/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Without love, it cannot be seen.
Do you agree with this statement? How relevant is this line to your everyday life, seacats?

>>18298265
It all depends on what you consider love.

For me, love isn't about being blindly idealistic, but about understanding a person. People are complex, so trying to see them in pure black and white is a bit of a fool's errand.

But more foolish still is to be completely relativistic. You can understand someone and still think they're good, or bad. The important thing is that you truly make an attempt to understand them, and to also understand your own biases.

There's a page from the manga which I think illustrates this concept well enough - take Ange's approach towards Eva and Battler. They can both do the same thing - helping out a strange - but Ange will view Battler doing so as part of his selfless demeanor and will view Eva doing so as a secret ploy to advance herself - not based on any individual context, but on the fact that she likes Battler and doesn't like Eva.

"Love" is the ability to move past such biases - as much as one is reasonably able to.

>>18298265
Love makes me angry because I lack it.

I want Umineko to cross over with Nasushit so that I can finally ask if Shiki can kill witches.

>>18298442
Cross, you say?

>>18298442
Don't want the fucking typefags touching Umineko

So this is the world of Umineko huh?
*solves the mystery*
*stops DiEnd from stealing the gold*
*takes a picture of Beato smiling or something*
I'm just a passing through Kamen Ri... Witch. Remember that.

Wait, 2 Umineko threads or is actually one made by Yasu

You've met your match, Yasu.

Is it worse to be a GOAT, or Erika?

>>18298265

It's true in many different ways. If you don't put yourself in someone else's shoes, if you don't try to imagine what it's like for them, you will never be able to truly understand them. In my eyes, it's similar to being empathetic, trying to understand what they're feeling or going through.

Funnily enough, I consider Kyrie's "spin the chessboard over" method quite similar to that, in terms of the idea that you have to try seeing things from your opponent's perspective.

>>18299096
Well, Kyrie demonstrates the reverse side of "Without love it can't be seen."

If you understand another person, you can hurt them pretty severely without really trying.

beato

>>18299347

And then we have Erika's "love makes people see things that don't exist", which is an interesting argument in itself. Sometimes we can be blind to other people's faults because we love them too much.

>>18299513
Yeah. Like Jessica and George were to Yasu.

Makes ya appreciate relationships like Eva and Hideyoshi's, along with Lion and Will. They're not stuck in a sado-masochistic nightmare.

Just watched the 8 hours video of Rosatrice, god its awful... how he manipulates the red truth, the why dunnit i mean how the hell can someone be so mentally challenged to believe in that shit, i think its just a troll theory.

>>18299890
What is the why dunnit in that video?

Is Yasu a Ushiromiya too? I mean before he finds the gold

>>18298771
Goat-kun have a imouto and a childhood friend to marry.
Erika got cucked

>>18300007

Sayo is Ushiromiya by blood. Though her true identity as Ushiromiya Lion isn't revealed until after she finds the gold.

>>18299890
>watching 8... fucking e i g h t! hours of nonsense
Why would you do that?

>>18298265
Romantic love doesn't exist, it's an illusion just like magic, only fools believe in it and desperately cling onto it. With love, you see things that aren't real. The ocean really is grey, not blue.

>>18299972
Rosa is killing everyone because she is trying to revive Beatrice.

>>18300096
I was trying to understand rosatrice believers but now i think they are trolls or retards.

>>18300159
Even though i dislike Erika, the scene when she talks about "without love you end seeing thinks that dont even exits" is cool

It's not like Yasu actually loved battler.

>>18300260
What a brilliant deduction. I've never seen the video and I know a majority of them are just shitposters. Some of them unironically prefer it to the real ending tho.

>>18300159
It does exist, but as a brief moment, like an immature feeling that leaves you when you already get more experience with other people. We all fell in love for the first time once, and we idealize that person as perfect, flawless, but it wasn't truth. The perfect person doesn't exist, and part of what makes love last longer is that you have to accept the other's faults and live with that, sharing your owns and hope to be accepted by them as well, while still learning to better yourself. It's not like a Disney's movie, nothing last forever, but it's a feeling nonetheless, and feelings does exist.

>>18300369
Don't watch it and pls dont read the comments either, im almost blind because of thatvideo .

>>18300416
I've seen it discussed here a lot. I know more or less what's about. Basically, it's just a theory made by some butthurt guy who didn't like that Shkannontrice ended up being real.

Chiru was a mistake

Umineko chapter 9 was a mistake

>>18300506
When is that coming out anyway?

>>18300539
All we know about it is that it's being worked and that it's going to be something serious rather than silly. It could come this year, next year, or much later.

>>18300539
>>18300546
I wonder which one is going to come out first, WTC 5 or Umi 9?

>>18300551
I would guess WTC5, unless Umi9 happens to be short.

>>18300539
According to some people who were at the 07th Live event it will be out this summer

https://twitter.com/umezawa_report/status/926459187189637120
https://twitter.com/kawatayuuhi/status/926423791865020416

>>18300559
You know, regardless of what Ryukishi said, I'm still waiting for something silly-friendly. It's just that it feels strange for me that he suddenly feels like making a new serious chapter after so long. He's a self-proclaimed troll after all, who knows

>>18300576
Yes, you are.

The true moral of Umineko is that you need to stay the fuck away from witches.

>>18298471
I want to fuck Will.

>>18298771
Erika solved Umineko.

>>18300252
Then why is she sending all those hints about wanting to be stopped?

>>18300781
>>>/lgbt/

>>18300810
>>/pol/

>>18300798
>>18300252
I mean, I don't believe in Rosatrice but is "Wanting to revive Beatrice" any more absurd of a motive than "Clearly, murdering my three lovers and arming a giant bomb will open a portal to Gensenkyo."

My main beef with Rosatrice is that it completely ignores ALL the Yasu stuff and basically says it's a red herring in favor of some stuff we see in Chapter 2. That doesn't seem likely.

>>18300817
>I mean, I don't believe in Rosatrice but is "Wanting to revive Beatrice" any more absurd of a motive than "Clearly, murdering my three lovers and arming a giant bomb will open a portal to Gensenkyo."
Yes, given that the series goes a great length establishing Yasu's mental state, which was fueled by her depression, her body and her desire to be understood and pull a Kinzo.

>>18300822
>pull a Kinzo
Isn't that literally trying to revive Beatrice?

>>18300798
I was just respoding, its a really bad why dunnit i know, i dont belive in rosashit either.

Seeing as it was never decided by the roulette, how do you think Rosa would have reacted to Maria dying before her? Obviously saying she’d be upset is an understatement, but would it be even worse than Eva’s reaction to George’s death(s)?

>>18300957
Nope.

>>18300977
Rosa loves Maria, it's just that she also feels like Maria is dragging her down and ruining her imagine. She's not a sociopath.

Literally the only thing that i hate about Umineko is the low posibily that someone still believe in that crap Rosa theory. even when Ryu confirmed shkanon. I dont think another series have a situation like that.

>>18300994
>I dont think another series have a situation like that.
ME Indoctrination Theory? But really, conspiracy theories are popular nowadays more than ever.

Add to this that people don't like the idea that their waifu may have been born a dude.

This is iconic.

How would you react if Ryukishi confirmed Yasu and Lion are women?

>>18301024
But Yasu is a girl.

>>18301024
Drooped. It's never gonna to happen so I don't worry.

Never forgetti

>>18300753
witches aren't real

>>18301099
Oh yeah? Prove it, faggot. Oh wait, you can't.

>>18301024
Whether Yasu and Lion are men or women is very minor to me, I don't have an interest in sexualizing or shipping them. The fact that it's never confirmed is more interesting to me and speculating on it is what Ryukishi wants the fans to do.

>>18301024
I wouldn't care at all

All of us.

Umineko solved.

>>18301111

No one likes Kanon.

>>18301011
>The killer hid small bombs in their tits

>>18301011

>>18301332
As much as SMALL BOMBS gets flak, it is pretty funny that the real solution is one large bomb

Spot the thot!

Lesbiam

>>18301375
Biggest plot twist in Umineko desu.

>Implying that battler-trice is not the real truth

>>18301488
its ok if you are a witch :-D

TFW you are in love with a fucking chair.

>>18301577
Too bad Yasu’s dick didn’t work, otherwise Jessica could have just fucked the angst out of him.

>>18301488
They just hate each other so much it warped around to homolust

Shannon a cute! i wanna hug her.

>>18298265
Umineko changed my mind a Lot in a good way, when a i started the novel i was an edgy fag, now i'm still a fag but a different and more empathic.

Why do SO MANY PEOPLE call Satoko "Satako"? I've seen it hundreds of times over the years.

Seriously, what's the deal with that? Does everyone suddenly have dyslexia when it comes to that specific name?

I only watched the higurashi Anime, should i read the novels? There is a big different between the anime and the VN like Umineko?

>>18300337
Stop.

>>18302097
Well, people also say meduca meguka
I don't mind

>>18302171

The sound novels are more detailed and fleshed out. The anime is more compressed, of course. The villain and the story don't really change though.

>>18302171
The anime is a completely different animal in execution and storytelling.

It's a infamously bad adaptation (except for maybe Kai), but at the same time, it's a pretty awesome series, bad animation aside.

It works standalone from the VN even missing tons of info because it tries to go other places with the presentation while maintaining the very core pieces of info.

The VN is clearly superior, but the anime is really good overall, if you don't mind it being a terrible adaptation (think of "The Shining", not always bad adaptations are no good as final products)

Oh shit

I guess it's time for Umineko EP9 and WTC5

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-01-26/ryukishi07-hotaru-bi-no-tomoru-koro-ni-manga-ends-next-month/.126991

>>18302171
Do it. It's pretty great.

>>18302171
The anime is enjoyable, but it's garbage compared to the novels.

It's pretty irritating when an anime-only fan tries to discuss the plot or characters with everyone else, because the don't really know what they are talking about.

>>18302171
It's fucking garbage because it spoiled my favorite 07thExpansion novel before I even read it.

The anime is the equivalent of reading the Wikipedia summary of a book. You know the story, but you can't say you've read it.

That half decent anime adaptation is the reason why so many people never read Higurashi but still pretend they know what it's about and compare it to Umineko to see which is better. Without having read the damn thing.

>>18302376

Umineko VN is superior to Higurashi VN.

Sorry mate.

>>18302403
Higurashi VN is like a grain of rice in the middle of the universe Umineko composed.

It's not even fair to compare, they are too different anyway.

>>18302403
The writing is slightly better in Umineko amd it has more facial expressions (but less bodies), but I think both stories are equally great. I wouldn't say that Higurashi is a step below Umineko or anything like that.

According to a New York Times report from 2006 on several studies of cuteness, "cute images stimulate the same pleasure centers of the brain aroused by sex, a good meal or psychoactive drugs like cocaine."

Is this why Maria can be heartwarming and arousing at the same time?

>>18301703
Yes hugging is one thing you can actually do with Shannon.

>>18302420
Can you even compare them Storywise in their respective grounds as part of the WTC series.

Even their genre overall is quite different (every single key element is rather quite a bit different).

Higurashi is pure psychological horror with a supernatural looped kudzu plot chaining everything towards the main villain.

Umineko is a multilayered metafictional romantic psychological horror deconstructed fairplay mystery, a very postmodern work, with supernatural elements being a main point for discussion regarding their very representation in the work.

Their focus and even storytelling are just so abnormally different, I really can't say I'm much surprised some people read Higurashi after going through Umineko (not like they spoil Takano in Umineko anyway)

>>18301577

Jessica could have soothed Kanon's edgelordness by punching him in the face as hard as she could!

!

It could go on daily until doctors made Jessica stop injuring her hand!

>>18302442

Anal?
Oral?

Without love, countless possibilities can't be seen.

>>18302687
I want yasu to blow me with his mouth pussy

>>18302705
>not wanting Maria's instead

Imagine her little teeth playing with your magical wand. Would Spectro Patronum the shit out of her autistic face.

Ryukishi makes some good lolis, too bad we only have two in Umineko.

For more works like Higurashi again (and more hentai doujins).

>>18302488
I wonder if Jessica’s ghost remained on the earth as a rage demon because of how absurdly unfair her death was

They say she still haunts the asylum to this day, punching every committed individual who dares to embark on SRS hormone therapy

Higurashi > Higanbana > Trianthology > piss > Rose Guns Days > shit > Umineko

prove me wrong

>>18303106

I was going to take you seriously until I saw your Type-Moon image. Sad.

>>18303106
Кошкой в ​​коробке был педик
>>18303115
Anon, it's a losing game to be baited by franchise wars. Especially by cheeki breekis.

>>18303138
>когда забыл переименовать картинку на английский и тут же на меня сбежался какой-то славянин и стал предупреждать пиндосов о славянах
mission failed we'll get 'em next time
also i am not a type-moon fag, i just posted a random vn-related pic i found on my computer

>>18303184

>i'm not a type-moon fag

Sounds just like what a typical Type-Moon fag would say. Go back to your Saber waifus.

>>18303194
fuck off you gay faggot, i bet i've read more 07th Expansion novels than you

>>18303138
>Кошкой в ​​коробке был педик
Yes, Bern was gay.

>>18303204
Proof-reading is all part of the writing process, Anon.

Erika did nothing wrong

ILLUSIONS TO ILLUSIONS

THE R07 OF ILLUSION WILL FALL TO ILLUSIONS

We know the blunt truth is red, the understanding of the game rules is the gold truth, but what color would the autistic truth be?

ascii version please? beto?

>>18303344
blue
>>18301011

Anyone have the ASCII of Shroedinger's Horrified Yasu?

Who is the most GAR Umineko character?

>>18303711
Will. Followed by Krause.

Cool, didn't know /jp/ had threads for 07th.

I just started with the original version of Higurashi, but once I found out that a new one had been made I downloaded that one instead.

However, I do not really feel like the new one is that much better than the old one in regard to facial expression and OST.
While the characters are better drawn, they also seem to display less emotion.

I mean, look at Rena's goofy face in the old version, it's cute as hell.
The new one just seems so... mediocre.

Which version does /jp/ like best?

>>18303752
You know there's an option to use the original sprites, right?

>>18303752
There are patches to change the sprites
There are also patches to change the OST, try to get whatever makes this song play during the club games
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGMPIRvYnMU&index=4&list=PLE1FA9582D46A0841

>>18303766
Ye, but I had the old one downloaded already.
Putting them next to eachother and taking a ss is easier, as I had to get to this point anyway if I wanted to start reading the new version.

Anyway, I'm really interested in this
>Which version does /jp/ like best?

>>18303752
>>18303777
The translation in the new version is a lot better. It also has the original music which is nice. The sprites don't really matter since you can switch between them anyway, but I prefer the original sprites

>>18303777

I prefer the version with the new sprites. Although be careful not to criticize the original sprites, the fanboys will eat you alive if you do that (they kill anyone who dares to say PS3 Umineko sprites are cool).

>>18301657
I know that feel.

>>18302442
She has a "vagina" but it doesn't have any pleasurable sensation for her and has no uterus.

>>18303752
I prefer the originals sprites but i understand that people like the PS2/new PC/PS3 sprites.

>>18303900
Anal?

>>18303937
More "rocky cliff spike hole"

>>18303812
>The translation in the new version is a lot better.
I see, I did notice a few changes while catching up to where I left off on the original version.

>>18303825
Ye, nothing wrong with that.
After playing a chapter with the new sprites I do believe I like the original ones better.
It's really cool that you're able to switch between them in-game, btw.
Really something that you wouldn't expect them to include in a re-release.

>>18303922
Yeye, I really enjoy the way original Mion and Rena look. Their expressions are also top notch.

Takano did nothing wrong.

>>18302197
Face it anon, it was a obsession.

>>18303979
agreed other than lose

>>18303979
could i have the download for the higu sprite pack?

Why is the Umineko anime OST incomplete? Where's the alternative version for goldenslaughterer and worldenddominator? Why is there a version of dreamenddischarger that wasn't even used in the anime?

This is good and bad at the same time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0odg43uA3M

>>18304068
What Umineko anime?

>>18303752
Alchemist sprites are the best.

>>18303752
The original facial expressions are ambiguous and Ryukishi uses them to portray different emotions. The Steam/Alchemist sprites look really awkward in some scenes because the faces don't have that ambiguity. That's a major screw up on their part.

>>18304507

Yeah, yeah, Ryukishi's everything is da best even though his sprites suck ass. We get it.

Can't believe that gaap Vessel was nanjo.

>>18304568
He should really consider hiring a fanartist like Shroedinger to draw the sprites. :^)

Ryukishi should draw hentai background characters.

>>18303812
Speaking of... where the hell is the steam version of episode 6? It's been almost a year since Meakashi was released

I would love to see hentai made by ryukishi, imagine those godly handjobs.

>>18304765
The last three arcs have been in editing for over 6 months

>>18304771

wtc 5 should have some hentai to draw a wider audience.

yes or no?

>>18304772
Are they planning on releasing them all at once or something?

>>18304786
Yes.

>>18304568

>>18304790
Maybe? But there is certainly a delay of some sort, they should have finished all of them already.

I see Kanon, shannon and Claire.

>>18304812

>cheap looking
>trashy
>bland
>childish

Congrats you just described the original sprites. Don't even get me started on how hilariously off-model they are.

>>18304765
>Tsumihoroboshi: Preparing for beta testing.

http://blog.mangagamer.org/project-status/

It's just here or the Steam/Mangagamer release of Higurashi have a pretty shitty performance? Episode 1 is fine but episodes 2-5 are bad fuck
My laptop could handle that Umineko release with effects and shit, but Higurashi make it literally a toaster

>>18303298
Erika a cuck

>>18305231
Erika a cute

>>18303523
What the fucl.

>>18304816
>actual boobs
Not Shannon

>>18305398
Does she lack actual bombs though?

That's the real question.

>>18300792
Holy shit the EP8 battle between Erika and Battler is really cool and more explicit in the manga.

>>18305411
She has the star wars space bombs which act like gravity exists.

what is this and what the fuck is wrong with Gaap.

>>18301703
What a dumb hat.

so, are you aware that Krauss is Beatrice right?

>>18305634
>>18301703

Lia lovely smile.

>>18305714
The loveliest.

>>18305224
Pls help

>>18305836
Stop being a poorfag, hope it helps.

>>18305224
I think it's just you because mi PC is literally a potato (the best thing i can play is Hearthstone ) and higurashi works well.

>>18304419
>>18304507
I just (almost) finished the first chapter, and I have to say, I do think the updated sprites are better when it comes to the ''serious'' moments.
When Rena is in ''ya gonna get killed'' mode, her original sprite does not change that much. (or I must have missed it)
While the upgrade sprite also makes use of shadow to give it a more ominous feeling.

All in all, really enjoying reading it.
Remember reading a story about how where we're currently are is hell, and the people around us; friends, family, etc are all demons.
They will continue dropping hints, and once you act on it things will start to change.
The more you find out the more you're able to see hell for what it really is. The more you're able to see your friends and family for what they really are.
God, I love stories like these, wish they were used more often in anime, but so far Higurashi is the only one making use of it.
Gotta love the sense of fear that accompanies misplaced security.

>>18304027
I really want it too :(.

I really hated this guy.

>>18305885
And what story was that, Anon?

>>18305885
Higurashi wasn't about seeing your friends and family for what they really were. It was about not letting paranoia get to you.

>>18305885
"The Good Place" is a lot like what you described, Anon.

>>18306010
Tried to find it, but couldn't.
Has been over 3 years since I read it.
Sorry bud.

>>18306015
I'm only at chapter 1.
I'm not sure how the story develops from here on out.

>>18306062
Can ya at least describe the characters? Sounds interesting.

Everyone posts their favorite tracks, but which episodes have your favorite collection of new tracks?

Episodes 5 and 7 are my personal favorites. I'll listen to some of their songs exclusively at times.

>>18305590
Yes, it's pretty great.

>>18306112
Sorta invalidates Erika's death at the end of episode 6, but since episode 8 is pure meta things don't have to make sense.

>>18306273
Yep meta Erika just was sent to the oblivion she didn't die.

I know the new information in Episode 8's manga is confirmed to be true according to Ryukishi, but what does this mean for the canonicity of the rewritten scenes? Are the new scenes only for the sake of making things clearer for the readers of the manga, or should they be considered a replacement for the ones in the visual novel?

>>18306338
Is overthinking a mental disorder?

>>18306344
Leave me alone, Will.

>>18306338
They don't changed anything just added more Information to be more explicits and easy to understand for everyone. So think of it as a complement.

>>18300007
Why he shouldn't be before? He is the son of kinzo.

Why didn't Yasu give a weapon to Genji if some of his plans included him killing people?

>>18306843
Much like the illustrious founder of Ember's Ghost Squad, it was far easier for Yasu to write about murdering everyone than it was for her to actually pull it off.

>>18306900

Really makes you wonder how Sayo would have pulled off her Shkanon trick in real life as opposed to just message bottles lol.

why they never released the Umineko Motion Graphic 9?

Sing a song of love, my dudes. Even if love ends up being a real pain the ass.
>>18307013
As Erika says, Love can blind ya. George didn't catch on because he bought into Shannon as this big breasted meido waifu.

Jessica - well, she's interesting. She might have known but, since she loved Shannon, played along with the Shkanon stuff.

Basically, the crucial component of Yasu's murder plot only works because people did love her.

And of course, since polyamory was an absurdly unrealistic solution, she opted to arm and then detonate a giant bomb in the hopes that a magical portal would grant her the ability to turn into three different people, so she could fuck all her cousins without it being weird.

>>18307069
>he opted to arm and then detonate a giant bomb in the hopes that a magical portal would grant her the ability to turn into three different people.
10/10 would that if i could.

>>18307069
there is a "C.V" in the image, so Haworthia will be fully voiced? can't wait.

>>18307052
Some tragedy happened during the earthquake and the group disbanded.

One or more of them probably died.

>>18307136
Haworthia is a CD...
Of course the characters singing the songs have voices, anon

"My name is Yasu. Well, this is my last video. It all has to come to this. Tomorrow is the day of retribution, the day I will have my revenge against humanity, against all of you.

"For the last eight years of my life, since I hit puberty, I've been forced to endure an existence of loneliness, rejection and unfulfilled desires, all because gingers have never been attracted to me. Battler gave his affection and sex and love to big titted blondes, and never to me."

"I'm 18 years old and still a virgin, never even kissed a ginger. And through, 2 1/2 years, more than that actually, I'm still a virgin. It has been very torturous.

"Puberty is the time when everyone experiences those things such as sex and fun and pleasure. In those years I've had to rot in loneliness, it's not fair.

"Battler has never been attracted to me. I don't know why Battler is attracted to me but I will punish you all for it. It's an injustice, a crime because I don't know what you don't see in me, I'm the perfect witch and yet you throw yourselves at all these obnoxious women instead of me, the supreme golden witch. I will punish all of you for it. [ahaha.wav]

"On the day of retribution, I am going to enter the hottest guest house on Rokkenjima and I will slaughter every single spoiled, stuck-up, Ushiromiya I see inside there. The family I've desired so much. They have all rejected me and looked down on me as an inferior maid if I ever dropped a tea cup.

"I take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you., You will finally see that I am, in truth, the superior one, the true golden witch. [ahaha.wav]

Yes, after I have annihilated every cousin in the guesthouse, I'll take to the patio and slay every single person I see there. All those Ushiromiyas who live such lives of hedonistic pleasure while I've had to rot in loneliness all these years. They all look down upon me every time I tried to join them, they've all treated me like a maid.

"Well, now I will be a god compared to you, you will all be GOATs, you are GOATS and I will slaughter you like GOATS. I'll be a Witch exacting my retribution on all those who deserve it and you do deserve it just for the crime of living a better life than me."

"You forced me to suffer all my life, now I will make you all suffer. I waited a long time for this. I'll give you exactly what you deserve, all of you. All you girls who rejected me, looked down upon me, you know, treated me like scum while you gave yourselves to other men. And all of you men for not giving me my pony, all of you fat men with glasses. I hate you. I hate all of you. I can't wait to give you exactly what you deserve, annihilation."

>>18307136

Haworthia has no real relation to WTC5, except perhaps in its themes.

>>18307158
ok

>>18307156
brb killing myself. (thanks)

>>18307162
what? i thought that Haworthia will be WTC5.

>>18307158
Yasu the supreme gentlemen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_DvJwakV4I
-cries-

>>18307175

No?

WTC5 title is still hidden.

>>18307158
Kill that fat man with glasses twice please.

>>18307230
Why is George so hated?

Is it because of his spergy Demon King thing?

>>18307236

It's a meme. There is no legit reason for people to hate George and is generally one of the nicer people in the family.

>>18307236
Messing with the postal system is a crime punishable by death in Zangaro.

I remember the first time I read Higurashi.
It was the manga and I got to the part where K1 finds the needles in the food Rena brought over.
I was so confused, I thought it was a light and fluffy harem deal.

>>18306338
Honestly I wished for a remake of ep. 8 with scenes like this.

>>18307013
>>18307069
She did pull it in real life, for 2 years.

>>18307158

Tfw the fanbase thinks you're a bitch because you keep on suspecting the maid and then it turns out that it really was the stupid goddamn maid.

Tfw you lose your husband and your son and your own brother tries to kill you in cold blood but despite wanting to believe he didn't kill your son the years of your horrific upbringing make you catch on to the horrible truth

Tfw you defeat Chess Joker in a gun duel and despite being able to tell everyone the truth you keep mum because you're determined to at least keep the sole surviving member of your family happy


Tfw the son of the two people who murdered your family teams up with some rich cunt to write edgy fanfiction about you being the culprit

Tfw a magical cat tells your adopted daughter to call you a cunt

>>18307207
Ohh i see, thanks.

>>18307307
Eva is a martyr.

>>18307307
But she was a bit of a dickhead wasn't she

>>18307307
She didn't suspect the maid. She hated the maid because she thought she was a low born servant with no money.

Little did she know the maid was the was the family's heir and rich as fuck.

Also she caused the incident by setting up the whole bizarre prisoner dilemma with the gold and the guns because she didn't want to go to jail for killing her sister in law.

>>18307342
She is kinzo daughter after all.

>>18307346
Hello ange

I think that with the originals sprites Lion looks less femenine.

>>18307346
No she literally said “There’s no witch it was probably that dumb maid in a wig” in one of the episodes.

Eva is an asshole, but she’s also right. Like, constantly.

>>18307371
But the culprit wasn't Shannon, it was Sayo

I don’t think Eva is truly old money. She married a Noveau Riche man like Hideyoshi and genuinely loves him.

She is just reasonably skeptical of a maid who dates her rich son. And in the end, that maid didn’t really do much to disprove her suspicions.

Tfw the roleplay when too far.

>>18307373
Come the fuck on, anon.

I always Wondered why Lion is Blonde but Sayo isn't?

>>18307371
You mean in the same episode in which she was easily bribed to take part in the whole thing.

>>18307396
Yeah, because she was being told it was just a prank bro.

>>18307393

Colored his hair? His hair is magically different in that one miracle kakera? Pick one.

Funnily enough, in episode 7 manga, Yasu/Sayo is depicted as blonde. But then in 'Confession of the Golden Witch', Sayo has brown hair.

I always wanted to more know about the world of Lion, things like the relationship with his sister.

>>18307407
That's what episode 9 is for

>>18307407
In the miracle kakera Yasu only molests Jessica, rather than brutally murder her

It’s great to be Jessica. Truly, a life well lived.

>>18307414
>Molest
Enough with this

>>18303752
Just 07thmod the Steam version my dude

Okay, I've witnessed enough shitposting for now, see you in six months.

>>18307559

<See you again.>

Just don't forget your promise, otherwise I will go mad and blow up this website.

>>18307559
Well done retards. You guys scared another one.

>>18307559
This thread is decent for now.

Gohda did nothing wrong.

>>18307375
For Eva to be Old Money, wouldn't Kinzo have to be Old Money?
The guy that made the family fortune?

Wtf YouTube is full of rosatrice i believed that shit was dead after Confession how can the denial be so strong?

>>18305897
maybe if we pout long enough we'll get it someday

>>18305905
...you betrayed me

>>18307637
The Ushiromiyas were already old money before Kinzo's generation.

>>18307666
Just download the steam version. The sprites are right there in the game files

>>18307669
I just googled it :(, but i won't give up!

>>18307407
Do people intentionally draw Lion like a complete faggot or are they pretending he's a girl?

>>18307559
Oh, come on, what a pussy. You didn't even see the post about Battler and Maria being turned into a human centipede and eating each other's shit.

>>18307683
Satoko's butt naked sprite isn't there. If you want to collect R07's art but don't care about that one, you may as well delete all the Leaf Fight cards too.

>>18307700

They like to pretend Lion is a girl. That way they can enjoy their Will/Lion doujins without any regret.

>>18307714
Hey where i can find the leaf cards sprites?

I mean, Yasu can be a guy, that makes sense.

But what if Lion only didn't get thrown from the cliff because she was born a girl in the miracle kakera?

There should be a reason as to why Natsuhi wouldn't commit her crime, maybe that's why.

Although I wouldn't mind having Lion as male either, but think about it.

>>18308066
There we have it
EP9's main twist

Go back to the future and also check out if there's any collab of Ryu with Nasu, Kodaka and/or Uchikoshi please

One with Meteor wouldn't be bad either desu

>>18308066
Yeah sounds interesting, like the hair color thing.

>>18308066
that would mean that Lion is a completely different person than Yasu and kinda ruin the point of the miracle kakera imo, but it does sound cool

>>18308106
But they are very different people, even in appearance.

>>18308129
but they have the same brain, the same DNA and stuff, as babies they are exactly the same. If Lion is a girl, it just mean that she's a completely different person, and it means that "Yasu's miracle kakera" isn't even about himself but about some other girl that was born from the same parents.
Your theory is plausible but I'm not sure I would like it if it was confirmed.

>>18308066

Are you saying the child would annoy Natsuhi less if it were female?

Sounds like you're simply in an extreme denial mode.

>>18308187
>the same DNA and stuff
We don't know that. The baby could have inherited different genes in the miracle fragment. It would explain why Lion is blonde while Yasu has brown hair.

>>18307700
I hate Lion because he got to pinch 410's butt in EP8 and I can't even exist in her world.

Why live?

>>18308198
Nah, I don't really care, I can't even really ship anyone in seacats either (other than Hideyoshi and Eva, that is), so I don't mind anyone being male or female and being paired with whomever.

I just think it's rather plausible. Not to mention, that kakera was made to mirror Lion's alternative reality's identity as a member of the Ushiromiya family, gender isn't even a problem in that case.

>>18308260
>EvaxHide
I see I'm not the only person who see them as the best couple. Nice.

>>18308253
Fucking yes. Fucking lucky Lion.

Guys stop leaking EP9 plot!

>>18308260

How is it plausible? You haven't presented a single substantial argument that supports your theory.

When llamas cry.

Yasu's gender has never been outright confirmed one way or the other. Personally, I don't see why people care about it so much when evaluating Yasu. All that you really need to know is that Yasu had a deformity and dysmorphia of some kind due to Natsuhi chucking her off a cliff.

I suppose the idea of Yasu being a transgirl makes some in this day and age relate to her more, and also makes others harbor an irrational disgust.

It's not Yasu's gender issues that disgust me, it's the murder and betrayal of those who loved her.

>>18308326
>I suppose the idea of Yasu being a transgirl makes some in this day and age relate to her more, and also makes others harbor an irrational disgust.
aside from /pol/tards and trolls I don't think anyone hates Yasu because of his gender issues anon

Magic is real

>>18308326
The thing that makes me think Yasu was originally male if the fact that Genji suddenly considered it a bad idea for Kinzo to know about him AFTER the accident rather than before due to not wanting to have a Beato 3.0 situation. The only thing I can think that would cause this is the reconstructive surgery Nanjo attempted which would mean Yasu would effective end up living a girl instead of a boy and being on the incestuous rape shortlist.

Compare this to Lion who though androgynous, is treated like the proper heir and not molested by Kinzo as a reincarnation of Beatrice.

>>18308301
There should be a reason as to why Natsuhi wouldn't commit her crime, maybe that's why.

Maybe she felt more empathy towards a female baby, enough not to put her down an abyss with some random servant.

She was already easily stressed from the get-go, female babies normally are way less bothersome than male ones, which are rather... Too much active and literal crybabies. But maybe that's just be, I had 3 kids (2 boys and a girl), which is why I opine like that.

>>18308500
Me*

In any case, kinda biased, but I think it's sufficient enough to be at least a valid little argument.

The simplest solution is always the best:

Lion is a boy's name.

>>18308521
No it isn't.

But there's still a solution: Sakutarou is a boy and he is a lion. Therefore Lion is a boy.

>>18308553

Oh my. This is the kind of twisted logic I like. Well done.

>>18308521
I think it's neutral, since one cannot be called Lioness. Much like Rafaelle is a boy's name in Italian, but a girl's name in portuguese, besides obviously being male in origin.

But there's no one famous to be called Lion as a female to give an example, so I guess it's just super uncommon.

>>18308565

In other words, Lion is a boy's name. If Ryukishi REALLY wanted the gender to stay ambiguous, he wouldn't have chosen such an obviously male name.

None of the other names Kinzo gave to his children are ambiguous: Eva, Rudolf, Krauss, Rosa.

>>18308582
Well, he wouldn't even be trying to hide his gender in EP7 like that if that was the case, nor had made an argument about that in a whole chapter thematic.

>>18308582
I think the other anon's point was that the original gender of the name is irrelevant, much likely if said name is so uncommon.

His point syands imo, people could still use it as neutral in other countries and we may never know. Japan in particular has quite a history with female and male names being rather irrelevant regardless of their original intent, particularly regarding western names.

Lion's kanji nomenclature is gender neutral anyway.

>>18308640

Except Kinzo clearly uses Western names as he is strongly influenced by the West. In other words: why would Kinzo choose a typical, western boy name for his hypothetical daughter?

>>18308326
>Yasu's gender has never been outright confirmed one way or the oth
R07's twitter.
Manga pannels.

Check this out boys
Eva+Ange+Lion=Evangelion?!?!

>>18305885
>demons dropping hints
That seems like obvious bait. Call the police about your demon family, turns out they’re demons too. Course you’re in hell, so failure is the only option.

>>18308784
Confirmed.

>>18308784
Eva and Ange are the two best characters in Umineko.

Lion is just kinda, eh.

>>18308521
>>18308565
I'm pretty sure he's named after Beatrice's last name (Casteg-lion-i), not from the animal. That's why it's pronounced Rion. Lion (animal) would be Raion

>>18303979
Poor takano went through so much shit

>>18308940
Quite literally.

>>18308955
I admit I laughed.

>>18308940
Not as much as Marie in Higanbana tho

>>18308978
Using Higanbana characters is kinda unfair imo

There was even that psycho kid that got viciously raped to death by a thousand rabbits.


Higanbana is the darkest Ryukishi ever got I think

>>18303979
>>18308940
The orphanage was hell, but honestly, once Takano found her, her life wasn't THAT bad.

>>18309035
Well, the problem is the abuse during her developmental years.

>>18308998
The man said so himself, and went as far as saying that he probably wouldn't get as dark as that again.

Higanbana is one huge pile of terrifying depression. The scariest part is just how accurate it is with its content.

>>18309065
Reasons why I didn't touch Higanbana yet.

I'm legitimately afraid of the content...

>>18309073
My nigga.

>>18308840
Ye, that's the point of this kind of hell.
Torment by means of false security.

It's like this, somewhere in your mind you know something is off, but once you call ''them'' out on it, everything collapses.
So do you really want to find out?

>>18306067
Characters are the MC and the people surrounding him; friend, family and girlfriend.
They torture him by dropping hunts about their true nature, slowly chipping away at the image he has of him.
Talking about things ''he shouldn't know'' when he is asleep.
*Like Rena/Mion did in Ch. 1 of Higurashi.
Acting irrational/amoral/like psychopaths, etc
The MC starts to suspect something, and slowly figueres everything out.
Demons then take their true shape and the story ends with the MC suffering for eternity.

>>18309073
Well, I won't lie, the content is pretty traumatizing, and doesn't rely in any other thing other than the text and music, much like his other works. There's no explicitly shocking violent or sexual scenes, even the descriptions are fairly subtle without ever going any extreme.

And yet, the content is absolutely upsetting, depressing and despairing.

I wouldn't recommend anyone faint of heart to ever read it, specially bullied and/or abused people. The true horror of Higanbana is just how precisely it hits the nails with the story elements. I was bullied in the past, this is some real peychological horror.

If you are not ready to that, just don't touch Higanbana. I think most of the people in here would say the same.

>>18309073
Pretty much the same here, I have trouble finishing it.
The terrifying soundtrack and highschool ptsd doesn't help.

>>18308743
They never stated Lion's gender, period. Not on twitter, nor in any interview or answers book, nor in any manga panel.

He stated Yasu's though, the most part explicitly he could in his own lines.

>>18309121
Most partially explicit*

Btw Ryukishi likes that kind of stuff, doesn't he? Subtlety.

He rather leave all of the hints in there, and leave one bit of irrelevant content actually hanging to tease our brains, like Lion's gender, which is only teased a bit and ultimatelt, as said by himself, being irrelevant to the comprehension of the actual content in hands (and indeed, the ambiguity is the whole point of it, regardless of him giving away Yasu's sex).

>>18309111
Yeah, I'm gonna pass for now.

>>18309120
I have a friend saying he just couldn't go past a certain "Utopia" chapter as it touched his personal trauma too well.

I'm bracing myself to it specifically ever since, as the first chapter alone already seems too much for me.

>>18309035
Yeah but that happened during the most important years for a child to develop, that's why I think it fucked her up so badly. Even though her grandpa was nice she (I think) was still scared that he would abandon her again.

>>18309153
>Utopia

Yeah, that's the best and also the darkest story in there imo

Not sure if I would ever give it a reread.

>>18309167
Utopia was fucking creepy man. The only really uplifting one was Reaper of the 13th Step, I liked how the main character found a hobby for herself and something to live for. That's why the beginning was the scariest part for me, she was just some living corpse.

Kinda funny how Higurashi and Umineko have such a replay value to them (especially for foreshadowing hunting), while Higanbana and Rose Guns Days seem to be a kind of "one time only" experience that you probably won't bring yourself to reread no matter how much you liked them.

How is Ookami Kakushi, Iwaihime and TRT regarding them?

>>18309185
Ookami Kakushi is in the lines of WTC series

TRT is totally in the lines of Higanbana

Not sure about Iwaihime, I'm still getting into it.

>>18309092
Yeah, not quite an uplifting story, is it?

>>18309073

Higanbana talks about bullying and abuse and it talks about it in a very frustrating way.
However, let me give you something positive: while the overall themes are dark, there are also positive themes and chapters that are overall there only to make you feel happy.

I personally don't consider Higanbana THAT bad in terms of its content, but I guess it also depends on whether or not you're a sensitive person.

SHI on
MI on
LI(RI) on

What did he mean by this

>>18309205
After the "happy and upbeating" endings for Umineko, I'm pretty sure Ryukishi's ending for Higurashi was just per chance actually happy.

In fact, the guy has a thing for 'Esoteric Happy Endings' ever since. Not that I dislike them, much for the contrary, I really appreciate them for some reason, they just seem right.

Honestly, Higanaba made me question how much R07 is aware of some fucked up stuff that go on on society. Like some of the stuff he says about bullying as so raw and real.

>>18309228

Considering Ryukishi used to be a social worker, he probably knows quite a lot.

>>18309225
Hahaha, what is even remotely happy about being tortured for all eternity? Nigga that ain't "esoteric", that's just straight up BAD END.

>>18309209
Hm, I respectfully disagree with you there, anon.

I think I've never found a content in a VN to be 'that' disturbingly intimidating, at least not too often.

And it isn't even because there's fucked up stuff and gory rapey imagery either, it has none of that. I've read my fair share of the worst kinds of VNs -those full of shock, edgy, rape and gore everywhere, criminal psycho stuff, heck all of the "Blue" series of VNs even- but very few were as uncomfortable and triggering as Higanbana.

But yeah, I'm in the "bullied" side of the spectrum as well, so I guess this is very subjective.

>>18309245

I respect your opinion, anon. I think that maybe for people who experienced heavy bullying on their own skin, it might feel traumatizing to re-live in such a way, especially with Ryukishi's writing.

Maybe for me it never felt that bad because I never experienced that harsh of an abuse. I did get bullied slightly, but it was never on the level of Higanbana bullying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av_xaxaqRFU

The official bullying theme.

>>18309245
>>18309249

You guys are giving me a paranoia attack. I'm so curious to read, and yet I feel like that shit will hit me way too hard because of my own life experiences.

I guess I'll wait until I'm in a better shape for that kind of stuff. Worst part is that I'm also a loner, so there's no one to read with me... Not that I would manage to read with anyone together anyway.

To be far you need a fairly high IQ to understand Umineko

>>18309266
Fuck...

The only reason why I made it through Higanbana without feeling much was because I was just starting high school back then. High school destroyed me.

>>18309272

Aw, I would read it together with you, anon.

A question: are you generally easily affected by fictional media? Like, do you get easily sad or emotional or do you have experience of being affected heavily when looking at content that relates to your own life?

I think Higabana is worth a read, but I don't want you to be at a risk of experiencing some kind of meltdown.

>>18307342
>>18307346
Reminder that Ep 1 and 2 were written by Yasu so Eva acting like a bitch can be handwaved as the lack of love Yasu has towards Eva making him write her bitchy on the forgeries
3-6 Eva is less of a bitch and Hideyoshi mentions that she is way more rude only when the ushiromiya family gets brought up

>>18309278
uh huh

Is the moral of Umineko to take the blue pill, since the truth never helps anyone?

>>18309316
No the moral is that you shouldn't let the truth control your life

>>18309316

The moral of Umineko is to stop living in your own Golden Land, and confront the real world. No matter how terrifying or frightening it may seem, if you don't take the necessary step, you will remain eternally locked in a catbox, just like Sayo. And by locking herself inside the catbox, Sayo was unable to grasp for better future.

>>18309289
I mean, when it comes to relatable stuff, be in movies or even books, I guess we all get emotionally invested somehow.

Some more than others. I can't touch some drama movies because of their themes for example. I feel like dying inside when stuff I relate is used and not solved... they never really are, most of them are introduced as tragic elements, and not how to surpass them.

Let's say you put a story with a rapist blackmailer in a school, and that's a dramatic element alright. But you never really solve the problems about it, you just show how it affected the character and how said character will leave with that trauma forever. That kind of problem won't ever have a solution, the person won't ever really recover from that until death. My situation involves certain kinds of these problems as well,and I think bullying is one trauma that never goes away. You can't kill them for payback. If you try getting your payback they come back even harder on you anyway, and will hit harder if you resist more and more. At some point you break. And just like most of the movies, the problem isn't ever really solved, and that's when shit really gets into you as some kind of inescapable hell on earth.

And I have the impression Higanbana has that kind of thing in there. If it has and it presents this kind of thing well, that's truly horrifying, and I'm not sure I'm really going to read it.

And adding, telling other people just makes things worse in a way, and people surrounding you will get away because they know you have problems, and they don't wanna have any. If they are okay, you can stay as the sacrificial lamb for torment for the hell they would ever care for.

These are my two cents in the subject at least.

>>18309225
The ending of Higurashi is only happy for Rika. Her friends are still fucked in other worlds, she just pretends it was all a dream and treasures the only world she managed to survive in.

>>18309121
Umineko official yen press english traduccion.

>>18309286
Higanbana takes place in an elementary school. You can't compare literal adult psychopaths with preteen kids when it comes to bullying.

>>18309364

Well, you got one thing right: Ryukishi does question why bullying exists and if it's possible to stop bullying? Whether or not that way exists I will not say (mainly because I want to avoid spoiling you), but he does address bullying in a very raw way.

Authors preaching anti-escapist messages always strikes me as disingenuous.

Sort of like ranting about a fire you yourself started.

>>18309381
It would be funny if there was a solution to the problem and I'm turning my eyes to it, or if it would just be a social commentary so raw into the subject I would get even worse.

Or maybe neither of the options, Ryukishi can pull off some surprising stuff when he wants to. I don't wanna get spoiled, but I think he knows better than anyone there's no escape from the torment even in the future, if he really did wrote such a precise thing.

Yeah, I think I will hold into it for now. One way or another, I'll probably read it some day, it really got me curious.

Do the best you can, and focus on the good.

>>18309121
He was asked what kind of things Lion likes, he answered "cooking, it's not just for girls! Gender equality and all".

But in the story itself Lion being born a woman barelly make any sense. Men and women have different kind of bodies and gonads are located in different parts of the body.

What the fuck are you guys talking about? The bullying in Higanbana is pretty tame. The only depressing shit is how badly it affects the characters.

I can relate to Nonomiya because I did something really stupid as a 12 year old kid and ruined what could've been a wonderful friendship with a fellow gifted nerd. Basically, my best friend and I got into a fight over something stupid, so all the "alpha" kids took advantage of the situation and suddenly decided to help me with my revenge. The bullying got out of hand and we literally became enemies even though I only wanted to get back at him. And then all the other fuckers started to ignore me again.

Now he's a fucking SJW normie like everyone else, though, so I kind of wish he had killed himself.

>>18309316
Magic never helps anyone either.

>>18309395
I agree, though I think it depends on the kind of work. In some like Persona is language, but I think it kinda worked in Umineko.

>>18309395

Escapism isn't necessarily a bad thing. But in Sayo's case, it didn't help, it just made the problem worse. She had a serious case of extreme escapism.

>>18309395
Umineko has a very good point in the subject given the context however. I don't really think it is in any way disingenuous, and it nails its commentary really well, if you consider the content as a whole.

That's probably why it feels so heartfelt-edly in my opinion, Umineko has too many elements, and they compose altogether its themes surprisingly not convoluted-ly so (nor pretentious either, surprisingly).

I guess the metafictional approach helps a lot to incorporate said core messages (which is also why I think Umineko gets my good side much more than the also great Higurashi).

>>18309316
Magic never helps anyone either.

>>18309395
I agree, though I think it depends on the kind of work. In some like Persona is laughable, but I think it kinda worked in Umineko.

Does Higanbana have any “fate worse than death” type stuff? I can handle the bullying, but shit like that is hard for me to read, especially with my over-active imagination.

>>18309455
Tell him about the rabbits, George.

>>18309458
I already know about that, and it doesn’t shock me as much anymore. Is there anything worse than that?

>>18309433
To each their own, I guess, each of us have different lives after all. To me Higanbana seems to be a collection of relatable bully themed stories Ryukishi probably worked with at some point in his life.

Some (if not all or even none) of the stories may get into you, I guess it depends of the person.

In my opinion is one amazing piece of work for doing that so accurately. Truly a hidden little gem of a VN.

But I also understand how some people wouldn't bat an eye for it. It's pretty personal overall.

The most insidious hell is one that purports itself as a purgatory.

>>18309480
I'm yet to see anyone calling Higanbana a melodrama of any sort, so I guess we are already in better shape than most of the Key stuff here.

I didn't read something that affected people who read it in general that much since Punpun, most likely.

>>18308326
Yasu is not a "transgirl". He's an underdeveloped kid unable to hit puberty because his father/grandfather's doctor friend cut off his genitals and his butler friend lied to him his whole life so he wouldn't find his poorly made boypussy strange. He was perfectly fine before that.

A trans girl does all that shit because she feels like her male body doesn't match her female brain. And they actually take pills and shit to develop tits, and they go a specialized surgeon to turn their dick into a functional pussy.

>>18308066
That makes no sense and you are just using twisted logic. Lion is the same person as Yasu, he doesn't have a different gender. I too wish Lion was a cute girl, but all the evidence points otherwise and the culprit literally has no reason to kill herself if she was really a girl.

Natsuhi had the kid for three days and she KNOWS it was a boy. Once the creepy guy on the phone introduces himself, she never questions his identity.

You could argue that maybe Natsuhi never cared enough to see the baby's genitals or even ask about the gender. But that's just fucking retarded. How can you take care of a baby for three days and still have no clue about something like that? Kinzo and the sevants would eventually mention it. And Natsuhi herself has no reason not to be interested in something as basic as the kid's gender. The story would be fucking stupid if that was the case.

>>18309467

Do you know about the painting?

>>18309455
There is this monster that eats 11 year old kids on a regular basis. His stomach turns them into sentient piles of meat that suffer and burn in the demonic stomach acid for all eternity. We meet a character that eventually ends up like that, so it's pretty disturbing.

Can't believe that people still believe in Shkanon, Ryukishi deceived all of you.

Where the heck can I download Higanbana with English translation

>>18308326
>all those tracks with castrato singers in EP7
>still denying it

>>18309557
Haven’t heard anything about a painting.

>>18309573
Yeah that’s the type of stuff that really fucks me up. How spooked were you after reading it?

>>18309546
Yo, calm down

That was just a theory.

And the only evidence you people have was an alternative translation from Yen Press, in japanese it was way more in the lines of "sophisticated brat" instead of "boy". Inaccurate, official or not, translations are a thing, especially for Umineko here, which had to be phenomenally retranslated for Steam.

My point remains, Natsuhi KNOWS it is a boy when it comes to Yasu. And she threw said boy from the abyss with the servant. We are talking about a very twisted miracle kakera, where even the family is particularly "happy", and Kinzo is fucking alive still. Lion is a completely different person from Yasu and it's obvious why. What I'm proposing is that the reason why no tragedy happened would be because Beatrice II's baby was from a different sex, and that's no problem at all. Your arguments are all over the place with you getting Yasu in the picture. I'm taking him out of the picture, he is a he the end. This is the miracle twisted kakera was that shouldn't even be possible after all. And for what reason that would be so? That's where my proposal enters.

Chill, anon, it's not even nonsensical as you are trying to make it seem. You are the one who seems in denial for me barely mentioning a theory about something never actually made explicit by Word of God.

>>18309606
>And the only evidence you people have was an alternative translation from Yen Press, in japanese it was way more in the lines of "sophisticated brat" instead of "boy".

It was boy in Japanese too. 坊っちゃん

>>18309617

B-but the manga isn't canon! right? Anything that isn't in the vn is not what ryukishi wanted so it doesn't count

>>18309624
I reject your canon and substitute my fanfiction.

>>18309624
Yeah why the OFFICIAL manga would be canon.

>>18309624

坊っちゃん was used in the visual novel there too.

As a bullied kid, higanbana touched my heart.

>>18309606
>>18309617

Only thing wrong is that the translation would be in the lines of "young master" (someone from a rich family and stuff).

But again, we attribute this kind of pronoun to tomboys and vice versa depending of the situation (we have an use of bocchan in Utena, for a random example, and that was referring to a girl), especially when joking around about a given subject (someone acting like a little prick of an aristocrat may apply).

It's not like because someone was called "young master" that said person is necessarily a man. That's about it, continue with the discussion. I'm just your average nihonjin anon giving some depth to the discussion.

Lion is really flat to be a girl, i mean you can't be that flat at 19 years old no matter what.

>>18309657

Especially if Lion really is a child of Beatrice, if he were a girl, he would be all blonde and bouncy, just as Battler likes it.

>>18309606
Lion is basically a fantasy character and doesn't really exist. That's why he has golden hair, looks like an androgynous fag and his world can be fucked up by Bernkastel to include real golden roses, magic and Shannon/Kanon. He can be a girl if you want, but that weakens the story in my opinion. If Lion was a girl, she'd be a different person and her existence wouldn't mean shit to Beato.

Bern is lying about the low probability thing. She intentionally chose a world where Lion attends the funeral with a faggy hairstyle to confuse Will.

Kinzo is a sexist old man and he wouldn't suddenly change his views (which he believes are correct and lead to happiness) just because he wants Beatrice's child to be the successor. If Lion was a girl, Kinzo wouldn't train her to be the head. He would train her to be a good wife and support her future husband.

You could argue that Kinzo wouldn't be a dick to his precious child. But he's not being a dick. From his perspective, his sexist ways are correct and not evil. Men and women have different roles in society.

>>18309649
Well, my bad, I actually was bluffing about the japanese part admittedly. Still, I guess that still works then.

Sorry for being pretentious yet again, I forget there are japanese people in this general.

>>18309671
I never got why people have issue with Lion's appearance. He's no different from the other characters having bizzare hairs that don't fit Japan.

Christ, his sister is the same and could pass for Beatrice's child too.

>>18309664
Maybe Lion is not actually flat. Could be using those things noble people use that kinda obscures the volume of the breasts.

Lion did said to follow some preferential sense of style to Willard.

Not Lion or Yasu ever existed! Shannon and Kanon are not the same person. Please read the novels again and you will find the real truth.

>>18309649
When Will first meets Lion, he has no clue who the fuck he is and even asks Bernkastel if Lion is some bullshit character she introduced as her piece.

He refers to Lion as 坊っちゃん after that.

Will only asks Lion about his gender AFTER he figures out that Lion is Beatrice. That's the first time he goes "wait, this doesn't make any sense, how can this faggot be Beatrice in another world?" and brings up the subject. He assumed Lion was a guy before that.

>>18309690
Why?

>>18309671
Kinzo is trying forever to redeem himself for what he done to Beatrice the second.

I can imagine him being completely devoted to Lion regardless of sex desu.

>Lion is a girl
This reminds me of the old discussion in which people came up all kind of weird stuff about Lion's genitals.

Really, you are making this more hard than it is. R07 pretty much answered about Lion during that twitter q&a.

And Lion and Yasu are the same person, that's the whole point. Yasu see the fall from the cliff as the moment her life was ruined and her fate was sealed. The catbox was opened, stop thinking about weird conspiracy theories.

>>18309698
Plus when Will brings it up too, Lion says the question came out of nowhere. So it went:

Will: I thought you were just some rich boy but you've got guts
Lion: Hell yeah
Will: Wait you're Beatrice are you actually a girl
Lion: What the fuck m8

>>18309698
He assumed it was a guy before, and suddenly ask himself "wait, but what if he is a lady?". To which Lion refuses to answer while saying something along the lines of "does it really matter?". Yeah, that sounds fishy to me as well. Typical tomboy dialogue from those romcom mangos I've read some years ago.

>>18309700
Because Lion wants to? Leave Lion have the style he/she wants to have dammit.

>>18309371
Willard makes a similar assumption in the original Japanese as well, which happens very early on in their interaction, not too long after introducing themselves to each other.

>お坊ちゃん

>>18309725
Why is it so hard for you accept Lion is male?

>>18309702
Not him, but the issue is that Kinzo doesn't see himself as sexist, he sees his ways as noble and rightful.

That's why Eva, despite being more intelligent and procreative of Kraus, should go back to the kitchen and learn to support Hideyoshi, because in his eyes it would lead to happiness.

>>18309709
>And Lion and Yasu are the same person, that's the whole point. Yasu see the fall from the cliff as the moment her life was ruined and her fate was sealed. The catbox was opened, stop thinking about weird conspiracy theories.

B-but then I would be gay desu.

>>18309751

>>18309760

>>18309738
I was going along that line, since I just consider Yasu=Lion to be just that.

But they are very different versions of the same individual, so much that their appearance is not even close to similar, even in the whole expliciticity of the manga. So yeah, I'm going with the unconfirmed route for Lion's gender.

Yasu is still a tranny tho, nothing will change that... [Spoiler] and to me that's fucking hot [/spoiler]

I want to see an anti-Erika character.

>>18309771

Battler.

>>18309765
I appreciate your agreement, but how about we stop with the tranny thing?

>>18309751
>>18309760
>>18309762
I don't like how young Kinzo seems like a cool dude like Battler and then he turns out to be a dickhead grandpa hundred years later. I wonder how Battler ended up being like.

>>18309765
Lion being a girl unnecessarily complicates everything but being a boy fits in perfectly with everything. Appearance doesn't fucking matter with Ryukishi art.

>>18309776
It was normal be like that in those times, not a good thing for sure.

>>18309751
That's irrelevant, Kinzo literally became crazy after Beatrice the second died.

Knowing the child was alive made him completely devoted to Lion and Yasu in their respective kakeras at a certain point. Hell, the epitaph was pretty much made for Yasu from Kinzo (without abandoning his way of being).

>>18309793
Not a question of devotion. It's that Kinzo's idea of devotion towards a girl Lion would be to treat her like a girl and future wife.

>>18309702
>I believe that women should be housewives because they are shit at doing things meant for men
>I want my daughter's daughter to be happy so I can repent for my sin
>Therefore, I will raise this girl to be the head, have her study finance and work on her leaderships skills even though I believe she'll do a terrible job and fail at life because she's a woman
Dude, give it up. Lion is a man and Kinzo raised him as a man because he believes that's the best for him.

>>18309781
It doesn't really complicates anything. Lion still represents what it should regardless of the gender he/she may have in the miracle kakera. Ryukishi himself said that in an interview, the necessary information is still there just fine.

Lion's real gender compared to Yasu's is literally irrelevant, regardless of not ever being stated for good.

That is just a think some idiots in our fanbase care too much about because "muh yaoi (or not) shipping" or "muh waifu" etc...

C'mon, people...

>>18309809
Right in the kokoro.

>>18309823
>Lion's real gender compared to Yasu's is literally irrelevant, regardless of not ever being stated for good.
Lion's gender is meant to be another clue for Yasu's ie he is male. Lion = Yasu without being thrown off the cliff. Yasu not thrown off the cliff = Male. Lion = Male. Anything else is unnecessarily complicated for no good reason.

Even if Lion is a boy, I think for Sayo it doesn't matter as long as she lives a healthy life. She would appreciate either one.

>>18309809
That was the case for Beatrice II, and the biggest fear for Genji. But that proved not to be the case in the manga, as Kinzo only ever wanted to redeem himself before death. The Kinzo we've seen is a distortion written by a disgusted Yasu thinking the same would apply to him have him be a girl. Confession really covered up this stuff well, besides being side material.

>>18309765
Lion is taller than all three of trannyboy's personas in the manga. He's a guy.

I love how even when the catbox was opened, beatrice true self was confirmed, we still can discuss about Umineko.

>>18309771
Will and Battler are basically that

>>18309846
>Lion = Yasu without being thrown off the cliff. Yasu not thrown off the cliff = Male. Lion = Male. Anything else is unnecessarily complicated for no good reason

Except Lion was never stated to be a male, and suspiciously enough, Lion didn't answered to Willard when he mixed up for being a guy while later asking Lion about his sex.

That shouldn't be a detail to be ignored either, mind you. Yasu was pretty much confirmed male, but Lion was the other way around.

Lion is a miraculous possibility that shouldn't even exist, it could be male or female without hurting any canon from Rokkenjima Prime.


There are uncountable possibilities of outcomes in the universe, you can't possibly be saying one with Lion being a girl is suddenly impossible, especially when it's such a mashed up kakera.