/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I can't take this anymore!

>>17685473
頑張って!

Okay, polling time!

http://www.strawpoll.me/14014600

かいさんした

こっかいと

たつきが

I've just started and wonder what's up with this particular thing: I heard a person telling a story from their life and they mention their own given names and it sounds like they talk about themselves in the 3rd person, could anyone explain it?
It's like Reina talks about a story that happened and she says 'Reina wa ...', why isn't 'watashi' used instead?

>>17685514
Where is the "i don't use anki" option

>>17685558
But of course everyone uses Anki, except a few deviants maybe.

僕はいやらしすぎ

>>17685589
みっつくらい意味があるから

どれかわからないよ


正確にはわかるんですけど

>>17685473
堪忍袋の緒が切た？

>>17685611
*切れた

>>17685606
>みっつくらい意味があるから
全部の意味をしたんだけどさ

I learned 183 kanji, 8% of desired ones
it feels good

>>17685778
Whose desire?

>>17685824
mine
learning the 2030 kanji commonly used

>>17685544
It's a girl's childish way to say "I".

Why is airport 空港 if they could just switch the water radical in 港 with

>>17685544
>>17685894
FYI nobody older than age 5 uses this in real life.

>>17685922
Except girls who try too hard to be cute.

>>17685544
Too add to what the other anon said its also pretty common for adult girls to talk to their parents with their name instead of watashi. Some older boys also use this but its seen as a bit weird I think

Is sakubi any good or is it just a meme?

>>17685937
try it and find out for us

>>17685470
So are there actual Japanese learners here or is it just people discussing learning methods?

>>17685922
https://youtu.be/eXpyr0aVkHM?t=9m12s

>>17685973
I already learned Japanese

What's your excuse for wasting time in DJT when you could be reading, listening, doing your reps, or otherwise doing something productive towards learning Japanese right now?

>>17685973
how does discussing learning methods exclude the fact of learning Japanese?

>>17685985
Cool. Wanna discuss the methods you used?

>>17685989
idk. i don't really care about "reps" or "learning" or "listening" or "reading". i just want to find the best learning techniques.

>>17685995
https://youtu.be/ikm_gL7-mZs?t=93

>>17685982
lol and?

>>17685985
so lets talk about shit that matters give me your kakyusei tier list

>>17685989
to protect and serve all "DEKINAIS"

>>17686015
i'm pretty sure i saw this being used on /djt/ /int/

>>17686018
>DEKINAIS
lol! true...

is anki really just a meme?

>>17686027
If you cannot do that, you either are mentally deficient a.k.a. retarded (in which case see a doctor) or you don't care enough to learn Japanese a.k.a. retarded (in which case see a doctor).

How to reach fluency?

>>17686027
I never used it, yet can now read comfortably and passed the N2 a couple of years ago

>>17686041
Buy Genki
Do Genki
Buy next textbook
Do next textbook
Now go back to Genki
Buy another textbook
Do Textbook
Go back to 2nd textbook
Get another new textbook
and so on

How true is this?
"You don't know a language, you live it. You don't learn a language, you get used to it."

>>17686049
so deep :^)

>>17686045

People also learned Japanese and other languages before the internet even existed, but having more available resources and tools is still obviously beneficial.

>>17686056
I get it. It's hard for you ESLs and I'm not blaming you for being one. Just don't insert yourself into discussions which are clearly beyond your English level.

>>17686027
That question doesn’t have a short — or permanent — answer. Nor, in my opinion, should it. Why? Because it’s always evolving, and people always need clarification.

>>17686056
>obviously
Are you sure?

>>17686056
Having more resources available is obviously a good thing, but no resource is objectively better than others, different things work for different people.

>>17686069
>obviously
Are you sure?

>>17686074
Yes, I am, actually.

>>17686082
Gomenasai

>>17686041
I'm sure there's some appropriate Kami to pray to.

>>17685993
Tae Kim - First month
Anki - First two years*
Reading - Started after first year, still going now three years later (total of 4 years studying)
Googling shit I don't understand/recognize - Entire four years
That's actually it. Wow, learning Japanese sure is 簡単!
*Decks used in order: Radical deck, Core2k/6k up to card 3,000 ish, Mining deck (8k total cards), DOJG deck

>>17686041
if its your first year or 2, stick to textbooks, they have reading exercises with vocab lists and grammar lessons to go alongside the texts
its really the best method

>>17686105
This is literally the worst possible advice to give, you can sincerely fuck up someone's life by saying this I am not kidding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5IPArDxO40

>>17686041
Hiragana - First month
Katakana - First two monts
Kanji - First two years
Reading - Started about a month ago

>>17686058

The heck are you on about?

>>17686069

Sure, my point was "I didn't use anki but learned the language anyway" doesn't really mean anything since it's just an auxiliary tool and obviously not a requirement. Doesn't mean one shouldn't take advantage of it if possible.

anyone else study better after getting really mad? when i got mad while learning hira and kana i would punch the shit out of my dresser until i couldn't feel my hand and after that i felt my retention went up and was able to remember stroke more easily

Now that they officially have japanese, How is duolingo for learning kata/hiragana

>>17686105
never give anyone advice ever again

>>17685989
I already did my reps for the day and I'm too hungry to really do anything useful.

>>17685470
what are some good books (for EOPs) about modern japanese history—particularly with regards to the bubble economy, the lost decades, and music/animu?

Why the fuck wouldn't you start reading immediately when you've learned kana?

What is it supposed to mean when a sentence just ends with を? It's not trailing, it just seems to end right at that point.
I've seen sentences I (think) I understand if I just ignore the を and others that don't make sense with or without it.

>>17686131
to actually learn the kana of course

>>17686131

Probably since you need grammar, otherwise "reading" is no different from looking at random words in a vacuum.

>>17686135
Read more

>>17686131
because you dont know anything most likely
now if you have years and years of watching jp telly and listening to music and thus have some sort of background then you have more to work with but its still spotty at best leaving you boundless without any kind of structure to put things together from the most basic to the more complex

anyone that hasnt been bouncing back and forth between resources already should just put in the time to do vjg and the associated review materials in addition to learning kana and the vocab that vjg tells you to learn for each lesson and then take that into reading your nhk easies and whatever other stupid shit kids do and then make it a point to learn the syntax used in japanese dictionary so you can quickly stop using english crutches to learn japanese and i guarantee you if youre putting in the time to direct your own learning and specifying specific things to study and mastering them your life will be very easy as long as you dont neglect the most important thing which is not utilizing other human beings

just do it and do it right and dont be a bitch and youll outgrow this thread in like 6 to 8 weeks easy also quoting the op arbitrarily >>17685470

>>17686157
literally the ravings of a crazy person

>>17686157
i meant utilize other human beings i was just running out of breath with that really long run on sentence like its really important to interact with people 世界を抱いて etc

umm guys I immediately went to reading after learning kana but where does the word ends?? It‘s just a string of random characters!?

>>17686135
You need to actually post the sentence if you want help. It can mean the sentence is out of order or the verb has been omitted.

>>17686177
You're right, I'm dumb. I've seen it before but forgot to ask about it, and now that I wanted to ask about it I forgot to post the sentence.
>では私もにっこりサーバルちゃんを
The sentence itself isn't that important and now that you mentioned it probably means the verb is omitted, which in retrospect should have been painfully obvious to me all along, it makes sense to me that the person who wrote it omitted 描いた since he is an artist and he posted a picture he drew along with that comment.

>>17686157
>vjg
What is that?

>>17686170
haha yeah its kind of crazy also kanji all look like little houses

>>17686194
https://www2.gwu.edu/~eall/vjg/vjghomepage/vjghome.htm
even if im responding in vain if theres a chance i could save a life i will do it

>>17686018
>lol and?
And a person older than 5 is using it IRL.
But yeah, it's to seem cute.

>>17686146
Why not both? I'm only half way into tae kim and I started a little more than 2 weeks ago. The day after I learned kana I started reading easy material just to get words and letters to flow. In fact, when I started tae kim I obviously couldn't read shit and I had to go through each letter in the examples. However by reading an hour a day and doing anki I can simply look at the majority of the examples in tae kim and immediately I have the flow in my head.

>>17686229

You should indeed do both. But there are people who avoid grammar, presumably because they find it complex and intimidating, and focus on kana/vocab/kanji first which is 100% not the way to go.

whats an super easy ln to read?

i want something i can read on my kobo while comfy in my bed.

i got a jp>e dict

>>17686273
I've been reading キノの旅. It's good, but I can't read one chapter in one sitting, and that annoys me a bit.

>>17686273
Forget LNs. Check out terribly written web novels if you want a true easy read. Written by authentic children!

>>17668763 again
I'm thinking of expanding the deck to include all prefectural capitals, special cities, core cities and designated cities, and maybe the special wards of Tokyo as well.

Would there be any interest in that? If so, I can upload the resulting deck when I'm done (provided I go through with it).

Are the names of Japanese cities as random as Japanese names?
Is there a pattern to the use of kanji and how they are read?

>>17686362
what do you mean

>>17686333
>Would there be any interest in that?
I would be, man. That deck is great, almost as great as some of those regional flags.
Seriously, Japan has some cool regional flags.

>>17686362
Are you trying to imply that cities in America do not have random names?

>>17686362
Yes and yes

>>17686333
Okay, I'm already noticing a problem with doing this. In Osaka (and elsewhere, but mainly Osaka), many cities are extremely close to one another and I'm struggling to think of a good way of distinguishing them on the cards.

Pic related for example. These are two different cities but the location is so close that it would be really difficult to tell which one you are being asked to identify (especially when the image is downscaled to fit on the card). And to make matters worse, they are both core cities, so it's not like I can distinguish them by the type of city they are.

The only thing I can think of is including population data on the fronts of the cards. Can anyone think of a better approach?

I'm just starting and this makes me smile every time

>>17686371
Are you implying I'm a retarded Americlap?

>>17686471
How about not going full autist and learning every city in Japan

>>17686471
Okay, so after looking at the Wikipedia pages, there seem to be two viable means of distinguishing cities:
1. Population size (+density?)
2. Total area

The only alternative seems to be marking their sister/friendship cities on the map with them, but unless said cities are special/core/designated then they won't have existing markers on the map I'm working with so I would have to manually add them myself, and I really can't be bothered to. There's also the problem that some might not even have sister/friendship cities, or if they do they might only be ones outside of Japan.

>>17686496
It's not every city, just the important ones that I imagine most Japanese people know the location of. When I hear someone talking about a city, I want to know where it is without having to look it up.

I was just thinking that it's pretty pointless to learn prefecture names if you can't even name a single major city in them.

>>17686471
やまひとつこえれば

ことばはちょっとづつかわるよ

Should I learn hiragana or katana first?

>>17686550
>learn
You should start READING.

>>17686538
>When I hear someone talking about a city, I want to know where it is without having to look it up.

Why not just go City name -> Prefecture name name then? Generally the thing on the front of the card should be the same as what you'll be seeing in the wild. I don't think you're going to be seeing many dots on a map and population counts in the wild.

>>17686550
It depends on what kind of katana you want to learn. Most sensei would recommend a wooden sword first. Real katana are no joking matter.

>>17686550
I would go with Katana. If worst comes to worst you will at least be able to defend yourself somewhat.

たつきが

けもフレをやめさせられた理由が

たつき監督はけもフレ同人するから

だって

同人したらアウトってふつう？

>>17686589
しるか

枕うけてたＰさんたちが

たつきが同人して声優きめたりしたら

枕とられるから

だだこねてたつき解雇したっていう事情もありそう

>>17686569
That might be a good way of doing it. Then on the reverse of the card, along with the prefecture name, I could show the map image with the prefecture on it, so you still get some visual reinforcement of where the city is.

Or would it be better to use an image like the one I posted earlier with a dot showing the city instead?

See pic related for example cards. To those who are interested in this deck, which do you think is best? I think the middle one looks the nicest and it would be hardly any extra work to make the cards like that compared to the text-only version on the left. The right option would be the most work since I would have to do some manual image editing for every card, but it wouldn't take too much more effort.

I just finished learning the kana and have no knowledge in grammar/vocab besides stuff I picked up from random anime. What should I use to learn grammar/vocab/Kanji now? I looked at the guide but I don't know what would be best to learn next, as most resources use Kanji I don't know.

>>17686684
You should reading. Grammar is a waste of time.

>>17686678
Oh, and do you think it's worth making flag cards for cities or is that just a waste of time?

I feel like Japanese people probably don't know them, except maybe the one for their own city, and maybe those of famous ones like Osaka. I'm curious whether most Japanese people even know the flags for prefectures, actually.

why do people suggest "reading" and not "reading stuff that is comprehensible to you"

>>17686684
Next step is to give up cause you can't learn Japanese.

>>17686736
Because you are already reading things that are comprehensible to you.

>>17686736
If you are reading stuff that is already comprehensible to you without any effort, then you are not learning anything.

Your input should be at least a partially incomprehensible. It is when you make incomprehensible input comprehensible, through tools such as J-E dictionaries, that you learn and grow.

>>17686782
Sometimes not learning is really fun.

>>17686538
Do some of the Japanese city/prefecture quizzes on Sporcle. I found them pretty useful for remembering places.

>>17686812
Yes, but this is a thread about learning Japanese, not a thread about how to have fun.

Learning Japanese IS fun!

>>17686362
Nanori it's called I think?
I don't know.

Why is it that both Daijirin and Daijisen insist on classifying kami-ichidan verbs like 通じる as sa-hen 通ずる? How common is this anymore?

Two questions, sorry to be annoying.

Is '私は緑茶のためにそれを使用する' correct for 'I will use it for green tea'? It seems too busy.

Secondly, is there a Japanese equivalent for 'get it?' when telling a joke? I've tried Googling it but I haven't had much luck.

>>17686907
well you dont need 私は for this but basically your conceptualization is the fucked up thing here more or less

as for the second question why not just lightly elbow nudge while saying な?

>>17686362
They usually tend to Japanese readings more than they do to Chinese readings, but there are also funky readings you only even see in place names.
You may not be able to guess previously unseen names with certainty, but you can easily get to the point where you see a name and transcribe it with an IME, which allows you to look up the reading in a dictionary.

>>17686930
I agree it's fucked up, I'm very much in the trial and error stage of writing my own sentences. Would you have any recommendations making it neater? And thank you for the second answer.

>>17686907
Why didn't you use 使う?

>>17687039
美味しい緑茶を淹れるためにはこれを使う＊アンジップs＊

なー？

>>17686112
http://slideplayer.com/slide/9722393/31/images/11/Arousal+and+Performance.jpg

無茶苦茶セックスしたいねん

>>17686903
They don't classify 通じる as a サ変 verb, they just reference the definition of 通ずる to explain 通じる because they're exactly the same except for the conjugation and 通ずる is the older form.

From Daijisen:
>しん・じる【信じる】
>［動ザ上一］「しん（信）ずる」（サ変）の上一段化。「無罪を―・じる」
Verb, za-row upper one-grade conjugation. From the sa-row irregular verb 信ずる, made into an upper one-grade verb.

From Daijirin:
>しんじる【信じる】
>（ 動ザ上一 ）
>〔サ変動詞「信ずる」の上一段化〕
>「 信ずる 」に同じ。 「ひとの言葉を－・じる」 「もう人間が－・じられない
Verb, za-row upper one-grade conjugation.
A form of the sa-row irregular verb 信ずる, made into an upper one-grade verb.
The same as 信ずる.

Both dictionaries correctly classify 信じる as 上一段.

The vast majority of サ行変格 verbs are compound words made up of noun+す(る), and this includes Chinese words like 信（しん）, 感（かん）, 通（つう）. In many cases the す in する becomes voiced, but these words are still classified as サ変, rather than creating a new ザ行変格 category.
Because the 未然形 of the voiced サ変 verbs never ends in ～ざ, the conjugation comes to resemble a 上二段 conjugation, and in modern Japanese 二段 verbs overwhelmingly became 一段. This lead to the voiced サ変 verbs being transformed into ザ行上一段 verbs via analogy, but the new forms did not completely replace the previous サ変 forms and words like 論ずる are still sometimes seen.
In non-voiced サ変 verbs, like 愛す（る）, the 未然形 ～さ is used alongside ～し and　～せ, and so instead of 上二段 they come to resemble 五段 (四段) verbs. This lead to them becoming 五段 verbs instead of 一段, but again the 五段 forms like 愛す did not completely replace the サ変 forms like 愛する and both are still used.

You can read about this in Japanese here:
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B5%E8%A1%8C%E5%A4%89%E6%A0%BC%E6%B4%BB%E7%94%A8
Specifically the 語尾が濁音の場合 and 変化の傾向 sections.

>>17686324
Re;Zero was harder than Goblin Slayer.

>>17687079
普通のsexしたことないだろ

何をどこに入れるかわかるかちゃんと

>>17687133
男とヤったことあるやん
女か男かどうでもええやん、セックスしてえっ！

I found something intersting for those among you who are more advanced.
Now you can watch lectures about different subjects in japanese.

https://ocw.hokudai.ac.jp/?lang=en&page=home

>>17687123
Complicated... Tae Kim lied to me when he said that only two irregular verbs exist.

What kikitori practice options do I have other than anime?

碧色

Fuck colors

あなたの色はどんな色かな

>>17687656
ピンク

>>17687656
寂色

：（

>>17687656
カイロ

ははははは

>>17687656
赤

>>17687656
青と黄色

>>17687656
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duWTfl4MJ1c

〜寺　ジ
保持　ホ・ジ
時間　ジ・カン
詩　シ
期待　キ・タイ
特別　トク・ベツ

WHY CHINESE PEOPLE
Was keeping a single phonetic theme for 寺 too hard?

Why do they spam 8888888 at the end of some nico videos? Is that supposed to be like an applause?

>>17686678
Well, nobody seems to care, but here's a preliminary version. Would appreciate any feedback on the design.

Front:
City (kanji)

Back:
City (furigana), Prefecture (furigana)
City type (designated/core/special)
Prefecture map


Not sure whether to keep the city type bit or not. I think the card would look better without it and I don't know if it's really even important to know. I'm going to be tagging cards according to their type anyway, so people will be able to use the tags to suspend/delete types of cities they don't care about learning.

>>17687857
yeah
八八八八八八八
ハハハハハハハ

>>17687857
it's パチパチパチパチ（はちはちはち）

>>17687878
分かる

あかちゃんのもと
I assume this is what everyone translates as "baby batter"?

How does one make a past tense volitional form verb? Rikaisama doesn't recognise: 言おった

Is 言おうとした the only way?

>>17687959
There is no past tense volitional form

protip dont google image 切断 while eating

Is there a better way to learn writing/stroke order while using the core 2k anki deck than looking up each kanji individually? I want to learn how to write, so what should I do?

>>17688034
>I want to learn how to write
Do you know japanese?

>>17688042
No, I just started using anki but I figure it would be better to learn now. Should I just learn to write later then?

>>17688050
Learn writing later. It's too time consuming to learn to write all the kanji when you're still learning basic japanese.

>>17688050
>>17688055
Also once you've learned a few hundred different kanji the stroke order becomes extremely predictable and even if you come across a brand new kanji you've never seen there's a good chance you can guess the stroke order correctly.

>>17688050
You don't need to learn to write unless you are bothered about specifically being able to handwrite whole paragraphs of Japanese text as they are dictated to you. Being able to write kanji has no effect on your being able to read them, as odd as it sounds.

You did watch the last episode of the AOTY already, right?

>>17688060
>>17688063
>>17688055
Alright thanks, I'll just learn to write later.

Recently began learning Hiragana, have books for both Hiragana and Katakana (stroke order practice books), im having fun, just wondering if my current pace is considered too fast or slow with 5-10 hiragana each day?

>>17688114
As a correction i am not attempting to learn specifically how to write first, I just find it more comfortable to go through stroke orders of a letter to better understand it for reading later.

>>17688114
You just need to learn 1 Hiragana/Katakana/Kanji per day.

>>17688124
Thanks man

>>17688114
You should aim to be "familiar" with at least the hiragana in less than a week after starting. Any slower than that is too slow. You should be able to reliably recognize almost every individual hiragana and katakana in isolation in less than a month after starting. Any slower than that is too slow.

>>17688114

If you ever want to learn the language, that is way too slow. Not going to lie.

I can‘t believe people here are so patronizing. Ever thought that certain people can’t help being slow? Just let them do at their own pace.

>>17688211

They need to know how much work is ahead of them.

>>17688211
There's a difference between being slow and not trying. Anybody who isn't spectacularly mentally unfit is going to be able to learn to recognize the kana in a month and can maintain a minimum of five new vocabulary items per day in Anki.

>>17688114
Learning that stuff is <0.1% of what it takes to learn Japanese so it matters very little.

>>17688220
>kana in a month
This is something a toddler could do.

>>17688248
Cool story dude.

>>17688248
I too memorised kana in a day (probably within an hour of real time) but it took me a bit longer to start reading it fluently, especially katakana.

>>17688266
how much kanji do you need to read VNs? 2000? 6000?

>>17688290
kanji aren't words

>>17688266
>memorised ... in a day
>but it took me a bit longer to start reading it fluently
Then you didn't memorize it in a day, moron.

>>17688290
Kanji are not words, but you'll need at least 2000 anyway. You won't need 6000, but some from the extended range will appear here and there. The VNs I tried had furigana over those, but not always. IDK

>>17688302
I was able to recall the readings from memory, only very slowly at first. So I think I did commit them to memory even if it wasn't the kind of memory from which shapes of writing are recalled to enable fluent reading. I did it the memorisation at a young age so that was easy. I did not start actually learning Japanese until years later.

>>17688323
Children are worse at committing to rote memorization than adults but better at memorizing non-systematic things if applying the same commitment to the memorization. This is why brainwashing is so effective.

>>17688334
Okay, that probably was dishonest of me. It was so long ago I don't actually remember how I learned kana. There was an image that showed the entire gojuon table twice per syllabary with indications of stroke order and direction and I practised writing it a few times over, then I remembered it the way you remember the gojuon table, by columns (行) indicating the consonant and rows (段) indicating the vowel. That was one day. On the following days I would force myself to remember it as あ・い・う・え・お, か・き・く・け・こ etc. If I forgot a character I'd chant something like さ・し・す・せ・そ and that way it'd come back to memory. That was how I learnt to write but I don't exactly remember how I learnt to read. It's possible I cheated during that process. I remember doing a kana drill at some early point but it was pointless as I already recognised everything pretty quickly.

>>17688290
as others have stated, kanji are not your marker, but words
http://wiki.wareya.moe/Stats

>>17688444
>>17688323

I did the same. I'd draw the entire grid several times a day. I couldn't really read kana at a useful speed until years after.

>>17686333
Designated and core cities done. Will do special cities and Tokyo's special wards tomorrow.

Also, I'm thinking of expanding the deck further to include the locations of significant places like Mt. Fuji, Himeji Castle and so on. Then the deck would contain pretty much everything anyone would ever need to know about the geography of Japan.

うんこしたい

>>17688508
同感

>>17688534
互いの口に直脱糞しよっか

>>17688556
否

このうんこ食べなさい今すぐ

OK minna, do you have any opinions on how usefull for conversation it is to learn Core6k via Anki? Are you capable of using a vocabulary fluently, or should I modify cards to show English definition as question? I am not sure if I will be able to work it both ways in a long run.

もう出るぞ 口開けろbaby

>>17688603
Yeah, you definitely want to add E->J cards, otherwise you will never know which word to use

>>17688624
You learn that automatically through extensive input. And without extensive input, you're not going to be able to speak fluently anyway.

>>17688603

I have no problem going from English to Japanese, despite never having done cards that way around.

体が少し軽くなってきたような気がする

>>17688624
>>17688651
>>17688656
Thanks for answers!
So far I am doing well, but I am putting conversation as a priority ATM. That's why I am wondering. I probably will test after I do next 200 kanji and see how I do the other way.

>>17687959
This will be way over your head and is pointless, but...
There is no such thing as a "volitional form" in Japanese. What people call the "volitional form" sometimes is actually an auxiliary verb う or よう attached to the 未然形 imperfective form of a verb. う and よう are what I suppose linguists would call "modal" auxiliary verbs, expressing that something is likely to happen in the future, or that it is only proper that something should happen in the future. In this sense, the "volitional form" is really the closest thing that Japanese has to a "future tense" like we have in English (although obviously not exactly the same) and therefore suggesting that you should be able to conjugate it into the past tense is silly. But as an extension of this speculative (推量) meaning they can also be used to express that the speaker hopes something will happen in the future, and from there it can be said to express 意志 or volition.

The auxiliary verb う is descended from the classical auxiliary verb む, which had the same meaning plus some meanings that う has lost, and in classical Japanese it actually did have a past-tense equivalent, the auxiliary verb けむ, which derives from a combination of some form of the past-tense auxiliaries き or けり and む. けむ could be used to express the same speculation or conjecture as む but about the past instead of the present. To express this in modern Japanese you would have to add something like だろう to a "past tense" form, like 言っただろう, or conjugate the "past tense" auxiliary into the 未然形 and add ～う, like 言ったろう. This is actually conjugating the past tense into the volitional form, the opposite of what you were trying to do with "言おった".

So a "past tense volitional form verb" is impossible, but the closest thing to an answer to your question would be 言いけむ in classical Japanese or 言っただろう or 言ったろう in modern spoken Japanese.

>>17688746
you can do flash cards but it aint gonna teach you what to say to folks in normal ways for japanese

>>17688758
Gotcha, any tips on how to work on that other than practice listening?

>>17688757
>言いけむ in classical Japanese
Even I know that that would be 言ひけむ!

>>17688766
use whatever you learn from whatever youre doing to converse anyway
the pain in doing so will makes things stick that much more when your conversation partner throws you the bones

>>17688775
仮名遣いは兎に角

>>17688746
Why are you putting priority on conversation? Do you plan on travelling to Japan in the near future? If not, I cant think of a lot of reasons why you would do it. Are you going to speak to people who are proficient at japanese? If so, use those conversations to learn.

>>17688757
>けむ could be used to express the same speculation or conjecture as む but about the past instead of the present.
I meant future, not present. Present would be らむ.

>>17688784

I am >>17683507
I just want to be able to communicate with my team, also I want to impress during my skype interview. The job itself depends on my concept design portfolio, but if I speak Japanese well enough to communicate verbally with the team, that will give me a huge edge over other applicants.

>>17688779
>兎に角
もっともこんなのが見たくない

>>17688798
Try the /int/ version of DJT. This thread is just for autists reading visual novels and manga with no interest in the real Japan.

>>17688757
>There is no such thing as a "volitional form" in Japanese.
There is, "volitional form" is just the wrong name.

>What people call the "volitional form" sometimes is actually an auxiliary verb う or よう attached to the 未然形 imperfective form of a verb.
Fake grammar.

>う and よう are what I suppose linguists would call "modal" auxiliary verbs,
The ~ou ending is a bonafide first rate infection. よう is, however, an auxiliary, like you say.

>expressing that something is likely to happen in the future, or that it is only proper that something should happen in the future
You don't know Japanese.

>In this sense, the "volitional form" is really the closest thing that Japanese has to a "future tense" like we have in English
No, ていく is much closer to a "future tense", and てく is used as a "poor man's future tense" in casual speech if it would be unfitting to use the polite nonpast form of the verb as an expression of future intent.

>But as an extension of this speculative (推量) meaning they can also be used to express that the speaker hopes something will happen in the future, and from there it can be said to express 意志 or volition.
The "volitional" (hortative) meaning has become the primary aspect of the ~ou form for 五段 verbs at the bare minimum, regardless of dialect. I can say more about 一段 verbs but it's not necessary.

>>17688807
OK, thanks for the tip!

>>17688818
have fun being surrounded by national supremacists

>>17688818
no dont go dont leave me here alone with these disgusting fake otaku except the etymology dude hes on that マジで半端ない shit

>>17688817
>You don't know Japanese.

Neither do you, sakubi retard.

>>17688851
I'm not your boogeyman, dude.

>>17688309

>>17688844
I will stick around, but I don't think I can be of any use. I have nothing but questions to post here. That, and cute girls.

>>17688856
Yes you are. Now go do your reps on that shitty flashcard program of yours, you smug poser shithead.

>>17688876
I have literally no idea what you're talking about. Do you respond like this to anyone that points out your bullshit?

Is there any downside to stopping new cards for Core at 1300 and doing pure mining? It's annoying forgetting words I'm seeing constantly in reading and having to learn new words that aren't immediately related.

>>17688880
There are nothing but upsides.

>>17688880
No.

>>17688865
just enjoy the show

>>17688876
ill be your boogerman baby just hit me up on the low low or the 上々

>>17688876

There's literally nothing wrong with having an anki deck of 40000 cards.

>>17688880

Add new cards to a second deck, review them, then move them to the main deck so you can skip the order.

It's not even me this time, I don't care any more since it just wastes time and makes my social anxiety act up even though I'm alone in my room.

>>17688881
>>17688884
>>17688891
Awesome, I'll switch to mining starting now.

wait I fucked up that last screenshot doesn't prove anything

>>17688895
>>17688907
I'll keep that in mind.

>>17688907
just relax your bunghole no need to get some agoraphobia attack over a thread with 4 people in it

>>17688895
Using bitmap fonts? You are special.

>>17688916
Its 5 at least.

>>17688807
>This thread is just for autists reading visual novels and manga with no interest in the real Japan.
damm right
i love this split, the extroverts are contained on /int/ and get punished with flags
the jap thread on /int/ also has non stop spam last I checked, and if not then peru, thai and koreaboo make it equally insufferable

>>17688941
>i love this split, the extroverts are contained on /int/ and get punished with flags
I am normally proud of being German but posting about Japanese things under the German flag on /int/ makes me want to kill myself. Posting on /int/ in general does that to me, actually.

If RTK doesn't teach you Japanese then why do people do it? Why not just grind out a vocab deck?

>>17688971
Because they don't know any better.

>>17688798

This post really messes up the thread. I don't like it at all.

>>17688941
>the extroverts are contained on /int/
Extroverts don't come to 4chan. Not being autistic doesn't mean you're extroverted.

>>17688979
>Extroverts don't come to 4chan.
You couldn't be more wrong.

>>17688979

/pol/ brought loads here during the election. It's horrible.

>>17688985
Like I said: just because you're a sperg doesn't mean those who aren't are extroverted normalfags. But if you want to believe that, go ahead.

>>17688995
You are just plain wrong. No amount of projecting insults will change that.

>>17688995

>just because you're a sperg doesn't mean those who aren't are extroverted normalfags

Yes it does.

>>17688994
It happened first during chanology. The extroverted normies that were on the internet during that time think they're introverted losers because they don't go party and drink every weekend or whatever, but that's a delusion.

If 国文法 is fake grammar I don't care whether grammar is "fake" or not.
I just like to do Japanese grammar in Japanese in the same way I would use the prescriptive English grammar I learned in school as a native English speaker to talk about English grammar if I for some reason had a need to.

Something like this:
https://www.kokugobunpou.com/%E5%8A%A9%E5%8B%95%E8%A9%9E/%E5%8A%A9%E5%8B%95%E8%A9%9E-5-%E3%81%86-%E3%82%88%E3%81%86/
Is much better than whatever the other guy uses to understand Japanese grammar in my opinion. But it's just my opinion.
It pleases my autism to have a mostly consistent and well-organized system for arranging words and morphemes and creating meaning out of them. And I feel no need to be able to expand that same system to apply to other languages as well.
I don't automatically think "未然形" and "推量" or "意志" when I see an う or よう but when I need to explain why a sentence means what I think it does I can use those terms and usually create something that makes sense. I think that's what the Japanese grammarians who created the system were going for.

I'm not going to reply to any argumentative replies to this either, I'm just letting thoughts out into the ether harmlessly

>>17688978
わるかった

>>17689008
youre all right man dont worry about the baka haters just piss it out all you want in this toilet bowl

I feel like I'm just reading all of the words in a sentence a piecing together a meaning based on context. I can't fucking remember any grammar rules. Am I learning Japanese?

>>17689016
謝る必要はないぜメン

>>17689021
let me help you out and get you reading something where youll actually learn a thing or two while mostly comprehending everything else in japanese as is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtCmY8zr_-k

>>17689031
I can't tell if this is real advice

>>17689042
Mr lowercase is always very real.

>>17689008
I don't think you should be offended if someone calls prescriptive grammar's take on semantics "fake grammar". It's just a difference in mindset.

>I don't automatically think "未然形" and "推量" or "意志" when I see an う or よう but when I need to explain why a sentence means what I think it does I can use those terms and usually create something that makes sense.

You can use it like that but you have to start with the correct meaning of the sentence. It's dangerous to talk about it as though it were a programming language where semantics and meaning are formalized.

国文法 is also a moving target. It's not as though someone designed 国文法 one day and it's stayed exactly the same as time goes on. If that were true, then classical grammar would still apply, even to the modern language.

Change happens gradually. A given resource on 国文法 might not update to reflect them, but the most modern resources used at the highest levels of universities in the departments concerned with studying the modern language accurately, those ones will. It's not a matter of prescriptive or descriptive, either, it's just that prescriptive happens to lag descriptive for aesthetic reasons. Prescriptive grammar changes gradually too, just on a different pace than descriptive grammar.

This is, indeed, very unsatisfying, and I completely understand why. Having a particular 国文法 system makes it a lot easier to talk to other people about grammar, and that's important. If you used cutting edge linguistics concepts, nobody would be able to understand you. However, your typical language learner with a simple question about etymology or semantics, they won't be best served by prescriptive grammar unless they're trying to produce something.

Having said all that, I find it very frustrating that someone would say that the "volitional form" is for "expressing that something is likely to happen in the future, or that it is only proper that something should happen in the future", because if you know Japanese, you would immediately understand that that isn't the core meaning of it. It's the meaning in some historical stage of its evolution, but not right now for verbs in general. A Dictionary of Japanese Grammar and A Handbook of Japanese Grammar Patterns have problems with terminology and verbosity and the quality of their explanations, but that's the natural result of avoiding incomprehensible linguistics jargon. The quoted phrase is a misunderstanding of how linguistics and grammar view the "volitional form", caused by people who aren't fluent in Japanese trying to understand Japanese grammar resources describing 推量 without realizing that 意志 is the default and normal usage and interpretation of it for normal verbs.

>I think that's what the Japanese grammarians who created the system were going for.
In reality it evolved out of classical grammar which is why the system has oddities sometimes.

I'd like to add, non-argumentatively, that "imperfective" is not standard terminology in the English language to describe 未然形.

"Imperfective" was originally coined to describe how some languages have a single aspect to describe verbs viewed with no "interior composition", or in other words, referring to the action as a whole without reference to its completion or initiation. Progressive and habitual things are typical examples of what's imperfective.

Importantly, however, the imperfective does not *not* invoke the notion that something is not true, at least not necessarily, right now. The 未然形 is always either used to construct a negative, or to invoke an irrealis mood, both of which convey the notion that something is at least not necessarily true right now.

There's no accurate translation between 未然形 and "imperfective" in either direction. I have no idea why this translation for 未然形 was popularized but it's totally wrong and makes armchair grammarians/linguists talking about Japanese in English be completely incomprehensible to people who actually understand Linguistics jargon. It's also totally incomprehensible to normal people.

>>17689129
Accordingly, 已然形 does not mean "realis". This is probably even more offensive because 已然形 was a strictly irrealis form. It's literally backwards.

>>17689061
I learned to understand Japanese by listening to it and reading it a lot and occasionally trying to speak in it with people, and then only later learned the 国文法 terms to be able to talk about what's happening in the language abstractly, so I think a lot of what you're saying is right.

And when I say something like "expressing that something is likely to happen in the future, or that it is only proper that something should happen in the future" I'm just trying to express the essence of う or よう in English words as succinctly and as best as I can using 国文法 as a base, and in my own mind I'm able to adapt the idea to give a volitional meaning, as in 東京に行こう, "going to Tokyo will probably happen in the future if I have anything to say about it, I will do my best to make sure that it happens," without thinking that the 意志 meaning is somehow secondary to 推量 or whatever.
I think of the 国文法 as just an imperfect but necessary way of explaining something like 東京に行こう. Which just means 東京に行こう to me without requiring any further thought about conjugation forms or whatever.
I understand that it's not perfect and I'm not trying to say that it is. But I don't think that it's wrong either. It's just a difference in mindset like you said.

I take issue with you saying things like "You don't understand Japanese" or "people who aren't fluent in Japanese trying to understand Japanese grammar resources," though, because you don't actually know whether someone is fluent in Japanese or understands it or not because you can't read their mind.

>>17688574
Anon, you make learning Japanese fun.

あのね..

>>17689175
>And when I say something like "expressing that something is likely to happen in the future, or that it is only proper that something should happen in the future" I'm just trying to express the essence of う or よう in English words as succinctly and as best as I can using 国文法 as a base
You did a very bad job then considering 国文法 doesn't interpret their essence to mean that at all and it's the opposite of succinct.

>and in my own mind I'm able to adapt the idea to give a volitional meaning, as in 東京に行こう, "going to Tokyo will probably happen in the future if I have anything to say about it, I will do my best to make sure that it happens," without thinking that the 意志 meaning is somehow secondary to 推量 or whatever.
This is an invalid rendering of what is expressed by 東京に行こう. There is no "probably", "if I have anything to say about it", or "I will do my best to make sure that it happens" there at all. By having to express these things, which are not expressed at all by the given Japanese, you are already admitting that you're starting with 推量 and adding more stuff to change it to 意志.

okay

>>17689180
can i add this to my long list of testimonials to shove in the faces of baka haters

>>17688880
That's exactly the point where I stopped adding cards to Core

>>17689175
to be fair if you express something in such a ridiculous way an impartial observer that knows japanese could only assume that you don't

keep going everybody maybe I'll finally be able to get up the nerve to commit suicide like I've wanted to for so long if you can push me over the edge
It's not worth it trying to explain myself to someone who's already decided that I'm dumb and that he's better than me, no one else cares anyway
At least my 言いけむ, 言っただろう, 言ったろう answer was pretty much correct and I'm glad to have been able to give an answer at all
But then no one even knows for sure if this is really me, we're all anonymous, no one has an identity, or a reputation to besmirch or an ego to bruise
And I could actually just be a different person defending someone else's answer, trying to emulate his or her writing style

I'm just a disembodied observer of this strange universe, floating around thinking thoughts, unable to relate to the creatures called humans in any meaningful way
It's all a fever dream, nonsensical, in the end returning to nothing
I would forget Japanese and give it all up if I could just feel like a flesh and blood person for a few moments, content to be alive and exist

I'm sorry to periodically soil the internet with words I've written, forcing them into the consciousness of other observers without any right to do so

>>17689021
>I can't fucking remember any grammar rules.
How many English grammar rules do you know?

Can you explain to me why any of the sentences in your post make sense? Can you explain to me why any of the sentences in my post make sense?

>>17689338
Why are you tying your self worth to this?

Can someone help with interpreting what 「この珈琲の為にあつらえたみたいに上品に」 means? I understand あつらえたみたいに means something that's highly suited for someone (like they were made for them), but I can't really understand 為 here.

is learning japanese just because I want to learn a second language that's very different from english a good enough reason to do it? By that I mean it's much more different from english than say spanish, french or german are. I'm interested because I would like to see the world from a cultural perspective much different than mine and I think studying a second language like japanese is the way to do that. I guess the reason I ask is because 1. there seems to be a bit of a stigma about the reasons people choose to learn japanese and 2. I'm not sure if it's a good idea when I wouldn't have many opportunities to actually utilize japanese in real life I suppose.

>>17689364
in a refined manner, as if to match this coffee

>>17689373
Test yourself- learn kana. If you don't feel like that's too boring after that, then learn first 100 kanji. If you still want to go, then you're in. Most people give up at that point unless they have really strong motivation.

Please help me understand part of the afterword to this porn comic.

>コミケは一年ぶりの参加になります。弊サークルはオリジナルが多いので一見商業エロ誌
>とやること変わらぬのでは…と思われてそうですがあちらはあちらで結構窮屈な面もご
>ざいまして、例えば今作のような１Ｐ目からヒロインが出てこないのはNGだったりします。
>もっとも複数人の検討が入る分粗は大分抜かれるのですがエッジが損なわれるのとト
>レードオフですし、痛し痒しですね！！

To be honest, right as I was typing it up, it suddenly dawned on me what it all means.
I just have one small question then: what is the meaning of もっとも here? Is it analogous to そうはいうものの?

>>17689379
Thanks, I just realized right after I posted that it was parallel with the 上品 in the previous line. しまった

Because that's what I do; I'm a flawed, broken thing that doesn't deserve to call itself human
Unable to separate reality from my perception or others' perception of it
the worst kind of autistic, with personality disorders and a substance abuse problem, constantly depersonalized and derealized, just aware enough of social cues to understand how flawed he is
deserving of death
hopelessly idealistic
Where others lash out and attack their opponent, I attack myself
Criticisms from others are automatically true because others are complete people and I am not
Especially the ad hominem ones, the names
How many names have I been given, even though all I ever wanted was to be accepted and liked?

>>17689364
>そんな俺の顔を見て、里奈ちゃんも、この珈琲の為にあつらえたみたいに上品に、くすっ、と笑った
And then, seeing my face, Rina-chan let out a giggle, so elegantly that it might have been tailor-made for enjoying with the drink.

>>17689402
Just take stimulants dude.

>>17689402
I wish I could help you, Anon- kun.
がんばって、ね！

>>17689402
Don't worry guy, your explanations of Japanese are the best. I will be sad if you go because the rest are jackasses about explanations.

おはようおにいちゃん

たちこぎしたら

ふとももぱんぱんになった

>>17689402
まったく
全然駄目だ
全然駄目だな
我らもただの人間だ
お前も完全人なるのだ
ただの存在を完全存在も生活するわけがある
っていうか、我が日本語は下手だろう
笑えよ

>>17689460
「おめぇ、……戦略、戦術、…そして戦闘、…全て三拍子揃ってるぜ。 ……お前みたいなヤツが俺の役をやるべきなんだよ…。山狗みてぇなクソどもの隊長をな…！」
「ははん。ごめんだね、あんたらみたいな根暗そうな秘密部隊の隊長なんて！」
魅音が笑い捨てる。　小此木もそれを笑って受けた。 謙遜でなく、それは純粋な反応だと思った。
「……へへへ、そうだな。お前ほどの器なら日本の不正規戦部隊長なんてもったいないぜ…。 ＳＡＳでもデルタでもスペツナズでも、…どこでも最高の人材になれるだろうぜ。何しろ、」
「はははは、あっははははははは！！！　ＳＡＳぅ？　デルタフォースぅ？ 下らないねぇ！　そんな退屈なところじゃあ、私を飼いならせやしないよ！！」
「……へっへへははははは！　そうだろうな。そうだろうよ。 ……なら聞かせてくれ。お前ほどのヤツなら、何の隊長を望む！」
「隊長なんて興味ないね。部長でいいね。」
「……部長…。英国情報部辺りってとこか、…ふ、妥当だな。」
「だめだめだめ、なってないね！　あのねぇ、私がやりたい部長はたったひとつ！！ 雛見沢分校の我が部の部長だけさッ！！　罰ゲームのない戦いなんてごめんだね！ 口先の魔術師、前原圭一！　かぁいいモードの竜宮レナ！ トラップ使いの沙都子に萌え落としの梨花ちゃん！！ そして期待の新人古手羽入！！　これだけ揃ってりゃ、世界のどこだろうと退屈だねッ！！」
「…………勝てねぇ…。……勝てねぇよ……。…こんなヤツが隊長だったんじゃ、 …勝てるわきゃねぇやな…。へへへへはははははははは！！」

おにいちゃん

じてんしゃのれる？

>>17685470
ive been reading and im 3 chapters in but i still have some trouble with grammar and have to resort to other sources to make sense of phrases

how much time will this take me to finish?
https://djtarchive.neocities.org/bunpou/full_day.html

>>17689581
じてんしゃのれないひとはじさつしたほうがいい

It's not that I don't feel the mental fatigue from reading and it's not that I don't believe you guys but goddamn, are you sure there isn't something useful to supplement? I just read and do my mining and core decks. Not gonna say I don't make incremental progress but is it really maximal?
>>17685989
People like that exist? I come here only when I'm feeling disheartened and want some advice from more advanced JSL students.

>>17689811
You might not be consciously aware of it but there are things you're learning by reading that are virtually impossible to find resources for. The benefits of learning by reading outweigh the perceived slowness of it in terms of acquiring obvious vocabulary.

>>17689384
That's fair. I'll give that a shot then.

カドカワはフレンズにひどいことしたよね

On Anki, how many times did you have to reset a word until you memorised it good enough to remember it in longer intervals

I hate this. I can't read, I basically look up words and guess. How do I actually fucking READ? Do I need to guess forever until it gels into a shitty rickety framework in my head?

>>17689929
Just read more. It‘ll fall into place.

>>17689929

>>17689934
How? I don't even know if what I think something says is right. There's no feedback.

>>17689947
I'm not going to, but it's so frustrating and I feel like I'm doing something so wrong.

>>17689929
Well, have you finished your grammar guide? If you have, then have you begun using DOJG/HJGP? In order to get better, it can help to make a conscious effort to get better. For example, if you're reading and suddenly ながら pops up, and you've never seen it, well, just look up how it works in your preferred grammar book. And then you'll know how it works, and you can make sense of it next time you see it. You'll also be more likely to remember it because you stopped what you were doing, made the conscious effort to look up what it does and how it works, etc. If you don't remember? Just look it up again. After just a few times, you'll get it down plenty solid. Becoming good at reading and comprehending is just a matter of doing that a bunch. It's hard work, but you want to learn Japanese, right?

>>17689918
Depends on the word.

>>17689957
>I'm not going to, but it's so frustrating and I feel like I'm doing something so wrong.
You are learning a language that originates from literally the other side of the world. So donmai the time it takes to learn it!

>>17689957
>How? I don't even know if what I think something says is right.
If you think you figured out what something means because of parsing the parts it's made out of, you've already done something horribly wrong. Parsing distracts you from what's actually possible for it to mean.

>There's no feedback.
Your feedback is your comprehension of the story and whether your understanding of the language seems consistent with itself and with how it's used. Language itself is impossibly complicated, but the relationship it has to situations and actions is not.

>>17689959
I have finished my grammar guide. It's quite a lot of information though, and I cannot remember it all. I've tried looking stuff up in DOJG, but you don't know what you don't know. In an overly complex sentence, I may have trouble doing even basic things like seperating words from something like ながら unsure if it's part of the word it's attached to or not.

Even when I do that, there's stuff that's just immutable, like the exact differences between は and が, and other exact ways that stuff like that is used. I can usually vaugely kinda guess at what a sentence means, but there's no feedback. I don't know how far I am unless something later directly contradicts it, or I'm so far off it's comical.

>>17689968
Thanks anon. Everyone tells me to keep grinding but I just feel like I'm trying to swim in hello

>>17689982
頑張って

>>17689981
How am I supposed to understand something without parsing it

>>17689991
Pick the verb (or だ・じゃない・etc).

Add the subject and object if they're there. If you're missing one, pick the most prominent other noun. If you're missing both, pick the two most prominent other nouns.

If it begins or ends with a simple utterance like どうですか or まってよ, add that too as a mental side note.

Fill in the blanks with ~context~.

Now that you have a vague idea of what they're saying you're ready to parse it to figure out how the grammar means what you think the message means.

>>17689982
Select a topic that you are highly knowledgeable about. Go to a Wikipedia article related to the topic and read about it. Because you know exactly how the thing you are knowledgeable about goes, you will be able to establish a precise relationship between grammar and meaning, because any misunderstandings will be preempted by your actual knowledge of what it's supposed to be in detail. You'll have to learn the words though, but that's a given.

How does one stop being lazy?

>>17690039
By just doing it.
Believe it or not, that's the secret.

>>17690039
気合を入れて

>>17690005
That's basically what I do, when I can actually figure out where one word begins and ends.

>>17690008
That's actually a really neat idea anon. Thanks

>>17690050
Yeah being able to figure out where word boundaries are comes with exposure. Your brain just gets used to the patterns, even if you don't understand what you're reading.

けもフレってききとれた？

ＳＵＢつきならにほんごわかる？

>>17690051
Alright. I guess I'll trust that, even if it makes little sense to me. I wish japanese has spaces

>>17690053
動物名以外は大体平気だった

>>17690053
多分大丈夫
試してみないだけど

>>17690057

How long exactly have you been at it? The lack of spaces should all but cease being an issue pretty early on.

Been using Anki for a few days now, will I really be able to remember 3k+ words without learning how to write each rune? I feel like I'll mistake one for another once I really get deep into it

>>17690075
About a week of attempting to read. White a bit of grammar study before that.

>>17690057
Once you get used to it, Japanese really doesn't benefit from spaces at all. Kanji and particles already make it clear in almost every case where a word starts and ends and adding spaces wouldn't do much. Sure, it wouldn't necessarily hurt, but since people simply don't use spaces there's no point relying on them for very long and thinking about the what-ifs of it.

>>17690076
>I feel like I'll mistake one for another once I really get deep into it
are you implying that wouldn't happen if you wrote them down?

>>17690078
Studying grammar in isolation has its uses, but it'll stick much better as you read and look up how stuff works.

>>17690079
In handwriting some Japanese people regularly emphasize parts of speech with size and sometimes add small spaces between what they consider words, so the some degree of demand exist for this, but overall it isn't a problem for anyone to read standard evenly printed text.

>>17690058
ヒポは「かば」だけど１０人に１人くらいは「ヒポ」もつうじることもあるよ

ジラフはつうじないよ「きりん」だよ

エレファントは「ぞう」で１０人に３人はつうじるとおもうよ

なまえはむずかしい？

>>17690091
そんなのは簡単けど
たとえば
アフリカオオコノハズク
ハシビロコウ
全然知らなかった

Does anyone else get really autistic/chuuni when they sit down and study?

For example, when reading or speaking practice, I pretend I'm reading from an ancient magical tome, or practicing spell incantations. Can't get the grammatical functions or inflections wrong the spell won't work.

>>17690089
>some Japanese people regularly emphasize parts of speech with size
You mean like the equivalent of writing a word in all capitals to EMPHASIZE it, I assume? Sure, but pretty much any language with a writing system has people who do that.
>and sometimes add small spaces between what they consider words
I don't really get what you mean. Are you sure you don't mean as a quick way to separate sentences without a punctuation mark or starting on a new row, or as a pause?
>so the some degree of demand exist for this
Sure, but I'd further stress that to a LIMITED degree. If the desired effect is to essentially separate two sentences either by what is essentially a pause or just to avoid confusion in general then a space will work just as well as a comma, punctuation mark, or writing on the next row.

>植えつける
>(v1, vt) to plant
That's a bit vague. This means to inculcate, apparently, to "plant" an idea in somebody's head.
Maybe I'll have to start copying actual Japanese definitions in my cards. How annoying...

>>17690100

>>17690100
I think at first I was pretending to be some Asian scholar-monk of old when I was writing my first kanji and I would try to find esoteric meaning in them, but now I just scribble them without much thought. Actually writing them is in itself pretty chuuni though, all things considered.

>>17690112
Does writing actually help with your memorization? I might supplement it with Anki reps if there is net positive to be had.

>>17690104
Its seems vague to you because it actually is defined vaguely. It means both planting plants and planting an idea into somebody else.

https://kotobank.jp/word/%E6%A4%8D%E4%BB%98%E3%81%91%E3%82%8B-438658#E3.83.87.E3.82.B8.E3.82.BF.E3.83.AB.E5.A4.A7.E8.BE.9E.E6.B3.89

>>17690099
ハシビロコウとカピパラはにほんではにんきがあるよ

なんでかはしらないよ

あたしはサーバルキャットしらなかったよ

まだほんものはみたこともない

>>17690114
It likely does but writing takes a lot of time. I recommend doing it only if you enjoy it, and perhaps only for complex kanji to get a clear idea of what they are.

>>17690116
Oh, well the context I saw the word in belonged to the second definition. But yeah, good to know it has the usual meaning of "to plant" too.

>>17690099
きをつけてね

Lionをレオって２音ではつおんすると

ぜったいにつうじないよ

ら・い・お・ん

って４音ではつおんすると通じる

>>17690109
It tends to help me focus. It's weird as fuck when you think about it.

>>17690100

Hopefully you only do that in private, but if it works for you then it works for you.

>>17690078

Well you shouldn't expect miracles just yet then, reading isn't smooth sailing even a year or two years in. You just gotta keep building your vocab/grammar base, things'll start looking clearer soon enough.

>>17690100
That's cute anon

Not sure where I mined 躊躇なく but can anybody tell me how to read it? ためらなく or ちゅうちょなく?

>>17690146
ちゅうちょなく

Bit of a weird question, but does everyone do their studying digitally? I use Anki and PDFs and have Word documents of notes, but I found a bunch of stationary I didn't use from my school days and I'm tempted to handwrite some things to use it.

>>17690100
There's actually a whole pen and paper game made around this idea, with an app to check your pronunciation and verify you did it correctly. It's for korean though

Is there a reason why words like 区画 isn't pronounced くがく instead of くかく and why 至る所 isn't pronounced いたるどころ instead
of いたるところ?
I don't know all the details on how sound softening works but I generally know when it should take place, and words like these strike me as strange.
Is there some rule I'm missing or are they just exceptions where sound softening doesn't take place?

>>17690146
>>17690152
ためら「い」なく

ってよませることもあるとおもうよ

>>17690189
そうか

「い」がないとちょっと違和感がするけど

>>17690199
にほんごも

やけにまちがいにかんようなところも

やたらとこうるさいところもあるよ

>>17690114
Indeed, it does.

>>17690211
>>17690211
漢字で書いて、平仮名が苦手んだよ。

>>17690216
かんじ

わすれた

がんばっておにいちゃん

>>17690114
It does by way of increased exposure time.
The raw act of it does nothing, it just takes longer to do.

>>17690244
>かんじ
>わすれた

日本語が、私のまだ生きる最終の理由である。

>>17689129
>>17689153
I posted about 未然形/已然形 to JMdict's mailing list.

could someone translate some vocaloid songs for me? if you want something to do and you have the time

>>17690765
translating lyrics is impossible sorry

Just learned 湯飲み which sounds like “you know me“. No connection but a mnemonic I guess.

>>17690765
ill do it 20 bucks per 3-4 min song

>>17690842

As long as you're aware 'know' is a diphthong, whereas の is not.

So I am currently binge watching ふしぎな島のフローネ on youtube and the grammar's difficulty is okish but I mostly watch it for exposure and the new words. Are there any easy shows like this I could watch next?

>>17690842
獺 are 可哀想

Any way to find jp subs on jp classics? I mean stuff like mizoguchi / ozu

>>17690185
For 区画, it's because it's a 漢語 and 連濁 doesn't occur within 漢語.
You do get sound changes within 漢語, like 傑作 けつさく→けっさく or 信憑 しんひょう→しんぴょう, but 連濁 specifically does not happen.

With 至る所 it's probably because 至る is a verb. This happens with other words like 思った通り　おもったとおり (verb, no 連濁), 予定通り　よていどおり (noun, 連濁 occurs).

>>17686333
>>17688505
Update: Designated, core and special cities all added, now with maps and flags. I decided to include flags in the end because Japanese flags just look so damn cool so it would've been a shame to leave them out.

I also added some normal cities which are not designated, core or special if they met the requirements to be designated, core or special, or if they were prefectural capitals (as was the case with Yamaguchi City, which is too small to even be a special city, but is nonetheless the capital city of the Yamaguchi prefecture).

The total number of cities in the deck is 116.

I decided that I definitely will include the 23 special wards of Tokyo after looking at their population sizes. Each ward is practically a major city in its own right.

I'm also now planning to include some sub-region cards (東海地方, 山陰地方, etc.), and maybe sub-prefecture ones too.

Not sure if I will go ahead with adding landmarks and famous places like I mentioned yesterday. Right now I'm leaning towards "probably not".

Hopefully the deck will be finished today.

>>17691688
Oh, and everything is tagged, so if you only want to learn, say, designated cities and prefectural capitals, it's easy to suspend/delete everything else.

Cities are tagged by their type (prefectural capital, designated city, core city, special city, and city) and which region they're in. I was going to tag them for which prefecture they were in as well, but the amount of tags in this deck is already absurd without adding 47 more. That information is included in the notes themselves anyway, so you can use the search bar in Anki to search a particular prefecture and see which cities are in it that way instead.

>>17691688
>>17691745

Looking forward to it, thanks for putting in the effort.

How much Japanese do I need to know before I'm allowed to post here?

>>17692107
just post nigga

>>17692107
You have to be fluent

>>17692107
You become fluent by writing your very first post. Congratulations!

>>17692107
私は日本
There, easy. Perfectly coherent sentence.

>>17692176
There's no verb, that's not a sentence, right?
これはペンです

>>17692157

>>17692199
Forgot your verb, dude.
食べる

わたしはゲイ

>>17692214
>先攻ください
なに？

>>17692252
shes saying shes gonna go first in the rap battle

dj celory かませー！！！！！！！！！！！！！

>>17692265
Hang yourself

>>17692270
fuck u too bro

>>17686027
Yes it is.
JUST READ
although calibrate reading material to your understanding level

>>17686041
JUST READ

>>17686034
I'm a med student, and can say with certainty that if you want to make it you will have to drop anki anyways. The faster you do it the better. The best option is to never even start it. JUST READ

>>17692601
ついてる？

>>17692589
>>17692601
>JUST READ
Cringed pretty hard.

>>17690100
this is kind of cute I'll try to do the same next time

>>17691069
That is a Japanese fox.

>>17692589
>>17692601
>>17692624
Thanks for reading the thread

Remember, it's 食べる not 食べる
食べる is wrong, 食べる is right
Again for emphasis :
食べる is wrong, 食べる is right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nhbGc7u284

余は黄道帯なり、夜空の星々
貴女は妖術者、火星の女教皇よ
宵の女王、黒繻子を纏い
此の拷問台の上、肌は青白い

我が裘のビーナスよ

其の革靴に祈りを捧げる
コブラが如く、皮衣の悪が台頭
其の毒液、漆黒なる麻薬の様
痛みをとる為、毎日必要

我が裘のビーナスよ

余は黄道帯なり、夜空の星々
貴女は妖術者、裘のビーナスよ

Some uncommon words are just damn hard to learn without Anki.
I have no idea how you Anki haters claim to manage it.

>>17692684
Cringed /pretty/ /hard/ "breh".
Use >>>/int/

ＡＮＫＩを舐めんなよ、クソガキめ！

>>17692765
see >>17692761 /a/ /bro/

>>17692715

Maybe they don't care about having to look up about 10% of the words they encounter for literally years because they're not common enough to learn any quicker.

>>17692761
>"breh"

Who are you quoting?

>>17692806
Cringed pretty /hard/ /int/ /bro/
Use >>>/int/djt/

>>17692761
>>17692785
>>17692828

fuck off, ```dude'''

>>17692761
>>17692785
>>17692828
Oh, hello dude who only appears to redirect people to other boards when he sees posts he doesn't like. Did your ban end again?

>>17692834
pretty good post. you can stay.
>>17692843
I'm not your "dude" /int/ /bro/

Just signed up for a 100 hour basic course that teaches using Minna no Nihongo. Is that a good book to build a foundation on which I can learn by myself later on or will it give me bad habits? So far we're learning extremely polite shit instead of basic grammar and so on, though I guess it'll cover it eventually

>>17686110
I learned kana within a few weeks

I learned kana when I was like 15 and don't even remember how long it took or what I did

>>17692881
that's pretty cool! although i prefer Genki myself.

>>17692881

Don't be surprised if you come out with little more than a simple phrase book.

>>17692881
Stop going to that course if you can. Learn Japanese by yourself. If you want to speak it, save up and travel to Japan in the future.

alternatively hit up those lonely housewives to teach you some real nihongo and soothe their aching souls at the same time

>>17692715
I just remember them.

>>17686333
Finally finished.

https://a.pomfe.co/hordiki.apkg

Here's what the deck contains:
- All Regions [map cards, name cards]
- 7 Sub-regions [map cards, name cards]
- All Prefectures (inc. Tokyo Metropolis) [map cards, flag cards, name cards]
- All Special Wards of Tokyo [map cards, flag cards, name cards]
- All Prefectural Capitals [flag cards, name cards w/prefecture flags]
- All Designated Cities [flag cards, name cards w/prefecture flags]
- All Core Cities [flag cards, name cards w/prefecture flags]
- All Special Cities [flag cards, name cards w/prefecture flags]
- 12 cities big enough to be designated/core/special cities and/or which are prefectural capitals [flag cards, name cards w/prefecture flags]

I didn't include sub-prefectures because after looking up what they were it became clear that they are pointless to know. For the most part, they are just groups of small islands which have some degree of self-governance but to a lesser degree than the prefectures which they belong to... or something to that effect.

If you count the special wards of Tokyo as cities (which they basically are), the total number of cities in this deck comes to 139. Hopefully it should include all the ones you or I will ever need to know.

Total number of cards is 470, of which 84 are map cards, 186 are flag cards, and 200 are name cards.

Note about audio: Only regions (not sub-regions) and prefectures have audio since there seems to be no easily available source of audio for cities and the special wards of Tokyo.

>>17692199

A sentence doesn't need to contain a verb.

>>17693189
>w/prefecture flags
Fuck, that was supposed to be "w/prefecture maps". Sorry.

>>17693189
Wait, I'm going to add some of the special ward districts, with notes about what they are. I'll probably do a card for the imperial palace too. I think these places are definitely worth knowing of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_wards_of_Tokyo#Notable_districts

Fortunately there are no flags or maps or other bullshit to deal with so this should be fairly quick. Hang on.

>>17685523
ニコニコニュース隠蔽騒動とかもあって「本社爆発シリーズ」の意味を再確認したよ。ほんまクソ運営だわ。

>>17686362
A lot of place names are also completely unreadable to native speakers. (source: me) Even when you know the kana, pitch is very unpredictable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1RnTm31ng

我が潜伏の同士、今よ
千台のアンプが、時の終わりを鳴らし
空は棺の蓋なり
其の影の下、全員断獄
選ばれし者、ご存知の者
星で刻み綴った預言書
拳を揚げよ、存在の兆し
終焉の鐘が鳴り、十三時

時間が来てあり
選ばれし者よ、水煙管を降ろせ
刃物を手に取り、全滅を始まり
麻薬と殺害を合法化せよ
サタナス・ルシフェルスよ、此の魂を差し上げる
悪魔の奴隷なり、救い無し
五芒星の影で死ねばよい

選ばれし者、空を仰げ
選ばれし者、合図を待ち
選ばれし者、墓場の息子達
悪魔の奴隷なり

Is this what professional linguistics looks like?

>>17693437
>English words mixed with romaji
No.

>>17693437

>ataka
>il
>bendyoo

I don't know what words these are meant to be.

>>17692697
>>17693377
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVBFiFC2Eyk

>>17693467
They are supposed to be 頭,いい and 勉強.

>>17693440
>>17693467
>https://www.slideshare.net/mivettepr/second-language-acquisition-631?qid=c404f743-3d16-4102-8e93-a91ab5da3a46
> Maria Ivette Ortiz Rosado, Professor at Cambridge College
maybe I can become a professor too?