character they considered their waifu in high regards. Nowadays, as that other anon said, people use it for literally any 2D girl ever. I'm completely convinced that this usage started because of some completely uninformed idiot misunderstood the term's intent and started spamming it on social media, attracting even more uninformed idiots who then became the majority and thus led into our current situation. There's no other explanation. I guess something that proves it is the term "husbando", which started being used by people who wanted to refer to male characters long after "waifu" got popular. It never got corrupted by the aforementioned idiots due to its relatively low usage, and thanks to the death of the original "waifu" it simply stopped being used at all. At the same time, "daughteru" also started seeing some use, but given how most of the people who do so like to get mad at the sexualization of 2D characters it's safe to assume that they're the same kind of idiot as the ones who ruined "waifu" in first place.

By the way, I never thought I'd see anyone defend that current usage of "waifu" on /jp/. What the fuck happened to this place.

>>19214884
You know, the moment this ironic weeb phase ends normalfags are gonna hate loli again.

>>19215429
Normalfags have always hated loli and still do. It's been controversial ever since it became it's own subgenre. People still go around bitching about loli and it's consumers. Hell, remember that thing with the British lady who did a thing about "young sex for sale in Japan", and was all pissy about Girls und Panzer, and even told the creator when she was interviewing him that she was basically on a witchhunt to catch all pedophiles and child exploitation, and that she considered Girls und Panzer to be that. Girls und Panzer isn't even pedophiliac in the slightest, ephiophiliac (think that's the term), if anything. Hell, that FBI meme turned from self-deprecating humor from otakus/lolicons to people actually wanting lolicons to go to prison and acting like they were offending pedophiles. People are shitty about "all pedophiles are obviously offending pedophiles", but that's a different topic alltogether. Thought crimes are in, guys.

I've learned to stop care about "otaku culture."

I idolized the "cool" people back when I still saw things with sparkly young eyes back in 2007-ish back when 2ch/niconico culture was just starting to gain mainstream acceptance and I yearned for a real life genshiken community. (admittedly still kinda do)

I still fondly remember those memories, but nowadays the people with opinions/expertise/skills that I give two shits about wouldn't really spend all day shitposting on /jp/.

At a certain point you can't help but realize /jp/ as a community isn't especially knowledgeable about the topics aside from a small pool of certain individuals in certain threads. 5 seconds of googling in Japanese will usually get you better insights into whatever topic is being talked about here.

Unfortunately, 5ch and 5ch based internet culture is absolutely cancerous loser-mentality. (The system is RIGGED, fucking WOMEN, fucking COMPANY, etc...) It's even worse than /pol/ or /r9k/. I'm not even a damn SJW, but the loser culture is a bit too much.

There's nowhere to go in terms of an actual cozy "community" that isn't just a meme echo-chamber unless you specifically know exactly who you're looking for and where to find them.

>>19215510
I think he meant that there are quite a bit of normalfag ironic weebs who are lolicons, but yeah usually people not associated with anime at all hate lolicon.
And that GuP thing pisses me off so bad, there are some actual problems with sexualization of real children in japan, like some of the idol industry, but they chose to focus on a manga that's not even pornographic, it commits the crime of telling a cute and fun story about teenage girls, what the fuck.

>>19215510
he didn't have a loli license

>>19215966
>I think he meant that there are quite a bit of normalfag ironic weebs who are lolicons, but yeah usually people not associated with anime at all hate lolicon.

Combine those two together and you'd get what I meant. The ironic weebs increase the amount of people who are exposed to anime and thus think loli stuff is less of a big deal. Because of that, you can get people complaining about censorship of games, and less people whining about, say, lewd MMD or SFM videos about lolis or whatever. Once that dies out, it'll go back to just people demonizing anime as being hentai and child abuse or whatever. Actual "otaku" are too pussy to be openly pro-loli so this is the only "positive" semi-mainstream exposure its gonna get.

>there are some actual problems with sexualization of real children in japan, like some of the idol industry
Explain. Do you just mean "videos about people under 18 in swimwear are bad" or "the idol industry makes teenagers sing lyrics like 'fuckathon me'" or something else?

>>19215429
Good. I'd rather see normalfags go back to being angry at lolicons than pretending to like lolis and spamming NOT FOR LEWD or DON'T SEXUALIZE everywhere they go.

>>19216245
He might be talking about junior idols. Admittedly I don't know much, but the impression I got was that this is a pretty niche thing. Though of course, for a true crusader even one instance of heresy is enough to launch the whole fleet.

>>19216979
>He might be talking about junior idols.
In which case it goes to
>"videos about people under 18 in swimwear are bad"

This was a really interesting thread, thank you! This is when lurking on /jp/ pays off

>>19168598
I became aware of otaku culture in 2012/2013 so my view isn't really very long. There have been a couple of specific things that changed or happened though, that personally affected me (though I can't tell if they are really relevant)

- Kizuna AI and virtual Youtubers became a smash hit. I think they have a lot of staying power and international pull, compared to other Japanese media producers
- Pixiv and a lot of artists stopped getting along and the Japanese artist scene is a bit more fragmented, split into Pixiv, twitter and some smaller offshoots. This one is a real pain in the ass
- In similar vein Patreon & Kickstarter and Japanese versions of that aren't untested sources of potential money anymore, but we've seen first projects based on that fail or succeed

Overall I think otaku culture is in an upswing and growing period when it comes to creativity. I also fear I might be mistaking it's death throes though, looking at the shrinking population of producers for every otaku media. I don't see how this can continue for five, ten or even fifteen years.

>>19190540
>People use the word "waifu" to describe literally any anime girl. Hell, not even just anime girls anymore but western cartoon girls and just about anything. I fucking hate this. For example, "haha does the game have waifus bro" is the kind of shit you hear. I absolutely hate waifu faggotry but I at least have a tiny bit more respect for the old school guys who are dedicated to their "waifu"

I think the issue is some just want to have Waifu of the month or the year and are not consistent. There are very very few who have a waifu that lasts for beyond 2-3 years. I think some do it for irony reasons and to think they are cool. Flavor of the month stuff. I can understand why you would be mad. But for the most part i think people just meme things like that.

>He literately is unable to sit down and focus on watching an anime or playing a game other than CoD.

If there is something i can admit a lot of Americans have this problem and its mostly exclusive to them. They seem lazy because they look at the amount rather than saying "hey i will watch 2-3 episodes of anime per day and get through it". Its sad though things are far too casual that people have to rely on Wiki shit and their favorite youtuber.

>>19194005
>I suppose, but it's easy to fool yourself into thinking that this process means that "things will go back to the way they were." They almost certainly won't, even if the genre depopulates it won't go back to being a way for Something Awful forum users to showcase old and rare games. People will adapt the genre to the current technological and economic environment. Who knows what that will turn out to be.

You are correct. I am not saying i expect old culture to come back and magically be the early 00's not even 2011-2014 with the years of Oriemo and Watamote as a peak, but i am hoping for new blood to try and create something interesting and new, ironic and funny, original. Try to preserve some older aspects at the least and continue to make it interesting.

The hardest part about this was having the Casualfags shit up all the boards the last 2-3 years and finally have it peak because they became bored.

>What I've written above for genres also stands true, I think, for communities. Each generation of users leaves its mark on the culture: it discards old traditions, or modifies them. It creates new ones. Knowledge is either institutionalized and archived or ignored and left to fade away. Once in control of the community, it can interact and align itself with outside factions in the culture wars or isolate itself and drive off foreign intrusions. Most of these changes are irreversible.

Absolutely correct, its up to the next generation what they want to do and i can not be mad at what they choose. But i hope they can look and continue to evolve ahead of us. Of course bad ideas die and good ideas live. But i am worried about the next generation being more of a copy and paste, than those who try something new original to further something interesting.

>>19194273
>So instead we get brain damaged observations like "this generic waifushit pedobait is pandering to autistic weebs in order to sell bodypillows," when describing K-On for example.

Something i notice is two fold about these personality types

1. They want to seem edgy cool and outside the norm so they hate on idol anime. Same is also true for SJW types that want to score brownie points worth their group and base everything on acceptance when nobody cares.

2. Or they just literally hate it because it makes a ton of money and its the usual stuff that caters to most audiences. I notice a lot get mad about "Moe-Blob" "Idol" anime/Manga get the most sales and attention. When some want mature titles aka Senien stuff to be adapted. It can be boring to them.

Those are the only two i notice from time to time that say that.

>>19194671
>Go back in time to 2008 and it would be almost impossible to tell an anime fan's political beliefs from his/her favourite franchise. However nowadays someone with a GuP avi probably posts on /pol/ and someone with a LWA avi probably posts on tumblr or weird twitter. Hell, you even have centrists adopting anime like CroHigh as their mascots. This is what happens when "what you consume" becomes the sole defining factor of your identity!

I believe its always been there. There have always been people that shipped characters or those with nazism/communism beliefs. There is lolcows that exist out there like this. Mostly they are laughed at. There is one user who was so crazy they called themselves the "AnimeRight" and kept advertising their website in hopes for attention and views. Most Pol users laughed at this person and some casual people who are right wingers and anime fans laughed, some cringed because it just really is silly to where no one takes them seriously because of it.

I think though like all things its a temporary trend and things will fizzle. Ask yourself if this is going to continue beyond 4 years. And you can say it will not. It will fizzle out and become boring. People are getting tired of politics as well.

>>19219901
>Pol
Stopped reading there.

>>19219947
>Non argument

Started laughing right here.

>>19219901

>>19215598
>Unfortunately, 5ch and 5ch based internet culture is absolutely cancerous loser-mentality. (The system is RIGGED, fucking WOMEN, fucking COMPANY, etc...) It's even worse than /pol/ or /r9k/. I'm not even a damn SJW, but the loser culture is a bit too much.
A lot of Japanese society being generally shit just sounds like something that's true in Japan. At the same time there's no shortage of people people on 5ch and yaraon who seem to excel primarily at trolling everyone and everything they can in a brutal shit festival designed to tear down everything possible including the aforementioned losers.

>At a certain point you can't help but realize /jp/ as a community isn't especially knowledgeable about the topics aside from a small pool of certain individuals in certain threads.
And at the same time they try their best to make it look like they're experts on everything. For me these days I just shit around on Twitter and upvote things now because it gives me the illusion that I'm participating in a Japanese community. It works out just fine because in the beginning I have nothing to say that Japanese people would possibly care about.

every time i hear people complain about status-signaling seinen anime pretend-elitsts or people who get all their anime opinions exclusively from their favorite youtuber i consider myself lucky that i don't hang out wherever the fuck you guys manage to encounter these people

>>19198997
"moeshit" is just a pejorative for "moe anime" that is also shit, it's really not that hard to figure out. there was a point in time when i remember it was popular for people to argue that moe anime is not a thing that exists because moe is a feeling, but there's a 萌えアニメ article in wikipedia doing just fine and it honestly sounds like what most people who use the term "moeshit" mean by moeshit.

>萌えアニメ（もえアニメ）とは、アニメのジャンルの一つであり[1]、ストーリーよりもキャラクターを重視し、個性の異なる複数のキャラクターたちの魅力で作品を牽引し[2]、視聴者の萌えを刺激するようなアニメを指す。
>Moe anime is a genre of anime, focusing on character rather than story, describing works driven by the charm of multiple characters with different personalities, aiming to stimulate the feeling of "moe" among viewers.

people just hate the term because it's used 99% by retards. terms like waifubait, pedobait, etc. aren't even useless descriptors, it's very easy to get an idea of what someone means when he calls something pedobait. it's more the inherent idiocy of people who consider throwing a pejorative term onto a category of things they don't like an argument. it's probably worthless to argue with people who use these terms for a variety of reasons but it's not like they're completely meaningless terms entirely devoid of semantic content, they more or less resemble the following:

waifubait: a work relying primarily on female character appeal to the detriment of of depth of character, story, development, etc
pedobait: a work featuring sexual attraction to young girls as an implicit or explicit selling point
pandering: a work made primarily to give a particular audience what they want as opposed to expressing the vision of a creator

>>19215598
>The system is RIGGED, fucking WOMEN, fucking COMPANY, etc...

Lol, details?

>>19220475
This sounds like /r9k/ in a nutshell to me.

>>19220242
How is it projecting? There is stupid people that exist in every fandom or try to change it into something political when its not.

>>19219947
You read enough to respond. You wasted your own time.

>>19220570
r9k is like 20% teenage girls there for orbiters, 25% traps and other freaks, 20% normals and then the rest are the original inhabitants trying to get a thread in to help them cope for the day without it being hijacked

>>19226617
Why do the rest post on /r9k/ and not /adv/ or something anyway?

>>19219901
>Pol

Shameful, get the fuck out

>>19219901
Animeright migrated to twitter, where it has since spread like a cancer.

There's also communist anime twitter, which is mostly trannies with little witch academia avatars

Hopefully the two tumors will kill each other

>>19220462
>i consider myself lucky that i don't hang out wherever the fuck you guys manage to encounter these people
This. They're always whining about stuff on some dumb social media site.

>>19186010
>as soon as normals enter a subculture it's impossible to get them out
In that sense, are normals the cancer of a subculture?

>>19168598
I was born early 1996.
I had watched anime and played video games since at least 5 years old, as I had cable television and a more cerebral family,
so more geek stuff around.

When I was really young, I'd catch 4Kids or Warner Brothers, if I remember correctly.
I think Pokemon aired on weekday mornings. I also watched the original Yu-gi-oh. (I can't remember how, but Dragon Ball Z, as well.)
I played both of those too: Got the original starter decks from Toys-R-Us and caught Groudon in 3rd or 4th grade.
I played Yugioh until late 5DS era and Pokemon until recently in Gen VII, as I hated the changes they made.
I mostly played against family, since I didn't know where to go to find opponents, until High School when I got a friend group and found Pokemon Crater then Pokemon Showdown!.

From the age of ten I started watching late night television, Toonami and Adult Swim. Toonami was cancelled at some point.
I used to watch Lupin, Case Closed, FLCL and Inuyasha; then Bo-bo-bo, Naruto, Shin-Chan, and,
was introduced to Death Note and Code Geass when those aired (still favorites of mine today).
As I said, my family was a bit geeky, so I got my hands on DVD copies of Full Metal Panic! they bought and fell in love with the series.
Growing up, I played the mainline Pokemon games and spin-offs, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Dead or Alive, and later Phantasy Star Online
and Sonic Riders, among many others.
I drew really crappy anime-ish stuff in elementary school: lots of dragons, random anime-like characters, and a Sonic OC (Coldsteel tier).

I didn't really have internet growing up until about 2008 at 12 years old. I watched a lot of stuff on YouTube, back when
people made poops, parodies, AMVs, and Abridged Series. Loved those. S/O to Hikaripop and DNTAS.
With the Internet, I was able to watch anime and read manga that wasn't shown on television. I read Case Closed,
and watched Lucky Star, Azumanga Daioh, Fruits Basket, and later, Ouran High School Host Club.
I did not know about 4chan at the time but I enjoyed a lot of memes which in hindsight I understand were 4chan leakage, like
Motivational Posters, random gifs, etc.
They ended up on my main discussion site at the time, YouThink, so I saved a lot of stuff, but deleted them all before college,
because I thought I moved on (now I regret it because I can't even find the same caramelldansen oc I had anymore).
I also really loved taking quizzes and personality tests.
I ended up cutting my own AMVs and uploading them to YouTube, and making my own tests for Quiztron/YouThink.
Among other things, I did FLCL AMVs, Full Metal Panic trivia, even a response video to a kid who died trying to be a
sand ninja by having his head buried, because the media was blaming Naruto. I closed my YouTube account long ago
because of their bullshit.

I learned "Dear You" and "Organization XIII".
My Middle and High School had one of the few lively anime clubs in the city, so I would go there every week for a while
(first saw Nichijou, Gurren Lagann, and Tower of Druaaga, and heard the term "weaboo" there).
As a group, everyone generally became friends with everyone else through it, so we played games,
hung out at lunch and at each others' houses, and attended the local anime convention every year together.
Back in the days of Higurashi and Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix, I was taking piano classes in mid- and high school,
and looked up a lot of sheet music and MIDIs I never ended up getting around to learning.
Other people played anime tunes in class as well.
Until the anime club, and after I was no longer a part of it, I didn't have friends to share my otaku interests with.
I had actual consoles but played Visual Boy Advance ROMS downloaded from CoolROM: lots of Pokemon hacks, and an Azumanga Daioh card game, among others.

At the tailend of my time with Japanese media, I would go to my local library which had the hookup for manga volumes and DVDs,
even video games, and of course books.
I read Paul Varley's "Japanese Culture" first, and in my mid teens read "The Book of Tea" and a few haiku compilations: Basho, and Issa.
I didn't get into Buddhism, Shintoism, or traditional stories, though. I tried reading "The Tale of Genji" but got bored.
I read lesser known stuff like "AX Volume 1: A Collection of Alternative Manga", as well as full fledged series like Rosario+Vampire and Bakuman. I rewatched DeNo and CoGe. I downloaded Paranoia Agent from YouTube, rewatched it, and finally understood it.
Played Dokapon Kingdom with a good friend of mine.
I got to the age where I had other stuff going on, and video games, so I axed anime watching and never got into newer stuff.

Next post is about generational gap.

>>19239091
Forgot to mention I listed to a lot of anime music, and some J-Rock here and there.
I'd get stuff from Limewire at first, then from dedicated websites, and then from YouTube.

I don't know too much about what kids do these days.
A lot of people watch a ton of moe anime as far as I can see.
Parodies and such died out as far as I can tell.
... Yeah, I don't know that many younger people, so not much I can say.
I also don't know what older otaku did so can't comment on them either.

>>19169081
>Mainstream "otaku culture" in the West (die-hard antisocial Japanese-learning social basket cases like /jp/ excluded) is no longer its own weird thing and has blended into merely one facet of a larger "nerd culture."
It seems like it but I haven't seen proof of this myself. "Ironic weeb" shit shouldn't count, should it?

>Is this a bad thing or a good thing?
Much as 4chan's popular boards like /v/ and /pol/ serve as a gateway to the rest of the
communities, even though these boards are ostensibly distinct though a part of the same website,
I imagine Japanese culture being assimilated into nerd culture also allows easier flow.
The problem is that the flow happens often like intrusion, and the lack of borders
makes policing them and maintaining the integrity of the community difficult.
As Western nerd culture becomes more and more casualized and mainstream, those sensibilities
endanger the Japanese culture scene with spillover. Actual enthusiasts are in danger of being pushed
out.

>>19194155
great post

>>19239091
>>19168598

We have the same tired discussion every time, but the inescapable conclusion is that you either get used to it and embrace the casual culture or move on in one way or another.

ゆっくりしていってね！！

>>19169356
>What does it even mean to be part of Otaku-culture?
In the Western context, a fan of Japanese culture. Anime and manga are the bedrock, but
it encompasses a wide variety of other things, like /jp/ does.
>Anyway, I think the mid-2000s Otaku culture appeals to me more than what we have nowadays.
I think a lot of people feel that way, myself included.
>In a sense it was still a bit rough and had character, compared to today,
>where everything seems a bit too polished (on a surface level).
Do you have any examples?
>Maybe I'm just biased.
Nope, things really have gone downhill.

>>19179468
>>19179526
>>19194671
interesting theory

>>19185096
oh my, that's quite funny; favorite clip was the autograph signing
I never heard of this anime before

>>19181286
It's not just the fanbase, but the industry itself that has gotten worse.
The content producers are about as much to blame.

>>19181496
>To protect Otaku Culture we have to be as gross and embarrassing as possible.
Again, the fanbase is only part of the problem. The industry seems to have shifted
in favor of putting out uninspired, mediocre anime, regardless of who they think
the mass of their audience is now. That won't change even if the casuals/normals
are expelled.

>>19185464
>I couldn't put it into words but I thought about this the other day.
>There's a bunch of old anime that are consider classics that old /a/ loved (and a lot of older anime fans)
>that I think wouldn't be liked if they came out today.
>For exemple Utena, Marimite or Ouran High School.
Those are just reverse traps so I don't see why it wouldn't go over with the nü school.
>They'd have their audience still, but I think the division of anime fans like you said means they wouldn't be discussed in as many places.
What's wrong with Ouran HSHC?
>>19186068
>Anime use to be a niche and now it's not.
>But like all things it will go back to being a niche again due the casual audiences never staying for long.
>Things will get back to normal.
I see no way of this happening unless the industry stops catering to them.
And when is that going to stop? Equally unforeseeable.
>>19186186
this
>>19186194
>But I can't deny that it feels really weird for /jp/ to be an empty shell of its former self.
Your post sounds like you are lamenting the death of generals. If anything, this place needs even fewer generals.
>But it feels really different and weird to be looked down upon by others who still engage in the same hobby.
Blame the waifufags. There's too many nonsense threads dedicated to nothing but gushing over girls and women.
Cuteposting is a charming aspect of 4chan culture, but it repeatedly gets taken too far.
They are responsible as well for /vp/'s being a butt of jokes on 4chan.

>>19186227
>Back in 09 there really was not much people, memes were not really made to be a thing
>and when they were especially on here.
I don't know what you're trying to say here. Early YouTube produced or exploited plenty of memes.
Caramelldansen is an easy example; and that was before 2009.
>I have a feeling eventually normalfags are going to leave and they mostly have
>(i looked at stats that shows that the user visits have been lowering down
>for at least the last 4 months straight)
school months
>>19186255
>then you had /g/ which was in overdrive.
yup
>But like i mentioned before the normalfags are moving on and its about time.
I feel like /g/ has been getting worse since May, after a yearlong recovery.
Lots of dumb newfag posts. Summer is a real thing.
>>19186337
Not a good edit.
>>19190540
>People use the word "waifu" to describe literally any anime girl.
>Hell, not even just anime girls anymore but western cartoon girls and just about anything.
Indeed, people on this site regularly refer even to 3D as waifu or a -fu variation.
>For example, "haha does the game have waifus bro" is the kind of shit you hear.
I always look down on people who pluralize Japanese English-ly, and do not know how
to pronounce even its 5 vowels.
>I absolutely hate waifu faggotry but I at least have a tiny bit more respect for the old school guys
>who are dedicated to their "waifu".
>I still hate it in that sense too but every fucking newfag just spams the fuck out the word.
Agree.
>Anything with cute anime girls is immediately "waifushit" or "moeshit" for example.
Is it not? My impression is that new school moe anime is a cancer killing the industry,
and deserves derision. This post >>19194155 demonstrates the problem with it;
it also just lacks creativity and encourages rehashes.
>I also hate you faggots that use "weeb" to describe anything Japanese.
Same.
>Nobody who's actually into this stuff labels themselves as a weeb or otaku.
I would hope not.
>You don't like this shit to try and fit an image.
*shouldn't

>>19192788
your post is right but the reality is that you are nitpicking
In a perfect world, the newfags would not be normies,
so that the issue you point out wouldn't apply here.
>>19194373
>I think Jojo was the official turning point, though if you want to narrow it down to a specific catalyst,.
Is this a Jojo reference?
>>19196512
accurate
>>19198253
>"Waifushit" doesn't make sense. No anime or game comes with wives built-in.
Come on now, you know what it means. It means a show that tries to pander
by intentionally providing girls the audience can obsess over from the get-go, built-in.
>>19198495
good post except
>perfect waifus
>waifus
>s
>>19198658
SF?

>>19227954
it's a random board slower than /b/

>>19239611
Science fiction

>>19239514
>waifus
I hope you also complain about every single loan word in Japanese not being pronounced and written as in the original language.

>>19244716
the plural of a Japanese word is the word itself.
not the same thing.

>>19168598
>watching anime divided into 6 or 7 parts on youtube in 240p.

>Muh Feels

>>19239514
>>19244716
Is "waifu" even Japanese? Like has anyone ever said that in anything over yome or something??

the psp and then mobage marked a huge shift. I am surprised no one said anything about the psp.

>>19245315
What's so great about the psp?

>>19245331
Portable.

"Otaku culture" didn't really exist in the West except for in very niche spaces (e.g., old VHS-trading circles, old fansubbing) until recently in which it mostly just resembles the "niwaka ota" trend years ago in Japan. I missed the VHS stuff but was still exposed to it thanks to older relatives who would copy me series.

My (online) friends and I grew up when torrenting was new so I think we share experiences of digging for fansubbed torrents and through P2P services. Despite all of the anime I've seen, I have this soft spot for things from that era even if I'm watching them over a decade after the fact. Those trashy moe shoes from the early-mid 2000s and such that were either based on eroge or character archetypes from them. Eroge songs from this period are also top-notch.

I don't really have any problem with moe since if you've been around you realize it's been intimately tied to otaku culture very early on. The problem now is I think it's been recycled to the point of being boring and vapid. It's like the "spirit" is gone, driven by a profit-motive above all rather than a mutual celebration of niche interest. That said, I still think there are enjoyable moecentric series and there's enough variation in things produced that there's a little for everyone.

I used to be made fun of for liking anime so I kept it secret. It's disconcerting to see it become popular now to be "otacool," but as things become more normalized a natural hierarchy forms. People who know don't give a shit about fotm moe or the obnoxious memelord. As much as people here hate anime cons and such, those spaces are the only physical places where I've ever met people who have intimate knowledge of anime as artistic form, who can pinpoint key animators from looking at a cut, who don't care if you are a lolicon (sometimes), like stifling excess and the obsessive-compulsive drive to hoard ephemera. At the same time, I've stopped giving a shit even if my tastes are severe and invite criticism. I'm sure everyone who sees my room is hit with overwhelming cognitive dissonance when they realize that the "goofy anime guy" is a cartoon pedophile.

They can fuck off if they have a problem and if they like bullshit I will put them down relentlessly. It's ultimately your job to regulate the spaces you want for yourself. A recent trip to Japan made it clear that there's no shame in being "unacceptable." The intensity of love and solidarity around so-called "trash" is inspiring. People I saw at a MOSAIC live carry that spirit (not unsurprising that most of them are older). It's here too, but you need to seek it out. And like all trends, when "otacool" dies down, these people and you will still be around. While I refuse to identify as "otaku" I will say that it is an orientation and mentality. Less what you like and consume and more how you think about it, approach it, and shape your life with it. It's how it applies to so many different interests.

>>19245156
It was a meme based on a line from the male teacher from Azumanga Daioh. AFAIK no Japanese really use the term except for those who interact with Western fandom. I personally hate the term. All of the Japanese people I've talked to use "yome"; "waifu" has always been used more jokingly, almost in a "weird silly foreigner but I guess it's cool that we kinda like the same stuff" way.

>>19190540
"Waifu" is THE meme term for the "not a fan of otaku shit but likes to pretend they're in the know" types. I have heard it verbalized irl by classmates and such who mean well when they're trying to engage with my autistic rambling, but it makes my bones hurt and all I can do is try to ignore them until they repeat it enough (because it's supposed to be hilariously funny) that I look at them and give them a complicated acknowledgement that I have, in fact, heard them say it.

>>19245894
I'm not insinuating that you are an actual pedophile, if you aren't, but if you are, than what the hell is it with people seeing that as this horrible, evil thing? I don't fucking get it, why do people see pedophiles (or lolicons, since they're considered to be one/the same by mainstream culture) as these horrible demonic people, when the majority of them haven't done anything? I can understand why they'd feel that way about someone who actually goes out and rapes a kid, but as far as non-offending pedophiles, what the hell is it with people thinking of them as degenerate subhumans or whatever the fuck the word of the week is? It doesn't make any sense, except in the context of "thought crimes are literally and unironically THE litfam way to go". Fuck those people, sorry for the rant.

Really you guys are the only ones who I talk about this. I try to hide it from everybody else because of things like
>>19246081 I remember how I talked to this one guy on the train thinking I could get the conversation somewhere, he was into some anime and he knew Fate the VN so that was ok. we talked a little and he told me everyone in his class was into anime manga and cons. I told him I that I couldn't talk to classmates about this and he said
>fucking normies REEEE
After that I gave him a forced laugh and got off on the next stop. Now everytime I see him I try to avoid him, sometimes without success. The faggot doesn't even know Card Captor Sakura. Sorry for the blog but I just wanted to meet a /jp/sie in real life and talk about stuff. But now I've learned by lesson.

>>19246137
Nah, I feel you. I was being somewhat hyperbolic in saying "cartoon pedophile" but that's because normalfriend mentalities are hyperbolic in nature. I consider myself a lolicon, but not a pedophile since I have very blunted attraction to real people.

I've always seen the "pedo hysteria" to be one part socialized groupthink and another a deep-seated anxiety and fear of one's own sexual impulses, especially in modern cultures where "youth" is simultaneously idealized and sexualized. It is projection in the most traditional psychoanalytic sense. You don't typically react so strongly to something you disagree with unless it hits a raw nerve you wished wasn't there.

In day-to-day life I will casually advocate for pedophiles when people act up over it. At the most basic level it's a categorizational distinction between "child abuser" and "pedophile." Just calmly point out that it's a fallacy to conflate the two and that research has a sampling bias because they only draw from convicted populations. More accurate research shows that the overwhelming majority of pedophiles do NOT engage in abuse behavior, but DO suffer all of the trademark psychological damage associated with other marginalized groups. That last point is particularly effective with "liberally-minded" people.

>>19246215
I know the feeling, which is why I avoid engagement around my hobbies with people. If it gets any deeper than the most surface level people will typically get lost and feel alienated. But I've stopped "hiding"; I wear anime shirts quite often and routinely recommend deeper cuts for those interested, for example.

I've shifted from feeling contempt to trying to reorient people to the good shit. I have friends who are memers but I forgive them because they're at least open to deeper digging and will listen to my hour-long rambles about whatever with keen interest. Soft mockery and redirection is pretty effective most of the time. It's like grooming TRUota. As shallow as it is, the memeing is now kind of a sampling process to gauge involvement in a shared hobby and it's typically a "first line" defense in case the person isn't really into it. If you can inject realness, I can't say it's totally shit even if it basically is.

>>19246308
I agree. While I do try to avoid the more annoying members of the anime loving community, I don't do anything to hide my own involvement in it. I put pencil boards on my backpack, have a ton of pettanko keychains. More often than not, people are interested and start asking a bunch of questions. Like, I know they're not on our level, but the information is out there if they care enough to seek it out. I always toss people a few recommendations and it has never led to a bad experience.

>>19194155
>Would Anzu be profitable if her parents fell ill and required expensive home care, motivating her to stop being a NEET and work harder?
The problem with this thinking is that you're trying to superimpose narrative complexity onto something that simply was not designed for it. 2D idols are there for yuri shipping and occasionally great music. It's not that it's "bad" but that it's a different mode of engagement which can be just as "otaku" if not moreso than being into narrative-centric forms.

The obsession and idealization around the "bishoujo" character extends far beyond Azumanga Daioh. Goes back as far as people getting hot for Tezuka's females and shoujo manga. Urusei Yatsura had keen focus on bishoujo chars. Lolicon as a genre came out in the 80s. "Moe" existed long before otaku had a term for it. Early moe anime was much more shallow than idol series that at least try to craft a narrative around their recycling, but they were still enjoyable in their goofiness and excess.

Eroge has a pretty extensive history and evolution as well. I've always found peak-moe to be the capacity to feel real human emotion towards even the most throwaway character. Somehow, that is very "otaku." Even oldschool SF ota were getting wet on mecha designs and animation and pretty much everything BUT the story for the most part. People will deride otaku for this tendency, but I think this groundwork is precisely what makes "otaku culture" interesting. If people wanted a good story, they could just read a book.

>>19245894
>I'm sure everyone who sees my room is hit with overwhelming cognitive dissonance
Are you sure that's the right phrase to use?
Either way, unless you have a room like Madarame's with borderline pornographic idol figs I don't think people are going to care that much.

>>19246422
I just feel like if you don't intervene, especially early, they will continue down the path into FAKKU-tier ironic weeb territory with no hope of recovery. That they're interested enough to engage is the opportunity to introduce them to an incredibly rich area of experience. For years I had nothing but contempt for anything below my level of involvement, but that's partly because I was so thoroughly ridiculed at one point for liking things and seeing it become "cool" pissed me off. Maybe it's age too, but I realized that relentless hate just goes against the spirit of otaku culture. I had younger cousins who got into anime with Lucky Star and some memeage from youtube and now I can shoot the shit with one about how great Milk Morinaga's manga is with just a little guidance.

>>19246464
Yes, only you can prevent shit taste. I think it will eventually become a niche again, or rather, anime and general otaku stuff still is a niche interest outside of the surface level stuff.

>>19246458
I can't remember what Madarame's room looked like. Mine is filled with both borderline and outright pornographic figures and wall art with emphasis on lolicon material. I've framed an autographed drawing from my Life is Peachy? eromanga. I know some people will see "anime" and automatically think "pedo" but my anime-fan ecchi-liking friends will still express hesitation about it, but maybe they reconcile it by thinking "oh he likes big breasted girls too, it's fine" (twist: I don't. It's general aesthetic appreciation for artists I like regardless).

>>19246491
Oh dear.

>>19245894
I kind of want to see your room

>>19246229
>>19246137
I think "pedo" and "lolicon" and "likes <18" are conflated a lot and perhaps you do it too. Because you like Dekomori or something doesn't make you a pedo, and you should probably avoid feeling that way. You have to remember if you say something like
>advocate for pedophiles
You mean advocate for people who unironically think babyfuck is awwrite.
There's also a difference between "would also fuck someone prepubescent" and "would only fuck someone prepubescent". Pedos are pretty fucked up and you really don't want to associate with them. It's like trannies trying to associate with gays. Honest lolicons are even worse. Not "I like anime lolis" people, but the people that go steal girls underwear and take creep shots of kids at athletics festivals and stuff.


>I don't fucking get it, why do people see pedophiles (or lolicons, since they're considered to be one/the same by mainstream culture) as these horrible demonic people, when the majority of them haven't done anything?
The same reason they don't like gays or that you probably don't like "non-binary gendered omnisexuals" or furries or whatever. There's a difference between someone who doesn't identify as male or female and someone who is trying to force you to treat them as a female with a dick despite being clearly male, but are you going to make that distinction?
There's no denying there's a "pedo hysteria", it didn't used to be that way before like the late 90s maybe, but it's just another incarnation of "your children are constantly in horrible danger" that the news likes to insert into people's minds. However this doesn't mean that actual pedos aren't crazy. It's just made the definition of pedo become dangerously close to "all males who don't exclusively like milfs." This is also another problem where people focus too much on young females(remember pedo isn't gendered, but anime fans seem prone to call loli pedo and shota gay.)
So you have to remember, there's a good chance when you
>advocate for pedophiles
You're probably advocating for people who want to make some "rhythmic slapping sounds" of their own, if you know what I mean.

Also pedos are normalfags. They don't want your idea of pure anime loli relationships or whatever, they just want to fuck little kids and move on when they get too old.

>>19247448
I've posted my room years ago on here and it hasn't changed much. I have a lot of things I still need to put up but I've been too lazy.

As far as I know "lolicon" DOES refer to "general underaged attraction" in common use, though as a genre it distinguishes itself with younger characters (pre-/pubescent). I'm using "lolicon" to refer to this genre as a whole and people who are into it. I've been a "lolicon" since I was in late middle school and early high school (I just didn't really know it at the time and thought it was "normal" to like eromanga with younger characters).

I'm aware of the differences between "pedophilia" and other similar paraphilias, but they don't really mean much when talking about mainstream usage. Also you are conflating "pedophile" with "sex with children." An attraction does not mean you will or even want to have sex with kids per se. I say this because I will occasionally feel romantic attraction for someone but have no sexual impulse. Diddling kids doesn't actually mean you're a pedophile; most child rapists are just generally antisocial and don't actually prefer kids but seem to do it out of convenience. Like I said earlier, most pedophiles take a hardline stance against that shit. From better studies, we know they're reasonable people with a weird, likely innate sexual impulse and because sampling is typically biased, who knows just how many "functioning pedophiles" are actually around? All I can really say for certain is the majority of research that uses convict samples are doing it wrong and are misrepresenting facts by way of flawed methodology.

Probably somewhat self-serving, but I personally think as long as you don't 3D or touch actual kids it's fine. And I have no problem with people with weird identity issues as long as they aren't outright making shit up to score oppression points. Pedophilia, unfortunately, is real and they're under and misrepresented constantly to the point of annoyance because it's rooted in really lazy thinking. It's being unable to simply refine mental schema that people group "underaged attraction" and "horrible child rapist" together, AND think that a person who likes loli is necessarily some sick rapist murderer. One part social brainwashing and the other a complete lack of any critical thought; it's depressing when grown, educated adults literally reason like a child does.

>>19247448
>Also pedos are normalfags. They don't want your idea of pure anime loli relationships or whatever, they just want to fuck little kids and move on when they get too old.
Also I have to say that thinking pedos are "normalfags" is REALLLY stretching the definition of "normalfag." I don't think I've ever knowingly interacted with a pedophile and for good reason because if it comes out your life is ruined. I'm struggling as it is to calmly and rationally distinguish "pedophilia" from "child rapist" without people thinking I'm secretly a pedophile rapist in disguise out of hysteria. I'm probably the last person to fuck anything, let alone kids.

There's this vehement, irrational disgust for pedophilia that's baffling to me, especially when we consider how, historically, sexual norms often included things we would now consider "pedophilia" but no one seems to know that or cannot reconcile that with their worldview lest it fall apart. It's like, you can disagree with something without this hyperbolic hate towards it, especially when you don't really know anything about it except for these weird "boogieman" myths. Normalfags are fucking weird, man.

>>19172674
I bought Lucky Star gashapons when I was in Japan. I got Swimsuit Konata! Konata buys higher quality more expensive stuff, not cheap crap.

>>19169081
I can relate to that pic, but that last part made me chuckle heartily. Then again liking SoL series is certainly somewhat of an acquired taste and I've found that there's this slight shift towards watching those the older some people get. Iyashikei just right before hitting the hay is a pretty nice combination.

>>19168598
Lowered entry barrier, way too much content, very fast releases, way too many people, not enough holding power nor enough passion or heart for stuff, heavy focus on the consumerism facet of things, older people, the evolution of the internet and trends and subsequently the whole rise to "meme culture" and most importantly lack of creativity on the younger ones.
There's a lot more that I could say but it would be repeating everything already said, and I agree it would most likely end up being as >>19239247 says so yeah it has changed a whole lot but there's only so much one can do given the scale of changes.

>>19181496
This method sure as hell didn't work with r9k's gross pepe edits, if anything, it only attracted even more obnoxious breeds of normalfags that get their kicks from convoluted irony and juvenile toilet humor.

>>19247785
>>19247818
>thinking pedos are "normalfags" is REALLLY stretching the definition of "normalfag.
>There's this vehement, irrational disgust for pedophilia that's baffling to me, especially when we consider how, historically, sexual norms often included things we would now consider "pedophilia" but no one seems to know that or cannot reconcile that with their worldview lest it fall apart.
Aren't you saying it's weird it's not viewed as normal when it used to be sort of normal, but somehow they aren't normalfags? But I mean they're normalfags in that they go out and act well adjusted, are socially adapted and confident enough that that they can actually have sex without necessarily raping someone. (you yourself, for wanting to defend them, seperate them into rapists and sexless without the idea that they could convince someone to have a "consensual" relationship) Normalfags have kinks like foot fetish, bdsm, and serial killing all the time. It's about not being an autistic basement dweller who can only get hard to girls with dinner plate sized eyes and only socializes online.

>Also you are conflating "pedophile" with "sex with children." An attraction does not mean you will or even want to have sex with kids per se.
That's retarded. A gay person can be "in the closet" and not fuck members of their same sex, but pretending they don't want to is dumb. If you just think something is cute, you're not a whateverphile at all. Otherwise, you're just in denial.

>I say this because I will occasionally feel romantic attraction for someone but have no sexual impulse.
You could also be confusing a parenting sense with a romantic sense.

>Diddling kids doesn't actually mean you're a pedophile
Yeah sure, I said that back at `There's also a difference between "would also fuck...' etc.

>"functioning pedophiles"
Doesn't "functioning" just mean "normalfag"?

>who knows just how many are actually around?
Probably not many if it's exclusively prepubescent. It doesn't just go against society at that point, but against nature too.

>I'm struggling as it is to calmly and rationally distinguish "pedophilia" from "child rapist" without people thinking I'm secretly a pedophile rapist in disguise out of hysteria.
You seem to fail at it, since you seem to accept the idea that any sex is rape. Furthermore, to use a bad analogy:
I like the game series Arcana Heart. Not many others in the west do, and people tend/ed to say it's weird or creepy, being about a bunch of young girls in anime outfits and seeming sexualized. The fans of it tend/ed to defend it by saying stuff like "It's not sexualized, the game doesn't even show any panty shots or anything!" Now, everything from Guilty Gear to Street Fighter to Soul Caliber to Dead or Alive shows panty shots and people enjoy that. Pointing out that the series doesn't have panty shots doesn't make it seem acceptable, but instead makes it seem weird. Is the whole appeal of the girls just the cosplay then if you don't get to see their panties? Why is it better that it pretends to not be sexualized? "I like games entirely about girls but I like the games to be pure and not show up the girls skirts". It's twisted thinking don't you think?
You also remind me of how furries would insist it was only a minority of the fandom that wanted to have sex with animal people/animals. It's like if you think you're an animal and your partner is an animal then are you saying you don't want to fuck them now? You seem dishonest saying you're attracted to someone but don't want to fuck them. "I really, really like kids, but I would totally never fuck your daughter."
This is what I mean by normalfag too. The guys would want to fuck the daughter but they aren't going to insist they would never fuck her. They'd probably try to get in good with the mother so she lets them fuck her or something.

Basically, you do seem like you're putting up a disguise. You don't see adults going "There's a difference between a teleiophile and an adult rapist. Because I like grown people doesn't mean I'm going to rape them"(except towards feminists) or see them going "I like the idea of having sex with grown people but I'm not going to" unless they're some meme sexuality or being abstinent for some reason. So unless you're a pedophile monk, there's no reason to go on about how you want to fuck kids but wouldn't if given the chance. It's normal for people not to fuck everyone they see.

>>19248500
i already said that >>19181621
stop copies me

>>19248571
Don't be a wet blanket, anon.

>>19248546
>you yourself, for wanting to defend them, seperate them into rapists and sexless
Any distinctions with pedophilia sexuality is functionally arbitrary and only used to create the distinction that attraction necessarily implies a desire for sex. Of course the range of sexuality for everyone is nuanced and not neatly categorizational, but I felt it'd be pedantic and pointless to go off on that. Refining schema is the first step to clearer thought, but you need to create those categories before going deeper.

>pretending they don't want to is dumb
Whether they want to doesn't really matter when they simply don't. Only trying to, again, create a distinction between attraction/orientation and sexual impulse. I personally think lolicon is that "sexless" pedophilia in that it's abstracted and virtual rather than being physically sensual. Or maybe it's just a kink. I'm not really sure. My own sexuality is so twisted I can't really speak with confidence on others besides what I've read or consistently heard.

>You could also be confusing a parenting sense with a romantic sense.
Likely not that important of a distinction in this realm because romance often involves caring behaviors, though I won't say it's "parenting." I would describe it as a more general "affection." Just semantics now, frankly.

>Doesn't "functioning" just mean "normalfag"?
This is another semantic issue that skirts the point. A "functioning" addict is able to do normalfag things, but if that fact ever got out, they would be treated worse, guaranteed, and this is not including that they could simply be functioning at a lower level than average. It's why "functioning pedophile" is in quotes.

>You seem to fail at it, since you seem to accept the idea that any sex is rape.
No clue how you drew this conclusion. Arguing against hyperbolic reasoning requires hyperbolic methods. The more you exaggerate faulty logic, the more effect it has to point out that it is illogical. This whole problem exists precisely because people are not thinking in a nuanced way so arguing in such a manner is ineffective. You can clearly reason between arbitrary binaries of fuck/not-fuck, but normalfags get super retarded on the topic of pedophilia and sexuality in general.

>You also remind me of how furries would insist it was only a minority of the fandom that wanted to have sex with animal people/animals.
Just paraphrasing the gist of the research summaries I've read on pedophilia. Most that paint them as diseased, antisocial individuals are faulty because they are sampling antisocial populations. There are two key findings: 1) Non-convict, self-identified pedophiles typically do not engage in pedophilic behavior. 2) People who are convicted of "pedophilia" (not an actual crime, but you get what I mean, I hope) are rarely pedophiles in any useful clinical or research sense. They are more general antisocial sexual predators who just so happened to abuse kids; the general suggestion is that they would do it adults if given the chance or they go after kids because it's easy prey, and it's not also driven strictly by sexual desire but other things like power, wanting to hurt, etc.

I don't know anything about furries other than that they're weird and super kinky. I'll also say that wanting to fuck an anthropomorphic animal is not the same as wanting to fuck an animal. Might as well say wanting to fuck OS-tans means wanting to fuck your laptop.

>You seem dishonest saying you're attracted to someone but don't want to fuck them.
Not sure why you'd think that. I thought I was "asexual" for a long time. Not that I NEVER feel it, but it's always blunted and I generally do not prefer "real" people. Case in point, I have a 2D wife that I've loved for 7+ years and I don't want to "fuck her" nor can I for that matter so it all works out wonderfully. I prefer hugging and cuddling. I've come to realize most of my old attractions fell along those lines of non-sexual physical intimacy of which I am personally scared of probably due to a shitty childhood.

I also don't really like real kids at all. I think they're annoying and gross and people shouldn't have them. I also don't like real people very much either.

>Basically, you do seem like you're putting up a disguise.
Only thing I keep to myself is my lolicon obsession, at least until I trust a person enough to let that one go. At that point, people generally get over it quickly when they realize I'm not very "sexual" as a person and pose no threat.

Distinguishing adult rapists is different because people don't think about them the same way as "pedophiles." "Pedophile" in mainstream use is such a ridiculous, absurd clusterfuck of a term that only incites hysteria. I've only been trying to bring functionality to it while maybe saving actual pedophiles some grief over that shit. It's hard to talk about anything and research further when there's that level of irrationality and hate.

>>19248746
I guess all I can say is that I'm tired of normalfriends constantly making these errors in reasoning. Anytime people get stupid over issues like pedophilia or incest, I feel the need to correct them. Not very successful, I'll admit, but I can at least get them to acknowledge that you can like kids and even wanna fugg but you don't have to actually do that, and you can love and fugg your sister and not have babies. Typical response is an understanding of the logic, but a continued, strong aversion to it, like "that makes sense but I still won't have it." Well you don't have to like shit or even agree with it, just stop making dumb logical errors that result in a culture of hysterics. They probably think I'm a top-secret subversive pedophile anyway. Fuck em.

>>19181496
not sure if bait becouse most otakus do that

Can you really be considered a lolicon if you can only get horny to hags in loli bodies? For instance I've wasted an entire box of tissues shooting ropes to suwako but anything from comic-lo just makes me feel creepy because they're actual kids.

>>19247848
When and where was this? I want to buy figs but I won't have the carrying capacity for anything larger than a chocolate bar in my bag (without the risk of it breaking in transit). Also, could you post a close-up picture of your Konata fig so I can see the quality of the paint job? Thanks in advance

People think lolicon pornography is super weird because in the framework of normal pornography it is quite weird. Even though we all accept that somebody who runs around murdering people in GTA doesn't want to do that in real life ("so, you'd enjoy murdering hookers in real life?" "what the fuck man it's just a game"), people understand the appeal of pornography differently. In general you self-insert as the male who's having sex with the girls, and people understand that ("so, you'd actually enjoy being transported to an island populated entirely by beautiful exotic girls in desperate need of impregnation?" "FUCK YEAH"). People identify sexual fantasy much more closely with true desires than other sorts of pretend.

And when you add in the fact that a lot of LO scenarios are morally abhorrent by most standards (EVEN IF you are one of those brave new enlightened individuals who thinks that informed consensual relationships between adults and children are okay and are A-OK with loli bitch scenarios, there's no shortage of works that still fail to meet this bar by a country mile), it starts to bother people. Snuff and rape pornography also get a bad rap for this reason even after we definitively exclude all the real stuff. Most people - most lolicons included, probably - don't have the iron "I just don't understand 3D" wall between 2D and 3D that some people in this thread have. Consider that the concept of the wall itself is probably alien to most Westerners and of course most of them would be taken aback by it. Even basic concepts like "it's way hotter when she's resisting" that are stock in Japan probably bother most Westerners because they don't seem like ones that would inherently true in one dimension and not in another.

Why you people bother telling anyone in the west about the weird shit you get off to to begin with is beyond me. I bet it has to do with the irrepressible tendency of lolicons to talk about themselves.

>>19251151
>I bet it has to do with the irrepressible tendency of lolicons to talk about themselves.
lmao

>>19251151
I'm not a Freudian, but I do think that violence and sex impulses share basic commonalities in how they are expressed through mediation. Desires of pornography are no different from any other media experience, perhaps even more removed than violence. If you feel like killing someone, there's often a functional end, but sexual fantasy often kind of "floats." It's easy for people to mistake 3D porn desire for 3D desire, but when it's 2D the abstraction is more obvious. You don't actually desire that sex, you desire the FANTASY of that weird, kinky sex; to have it realized in any way destroys both the desire and the fantasy.

Also, I noticed that both readers and creators of lolicon material have a tendency to project onto the child. I think that fantasy itself complicates the faulty 2D = 3D assumption. With most eromanga, we're talking about a purely virtual space, which is probably why the eroticism is exaggerated and heightened beyond 3D porn.

>Why you people bother telling anyone in the west about the weird shit you get off to to begin with is beyond me
That junction between fantasy and sexuality is really intriguing to me. It's also one of the fastest ice-breakers and a decent metric for otaku culture involvement. Everyone looks at porn but they never admit it. Getting them to admit it is a quick way of building rapport, and it's often a huge part of our involvement in otaku stuff--I was jerking it to eromanga before I was watching anime consistently. Having a person I can talk to about how great boys in skirts is is nice. This stuff also seems to support this working theory I have that the deeper people get into 2D ero, the further removed they become from embodied sex. "Sex" becomes this endless, abstract, almost purely symbolic recombination of fetish elements and scenarios, character dynamics and shipping. Likely why outsiders think "cartoon porn" is so "weird" is because that whole subculture is on a whole other dimension of sexual virtualization. Makes me think that "sex" isn't something you "do" but rather something you imagine.

Also, lolicons are chatty because we rarely have any opportunities to discuss it while 3D lovers talk about their boring shit all day.

>>19250574
>Can you really be considered a lolicon if you can only get horny to hags in loli bodies?
Who jacks off to minds? You're jacking off to their bodies, so if it's loli, you're a lolicon.

>>19253198
>Who jacks off to minds?
A lot of people? Explain Roki's hypnosis fetish

>>19251151
Do people really get as exposed to eromanga, let alone loli manga, to the extent you described? I figured it was more a superficial thing like "Hey, parents! Japan has these comics about fucking children and they could be inspiring pedos to fuck YOUR children!" and no one ever bothers to look at them because they're not a pedo and so why would they? There are bad ones, as you say, but I get the feeling that if people were to spend any amount of time reading eromanga they'd become more appalled at how retarded the situations and dialogue were than the subject matter.

>>19253231
I don't know that artist, but mind control is just another form of bondage.

>>19253346
that only exists mentally.

>>19253437
eh. You can force people to do stuff they wouldn't do through blackmail, corruption, drugs, etc. It's not really more mental than watching a girl get mindbroken from too much sex.

You're not going "her mind's a doll! her mind's a doll! A doll! a slave! haa... haa..." are you?

>>19248546
> "I like games entirely about girls but I like the games to be pure and not show up the girls skirts". It's twisted thinking don't you think?
Now I feel weird within the weird, since I like the cute and funny things of the otaku culture, but I don't like most of the lewd or the porn.

>You seem dishonest saying you're attracted to someone but don't want to fuck them.
I am an other anon, but why do you equate liking/being attracted/being fond of something with wanting to rub your genitals with it? Maybe I am deluding my self, but I think that going too far can ruin most things. Some delicacy may be important in life.

>>19253231
That's not jacking off to a mind, that's jacking off to the concept of dominating someone else. I hate anything more than very light bondage for the same reason that I hate mind control, drugs, corruption, blackmail etc, because they all fall under that umbrella.

>>19253522
No, I'm just saying that people can and do get aroused by women in certain mental states as a justification for distinguishing "loli" hags who have eternally youthful bodies but mature minds craving sex from actual disgusting lolis

>>19250574
"Lolicon" encompasses more than body-type. Petite characters could pass for "loli," but that's stretching it. As a genre, lolicon focuses on a clear, established set of signifiers, like randoseru, sukumizu, recorders, band-aids, that "perma-blush" you sometimes see, childish panties, and so on. There's also this "childish" mentality in the characters in traditional lolicon work, but more recently that's played around with. I think the most consistent thing is that the "age" of the character is highlighted, like "I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M FUCKING A [blank]-YEAR OLD!!"

So no, I wouldn't consider a person who likes petite body-types to be "lolicon." It has to have this element of that "underaged-ness" theme since that's kind of the essence of it all whether sexual or not.

>>19254075
I thoroughly disagree. I can get off to the concept of a mind being changed or different to begin with, beyond simple domination. Just reading such articulation is overwhelmingly intoxicating. Even when there's absolutely no aggressor whatsoever, in contexts where no domination even CAN take place.
Hell, I fucking HATE domination. Anything actually aggressive (Rather than simply assertive) or explicitly unconsensual really irks me too much to feel good.

i hate all the normalfags into anime these days.
things like loli, shota, incest, fanservice in shows set in high-school, etc. weren't viewed as utter taboos back when i was into anime (2000-2013). people understood anime was just cartoons

>>19257415
>people understood anime was just cartoons
People are a lot lonelier now, I think, than even back then. So even normalfags will reach out to seize whatever piece of pop culture can be turned into a membership card for an online community or subculture. Corporate oligarchs like Joss Whedon will be there to produce that membership for a reasonable price.

>>19194155
Becoming part of the workforce means much less time for hobbies. Also I believe a lot of adults can be confronted with a sense of loss of purpose if they're not enjoying or particularly invested in their work, especially single men with no plan to build a family. Gacha videogames can give you a quick satisfaction, anywhere, at any moment. And the need to finance your gambling addiction can give you motivation to keep working.

>>19258888
I think that a lot of "otaku" lose interest in their hobbies or see that interest fade. However, a lot of these people are indeed single. They don't have that big of a circle of friends, a girlfriend, and so on. So they continue doing what other otaku do as a way of maintaining existing interpersonal relationships. Gacha helps, since it's easy to do and doesn't require you to invest much time as a traditional TV anime, manga, game or VN would.

I've been like this for a long while now. I really need to rip off the band-aid and seek out new things in life...

I don't know if anime is worse or if I just don't have time to care anymore. I'd rather not be those bitter fags from the 90s era complaining about moe, but I really don't find most of currently airing anime appealing.

I remember being really excited with the quality of stuff around Hyouka and spice and wolf, but personally stuff got pretty bad after KLK. Then two years ago there was a season with like 7 fujoshit shows Thanks, KyoAni. I really did love you before, but you've broken my heart.

>>19259492
>I really need to rip off the band-aid and seek out new things in life...
It's called impregnating a girl and starting a family.

>>19260033
that would objectively make my life more miserable.

>>19259983
Kyoani is still making pretty good stuff. Violet Evergarden was a delight to watch and Koe no Katachi was probably one of the best anime films I've seen in a very long time. There's a level of dedication to their craft that even if I don't like something they make, I still deeply respect the work they put in.

Also, since you mentioned KLK, Little Witch Academia is also wonderful. I found it to be better than KLK in every way and it's just so damn charming.

I still think good anime is coming out, but like always, it's surrounded by shit; this has been true since forever (and honestly, sometimes a bit of shit is exactly what you need). Worst case, you can always dig through old anime.

>>19260655
you have shit taste and type like a tumblr fruitcake

>>19260948
I can assure you my taste is just fine and you type like a worthless fuckhole with nothing to add so it evens out.

>>19261013
you simply like bad anime that's all. unfortunately not everyone is born with proper taste so you'll have to just live with that fact

Also, since you mentioned Little Witch Academia, are you excited for Frozen 2? I can't wait to be able to view Disney's beautiful craft firsthand once again. The amount of heart that they put into their works makes me certain that the wait is worth it to be able to experience another delectable animated film from them.

>>19261074
Damn, you've been distressed over a cartoon and "Frozen 2" is the best shit you can talk. dam boi.

>>19261157
never reply to me again fruityboy
by the way there are only two genders

>>19261157
> damn boi
I wasn't really feeling the turn to lolicon discussion, but goddamn, thanks for sending this thread into a straight nosedive.

>>19261206
>by the way there are only two genders
Okay, now I'm fucking mad. Keep talking shit, pussy. See what happens.

>>19261233
demn bwoy...

>>19258888
>Becoming part of the workforce means much less time for hobbies.
But it also means enabling them with disposable income.

>>19260948
>>19261013
>>19261074
>>19261157
>>19261206
>>19261233
>>19261263
I don't know if this discussion ripped straight from the front page of /a/ is better or worse than the longform lolicon apologia

Also, KLK and LWA are okay anime but miles ahead of whatever isekai shit you eat on a daily basis

>>19261349
Trigger fags are really insufferable.

>>19260655
The guy who first replied to you was not me, the original poster you were responding to. But LWA's film was great, and I found the anime a complete bore with a formulaic episode structure. I stopped after five episodes.

I am going through VE right now because it seems like a return to their Hyouka form. But it seems like very recently the average show had just become so much less interesting. There are hardly ever shows like Hataraku Maou-sama that just brightened my day out of nowhere. I think the last time I felt that way was with Gekkan Shoujo.

Like I said, it might just be me that has changed. I would rather watch Japanese variety shows, dramas, idol content, or read novels/manga than watch anything that's aired these days. Even Mahoutsukai no Yome, I honestly liked it a lot more in concept than execution. The plot was fairly boring in hindsight. I just liked the setting.

>>19261451
Nah, I could tell that much.

While the LWA series isn't as good as the two films, I think it has the same themes and "feel." It is definitely formulaic, but that doesn't bother me when executed well. It's a shame you dropped it because I think it definitely gets better later in the series after establishing world and chars. If you can get invested there are a few big emotional payoffs by the end. It's all the same beats and themes you would expect from the studio and creators along with stories of this type, but I love it precisely because it doesn't try to do more than it sets out to. It's by far Trigger's most coherent and focused work to date. It's simple, goofy, and just cheesy enough to be like a fun kid's show with a little extra on the side. "Magical" is the best way I can describe it.

I enjoyed EV a lot even though I think there are some pacing issues. It's nuanced take on empathy and humanism really hit me hard. Much harder than Hyouka, but they're fundamentally different stories and hard to compare.

I think a few years back I'd have had difficulty enjoying these, but I've broadened my "approach" to anime so that things don't always have to be masterpiece-tier. If it's fun and comfy that's usually enough. And speaking of comfy and fun and also lolicon, do check Made in Abyss if you haven't. That might be the best series I've seen/read recently.

kyoani and trigger need to be nuked

>>19261573
Of all studios to hate, why Kyoani and Trigger? You want to talk trash, I don't think JC Staff has put out anything but the most mediocre, tone-deaf, fotm bullshit in over a decade.

>>19168598
Just look at /jp/.
Half the time the board is drooling over their own extremists talking about JAV and gravure. If thats not indication of a lesser value of quality hyper interests or a studied specific field than idk what is.

>>19261588
Trigger has produced literally nothing but shit, memes, and Evangelion/Gurren Lagann references. I have no idea why /a/ hates KyoAni though.

>>19259983
>I don't know if anime is worse or if I just don't have time to care anymore. I'd rather not be those bitter fags from the 90s era complaining about moe, but I really don't find most of currently airing anime appealing.
For me, I've tried to say it's not worse, but in the end I've given up. I just don't care about modern anime any more. I thought maybe I didn't like it at all anymore, but I keep getting my eyes caught on older anime. Like I'll browse though youtube looking at stuff and then some 90s ova I've never seen will spring up and I'll end up watching the whole thing. I've just accepted that I really just don't like modern anime and thus modern anime is the problem. I don't know if it's really that I just mostly like sci fi and fun adventures, but I like all sorts of stuff. However, I also like all sorts of video games except the kind that generally get made nowadays. Just like with that, there's something about the storytelling or pacing or maybe just overall genre and the typical things they do in those genres that makes it hard for me to care while I could get several eps into some 90s thing without even trying. I've noticed too, that the modern things I've watched(and enjoyed and completed) in the last few years are nearly exclusively 15 minutes or less, so I really think in the end it's an issue of pacing or too much wasted time in anime going on about boring shit or how cute the girls are. I thought I was just losing my attention span for a while.

Thus, I've come to accept I really do just hate modern anime but not even because of moe or anything replacing my cool shows about spaceships and robots, it's that they just have shit content. I also dislike all the meta humor instead of parody that tends to be the case nowadays. It seems more jaded or ironic instead of just playful or mocking.

Keep your dumb anime-studio-wars in /a/ kudasai.

>>19259492
I've been in this position, and its not like you forget everything after you get invested in the new thing, you come back and start appreciating and enjoying the new works in the old thing even more. Meanwhile if you keep clinging it becomes a chore and you stop enjoying anything.

>>19260655
All of those are pretty shit, scorching tennis girls, ange vierge and active raid are some of the better shows that came out in the last few years on the top of my mind.

>>19261556
I might give LWA another try then. I'd be lying if I didn't say the Tumblr type fans didn't turn me off from trigger after the train wreck of kiznaiver in my eyes. Probably isn't very fair of me.

>>19262479
I mean, I was accused of being part of the industry's moe problem because I like kyoani, but I empathize with you completely despite being from another era. I just don't care about 99% of the things I see whereas I find a few gems from the mid 00s and it captures my interest. I agree with you about the humor. It seems like a very recent development. Extremely recent, even.

>>19263301
The problems with the LWA TV anime was that the first OVA was produced with government funding and the second one was pre-funded via crowdfunding. Therefore the studio didn't have to worry about turning a profit and could afford to not cut corners.

Letting a fanbase ruin your enjoyment of *anything* is self-defeating imho. You might as well avoid drinking coffee because hipsters with shitty haircuts make and drink it. Let your own tastes form in a vacuum, outside of external influences.

>>19263895
>You might as well avoid drinking coffee because hipsters with shitty haircuts make and drink it.
You're joking but there is a whole board that hates onions for that exact reason.

>>19264005
I don't think he's joking. It's a fair analogy, as is yours.
You can look at both and think "gosh that doesn't make much sense, they're ruining their own ability to enjoy things".
Like, there's no way to completely rid yourself from external influence, nor is such a thing desirable. But it's certainly beneficial to learn how much value to place on those external influences.

>>19254699
That's something I see a lot. People call lots of things loli without really understanding what is or isn't loli and it's problematic when being petite and skinny is already a popular ideal in Asia that people love to confuse with loli even when the age and behavior of the girl is 18. Nowadays even if they're wrong they've got plenty of people who don't understand to agree with them and just wanna say "ew loli".

>>19261729
jp seems a lot less in touch now with stuff like doujin music for sure

>>19264141
tru-loli pedos are the worst. They can't accept anything but k-3rd graders as loli.

>>19264238
That's why we need to clear up what isn't loli.

>>19264403
Saying lolis aren't lolis because they're 18 even if they're physically the same as a loli is like saying traps aren't guys.

Saying neotenous traits aren't loli like is wrong too.

>>19263041
Good taste. I recommend giving a try to Concrete Revolutio and Akiba’s Trip if you haven’t yet, since you seem to like fun anime. The new Ushio to Tora anime was also freaking good.

>>19261451
>Even Mahoutsukai no Yome, I honestly liked it a lot more in concept than execution.
Same here. Give a try to Somari to Mori no Kami-sama and Tongari Boushi no Atelier, it’s the same concept as Mahoutsukai no Yome but executed much better. I heard Totsukuni no Shoujo is also great but I haven’t read it yet. And it’s not a ‘girl meets magician/magical creature’ story in this case, but you might like Hakumei to Mikochi, it’s basically comfy fantasy with two thumb-sized lesbian gnomes as main characters.

>>19264690
Regardless, a short, skinny girl with a flat chest is not a loli if she has a fully-developed adult body, even if her being short, skinny and flat chested might make you think otherwise.

It's this confusion that is problematic, especially when unbeknownst to much of the current western anime community it's a common body type in Asia. Calling that loli makes no sense.

>>19246137
>why do people see pedophiles as these horrible people
Maybe because pedophiles want to fuck small children and most people don't want small children to be fucked since they neither consent nor defend themselves?

>>19168598
Does the Genshiken sequel get good at any point? I stopped after like 5 chapters.

>>19269802
It only gets worse. The art is fantastic but everything else is pants-on-head retarded.

>>19269944
I liked the retardation.
It shows exactly what happens when females come into play.
Nearly everyone becomes retarded.

>>19270636
>females
The problem was Madarame and the tranny, the girls did nothing wrong.

>>19271060
Guess who got the tranny into Genshiken in the first place.
Anyway, I enjoyed Genshiken, even Nidaime.
If you thought madarame was acting retarded, it's true, but it's still pretty realistic.
I could imagine myself acting like him in his shoes (while cringing about my own imaginary behavior).
The tranny was pretty realistic too. A bundle of issues and the desire to be desired.

>>19186194
>I mean nowadays there is even a constant Touhou thread on /vg/ instead of people making threads here.
The catalog is always flooded with touhou

People find pedis disgusting because instinctive disgust towards abnormal sexuality (same reason one might feel disgust towards a furry or any other niche fetish) and the fact that it's very culturally unacceptable to associate children with sex in any way, and that someone who indulged pedophilic desire in a real way would be harming kids. If someone said they love scat but don't actually eat shit irl most people would still feel put off by this, combine that with it involving children and it's going to be extremely unacceptable to most. It's not complicated.

>>19272574
>instinctive disgust towards abnormal sexuality
I don't think it's instinctive, more that sexuality is seen as wrong unless its under specific circumstances.

>harming kids.
How exactly?

>>19274249
By indulging their desires in a real way I meant fucking kids. If you think its fine to fuck kids I don't know what to tell you.

>>19271060
I actually like that Madarame gets with skirtboy. Even when he magically gets 3D, against all odds, it's still some kinky shit.

>>19274307
>If you think its fine to fuck kids I don't know what to tell you.
Whether it's fine or not isn't the subject. How is it "harming" them? Is it only sex that is harmful? If a young teen girl licks a dick, will it knock her teeth out or something? Are dicks more harmful than dildos? If a woman manko mashes with a young girl, will she rub it right off? If she does it with a boy, will his dick snap off in the overpowering grip of her adult vaginal muscles?

we should make a godwin's law for /jp/

every discussion of otaku culture in /jp/ eventually becomes about fucking chidlren

>>19274826
more like about 3D vs 2D

>>19248791
Just wanna say these are some excellent posts on lolicon and I agree completely. I will be making use of this reasoning in future arguments.

>>19266185
Totsukuni no Shoujo is excellent and I'd also recommend it. Fair warning for EOPs: the scanlation is much worse than the official Seven Seas translation, in my opinion.

>>19274818
Speaking practically, unless you have a tiny penis, sex will likely be quite painful for the child. Beyond this, trauma responses are mostly rooted in culture rather than some innate aversion to sex. Children are very sexually curious. In older societies where girls were married off at 12-14, we don't see the "abuse" that we do today. That makes me believe that a culture of sexual repression leads to cathartic expressions of violence.

I'm pretty sure that most pedophiles don't want to hurt kids; they love them,, after all. We can't trust research saying pedos are "dangerous" if they're only sampling prison populations.

>How is it "harming" them?
The problem is that once cultural norms are established, practiced, and reinforced, "harm" naturally occurs through socialization (or through literal harm if the perpetrator is cruel and antisocial). It can also be harmful if the child has no autonomy and no choice whether or not to engage in sex; this last point applies to everyone though, not just kids.

tl;dr even though it logically follows that sex isn't harmful per se, its practice in social/cultural reality is markedly different.

>>19275527
Do people actually argue about lolicon material offline?

>>19276180
Not really, but I do have a close irl friend who is very firmly against it that I argue with all the time.

>>19274818
I'm talking about prepubescent children, not teenagers.

>>19274818
>>19275624
This. A lot if it is culture, and you can say that's bullshit all you want, but culture can't be overridden that easily. Kids who've been fucked or molested by adults do tend to negatively impact sexual development one way or another after they grow up.

Kids are indeed sexually curious. They "play doctor", masturbate or try to, look at porn if thry manage to find it. That's all normal and rarely causes trauma. But a kid can't understand sex the way you do or even enjoy it the way you do. Their brains and bodies are quite literally not developed enough for it. You should read up on stages of development if you haven't, children's brains work pretty differently than adults, moreso the younger they are. For a child, full sexual activity will be at best somewhat confusing and uncomfortable at best, and at worst painful and scary. When someone who's been molested gets old enough to fully understand what happened, they'll realize an adult who fully understood what they were doing used them to get off when they were too young to understand what was going on. Not many people will be able to feel okay about that when they grow up. You can argue that they shouldn't care so much because sex shouldn't be treated as such a big deal, but that's the way things are and it isn't likely to change.

Note I'm only talking about kids here; teenagers are another story entirely.

>>19277146
>Their brains and bodies are quite literally not developed enough for it
This is the main rationale for why kids "cannot consent." They don't achieve adult-level cognitive abilities until their teenage years and even then, their behavior is more impulsive and less regulated.

If sadistic loli bitches were real then maybe I'd be a pedo, but they aren't so I cannot.

>>19276880
I think that's another semantic point worth arguing as well, to add to what's loli and not.
Pedophilia refers specifically to prepubescence, not just anything below whatever country's legal sex age is.
It's a term for being ATTRACTED to prepubescent kids, those physically unprepared for reproductive behaviour. Whether or not there's any desire or intent to actually do anything to them; though as >>19272574 pointed out such distinctions don't actually matter much in others' immediate perceptions.

>>19277146
>>19277311
So a prepubescent 12 year old will be physically harmed but not a pubescent 13 year old? Or are you talking about 5 year olds now?

>>19277146
>They "play doctor", masturbate or try to, look at porn if thry manage to find it. That's all normal and rarely causes trauma.
So will they be hurt if they engage in mutual masturbation or will that hurt them too because they can't understand masturbation the same way as an adult?

>>19277260
>If sadistic loli bitches were real
They are. Try adopting a kid. Eromanga loli bitches though... I can't recall one that wasn't in the tween/pubescent age.

>>19277417
>They are. Try adopting a kid.
Hell no. I'm not going to take responsibility!

I just want a lolibitch to bully me and step on me and then I'll turn the tables and make her a slave to my cock!

Stop using loli to refer to real kids and stop comparing loli to real kids.

>>19168598
I love broken necks.

>>19277417
Are you being obtuse on purpose? We're mostly talking about psychological harm and not physical harm (though there can be that too, depends on several factors).

>>19277417
>So a prepubescent 12 year old will be physically harmed but not a pubescent 13 year old?
Yes, actually. Puberty prepares you for reproduction. If the 13 year old has just reached puberty then she could probably be hurt as well. Prepubescent kids will probably always be hurt by sex.

Unless you have a tiny penis; then the only thing that will hurt is your pride as the loli steps on your worthless, phimosis weiner.

>>19277623
Don't be so hard on him. He's just trying to rationalize his desire to fugg little kids. I am not one to judge.

>>19277671
Well techincally kids reach puberty at different ages. Rule of thumb I'd say is if they've both reached puberty and developed abstract thinking. From there you can argue about naivety and impulsivity, but there bodies are both more capable of sex and they're able to understand it. You still shouldn't get a 13 year old pregnant, their bodies can't really handle it yet.

You people act like there aren't curvy 12 year olds that you wouldn't guess were that young if you didn't know.

>>19277701
Why is it that humans need to "understand" sex anyway, but animals get it just by doing it?

>>19277671
>She
>her
What about a boy vs a woman?

>>19277790
Humans have more complicated brains than most animals so more things affect them, there's a better way to put that so that's basically it. Human reproduction is already fairly different from most other mammals as it is, who just go into heat sometimes but otherwise don't care about sex when they aren't. They also don't usually fuck others that aren't already sexually developed. It's because humans can think so much that we do a lot of weird shit and get hung up on various things.

This is like asking why is it okay for dolphins to murder each other for fun but humans aren't supposed to? Humans aren't the same as other animals and different species don't have much control over how other ones will act anyway.

>>19277701
>Rule of thumb I'd say is if they've both reached puberty and developed abstract thinking.
Not sure about this. Girls develop earlier and faster physically, but I'm not sure if this runs parallel to cognitive development.

And yeah puberty does happen at different ages, but from what I can remember from school, those girls who got their period and such were still annoying brats years after the fact. Their bodies matured but their brains didn't it seems.

>>19277817
That is straight shota! (I think shota is nice too)

>>19277817
If a boy has gone through puberty (read: can cum from peepee), he'll usually enjoy fucking an older lady. For a boy who hasn't it's weird and gross, from accounts I've read at least. Boys have less trauma in general from this kind of thing than girls for a variety of reasons, but it can still be damaging depending on the circumstances.

>>19213735
>, I think that the extreme popularity of idol shows in the west might just be a weird obsession that ironic facebook-type weebs that use "waifu" to refer to any female anime character and say sentences that include the words "lewd the" are pushing right now.

I agree with this.
A lot of people on /jp/ complain that Anime/Otakustuff is "mainstream". But it isn't. The so called mainstream consumers are only interested in surface level shit. I once met a girl who said how Love Live "hit her in the feels". Clearly her standard for emotionally affecting media is pretty fucking low. And she was your typical ironic weeb type.

>>19278008
>Love Live "hit her in the feels"
I have a pretty low standard for emotionally affecting media myself, but fucking love live?

>>19278085
You will find the female fixation in media is on characters and characters alone. This is because they are socially oriented.

The standard for plot need not even exist.

>>19278231

>>19278231
I think a lot of men are like this too, if recent trends in anime are any indicator

>>19278251
People underestimate female involvement in anime and assume they only care about cute boy shows.

>>19278362
What kind of anime do females like?

>>19278378
「2018冬アニメ、何観るアンケート」全体&男女別ランキング結果発表
https://www.animatetimes.com/news/details.php?id=1506423404
2018春アニメランキング！「何観るアンケート」全体＆男女別ランキング結果発表！
https://www.animatetimes.com/news/details.php?id=1520498445

looks like some mix of adventure, comedy, romance, historical, and cute boy shows
guys are voting in adventure, comedy, romcom, isekai, and cute girl shows

truly a mindblowing set of revealed preferences here

>>19278378
「2018冬アニメ、何観るアンケート」全体&男女別ランキング結果発表
https://www.animatetimes.com/news/details.php?id=1506423404
2018春アニメランキング！「何観るアンケート」全体＆男女別ランキング結果発表！
https://www.animatetimes.com/news/details.php?id=1520498445

looks like some mix of adventure, comedy, romance, historical, and cool boy shows
guys are voting in adventure, comedy, romcom, isekai, and cute girl shows

truly a mindblowing set of revealed preferences here

>>19278525
Yeah that's pretty unsurprising

>>19278378
Edgy ones, from the ones I've known. Vampires and demons and goth clothing and shit. Also ones with cute characters. Shows with lots of girls are popular too because girls like to ship characters and will ship girls together as much as guys or guy-girl couples. Actually it's baffled me that 4chan sometimes thinks y/u/rifags are males. Maybe they are on 4chan though. Guys(moebuta) seem more about yuri in a "pure love only, no sex allowed, boys shouldn't exist with their nasty dicks" kind of way.

Honestly, girls who like anime seem kinda homo sometimes, given they like pretty boys who dress and act like girls and pretty girls themselves. Then again, some guys are all about traps too, although "traps for guys" seem different somehow. Probably because they're literally just girls with dicks whereas the kind for girls act masculine sometimes.

I wonder, do males actually like sports anime? Like sports is a male oriented things, but girls eat them up like guys like magical girl shows. Are there any non-fighting sports series that basically only males read?

The ones I've known also would generally watch the same kind of shows I like too, with a few exceptions(e.g. I think women are unable to appreciate giant robots just as I am unable to appreciate demonic butlers). Dog Days is probably the biggest surprise since I figured they wouldn't like a show about animal girls who get their clothes blown off all the time.

But anyway my point was, girls, as in female otaku and not necessarily fujoshi, like all kinds of anime and spend a lot of money on them(even the ones I know have much more anime shit than me, provided I don't have *that* much.) and thus drive the industry. They probably drive the doujin industry too, give females tend to be more prone to fanfiction.

>>19278231
Sort of. Honestly, they don't even need to consume the base media. Sometimes just the characters are enough. Maybe that's why touhou is popular with young Japanese girls?

>>19278542
You just hang out with edgy weirdo lezzie girls. They don't represent most girls.

>>19278525
>>19278542
Oh yeah, I don't recall any of them ever liking(or watching) a "romcom", but I don't like those either.

>>19278552
>tfw girl and watch romcom harem

>>19278525
Wow, really? Boys are scum.

>>19278542
Men like sports anime for the sportsmanship and competitions, women like it for hot boys. Women like mahou shoujo for the cutesie girliness, men like it for the cute girls themselves.

>>19278525
followup: i guess if you want numbers for hardcore fujo are into as opposed to the average female anime watcher (or at least the one who responds to animate surveys the general C92 series numbers should give you an idea: http://ascii.jp/elem/000/001/527/1527386/

the "female-oriented series" listed here are tokuen ranbu, yuri on ice, haikyuu, osomatsu-san, tiger & bunny, kuroko no basuke, attack on titan, ensemble stars, yowamushi pedal, world trigger, hetalia (i had no idea this was still a thing), kekkai sensen, and boku no hero academia. i assume the big decline in every series other than yuri on ice is due to cannibalization by yuri on ice.

female fans are also represented but in smaller number among the male-dominated series such as touhou, idolmaster, love live, and so on. since they have a booth at comiket they're by definition more hardcore than you, so don't trot out the "ironic weeb" shit, you're one hundred times more ironic weeb than they are. except maybe the cosplayers. but honestly probably not.

>>19278552
guys voted romcoms into spots #1 and #2 in winter and spring, i feel like this is non-standard but wotakoi and takagi-san are in my assessment fairly non-standard romcoms. but i don't really watch them anyway.

>>19278525
followup: i guess if you want numbers for hardcore fujo are into as opposed to the average female anime watcher (or at least the one who responds to animate surveys) the general C92 series numbers should give you an idea: http://ascii.jp/elem/000/001/527/1527386/

the "female-oriented series" listed here are tokuen ranbu, yuri on ice, haikyuu, osomatsu-san, tiger & bunny, kuroko no basuke, attack on titan, ensemble stars, yowamushi pedal, world trigger, hetalia (i had no idea this was still a thing), kekkai sensen, and boku no hero academia. i assume the big decline in every series other than yuri on ice is due to cannibalization by yuri on ice.

female fans are also represented but in smaller number among the male-dominated series such as touhou, idolmaster, love live, and so on. since they have a booth at comiket they're by definition more hardcore than you, so don't trot out the "ironic weeb" shit, you're one hundred times more ironic weeb than they are. except maybe the cosplayers. but honestly probably not.

>>19278552
guys voted romcoms into spots #1 and #2 in winter and spring, i feel like this is non-standard but wotakoi and takagi-san are in my assessment fairly non-standard romcoms. but i don't really watch them anyway.

>>19278569
i'm not entirely sure it's just cutsie girliness, the whole idea of being a magical girl who secretly fights monsters and saves the world is just something that girls seem to like. in spring 2018 girls are watching mahou shoujo ore even though it's quite possibly by definition the least girly magical girl show around, but guys aren't watching it because it's not cute. it was original a girls' genre in the beginning.

>>19278542
>"pure love only, no sex allowed, boys shouldn't exist with their nasty dicks" kind of way
Lesbo /u/fags get like that too

>>19278525
followup: i guess if you want numbers for hardcore fujo are into as opposed to the average female anime watcher (or at least the one who responds to animate surveys) the general C92 series numbers should give you an idea: http://ascii.jp/elem/000/001/527/1527386/

the "female-oriented series" listed here are tokuen ranbu, yuri on ice, haikyuu, osomatsu-san, tiger & bunny, kuroko no basuke, attack on titan, ensemble stars, yowamushi pedal, world trigger, hetalia (i had no idea this was still a thing), kekkai sensen, and boku no hero academia. i assume the big decline in every series other than yuri on ice is due to cannibalization by yuri on ice.

female fans are also represented but in smaller number among the male-dominated series such as touhou, idolmaster, love live, and so on. since they have a booth at comiket they're by definition more hardcore than you, so don't trot out the "ironic weeb" shit, you're one hundred times more ironic weeb than they are. except maybe the cosplayers. but honestly probably not.

>>19278552
guys voted romcoms into spots #1 and #2 in winter and spring, i feel like this is non-standard but wotakoi and takagi-san are in my assessment fairly non-standard romcoms. i don't really watch them either.

>>19278569
i'm not entirely sure it's just cutsie girliness, the whole idea of being a magical girl who secretly fights monsters and saves the world is just something that girls seem to like. in spring 2018 girls are watching mahou shoujo ore even though it's quite possibly by definition the least girly magical girl show around, but guys aren't watching it because it's not cute. it was originally a girls' genre to start with.

>>19278619
>boku no hero academia
Is that really a female oriented series? Like fujos love most shounen but that doesn't make them female oriented

>>19278525
The spring one isn't too different at least, but this is the key part.

>男女比は、「女性：男性＝7：3」です
>女性7割、男性3割の比率になり

Females are the ones driving anime trends

>>19278629
My sister loves that show and got into it from one of her female friends at least.

>>19278640
Yeah I'm just saying girls are kind of a periphery demographic, they still have a wider audience

>>19278633
Women just like polls more than men

>>19278629
in the context at comiket it means that most of the doujinshi being made are by girls for girls. series like attack on titan, gintama, and boku no hero somewhat mainstream and fairly popular with both genders, but in terms of comiket the people who care enough to be producing fanbooks for them are mostly girls. of course, guys like the girls from these series and produce fanbooks for them too, but i think they're fairly outnumbered. hagakure a cute.

>>19278633
>>19278659
i'm a little curious as to how the survey was done but not enough to actually find out. well, in terms of what's actually "driving anime trends" though you want to look at revenue instead of numbers, but those don't breakdown by gender. someone did post 2017 series revenue here: https://i.4cdn.org/jp/1528345372897.jpg

someone who actually cares can break that one down if they want to.

What's the appeal of idol stuff? I like most cute girl anime but I can't get into idols. Do you have to like the music?

>>19278756
You have to like the passion and the hype of excitement tied to identity.
The music you only really need to tolerate, at the very least. Liking it does help but it's usually secondary at best.

>>19278814
I can enjoy that for most things, I think I just have a distate for idols as a concept.

>>19278836
Maybe those other things have some other strong benefits for distraction.
I can't stand excitement strictly tied to identity, rather than capability or other content. It's just too egoistic. But I can certainly understand others liking it.

>>19278756
I could never get into idols because I can't stop think about them having to fuck a gauntlet of old men to get where they are.

For some reason the anime "Cat Soup" was extremely popular in early 2000's anime fandom. It was one of those DVDs everyone seemed to have, that and Lain.

>>19274249
>>19277417
>>19277790
the fucking state of /jp/ that this sort of stuff has to be explained to what are presumable adults

This is more embarrassing than the usual

>>19279870
this is just business as usual for /jp/

the next time we have this thread we should preemptively ban all discussion of sex with IRL children

>>19168598
There really wasn't "otaku culture" in the west prior to reliable distribution of decent quality videos online. In the 90's we mailed blank VHS tapes to fansubbers who made a copy from their own master tapes. That's if you were lucky. Otherwise you got a 2nd or 3rd or worse generation copy and the quality suffered.

People were into Japanese stuff but without the internet being so widespread it was difficult to connect with others who shared your interest so it was a much more niche and isolated fandom.

>>19278378
They like all sorts of stuff, but probaly romance and some action stuff (with hot guys). Female mangaka who like yuri, like Aoki Ume, are the best though. A female yuri fan is probably one with the best perspective to create a good yuri romance.

>>19278756
2D idols allow you to enjoy all the things associated with 2D while keeping up with the performance and growth narratives of the idols. I can't get into 3D idols so I'm glad that they make 2D ones.

The two most important things for me are: 1) Yuri ships and 2) music.I also like when idol series have gimmicky characters Im@s CG does this very well. By not taking things seriously and enjoying it despite, or even because of the artificiality, you can really get into it which makes it rewarding. I can't do 3D idols because it's obviously artificial and fake (those girls are not pure maidens), but there's a subculture of delusion around it. 2D idols don't have that paradox. They truly are maidens.

>>19279901
>lets ban discussion
Modern normalfaggot filled 4chan right here.

>>19181286
Speaking of normalfag. worst thing to read or see are people asking for anime to be less sexist/hetro. why are u even consuming something with this mindset.
worst thing i read in the last 6-10 years are the people who are calling shirou sexit while not trying to understand his characte. fuck those people

>>19281059
Retard who can't stay on topic right here.

>>19280994
How about you get into something better. Like ML

>>19281136
I hate that shit. Who the fuck are you to tell a country on the other side of the world that their entertainment isn't "progressive" enough? It isn't for you. It's by and for Japan. If you don't like it, go watch The Walking Dead or whatever.

>>19281136
Is it possible for anime to be less hetero?

>>19281183
How about you play iM@S on a real console

people who complain about normalfags are more annoying than normalfags

>>19281471
No they aren't.
People who complain about "normies" though...

>>19281505
normalfags leave me alone and i leave them alone. their effect on me is zero. people who whine about normalfaggotry are annoying because they bring annoying shit here into /jp/ to share with everyone and then expect everyone to celebrate how wonderfully non-normal they are.

>>19281471
people who complain about people who complain about normalfags are more annoying than people who complain about normalfags

>>19281455
I do. But the new ones are not worth playing. everyone should play im@s 2 though

>>19179468
>>19179526
I know my post is a bit late in this thread but as an "extrovert otaku" who was born in 1998 and has spent a good amount of my years underaged b& and being raised by 4chan to some degree, I feel like you are pretty accurate. I don't collect very many things because I find large collections of figures and posters to be socially and economically hindering to my social life like you said and it's true, people my age have smartphones that have replaced many facets of the otaku experience. But I feel like there is not necessarily a difference between an extrovert and introvert otaku other than the quality of their social life IRL. There is just a lot of pressure nowadays with how integrated the internet is in my generation to do things online. I spend money on lots of virtual things so I can spend time with my friends online when we are not doing things together in real life. The same goes for otaku things and you ran it down pretty accurately in that regard. I do have 1 figure and a body pillow as well as a massive crate of hentai that I keep hidden from everyone and I suspect many people are similar to me in that regard, as we enjoy otaku things and watch anime but because it holds a negative stigma to physically IRL be apart of those things, people express themselves online privately and collect things there instead of haveing a huge figure collection that might make people think you have autism.

The negative stigma I mentioned is absolutely a thing and being a "weeb" will leave you as a castaway. Being an "ironic weeb" is what is cool. Every highschool has an anime club nowadays and it's filled to the brim with social rejects and hyper autists. Anything anime related that is "cool" is hyper casualified through meme culture. There are many people I know in real life who would be willing to watch an anime every once in a while but definitely not be considered an otaku at all, unless they are good at hiding their more dedicated body pillow owning side from everyone. Anime is more mainstream now but you still wouldn't want to be caught dead being "serious" about the hobby.

>>19281971
I need to state that anime clubs are autism in a bad way, narutards, fairytail, attack on titan, magic of the gathering, that kind of autism. not people who enjoy anime and japanese culture autism

>>19168598
In the first place otaku culture has always been split between normie taste fans who liked things like Inuyasha, Naruto, DBZ, Bleach, etc and fans who liked things like Lucky Star, Haruhi, 2hu, lolis, played vns, etc

Just one group grew more than the other. People complain about anime becoming mainstream, but anime as an interest as it is on places like 4chan didn't grow. Anime as a niche but regardless still normie interest did, probably because of exposure to normie kids through anime like Naruto and DBZ on TV. Now there's even a whole generation that got started on AoT and SAO, disgustingly enough. But it's not like their taste is any worse than Narutards were.

The difference you see on 4chan, especially /a/ is the growing middle ground between these two groups.

>>19282196
For example Darling in the Franxx is a middle ground anime.

>>19282204
between what? complete trash and the local landfill?

>>19282214
Well, I never claimed it wasn't shit. I mean in terms of popularity. Anime club kids and 4chan are talking about it.

And the fact that it's popular among mainstream anime fans is exactly why some people on here fucking hate it so much.

>>19278542
I've met many girls who claim to be fans of media who have NEVER consumed the base product. They don't get the idea of canon, so doujin and fanfiction are big for them. They are fixated on character relationships whether fanfic or original, with little distinction between tge two. Giant robots are things, not people, so they don't give a damn. This is why the biggest fan communities for women are based around fanfics and shipping. There are female geeks out there who only care about shipping and nothing else. They'll start a new show without any romance or sexuality and say "omg I ship them!". I knew a Japanese Fujo whose only attraction to WH40k was shipping Guilliman and Fulgrim with Leman Russ as part of their love triangle. She didn't even know what Dark Eldar were.

Look at gaming, women picked it up when it became social. Women picked up computing when social networking became big. They will prioritize social aspects of a work over anything else. There are exceptions to this, but it generally tends to be the case.

>>19282430
>Look at gaming, women picked it up when it became social.
I don't know, they can like games normally when they're younger.

>>19281971
Meme culture itself overall has taken over quite hard.
Like you said, you're free and expected to enjoy entertainment, particularly otaku entertainment in this context, but NOT to take it seriously.
That applies to practically everything.
People take 'taking things seriously' as a personal attack, one to bring them out of their satirical comfort zone. Having only really learned to socialize through satire, that leaves some of them lost, confused, and sometimes even scared, depending on the severity. Uncomfortable to say the least. And that can easily create rifts between people.

Not to say it's an all infecting problem or shout for doom. But it has become pretty normal.
I mean there's been other popular hard set social comfort zones in the past, like talking about sports or bitching about work. Things people would be expected to understand and bond with, without deep thought or articulation. So it's nothing new. But satire is quite a bit more insidious and difficult to work past.

I miss when the internet was edgy and about spamming gore at each other and stuff.

>>19282658
I have trust issues because people loved spamming jumpscare so much back then

>>19277146
I was molested, personally, by a pedophile when I was a 9 year old boy. He was gentle, gave me sweets and did not inflict pain on me, so I ended up having no bad impressions. I'm inherently bisexual (as I later came to know) so I'm fine with the idea of having sex with a man, so that played a role, of course. I obviously didn't really get what was going on at the time, but I kind of liked it, it was something different and interesting. A month later I had already all but forgotten about the incident. I mean, it's possible that girls are just going to react to it differently, but I can perfectly imagine one with an experience similar to mine. I struggled for a long time to understand why people think sex must necessarily hurt the child and I just don't know. It doesn't seem that way to me.

Incidentally, I'm not a lolicon, I'm overwhelmingly into yuri. My 2 cents.

>>19282463
But then they get older and it becomes impossible for them?

>>19282751
I'd said in another post that boys are less likely to be traumatized by this, so that's not terribly abnormal based on your circumstances.

Being molested might be part of why you're bi though

>>19282960
There's a theory that early exposure to highly sexual content or molestation is a driving force for people ending up gay or trans.

>>19278756
If you want an idol game with good music, play Tokyo 7th Sisters.

>>19282430
Girls have always liked JRPGs, especially Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts, I imagine the bishounen is a big aspect. In KH case it was always about the homoerotic tones and their inherit love of anything Disney so it ended up the perfect game for them.

>>19282430
>>19283031
Women are such fuckimg casuals

>>19282960
Fair enough. I'm glad to be bi whatever the cause, because loving both girls and dicks feels fantastic to me. I'm very much into yuri-like futanari (so to speak) for the sexual content. I find believing that I'm inherently bisexual to be easier than thinking that people around me have been educated/brought up wrong for not sharing my sexuality, as that can be almost horrifying, sometimes.

>>19283011
I was an avid watcher of porn by the time I was 10.

>trans
I'd probably enjoy being a cute girl, but in general my attachment towards the real world is low, so I'm content with keeping it 2D just as the good lolicons do. I'm reluctant to actually give up being a man for good, too. Something about losing my masculine thought patterns just seems scary, and when I fantasize about doing it with a man, I'm sexually interested in being fully male as well. Anyway, last dream I had was of me being a girl in a SoL kind of thing and I loved it from start to finish. I think that's what bisexuality means to me, it's enjoying sex itself, being attracted to it.

>>19282933
Seems like it. Although by games, I mean ones that aren't MMOs, online FPS, or phone games, you know social things like the other post said.

>>19283154
>my sexuality is the "right" sexuality
Wew

>>19283167
Why would that be the case? If they enjoted something before there's no reason they would stop.

>>19283154
Becoming trans won't make you lose masculine thought patterns as much as trans people wish it did, it'll just mess with your brain and make you a freak of nature. There's a good reason trans women alienate most real women with their behavior.

>>19283169
It just means I don't hate myself. If I take my sexuality to be acquired however, then I may be driven to pity for others who have not had such luck. Selfish? To be sure, but that's what goes through my mind. Anyway, like I said, that's not what I'm actually doing.

>>19283211
You can like your sexuality without feeling like everyone else would be better off having it.

>>19283237
I don't think that everyone needs to be like me, at least, that's what rationally makes sense to me. The undercurrents of being an asshole without empathy I just have to suppress with reason.

Before I might say anything else, I apologize for being insolent. I've been excluded from society for pretty good reasons.

The 'new' change I'm seeing is rpg-maker doujin games more popular than ever. And everything else less popular in favor of gacha kuso-mobage.

>>19283175
I dunno, girls are weird. Maybe that what "growing out of" something is.

>>19283994
>rpg-maker doujin games more popular than ever
Really? Seems like it died off after the ``horror'' game wave. RPG maker ero doujin games may be increasing though.

>>19284085
I miss the RPG maker horror game wave

>>19284046
I know girls who didn't.

>>19284155
Are they past their early 20s?

>>19284245
Yeah. Is early 20s when they're supposed to stop?

Ir's more like I'd see teens still being in to it vs adults. Do they actually play real games and not just online/mobile shit and RPGs?

>>19284270
*It's more like I'd lump in early 20s with teens and I'd see teens etc.

>>19284270
Are RPGs not real games

>>19284326
not to /v/ermin

>>19284326
"this geek girl I know plays JRPGs(KH/FF/TWEWY) sometimes like every other geek girl" isn't really convincing anecdotal evidence.

>>19284429
What counts as a real game? I think anything is fine as long as it's not mobile trash ir exceedingly bottom barrel (shit like fortnite)

>>19284429
Also the original position was girls only like mobile games, FPS, and MMOs because they're social. Single player RPGs and other games geek girls tend to like are not those games and also not terribly social experiences in and of themselves.

>>19284524
>>19284478
Here's a better question, what do they actually play?

>>19282430
>Look at gaming, women picked it up when it became social
Jap fujos have been big consumers of video games for decades, and the amount of knowledge and dedication I've seen from them for stuff like SMT blows any Western fan out of the water. Also how do you know that character relationships are the only thing they care about and not just a big part of it? Character relationships are an important part of any story, moreso than giant robots even in a mecha anime.

>>19284698
There will be a female minority into any popular game, as far as jap games girls tend to like JRPGs, and easily accessible things like fire emblem, pokemon, zelda, animal crossing etc.

>>19284706
If anything in your mecha anime is more important than the mecha you've either failed or it's not really a mecha anime, just a anime where mecha happen to exist.

>>19284734
I have a hard time thinking of any mecha series that aren't character driven.

>>19284734
Unless the anime is an in depth explanation of all the mecha parts and workings every episode, that's not possible. Everything should be tied to the mechas, but the mechas by themselves can't make a story since mechas don't do anything unless they're being controlled by people.

There's a shit ton of otaku that only like things because there's cute girls in it. Many won't even touch a game/manga/anime if there's no cute girls in it. It probably looks like the majority of male otaku to an outside observer.

>>19284791
I'll watch something with males as long as it's not fujobait