/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Какая же все-таки Сырно тупая, пиздец просто.

>>18987274
From my point of view, Reimu defeats Marisa in IN

>>18987274
>Yukari is known as the strongest Youkai
Not stronger than Yuuka, Yuugi, or Yuyuko's sealed youkai cherry tree thing. Weakest Yu, would not fuck.

>>18987325
No u.

>>18987274
>Yukari is known as the strongest Youkai
no

>>18987422
>>18988102
Lol, your puny magic, raw strength and ability to cause death are nothing against something that can fundamentally undermine reality.

>>18988325
BUTTBLASTED HAG

>>18987422
Saigyou Ayakashi is NOT a Yu. Yuyuko is a Yu. They are different.

Good thread

>>18987393
Yukari loses to Reimoo.
Reimoo and Mareesa draw.
Cirno beats Mariisa
Yukari<Reimu=Marisa<Cirno

>>18987677
Your image anon.
Traumatizing.

>>18988325
Yukari can be wiped from existence.
She can't do anything if she doesn't know what's happening. Anon. No if, ands, buts, or whys ya delusional poster.

>>18992559
That's spell card battles. The entire point of them is that anyone can beat anyone.

>>18992572
Wiped out of existence by what? The only one who has that ability is Yukari herself. Also considering that Yukari is immune to time manipulation as shown by her just ignoring Keine erasing the history of the human village she is probably a lot more resistant to that than anyone else besides Reimu and the Hourais.

>>18994604
Seeing through some illusion Keine made doesn't mean Yukari is immune to time manipulation.

>>18994813
Keine doesn't simply create illusions like Reisen does, she hides or rewrites history.

>>18994922
No she doesn't you. Read her profile you baka.
>Abilities: Eating (concealing) history

>>18994938
>(concealing) history
>is somehow not the same as hiding history
?

>>18994604
>Wiped out of existence by what?
A certain lunarian's fan, for instance.

>The only one who has that ability is Yukari herself.
Flandre can, as far as we know, destroy anything just by wanting it destroyed. Keine could theoretically erase her history, and thus erase her. I imagine Kaguya might be able to fiddle with something given her manipulation of eternity. Yukari is also not actually invincible despite her claims (but of course her claims would be so lofty), so even a character like Letty could probably kill her by using her stupidly broken, allegedly limitless power over increasing the effects of cold and cold weather. Who else...?

Yamame with Eirin's help, perhaps (maybe without), could create a disease that could kill her, Reimu could exterminate her absolutely if she ever honestly had to, Suika is *probably* stronger than her, since her strength is so absurd Gensokyo literally didn't know what to do with it when she came back, and if she lets entirely loose reality itself will bend to try to stop it (seriously, this is in Yukari's IaMP ending).

There's probably other examples. Yukari is very powerful, but she's not absolute and really, her bigger thing is being mysterious and unknown: a youkai.

>>18994975

Eiki could kick all of their asses.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/d78f7d23-c78f-42a3-9989-bec5185f00ce

>>18995001
Probably, yes. Her judgements and existence are ACTUALLY absolute to what she presides over: Gensokyo.

Though Heca tops her.

>>18994960
You were talking about erasing and rewriting. Not the same thing. Also saying that concealing history causes time manipulation is a massive stretch, like you said it's just a illusion.

>>18994975
Those are all just simple physical means of destruction. Perhaps Yukari is not totally invincible (even though it's been stated multiple times that she is but continue ignoring that) but she is still definitely the strongest. And perhaps more importantly she is by far the most versatile. She can copy all things you stated by simply manipulating the right boundary.

>her bigger thing is being mysterious and unknown
I agree. Yukari mostly is just playing at being a chessmaster and doesn't fight directly. You know why she does that? Because if she didn't her power would break the entire story.

from Strange Creators of Outer World:

>Yukari's ability is the "manipulation of boundaries".
>It's a far-too-powerful ability that can, logically speaking, affect anything.
>Naturally, if she put this ability to its full use it wouldn't even be a game,
so for the purposes of the narrative she fights within the spellcard rules.
>Then again, it seems she was involved in the creation of these rules in the first place, so...

>>18995011
I think manipulating history does count as a form of time manipulation. But even ignoring that, Maribel demonstrated the ability to go back in time, and even if you don't believe they are the same person, Yukari has the same powers and is far stronger so logically she would be able to exist unbound normal time a lot easier than Maribel as well.

>>18995017
>even though it's been stated multiple times that she is but continue ignoring that
By her, who bowed to Toyohime because she was worried that the woman would utterly destroy her and then all of Gensokyo for her transgressions.

>still definitely the strongest
No. Hell, that's probably Yuuka in terms of youkai, but who even knows?

Also I wouldn't call Yukari a chessmaster, I would call her mysterious and unknown. While she has schemed in the past and it is highly possible Gensokyo itself and the barrier and even the spell card rules are due to her tampering, her tampering is very chaotic as seen in SSiB, and especially more lately where many incidents have just been entirely beyond her to the point that she has essentially said "Eh, fuck it!" when told that Gensokyo could get seriously fucked over by stuff like the Lunar Orb and Urban Legends incident (which is still unresolved). She basically goes with gambits and hopes. She put Yuyuko in place for SSiB not because she had a plan, but because she figured Yuyuko would sufficiently troll the lunarians and lo, she did. Could've gone horribly for her, though, hence the bowing to a lunarian's feet things.

Her power is pretty interesting and capable, but she is simply not all-powerful. If you want something all-powerful in the setting, it's probably the Dragon God. Yukari, by her own admission, isn't even as capable as Tenshi for instance (though of course she doesn't, as Tenshi is a celestial), and other youkai have more tangible claims of genuine power.

>>18995053
>so for the purposes of the narrative she fights within the spellcard rules
Every powerful being in Touhou being fight with spellcards, your point?
>>18995053
>I think
I think doesn't mean it applies.

>>18995066
>It's stated by her
No, it's stated by ZUN every time Yukari made an appearance. Every time he said that boundary manipulation can do basically everything.

>Yuuka is the strongest
She was in PC-98 canon. Windows canon overrides PC-98.

>isn't even as capable as Tenshi
Suika bullied Tenshi into giving her piece of heaven and Yukari is at least on the same level as Suika.

>>18995118
Tenshi allowed Suika's bullying and regretted it, and then trounced everyone soundly at the end of SWR because Celestials, like Lunarians, are overpowered and that's one of the reasons Yukari loathes them.

Yuuka is still quite fucking strong in Windows canon, as it was never made clear whether or not she could rival Gensokyo's top dog: Shiki Eiki.

I remember Yukari herself claiming invincibility but I also remember her supplication before the fan under threat of dissolution. I'm going to take that more seriously than the boastful boaster who has been known to blatantly oversell her own capabilities and essentially make attempts to rewrite history in order to make her seem more grandiose than she actually is. I think. ZUN would support any of those claims without outright saying she's a braggart because that would be better than just writing her off as a braggart, and not letting players and readers notice how often Yukari's ass is handed to her, while others demonstrate far more impressive feats than connecting a lake to the moon.

Furthermore I noticed you ignored my statements about Suika but again for what it's worth, if not Yuuka, Suika is probably legitimately the most powerful youkai running about in Gensokyo. The idea that her full power is so immense that essentially Gensokyo, the land of forgotten things, forgot it and wouldn't be able to process it speaks volumes. This manifests most lightly in how her gourd is supposed to flow limitless sake but can only pour a single gourdful at a time in Gensokyo because Gensokyo is like "what? that's bullshit" This is not my speculation, this is IaMP.

>>18995066
>By her, who bowed to Toyohime because she was worried that the woman would utterly destroy her and then all of Gensokyo for her transgressions.
Do you really think that, or did you just not read the manga to the end? It was Yukari's plan to make Toyohime take the bait from the start. If she was worried about that, why would she risk herself?

>>18995180
Because Yukari is fucking crazy?

Why would she risk reviving the Saigyou Ayakashi? Why would she not only allow, but START the rumor about the end of the world during the Urban Legends incident, knowing that it could actually lead to the end of the world as a result? Why would she provoke the first Lunar War, despite all its dangers? Why would she allow Sagume's Lunar Orb to remain in Gensokyo despite knowing it has potentially dire consequences?

Why risk herself, personally?

Why not?

>>18995180
Bait or not. Toyo's fan is a weapon of mass destruction that can easily wipe out Gensokyo.

>>18995179
>Tenshi allowed Suika's bullying and regretted it, and then trounced everyone soundly
She still didn't manage to kick Suika out though.

>Yuuka is still quite fucking strong
Of course she is, why would I deny that. I just said that Yukari is stronger.

>I also remember her supplication before the fan under threat of dissolution. I'm going to take that more seriously
You take THAT seriously? Really? Yukari was in the process of robbing Toyohime at that exact moment and you think she wouldn't put up an act then? Not to mention that she later tells Ran that she was in fact acting her outrage.

>Gensokyo wouldn't be able to process Suikas power speaks volumes
Can you give me a source on that, I legitimately don't remember that.


>>18995198
Yukari can easily do that too, so that doesn't say all that much.

>>You take THAT seriously? Really? Yukari was in the process of robbing Toyohime at that exact moment and you think she wouldn't put up an act then? Not to mention that she later tells Ran that she was in fact acting her outrage.
She wasn't acting when she bowed, nor was she outraged, she had to do this or things would go very badly for her and her land.

>>18995255
How is this not acting, exactly?

>>18995231
>Yukari can easily do that too
Maybe. But we're talking here about Toyo and others now, not to mention that the fact that she is "merely pretending" her powers all the time doesn't change.

>>18995255
Yes, clearly she was entirely honest there.

>>18995269
How is it acting, when you're citing that her "outrage" was her acting? I won't deny she did play some parts in their exchanges in SSiB, especially after she was tied up, but there's no indication, statement, or suggestion that she wasn't being serious here.

PROBABLY because that fan would SERIOUSLY fuck her and everything else up, and a prank isn't worth that. Once she got that out of the way, she resumed being silly gaphag.

>>18995231
>>>Gensokyo wouldn't be able to process Suikas power speaks volumes
>Can you give me a source on that, I legitimately don't remember that.

>>18995294
Does that look like anger to you? >>18995255
I know Aki Eda is a bad artist, but that doesn't excuse you confusing the context. Literally the page before is this one

Do you know what "context" is?

>>18995296
Different anon, I didn't say she was outraged. She's obviously acting, and knows that moonbitch isn't going to atomize shit with that fan.

>>18995314
It doesn't look like outrage to me, no. It's been a long time since I last read SSiB so I confused some things. The pic you gave do look a lot like anger though, which is what I meant. Sorry for being unclear.

>>18995350
I don't think you can interpret that as acting, and she doesn't KNOW Toyohime so it's not as if she can know how Toyohime will act. Most moon faggots are indeed that fucking casually dismissive of other life, and would indeed wipe out an entire civilization because they had the nerve to dirty their feet. Yukari has a lot of experience with that, actually, and outside of SSiB has very passionately decried the heavens above Gensokyo for this behavior.

Lunarians mostly don't fuck around. Toyohime, Sagume, and Yorihime are all weird, LESS highly bigoted and dangerous mooncunts.

>touhou powerlevels
please, it's even more retarded than Marvel power levels, almost all of then can either destroy the world, remove destiny or reality
you should just discuss about a relevant point: which touhou is the cutest

>>18995190
Actually, you can find explanations for pretty much all of these (Gensokyo's possible need of change in case of the Occult Balls, teaching youkai not to be reckless, etc), so they're not a proof of mental instability.
>>18995255
You must be quite the psychic, being able to tell exactly what badly drawn characters are experiencing or thinking.

>>18995377
The answer is obviously your favorite one.

>>18995381
What she's saying helps, ya dip.

I think there's a lot of proof of mental instability, or at least the desire to present a mentally unstable image, when it comes to Yukari. Her being absurd, risky, and dangerous all serve her overwhelming presence as a youkai. Nobody's SURE about almost anything she does, and stuff like what you said are only speculations because fuck it, who knows?

Hecatia is the strongest touhou and that's canon you retards

>>18995377
I can answer both questions at once.

>>18995396
Hecatia allegedly being the strongest is actually one of the reasons why I think Yukari might be the actual strongest. In SCoOW ZUN said that Hecatia is stronger than anyone in Gensokyo or the moon. However, Yukari is from the outside world so that doesn't actually include her. He also said that Hecatia is so overpowered that her battle with the protagonists can't even be called a fight. But for Yukari he said in the next volume of SCoOW that Yukari is so overpowered that if she used her full strength that there wouldn't even be a story.

>>18995370
>>18995255
And this is why you are a silly foolish human shitposter, and Yukari is a mighty youkai sage. Why would Yukari need to worry about her atomising the forest her precious sagemom is hiding in, let alone Gensokyo?

>>18995389
Sounds like an obvious lie Toyohime swallowed because she was blinded by her arrogance, which she regretted in the end. I wouldn't trust it any more than I'd trust most of the pre- and post-battle banters in the games, to be honest.

>>18995426
I interpret that as another testament to her admittedly bizarre abilities, which of course could cause no story since she could separate reality or something if she wanted to. I don't think Yukari can be considered an outsider either. She's a resident of Gensokyo and is "in" Gensokyo so, yeah. Too many wouldn't be considered Gensokyans under that line of thought, considering it's a damned nature reserve.

>>18995445
Why would Yukari even know Eirin is precious to her? As far as she'd know, Eirin is a wanted fucking fugitive, and I'm not even sure Yukari knows that either, at least not at the time.

>>18995453
Why does the only time Yukari has ever been perfectly serious and bowed her head seem like a lie, rather than the time she's lying literally MINUTES after this and provoking Toyohime openly?

Why can't you accept it as one of the few times she recognizes that now isn't the time for jokes, and at the very least she should take a precaution here because >>18995370
>Most moon faggots are indeed that fucking casually dismissive of other life, and would indeed wipe out an entire civilization because they had the nerve to dirty their feet. Yukari has a lot of experience with that, actually, and outside of SSiB has very passionately decried the heavens above Gensokyo for this behavior.
>
>Lunarians mostly don't fuck around. Toyohime, Sagume, and Yorihime are all weird, LESS highly bigoted and dangerous mooncunts.

>>18995455
>why would she know
True, I don't know. Not only haven't read it in ages, but I'm not sure of how widespread Yukari information gathering is, you'd think she'd be able to spy on the eientei day and night with her powers. Also moonsage would survive since she's immortal, but you'd think she'd try and avoid killing her anyway, not sure if moonbitches even know where eientei's supposed to be, though.

>>18995489
Eirin is stupidly secretive. If she wants something unknown, then it is. For instance: herself and all of Eientei had been secreted away in Gensokyo without Yukari's knowing for a veeeeery long time. Yukari's prank in SSiB is part of the gaphag's intended welcome party for the mooncunts, since she considers the events post IN to be their genuine arrival to earth and Gensokyo. She knows Eirin is from the moon, so she really laughs it up when she gifts Eirin moon sake.

>>18995507
well I mean, yukari could have some gap-eyes watching eirin write her letter, for instance, that's what I meant

>>18995545
While this is possible, given Eirin's wariness, and that any other instance of Yukari's spying was seen in SSiB, I think it's barely probable. Eientei is her fortress, after all. If she thought eyes were on her she would probably not act. This woman is extremely careful and extremely old. This is why Yukari went to great lengths to fuck with her.

>>18995556
Why would the gappy let her think eyes are on her? As long as eyes are popping up watching from unseen places nobody's going to be the wiser

>>18995612
The way Eientei works, AFAIK, is that anything unusual happening to it is immediately noticed. It used to be even more absurd because essentially time had stopped in the place, but I'm pretty sure Kaguya would notice the opening of a gap, or a strange crow, in the estate. Pretty sure. Yukari also has given no indication that she knows particularly much about Eirin beyond the fact that she's been here a while

>>18995017
>he said in the next volume of SCoOW that Yukari is so overpowered that if she used her full strength that there wouldn't even be a story.
No he didn't, read it again.
>It's a far-too-powerful ability that can, logically speaking, affect anything. Naturally, if she put this ability to its full use it wouldn't even be a game, so for the purposes of the narrative she fights within the spellcard rules. Then again, it seems she was involved in the creation of these rules in the first place, so...
It says nothing about her powerlevel. ZUN previously stated that he's using Yukari mainly for meta narrative purposes. I know you powerwankers are using word "meta" mainly for powerlevel shit-flinging but it has different meanings you know.

>>18995426
>he said in the next volume of SCoOW that Yukari is so overpowered that if she used her full strength that there wouldn't even be a story.
No he didn't, read it again.
>It's a far-too-powerful ability that can, logically speaking, affect anything. Naturally, if she put this ability to its full use it wouldn't even be a game, so for the purposes of the narrative she fights within the spellcard rules. Then again, it seems she was involved in the creation of these rules in the first place, so...
It says nothing about her powerlevel. ZUN previously stated that he's using Yukari mainly for meta narrative purposes. I know you powerwankers are using word "meta" mainly for powerlevel shit-flinging but it has different meanings you know.

>>18995750
>for the purposes of the narrative she fights within the spellcard rules
In other words if she didn't adhere to them her powers would break the story.

even a fun thread joking about cirno can turn into a powerlevel thread thanks to /jp/ autism

>>18995891
Would she? How?

>>18996098
That's just what is written there.
But for example we know that Yukari can manipulate conceptual boundaries like the boundary of truth and lie. What's to say she can't manipulate the border of win and loss? This would make her completely invincible and therefore a good story couldn't be written around her.

>>18996193
Is it? Read it again. There is no mention of breaking the story there.
>if she put this ability to its full use it wouldn't even be a game
Game is the keyword here.
>What's to say she can't manipulate the border of win and loss?
Because we know that even Yukari has limits. And the commentary says affect not having a full control. Not to mention it would invoke several "why didn’t Gandalf use eagles to reach Mt. Doom faster" type of questions.
>This would make her completely invincible and therefore a good story couldn't be written around her.
Oh my.

>>18996193
>Believing the youkai propaganda machine
Anon....

>>18996316
>no mention of breaking the story
There is though:
>for the purpose of the narrative
Narrative means story if you don't know.
>we know that even Yukari has limits
>affect not having a full control
We don't know where exactly those limits are though. That's the whole problem isn't it?
>it would invoke several "why didn’t Gandalf use eagles to reach Mt. Doom faster" type of questions
Because she prefers playing chessmaster rather than using brute force.

>>18996437
>for the purpose of the narrative
Looks like you forgot to add another keyword here. I said meta narrative.

>>18996505
Can you show me where ZUN mentioned that part about meta narrative? I might have missed it.

I don't really think Yukari has meta manipulation abilities in the same way Umineko characters do, but there was one time it was mentioned that she might be able to do it, in PMISS:
>It's said that this ability is not limited to physical space, but also applies to pictures, others' dreams, and even stories.

>>18996641
>I might have missed it.
You missed that? How? It's in the same article you're quoting all the time. Truly a diligent reader. And no I just like posting Lambda.

>>18996694
Huh, I see it now. No idea how I missed that.

And you should probably stop posting Lambda like that, avatar posting is generally frowned upon. Atleast post her in pictures that don't look like reaction images.

>>18996714

This thread is outfuckingstanding.

>>18995377
who are you quoting?

>>18996846
A single post and the entire thread goes to shit.
Cirno is indeed, the strongest.

No.

>>18995463
I'm sure anything said with a straight face must be truth. You fell for it just like Toyohime.

>>18988325

>>19001299
You're being an idiot.

>>18990228
Good fairy!

>>18996846
Our vigilance is eternal

>>19003237
at least he's not a gullible idiot, like you

>>18995011
>erasing and rewriting
>Keine doesn't simply create illusions like Reisen does, she hides or rewrites history.
>she hides or rewrites history.
>hides or rewrites history.
>hides or rewrites
>erasing and rewriting

Not him, but damn. You are one stupid motherfucker

>>18996846
Thank you
>>19007898
Wheres the Shitpost override button?

>>19009326
Except the point I'm making is that when Yukari is fooling it's blatant. In the next chapter, in fact, she's very obvious about it. I've given reason to believe she was serious, nobody's given reason she wasn't. If you think she's so much of a fucking idiot that she WOULDN'T fear completely being wiped out you are fucking stupid, because again, Lunarians mostly are completely serious about their threats.

>>19010413
yukari has you fooled dumbo, don't make me say it again

>>18987274
look OP your thread became a power level autistic screeching thread
it's over

>>18995017
>spellcard rules
lets NOT talk about two creators, yukari and reimu lost to moonbitches at first fight
yukari>reimu>moonbitches

>>18994922
that still does not change the fact that keine cannot change hieda clan history,which is stated in pmiss

>>18992559
>>18992572
The two posts that started it all...
Haha

What happened to this thread

>>19017583
Cirno asserted her dominance, pissed off a faggot and made him argue with another fag over Yukari.

Cirno is strongest. There are no if, ands, buts, or whys ya delusional posters.
Cirno STRONGEST!
Cirno>Reimu=Marisa>Yukari!