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/jp/ - Otaku Culture


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18497719 No.18497719 [Reply] [Original]

This is a Japanese language learning thread designed by and for those interested in traditional otaku media such as anime, manga, light novels, Japanese video games, etc.

Read the Guide linked below before asking how to learn Japanese:
https://neodjt.neocities.org/newguide.html
Check the Cornucopia of Resources before asking where to download X or Y:
https://djtguide.neocities.org/cor.html

Previous Thread >>18481062

>> No.18497725

関西弁=糞弁

>> No.18497739

>>18497719
>newguide
lol no

>> No.18497756
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18497756

>>18497719
This thread was earlier so I'll post here, but check the stuff you're linking next time. If you really want to put the new guide in the OP, you should rehost it and remove this notice.

>> No.18497810

>>18491767

where to get dubbed Western series (Twin Peaks/the Office) from besides purchasing them?

>> No.18497857

>>18497725
What don't you like about it?

>> No.18497897
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18497897

Was this piece of shit actually written by someone who has studied japanese?

>> No.18497937

>>18497810
Search for the series name and 日本語吹替版. The Office appears to only have been released with Japanese subtitles. Twin Peaks also appears to only have Japanese subtitles.

I found a website that has full episodes of ツイン・ピークス with Japanese subtitles but it's in Korean and I have no idea what the message being displayed on the video is all about.
http://www.pandora.tv/view/marijana7/42319733/#34151122_new

The Japanese dub of Seinfeld is kind of surreal.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9935075

>> No.18497974

>>18497897
I use that phrase all the time.

>> No.18497978

>>18497974
Why? It's unnatural and gets you worse results than just X 意味

>> No.18497981

>>18497978
>Why? It's unnatural
I use unnatural searches in English all the time because the results are slightly better.

>and gets you worse results than just X 意味
That gets you Chinese garbage unless you're using Japanese google.

>> No.18497993
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18497993

>>18497981
Example.

>> No.18497998

Anyway it's phrased that way because the results tend to be better but it should probably say that it doesn't mean "meaning of X".

>> No.18498034

>>18497897
A.X とは

これもべんりだよ

>> No.18498068
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18498068

>>18497981
I don't understand what you're trying to show me here. Instead of using the phrasing that will get google to pop up the J→J and J→E immediately, you're typing in something that doesn't make sense and jumping through hoops? Why?
And what the fuck? 意味 isn't Chinese.

Here you go while we're cherrypicking.

>>18497998
This is just silly damage control. How are the results better exactly?
I don't know why it's there in the first place, any idiot can figure out the best way to search for the meaning of a word is "word+meaning." All it does is reinforce that "Xという意味" is how you ask what X means in Japanese, which it isn't.

>> No.18498092

>>18498068
>And what the fuck? 意味 isn't Chinese.
Yes it is.

>> No.18498102

Google's definition widget is bad.

>> No.18498132
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18498132

>>18498102
When you use の意味, the J-E translation always pops up unless you use Japanese Google. Dropping the の means sometimes you get Chinese stuff instead of Japanese, especially with chuuni vocabulary you're likely to need to look up manually. Stuffing in random kana affects the results in other ways. All considered, I think screwing with the wording to trick the algorithms is fine.

>> No.18498134

>>18498092
Playing around with Google, the way to get the search engine to search for the meaning of Chinese words is word+的含义

>> No.18498146

>>18498134
When I search word+的含義 I still get some Japanese stuff because it ignores 含義. 義 is the traditional version of 义.

>> No.18498149
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18498149

>>18498132
>those hanzi in the upper image
ew

>> No.18498151

>>18498149
Yeah for some reason Chrome is using hanzi in English mode and kanji in Japanese mode. Weird.

>> No.18498183

>>18498146
>義 is the traditional version of 义
I was wondering what the traditional version of 义 was. Didn't mean to further derail the thread so no more Chinese silly runes from me. ^_^`

>> No.18498212

There's another djt?

>> No.18498260

>>>18486179

What kind of OCR do you use on Linux?

>> No.18498261

>>18498260
You can use tesseract on linux pretty easily.

>> No.18498322

おなかすいた

こっそりれいぞうこあけると

おこられるかもしれない

>> No.18498362

>>18498261
Did you setup some keyboard shortcut with invoking scrot (or similar), processing it with tesseract and copying it to clipboard?

Would you be able to share your script? When I tried doing this, my results weren't exactly ideal.

>> No.18498377

>>18498322
こっそり家出て自販機で何か買おう

>> No.18498409

Do Japanese people dream in kanji?

>> No.18498421

>>18498377
じはんきがない

コンビニがとなりまちにある

>> No.18498424 [DELETED] 
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18498424

>>18498260
I'm the guy you replied to.

I use KanjiTomo. You need to run it from the terminal like so:
>java -jar /home/oresama/Downloads/KanjiTomo/KanjiTomo.jar -run

If you only double-click the KanjiTomo.jar file in your file manager, it seems to omit the "-run" flag resulting in nothing happening. You need to have Java JDK or Java JRE installed for it to work (the KanjiTomo website recommends JDK). KanjiTomo is not officially supported on Linux and, as a result, it seems the Zoom feature doesn't work (at least for me).

One note on using KanjiTomo: I highly recommend you tell it what the text colour and orientation are under the Settings menu. It increases accuracy considerably compared to leaving it on automatic in my experience. Ignore the "White on Black" and "Black on White" descriptors; It should really say "Light on Dark" and "Dark on Light".

>> No.18498438

>>18498260
I'm the guy you replied to.

I use KanjiTomo. You need to run it from the terminal like so:
>java -jar KanjiTomo.jar -run

If you only double-click the KanjiTomo.jar file in your file manager, it seems to omit the "-run" flag resulting in nothing happening. You need to have Java JDK or Java JRE installed for it to work (the KanjiTomo website recommends JDK). KanjiTomo is not officially supported on Linux and, as a result, it seems the Zoom feature doesn't work (at least for me).

One note on using KanjiTomo: I highly recommend you tell it what the text colour and orientation are under the Settings menu. It increases accuracy considerably compared to leaving it on automatic in my experience. Ignore the "White on Black" and "Black on White" descriptors; It should really say "Light on Dark" and "Dark on Light".

>> No.18498453

>>18498438
Thanks, I will probably give KanjiTomo another try. Although I believe that were I able to set it up correctly, tesseract invoked by keyboard shortcuts would be somewhat faster.

>> No.18498484
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18498484

>>18498421
どこ住んでるの?
日本だとどこにでもあるんじゃないの?

>> No.18498530

>>18497937
Twin peaks has definitely a dub
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PlPiaXnqis&t=5s

>> No.18498565
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18498565

ちょっと

いなかいけばコンビニなくなる

NNBもとなりまちにコンビニあったような

>> No.18498636
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18498636

Could someone please explain how exactly どうぞ is used? Cause the core 2k deck puts it as 'please' but after checking google, it's being said that it's used to mean 'go ahead' or something of the sort

>> No.18498643

>>18498322
>>18498377
>>18498421
>>18498484
>>18498565
Will you fuck off to /int/ already? There is a long running thread for off topic blogging in Japanese and nothing you post every has anything to do with this thread.

>> No.18498667

>>18498636
>it's used to mean 'go ahead' or something of the sort
yes go watch more cartoons or something

>>18498643
>nothing you post ever has anything to do with this thread
he does post answers and contribute on occasion
in fact he's already done so in this very thread but you wouldn't know that cause you can't read japanese huh

>> No.18498679

>>18498667
How do you know who he is and why is that happening? I thought this was an anonymous imageboard. If you like talking & blogging to your buddies so much, why don't you make a discord group and fuck off?

>> No.18498685

>>18498679
Also, even if the anon up there can't read Japanese, anyone can use the translator.

>> No.18498697

>>18498636
>どうぞ
when you let other people do something, almost always you can use it.
e.g. どうぞ(受け取ってください)。
 どうぞ(食べてください)。
 どうぞ(入ってください)。etc.
> 'go ahead'
same in English? "please go ahead"

>> No.18498710

>>18498697
Thanks anon, that helps a ton

>> No.18498738

>>18498636
It's one of those words which you can't really nail down with a simple English simile.

>after you
>please take one
>go ahead
etc. are all potential translations. What it means in English varies from context to context.

It's a polite expression used when offering something to somebody/giving deference to someone.

>> No.18498771

>>18498679
why are you acting like imouto's blogging and immediately apparent posting style are my responsibility

>>18498685
i'm sorry to have to break this to you here and now under these unfortunate circumstances but google translate doesn't know japanese either

>> No.18498780

Did anyone here "learn" the kanji at a break neck speed? Did it work well?

I was doing them at 10 a day and got bored because I never looked at the settings to realize you could change the number of new cards/day. I have lots of free time and focus, enough for maybe 50-100 a day, not including reviews.

Is there any reason I shouldn't speed through them?

>> No.18498791

>>18498780
ちょっとおおすぎるかな

1週間で30くらいがいいとおもうよ

>> No.18498800

>>18498780
There's no reason not to spend as much time as you'd like on learning, as long as you don't burn out.

>> No.18498805

>>18498780
1. Just because you have time to learn 50-100 kanji a day doesn't mean you're actually mentally capable of doing so.

2. 50 cards a day will before long result in over 500 reviews per day. 100 cards a day will quickly result in over 1000 reviews per day.


I understand your impatience but you are only going to make yourself suffer and fail. What you are attempting is not possible in the first place and will amount to nothing more than wasted time., forcing you to go all the way back to step one, possibly after a long break from learning Japanese altogether as a result of the frustration.

>> No.18498811

How many time does it take for you to finish core?

>> No.18498834

>>18498791
>>18498805
>>18498800

1000 reviews is way too much, even as someone who has no problem spending hours studying. I think 30 does sound like a good place to start, then I might see if I can handle more. Thanks for the advice, anons

>> No.18498835

>>18498811
>How many time

>> No.18498841

>>18498780
いちにちでおぼえようとするのは

ネイティブでもやらないよ

すぐおぼえるとすぐわすれるからね

じわじわおぼえるとなかなかわすれないよ

>> No.18498852

>>18498780
20 is average pace
30-50 is fast pace.
Don't go over 50. You WILL burn out.

>> No.18498882

>>18498852

The pace is largely irrelevant to be honest, what counts is how many you can remember. Whether you do 10 or 50 per day barely matters in the long run because it's all bottlenecked by how many you can actually keep stuck in your head. Any initial time saved by going faster than you can handle will be negated by having to face a larger amount of future reviews in the upcoming months.

>> No.18498911

ちからをぬいて

たのしく

ちからづよく

いっていのかずを

書き取りしてね

100字詰めを2ページ

おわるまでやめたらだめだよ

>> No.18498923

>>18498811
Just go into anki, delete it, and find a better method. BOOM, core done!

>> No.18498929
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18498929

こうやって

かきおわるまでかく

やくそくだよ

>> No.18498941

>>18498929
めんどくせえ

2ページタイピングでいいや

>> No.18498942
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18498942

The fuck is this shit? How can the degree of formality just randomly change completely based on whether it's printed on paper or not?

>> No.18498953

Decided to check out the AJATT website. Wtf is this shit? It looks like a huge scam. Is this really the official AJATT guide? If it is, is there a more condensed, professional-looking version of the guide?

>> No.18498962

>>18498953
The more time you spend doing stuff in Japanese, the faster you will learn Japanese.

>> No.18498968

>>18498942
Yo man, would you, like, write a book in English, like, in the same manner as the, like, spoken language?

>> No.18498970

>>18498942
Safe to ignore

I have no clue why they're trying to distinguish text from speech like that in the current era but suffice it to say it's not particularly important. I think the point is that である sounds literary

>> No.18498981

>>18498953
You don't need any of the shit from the AJATT site, just the "concept" of AJATT, aka immersion (in other words, what people from DJT who have enough self-control to stop themselves from wasting several hours per day on 4chan have already been doing for years.)

>> No.18498982

>>18498970
You also don't use だ in writing unless it's a dialogue or inner monologue.

>> No.18498992
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18498992

>>18498953
I've never actually used any of the material because the layout is rather retarded and the method is literally in the title, but I like getting his emails as somehow they're still unique 9 months after I subscribed. Actually I never read them, I just like having them come into my inbox and say hi to me like I have a japanese learning friend messaging me all the time. I decided to read this one I got the other day, and it really sucked.

>> No.18499003

>>18498982
dialogue (incl. messaging, the internet) and inner monologue makes up the vast majority of writing though

making that distinction and leaving it unexplained is like saying the pronoun "I" isn't used in english writing

>> No.18499007

>>18498942
I do not quite understand this explanation.
>change completely based on whether it's printed on paper or not?
No, as far as I know
です -> formal
だ/である -> informal
であります -> The speaker or writer must be a scholar, soldier or politician.

>> No.18499023

>>18499003
Obviously if you quote spoken text, then the rules for spoken text apply.

>> No.18499026

>>18498941
フリックのほうが

おぼえるにはいいとおもうよ

>> No.18499033
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18499033

>>18499023
"spoken text"

>> No.18499139
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18499139

だ/である is used everywhere

>> No.18499152

How do you write in nip?

>> No.18499161
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18499161

>>18499152

>> No.18499163
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18499163

>>18499152
You need a Japanese keyboard, of course.

>> No.18499173

>>18499163
That's a chinese keyboard though

>> No.18499176

>>18499163
You appear to be missing a few important keys I would say. (A few hundrer maybe?)

>> No.18499186

>>18499152
Well, if you mean your question seriously and you speaking of using computers, I advise you to search for Google IME.

>> No.18499187

>>18499173
You know it's Japanese because the character for love (好) is there. Chinese have no soul and are incapable of love.

>> No.18499191
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18499191

>>18499176
Oh, there's more.

>> No.18499202

>>18499191
The learning curse of this must me significantly worse than that of vim and emacs combined.

>> No.18499203

>>18498953
Half the AJATT Table Of Contents is just motivational stuff. The other half of it is theory and execution.

While the Table Of Contents take several days to read, the AJATT method can actually be summarised very briefly:
1. Aim to be reading Japanese or listening to Japanese 24 hours a day ("All Japanese All The Time")
2. Don't read a grammar guide (...even though the founder and everyone else who has done AJATT successfully did)
3. Learn words by making sentence cards for them in an SRS program.
4. Switch to J-J dictionaries and cards as soon as possible.

>> No.18499222

>>18498942
Someone needs to make an edit of DoJG without the cancerous romaji.

>> No.18499258

>>18499222
Only beginners care about romanji. It works just as well as hiragana.

>> No.18499302

>>18499258
Only beginners say romanji instead of romaji

>> No.18499319
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18499319

>>18499302

>> No.18499510

>>18497719
Is anybody planning on uploading some new stuff to the DJT library next month? Seems like we're still missing a few items. Also, is there a place where I could upload a few things for so that they'd be included in the next update?

>> No.18499629

>>18499510
Yes, just post it here and they'll be included in the next update.

>> No.18499899

I just finished Tae Kim's Complete Grammar guide. It doesn't seem to be a 'complete' guide at all, more like an 'optimised' guide. Should I go through the actual full guide or just keep reading and making notes of new grammar I come across?

>> No.18499927

>>18499899
Start reading actual stuff and go through a few cards in the DoJG deck every day while you're at it.

>> No.18499930

>>18498183
So you learn those Japanese kanji and you have no idea how they correspond to 簡体字? For real? You just learn shit like 義 and 义 twice???

>> No.18499935

>>18499899
>It doesn't seem to be a 'complete' guide at all, more like an 'optimised' guide
Pretty much. That's the point, it's short and has covers all the basics.
There is no "full" tae kim guide, he has another guide but last I checked it's unfinished and honestly a little worse at getting to the point than his grammar guide.

>just keep reading and making notes of new grammar I come across?
Yes. Do this, use google and DOJG here:
https://core6000.neocities.org/hjgp/
to fill in gaps in your knowledge.

>> No.18499939

I'm looking for a specific anki deck I used to have. It was a core 2k/10k, I think. The front of the card was the term in english, incomplete sentence in japanse and complete sentence in english. The back was japanese term, complete japanese sentence, complete english sentence and buttons to play the audio of both term and sentence. Does anyone have it/know where I can get it?

>> No.18499942

>>18499899
The Tae Kim linked and recommended in our guide is not the "Complete Guide", but the Grammar Guide.

>> No.18499956

>>18499939
That deck layout is obviously terrible.

>> No.18499971

>>18499927
Thanks for the recommendation.

>>18499942
Yeeeeah. I thought I was being big dick supreme and going one level beyond to do as much reading as possible. That didn't work out for me.

>>18499935
Thanks for this. Can I just double-check that this is an online-only resource and not something I can put in an Anki deck? I just noticed the pictures have a scroll bar and I don't think that'd translate well to mobile.

>> No.18499978
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18499978

Is 縦断 some kind of title, or is there some meaning I'm not getting here?

>> No.18499981

I'm going to buy property in Japan.

>> No.18499995

>>18499978
It means it goes throughout Kunashima.

>> No.18500000

>>18499956
How so?

>> No.18500004
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18500004

>>18499995
ありがとうアノン。

>> No.18500013

>>18499978
Do you even yomi?

>> No.18500017

>>18499978
>>18500004
Reminder that Mashiro > Misaki = Asuka > Rika.

>> No.18500024
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18500024

>>18500013
Yomichan? I mainly use Rikaichan on Pale Moon alongside the Kenkyusha J-E dictionary. For that particular word I also tried googling and only got similar definitions.
>>18500017
I've been reading through this really slowly(a week and I'm only at this point) so I can't really say so far. Although I really want to fuck Misaki when she's in her 低血圧 mode.

>> No.18500026

>>18499971
There's an anki deck too but you really shouldn't bother, this isn't the kind of stuff you acquire through rote memorization. The grammar part is mostly intuitive, or just classical conjugations, and you'll figure it out anyway.

There's a lot of it that's just common use patterns of words like 契機 and 前提, more like a dictionary of phrases than "grammar"

It's better to just read it like you would any other guide if it interests you.

>> No.18500049

>>18500026
Alright, thank you very much for the help.

>> No.18500061

Mining and having to add card to anki is such a chore...

>> No.18500101

>>18500061
It literally takes 5 seconds to add a card to anki

>> No.18500107

>>18500061
Are you doing it in some stupid way or something?

>> No.18500131

>>18498738
どうぞ is pretty much used the same way Italians use ''prego''. Monolingual amerimutts wouldn't understand.

>> No.18500141

>>18500131
MARTELO NO PREGO, CARALHO! FODE SIM!

>> No.18500160

>>18500061
I find the adding to Anki process to be a pretty decent review myself. When I mine words, I just put them into a txt file and then the next morning I manually add them into Anki after looking up their definitions again. It's a decent refresher of whatever I mined last night.

>> No.18500171

>>18500061
if youre looking at words externally from a browser you can just paste the list into pastebin or something and then just use yomi to mine them quickly

>> No.18500222

>>18500160
When I mined I used to manually add words like this, because I wanted daijirin definitions only and was too lazy to figure out how to get rikai to do it.
It it pretty good review, especially when you read the J>J dictionary as you do it for more comprehensible input

>> No.18500291

>>18500061
Are you actually retarded? No, seriously?

>> No.18500338
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18500338

>>18497719
>https://neodjt.neocities.org/newguide.html

>> No.18500386

Are there any resources on calligraphy? My written kanji always look ugly as fuck and I'd really rather have a readable and aesthetically pleasing writing if at all possible. There are local courses here in my city but I'd rather not pay for them if there are online resources that can help.

>> No.18500396

>>18497725
You only hate it because you're too scrub to understand it.

>> No.18500411
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18500411

>>18498771
>i'm sorry to have to break this to you here and now under these unfortunate circumstances but google translate doesn't know japanese either

>> No.18500416

>>18500411
You have to go back.

>> No.18500431

>>18499161
What kind of pen is that?
>>18500416
Go back where? Is there somewhere that people legitimately think Google Translate is good? Sorry you took offense to my laughing Kermit the Frog picture, sport.

>> No.18500440

>>18500431
I'm not offended, you just have to go back.

>> No.18500447
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18500447

I did 6 hours of Aiyoku no Eustia today, and I want to fucking die. Why does reading have to be so hard and slow, Christ. I bet a native would have made it as far as I did in <2 hours.

What's worse is that I actually have N1 with a half-decent score. Why am I still in dekinai-land?

>> No.18500477

>>18500447
Because you're still illiterate because you haven't read enough.

>> No.18500479

>>18500061
the time you spend mining could just be spent on more reading

>> No.18500494

>>18500447

Think of it this way, if you can read even 1/3rd the speed of a native you're lightyears ahead of most of this place. Just keep at it.

>> No.18500540

>>18500447
>What's worse is that I actually have N1 with a half-decent score. Why am I still in dekinai-land?
Because you don't need to read native level stuff in order to pass it?

>> No.18500554

>>18500494
I can read at 1/3 the speed of a native and I don't know Japanese.

>> No.18500610
File: 101 KB, 256x256, 1445984401033.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18500610

>>18500440
Well seeing as there's nowhere in particular I came from, we seem to be at a standstill.

>> No.18500619

>>18500610
I'm sure there's somewhere you belong out there.

>> No.18500634

>>18500554
I can't read with native speed and I don't know japanese.

>> No.18500641

>>18500634
Aww.

>> No.18500651

>>18500447
it's almost as though the JLPT is a scam

>> No.18500748

齉齉

>> No.18500775

>>18500338
Fuck off grandma, the new guide is good, do you hate everything that's not as old as you?

>> No.18500807

>>18499187
That's not funny

>> No.18500993
File: 44 KB, 251x231, 1515345559432.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18500993

Does anyone have a transcription of the listening comprehension audio files for the second edition workbook vol 1? ;_; I know it's in the answer key but I don't have the money to buy it and I can't find a torrent for the answer key.

Thank you in advance if anyone has it.

>> No.18501058

Anyone know where to find 電車男? Don't see it in the CoR

>> No.18501174
File: 144 KB, 1280x960, src_30746129.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18501174

word of the day

水煙(すいえん)

>> No.18501189

>>18500447
Because you wasted time with textbooks and kanji study instead of actually reading daily.

>> No.18501309

>>18500447
how is Eustia anyways? Was thinking about picking it up

>> No.18501420

黒人が大嫌い

>> No.18501423

>彼は⾼校⽣だと聞いたけど、信じられない
How can I be sure that the topic here is a part of what the speaker said they heard rather that the topic of the whole sentence itself, essentially making it mean "He heard that they were a high school student, and doesn't believe it."

>> No.18501445

>>18501423
If it was
彼は、⾼校⽣だと聞いたけど信じられない
then you could be sure, but otherwise you just have to use context. Context determines what topics are allowed to do.

>> No.18501466

>>18501423
I doubt you can assert someone else's beliefs. 彼は信じられない sounds weird, same way you can't say 欲しい about someone else.
If what you said were the case, it would probably be written as 彼は信じられないって.

>> No.18501486

Which would be better for a first VN, Flyable Heart or Clover Day's? Flyable Heart has better art imo but the "Low Sexual Content" tag is making me weary.

>> No.18501521

>>18499978
アメリカ横断ウルトラクイズ was a popular Japanese tv program

>> No.18501523

>>18501486
wary*
Flyable Heart is easier to read.

>> No.18501525

>>18501466
I guess that's the biggest giveaway, taking in account the culture, but the lack of context really set me off balance.

>> No.18501556

>>18501486

You should read what you find the most interesting and thus can stick with, it's going to be real slow going at first no matter what.

>> No.18501581

I'm looking for a specific anki deck I used to have. It was a core 2k/10k, I think. The front of the card was the term in english, incomplete sentence in japanse and complete sentence in english. The back was japanese term, complete japanese sentence, complete english sentence and buttons to play the audio of both term and sentence. Does anyone have it/know where I can get it?

>> No.18501603

>>18501309
Pretty good so far. Granted, I’m a sucker for dark fantasy and the whole “flying city” aesthetic. The protagonist is surprisingly good compared to your average MC too.
The vocabulary is a bit of a problem though, so much relatively obscure shit for an entry-level VN. It’s no Leyline or moege.

>> No.18501616

>>18501423
信じられない is pretty much only used with the speaker as the implied subject as >>18501466 says so even in third person you would have to specify that it's not the narrator talking in some way.

Also this sentence is missing a subject for 高校生だ if it's not 彼, so it not make sense to phrase it that way. Even if you were already talking about someone else in the context, you are swapping out the context with 彼は here, so you would have to say something like:

彼は、[あの人]が高校生だと聞いたけど、それが信じられないようだ。

maybe.

So yeah, context, but also phrasing and process of elimination

>> No.18501625

>>18501603
do you have any idea why vndb has it listed as both low and normal sexual content?

>> No.18501642

>>18501616
>it not make sense
*it would not make sense

>> No.18501648

is it possible to read dogen and other classical texts with modern japanese

>> No.18501650

>>18499939
>>18501581
Why did you post this twice?

>> No.18501672

>>18501648
You can probably find a translation to modern Japanese if that's what you're asking

Obviously shit from the kamakura period isn't going to be in modern Japanese

>> No.18501711

>>18501616
>Also this sentence is missing a subject for 高校生だ
That, I guess, too. But I'm used to listening to colloquial speech where this type of expressions are abundant.

>> No.18501776

>>18501581
>>18500000
The layout is shit because you're training yourself to remember what is on the back of the card when you see what is on the front of the card. You'll never see what is on the front of the card in that layout outside Anki. Just use the deck in the guide.

>> No.18501826

しらうおのようなゆび

になりたい

>> No.18501925

なんかすごいのみつけた

がいこくからつかえるかはわからないよ
http://nlb.ninjal.ac.jp/

ことばのくっつきかたをしらべられるかもしれない

>> No.18501998

>>18501776
The layout of the one in the guide is garbage, tho. Complete white text on pitch black background is horrible to read. The english term is completely off center. It's so bad, that when there is more than four words, the second half is on the line below. Also, no button to play the audio? I study on my phone, I don't have a keyboard. It's fucking garbage.

>> No.18502103

>>18501998
Might as well give up now and save the time you‘d waste,

>> No.18502127

>>18502103
Give up on what?

>> No.18502201
File: 154 KB, 452x427, 1509312205460.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18502201

>can't decide between reading Clover Day's or Eustia first
both seem good but I can't decide if I want a moege with simpler vocab, or a more engaging story at the cost of harder vocab

>> No.18502229

>>18501925
ブックマークしておいた
前にも誰か貼ってくれたような気がするけどサンクス

>> No.18502272
File: 376 KB, 1182x868, ninjal.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18502272

たとえば「日本語」の

くっつきかたをおしえてもらった

がいこくのあのんには

べんりですか

>> No.18502275

>>18500101
At least one minute per word, could be more, the reason is that I like having the translation in my own native language.
Also I regularly have to check the japanese definition if the meaning is too vague.
Finally I want the correct audio pronunciation.
Unfortunately some part of the process can't be fully automated unless you want messy cards.

>> No.18502285
File: 209 KB, 1600x1094, 1513126047964.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18502285

So I'm about 2 months into anki and grammar guides and, dare I say, I'm actually starting to have fun learning this stupid language (that or I'm suffering from some sort of bizzare self-imposed Stockholm syndrome).
One thing though, I've found that, while I'm beginning to be able to recognize kanji for a specific "words" and conceptualize said kanji in my head when saying such words aloud, i would not be able to reproduce that kanji freehand even if my life depended on it. Is this normal or should I just study more (or am I just a brainlet)?

>> No.18502297

>>18502285
Don't worry about it.

>> No.18502302

>>18502285
>he doesn't know about radicals
git gud kid, also get a notebook and draw with correct stroke orders, at least once per new word you learn.

>> No.18502307

>>18502285
It's normal if you're not learning writing.

>> No.18502462

How bad would I be fucking myself trying to read Apeiria if i'm still new to reading? I heard it has a lot of quantum mechanic mumbo jumbo

>> No.18502472

>>18497857
the pitch accents

>> No.18502492
File: 23 KB, 352x487, Untitled3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18502492

Learning Japanese was the best decision I ever made.

>> No.18502497

>>18502201
Don't read either and play Rance 10 instead

>> No.18502635

Well fuck I started hitting some vocab that I really can't fucking remember so I've gradually gone from 20/d to 15/d new to keep sessions around 30m rip

>> No.18502695

Anyone in this thread have experience with actual university-level Japanese classes, degree and such? I'm currently starting my Japanese/native language (not English) double graduation plan (plus I plan on adding linguistics later on if I can). Many people say the degree is useless, there are no job opportunities, it's way better to just pay for language school courses and such, but I actually do like languages in general, and have been working with English translation for a while now. I can, and am willing to, study lots outside of the actual classes, but I'm not sure what else could I do to be as effective as I can with my learning parallel to the classes themselves.

>> No.18502721
File: 12 KB, 250x202, kimochi warui.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18502721

>>18502492
hmm..
>例を言う

>> No.18502759

>>18502695
Just follow the guide and treat the class as a supplement. Worst thing you could do is let the pace of the class hold you back.

>> No.18502772

>>18502695
Watch lots of anime

>> No.18502792
File: 131 KB, 703x761, reps.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18502792

I thought I was finally done with Anki, but I keep forgetting words even while reading every now and then. I'm returning after over a year of not doing any reviews at all.
I had over 10000 due when I started, 6734 due left now. It will probably take a month just to relearn everything.

>> No.18502808

In regards to writing out your kanji Heisig says
>Simply rewriting the
character will reinforce any latent suspicions you still have that the “tried and true method” of
learning by repeating is the only reliable one—the very bias we are trying to uproot.
How is learning by repetition a bad thing if it involves writing it? Also how is this any different than using Anki?

>> No.18502817

>>18502808
cool i fucked up that quote

>> No.18502823

>>18502808
Anki is spaced repetition (effective for long term) rather than massed repetition (effective only for short term).

>> No.18502834

>>18502759
>treat the class as a supplement
Are classes really that bad? At least for the university I frequent, the full professor body is Issei/Nissei, and from what I know, it's par for the course for the students to understand (closer to the end of the degree itself) native Japanese people when they come for lectures. I don't know if that's usual for university classes, so yeah.

>>18502772
What if I'm not a big anime fan? I do enjoy VNs, but I've never been into anime that much.

>> No.18502838

>>18501486
On average, every girl gets 2 sex scenes. I wouldn't say that is low sexual content, but I don't read VNs for the porn so maybe I'm wrong.

>> No.18502873

>>18502834
listen to japanese music, news, movies, books on tape? whatever aspect of japanese youre interested in find someway to experience it in japanese

>> No.18502889

How predictive is the J-CAT? Can a score be very inflated due to hitting right answers by chance?

>> No.18502899

>>18502834
It's impossible for classes to be good unless they require students to get a few thousand hours of native Japanese input. Very few do. Don't trust anyone's claims, try actually showing a fourth-year student a novel in Japanese and ask them to translate a few paragraphs.

>> No.18502916

>>18502695
I would never do this in a country that will get you indebted for college education.

>> No.18502926

>>18502297
Skinwalker plz go.

>> No.18502948
File: 479 KB, 480x470, 1517377459261.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18502948

>>18502916
>not being smart enough to sucker the government out of tax dollars to pay for your education
You don't even have to do that well, if you're brown you literally just have to make the national.average and you can get a free ride at most colleges.

>> No.18502949

>>18502889
Any multi answer test score can be inflated if you get lucky, J-CAT is no expection. In general you should still be scoring close to your actual level

>> No.18503020

>>18498667
>in fact he's already done so in this very thread but you wouldn't know that cause you can't read japanese huh
This single post here >>18498034 isn't helpful enough to justify every other post.
I know you don't like to get called out on your fucking pathetic roleplay but give it a rest. If you aren't the manchild in question it means you are defending the manchild, which is even worse because it would mean white knighting for someone who routinely spams the sort of off topic shit that people like you would freak out and tell them to go back to /int/ for if it was posted in English.
Those who defend the いもうと roleplayer have no right to complain about other off topic garbage in the thread. Don't even pretend like you aren't one of the loudest advocates of telling people to go back to /int/, hypocrite.

>> No.18503031

>>18502949
Well, I did like half of Kanjidamage before I dropped individual Kanji study, I'm only done with 1/4 of core and 3/4 of Tae Kim, I read Easy News every day and it puts me into 'Intermediate' (Between N3 and N2 of the old JLPT). This seems a bit inflated.

>> No.18503047

>>18502916
Mine doesn't, fortunately. College is free for anyone good enough to pass the tests. And it's very good education, for that matter.

>>18502899
I'll actually consult my professors and see how things really are in the course, how much it's expected of students outside of the classes and mandatory home study itself. Should give me a better idea of how much I should search for supplementary work.

Even then, I'm 100% going to get in contact with Japanese media daily as soon as I reach a level where grammar structure makes sense for me. It's how I managed to learn English so it should work just as well for Japanese, I hope.

>> No.18503098

>>18501521
no matter how much japanese you learn cultural references will always leave your asshole raw and bleeding

>> No.18503159

豆 = beans
頁 = page
頭 = Head
Am I supposed to just ignore stuff like this?

>> No.18503160

>>18502792
Please tell me this is a meme. Did you not read enough or something? I want OUT of anki hell when I'm done with core6k.

>> No.18503219

>>18503159
Like what?

>> No.18503226
File: 512 KB, 1024x1280, 1518115615678.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18503226

>>18503160
>I want OUT of anki hell
You fool, the ride never ends.

>> No.18503242

>>18503160
Probably not as much as I should have, but the thing is, once you get past beginner words, vocab can become rather specialized. Things that you might not normally meet for years unless you read specialized text.
You didn't read a sci-fi VN/LN for a year? You probably forgot a few dozen or few hundred technology/military/science related words. Same with food, etiquette (there are a fuckload of words that you only use when addressing nobility or the Emperor, etc), fantasy or magic, politics, religion, etc.

>> No.18503264
File: 86 KB, 756x574, 1517374798883.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18503264

I'm into my third week
Progress so far:
>Learned Hiragana/Katakana in a day or so, reading speed is picking up, no issue reading, writing or recalling individual kana
>Finished chapters 1 and 2 of Genki, starting chapter 3 and writing simple sample sentences
>18 days of daily Anki core 2k, retention is fairly high, practicing stroke order separately, have begun to use ultrabasic Kanji like 水予備、会、私、先生, 勉強 in emails
>Began emailing a local Japanese prof (Native JP) at my college who is going to help me learn for free through phone conversation, emails and course materials, they will only correspond in Japanese
>Began the Tae Kim guide (bought the physical copy) and RTK, but I'm wary of it

It seems like 2 hours a day after work is a fine amount to progress at a decent rate.
Why do people seem to have such a hard time starting? Or is the issue severe burnout?
頑張りましょう!

>> No.18503290

>>18503219
the fact that keywords or meanings of characters dont really matter because when they are put together they form a total unrelated meaning.

>> No.18503296

>>18503290
>to get her
>together
WOW WHEN YOU COMBINE IT THE MEANING CHANGES

>> No.18503314

>>18503290
If it helps you remembering them then that's actually a great thing.

>> No.18503315

>>18503296
is it really that simple?

theres really no reason to be snarky.

>> No.18503325

>>18503315
Sometimes you can guess the meaning, often you can try to guess the meaning but it will be inaccurate, but not completely unrelated. And often it will be completely unrelated. It's just how it is.

>> No.18503334

>>18503290
pepper mint, peppermint
butter fly, butterfly
tooth pick, toothpick
under stand, understand
wOaH, So CrAzY!!

>> No.18503380

>>18503314
>>18503325
So to remember the kanji for head I would just make a story about beans and pages like I did previously to learn beans and pages to begin with?
Duh.
I dont know why I assumed that the end result had to be relevant to the kanji it was made up of.
Thanks for the clarity

>> No.18503394

>>18503380
Well, at least it will make sense more often when it comes to jukugo.

>> No.18503409

>>18503020
what has got you in enough of a twist to be replying to shit from 12 hours ago

i never have or will tell people to go to /int/ because that's just pathetic whining

i'm just around to point out that your cherrypicking and backtracking and desperate grasping at straws as if i'm a regular poster here with some kind of agenda can't possibly be motivated by anything less questionable than whatever drives our resident spammer

word of advice if you want to see this thread spanking clean like the streets of japan why don't you report specific offending posts instead of lathering on more dirt

as it is your case is irrational angry trash and hardly easier on the eyes than a couple hiragana

>> No.18503420 [DELETED] 

>>18503409
Stop

shitposting

you

autist

>> No.18503437

>>18503159
Yes, ignore it.
Most kanji components have nothing to do with the meaning.

However, there are some radicals that are often related to the meaning. They are positioned on the left (with rare exceptions). Here are a few examples
氵- liquid, ex: 注ぐ 液 湿
疒 - body ailments, ex: 病気 痩せる
⺼ - body parts, ex: 腕 脳 肌
⻌ - physical locations, physical displacement, ex: 辺り 道 逃げる 追う 運ぶ 連れる

>> No.18503443

>>18503437
and by examples I meant radical examples, not the kanji examples. There are more radicals like these.

>> No.18503444

>>18503380
>頁 and 首 were originally the same pictographic character with the same meaning of “head”, and the graphical difference was that 頁 also included the body in addition to the head of the person.

豆 is phonetic and doesn't mean anything in 頭, but there you go, that's why 頁 is there and it's also why kanji like 項 and 額 have that component.

>> No.18503482

>>18503437
is there a big list of these kinds of examples?

ive memorized radicals and tbqh its kind of rare i put together meaning with them

>> No.18503498

>>18503334
ESL here but "understand" is the only word whose meaning I genuinely cannot assemble from "under" and "stand". It's just a word for me. Butterflies I can at least connect to flying, and I guess to flies, but instinctively I don't because flies are unpleasant.

>> No.18503520

>>18503498
sometimes you got to stand under something to really know how it works

>> No.18503540

>>18503520
like under you're mom's skirt lol

>> No.18503556
File: 18 KB, 415x220, jcat.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18503556

took the jcat and managed to scrape into the lower end of N1 level. did better than i expected but a lot worse than i should be

>> No.18503574

>>18503437
Very interesting. I like seeing things like this. I suppose this is how I assumed each components would work.
Thanks for this because it is really neat seeing how it all comes together in such a way.

>> No.18503629

>>18503264
you have a higher than average iq おめでとう

>> No.18503665

>>18503264
>but I'm wary of it
why?

>> No.18503673

>>18503264
>水予備、会、私、先生, 勉強 in emails
its funny to me that you are using words that make sense in emails to a professor but then you are also using 水予備

>> No.18503686

>>18503673
Could be 水曜日. Gaijin aren't very good at long vowels.

>> No.18503699
File: 330 KB, 1017x579, 1495494364681.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18503699

>>18503665
I'm picking up and using vocab from Genki and Anki fairly reliably and the forward warns of studying kanji separate from RTK and goes as far to say it could harm your studies if you do so
>>18503673
That's because I fucked up and typed the wrong word, meant to say 水曜日, which I did say use in the email [来週の水曜日一時二十分に会いましょう] despite tarding out just now
>>18503686
そうです, Anon

>> No.18503712

>>18503673
This gave me deja vu.
>>/jp/thread/S16623919#p16624547

>> No.18503747

>>18503699
Honest mistake lol I honestly just assumed that for some reason you were interested in dams and decided to mention it
>>18503712
lol oh god

>> No.18503786

>>18503747
The drop down fill ins for the Japanese keyboard are dangerous if you're new
I can't imagine what JSL 外人 has fucked up thinking they were smooth

>> No.18503793

>>18503786
JTL anon here, I've written some embarrassing things in this thread in the past.

>> No.18503797

What do I do about names of people/places kanji? Will I eventually just know them because of the words they come from?

>> No.18503822

>>18503797
Hahaha good fucking luck. You'll have to learn most of their readings one by one.
Sure there are simple ones like 大阪、広島、福島、田中、鈴木、山田, etc. But sometimes they are just completely arbitrary, like 一男、 東雲、如月 and every other name from the Lunar calendar, etc.

>> No.18503835

>>18503797
you curse this shitty language

>> No.18503837

>>18503797
Kanji for proper names are the biggest reason I can't make myself read Japanese newspapers because mildly interesting content becomes stupidly hard and I just can't be bothered because I want to memorize real kanji first. If I never learn any of the proper name kanji I won't care, but not knowing regular kanji will always hurt for as long as there are gaping holes in my knowledge thereof.

>> No.18503906

Anyone else here remember that guy who was learning Japanese to play Bravely Default? Did he ever end up making it?

>> No.18503919

>>18503906
Surely he must be interested in more than just that?
...somewhat related, I ended up buying Flying Fairy instead of For the Second because I thought For the Second was the sequel.

>> No.18503920

recommendation for my first visual novel?

>> No.18503927

我们所痛恨的就是如此可怕的准确性
但因为我们不知道死亡何时到达
所以会把生命当成一座永不干枯的井
然而,所有事物都只出现一定的次数,并且很少,真的
你会想起多少次童年中
某个特定的下午
某个深深成为你生命一部分的下午
如果没有它,你甚至无法想象自己的人生
也许,四或五次吧
甚至可能没这么多
你会看到满月升起几次呢?
也许20次,然而这些都看似无穷

>> No.18503930
File: 198 KB, 800x600, albatross.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18503930

>>18503920
Albatross Koukairoku is pretty easy.

>> No.18503950

>>18503797
is it weird that I'm mildly pissed off at how even a retarded native is still a master at reading names?

>> No.18503951

Has anyone tried using lingodeer?
Unlike memrise, lingodeer teaches grammar, but I don't know if it's good.

>> No.18503952

>>18503950
a retarded native is without a doubt better than me at everything regarding this language

>> No.18503955

>>18503951
Ive messed with it a little, its fun and I prefer it to duolingo since, yeah, it does go into grammar.

for some reason I dont play with those apps as much as I should

>> No.18503962

>>18503951
it's better than duolingo, but it's still slower than learning by just reading

>> No.18503979

Why is it easier to find how how things are pronounced by searching for their translation than their kanji? Like it takes too long to come up with the right kanji.

>> No.18503985

Alright boys I've hit two months. I feel good about kana and my kanji and vocab studies are progressing smoothly. I know roughly 700 words and 500 kanji. I'm looking to start reading, what LNs would you recommend?

>> No.18503996

>>18503979
何について話していますか
バカ外人

>> No.18503999

>>18503996
いやべつに

>> No.18504001

>>18503985
はなひら
>>18503979
It's not. Try drawing the shit on translate.google.

>> No.18504006

>>18504001
Takes longer than typing what I know it means into jisho, plus I have to copy paste it into a real dictionary to get a real definition.

>> No.18504008

>>18503226
>魔
>露
>鑑
>籠
>國
>hard
can we get someone who actually knows japanese to remake this

>> No.18504014

>>18504006
>plus I have to copy paste it into a real dictionary to get a real definition.
Get yomichan or rikai-whatever so you can just shift-hover.

>> No.18504017

>>18504014
Oh, is that how those work?

>> No.18504033

>>18503920
Flyable Heart

>> No.18504034
File: 35 KB, 200x200, 1460703735297.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504034

>>18497719
https://forum.koohii.com/thread-14982.html

草生えすぎ

>> No.18504051

>>18503797
Yeah, Proper nouns are the final boss of Japanese. Some other contenders are old people speech and pretentious light novel authors.

>> No.18504059
File: 149 KB, 1920x1080, 1492330564947.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504059

>>18504051
>pretentious light novel authors
Oh god I just know that means I'll never be able to read 西尾 維新
Any tryhards here actually watch/read Bakemonogatari raw and catch a lot of the "nuance" that all the tryhards yammer on about

>> No.18504080
File: 4 KB, 131x79, anki_2018-02-27_18-25-55.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504080

So this is my first leech card, huh?.

Usually, I deal with hard kanji by breaking them up into the simpler ones and making up a story about them. But can't quite seem to grasp this one.

What do?

>> No.18504088

>>18504080
Learn other words with similar kanji like 公園?

>> No.18504091

>>18504080
he stubbed his toe.

>> No.18504094

>>18504080
Are you getting it confused with 速い?

>> No.18504102

>>18504080
dirt in my mouth after I fell down a slide and hit a tree

>> No.18504105
File: 511 KB, 2508x3541, 1517997126633.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504105

How are the Kuru games for beginner VN's? Should I start with HaruKuru or NatsuKuru?

>> No.18504120

>>18504051
>>18504059
What about food terms?

>> No.18504127

>>18504034
I've actually written and passed JLPT N5 and N4 which is a probably a lot more than most people posting here have done.

>> No.18504131

>>18504080
It reminds me of 速い except it has that little stub, or a "toe"ー>とおい. After you've walked a FAR distance, your TOE starts to hurt.

>> No.18504139

>>18504127
go away phil

>> No.18504181
File: 40 KB, 307x512, 1494149573448.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504181

>>18504094
No, but I guess the radical at the bottom might be throwing me off. I'll try to do what >>18504088 says.

>>18504091
>>18504102
Forgot to say that I make them related to the meaning, Distant in this case: "Distant [lands]"
I'd like to extend the story, but don't know what the bottom radicals mean.

>>18504131
Ok this might just work. Thank you all.

>> No.18504204

>>18504181
It's means place or position

>> No.18504251

>>18502792
I often notice it in my mature cards that have 3m+ interval. Not exactly forgetting meanings but rather readings (for example, I had been reading 辛抱 as しんぽう before I came across the word yesterday in my reviews. It's a simple word that I see very often but there is no way I'll be checking all the readings of words I read), some of the meanings and the meanings tend to be vaguer overall. Anki is our savior.

>> No.18504277
File: 40 KB, 250x250, 250px-760Bewear.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504277

I want to describe the pokemon in pic related as:

"A big friend / Big friend" (literally physically imposing)

should I go with

大友達 or  大きな友達

its for an animation I'm making

thank you for your help

>> No.18504284

>>18504008
Those kanjis look cool and they are a lot more useful than kanjis like 齾,䯂, 龗, 鱻

>> No.18504318

>>18504277
>大友達 or  大きな友達

おおともだちっていうにほんごは

ないよ

おおきなともだち

はmemeだよ

>> No.18504333

>>18504277
>キテルグマはおおきい

これじゃだめなの?

>> No.18504336

>>18504318
>おおきなともだち
>はmemeだよ

まじで?? よかったない。。。

>> No.18504385

>>18503797
Fuck you, lol.

>> No.18504392

>>18504080
Simple. Just be born with autism granting you a semi-photographic memory like me.

>> No.18504397
File: 1.28 MB, 2272x1704, 1508516908769.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504397

I added some stuff to the resources guide about running VNs in Wine. Hopefully it will be of help to some people. You will have to look on the Google Docs page for it since the maintainer appears to be kill.

I had added the info about 2 weeks ago actually but just updated the Winetricks tip bit with some more specific info about what exactly to install based on a post on the AnimeBytes forums.

If anyone who knows more than me has any extra info which they think should be included, please add it.

>> No.18504398

>>18503930
does this author intentionally write his shit in the most obtuse manner possible

>> No.18504413

>>18504398
>does this author intentionally write his shit in the most obtuse manner possible
Yeah, just like most "high literature" authors.

>> No.18504422

How long does it take to get to a point where I can read VN's quickly and for fun? I'm just starting out and reading takes so long and is such a hassle, but I already have a backlog of like 20 VN's that I can't wsit to read

>> No.18504426

>>18504080

Literally do nothing different. You will learn it in time properly; get the the point where you can read. In the mean time keep using the spaced repetition that anki gives you to keep drilling 遠い until it stops popping up as much.

>> No.18504429

「しんにょう」は、道や道を歩いているところを表すシンボル
だから、 道、近い、遠い、途(みち)、後退する の 退、進む、過ぎる、などは、みんな似たようなイメージを共有してる。
音読みのヒントは、右上の部品。
例えば、袁 が入っている漢字は エン と読むことが多くて、遠、園、猿、などは、同じ音読みのグループを作っている。
過、渦、禍、などは、みんな カ という音読みをする。(シ:さんずい は水のシンボルだから、渦は 訓読みだと うず。ネ:しめすへん は、神さまのシンボルだから、禍は 訓読みだと わざわい(災い、と同じような意味)

ルールが当てはまらない場合もたくさんあるから、そういうのは一個ずつ覚えていくしかないけど。

>> No.18504430

>>18504397
Hey dude, feel like maintaining a neocities site?

>> No.18504529

The Japanese restaurant that my co-workers like to go to is staffed by Vietnamese and Chinese workers, but they act like they're Japanese. When a customer walks into the store, they're trained to yell いらっしゃいませ, and it sounds completely wrong. Even my average joe boss, when he came with us, did a double-take when he heard it. Just hearing them makes me feel like I'm going to die from second-hand embarrassment.

Fuck what Matt says about learning pitch accent in your second year. I'm going to learn this shit now.

>> No.18504541
File: 24 KB, 466x400, とおい.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504541

猿のつくりと

遠のなかみは

ちがうんじゃないのかなあとおもうよ

>> No.18504585
File: 26 KB, 219x222, 1517205651995.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504585

>>18504422

>> No.18504596

>>18504541
気づかなかった… ありがとう妹

>> No.18504601

>>18504596
ちょっとしらべてみるよ

100ねんくらいまえのかんじだと

おなじなのかもしれない

>> No.18504641
File: 16 KB, 328x285, s98.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504641

むかしのかたちは

こんな感じの漢字

ってかいてある

げんけい
 原型 がなかったよ

>> No.18504665
File: 53 KB, 655x569, さる.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504665

猿のほうは、なんかいろいろ変

むかしのにほんとか

たいわんとかだと

ほかのもじがあったっぽい

>> No.18504674

>>18504422
>>18504585
10,000 hours, just like everything else.

>> No.18504679
File: 1.71 MB, 1893x969, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504679

Can anyone help me figure out what's wrong with ITH? It was fine before but once the camera started to pan up, it started doing this weird double-text thing

>> No.18504698

>>18504679
nevermind, i found an 'auto-suppress repetition' option in the settings, had to restart ITH for it to work, if anyone else ever has this issue

>> No.18504760

>>18504430
Sorry, but I'd have to decline, for several reasons. Biggest concern is associating myself in any way with the CoR, given that I have the misfortune of being an EUSSR citizen. So much as linking to copyrighted material is enough to land me a multiple year prison sentence, and when you account for just how much copyrighted shit is in the CoR I would probably never see the light of day again. There are also several copyrighted things linked in the resources guide and main guide so taking ownership even of just those pages is out of the question for me.

Someone who lives in a free country and not under the thumb of a foreign, unelected, bureaucratic regime will have to take it over instead.

Other reasons for declining would include that someone with my relatively mediocre level of Japanese ability has no business dictating what should and shouldn't be included in the guide. Also, I tend to get really autistic over this sort of thing and would probably waste all my time tweaking stuff that nobody cares about in order to appease my assburgers instead of actually spending my time learning Japanese.

>> No.18504825

>>18504529
>いらっしゃいませ
More like "やさませー".

>> No.18504935

How come, at least in VN, sometimes characters refer to each other as 野郎, even if theyre close? Isnt it an insult?

>> No.18504953

>>18504935
Woah, why would close acquaintances refer to each other with insults? That's so weird!

>> No.18504962

>>18504953
Don't pretend like that's a common thing, only australians do that

>> No.18504969

>>18504962
No they just do it with strangers.

>> No.18504974

>>18504953
well when i said close i probably mispoke
like friends, but not close friends? the two characters in question were a 先輩 and 後輩, and the latter referred to the former with 野郎 in an action-sense
Like blahblahを野郎

>> No.18504978

>>18504974
That's a form of やる, not 野郎.

>> No.18504987
File: 1.44 MB, 3120x4160, IMG_20180228_175311.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18504987

>>18500431

>> No.18505002

>>18504987
This should be obvious, but that brush is far too fucking big for that size of brush writing. I'm also confused why you are brush writing like it's a pencil.

>> No.18505039

>>18504541
猿と遠も 形声字だから

そもそも 袁と爰は 同声でなかなか意味のない文字だから
 替えても あまり 意味が変わりませんだと おもう

>> No.18505071
File: 3.23 MB, 4160x1604, IMG_20180228_181706.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18505071

>>18505002

>> No.18505082 [DELETED] 

>>18504978
But it had the kanji for 野郎
Id go and find it but i already turned off the game

>> No.18505084

>>18505039
形声字・・・よめない

同声・・・よめない

>>18505071
みじゃなくておのれ

>> No.18505163

There's this example sentence:
>彼の弱点はスタミナが足りないところです。
>His weakness is that he lacks stamina.
Does ところです emphasize he's currently lacking stamina?

>> No.18505320
File: 23 KB, 640x480, 1487776914676.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18505320

I now kind of understand why Japanese need kanji. I'm struggling with vocab cards that doesn't use them.
I can read them perfectly, is just that I keep forgetting their meaning, while I associate the Kanji with the meaning of the vocab.

Maybe the fact that I'm ESL is holding me back somehow?

>> No.18505401

>>18505163
>emphasize
no
>彼の弱点はスタミナが足りないです。
is grammatically incorrect. "that" might be the counterpart. (correct me if wrong)
His weakness is his lack of stamina.
-> 彼の弱点は、スタミナの足りなさ です。

>> No.18505412

>>18505320
べんりでしょう

アルファベットにも常用漢字

混ぜ込みませんか?

2000文字くらい

>> No.18505855

>>18504398
Mareni's writing is top-notch but the stories are shit.

>> No.18506038

>>18505855
Does his name refer to the frequency of him writing something good?

>> No.18506351

>>18497719
Do you have to write お前らは or does the ら in お前ら already function as a sort of "は"?

>> No.18506441

>>18506351
ら only makes it plural. It's the same as writing お前たち. You need the は.
However お前 is fairly casual, so it's not surprising if particles are omitted in such context.

>> No.18506510
File: 1.62 MB, 1920x1080, [AnimeRG] Chobits - 22 - Chi Wears And Takes Off [1080p] [x265] [pseudo]_[00:21:00.326].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18506510

Does "Minna no Nihongo" cover informal Japanese or will I have to find a new textbook when I finish it?
Even in the vocabulary section of the last lesson (50) they still give verbs in their polite form (-ます).

>> No.18506524
File: 207 KB, 450x338, 967012-bigthumbnail.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18506524

When did this thread become such a den of RTK fags? Is kanji koohii shilling here? I thought KKLC was /ourbook/...

>> No.18506623

>>18504059
Nisio Isin just looks pretentious because of shaft, his books are easy to read.

>> No.18506656

>>18506510
>Even in the vocabulary section of the last lesson (50) they still give verbs in their polite form
Jesus. Drop that shit.

>> No.18506659

>>18504529
I went to a restaurant like that in Chicago too, the whole staff were Latinos and hipsters and they all pronounced it like fucking Texans it was driving me nuts. And I know the owners were Japanese and were making them say it but god what a dumb idea. And I don't know who this Matt guy is but the key to pronunciation is literally just listening a lot and listening to what you say and how you say it and trying to get your syllables and tones to match. https://youtu.be/5OC1D_ZNej4

>> No.18506692

the only good japanese restaurants are the ones where the staff yell へいらっしゃいっ

>> No.18506711

I'm debating quitting.

Even though I've only been studying for six months, substantially improving at Japanese is really time consuming. As a NEET just out of college, I need to get a job, I should volunteer, do all sorts of stuff. I don't plan on moving to Japan, either.

>> No.18506741

>>18506711
You're not a true neet you poser

>> No.18506778

>>18506656
Well, MNN has LOTS of exercises and the audio recordings for almost each of them + vocabulary, which helps a lot, plus it doesn't annoy me with Hepburn, kana and kanji are used from day one. I haven't found a better textbook yet. Besides jumping between textbooks is difficult for a total newfag.

>> No.18506869

>>18506711

Thanks for the blog update, subscribed.

>> No.18506879

>>18506778
Exercises are designed to waste your time. What you need is something that will help you get into reading/listening.
I'm not sure how far minna no nihongo has taken you so I would skim through Tae Kim real quick in case you're missing any super basic stuff, and then see if you can't jump into reading actual Japanese or picking it up from anime. Even subbed anime is fine if you are making sure to take in the Japanese. Just look up stuff you don't know.

>> No.18507014

>>18506778
>exercises
When will this meme die?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmIa1v1BNkY

>> No.18507094

>>18507014
At least conjugation exercises are important so you drill in the difference between かった and かいた, etc.

>> No.18507204

>>18507094
No they aren't.

>> No.18507205

>>18507094
It doesn't work like that
It only becomes natural once you hear the conjugations a lot

>> No.18507238

>>18506711
its ok thats the path most people should prolly choose imo
no matter how much intellectual knowledge you gain there will always be a large amount of instinctual knowledge you will never gain on your journey to become one with nihongo

>> No.18507544
File: 732 KB, 1366x768, Screenshot (116).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18507544

What is the kanji below キレイ?

>> No.18507548

>>18507544
Looks like 優しい to me.

>> No.18507769

>>18507544
やさしいあまさにつつまれている

だよ

がんばれおにいちゃん

>> No.18507969

>>18506038
I haven't read much of Mareni and I don't his works but they aren't bad. Rail-soft VNs is just something that deserves attention because it's very unusal prose for VNs. However, I don't recommend to read them if you can't do it without looking up words often because his writing is lengthy.

>> No.18508075
File: 16 KB, 480x452, 1517080085711.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18508075

>tfw you first parsed out a sentence of "wild" Japanese without having to refer back to any resources.

>> No.18508156

あめだー

あめすごい

>> No.18508179

Reps are getting easier with time
Concepts are hard as fuck to remember though, and often I either remember the reading or the meaning, but not always both
Is that just the way it is?

>> No.18508209

>>18508179

Think of it this way, at the end of the day there's only concept you need to UNDERSTAND UNDERSTAND

THE CONCEPT OF

LOVE

>> No.18508233

>>18508209
アノン君, 私...

>> No.18508242

>>18508233
..はゲイ

>> No.18508263

>>18508242
(⌒_⌒;)
死んで地獄に行くことを願ってるよ

>> No.18508381

センキューフォープレイング
またチャレンジしてね

>> No.18508392

How is Dracu-Riot! ?

>> No.18508419

ろくじだー

あされんいく

>> No.18508511

>>18508392
Pretty fun. Yuzusoft does mostly vanilla moe games, but they have decent writing for the genre and likable characters.

>> No.18508540

>>18508511
Thanks, I will probably give it a try.

>> No.18508718

Why do people sometimes use らしい when talking about things that they have no reason to doubt? For example, I was listening to the podcast, 贔屓贔屓, and they were talking about a new movie coming out soon about Ryuichi Sakamoto. Kimura said 坂本龍一のドキュメンタリー映画が公開されています, and Sakota appended to the end of her statement by saying らしいんですよ, to which Kimura said はい、知らなかった.
What's the nuance here? Is he just implying that she recently found out about it? I've noticed this before but I don't know why it's used like that.

>> No.18508738

>>18508718
らしい is not about doubt, it's about the nature of the supposition.

>> No.18508819

>>18508511
how was that recent Yuzu game? The one with the sword and all the sword maidens?

>> No.18508932

Why does 老若男女 sound so ridiculous? How can they say it with a straight face?

>> No.18508990
File: 18 KB, 620x355, img.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18508990

にゃにゃめにゃにゃじゅうにゃにゃどのにゃらびでにゃくにゃくいにゃにゃくにゃにゃはんにゃにゃだいにゃんにゃくにゃらべてにゃがにゃがめ

>> No.18509051

>>18508990
Pls explain
>>18508718
I can't understand their dialogue but they sound like they have a cute and amiable dynamic

>> No.18509089

>>18506524
Matt's impact.

>> No.18509227

>>18508738
I understand that (admittedly my wording was poor there), but you didn't answer my question. らしい means "seemingly," right? Then why do people say "It seems like Sakamoto Ryuichi's new documentary is open to the public" instead of just saying "Sakamoto Ryuichi's new documentary is open to the public" ?

>> No.18509242

>>18509051
It's a really fantastic podcast, I highly recommend it once you become able to understand a decent portion of what they're saying.

>> No.18509252

>>18509227
stop being bound by english

>> No.18509316

>>18509227
You see an old, but completely trustworthy, news article from 2015 about parks opening in 2016.

>It seems like they opened a couple parks.

You go to the parks. Only one of them got opened, the others are stuck in zoning law hell.

Does that help?

I could go on about らしい for several paragraphs, but it's not really worth it. You're trying to figure it out like it's formulaic, and it might help, but what about the several thousand other assorted grammar points you have to learn? It would take years to learn how they're used. Just get a good picture of what things mean and then focus all your effort on reading a lot.

>> No.18509323

士 has a big puffy chest,
土 is the earth with a cross sticking out, or a flower

easy

>> No.18509339
File: 106 KB, 1080x2220, Screenshot_20180228-170416.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18509339

No one told me that anki had such exquisite taste.

>> No.18509362

>>18509339
> no pictures

You're missing out on some cuties. 「もっと」ちゃんがとてもかわいい

>> No.18509370

what are you all going to do with your moon knowledge when the japanese population dies out in a few decades and the language becomes extinct?

>> No.18509376

>>18509370
Translate newly discovered doujins pulled from the ruins of Japan for money.

>> No.18509377

>>18509370
今と違いはない。エロゲを読むつもり

>> No.18509405

>>18509370
Fap to what's left.

>> No.18509406

>>18508932
I think it's quite pleasing both to say and to hear.

>> No.18509413

>>18508932
Can't help but say ろうにゃくにゃんにょ。

>> No.18509419

>>18509413
I have no such problem.

>> No.18509436

>>18509370
Start a weeaboo ethnostate. Only whito piggu will be allowed though.

>> No.18509454

>>18509419
その問題がにゃい?

>> No.18509470

>>18509316
Thanks for the response, I figured it was something like that but thought it'd be worth asking anyway. If you've got the time I'd enjoy reading what you've got to say about it, in any case.
>>18509252
Be more like >>18509316

>> No.18509475

>>18509370
I wrote a paper on Japan's declining population, at the current rate the last Japanese person will be born sometime in the first few centuries of the 3000's, I think I'll be fine.

>> No.18509493

>>18509470
dont tell me how to be i dont owe you a fuckin thing mate

>> No.18509507
File: 47 KB, 510x339, 1499091246682.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18509507

>>18509493

>> No.18509578

>>18509507
この笑い顔・・絶対に守る!

>> No.18509706

Is there any sort of logic behind the 70 fucking meanings that 掛かる has or am I just supposed to memorize them all?

>> No.18509733

>>18509706
おいらにはなしかけてない。

>> No.18509746
File: 91 KB, 616x1035, you will never learn english.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18509746

>>18509706
>am I just supposed to memorize them all
That would be dumb indeed. Memorize them as expressions as you meed them, like 腰をかける.

>> No.18509777

>>18509746
>as you meed them
what did he mean by this

>> No.18509782

>>18509777
It's a combination of meet and need. I thought it was obvious.

>> No.18509877

>>18509782
Thanks anon. Thanon.

>> No.18509908

Is there any sort of logic behind the 70 fucking meanings that "set" has or am I just supposed to memorize them all?

>> No.18510203

why learn 70 meanings when you can learn 1 universal feeling

>> No.18510210

古いCASIO電子辞書を手に入れて、友人にあげるつもりだが、追加コンテンツをネットからダウンロードできる?広辞苑第六版とか。

>> No.18510365

たぶんno

>> No.18510392

is there a way to generate a list of known + mature words in anki

>> No.18510407

>>18510392
copy your deck, browse/sort by interval, delete new words, export deck as text file

>> No.18510414
File: 1 KB, 224x32, anki2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18510414

What's your rep/hour?

>> No.18510450

>>18510414
520 per hour.

>> No.18510452
File: 91 KB, 720x720, yui4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18510452

>>18510414
zero

>> No.18510574

>>18510414
Was something like 100 reps per hour before I dropped Anki because it was making me tired and I didn't see how I could go faster because I developed a lasting, day-in-day-out headache from just that. I just read things now and google the kanji I can't read. I have more trouble with grammar anyway.

>> No.18510637

>>18510414
Do people actually spend this much time on anki on a daily basis?

>> No.18510684

>>18510414
i've gotten about 680 in 38 minutes the past 4 days in a row
either i'm super consistent or the thing is messed up

>> No.18510685

>>18510637
People who don't adjust the starting ease, yeah. Making the card appear more often in the early days means you spend less time on that card later on because it's simply more ingrained. But most people leave the default starting ease and get fucked over for it, especially since the guide barely mentions how important this Anki setting really is in the long term.

>> No.18510754 [DELETED] 

>>18510685
redpill me what do i change

>> No.18510782

>>18510754
http://www.jonkenpo.net/analytics-anki-starting-ease/

This guy here screwed around with the setting to figure out what was what, and based on what he says, I reckon anywhere from 175%-200% to be optimal when weighing time spent against cards retained. Default has it at 250%, which is way too high. So I guess you can start setting it at 175%, and gradually raise it to 200% as you get more comfortable.

>> No.18510868

>>18510782
Could it be that your average ease is a good indicator of what the default ease should be provided you've been doing Anki for awhile? I've been doing Anki for over two years now without ever messing with the default settings besides removing the limit to reviews and my average ease is 192%.

>> No.18510902

>>18510868
If so, I wasn't aware of it. But maybe. It's either that, or the place you downloaded Anki from was from a guy that had tweeked the setting before uploading it, making his changes your ''defaults'' when you downloaded it. Or maybe you changed it accidentally or simply don't remember doing so.

>> No.18510948

>>18510902
he's talking about the avg ease of your cards over time. you can see it at the bottom of your stats page

>> No.18511001

>>18510948
Oh in that case, average ease may have something to with your failure rate. My starting ease is at 180%, and my average ease is at 211% (so higher). If that guy's starting ease is at 250% and his average ease is 192% (so lower), I'm thinking that based on his failure rate, Anki tells him that his starting ease should be lowered, while mine would be telling me to raise it. This is speculation, I'm not entirely sure what Anki takes into account when calculating average ease, I'll have to look into that.

>> No.18511171

>>18497719
I've kinda finished Tae-Kim basic grammar chapter with vocabulary and stuff. Shall I start reading Yotsubato and refer to more grammar along the way or shall I continue Tae-Kim effort?

My problem with grammar study is that it's kinda boring. I think it would be interesting to read and take notes along the way even if it means I'd spend 1 hour on a sentence.

>> No.18511184
File: 62 KB, 658x258, hard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18511184

>>18511001
>failure rate
Nah, that's just me picking 'hard' most of the time. Meaning that the direction to lower the ease is coming from me.

>> No.18511211

>>18511171
Do whatever feels more fun. As long as you keep at it, you will eventually get there. The only difference that different approaches make is that one might be a bit faster than the other, but none of them are wrong. But if the "faster" approach makes you burn out and quit, it wasn't better after all.

>> No.18511219

>>18511001
>My starting ease is at 180%, and my average ease is at 211% (so higher).
That means you press "easy" way too fucking much or your stats are infected with other data.

>> No.18511237

>>18510685
>>18510782
Thanks for discussing that, I'm going to drop my setting down to 175 and see how it goes

>> No.18511240

>>18511211
Thank you for your advice.

>> No.18511266

>>18511171
im a couple weeks ahead of you. firstly yotsuba is fine to read early as possible. the sentences are extremely simple compared to other reading content. your bottleneck will probably be vocab

most of what you read on tae kim wont be retained. youll probably have to look up bits of grammar you actually see in the wild

>> No.18511275

>>18511171
Don't worry about trying to understand every sentence and every grammar point perfectly, because, spoiler alert, you won't. As long as you can identify what vocabulary is being used and mentally note what types of changes are being made to it, that's a good place to be. Grammar understanding comes with repeated exposure and absorption. Thats why I love manga and VNs for learning because you have more context to help with understanding meaning. And if you stick with your studying, you'll revisit that first book in a year's time and be amazed at how different the experience of reading it is the second time around

>> No.18511312
File: 298 KB, 1280x443, ざあざあ.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18511312

>>18510782
http://www.jonkenpo.net/progress-report-1013d1248hr2329vocab1621kanji2312sentences/

>In my last report, I mentioned that I was still planning on taking the jlpt n3 test, but almost immediately changed course. Instead, I decided to finish RTK and then start native media. I just felt that not finishing RTK, I would still have too many unknown kanji which would make studying native material and vocabulary too inefficient.
>I currently have 350 unseen kanji(there are some suspended leeches). I’m adding 98/week, so I’m hoping to finish just before the holidays and my Japan trip. I’d really like to start studying some of my survival Japanese in order to understand as much as possible while I’m there.
>I’ve been spending all of my time on getting through RTK, so I haven’t made any attempts to read japanese. I’m expecting I’ll be able to understand a lot more written Japanese once I finish RTK.

1013days
1248hours
2329 vocab
1621kanji
2312sentences.

>> No.18511326

>>18511312
So they're like pure dekinai, aka don't listen to anything they say about Anki or whatever.

>> No.18511352
File: 587 KB, 1000x773, 1512584013712.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18511352

>>18511312
>Instead, I decided to finish RTK and then start native media. I just felt that not finishing RTK, I would still have too many unknown kanji which would make studying native material and vocabulary too inefficient.
>I’ve been spending all of my time on getting through RTK, so I haven’t made any attempts to read japanese. I’m expecting I’ll be able to understand a lot more written Japanese once I finish RTK.
1000 hours holy shit

>> No.18511360

>>18511312
>1013days
>He is still doing RTK
>Still hasn't read a single book
Holy shit

>> No.18511361
File: 47 KB, 707x331, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18511361

>>18511219
Try again hombre.

>> No.18511362

>>18511326
The person might have a lot of useful stuff to say about Anki settings but it certainly hasn't been something he has taken advantage of if they are indeed useful tweaks.
The Japanese language learning community must have thousands of nukemarines hidden away ready to spill a decade worth of spaghetti at a moments notice.

>> No.18511366

>>18511361
Yeah your stats are fucked. Anki never, ever, ever raises the ease of cards behind your back. It should be 180% or lower.

>> No.18511367

>>18511361
Post your 'deck life' stats.

>> No.18511379
File: 48 KB, 694x331, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18511379

>>18511367
Here
>>18511366
It didn't, I lowered starting ease percentage as I said previously.

>> No.18511385

>>18511312
This reminded me of Nukemarine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSvksTu70zA

>7 years worth of of videos
>And he is still doing Memrise
I have no words.

>> No.18511388

>>18511379
Okay, so your stats are infected with other data.

>> No.18511399

>>18511388
They aren't, everything seems on point based on what is happening day to day when I do my reps, and all stats reflect what I'm doing on the program. I don't see why you would be so sure that my stats are fucked.

>> No.18511403

>>18511399
Your 180% ease stats are infected by the cards that you added before setting your ease to 180%.

>> No.18511413

>>18511403
If by infected you mean it averages out my card data, then yeah. Eventually the cards I did at 250% starting ease will only be 1% of my card total, and pretty much won't be reflected in the stats. So I don't mind really, I hadn't done that many before switching it, and I already knew most cards in the first 1k anyway.

>> No.18511439

I'm kind of worried that I won't be able to find things emotionally moving when reading in Japanese vs. when reading in English. Like I'll always be trying too hard to understand what's going on to actually feel anything.

>> No.18511462

>>18511439
It's actually the opposite, things are more amazing in a language you have a hard time understanding but still understand.

>> No.18511477

>>18511439
This >>18511462
I heard 「夢を見んだよ、生まれた時のこと」in a song and thought "ah, how poetic sounding" even though it's probably nothing special.

>> No.18511513
File: 235 KB, 1280x914, 5a3789ef.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18511513

>>18511439
Reading a few chapters of anything by Amano Kozue will immediately cure you of that worry. I wish I had a better image to post but I own the books and don't have scans

>> No.18511526

>>18511513
Yeah, her manga are とっても素敵.

>> No.18511560

>>18511439
Because you read in a vain just consuming material without an afterthought.

>> No.18511579

>>18511439
Same as others have said, I find things more emotionally impactful in Japanese, whether they're happy or sad. Maybe it's because I've heard every expression of happiness or sadness so many times in English that they've lost their impact.

>> No.18511588

>>18511579
I still find exciting new emotional phrases in punk music.

>> No.18511596

>>18511588
My guy.

>> No.18511711

>>18511385
A コーヒー thread was posted earlier by some redditor trying to advertise his app where people were white knighting for that nukemarine dude after someone mocked him. Funny but sad in a way.

>> No.18511726

To the people who say drop anki and just read: how do you remember new kanji? Do you just hope you'll end up seeing it enough that it will eventually stick? Do you use context clues to remember things you otherwise wouldn't? Or do you just have a photographic memory and are giving everyone else bad advice?

>> No.18511739

>>18511726
My memory is literally retarded and I don't have problems just reading.

>> No.18511745
File: 1.73 MB, 4160x3120, IMG_20180301_141924.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18511745

Take a bet

>> No.18511751

>>18511745
180/180?

>> No.18511758

>>18511745
169

>> No.18511767

>>18511726
It's more interesting how they remember readings of the words. I can understand why you wouldn't use anki for "straight" written languages like english (even though you won't pronounce words correctly you still can read anything) but in japanese you often how no idea how to read a word and if you just rely on kanji without voicing things you're fucked up by default because there are tons of words written with both kana and kanji as well as words using different kanjis.

>> No.18511799
File: 1.63 MB, 4160x3120, 1519886068964903832576.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18511799

>>18511758
Close enough

>> No.18511815

>playing nukige since itd easy to read
>start doing the do during an h scene
>finish
>suddenly have no desire to continue reading
does this happen to anyone else

>> No.18511818

>>18511799
今日から貴方は先生

>> No.18511832

>>18511818
さようでございます

>> No.18511855

>>18511767
>>18511739 here. I actually do have a few memorization techniques that I use while reading. To start with, I enjoy reading things that are difficult for me to read, and what I'm about to say isn't good advice if you're not like me.

First, and this is the most specific to my retarded memory, whenever I had to look up a word in a voiced sentence in the VN, I don't continue to the next line until I can reproduce (in my head) the pronunciation of the entire sentence without using a dictionary, or until I get bored and want to move on. The bored part actually happens, because like I said, I literally have a retarded memory.

Anyway, this makes it so that, not only am I forcing myself to be able to produce (in my head) the pronunciation of the word from memory, I'm also doing it within the context of whatever phrase it's in, just in case it's idiomatic or there's a collocation.

Second, I go out of my way to do activities that use words I don't know, and don't have any furigana or voicing, like RPGs with lots of mechanical jargon. This is less about learning individual words and more about making sure my brain doesn't fossilize by adapting to the writing style of whatever I'm reading right now. If it weren't difficult it wouldn't be helpful for this, and containing words I don't know forces it to be difficult.

I have no idea how efficient it was to drop Anki, but I'm making more progress than I was when I was using it. However, when I used it, my reading ability was still quite shit, so there's a good chance that just being better overall is responsible for me making more progress. In any case, dropping Anki entirely will not cause you to stop learning, and if someone is already at the point where they can read something they want but they're still struggling with Anki, I recommend they just stop using it.

>> No.18511875

>>18511855
>I go out of my way to do activities that use words I don't know, and don't have any furigana or voicing, like RPGs
Are these all pc rpgs with a text hooker? If not, how are you finding out what the kanji are?

>> No.18511880

>>18511875
I look them up the hard way.

>> No.18511894

>>18511880
Are you at the point where you rarely have to do that? If not that sounds unnecessarily time consuming.

>> No.18511901

do you guys translate h-scenes when you're reading or do you just skip through them?

>> No.18511902

>>18511894
I have to do it once in a while for a few days whenever I play a new game but honestly it doesn't take that long. No idea if that has to do with whatever my skill level is, so your mileage may vary.

>> No.18511906

>>18511901
i click through them and if there's any words i don't quickly recognize i might bother to look them up. mostly just want to be able to understand any lewd jokes or references, the actual sex is never interesting to me.

>> No.18511911

>>18511902
Oh okay, that's not so bad then. I hope I can be at that level someday.

>> No.18512021

>>18511906
im not really sure what to do but i guess i wont place too much importance on it

>> No.18512036

>>18512021
it's really just a matter of "how much do you care about reading about sex," isn't it? if you're interested in fuck scenes, read em and learn how to read em. if you're always gonna ctrl through them anyway, why waste that effort when you can put it towards more basic stuff first and learn "kyahn oniichan my manko feels subarashii look how your seieki is filling me up my uterus is going dopudopu" later.

>> No.18512062

>>18511726
First of all, I think that normal people should just use Anki, but if Anki is unbearable because you're shit for brains as is my case and you still want to learn Japanese, then you end up doing these mental gymnastics.

So in my case, I try to remember the word foremost phonetically and in context, and when I meet that word again somewhere, I think I just guess it(?) because it makes sense for that word to be there and the constituting kanji partially suggest the reading. I don't do well at remembering the kanji visually, but I can remember the sound of the word. I look at new words as a chance to learn about the kanji more and to commit my senses to that abstraction.

When I feel comfortable with the kanji in the word after having seen it enough times--sometimes right away--, I go to a dictionary and read all about it. If I get that far, I rarely forget the character again, because then I know it to have so many (not always really used but still listed) readings and other things that make sense about it that I can all consolidate in one mental point.

>>18511855
>First, and this is the most specific to my retarded memory, whenever I had to look up a word in a voiced sentence in the VN, I don't continue to the next line until I can reproduce (in my head) the pronunciation of the entire sentence without using a dictionary
I do exactly the same, anon.

(Essentially a blogpost ahead) I feel that it's a waste not to be encountering new kanji all the time so I'm constantly trying to read things laden with kanji just for the sake of it. If I don't see new kanji I tend to drop what I'm reading because it feels easy and boring. Unfortunately, I'm not that great at reading kanji-dense things either, due to getting tired and still again bored, and although the amount of kanji I've properly accumulated over the past two years surpasses 2000 for sure, I never spend any significant time getting comprehensible input, and my sense of grammar is dogshit because I only read in small chunks and very inefficiently. For example my sense of nonstraightforward and advanced grammar is so defective that parts of >>18503930 sounded ungrammatical to me until I cleared them up even though the vocabulary did not particularly surprise me. My March resolution is thus to read something consistently comprehensible and to stick to it.

>> No.18512089

>>18511799
あなたの成績を見て、私は口をポカーンと開けてしまった。
あなたは優秀ですね。

>> No.18512159

How the hell do you stick to one VN when you just start reading? The starts of these games all feel boring and I keep hopping around instead of dedicating myself to a single one.

>> No.18512329

>>18512062
>I feel that it's a waste not to be encountering new kanji all the time so I'm constantly trying to read things laden with kanji just for the sake of it. If I don't see new kanji I tend to drop what I'm reading because it feels easy and boring.
What the fuck. So you can't even read decently but you care about kanjis? Why not just learn like 5 new kanjis every day if you really want to do it. I think something is fundamentally wrong with your assessment of kanjis in japanese.

>> No.18512383

>>18511799
あのんつかってるの

にほんのなにぺん?

>> No.18512419

>>18512329
I can't just learn 5 kanji a day, they require words and they have multiple senses as constituents.

Well if it's a normally written VN or your typical manga I have no trouble reading it, except that I get anxious when Japanese is intelligible so I promptly switch to reading about traditional Japanese woodworking instead just in case I might need that. I have a few VNs I dropped (put on hold) because I didn't see anything that confuse me for a chapter and a half so I thought they had baby tier writing in them to which I can come back later.

>> No.18512438

>>18512383
いや
日本ものっていうか
ごく普通で どこでもある
リサイクルシャープペン だよ

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/e-stationery/s_pilot_628/

>> No.18512451

>>18512419
Why not just read whatever you like? It doesn't make sense if you just "hunt" and learn "hard" kanjis and never use it in reality.

>> No.18512462

does exporting my deck to a file also attaches the tags I made to them?

>> No.18512470 [SPOILER]  [DELETED] 
File: 500 KB, 1024x576, 1519899094155.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18512470

>>18512462
for referenece

>> No.18512471

>>18512462
Yes, except for CSV mode, which only does if you check the box that asks you.

>> No.18512506
File: 95 KB, 580x679, 1418329896524.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18512506

>>18512419
>I get anxious when Japanese is intelligible so I promptly switch to reading about traditional Japanese woodworking instead just in case I might need that.

>> No.18512538

>>18512451
Unfortunately I live to do things the wrong way.

I did that for a year, I read what I liked only, but I cared only about hentai doujinshi, and you ultimately don't learn very much from that, so during 2017 I've managed to expand my vocabulary by reading things with simple grammar but unrestrained vocabulary, that were often boring but I persevered.

So yeah, as I wrote in a previous post, I decided for March and on that I'll go back to my VNs, because frankly they -were- interesting and I am no longer frenzied about new kanji because they've become rare enough anyway. I do wish to increase my complex grammatical fluency but I will hope it will come naturally. Thanks for reading my mentally challenged nonsense and my condolences.

>> No.18512570

>>18512438
ごめんチクワのことかんがえてた

>> No.18512879

>>18512538
Do you use Anki to mine vocabulary? Can you post your kanji grid for all of this autistic reading?

>> No.18512886

>>18512538
I feel like I'm starting to have a similar issue but with grammar and listening

Instead of sticking to something simple and nice close to my level I can't stop opening rakugo videos and getting pissed when I can't make anything out, or now that someone posted >>18503930 I'm having trouble suppressing the urge to go download that VN and see if I can't decipher what's going on

>>18511726
>>18512062
I used anki to expose myself to a bunch of kanji instead of drilling vocab, and while it was kind of tangent to actual japanese and most of what I learned ended up needing to be "relearned" through reading anyway, it was still a decent help in recognizing kanji and I think it trained me in remembering new ones

Right now I can't stand doing anki, so I haven't touched it for years and I'm one of those "just read" people, but I do have that initial push from anki to help with kanji specifically

I don't think anki for kanji is the best course of action or even a good one, but I get the sense that kanji differs from regular language input pretty drastically, so the "read more" advice is kinda tough to apply to the visual appearance of kanji if you don't have some kind of internal mechanism built for them beforehand. Or apply the system of looking every individual kanji up.

>> No.18513113

>>18512879
No, and my attempt at using Anki for vocab was brief. I'd love to see my own kanji grid. I might be close to 3000, which is quite short of the educated adult average of 3500-4000, so it makes sense that I don't really know Japanese yet even in terms of kanji.

>>18512886
>Instead of sticking to something simple and nice close to my level I can't stop opening rakugo videos and getting pissed
Well sometimes you just have to do things the right way for once and experience something closer to success! It's just one of the ways in which by foresight one may reap a reward unknown to the short-sighted.

I learnt a tiny bit of Chinese in the Traditional script some years before starting Japanese, but the actual Chinese language did not enamour me so I mostly practised the script because I loved it. That was my entry into kanji, just writing them. Thanks to that I am still aware that 当 is a simplification from 當 and I am mostly aware of other such simplifications.

>> No.18513288

>>18513113
>No, and my attempt at using Anki for vocab was brief. I'd love to see my own kanji grid. I might be close to 3000
My mined vocab deck purely from manga has around 3200 kanji and I still come across unknown kanji frequently enough.

>> No.18513299

>>18513113
>educated adult average of 3500-4000
Where did you get that from? I occasionally come across kanjis that are on 5000+ frequency position even in pretty simple works. And even then, natives don't need to "know" all the kanjis because furigana helps them a lot more than you, especially on rarer words.

>> No.18513349

>>18513288
I know nearly all the Joyo kanji for sure and I definitely know a lot that are outside of that (but not enough to make up for an equally numerous amount), but that's about the best precision I can give you for now. I thought that might make for 3000, but I don't know.

>>18513299
Nowhere in particular, it's a belief from... somewhere. I could search for a statistical source, but that would be dishonest because I never looked for one. Well, it's not over until you have the entire kanji constituent of JIS memorised, probably.

>> No.18513359

>>18513299
>natives don't need to "know" all the kanjis because furigana helps them a lot more than you
not him but why would that be the case?

Furigana and context helps me to the same extent as I can imagine it helping a native

Also, thinking of kanji and kanji frequency as some kind of linear metric that corresponds to language knowledge is pretty stupid. How do you measure "knowing kanji?"
Kanji are not Japanese, they're just components of words. Like the 茫 in 茫洋 or the 斟 in 斟酌 might be in the 4000s frequency-wise but the words themselves are pretty readable and each contain another comparatively common kanji.

>> No.18513434

>>18513359
>How do you measure "knowing kanji?"
For me it's being able to read at least one word with that kanji, and which I have already seen and currently understand. Now there are obvious faults with this definition, but it's just a fun metric so why not? Kanji are real, and the trouble I face in reading them is real too, so it feels good to imagine a number that tells me of my success in surmounting it.

>> No.18513462

>>18513359
>not him but why would that be the case?
Because you don't words before you come across and remember them. And when you do, you learn them in kanji forms. But in native case you will most likely know the word itself and you don't necessarily need to remember its kanji form to understand it. Surely furigana will help you with easy words like 嬬い, 訐く or ateji like 布哇, 珈琲 but not with something 錚々, 鏘々, 淙々 (all of them are そうそう, for example)

>> No.18513515

>>18513434
>being able to read at least one word with that kanji
Yeah, so there you go. You just use kanji as an indirect way to talk about vocab knowledge. It's kind of a blurry metric.

It's hard to tell how something vague like that relates to practice. Like let's say you see one of the following written in a book:

いななく

嘶(いなな)く

嘶く

What can you say about someone who can read number 1 or 2 without looking them up, but not number 3? What about someone who can read number 2 without looking it up, but feels the need to take out a dictionary for 1 or 2?
You can see how actual language knowledge is kind of entwined with kanji, but also an entirely separate beast.

>>18513462
>Because you don't words before you come across and remember them. And when you do, you learn them in kanji forms.
And why would that be the case?
I can see that being true if you just read and never listen to Japanese, but that's unrealistic. I come across words in speech that I can assume the meaning of based on context all the time, and seeing the kanji or furigana or similar context in written form lets me put everything together just like a native. It's not any different. Furigana isn't somehow giving me less information because I'm not a native speaker. I don't need to "know" all the "kanjis" to read either.

>> No.18513523

>>18513515
> but feels the need to take out a dictionary for 1 or 2?

sorry, meant *1 or 3 here

>> No.18513546

>>18513434
>For me it's being able to read at least one word with that kanji
義訓
This is the hardest part of remembering words for me, since the kanji doesn't provide a crutch for recalling the pronunciation.

>>18513515
嘶く reminds me of 聊か.

>> No.18513595

>>18513515
>I can see that being true if you just read and never listen to Japanese, but that's unrealistic.
Why is that? I, for example, only read in japanese and never listen it (except for dialogues in VNs probably). But what's then? You don't usually hear literary words in everyday speech anyway.
>and seeing the kanji or furigana or similar context in written form lets me put everything together just like a native.
Natives always know a lot more words than you, that's why. You're either close to this abstract "native level" or you don't read japanese books.

>> No.18513651

>>18513595
>I, for example, only read in japanese and never listen it
Your loss.
Maybe if you listened to English you could write in it a little better too.

>You don't usually hear literary words in everyday speech anyway.
That's why I don't exclusively listen to everyday speech.

>Natives always know a lot more words than you, that's why.
That's obviously true, but what does that have to do with yomigana (i.e., words that neither I nor your arbitrary native can read given just the kanji)?
In that case what we have is context and kanji components, which are both pretty accessible no matter who you are, and provide a lot of information.
The last "having heard the word before" bit isn't the most of it, and isn't exclusive to natives. They don't have special powers.

>> No.18513800

>>18513651
Don't be a passive aggressive fuckwit.

>> No.18513803
File: 16 KB, 131x131, kanji9.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18513803

Here I am again, asking for help with kanji for ants. I get the general meaning of what's being said, but what exactly is written?

悩める君にコレをやろう
(壺???)で話題の水素と酸素が2:1で配合の水素酸素水だ!
…つまり(???)水では?
いいから(飲???)め、プラセボだ

What are the three kanji I couldn't decipher, and did I get everything else right?

>> No.18513826

>>18513803
jesus that really is for ants

巷で話題の...

and looks like probably 純水

last one is definitely 飲め, from context

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