/jp/ - Otaku Culture

is knowledge of 3000 kanji above-average considering an average Japanese person? I guess that's about minimum that they know?

Going in with a どうでもいい長文 to set the tone for the thread right.


>>18513515
I just don't think it is worth exploring in the context of having a fun metric. The more you narrow it down and complicate it, the more it turns into something else. Because my own self-assessment is already on shaky ground, and I performed it specifically because of how easy it was to make, and to compare with others--to have a discussion about Anki--it is easier for me to let go of attempts to make it more certain altogether. I mean, I wanted to be helpful and interesting about Anki (wanted to, anyway), and easy to engage, that was it really.

>What can you say about someone who can read number 1 or 2 without looking them up, but not number 3?
It is possible to say that per my definition, he "knows" the kanji 嘶 as part of some differently pronounced word that he either does not connect to いななく, or knows that he cannot assume the reading here to be いななく.

>What about someone who can read number 2 without looking it up, but feels the need to take out a dictionary for 1 or 3?
This person is of course dependent on the kanji, and may not be familiar with the word at all. It can be said that he "knows" it, in exactly the same way as above, that is, not as いななく.

Indeed, the problems with it are easy to pinpoint. But that's just what I intended it to be.

I am very sleepy right now, so I may have committed grave logical errors. Please be kind.

>>18513546
So that's what it was called! I think those are fun.

I think using sentences like AJATT isn't all bad. I've been frustrated with an excessive amount of onomatopoesia and kana words that are just frustrating to review and remember devoid of any context. Sentence cards will probably also help keeping certain grammar structures in place. I'll probably try using a mixture of word and sentence depending on where it makes more sense in the future. Don't see the point of word cards for onomatopoesia for example, as that is just needless frustration without any real benefit. People do seem to have gotten to a relatively high level of proficiency from sentence cards so I'm guessing that's an alright approach.

>>18513945
congratulations on realising DJT method is shit in 2018

next you may be interested in studying kanji with RTK

>>18513945
I used to have trouble with onomatopoeia in Anki, especially the ones in Core, but reading a lot and mining them (especially from anime) made them easy. When I see ぼさぼさ on the front of my card I immediately recall the scene in Shoujo Shuumatsu Ryokou I mined it from.

>>18513991
I can't even tell what is or isn't a shitpost in this thread anymore

>>18513826
Digital manga has shit quality sometimes, so the smaller signs can sometimes be barely intelligible...

Thanks, at the very least all of that makes sense!

>>18513891
You're right ofc, as a fun metric you can't fault it, but you can see why people get up in arms about how anki is not Japanese

>he "knows" the kanji 嘶 as part of some differently pronounced word that he either does not connect to いななく
I guess, I was more getting at the furigana though, saying the person knows the word いななく but has never seen, or has forgotten 嘶 (understandable)

In this case the rare kanji 嘶 contributes little to their concept of the language

And for the second one, yeah, I was getting at the idea that the person doesn't initially know いななく but is able to read the word due to furigana, and guess the meaning due to the kanji (mouth radical, or if not for this particular example it could be from another, onyomi word)

"養"

This Kanji can go fuck itself.

top 3 errors students of Japanese make:
1. outputting when you aren't good enough at input
2. wasting time on details in which you could've learnt over9000 things and could easily get back to the hard part in the future
3. using methods that didn't yield at least one successful person who reached fluency using them
4. regularly posting in these threads

>>18514059
霧

>>18514059
栄養（えいよう）
養（やしな）う

congratulations, now you know all you need to know about 養

>>18514078
霞

>>18514059
it's literally
>sheep
+
>food
you can picture this as
>fostering sheep you give it food

Bet you're doing core deck, huh?

>>18514077
>3. using methods that didn't yield at least one successful person who reached fluency using them
Hmm, yeah, for example?
How would you verify that anyway?

>>18514094
>良
>food
what?

>>18514104
食

>>18514094
>良
>food
Holy fuck I hate everyone in this goddamned thread. You're all a bunch of morons talking out of your asses and arrogant about it too.

>>18514088
I've seen 養子 / 養女 used as well.

>>18514096
By seeing and hearing output of such an individual? I'm using a method that at least 3 people have reached fluency with. I ain't fucking with that DJT stuff that someone arbitrarily composed and there's no-one who could prove it works.

>>18514104
the "roof" directly beneath the horizontal bottom line of sheep makes up the "umbrella" in food

>>18514078
That one I don't mind.
>>18514088
養子
養成
Thanks though.
>>18514094
I just hate writing it.
It just makes my hand do weird things.

its in my homework

>>18514104
shh let him feel above all

>>18514123
Damn man you should have divided those posts. Now everyone knows you're an idiot.

>>18514117
>>18514127
look her before you get any more exasperated friend >>18514123

>>18514118
>>18514124
for those you just remember it's read よう from 栄養 and that the meaning is やしなう and figure it out from there

input gives you the bricks, you build the house

>>18514031
Yeah, mine are a bit too theoretical for that kanji because I tried to unite both under "knowing" the kanji as I defined it, just to purposefully attack my own concept.

Those Ankidrones had better start reading!

>>18514129
>>18514123
>the "roof" directly beneath the horizontal bottom line of sheep makes up the "umbrella" in food
Dividing kanji however you arbitrarily feel like isn't really a good way to go though. You're just changing the radicals because it suits you.

>>18514123
So what method are you using?

>>18514166
The best one

>>18514104
>>18514117
I don't expect you guys to be badass enough to admit you were wrong.

>>18514176
wtf i love ajatt now

>>18513854
>do your reps

but anons are telling me i can just jump right into reading after learning kana and skimming a grammar book? why would anyone spend hours each day grinding anki?

>>18514159
>isn't really a good way to go though. You're just changing the radicals because it suits you.
why isn't it a good way?

>>18514176
That's not a radical though.

>>18514214
are you trying to learn Japanese or to be the master of semantics and not reading between the lines for your own benefit?

>>18514194
>hours
m8 more like 10-15 mins a day if you 20 cards a day in the very beggining. Even then when goings get rough just lower the amount of new cards until you feel comfortable

>>18514166
modified AJATT

no core deck

プップッ
あら、失礼。屁をこきました
あなた、それはとても香ばしい。シーハー
そう。とても香ばしいよ。素敵。

>>18514159
That's not arbitrary, that's literally what the kanji is.

>>18514233
How is that different from the DJT method?

>all these Japanese pro in this thread

>>18514254
Welcome to the shitflinging asswipe general.

>>18514254
they've called me an idiot and started crying crocodille tears and in the end I was right

a bit of hublesness would do these str8-outta-leddit types good, but life will BTFO them enough the moment they'll realise they'll never learn Japanese at any functional level

The DJT method is basically the Steve method with lolis and autism. Lots of compelling content and interesting input. It definitely works.

>>18514254
>Parts: 并
Ok.

>>18514270
Jisho isn't a good source for that anyway. Doesn't make you right at all.

>>18514214
Radicals are just a way to order characters. Chinese characters were not constructed with the modern notion of radicals in mind and they were later simplified many times, again without the modern notion of radicals in mind. The notion comes from much much later analysis for ordering and does not purport to describe or dictate all the parts that make up the characters.

>>18514278
you aren't a good source either, shitter
you can't even speak Japanese and you're talking

>>18514278
>>18514275
Look it up yourself you fucking bottom feeders.

>>18514287
Sources in English don't count, you would need to look it up in a real Japanese only kanji dictionary.

>>18514287
So how is that Japanese learning going for you?
Due to finish RTK in the next few months?

state of this thread

>>18514295
How many more times do you want to get BTFO today?

>>18514315
Careful, you'll get on the mod's bad side if you dare insult the intelligence of anyone in this thread. Everyone here is off limits for banter, I got banned for calling out idiots before.

>>18514333
that's alright, less posting here is definitely beneficial

my last post

should i start tobira or an integrated approach to intermediate japanese? i just finished genki 2 but i'm capable of reading ez manga by myself like sailor moon or dragon ball

Any idea how White Album 2 is for a beginner? I looked through the archive and all I found was that the vocab isn't much different from normal, just that the sentences are a bit more complex than the typical moege

>>18514456
kamige are wasted on beginners, read something worse for that first VN that you will butcher with slow reading and misunderstandings.

>>18513868
better eigo and nihongo than sure no minna san daroune lol

>>18514474
why would reading it second make it any better than the first? wouldn't that logic it be better to just play things you don't care about until you're at like 5+?

>>18514348
>nobody will know that I was one of the guys bashing him, then when I realized my mistake I turned around to support him

>>18514481
There's a big improvement between the first and second, but yes, the longer you wait the more enjoyable it will be.

>>18514481
>just play things you don't care about until you're at like 5+?
That sounds like a great way to burn out

>>18514456
>>18514474
its not that kamigay are wasted on people who cant even really read them because you can just challenge them again later when you level up your nihongo no chikara but really it will just be painful and slow and not fulfilling because youre just gonna be reinforcing the idea that reading is miserable when really its fun and easy with only some new words instead of kaidoku hukanouna sentences and passages if you choose material suitable for your current dokusho level lol

>>18514526
>>18514535
Ok, so, do i HAVE to play moege then, or are there some plotge that wouldnt be bad for a first read? I dont mind reading something else first but if its gonna be for 3+ months like ive heard most vn's take at first, id rather it be plot-based

Grabbed the recently re-released 世界でいちばんNG（だめ）な恋 earlier due to it being on easier visual novel lists.

Tried firing it up but ITHVNR only picks up maybe ~30% of each line regardless of what thread is selected.
It seems the old version needed a h-code (?), and as far as I can tell the lists of those have been taken down / no longer being updated. The codes for the old game don't make a difference with the new one.

Does that mean it'll be unhookable for the foreseeable future?

Not very experienced with hooking/visual novels and this is the first game I've come across where it doesn't work. Just not sure if I'm overlooking something.

>>18514546
i honestly dont recommend anything made for adults for someone with an objectively infantile reading level
you might be able to slog through the googoos and gagas of moe baby talk between shitty sex scenes but anything beyond that youre just as fucked as if you were trying to read and comprehend the intricacies of a white album2

>>18514535
reading can be slow and a little painful, but still fulfilling, imo
if there's a plot or something keeping you going through something a little harder, then it can be a more enriching experience than just reading moege or yotsuba or w.e

i chose a short LN series for my first serious departure into wild japanese and it was somewhat slow but a pretty good time

>>18514546
Manga is your friend early on because it's more fun and fast paced than a VN. I found slowly reading through moeshit dialogue at a low level to be excruciatingly dull. Manga is still a struggle at first but at least if you don't understand shit 100% you can just look at the pictures.... The most important thing is to keep whatever you are doing fun and interesting, that will keep you motivated

>>18514564
>Does that mean it'll be unhookable for the foreseeable future?
If your computer can display it, is has to be in memory somewhere
https://mx-futhark.github.io/hook-any-text/

>>18514566
>>18514591
Guess i'll try to find a moege that doesn't look boring as fuck
If that fails then i'll go to a manga or LN like you said
Speaking of which, is there an LN recommendation chart? All i saw were VN ones on the CoR

>>18514564
if you dont learn how to find the game genie code yourself (and then of course dont share it because if you do it just leads to enabling people to be even lazier and half hearted) then yes it is "unreadable"

>>18514581
yeah i mean i definitely am not trying to tell anyone to not do something they really wanna do but otherwise if youre just floating there in the ether of cyberspace make life a little easier on yourself and check out some 絵本s and then some 本ｓ that have a few less 絵s and then maybe youll be strong enough to face your first real manga opponent in a doraemon or a chis sweet home lol

>>18514615
Just browse through the LNs on netifly and pick something you think you would enjoy

>>18514615
my recommendation chart says you should read イリヤの空、UFOの夏

>>18514615
my recommendation chart says you should read
youtu.be/RhLMfvVO0Cs

>>18514681
this is actually pretty solid material
I'll 載せる it on my recommendation chart too

>>18514700
i like that you said solid material i see you dude

Read To Love Ru. It's easy and makes your penis the big penis.

>>18514660
>NDS, no text hooking
>small as fuck screen, hard to read
>vertical text
Why would you do this to a beginner?

>>18514731
he was prolly talking about the light novella which i guess still qualifies to be asked your question but i dont hate it so much because at least its from a simpler time when people were still rippin off saikano lol

>>18514731
he asked for LNs, I meant the 原作 not the video game

it's in the cor in azw3, but I was stupid and just read the jpegs on my phone and even then it was ok

>>18514725
If you wanted to make the big penis why not just read nukige where theres actual sex

>>18514795
>jacking off to sex

>>18514315
Keep your /int/ memes on /int/.

>>18514725
>>18514795
Read ecchi or hentai stuff
My chinchin becomes all bokki bokki
Start fapping
Start skipping unknown dialogue and vocab to get to more ecchi parts
Spend about 20-30 minutes fapping and 5 cleaning up
Take a nap
Get no studying done.

I just don't believe people who say they learned Japanese through porn

>>18514815
i may not have learned japanese through porn but at least i learned cool words like 青姦 and 潤滑油 through porn

>>18514815
Learn how to edge and reap great rewards.

>>18514815
why clean up when you can lay on your back hang your legs over your head and shoot directly into your mouth while still doing your flashcards on your tablet or other handheld with your free hand

>>18514815
How else would you learn essential vocabulary like 孕む 肉便器 子宮 膣 恥垢 among countless others?

AJATT works.

>>18514815
This exact thing happens to me when i read a VN
I get to a point where you can tell an h-scene is coming, and i just start rushing, eventually skipping over stuff

For someone who's read Aokana, is there some kind of cultural joke I'm not getting here? OB? ゴルフ？

>>18514870
no its not a cultural reference you just cant read
see ゴルフ

>>18514878
My bad. I should've looked up golf terminology instead of assuming there was no way that could be related to flying.

>>18514870
How is Aokana? The art seems good

>>18514895
it's good

>>18514895
for someone that hates fluffy moe trash i picked it up for other reasons and ultimately thought it was ok

>>18514894
keep on flyin cause if youre not flyin then youre dyin

>>18514895
It's my first VN and I've been reading for about an hour every night for a while and mined a shit ton of words. If you want to get an idea for the sort of vocab you'll encounter, it's a little embarrassing for me but here's a pastebin of what I mined so far: https://pastebin.com/6pqfD5sp

Story-wise I'm barely in so I can't say much, but I hear the battle scenes later on are really good. I've read ahead without bothering to look up words a little and the first air battle scene was pretty cool. Aside from that it's kinda generic so far, I'm mostly being driven by the feeling of accomplishment of reading a VN in Japanese for the first time.

>>18514934
how can you call something generic when you actually cant read
it could be witty and insightful and downright entertaining as a text and much like the flying girls it all just whoosh whooshes by you

>>18514850
don't forget 恥丘 my favorite homonym for 地球

>tfw read the first chapter of yotsuba today
Is this is? did I officially start learning japanese today?

>>18514949
Because I'm only at the beginning so far and the characters haven't had time to develop because of my snail-like reading pace? Aside from what I asked earlier in this thread and the クナシマ縦断みさきクイズ bit in the last thread, I think I understood the text so far sufficiently. I laugh at みさき's antics, find 明日香's antics cute as fuck, and thought the MC's hurr durr i dont wanna fly trauma pretty interesting. There were even a lot of lines that I would've brushed off if I read through them normally in English, but because I had to slow down, I found them endearing and cute.

Doesn't mean it's become anything more than a generic moefest yet. The fight scene I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't even be getting to it properly until maybe tomorrow or the day after. I'm only at the beginning of the scene where some chick called サトウイン appears.

>>18514995
Yes
Congrats

>>18514934
>but here's a pastebin of what I mined so far: https://pastebin.com/6pqfD5sp
Do you read a few sentences a day? I was mining more than 50 words every day before like 15k mark.

>>18515010
the mc is actually the most interesting character in the game imo which is why it was hilarious when they completely removed him as a character from the anime
its okay though no matter how hard you try youll miss the few homeruns aokana does hit on your current readthrough but you can always go back to it later and have a better go of it on the second goaround (i just checked your pastebin and saw you were two weeks irl time in holy shit i hope you make it through your first goaround let alone a second somewhere in the future)
we live in an age now where content is use once and throw away but ill tell you that if you revisit some things youll be rewarded

dont get me wrong i dont think aokana warrants two readthroughs by someone who can read okay but it does probably deserve one competent readthrough

>>18515025
Thanks
Feels good to finally start my journey

>>18515069
i tell you in complete earnestness and for the sake of your journey please vacate the thread immediately

Could I just use に instead of ヘ?

>>18515101
It depends.

>>18515101
absolutely just try it out

>>18515057
I was already doing an Anki deck for a while so I wasn't looking up every other word(felt like I was though sometimes), and I manually look up kanji I don't know instead of using a hooker, so even though I spend about an hour(sometimes less) a day, I read pretty slowly. And I guess I'm retarded.
>>18515059
I avoided the anime since I don't trust anime adaptations by default. Glad to hear it though, I'll がんばるます.

>>18515101
why might you be trying to "use" either?

make your motives clear, we don't deal with hypotheticals in these threads

>>18515121
its either ill がんばる or just がんばります

>>18515121
>instead of using a hooker
But...why? By the way, no new words for me, feels good.

i didnt even read the part about looking up all kanji manually instead of using a hooker that does nothing more than feed you more information you dont know faster so you can continue not knowing lots of things
i like you dude keep goin like youre goin and youll actually learn some shit

>>18515165
すみません。ミスしちゃいました。
>>18515178
I haven't tried a hooker with a VN before, but I've tried mining words from online texts, which offers more or less the same level of convenience, and I feel my retention falls down when I do that.

>>18515218
上等なポスト、マブダチ。

>>18515218
You can also use paper dictionary and make cardboard flashcards.

>>18515218
Eventually that's fine, but at a low level where you have to look up tons of words that's gonna take forever and burn you out.

is there an anime or video game or such with a cute female lead who speaks 博多弁

I don't think I can learn any more japanese until a cute dialect bursts forth from the yamato and blesses my brain so that I may continue

>>18515325
http://hakatatonkotsu-anime.com/
これ知ってます？

>>18515314
>Eventually that's fine
Yes, when there are no kanjis you don't know. I just type readings of unknown words and it already takes significantly more time than if I would just copy a word from hooker window. Searching a lot of kanjis by radicals or drawing them is retarded.

>>18515242
上等のポストで上手な手紙を送ることができますね！！ ホモダチよお！

>>18515312
i mean i absolutely advocate all of that

>>18515314
>>18515345
kids these days

>>18514176
REALLY MADE ME THINK!

>>18514317
DJT rats got fucking blasted HUEHUEHUE

>>18515325
wait till you actually learn japanese and go back and hear what shes really saying

>>18515314
I did pretty much what he's doing, not specifically with aokana but I never burned out. You manually look shit up and it means you're probably lending some thought to it, so chances are it's going to stick.
Hell I barely ever made anki flashcards, and at this point don't even use anki anymore. It's been a year or two and I can read nearly every single word in that aokana mining deck.

You're reading and looking shit up for the purpose of improving reading skill, anyway, so if you wanted to learn the rest of the language you'd go peruse compelling audio content and stop giving two shits about text parsing

>>18515345
Drawing kanji is pretty fast. >>18515218 has got a good point about hookers encouraging you to ignore the actual thinking process that teaches you language

Not like you can't fuck a hooker and still use your brain, but it's not exactly productive

>>18515345
It's not that hard to search by drawing if you know a bit about how to write them. A lot of times the kanji you want pops up before you even finish writing it if you write it well. Pic related, I was looking up the　繊 in 繊細. The part that's 糸 is in like, literally half of all kanji so disregardng that, with just three lines I found the one I wanted. Worst comes to worst, SKIP code searching exists. The searching process isn't very intuitive, but it makes you imagine how the stroke order goes, which I think helps me remember as well.

I can't recommend it unless you've built up a bit of a foundation beforehand, but it's not as tedious as it sounds.

Although as expected, even paper dictionaries and flashcards are a little too much for me at this point. I might consider buying a physical copy of Kenkyusha's J-E dict though, the EPWING version is really nice.

>>18515399
are you talking about this pink haired girl, because I am well acquainted with her and also with japanese thanks

>>18515444
shut the fuck up and go back to /a/ rat

>>18515444
yes her the one with the pink
in that case cool dude jintais pretty neat and fun huh lol

>>18515444
ナイストリップ私

>>18515325
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/t/a/方言キャラクターの一覧

>>18515470
それやめてよ

>>18515434
>about hookers encouraging you to ignore the actual thinking process that teaches you language
Don't you by any chance confuse hookers with parsers or some sort? Because all it does is just displays a text in a window (or your browser) so you can copy it in a dictionary or do whatever you want with it. Because I have no idea how it "encourages to ignore thinking process".

>>18515363
>上等のポストで上手な手紙を送ることができますね！！ ホモダチよお！

Translate it, weebs.

>>18515500
The pleasure of being cummed inside.

Why do I keep getting チ テ ケ and シ ツ mixed up even though I've known hiragana and all the other katakana for a year and a half?

>>18515457
jinrui etc. is a light novel series originally written in japanese which i am perusing to teach myself the language, fellow capybara
the reason I'm looking for specifically audio sources, like anime, for a dialect is pretty obvious

>>18515463
yeah

>>18515475
I was more asking if anyone just knew one off the top of their head with a lot of ばってん and と and けん and such since lists like that don't really say much about how often the character appears, or how strong their dialect is

>>18515540
>I was more asking if anyone just knew one off the top of their head with a lot of ばってん and と and けん and such since lists like that don't really say much about how often the character appears, or how strong their dialect is
You're a fucking idiot.

>>18515528
why do some people get shit on their balls when they wipe even though theyve been pooping their entire literal lives

>>18515490
Maybe my wording was too strong, but even something like that makes it a hell of a lot easier to ignore the shapes and go straight from J→E which you should really be avoiding

>>18515573
dont do it dude you cant win dont even make eye contact
actually you wouldnt have to worry about that lol (自閉症ジョーク)

https://deepmind.com/blog/wavenet-launches-google-assistant/

Text to speech is actually getting good, time to stop putting random recordings on flash cards.

>>18515573
>but even something like that makes it a hell of a lot easier to ignore the shapes and go straight from J→E which you should really be avoiding
I don't understand what you're trying to say. You're not expected to learn much from just from reading as a beginner. If you're gonna learn words and grammar patters after anyway then you just make your reading experience painfull for not apparent reason.

I saw that Singapore anon his N1 certificate in the last thread, have any American anons gotten their JLPT certificate yet?

せかいのあいことばは？

>>18515782
How do I get it on my flashcards then?

>>18515949
I mean that you don't know if they're recordings or text to speech.

Greetings /jp/ djt.
You're all obviously aware of some of these terms and onomatopoeias unique to the japanese language; Im trying to recall a japanese term that loosely translates to "prideful shame".

I think that is the closest description, although I'm not looking for a translation- but the actual japanese term, so allow me to try and explain a bit better. Im not referring to taking honour in dishonour or seppuku, instead I believe its more of a fetish term referring to being stimulated by degenerate or disgraceful acts that would ordinarily bring shame in their culture.

I'm drawing a blank and am not fluent in Japanese, so any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

>>18515969
You also mentioned flashcards.
Or does this actually have nothing to do with flaschards?
Why did you post it into the Daily Japanese Thread then if it has no bearing on learning Japanese?

>>18515994
There are several people here who put untrusted recordings of Japanese words pronounced by natives on flashcards.

what the FUCK

>>18516005
So where is the alternative?

>>18516018
Using sources that you can confirm are pronounced by real people rather than random packs of voice samples you find in dictionaries.

>>18516022
Sounds good. Where do I get them?

>>18515801
>You're not expected to learn much from just from reading as a beginner.
Who is expecting who to do what exactly?
If you're talking to me I sure as hell expect everyone to learn from reading

>I don't understand what you're trying to say
I'm saying text hooking enables ignoring the appearance of words and you shouldn't ignore the appearance of words or you won't learn how to read

>でも彼女も覚悟の上だろう
How do they get that meaning?
I saw another translation where it was "she knew what she is getting into prior to coming here"

I fucking hate words with 上 and their 1000 meanings, I thought it might mean that she is just overly resolute but no I failed again.
Dekinai forever.

Also what kind of も is that?

>>18516049
You just need a little discipline to read the sentence without the hooker first, it's not a terribly hard concept to grasp

>>18516053
It's the も kind of も
as in "also"

you really need to throw away what you know about english and just build up terms like 上 as new concepts in your head unrelated to shit like "up" or "above"

it's not a word with different meanings like "bat" can mean the animal or a baseball bat, it's a single concept with lots of applications, like the verb "to take" someone posted in the last thread

same goes for も actually

>>18516082
no it's not, and yet look who is having trouble grasping it

>>18515976
>I'm drawing a blank and am not fluent in Japanese, so any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Read the guide.

>>18516104
>yet look who is having trouble grasping it
The person you were arguing with? I was just jumping in because I have let myself get lazy with a text hooker before and had to focus better to listen and read rather than jump right to an English definition, even when I do hover over at first I only check the gana reading and see if I know the word

>>18515976
i think the japanese term you are looking for is "M"

>>18516133
i guess that was a loosely directed shitfling at everybody in the thread who unwittingly does what you used to do

>>18515818
This thread learns how to read and listen, not pass tests to put on a resume. Try /int/, if its up.

>>18516147
Well why do you care about other people's bad habit? It'll only harm them in the long run

>>18516053
the 上 just means the 覚悟 was at the forefront [of her mind] because of the context of the situation meaning that it was known bad times were ahead [yet..] (それは決まってんだろ)

theres alot of this stuff thats gonna come up in your life where you gotta stop trying to english but the good news is youll start to see concepts as being relative to others you already know and reign it all in good luck

>>18516164
live footage of said learning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av4lbel9aIo

Wait so is using a text hooker good for learning since it streamlines the process, or bad because it means you spend less time per word?

>>18516262
bad because of what you said and also it doesn't streamline shit

>>18516262
things can be good for some people and bad for others
my advice is to try 一切合財 and see how it goes variety is the spice of life

i personally like the boys that flip through the paperback dictionary and dont go for the instant gratification shortcuts that arent really shortcuts in the end

>>18516274
>>18516297
Just to clarify, i mean hookers like ITH that just rip the raw text and then using something like rikai or yomi, not anything lije chiitrans that just does everything for you

>>18516314
anything that rips the text so you just copy and paste shit

i really have genuine concern for the boys who just go ugh 読めない and then copy and paste the text and bits and pieces of it basically just tearing everything apart so they can quickly decipher and put it back together haphazardly so they can move on to once again saying ugh 読めない and repeating this process

if that kinda shit works for you great but i honestly doubt it and we probably have different definitions of what "works" is

>>18516262
>>18516314
It's good because it let's you access more difficult content that you otherwise would not be able to, especially early on.

>>18516425
you might be able to copy and paste the words but you have no more or less access to the text just because of that

>>18516425
difficult content isn't "inaccessible" in the first place, it's just hard to understand because you don't know the language

a hooker doesn't make hard content easier to take in or understand as input, it just sets you down a completely unrelated path of english definitions and clumsy grammar explanations that don't fix the problem at hand, which will only be fixed by actually thinking long and hard about what you look at & listen to and seeing more and more examples over a long period of time

taking way less time to do the exact same thing (look up words you don't know) by its very nature does make things more accessible

it doesn't make you able to read through muramasa, but it certainly does increase how much input you can consume in what time. you do not read just to learn words you don't know, you read to learn everything.

>>18516028
https://forvo.com/languages/ja/

>>18516449
>but you have no more or less access to the text
Yes you do.
>>18516451
>a hooker doesn't make hard content easier to take in or understand as input
Yes it does.

>>18516451
>it just sets you down a completely unrelated path of english definitions
I use a J-J dictionary.
>and clumsy grammar explanations
Nobody actually looks up grammar after they stop being a beginner.

>>18516459
grammar lookups have nothing to do with texthookers in the first place, they're just shitposting because they tried reading with a texthooker for a while and got mad and quit

>>18516188
>live footage of said learning
no bully, im doing my best

あめりかにいきたい

ろすかな

>>18516458
no they dont and i provide thee with the evidence: djt
the prosecution rests ur honor

>>18516459
and how do you learn to read a japanese dictionary then lol

>>18516463
i didnt even know about text hooking hentai games till i met djt and i had long since been around the block by then

>>18516491
it's time to stop posting

>>18516491
Cool, so you're shitposting about something you just assumed everything about, cool, cool.

>>18516494
>>18516499
look at em...speechless
またチャレンジしてね

>>18516489
you'll get shot imouto don't do it

>>18516491
>and how do you learn to read a japanese dictionary then lol
By looking up the words in the J-J dictionary in a J-E dictionary.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions, but yes, really, you can learn Japanese while using a texthooker. All it does is make it take less time to look up words. If you actively refuse to ever look up any words when you read, you're wasting a lot of time.

>>18516449
There's really no difference between yomichan and a paper dictionary besides ease of use. Sure you might get a little more exposure to similar terms but at a penalty of time spent away from native content.

>>18516451
English definitions are only bad if you treat them as too important and don't use them as a tool to better understand words in context.

I should probably stop responding seriously to this guy who is obviously shitposting at this point

>>18516513
so in other words copy and paste the words from the japanese dictionary to the japanese>english dictionary?

its like text hooking without the application download

>>18516523
...Do you really think that I read dictionaries for input?

>>18516393
What do you consider more optimal and how do you believe it differs from copying and pasting a word into a dictionary, if you need to look it up anyway? I agree if you're saying you should struggle for a few seconds and actually try to remember if it's a word you've seen before, but assuming that fails? I don't use text hookers by the way, but it doesn't seem inherently different from my more manual lookups except that they're slightly more difficult and that encourages me to try harder first.

>>18516458
>>18516454
your idea of "accessible" and the idea of "accessible" that actually matters in practice are different
in other words you are "access"ing the wrong thing here trying to streamline something that doesn't ultimately matter
you don't change the accessibility of japanese just by having the unicode kanji on your clipboard
this isn't about looking up words, it's about being aware of the kanji and giving it your thought so you learn how to read

>>18516459
i'm 100% sure we are talking in the context of beginners here so wtf are you on about

>>18516515
again this is not about opening a dictionary but about opening your mind to the language of japanese

>>18516515
>English definitions are only bad if you treat them as too important and don't use them as a tool to better understand words in context.
Good to know, all this talk of using J-J makes me feel guilty for using J-E. I really don't spend that much time fussing about the english definition, its just a concept and I let the kanji itself more closely describe what the usage may be.
When doing reps I do often use a link straight to kotobank though

>>18516542
>your idea of "accessible" and the idea of "accessible" that actually matters in practice are different
Apparently not considering that I'm reading things that would be virtually impossible to read without easy dictionary access and having a blast.

>i'm 100% sure we are talking in the context of beginners here
Your idea of "beginner" and the idea of "beginner" that actually matters in practice are different.

>>18516543
There is no point in using a J-J dictionary if doing so would be difficult for you. It's just slightly better once you can do it.

>>18516530
Try my new krashen-backed "massive input" method of reading japanese dictionaries cover to cover. You can start with a smaller one and repeat it a few times when you finish to mix in the black magic of spaced repetition. It combines the best of both worlds: learning to speak like a dictionary, and exposure to tens of thousands of words you don't need to know.

>>18516542
You can spend weeks meditating on the writing of a particular kanji compound and it's meaning, but that's still not going to teach you how to read it

>>18516542
>again this is not about opening a dictionary but about opening your mind to the language of japanese
these are not even close to mutually exclusive and the idea that you think dictionaries are bad for learning japanese indicates that you're probably an ankidrone or a textbook addict

>Apparently not considering that I'm reading things that would be virtually impossible to read without easy dictionary access and having a blast.
dictionary access would be easy text hooker or not, you can take my word since these hands have never grazed a text hooker to date

>>18516551
>Your idea of "beginner" and the idea of "beginner" that actually matters in practice are different.
i used the "beginner" from your post そのまんま so あなたにブーメランですよ

>>18516573
yeah that's why you look it up in a dictionary on the side

and then save it in your 脳 for later because it will come in useful when you see it in a word you're trying to figure out how to read and look up

>>18516574
i can see how you might think lots of things about someone like me, but anki is a no-no and textbooks are a scam

>>18516598
>dictionary access would be easy text hooker or not
Yeah, no.

>>18516598
>i used the "beginner" from your post
Okay, then your idea of beginner is wrong. Intermediate learners still need to access dictionaries.

>all this arguing
man i was just trying to figure out if i should use one or not, not a fucking thesis on the complexities of what a beginner is and what difficult content is

Texthookers literally just rip the text out of the program so that you can copy it.

They don't do any parsing, they don't insert furigana, they don't inject the sentence into machine translators, they don't automatically look up words for you, all they do is make it so that you don't have to recreate the text you want to look up from scratch. When you don't know how something is pronounced, or it's chuuni bullshit, you literally cannot just type it.

>>18516612
It's just one shitposter making things difficult, get used to it because bored people who want to avoid studying come here and shitpost against the common concepts promoted here just to get (you)s and the satisfaction from trolling that they can't get from actually learning Japanese

>>18516622
so you're for texthookers, im guessing?

>>18516605
they don't need to hook text though eh

>>18516627
Depends, do you like ruining your train of thought and wasting a lot of time?

Alright /jp/, I need your help. I'm playing Super Touhou RPG and there's a segment where you have to input musical notes in the correct order (Do Re Mi, Fa, So, La etc). And after collecting all the hints in this level you can talk to Lunasa and have her repeat em to you.

Thing is, I don't know a lick of Japanese, and In order to get past this puzzle, I need to understand what notes she's saying here, can you help a guy out? Here's the dialogue with all of the notes, please excuse the shitty cropping.

>>18516634
The do-re-mi etc. order in Japanese is
i　い　イ
ro　ろ　ロ
ha　は　ハ
ni　に　ニ
ho　ほ　ホ
he　へ　ヘ
to　と　ト
Now leave and don't come back until you start learning Japanese, just to keep the thread clean.

>>18516634
>>18516638
Just actually opened the image, you can figure this out with a katakana chart from Google.

>>18516600
I'm not one of the people discouraging use of a text hooker, but if looking shit up without a text hooker isn't something you would consider "easy", you're doing something wrong. Either you're looking shit up in a really stupid way, or you're looking shit up far too often.

>>18516643
Okay, how do you look up words you don't know how to pronounce?

Heisig is good.

>>18516648
Die, monster.

>>18516626
I'm for whatever gets people into compelling, native content as quickly as possible as that is the real language, not meditating on kanji beneath pine trees while feeling the wind coming down from Fuji-san and imbuing your soul with the essence of ancient Japan. Exposure to terms in context will get you results. I don't even read VNs because they aren't the kind of material I enjoy, I'm more of a manga and LN person and I do use yomichan for reading LNs. It's a useful tool you'd be an idiot to ignore. In most other languages you can jump into reading content very early because it's easy to look shit up in a dictionary, kanji complicates that so I see no reason why you shouldn't use whatever is at your disposal to input as much content as you can.

>>18516646
Search by radical on jisho

>>18516655
That takes forever.

>>18516615
>you literally cannot just type it
we like to have standards here and i like to believe one of them is that the theoretical djt user we apply armchair learning methods to is not disabled and can make use of e.g. a keyboard or a mouse

>>18516633
see above

>>18516646
Google translate handwriting recognition with a mouse, copy the result to a real dictionary, you can do it in two seconds. Pretty sure that's in the guide.

>>18516659
News flash: you can't type Japanese that you don't know how to pronounce.

>>18516660
That takes way longer than two seconds. Do you even do these things? I take it you don't, and you're just repeating things other people have said. Don't talk about things you don't do.

>>18516664
then use your mouse

あめりかって

そんなにうたれるの？

>>18516669
News flash: that takes a long time.

>>18516668
Yes, I do these things, it takes two seconds. Do it more than five times and you'll get fast. Don't talk about things that you don't do.

>>18516658
It takes like 30 seconds to enter a word.

>>18516673
It doesn't take two seconds, so you're lying about something.

>>18516668
Not him, but this is what I do literally every time it comes up, and it actually does take a minimal amount of time.

>>18516672

>>18516675
And it takes like two seconds to mouse over a word with a texthooker.

It took me 10 seconds to write 祭 into Google Translate and copy it into Jisho. And I'm very familiar with 祭.

>>18516679
Maybe it takes four if I have to write a lot of strokes. Maybe you're not being sloppy enough.

>>18516684
I'm not the anti-texthooker guy. Texthookers are fine. Just use radicals or handwriting when you're reading material without digitized text. It's quick once you're used to it.

>>18516689
It really doesn't maybe take four seconds. You do not do the thing you are recommending. I do. I read things that cannot be text hooked. Looking up words with unfamiliar characters takes a good chunk out of a minute, not a couple seconds.

>>18516638
>>18516642
After looking at the chart, I'm having trouble finding out what シ is supposed to be, google says it's Shi, but that's not a musical note I can enter unlike La I'm probably going to get told to fuck off aren't I

>>18516697
I do that. That's how I know how slow it is.

>>18516688
Eight seconds.

>>18516708
18 seconds to draw and copy 構成.

>>18516530
im just wondering where the functional difference is since we started at "text hooking ```~~``~_~WORDS__-~~`` doesnt make the `````TEXT***~~~``````` any more or less accessible" (flavourful emphasis added for great fun >>18516449) to "use japanese dictionary" ( >>18516459) to "use the words in the japanese dictionary for lookup in japanese>english dictionary" (>>18516513)

its really the same thing right

>>18516541
optimal depends on too many things so its probably best to say gaining lots of input that makes stuff change in your brain for the long-term utilizing as many of the human senses as possible
i also realize that manual lookup is "slower" and even though theres lots of intangibles ill say that if the next thing you read after a manual lookup shares no words with what you looked up there is no chance of being in any better of a position to read it
but this is only short term thinking here and everyone is only interested in the best long term practices hopefully
i do agree that the struggling part is helpful because struggles are what define us

>>18516542
充電はしたけど
使ってない電池

>>18516551
congratulations on your instant gratification
when we crack you open we find it vacuous on the inside

>>18516612
i mean maybe you dont know but this is the sad clown pit where everyone tries to eat each other because japango is inedible
if you can take charge of your own learning and are able to measure whether or not you are doing what you are intending to do then you can be responsible enough to decide for yourself is text hookers is a thing you want to be fuckin with

>>18516658
no it doesnt and as a bonus when youve done it enough you basically know how to make all kanji just by seeing them
of course it takes forever when its something you dont do normally

>>18516684
instant gratification doesnt make your muscles strong

>>18516698
theres only so many things to build a kanji house out of

big ass post come and get it

>>18516702
What kind of words are you looking up? Ones with 3 or 4 10+ stroke kanji?

>>18516688
>And I'm very familiar with 祭.
so why did you draw the whole thing meticulously into google 笑 笑

>>18516698
>takes a good chunk out of a minute
i would suggest disabled persons back down and refrain from projecting onto the venerable masses of DJT

>>18516712
>>18516719
https://vocaroo.com/?upload
scan of page 50 of toradora

>>18516712
This post reads like a tkyosam video. Unhinged.

>>18516718
Do you think 10+ stroke kanji are rare or something? Because yes those are the words I have to look up, words with like two 10+ stroke kanji.

>>18516719
You don't know Japanese.

Typing words I don't know is my favorite way to practice reading!

>>18516712
I'm not reading all that, but you're an idiot.

>>18516725
Of course they're not rare, I'm not insinuating they are. It just explains why it takes the better part of a minute to look up a multi-kanji word like that.

Of course some smug anon will tell you that "祭 only takes me 2s to look up btw I use it regularly" but if you're looking up 鬱憤晴らす I can appreciate it taking upwards of a minute.

>>18516744
I did not say "better part of a minute".

Who goes on an anonymous image board to brag about how much better their learning methods are than others, all while having a conversation completely on English with no indication of their actual ability in regards to Japanese? I thought you're supposed to keep this type of retardation to forums. Like do you realize how retarded it is to derive satisfaction from feeling superior to other anonymous people on the internet, some of whom are certainly better than you at Japanese? (There is always someone better)

>>18516746
4chan is a forum.

>>18516746
welcome to 4chan

>>18516752
A typical forum, with power posters who everyone sucks up to and ego inflated mods and all that other typical bullshit

>>18516759
So 4chan.

>>18516745
>>18516698
>Looking up words with unfamiliar characters takes a good chunk out of a minute

>>18516764
Yes. "good chunk out of a minute". That means something different than "better part of a minute".

If I want to more succinctly state that I am a student and my field of study at the same time, like "I'm an engineering student," could I say 工学生です ?

>>18516768
Christ, I forgot how god damn autistic /djt/ was sometimes. If pants-shitters like you have a problem with spending a minute looking up a word, why do you waste several minutes arguing over the dumbest fucking semantics imaginable. Unironically kill yourself.

>>18516781
I don't spend a minute looking up a word.

>>18516761
4chan if everyone had trips and like counts and when the mods ban you they make big ceremonious posts about the good of the community and all other sorts of self righteous bullshit

>>18516781
He wasn't arguing about semantics, you just assumed he said something he didn't say. He kept telling you he didn't say what you said he said, it's not his problem.

>>18516784
So 4chan.

>>18516790

>>18516776
You would actually say 象学生です

>>18516744
When the kanji is faster for me to type than write, I type it. You can use a piece of each. If you remember 鬱 (which is particularly memorable for obvious reasons), then even if you don't know 憤 you only have to draw one kanji.

>>18516793

>>18516794
でも象なんか勉強してねえんだよ

>>18516801
pronounce 工学生 and 象学生 in your head

>>18516806
Yes, they rhyme, do you want an award?

>>18516817
That's not the joke

>>18516794
やるじゃない

Should I look up every word and phrase I don't know while reading?

>>18516824
No, just what you need to understand what people are saying and pronounce it all.

>>18516634
What the fuck is that last note letter supposed to be, "les"?

>>18516820
I guess I'm a 馬鹿

真の勉強方法

youtu.be/kE-OhJlaRHk#t=109

>>18516850
I think it's supposed to be Re, maybe.

>>18516700
They're using シ in place of ti.

Isn't Axanael supposed to be super easy? How bad is it if I'm having a lot of trouble and only half understanding a good portion of the sentences?

>>18517005
It has simple sentence structure but lots of words.

>>18517005
it is super easy but its gotta be cool for the kids so you gotta know whats up or youre fucked

>>18517005
mein bro nothing is easy in japanese until you're good at it

im new to reading and always feel so conflicted when mining word with kanji or without

>>18517055
that's ok because reading and mining arent super related

>>18517055
You shouldn't mine grammatical compounds like this.

>>18517064
Of course you should, or you will keep mixing them up.
Things like いつも、いつか、いつでも、いつだって、いつ, etc can easily go into your vocab mining deck.

>>18517074
No, you won't keep mixing them up.

>>18517075
How are you not going to mix them up if you never bother to learn them?

>>18517077
Mining these won't really help you learn them.

>>18517074
I thought you learn shit like that from watching anime.

if you wanna make flash cards do fuckin whatever! draw dicks and butt holes on them as well so when they come up you know it because its the dick or butt hole card

>>18516982
;-; こんな感じ感じたくない

>>18517090
thanks i saved that image for the front of my 刺青もんもん card which i mined from a screenshot of albratross koukairoku on vndb

>>18517107
fuckin nice dude i love albratoss koukairoku i read it with my dad

>>18517107
What does the もんもん part mean? Even google didn't help me.

So since the thread is a bit more lively, i'll ask this again: do you actually translate h-scenes, or do you just ctrl through them?

>>18517139
I do, and I hate myself for it.

>>18517139
h-scenes are usually easy to translate so why would i ctrl through them

>>18517139
I read the first few minutes where there is some meaningful text, and the girl says some cute things.
The moment the dick goes inside, I start skipping. I stop skipping at the white flash and when MUH HEAD GOES MASSHIRO. Between these two, 99% of the time there is just some completely generic description of the sex and moans.

>>18517139
What you're referring to "translating" is actually called reading.

>>18517139
i play only all ages visual novel

>>18514176

>>18517074
Or you can learn them with less work if you just learn what か, でも, etc, mean. You wouldn't need to make separate cards (or cards at all) for いつでも　だれでも　何でも　どれでも　どこでも　いつか　いつか　だれか　何か　どれか　どこか

or the most important one バカか

イルカ

ハダか
関係なイメージ

か・・買い出し

日本語は難しいと悪いです

しか

カラス

To those who do or have done RTK, do you only allow yourself to view a card and pass it after visualizing it completely (as if you were writing it), or do you let yourself just see radicals within the kanji and pass it quickly afterwards? For example, in 枯, would you write out 木 and 古 visually in your head first, or just quickly imagine placements and flip the card? I know the latter may be faster, but I question how accurate and well-ingrained the memory may be if you don't spend the time to visualize enough (or if it may even be better to quickly assign radicals within a kanji).

>>18517397
you can totally recognize kanjis without fail every time but not know at all how to write them or otherwise product them from memory so it really just depends on if this matters to you

>>18517397
just learn the word 枯れる and you're good

>>18517220
Yeah, you could also point out that a variant is 羪. Etymology doesn't change that the radical is 食, and regardless of this entire idiotic argument, breaking kanji into the "wrong" components to learn them faster isn't going to harm you.

>>18516722
Not him but I gave it a shot. First try, no do-overs, hadn't read it before, and had to be quiet so I didn't get caught by my mom.
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1DhSijJKecH

>>18517397
I visualized every stroke for a long time. I gradually stopped doing this for the pieces that I have the most exposure to, unless there are a couple of different stroke orders or variations that come up. In your example, I would have no skipping the strokes for those, as long as you've already become quite familiar with them.

>>18517335
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7mXysNhgw8

>>18517436
I laughed.

>>18517436
i had to pause in the first five seconds after you said toradora sux which i whole heartedly agree with but i had to cringe and brace myself physically as well as 心の準備をする
will post trip report again soon

>>18517436
>>18517478
thank fucking god i was seriously dreading what would happen when i pressed play
then i skipped to the end to see if there was any kinda nice おまけ but there was none

>>18517420
I've been doing heavy daily studying, and I'm looking to maximize my efficiency. I had a harder time than usual yesterday, and I've been taking on a lot of tension and stress from my studies. Anything that is not particularly productive should be culled to minimize workload and maximize gains.

>>18517423
I don't have a problem with that kanji. I just thought it was an easy example.

>>18517441
>I would have no skipping the strokes for those

Just to clarify, you mean that as long as there isn't a notable stroke change (like the difference in shape of 大 between 墓 and 膜), that you allow yourself to just visualize the radicals themselves, right? Did you have any notable drops in performance (whether in Anki or in the field)?

While we're at it, any other suggestions regarding efficiency with RTK/Anki to suggest? Anything that might be pointlessly repetitive or fruitless, or recommended guidelines for maximizing time/gains, etc. I've been putting my all into it every day, and it is wearing me down a bit, but I won't give up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF4tI9aF_Xc

Dekinaimarine and Matt had a talk. Might be interesting/funny.

そんなの誰も気にしない

>>18517519
>>18517436
Wait a sec, these are the same voices.

>>18517504
if the goal for all your "gains" that need to be so fine tuned for efficiency does not involve being able to recall the shapes of individual kanji from memory in order to write them, then i suggest you drop RTK and find a way to study toward what your real goal is

otherwise keep going, but as it stands what you're doing is kind of tangent to actual japanese

>>18517177
I'm going adopt this and by adopt I mean pirate. 泊中堂々窃盗する
ざまあみろ

>>18517549
My current goal is to maximize recognition and recollection of JP kanji. I can remember vocabulary readings and meanings quite casually from years back, but I can't say I have the same talents for casual kanji acquisition. RTK has been working well. I've blazed through several hundred kanji in a short time already, and can write them as well. However, it has required a great workload to make consistent progress. I believe I can and should optimize it further.

>as it stands what you're doing is kind of tangent to actual japanese
Since this is the area in which I am most lacking, is it not a good idea to pursue direct improvement in it?

>want to read plotge
>cant even read moege without looking up things constantly
i hate this

>>18517628
Read games that are secretly chuunige

>>18517622
>Since this is the area in which I am most lacking, is it not a good idea to pursue direct improvement in it?
that's the part that's entirely up to you, but like I'm saying it has very little to do with understanding japanese, since what you're training in your example is recollection.
recollection is for output, or more specifically handwriting output, while recognition isn't trained by the process you were describing with 枯

if your goal is to understand japanese better, you're off on a tangent and you would be better off learning to read or listen. if it's to be able to recall and handwrite kanji, then what you're doing sounds fine

>>18517628
just fuckin do work dude dont let no one tell you that you cant and in 5 to 10 years you can come back to this thread and tell all these fuckers ざまあみろ lol

>>18517658
How can I combat my issue of not remembering written vocabulary due to kanji 'deficiency', then? In my experience, when studying vocabulary as a whole, I frequently had the issue of not remembering the construction of a word despite knowing the reading and meaning. It's just casually learning kanji by proxy at that point, and I don't understand how I can possibly remember isolated vocabulary when it is expressed, largely, with characters I can't decipher. At best, I could guess the readings based on a vague library of words I'd studied, assuming there was kana in the words (such as 忘れる). My review scores were not very good, and it took me a long time and great effort every day to try to remember vocabulary by what was essentially rote spamming. I could deal with the fatigue if I at least got decent results, but I didn't.

I'm not complaining, I'm just trying my damndest to get results. It's frustrating when people say "just do Core_k by rote you lazy-ass, lol", when I made an honest effort doing that more than once, and only found myself closer to a shortened lifespan than Japanese fluency. I'm not at all lazy--I'm a masochist who just wants results for his hard efforts. If it's not RTK/[other-kanji-learning-process], what am I to do?

I need help. I'm a New Years resolution fag who knows 800 words and 500 kanji. I'm sick of anki and dread doing it each day. I feel like I've made good progress but am really not sure how to continue from here. Do I keep forcing myself to do anki? Do I pick out a book and try to start reading? I've never learned another language (thanks amerifat education) and don't know what to do.

>>18517519
matt blown the fuck out

>>18517767
>I frequently had the issue of not remembering the construction of a word despite knowing the reading and meaning.
What do you mean by this? You couldn't remember how to WRITE the word? Because this doesn't fit the rest of your post so I'm confused.

>>18517767
just read you lazy faggot

>>18517840
can you summarize for me

>>18517767
>I don't understand how I can possibly remember isolated vocabulary when it is expressed, largely, with characters I can't decipher.
ideally you shouldn't be trying to remember isolated vocabulary in the first place, I agree that it's not very sensible when you're starting from stratch

recognition of kanji is something that pretty much needs to be self-taught, so I don't have much advice to give on the most efficient way for you personally to improve. however, seeing words a lot and making sense of their meanings, and the similar meanings of kanji with shared semantic compounds, and the shared pronunciations of kanji with the same phonetic compounds, helps a lot in getting that train rolling

so it's possible that kanji study could be a good base for you to get started with reading, but keep in mind that it's tangential. at some point, text should become penetrable enough for you to challenge it, and get more kanji knowledge and and make more connections than you would from just banging your head against the kanji wall in anki for several months

>hitting bump limit in less than 12 hours
This thread sure exploded.

>>18517834
I hope you didn't expect to learn the language in two months.
Anyway, if you don't want to waste what you've done so far set your new cards in anki to 0, and just keep maintaining what you know. Your daily reps should drastically drop without new words.
Then start doing something that you enjoy for a while.

>>18517834
You should start reading something at this stage. Stop learning new Core words and kanji in Anki and make a new vocabulary mining deck, and just add every new word you find to it. That way every new word you learn from reading will reappear in Anki the next day.

>>18517519
Good god, he forgot how to write 事?

>>18517628
Moege aren't necessarily easier than the simpler plotge. In fact, moege have this tendency to make sudden out-of-the-blue references to obscure cultural and/or historical shit for the sake of comedy which can lead to some really strange words.

>>18517971
Yeah, but if that goes over your head nothing happens.
In a plotge you might miss an important twist or clue.

>>18517971
Can confirm, the moege I'm reading makes constant references to mid-1900s economic-political theory and class warfare.

>>18517976
yes but is an important twist or clue really more important than making sure you understand every minute reference in the meisaku らきすた

>>18514566

>>18517841
>What do you mean by this?
I'll use 忘れる and 勉強 as examples. 忘れる isn't difficult to remember because the kanji is relatively simple in shape and construction (亡 + 心). I can remember the reading of わすれる, and thus know the ending of the word is the kana ’れる’. I can know that it means to forget something.
I can have a decent shot at remembering the rough visual of 忘 due to the simplicity, so all the points come together to create a memory log.

With 勉強, I know that it's read べんきょう、and that the meaning is to study. I have a vague understanding of the visual image, but it's more visually crowded and complex than 忘れる. This means it's harder to decipher between other kanji, especially if they're similar in form, even roughly. Furthermore, there's no kana in the word, so it's entirely reliant on this more complex text that I can't make any sense of beyond "it looks sort of like that one word."

When it comes to being able to physically write kanji, I don't care one bit. I just want to be able to recognize them in hopes that it will make vocabulary acquisition more fluid. Yet, even I know that just knowing the meanings of isolated kanji won't necessarily help me acquire vocabulary. I am clinging onto a crooked branch hoping it leads to a tree.

>>18517868
>seeing words a lot and making sense of their meanings...

I get that having repeated exposure to vocabulary and kanji with similar meanings and compounds can help. I did try Core, after all. I didn't have a good way to tag a visual reference to the kanji I was reading within vocabulary. It ended up being remembering example sentences on cards and writing the words over and over--just endless rote coupled with weak mnemonics (can't attach images to kanji I don't know). I was very disappointed with my poor progress, and the amount of effort I had to exert every day just exhausted me.

I would prefer to be learning vocabulary outright right now than plain kanji, but I don't want to fall into the same pitfalls as I did before. I would try it again if I had any idea how to do it right, and it seems people don't have much to say beyond "just do Core, just read, lol".

>keep in mind that it's tangential

I know. This is what's kept me from doing RTK for a long time. At the pace I am going, I can complete RTK within two months start-to-finish. I didn't want to do something that wouldn't bring direct results, and did not (and still do not) care about physically writing kanji at all. I just don't see an alternative that could end in me making progress without getting burned out again and again. I can't keep staying up until 5 AM every day studying something without seeing results.

>>18517999
just finish rtk it works and youll actually complete something and be able to move on to the world of all the rest of the kanji you havent yet remembered

>>18517999
RTK worked for me (in making vocabulary easier to recognize). People in this thread will just tell you to do exactly what they did because that is obviously the one true method.

Top left panel,

He describes the types of panties he likes as if he were classifying them in a system of taxonomy.

She tells him not to speak as if panties were animals.

Right? I had to scratch my head over this one for a little.

>>18517999
just to be clear, when I talk about exposure I'm not talking about anki, I'm talking about exposure to native japanese with fully fledged context and word choice and everything

core and its example sentences do very little to make connections in your brain, likely less than just a simple RTK deck with a "words that use this kanji" column on the backside for you to review

that aside since it looks like you're at a standstill with everything else you've tried, just do this >>18518013
even if it's a roundabout way of doing so with a bunch of strings attached, it'll force-train you to recognize a bunch of kanji and make a good base of knowledge you can draw from later, so it doesn't hurt

>>18518030
spot on

>>18518030
this isn't even funny
not just that panel, the entire page

>>18518043
It's called dry humor.

>>18518043
It's sophisticated Japanese manzai humor.
>person A says something dumb and unfunny
>person B gets angry
See, how hilarious?

>>18518049
dont tell them my secret

>>18518049

>>18518037
サンキュー

>>18518049
boke/tsukkomi is the epitome of comedy

>>18518134
Like hell it is, you baka!

Why do people fall for the rtk meme? If you're going to use mnemonics at least try the Kodansha Kanji Learner's Course because the mnemonics aren't terrible and you don't have to make up the last 1500 yourself. RTK is a seriously lazy book

>>18518225
>you don't have to make up the last 1500 yourself.
I used stories from koohii ;)

>>18518146
>バカ
>アホじゃない
お前は１つだけの役目があった

>>18517680
I see you watch sora yori

>done with reps
>finished my 1-2 hours of reading
>no irl errands to do
>get to relax and play monhun all night
is there a better feeling

差し入れする女どう思いますか?

Seeing Nukemarine got me scared. What if we stay dekinais forever? Is it even possible to learn japanese?

>>18513854
Is there any logic behind constructing kanji?
> 要 - need
> 西 - west. 女 - woman

>>18518371
who

>>18518033
>when I talk about exposure I'm not talking about anki, I'm talking about exposure to native japanese.

I understand that. In fact, when I read a few times, I could remember more than otherwise. For example, in the manga ハカイジュウ, I could remember one of the names of the characters (瑛士) since I could refer to something with similar text/reading (英語) and easily remembered 士 as じ (though the default reading is し). The character had some importance/presence, so I could remember him more easily. Yet, with the main character ’陽’, I didn't (even if I knew his name was read as あきら). All it looks like to me now is a flag, day/sun, and seaweed. Same thing happened with Crayon Shin Chan--Shin Chan calling his penis ぞうさん makes it hard to forget that elephant = ぞう. I wouldn't know the reading as 象 unless I saw it elsewhere, though.

Sometimes, I could know the reading and meaning just because of vague recollection. I couldn't say if I could replicate it outside certain parameters, though. 冒険王ビイト is a good example--I can remember the reading and meaning of this title, but would I remember the kanji placed in other places (besides something like 王)?

I could just read and mine, but the amount of work it would take just to set up a manual deck would surely be a lot. I couldn't even type out the names of the MC of ハカイジュウ (鷹代 or 陽) because I couldn't find the proper entries myself, even when I typed the kana correctly. I had to go to MAL to find the proper kanji. I question if I would have picked up text like that over time after seeing it over and over again, or if it would just be a series of perpetual Anki failures and mistaking one kanji for another.

>core and its example sentences do very little to make connections in your brain, likely less than just a simple RTK deck...

So if RTK is less effective than even Core, what should I do? I know I can pick up vocabulary passively through reading, but I can't say how effective it will be for more complex kanji/words, especially since arranging SRS cards for every single word would be a strenuous task that could otherwise be avoided by just using a Core deck. I suppose I could do one of those 600-something card "most frequent kanji" decks instead of RTK, then just move onto reading + core, too.

I do hope I don't sound like I am complaining. You just seem to have a better idea of what works and what doesn't, so I hope to receive input on what I could do differently to get better results. If I could spend my time just reading books like ハカイジュウ and doing some light mining/reps every day instead of what I am currently doing, and still make solid progress, JP study would be a much more wholesome entity in my life.

>>18518225
Doesn't it try to teach you multiple meanings + the readings? That would be an overload of information to have all of that at once. At the very minimum, I'd have to halve my pace. There's plenty of stories on Koohii too, if I have trouble making my own.

>>18518253
Is this read as:
"You only had one job to do." ?

>>18518343
"What do you think of putting it into (intercourse) the waist of a woman?"
"What do you think of putting it into a woman?"

Is this basically asking what it's like to have sex with a woman? I'm not sure if I'm reading it properly.

>>18518393
See
>>18517519

>>18513854
Has anyone been using their Japanese to improve their JAV searches?

>>18513854
Has anyone been using their Japanese to improve their JAV searches? If so, how do you say cum?

>>18518388
>Not making edgy cartoon violence mnemonics to remember them.
>Not remembering 要 as "You NEED to get in the kitchen or I'll drop this fucking sign on your head."
>Not remembering 西 as "Get your fat fucking animal legs out of that box nest and move WEST or I'll have Clint Eastwood do an impersonation of dropping a fucking ceiling beam on you until you resemble a desk, you fucking bird."

>>18518400
>"What do you think of putting it into (intercourse) the waist of a woman?"
>"What do you think of putting it into a woman?"
えぇぇっと…
It's actually a card from a premade deck and it doesn't have a translation, but I read it as "What do you think about women who bring shit (food/whatever) to workers (you at work)?" Could also be ~to prisoners.
Maybe.

>>18518414
行く？射精？

>>18518388
They used to be simple drawings and slowly turned into a bunch of somewhat standardized shapes, so no, there's very little immediate logic to most of them

Like that 覀 you see there isn't actually 西

The best you'll get is semantic compounds in more complex kanji having some kind of relation to their specific meaning, like with 滝　湖　港 you can tell all of them have something to do with water

>>18518414
not really because i just search for actress names which i might as well be a monkey

>>18518422
I don't see anywhere where items or employees/workers are mentioned. Or bringing anything.
>tfw illiterate

>>18518400
just finish RTK and start vocab and reading, don't jump between shit

>>18518435
>I don't see anywhere where items or employees/workers are mentioned. Or bringing anything.
You're right -- I got that part from a dictionary:
https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E5%B7%AE%E3%81%97%E5%85%A5%E3%82%8C
ねぎらいのために飲食物を届けること。また，そのもの。 「上司から－の弁当が来た」

>>18518423
Does it really make sense to write い as 行 in this case?

>>18518400
>So if RTK is less effective than even Core, what should I do?
i think you misread that sentence, i'm saying it's probably more effective than core because core is just mindless drilling

i didn't do core, in fact what i did in the beginning was a lot closer to RTK but i wouldn't necessarily recommend anyone else do the same

for your situation it might just be the thing though, so i would try it out or KKLC or whatever while at the same time making sure to keep trying to read or otherwise take in japanese on the regular because that's where the language learning happens

>especially since arranging SRS cards for every single word would be a strenuous task that could otherwise be avoided by just using a Core deck.
trust me you aren't going to be avoiding anything by using flashcards made up of brand spanking new vocab with zero context
in a contest between reading+mining and core the former wins out undoubtedly
you just need to find a way to make this "strenuous task" more palatable for you, like read something you enjoy and are motivated by to the point you want to look up words and remember them and even manually make flashcards for them

i don't know how to help beyond saying that because for me the language itself was enough motivation to keep going through what i was reading, even though as a beginner i didn't really have a clue how compelling or well written or relatively "good" or whatever it really was

>>18518444
You're right, fuck it. Too much time spent on /djt/, not enough time ruining my sleeping patterns further. Forgive my weakness, /djt/. Reps are now.

>>18518456
It seems to usually be written with kana alone. http://jisho.org/search/%E8%A1%8C%E3%81%8F -> #9

>>18518388
>>18518424
attached image

>>18518456
it's pretty much always written with katakana when it means to spunk

>>18518400
The words are there as suggestions so that you encounter some actual language while doing the study as opposed to only characters. You're not ready supposed to memorize them, maybe one or two for the primary readings if you're really ambitious

Do you mark a card wrong if you don't remember all readings? for example がらがら

>>18518585
Do you mean meanings? It depends on review time of the card, if it's 1 month or less than I just copy a word into a text file and press hard (if I correctly answer main meaning(s)), if it's more than I hit "again"

>>18518600


Yeah

>>18518585
I don't mine onomatopoeia because they are a feel not a think

>>18518462

>i don't know how to help beyond saying that
It's okay. You've been honest, and given me as much advice as anyone could really ask for. I appreciate the time and effort you've given to me. I'm going to continue learning kanji, even if it might exhaust me. In a few months, I will be done with RTK. I only pray that I will be able to have results that can help me with vocabulary acquisition in the future.

Before I leave to resume my studies, my plan is:

1. Finish RTK (just meaning -> kanji like usual, not learning readings like in KKLC)
2a. Begin vocab mining from media (unsure of how I should format them)
2b. + Core2k (maybe just 10 a day) or a smaller most frequent words deck.

Sound good? Any final thoughts?

>>18518490
Is KKLC arranged in the same order as RTK, or is it notably different?

>>18518267
Thanks to you I finished my studies for today as well. Now I can play Persona 5 for the rest of the day and read some manga.

>>18518626
you don't have to memorize the readings, but I think it would be a good idea to at least be aware of them, like use a deck that has words on the back of the card maybe

like 飲 could have a list on the back with:

飲（の）む
飲食（いんしょく）
飲料（いんりょう）
etc. with a quick definition for each maybe

that's the kind of deck I had and I think it made some of the kanji make more sense and helped me draw connections, especially once I started reading

again you don't have to actually memorize this, just maybe glance at it if you find yourself having trouble with the kanji or if you become interested in how it's used in practice