/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I totally forgot about 44, whoops.

Mima's taught her well.

http://bato.to/reader#8671e76e6afe8456

Marisa you dunce, you can fly. You fly away at the end of this same scene! And no way is this scrawny preteen nerd climbing that sheer rock face!

Also...what IS this thing? These ruins. It doesn't look like a whole building, and barely even looks Japanese, yet is in so prominent a spot that it's where Aya and Reimu meet. Is it what's left of a shrine?

>>16022680
is there a way to download this?

>>16022785
If someone puts it on imgur.

>>16022616
I miss the cool Reimu from EoSD, PCB, IN and SSiB. Now she's like every other shonen protagonist, yelling all the time like a spastic and getting dumber somehow as time goes on, it's so boring. ZUN really dropped the ball.

>>16022812
and marisa's not the witty, kleptomaniac boke that she used to be, now she's a regular goodie two shoes tsukkomi, a complete 180.

if the M-1 grand prix happened today, their roles would be swapped.

>>16022872
Nitori isn't the shy, cowardly, introverted girl she was in MoF and SA anymore either, now she's an energetic, potty-mouthed, super aggressive bitch that gives everyone she meets the middle finger, explicitly thinks she's superior to everyone as shown in SoPM and all of her ploys are solely about screwing her employers and customers out of their money, also bullies her own employees.

>>16022812
She's always gone off in a flurry without reasoning at the suspicion of a youkai pulling some shit. This chapter portrays a lot of what always happens: Reimu and Marisa solving problems in the ways they prefer. Reimu's approach was to use her talents and call upon the gods to find the culprit, and then plan to beat them up regardless of what they say. Marisa doesn't take shortcuts to the answer and gets there after Reimu because of it, but reasoning through it herself rather than it being handed to her also gave her more insight to figure out what really happened.

This kind of imagination that Reimu was significantly different after SSiB is silly, especially since it starts like three years after IN, while MoF and SA were released before it was even over.

>>16022601
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSUy2JIvUOI

>>16022872
Reimu and Marisa are still totally a manzai act; either of them can be the boke or tsukkomi as the situation sees fit. Literally the previous chapter Marisa is the boke.

>>16022914
>Nitori isn't the shy, cowardly, introverted girl she was in MoF and SA anymore either
Obligatory "she was always like this" that needs to be said every single time someone makes this claim

>>16022955
>call upon the gods to find the culprit
But that has never happened up until now, it was always her instinct remember? The one that somehow is better than Yukari's as shown in IN. Hell she completely forgot she could even talk to the gods in WaHH, despite casually doing it in SSiB, that's how dumb she has become.

>This kind of imagination that Reimu was significantly different after SSiB is silly
Nah, SSiB Reimu would call neo-Reimu a villain, just like she did with Remilia. Also nearly all if not all of the people Reimu fights are impeding her way, even the ones that people call innocent like Nitori in MoF.

>Marisa doesn't take shortcuts to the answer and gets there after Reimu because of it
In what incident has this happened? Everytime they both get together, talk about what's happening and then set off to stop the culprit.

>>16022749
she took super-strength mushroom

>>16022872
what are you talking about, Marisa and Reimu were always sarcastic bastards, nothing more, nothing less.
Infact, 2hu characters are all sarcastic bastards.

>>16022977
>Reimu and Marisa are still totally a manzai act;
Absolutely not, SSiB Reimu was 100% tsukkomi to everyone's boke, she's the one saying ''this is stupid, please stop'' and only going through because Yukari made her do so.
>Obligatory "she was always like this" that needs to be said every single time someone makes this claim
I've seen this happen and the ones claiming this never prove it, they stretch it thin just to fit their point.

Nobody in their right mind would think that MoF and SA Nitori would be an incredibly aggressive, energetic, NOT SHY, greedy bitch who thinks she's the hottest shit in the world. The closest thing she ever did to that was say ''you better leave'' and that was more to protect the human than to say ''fuck off and die''.

>>16023000
I don't think modern Reimu even knows what sarcasm is anymore.

>>16022785
https://my.mixtape.moe/ximksj.zip

>>16023042
thanks dude.

Reimu being a QTPi as always.

>>16022749
Witches can't fly without their brooms, you idiot.

>>16023058
Harukawa is the best artist ZUN has hired so far.

>>16022601
One pretty cool Tengu Temple and Two makes me wonder how a FS based game would pan or play out to be honest.

>>16023083
Where did she get that western outfit?

>>16023111
do we need the infamous template?

with the place being sealed off during the Meiji period that style was still current in Europe at the time and I could have been left behind by a pre-barrier traveler and copied subsequently.

>>16023126
or Yukari just brought an outfit from the outside world one day and thought Reimu would look cute in it.

How can she be so smug all the goddamn time?

>>16023143
she's sweating.

>>16023147
Even her hat is sweating, but she is still smug

>>16023017
>Nobody in their right mind would think that MoF and SA Nitori would be an incredibly aggressive, energetic, NOT SHY, greedy bitch who thinks she's the hottest shit in the world.

"(You're such an idiot.
How can a magician be so ignorant?)"
-Nitori, from SA Stage 6

>>16023143
Isn't Sagume getting drunk a pretty dangerous thing?

>>16023140
>>16023083
>>16023058

Nitori spends at least a third of her lines in SA constantly insulting everyone she meets. The only exception is Yuugi, who she insults until she realizes that Yuugi can actually hear her. The gist of it is that she's a cowardly asshole.

I can only assume that no one's ever played Nitori's route in SA.

>>16023294
>. The gist of it is that she's a cowardly asshole.
But that's not like her in the slightest in HM, she's upfront about insulting everyone and then beat the shit out of them if possible.

>>16023023
then she is just a bastard

>>16023294
lol you're right I've played SA hundreds of times but only used Nitori like twice

>>16023294
>Nitori spends at least a third of her lines in SA constantly insulting everyone she meets
No she doesn't, she tells Marisa to beat them up at best, and that's not even all of them.
> who she insults
Nope, she does nothing of the sort. In fact she calls the oni her boss way before she even realizes Yuugi can hear her.

She's still a coward in that game, just like in MoF, but unlike the later games.

>>16023294
>(我々の仲間だった奴らが住んでいる
　地底都市の事だよ）
>(It's where some old friends of ours live.
It's a great underground city.)

>>16023299
In HM onwards she has all that combat-focused machinery with her at all times.

>>16023299
HM Nitori is Nitori when he has no stake in the main incident. SA Nitori had to (sort of) keep up appearances so she could keep manipulating Marisa. It's not surprising that manipulative characters are two-faced.

>>16022978
>But that has never happened up until now, it was always her instinct remember?
She still has broken intuitions. It's one of the main factors in her suspicions in events in FS. In this case she just happened to call upon the gods for help, maybe because "intuition that the tengu were actually behind it" doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

>Nah, SSiB Reimu would call neo-Reimu a villain
Except that whole joke is that the vampire party were the villains because they were invading and stirring up shit for no real reason. Here Reimu was obviously convinced the tengu were the culprits and up to no good.

>In what incident has this happened?
As for Marisa, I'm talking more about her disposition and propensity to undertake hard work and effort to achieve some goal. She's always just studied and trained, while passing over potential "cheats" to success. That juxtaposed with Reimu's natural talent and tendency to want shortcuts (see: WaHH) is what makes one of their fundamental cores as the main characters. If you want game quotes, her being an "ordinary magician" is one early aspect of this.

>>16023314
>she tells Marisa to beat them up at best
Also pointing out that every other sidekick basically does that too, so by that guy's logic all the other 5 characters would also be an upfront ''fuck you'' kind of girl like HM Nitori, yet they're not.
>>16023334
And she doesn't have them before...? Of course she does, it's how she gets camouflage.
>>16023335
>SA Nitori had to (sort of) keep up appearances so she could keep manipulating Marisa
What are you on? She shat her pants the moment she realized Yuugi could hear her, she's a coward, or at least used to be before ZUN forgot what Nitori even was and just drunkenly made her do a 180.

Also what about MoF, did she have to keep up appearances too? Why isn't she insulting the heroine and telling them to eat shit like HM Nitori? Why is she cowardly hiding?

>>16023343
>She still has broken intuitions
Where? And what does that have to do with the fact she never has done this before?
>Except that whole joke is that the vampire party were the villains because they were invading and stirring up shit for no real reason
TD Reimu explicitly says she's attacking Miko for literally no reason, so SSiB Reimu would call her a villain.
>As for Marisa, I'm talking more about her disposition and propensity to undertake hard work and effort to achieve some goal.
You said that this is what always happens yet I pointed out that that's not the case. Don't try to change what you stated. Because in FS itself Reimu does detective work, even dresses up for the occassion once.

>>16023196
Is that it? Calling someone an idiot because of something idiotic that they did is akin to being the ultra bitch that she is HM?

Come on dude, EVERYONE noticed the drastic change, why are you fooling yourself like this?

Why is Hecate so best

>>16023367
Not with that horrendous outfit.

>>16023343
>"intuition that the tengu were actually behind it" doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Intuition by default DOESN'T make sense and cannot be explained, especially hers since it's even more powerful than Yukari's who's like 2000 years old.

>>16023360
>Where?
There was a chapter where simply because she suspected it she found out where a smoke youkai was hiding.

She was the only one to figure it out.

>>16023383
That's not an example of a broken intuition is it?

>>16023343
why did you ignore the point about Reimu being noticeably dumber?

>>16023382
Reimu has never been a character to see the obvious or reason something out. In all the games, she kind of bulldozes a way based off of her gut, and blames whoever she finds for whatever (or absolutely nothing) in stage 6 and later the extra.

Just recently something similar happened in WaHH. She was looking for a culprit to a missing person's case and never suspected Yukari even though she makes the mots sense.

>>16023385
I think it is. How isn't it, exactly? Without actual reasoning or theory she just sort of went where she thought the thing might be.

>>16023345
>And she doesn't have them before...?
She doesn't in MoF, and she certainly doesn't in SA (as she doesn't need it). I wouldn't be surprised if that was where all her confidence comes from. It'd be an interesting character trait at least.

Honestly, I don't care either way. MoF is my least favourite mainline game after UFO. I'm just chipping in with something I thought maybe helpful.

>>16023314
She talks about how nasty they are, what horrible things they've done and awful powers they have, and even with Yuugi she talks about how SHE NEVER WANTS TO SEE HER AGAIN. "Please tell her to stay down there." "I don't even want to think about her coming back." Then as soon as she's revealed, she's half-heartedly inviting Yuugi over for tea. Frankly, if you missed that obvious joke about her personality, you are both an idiot and missing out on some ZUN-style humor.

>>16023314
>No she doesn't, she tells Marisa to beat them up at best, and that's not even all of them.
Her language is pretty derogatory; the translation doesn't quite get the level across.

> In fact she calls the oni her boss
That's because the oni did boss over the kappa/tengu before they went underground. It's a fact.
>before she even realizes Yuugi can hear her
No, she's audible. She even greets her, and changes her speech within her first line.

>>16023327
仲間 doesn't necessarily imply friends ("comrades" might be better in this case?), while using 奴ら is mildly derogatory. "Great" was also flavour.

>>16023388
>Reimu has never been a character to see the obvious or reason something out.
We're not talking about reason, we're talking about intuition, which is unreasonable.

It sparks again in ULiL where she's the only one to figure out what's happening in the end and stop Sumireko for real, not even Mamizou who's supposed to be one of those meta characters like Yukari that know everything behind the scenes could guess that.

>>16023345
>What are you on? She shat her pants the moment she realized Yuugi could hear her, she's a coward, or at least used to be before ZUN forgot what Nitori even was and just drunkenly made her do a 180.

She's a coward when she knows she will lose (SA Yuugi), and a smug bitch when she thinks she can win (HM). I'm not saying she's one or the other, I'm saying she's two-faced depending on the situation.

>Also what about MoF, did she have to keep up appearances too? Why isn't she insulting the heroine and telling them to eat shit like HM Nitori? Why is she cowardly hiding?

Because she wants the heroine to deal with the Moriya shrine for her instead of dirtying her own hands. Look back at her dialogue. She affirms that humans are her "sworn friends" but don't you think that's bullshit given what kappa do to people? She just wants to the protagonist to be sympathetic to the kappa so they can get Kanako off the mountain.

>>16022749
Maybe the mountain is too windy?

>>16023391
>How isn't it, exactly?
Because she was correct.
>>16023395
>She doesn't in MoF, and she certainly doesn't in SA (as she doesn't need it)
Of course she has gear in MoF, it's how she fights and has camouflage. If what you said was true then she wouldn't even fight in MoF at all. The post-HM manga chapters also make her the upfront, assertive scammer that she was in that game despite not even fighting.

>>16023409
>We're not talking about reason, we're talking about intuition, which is unreasonable.
What?

That's the whole point of that post. I'm saying she doesn't see reason and instead uses intuition. That's why I said "gut".

>>16023387
>Imperishable Night
>Reimu immediately assumes Marisa caused the incident because she happened to be in front of her
>This is also the case for most bosses she finds in PCB
>Subterranean Animism, fights Satori for literally no reason.
>Same thing in Ten Desires
>Similarly fights Shinmyoumaru because she is there, she looks especially foolish if you used her possessed rod because, as the princess points out, she is ironically benefiting from what she's fighting against
>Hopeless Masquerade: decides to use a youkai to attract human villagers

Reimu

Smart

>>16023420
>Because she was correct.
Are you dumb? That doesn't mean it isn't intuition, it means her intuition was correct.

Why is Hecatia just constantly fingering the air in front of her face?

>>16023399
>She talks about how nasty they are, what horrible things they've done and awful powers they have
Nope, she just tells Marisa to beat them up just like the rest. She even praises the city and says she has friends there.
>and even with Yuugi she talks about how SHE NEVER WANTS TO SEE HER AGAIN
BECAUSE SHE'S SCARED OF HER, that's the point I'm making.

Also good job ignoring the fact that she's also a coward in MoF.

Reimu shoots first, asks questions never.

>>16022749
Heavy winds, which is what they start talking about in the next few pages.

>>16023420
>If what you said was true then she wouldn't even fight in MoF at all.
She was on her home ground in MoF though, then mostly among her kind in the manga. The one time she goes into the Human Village alone she is in disguise, and rather jumpy.

Of course that could be just your regular youkai paranoia about being found out, but eh.

>>16023403
>Her language is pretty derogatory; the translation doesn't quite get the level across.
Does praising the underground city and claiming they have friends there ''derogatory''?
>That's because the oni did boss over the kappa/tengu before they went underground. It's a fact.
Yeah so? Why didn't she insult her like she would have in HM?
>No, she's audible. She even greets her, and changes her speech within her first line.
I don't think that ''hello'' was meant to be heard, also if she knew she could be heard, why would she go ''BWUH?!'' when Yuugi starts talking to her?

>>16023412
>She's a coward when she knows she will lose (SA Yuugi),
Contradicting, because in MoF she both was a coward and also thought she could win.

You're really making up a ton of excuses to justify the drastic 180 degrees of difference between character that everyone noticed. Why?
>Because she wants the heroine to deal with the Moriya shrine for her instead of dirtying her own hands
Is that why she tells the heroine to leave and then fights her? What are you on?

>>16023430
I'm talking about the characters she meets, not some nebulous "friends" in the city. Which, as has been pointed out, is a mistranslation anyway. She talks about Yamame polluting the river. She uses Parsee as an excuse to talk about how nasty all the youkai outside the city are. She calls Orin creepy. I never said she had no friends or anything, I just said she likes to insult people, which she does.

She's afraid of Yuugi, yes, but she's perfectly willing to badmouth her behind her back UNTIL SHE REALIZES THAT YUUGI CAN HEAR HER. Which is the whole point. She's two-faced. That's like, the only characterization she had until she also became greedy in HM.

>>16023017
Nitori attacks you like 3 times "out of kindness", and keeps trying to play the pity party card until you beat her out of the way. This is in MoF.

Later in other series for the most part she and all other kappa try to remain outside of conflict, but at the same time try to maintain an air of superiority. That was the whole point of her original character, I thought. Two-faced.
>She may suddenly change her attitude or speech, and she possesses a rather odd personality

The only thing that "changed" is that we learned more about her. She's an inventor. This was kind of hinted at already. Combining inventor with two faced to come about with "opportunistic jew" seems logical to me

>>16023366
The original point is that nobody would expect her to be the ultra bitch she is in HM, but I used that line from SA because it hints that she's not exactly the shy kappa she pretends to be in MoF or SA. Her entire storyline in SA is her manipulating Marisa by lying about treasure just so he can get a preview of nuclear technology. She gets Marisa to fight an incredibly dangerous walking nuke just to satisfy her curiosity. I'm saying, is it really surprising that this character turned out to be a massive cunt when she's not keeping up appearances?

>>16023423
>>Reimu immediately assumes Marisa caused the incident because she happened to be in front of her
Non canon.
>>This is also the case for most bosses she finds in PCB
Not at all, they all try to stop her.
>>Subterranean Animism, fights Satori for literally no reason.
Do you even read the dialogue? She herself says she wanted to drink tea with Satori but Yukari made her fight her, same with Yamame.
>the rest
Looks like you forgot that I was talking about post-SSiB Reimu being dumber so, thanks for proving my point.

>>16023427
> That doesn't mean it isn't intuition
When did I say it wasn't? What's wrong with your reading?

>>16023440
>She was on her home ground in MoF though
And still a coward, which is the point here.

>>16023467
>Non canon
It happened, but when it doesn't carry over you just dismiss it like a dumb fuck? That was written by ZUN, in Reimu's character.
>they all try to stop her
She's still quick to blame whoever because she doesn't really care. She assumes Letty is the cause of the problems because she represents winter.
>Do you even read the dialogue?
It's hilarious for you to say that. Pic related.

By the way
>IaMP: Reimu basically attacks anyone and everyone in her way assuming they're the cause of problems
>SWR: Pretty much the same thing.
>Mof: doesn't understand anything and decides the best course of action is to beat everyone up, ends the game by learning more than she knew previously

Fuck's sake, just accept it. This is part of what makes Reimu charming.

>>16023482
I was talking about her confidence in dealing with outsiders coming mostly from outside sources. She fights in MoF because she's on her home ground, she stands up to Reimu and Mamizou in FS because she's with her gals. She fights others in HM and ULiL despite being out of her playing field because she has a bunch of combat-focused toys she obviously puts great faith in.

Whether that makes her a coward or whatever, I frankly couldn't tell you.

>>16023385
>>That's not an example of a broken intuition is it?
>>16023391
>I think it is. How isn't it, exactly?
>>16023420
>Because she was correct.
>>16023472
>When did I say it wasn't?

>>I think it is. How isn't it, exactly?
>Because she was correct.

>>16023452
>She talks about Yamame polluting the river.
Being angry at someone for doing harm to you is not an insult.
>She uses Parsee as an excuse to talk about how nasty all the youkai outside the city are.
Nice try, she says that the youkai with nasty powers are forced to live outside the city.
>She calls Orin creepy
Nice job jumping from stage 2 to 5 and then ignoring 6 and EX. Also she calls her ''kind of unsettling'' because Orin literally just talked about strong smelling corpses being the best to carry off.

> to badmouth her
No. Being scared of someone and saying they don't want to see them is not ''badmouthing'', that's her being her coward self which has disappeared 100% since then, that's like saying that her escaping from the heroine in MoF is badmouthing them.

>>16023496
She's not actually trying to win fights in HM anyway. She's trying to sell her occult ball, which can only change hands when a fight is lost. And then she keeps winning by accident and trying to sell the new ones too.

>>16023505
The point is Nitori is two-faced. How aren't you realizing that? She's mean until she realizes being mean could be dangerous; then she's nice.

>surprise danmaku volley
>you survive
>another danmaku volley
>you survive
>"Hey, did I ever mention us kappa are old friends of humans?"

>>16023455
>Nitori attacks you like 3 times "out of kindness", and keeps trying to play the pity party card until you beat her out of the way
While also being a coward and escaping the moment she sees you, not at all like HM.
>two faced
But she's not at all like she used to be prior to HM, where has that ''second face'' gone to?
>The only thing that "changed" is that we learned more about her.
And she also stopped being a shy, coward who wasn't extremely aggressive and insulted everyone she came across.

>>16023456
>The original point is that nobody would expect her to be the ultra bitch she is in HM, but I used that line from SA because it hints that she's not exactly the shy kappa she pretends to be in MoF or SA
But there was zero hint of that in MoF, and she has absolutely no reason to be the way she was in that game if she was a hidden two faced character.

Not to mention, where has that second face of cowardice gone? She's 100% ultra bitch mode at all times now.

>>16023505
Are you really that dumb, or just stubborn? Saying "youkai with nasty powers are forced to live outside the city" is an indirect way of saying "the youkai outside the city are the ones who are nasty".

Okay, yeah, maybe Nitori's jabs too subtle for you and/or the translation is bad. She's certainly not nice to people though.

>>16023497
...where do you see me saying that it's not intuition? I said it's not BROKEN intuition, as in, not-working, incorrect.

>>16023512
>not at all like HM.
A fighting game where everyone in it fights?

Recall that in both HM and ULiL Nitori is just being opportunistic.

>where has that ''second face'' gone to?
Whenever she interacts with the human characters in the manga she attempts to assuage them or get them to help, unless they bother her in which case she tries to threaten them.

>she also stopped being a shy, coward
There's an entire arc in FS about how she and all the kappa are cowards, using the dead of the night (and I believe a lake rumor) to try to get an operation going without getting noticed by humans, only to be noticed by a human and try to intimidate them.

I don't know what you mean by the rest of the sentence because she's aggressive in MoF, SA, and every other appearance, but mostly insulting in SA and other installments. She's not very insulting in MoF because you keep kicking her ass. It's like how she stops being mean to Yuugi after realizing Yuugi could come back at her.

Reimu's intuition is broken for stages 1-5, works correctly on stage 6.

>>16023527
When I read "broken" in Internet discussions I take it to mean "overpowered to the point of breaking conventional rules".

For example, Reimu's abilities in general are broken because in theoretically any encounter she is unbeatable.

>>16023516
>zero hint
>this so-called "coward" keeps running into you "by accident" and attacking

>>16023489
>It happened
Dude, I'm saying it because that event contradicts her own route where SHE was the one that froze the moon.
>She's still quick to blame whoever because she doesn't really care.
Doesn't change the fact that they all try to stop her so she's justified in beating them up.
>It's hilarious for you to say that. Pic related.
Yes what about it? That's AFTER Yukari has convinced her to not drink tea and instead beat everyone up. Same happened with Yamame.
>>IaMP: Reimu basically attacks anyone and everyone in her way assuming they're the cause of problems
And they all play along, plus her intuition was right, it was Yukari. Also we don't even know which route of that game is canon, everyone says it's Suika's.
>>SWR: Pretty much the same thing.
Actually if you read the dialogue it's the usual ''greetings by danmaku'' and her intuition does bring her to the culprit.
>>Mof: doesn't understand anything and decides the best course of action is to beat everyone up, ends the game by learning more than she knew previously
Are you serious? By the start of the game she's being threatened to shut off her shrine so she goes to teach the goddess a lesson. Everyone in her path tries to stop her.
>Fuck's sake, just accept it
Nice job ignoring the fact that Reimu forgot about her god-talking skills in WaHH whereas she did so casually in SSiB. Hell Kasen even points out how dumb she is for forgetting it.

>>16023496
>She fights in MoF because she's on her home ground
But she's still a coward there? What are you talking about?

Can you please stop making irrelevant excuses?

>>16023360
>Where?
Man, any time she does that face and knows where/what the trouble is? I don't know how often they explicitly say "intuition" anymore.
>what does that have to do with the fact she never has done this before?
...It's just one tool she has available. I don't think it's particularly weird that she does so, considering it's an ability she has?
She's called upon the gods within WaHH itself at the very beginning. I can't even remember what you meant about Reimu "forgetting" she can call upon gods. Do you mean the dosojin chapter? Because she didn't exactly "forget" there.

>TD Reimu explicitly says she's attacking Miko for literally no reason, so SSiB Reimu would call her a villain.
Reimu's job isn't to "not be antagonistic" and never has been, it's to stop troublemakers and keep balance. If anything she's always been overly antagonistic, for a main character. I don't really disagree she attacked Miko with no "reason", but that's more because she went into an incident expecting to have to beat a troublemaker up and Miko never intended to stir up trouble, hence why she ended up not having a reason when fighting. In any case, saying this chapter was an example of "antagonist Reimu" was flawed, and even if she were acting as the antagonizer it doesn't mean it's any different than before. The fact that SSiB Reimu is a "villain" but still goes along with it makes me confused why you're even talking about this.

>You said that this is what always happens yet I pointed out that that's not the case.
Huh? By "what always happens" I was talking about them as characters as a whole. I don't know why you want specifics of those traits being involved in incidents, I wasn't talking about incidents specifically. Your original comment was that Reimu's attitude here has changed significantly, and I was noting that this chapter instead displays characteristics that they're always had, so complaining about her attitude changing is weird considering the chapter's blatant subtext.

So uh
How about that chapter?

Reimu doesn't particularly mind needless killing.

>>16023509
>The point is Nitori is two-faced
Not cowardly after SA, that's for sure.
>being mean could be dangerous
Except you know, insulting and fighting everyone and their mom in HM and ULiL, including the very shrine maiden that she ran away from in MoF.
>>16023521
>Saying "youkai with nasty powers are forced to live outside the city" is an indirect way of saying "the youkai outside the city are the ones who are nasty".
Or is just saying that that's the tradition, like how saying that ''slums are poor areas'' isn't insulting everyone who lives in one.

>Nice
I didn't say that, but she certainly is not the sailor that she is in HM.

>>16023581
If your first reaction upon entering a slum and meeting a slum-dweller is to turn to your companion and say "most criminals live in the slums you know" then yes you are fucking insulting them.

>>16023531
>A fighting game where everyone in it fights?
Did you just really try using this as an argument?

>Recall that in both HM and ULiL Nitori is just being opportunistic.
She also was being opportunistic in SA yet she also shits her pants the moment Yuugi notices her.

Stop making excuses.
>Whenever she interacts with the human characters in the manga she attempts to assuage them or get them to help
Is that being cowardly like in MoF?
>There's an entire arc in FS about how she and all the kappa are cowards, using the dead of the night (and I believe a lake rumor) to try to get an operation going without getting noticed by humans, only to be noticed by a human and try to intimidate them.
Certainly not reflected in HM and ULiL so what's your point? More evidence that ZUN contradicts himself.
>She's not very insulting in MoF because you keep kicking her ass.
But she runs away from you the moment she sees you.

Also what are you saying, that she's not afraid of getting her ass kicked in HM and ULiL?

How many excuses are you going to make? You do realize that everything that you state on your own assumptions is irrelevant since ZUN would have to confirm them?

>>16023581
Again it's a fighting game so what do you expect?

>>16023557
It looks to me like you straight up like to interpret things completely different from my interpretation. Is there any point in arguing with you?

You honestly believe Reimu Hakurei ISN'T a bullheaded girl who only relies on her guy, is lazy as shit and unpracticed, and just assumes things until her assumptions turn out to be right: AKA a fool.

You seem to like to think that something changed or things are different now too which confuses me. If anything we're only seeing extensions of a bullheaded character by viewing her in different times of her life (outside of incidents) in other events. I don't know why, nor do I particularly care honestly. You want to think something changed? Keep on believing, what could I do to change it?

>>16023547
Now that's stretching it, she runs away from you the moment she sees you and then explains what she's doing, she wants to drive you away.

You've yet to answer WHY is she a coward at all in MoF, what does she have to gain by doing that?

>>16023599
Shirikodama, which she uses en masse in Double Spoiler.

Note: shirikodama are extracted from victims of drownings by kappa. Her danmaku are all water/flood based.

>>16023593
ZUN confirmed that Nitori is an asshole by writing HM. What else do you need?

Why do you keep making excuses for being an idiot who couldn't figure out what Nitori's character was supposed to be even when they were slapping you in the face with it?

>>16023593
I'm not even making excuses. I bring things up and you refuse to accept them. Okay, and?

Nitori's nipples?

>>16023615
pink

>>16023443
>Does praising the underground city and claiming they have friends there ''derogatory''?
I said in that very post that you've misunderstood that passage's translation. She doesn't say "friends" as though they're actually good buddies, and there isn't any "praise"; the "great" was added as flavour to mean "large". There is no reason she'd even praise it in the first place, it's filled with despised youkai.
>Yeah so? Why didn't she insult her like she would have in HM?
She's not going to insult an oni because they have power and influence over her. What the fuck?
>I don't think that ''hello'' was meant to be heard, also if she knew she could be heard, why would she go ''BWUH?!'' when Yuugi starts talking to her?
She says どうも, addresses her directly, and changes her pattern of speech. She never goes "BWUH" or reacts even remotely surprised ever in that exchange. What.

>>16023570
>Man, any time she does that face and knows where/what the trouble is?
Meaning that the intuition isn't broken, thanks for proving my point.
>...It's just one tool she has available
That she has never used before, contrary to the what the post I'm replying to claimed, also the ffact that Reimu does do investigative work of her own the rest of the time.
>She's called upon the gods within WaHH itself at the very beginning.
Helps that a certain someone asked her to do so, but doesn't change the fact that she herself forgot about it later on and Kasen points out how stupid she is for doing so.
>Reimu's job isn't to "not be antagonistic" and never has been, it's to stop troublemakers and keep balance. If anything she's always been overly antagonistic, for a main character. I don't really disagree she attacked Miko with no "reason", but that's more because she went into an incident expecting to have to beat a troublemaker up and Miko never intended to stir up trouble
You're trying really hard to dodge the fact that Reimu in TD explicitly says that she has no reason to fight Miko yet the reason she calls Remilia a villain in SSiB is because she's invading someone for no reason. Meaning that SSiB Reimu is more genre savvy than post-SSiB Reimu.
>The fact that SSiB Reimu is a "villain" but still goes along with it makes me confused why you're even talking about this.
I just told you that Yukari made her do it, why on Earth are you even thinking about this if she herself SAYS that they're the bad guys?
>I was talking about them as characters as a whole
Which is also wrong since as said before, Reimu does investigative work of her own and even dresses up for the ocassion. Don't say ''this is what always happens'' when not only does it not even happen on the mainline games but this is the first time Reimu has taken the simple way out based on her powers rather than search the culprit on her own.

>>16023591
But I didn't say that, nice try.
>>16023598
>Again it's a fighting game so what do you expect?
Are you seriously using this as an answer to a plot-related issue? The hell is wrong with you? How does that matter in the slightest?

>>16023662
>Are you seriously using this as an answer to a plot-related issue? The hell is wrong with you? How does that matter in the slightest?
Fighting game stories are contrived to have characters fight all the time. I don't know why bringing that up bugs you.

They try to justify it in HM and ULiL but it's not an amazing justification. It's a fighting game.

>>16023598
>It looks to me like you straight up like to interpret things completely different from my interpretation. Is there any point in arguing with you?
Hey, you dodged the issue that proves that SSiB Reimu is indeed smarter than post-SSiB Reimu, almost like you know you can't make a counter-argument.

> a bullheaded girl who only relies on her guy, is lazy as shit and unpracticed, and just assumes things until her assumptions turn out to be right: AKA a fool
Not really, she does her job of solving incidents every time as well as the shrine maiden ceremonies, is probably the first Hakure shrine maiden to ever actually get donations from the villagers (see: WaHH), is well-practiced in her job of exterminating youkai and her intuition guarantees that she'll eventually find the culprit.

>>16023603
did you reply to the right post?

>>16023678
The Hakurei shrine, whether or not it's her fault, is a run-down piece of crap. She doesn't know the first thing about running it, and I'm not even talking about getting villagers but in fact the simple idea of "perform rites for your god". She doesn't know anything about her god let alone its rites, and doesn't seem interested in finding out, but still wants to gather donations and faith. It's pretty dumb, and kind of what MoF was ultimately about.

>>16023605
>ZUN confirmed that Nitori is an asshole by writing HM
Well duh, she is now, I'm saying she wasn't like that before.
>Why do you keep making excuses
I am making zero excuses, you people are the ones creating them to justify her sudden change of attitude like ''oh she was in her home turf in MoF!'' or ''she had her gear in HM so she can a bitch all she wants!'' that don't make sense.

>>16023599
>, what does she have to gain by doing that?
>>16023603
>Shirikodama
she says she's friendly but attacks you in the way kappa traditionally attack when they want to kill a human and extract their shirikodama

she gives up when you prove too strong

she fought because you entered youkai mountain, which is a dumb idea for a human, because guess what; youkai (like herself) attack humans

But she tries to twist it around by saying she was attacking you for your own good.

>>16023607
>I'm not even making excuses
Of course you are, you are saying that Nitori is being opportunistic in HM and ULiL as a reason to explain her sudden change of character, yet she also was like that in SA, the game where she shits her pants despite being on the surface, free of harm.

Dang, this is the most circular discussion since Reimu murder.

All Touhou characters should be considered assholes until proven otherwise. It's really the only logical thing to do.

>>16023708
I'll admit that there's contrivance in the fighting games in order for her to be in a fighting game (like a lot of people wanted, no?)

But they still give her excuses to at least be fighting, weak as they are.

And outside of those games she's mostly consistent with what we've come to learn about her.

But that does not matter to you.

>>16023699
>she gives up when you prove too strong
But she was already running away by the time she saw you. She gains nothing from this.

>she says she's friendly but attacks you in the way kappa traditionally attack when they want to kill a human and extract their shirikodama
She told you to leave, meaning she couldn't get the shirikodama if the heroine accepted, then fights you after you refuse to stop you from progressing into the mountain. She even tells the other kappa not to attack you afterwards.

You're trying really hard to twist her words just to fit her 180 degrees of difference in HM. Face it, you would never see MoF Nitori as the nutbag that she is in HM.

>>16023662
I am glad(?) you have put zero skill points into reading comprehension, thus proving once and for all that there is no reason to talk to you. You have saved many people an awful lot of time.

>>16023729
I'm not trying much of anything at all.

But I can see when trying to sound like a good guy might be better than intentionally aggravating someone who seems tough.

Reminder that Nitori attacked you first.

>>16023628
>She doesn't say "friends" as though they're actually good buddies
Even ''Comrades'' is good enough.
>There is no reason she'd even praise it in the first place, it's filled with despised youkai.
That's where the oni live, you know, the people you just said that she should respect.
>She's not going to insult an oni because they have power and influence over her. What the fuck?
So even if she knew that Yuugi knew who she was, she wasn't badmouthing her then like the other posts are claiming?
> She never goes "BWUH" or reacts even remotely surprised ever in that exchange. What.
There's this:
(ひゅい！？）
after Yuugi addresses her.

>>16023633
>Meaning that the intuition isn't broken, thanks for proving my point.
What exactly do you think "broken" is? If you think it means "her intuition doesn't work" then you've severely misunderstood. Anon says "it was always her instinct". I say "yes, but her baffling magical intuition is still a factor in current events, and calling gods is just another thing she can do, which is totally normal".
>That she has never used before
She's called upon the gods several times though?? It's a well-established ability.
>she herself forgot about it
You've said this like five times and keep hammering on it as though it's extremely important but have not sourced it. I legitimately don't know what you're even referring to. If it's the dosojin chapter, your interpretation is super duper wrong.
>You're trying really hard to dodge the fact
What the fuck no. You started by saying "SSiB Reimu would call neo-Reimu a villain, just like she did with Remilia", but the moon invasion is irrelevant here because even though they were "the villains", Reimu was a part of them and totally ok with it because they were having fun. SSiB Reimu would call SSiB Reimu a villain, and that's the whole joke made about the vampire invasion. In this chapter, she's doing as she always has, thinking the tengu are troublemakers and storming them up for it. Now you switched over to TD, but I don't find this a good example either because she went in thinking they were causing trouble. You're acting as if Reimu back then had this moral compass that is more "righteous" than it is now, but her morals and her job have been the same throughout the examples you're giving. Being the aggressor -is not- equivalent to being the troublemaker.

>Which is also wrong since as said before, Reimu does investigative work of her own and even dresses up for the ocassion. Don't say ''this is what always happens'' when not only does it not even happen on the mainline games but this is the first time Reimu has taken the simple way out based on her powers rather than search the culprit on her own.
oh my godddd this has nothing to do with what i was talking about, it's like you don't understand their characterization at all ughhhh

>>16023667
>Fighting game stories are contrived to have characters fight all the time. I don't know why bringing that up bugs you.
I know that, but we're talking about justifying Nitori's sudden personality shift. If MoF was a fighting game would Nitori magically do a 180 personality shift?
>>16023735
What did I miss?

>>16023757
It's not really a "personality shift".

She goes out of her way to fight, something she only does in those two games. In ULiL, she actually has more of an excuse because you NEED to fight to transfer balls.

But her goals, like in SA, are 100% practical.

>>16023691
>She doesn't know the first thing about running it
She cleans it up and does acts of faith that brings donations, the whole purpose of a shrine.
>but in fact the simple idea of "perform rites for your god". She doesn't know anything about her god let alone its rites
She does know rites, she does them in WaHH, SSiB and one of the fairies manga.

Not knowing her god is a different thing, because the shrine has so little faith that it's not even visible, bringing donations and faith is the objective of a shrine and her not managing to do so that was a common joke about her (and still is in FS at least).

With all the times villagers have swarmed the shrine in WaHH I have no idea how the god hasn't so much as said a word yet.

>>16023723
>But they still give her excuses to at least be fighting, weak as they are.
It's not like I ever said that she shouldn't fight, or even mentioned the reasons for her fighting. I know she's opportunistic, but that doesn't transform her MoF self into the extremely aggressive HM and ULiL self.
>And outside of those games
Too bad we're talking specifically about those games.

>>16023749
>Even ''Comrades'' is good enough.
No, you're making the implication that she likes the people in the underground and thus isn't being rude as hell, which is false.
>That's where the oni live, you know, the people you just said that she should respect.
Yeah, and the oni are the one exception to everyone else she treats with negative respect.
>So even if she knew that Yuugi knew who she was, she wasn't badmouthing her then like the other posts are claiming?
I don't think anyone ever said she was badmouthing Yuugi? It's the opposite. She badmouths everyone else, but puts on a face for Yuugi because she's scared of her.
>(ひゅい！？）
That's far later than you were first talking about, and is mainly fear that Yuugi is addressing her directly. She doesn't want to have to talk to her. It has nothing to do with being able to be heard or not. As somebody else remarked, first she told Marisa to tell Yuugi to please stay underground, but when Yuugi addresses her she does the scared-polite thing and invites her over as a formality.

>>16023770
>I have no idea how the god hasn't so much as said a word yet.
This makes it all the much better when the final boss of the last game is the enshrined god.

>>16023770
>She does know rites, she does them in WaHH, SSiB and one of the fairies manga.
Not the rites I'm talking about, man.

Replay MoF and see her ending. The real reason it gathers so little faith is since she can't really invoke or do anything with it. Although she could make an effort to solve this problem she doesn't. I don't think it was in MoF, but in UFO or something Byakuren even mentions her god is angry (or I could be misattributing).

What I am saying is, she has the knowledge to improve her shrine or at least go about improving it. She would just need to do research and maybe train. She doesn't, and instead utilizes weird schemes in hopes of garnering popularity. She even does weird shit like allowing the fairies to start a youkai festival on her grounds to attract customers.

>>16023428
>He doesn't know

Ho Ho Ho Ho

>>16023743
>But I can see when trying to sound like a good guy might be better than intentionally aggravating someone who seems tough.
Even if that were the case, that would contradict her in HM since she insults and fights everyone, including the shrine maiden that beat her up before, so it doesn't fit into your theory. She does have her weapons in MoF because she herself goes ''even with my weapons I couldn't beat you?''

But regardless, there's no reason to act the way she did at first, remember that the reason she stops disappearing is because you broke her camo.
>Reminder that Nitori attacked you first.
The first thing she does is go ''gah! a human?!'' and run away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4vMG5v0E2Y

>>16023778
>but that doesn't transform her MoF self into the extremely aggressive HM and ULiL self.
Nigga why you ignorin that she attacked you first?
>but she jumped up so she was obviously just startled!
And attacked again without saying anything

I see that as aggressive. If you don't, I guess we're done here.

>>16023799
>>The first thing she does is go ''gah! a human?!'' and run away.
And she attacks you first. So? That doesn't contradict what I said.

>>16023754
>What exactly do you think "broken" is?
Malfunctioning.
>She's called upon the gods several times though?? It's a well-established ability.
But not to solve incidents, that's what we're talking about.
>You've said this like five times and keep hammering on it as though it's extremely important but have not sourced it.
WaHH Chapter 23.
> but the moon invasion is irrelevant here because even though they were "the villains", Reimu was a part of them and totally ok with it because they were having fun.
No, I just told you that she only did it because Yukari made her do so, how the hell do you even think this is a valid thing to raise when she HERSELF knows that they're the bad guys? Does she ever acknowledge herself as the bad guy ever again for doing her ''invasions''? No, because she became dumber.
>Now you switched over to TD, but I don't find this a good example either because she went in thinking they were causing trouble
That's not the point, the point is that she realized they weren't causing trouble yet still attacked them, in her own words, for no reason. So SSiB Reimu would call her a villain.
>as if Reimu back then had this moral compass that is more "righteous" than it is now,
Yes, I'm saying that. In fact Reimu nowadays goes against one of the things that ZUN said caused everyone in Gensokyo to like her: to treat everyone in the same way, as shown in IaMP where she doesn't care about attacking humans as well as youkai. Nowadays she's all about ''a youkai must have done it''. Even in SoPM when she storms the meeting, she defends Akyuu, despite her being just as guilty of agreeing to making the ''treaty''.

Most noticeably though, she was way more cool-headed back then, making snarky comments and references here and there, nowadays she's like an overexcited, extremely sensitive child that everyone looks down upon, especially in WaHH where chapters usually end with Kasen and Marisa having a mature conversation while Reimu acts dumb and childish somewhere else.

>>16023761
>It's not really a "personality shift".
Course it is, she's absolutely nothing like she was in MoF and the only trait she shares in SA is her opportunistic self. Being opportunistic does not turn you from a coward into an edgy potty mouth who insults and beats up those whom she was scared of before like Reimu and Marisa, even if you were to take all of petty jabs (that pale in comparison to what Yukari thinks of everybody down there, especially the oni) it's absolutely NOTHING compared to the creature that was Nitori in HM.

>>16023780
>No, you're making the implication that she likes the people in the underground and thus isn't being rude as hell, which is false.
Course it is, calling someone a comrade isn't exactly saying ''fuck you'' like she does in HM.
>Yeah, and the oni are the one exception to everyone else she treats with negative respect.
You make it sound like she's anywhere near as potty mouthed in that game as she is in HM, she at best describes the faults of underground youkai who are hated, and only for Yamame and Parsee. That's petty as hell even when compared to the regular heroine dialogue but you don't see anyone being the the nutbag that Nitori is in HM.
>I don't think anyone ever said she was badmouthing Yuugi?
You know, ctrl+f exists: >>16023452
>That's far later than you were first talking about
No? I've been talking about that ''BWUH?!'' since the beginning.
>She doesn't want to have to talk to her. It has nothing to do with being able to be heard or not.
Really, so she says things like ''ask her to stay underground'' and then expects not to be addressed is what you're saying?

We have been arguing this shit for year now, it's just the same guise too.

Why can't this dude just accept that Reimu is fucking edgy at times.

>>16023788
>Not the rites I'm talking about, man
So you're saying that there's specific god-rites? Where are they mentioned? And isn't the whole point of a god to receive faith? Don't the ''regular'' rites do that trick as well, cause why else do them? And isn't her bringing all those people all those times in WaHH doing her job?
>What I am saying is, she has the knowledge to improve her shrine or at least go about improving it
Which she does in WaHH, she uses the money from donations to expand her shrine, which is later caught in a fire and she has to spend money fixing it.
>The real reason it gathers so little faith is since she can't really invoke or do anything with it.
We don't know anything about this so we shouldn't make assumptions like that, we know she made a little shrine for Kanako in her C MoF ending where Kanako does get invoked (she calls it her ''summer house'') and attracts viewers, this little shrine later appears in the manga, not sure which one but I remember it being one of the early chapters, so it did happen.

Byakuren says she can see and talk to Reimu's god, meaning that it's a matter of not enough faith (by the time that UFO happens at least) to make it visible to regular people.
>train
I'm not sure getting stronger will make her more popular.
>in hopes of garnering popularity
That is indeed the point of a shrine, what matters is getting faith and donations.

>>16023800
>Nigga why you ignorin that she attacked you first?
She doesn't, the first thing she does is run away after seeing you.
>And attacked again without saying anything
Her running off like a coward before ever attacking you is the point here, don't try to dodge it. Like I said, there's no reason for her to do that, which contradicts the ''two faced'' theory that people are claiming. She IS opportunistic by SA, but that facade did not exist in MoF.
>>16023805
Running away before attacking is my point here, honey. It's the one thing that the whole ''oh she was just faking it!'' theory that people keep spouting depends on.

>>16023876
> is fucking edgy at times.
*aggressive, all the time nowadays, whereas back then she was more cool-headed and didn't get angry every nanosecond. Why do you think people got angry at her in UFO? Cause she was way more aggressive and childish in that game compared to the previous games.

She's no longer ''carefree'' like ZUN described her in her profiles. She does not longer ''treat everyone the same way'' like ZUN also described her. She's nothing like EoSD Reimu, they're black and white.

Let me add a word to your vocabularies: arbitrary. It describes some people

also...
>Reimu is a mighty youkai exterminating guardian of humans
>is expect to pay late fees
Funny joke.

>>16023908
She's pretty rude to everyone equally, except maybe Kosuzu.

>>16023838
>Malfunctioning.
Then you misunderstood me, as I said.
>But not to solve incidents, that's what we're talking about
At no point did I ever mention incidents in particular, this whole discussion is not about incidents in particular, I am talking about their characters overall. How they tend to solve problems is one aspect that comes from their underlying characteristics.
>WaHH Chapter 23.
See, that's what I thought. Because nothing about that is even remotely close to her "forgetting" she could call upon gods. Not even close. And yet you keep bringing it up as though she's dumb because she forgot she could do this and making a huge deal out of it. All she did was "realize" that she could use her ability to do so to make yet another quick scheme, which is what's being made fun of, as shrine maidens are supposed to provide these services to begin with.
>Does she ever acknowledge herself as the bad guy ever again for doing her ''invasions''? No, because she became dumber.
No, because what she's doing now -is not the same- as what they did in SSiB. There are no comparisons. As I've explained, being the aggressor in a confrontation is not the same as being the troublemaker, which is an assessment made entirely from Reimu's point of view and is more about how much of a disturbance they're making to normalcy, rather than actual wrongdoing.
>That's not the point, the point is that she realized they weren't causing trouble yet still attacked them, in her own words, for no reason. So SSiB Reimu would call her a villain.
I'm saying your criteria for what constitutes something Reimu would be opposed to "morally" is twisted. Your whole vision here is based entirely on the kinds of events that have been written and how she reacts, rather than her character and why she reacts how she does, and yet you extrapolate those reactions at face value to be her character, leaving you with silly contradictory impressions of who Reimu is.

Additionally, it isn't reasonable whatsoever to suggest she didn't behave the same way in the past, because no similar scenarios even occurred back then for you to say she wouldn't behave the same way. Meanwhile Reimu being perfectly fine beating up youkai in the way while not actually doing wrong themselves, and beating up the book-reading youkai in CoLA for doing literally nothing besides being a youkai, are concrete examples of her back then beating up people that weren't even doing anything suspicious. She's always been shoot first, ask questions later. Always.

>>16023908
She has never felt like bubbly carefree girl, that would be Marisa.

If anything, from the literature, Reimu is edge.

And that's to be expected, she got the whole of Gensokyo on her back.

Here you complain about edgyness, in the fairy thread you complain about happyness.

Why don't you just drop touhou, it's clear by now you don't even like it.

I think Reimu cares a little too much about Kosuzu.

>>16024089
She's reimus only normal friend.

>>16024089
Kosuzu awakens predatory instincts in all older females around her

>>16023855
>Course it is, calling someone a comrade isn't exactly saying ''fuck you'' like she does in HM.
>You make it sound like she's anywhere near as potty mouthed in that game as she is in HM, she at best describes the faults of underground youkai who are hated, and only for Yamame and Parsee. That's petty as hell even when compared to the regular heroine dialogue but you don't see anyone being the the nutbag that Nitori is in HM.
The whole point of this is that she reads similarly in SA as her rudeness in HM. The translations do not get this across very well. This isn't even a conversation in Japan because they can read the text. However, I agree she shows worse in HM. I think this is largely because people are bugging her and she doesn't have a clear goal like in SA, but hey.
>You know, ctrl+f exists
Well, clearly that guy is wrong lol
>No? I've been talking about that ''BWUH?!'' since the beginning.
I meant that I figured you were talking about "before she knows Yuugi can hear her", which is at the very beginning, not post-battle. Anyways, not important.
>Really, so she says things like ''ask her to stay underground'' and then expects not to be addressed is what you're saying?
More that she talks to both Yuugi and Marisa separately. She asks Marisa that after Yuugi points out the orbs, anyways.

>>16024070
It's just that dude.

The dude complaining about fairies is a different dude, Reimu is also edge in the fairy manga.

>>16024036
>At no point did I ever mention incidents in particular, this whole discussion is not about incidents in particular, I am talking about their characters overall. How they tend to solve problems is one aspect that comes from their underlying characteristics.
But as I said multiple times, her doing detective work goes against what you said.
>Because nothing about that is even remotely close to her "forgetting" she could call upon gods
Course she did, otherwise she wouldn't have a realization the moment she was reminded of it.

Also, dude, Kasen and Marisa are pointing out how stupid she is, what more do you want?
>No, because what she's doing now -is not the same- as what they did in SSiB
Wrong, again, she said she attacks Miko for no reason in TD, which SSiB Reimu would look down upon.

>Reimu's point of view
And my point was that her point of view in SSiB was wise enough to figure out that Remilia was the bad guy.
>rather than her character and why she reacts how she does
What am I missing then? Why did she react that way in SSiB but not every single other time that her actions could be judged as evil, like in TD?
>Additionally, it isn't reasonable whatsoever to suggest she didn't behave the same way in the past,
Of course I do, I just explained it in the last part of my post. Do you really expect modern Reimu to ever do the cool-headed, snarky, referencial dialogue that she used to have in EoSD? No, all she does is yell and act dumb like a child, her interesting dialogue is gone.
>Meanwhile Reimu being perfectly fine beating up youkai in the way while not actually doing wrong themselves
Like what? They all get in her way, the only exception would be Tokiko and even Marisa and Rinnosuke don't give a shit, because, by default, her job IS to exterminate youkai. It's also what keeps youkai existing too, why do you think they wanted the spellcard rules so they could keep fighting without risk? Because every single one of them is Yuugi and loves to fight? Hell no. SSiB also happens after CoLA.

>>16024126
>The whole point of this is that she reads similarly in SA as her rudeness in HM
Absolutely not at all, not only are her ''jabs'' petty, only directed at two people who are considered outsider scum by the very underground dwellers themselves, but also tame in comparison to the regular heroine dialogue, and they didn't turn out to be nutbags like Nitori did in HM.
>This isn't even a conversation in Japan because they can read the text.
So you're telling me that her actions in HM is totally expected from her MoF appearance, where she cowardly runs away before even
firing a single bullet? Who are you kidding?
> which is at the very beginning
So you're saying that she IS saying things like ''PLEASE don't come up here'' in her face? I thought you said she wanted to respect her?
> She asks Marisa that after Yuugi points out the orbs, anyways.
Yuugi doesn't realize that a kappa's voice is coming out of those orbs until later, and at that moment is when Nitori goes ''bwuh?!''.

>>16023428
When you have three bodies your spatial awareness takes a hit

>>16023954
That's another character that disproves ZUN's ''treat everyone the same way'' line in Reimu's profile.

Also no, her treatment against youkai in general is way worse than the one against humans like Marisa.
>>16024060
>She has never felt like bubbly carefree girl
Read EoSD's dialogue, the in-game portraits even has her cheerfully smiling after making a snarky comment. Hell the dialogue against Remilia ends with a cheesy line from the two, as if they're self-aware. They also play along with obvious lies like ''you killed Sakuya'', only for the ending to be Remilia casually visiting Reimu at her shrine and giving her a hug (??).

>>16024105
nobody cares that much about Kosuzu other than Reimu, not even Akyuu.

>>16024070
>Here you complain about edgyness
who's complaining about edgyness?

>>16022601
Marisa's starting 2 rub off on her
UR BOTH THEIVIN' ASS BITCHES, 'ZE!!!

>>16022601
I can almost see her underwear

>>16024262

>>16022762
Something out of Abandoned [Viceland TV show].
Quite possibly the former Youkai Mountain Mall.

>>16024232
I dunno, that Tanuki bitch Mamizou might have lesbious designs on Kosuzu...

WINGS

So why are the Tengu trying to hide the fact that they're protecting the village from other youkai?

>>16024305
it's pretty clear that Mami's ulterior motive is doing something with Kosuzu to help the youkai side, she already revealed her support of it.

my guess is that ZUN is showing how much Reimu cares about Kosuzu so that it hurts extra hard when Kosuzu ends up having to be dealt with due to Mamizou's meddling.

>>16024101
Rinnosuke is more normal than her.

>>16024036
>She's always been shoot first, ask questions later
does that include the aforementioned SSiB scene where she points out that they're the bad guys and are going to lose?

>>16024322
to piss off the other youkai?

even artists know that Reimu's changed.

>>16022601
I paid the late fees. It wasn't the money, it was the books she checked out that disturbed me.

>>16024383

>>16024387
Have at it, hoss.

>>16024262
What underwear?

>>16024419
exactly.

>>16024374
The Crimson Slasher is always the best Reimu.

>>16024508
me too.

she sometimes smiles even when the dialogue suggests that she should have an angry face, ZUN's really something.

What is this face trying to convey?

>>16024322
cold war between factions

>>16024540
Uneasiness.

>>16024540
about to vomit

>>16024336
he is more of a business relationship

>>16024590
is that business letting every girl take items from his store without paying ever?

>>16023062
Marisa doesn't need hers, she only uses it to look more like a witch

>>16024540
>>16024544
>>16023083
>>16023140
>>16023140
2cute

>>16023416
>>16023438
They're talking about the previous storm, not any current wind, and Marisa flies away no trouble at the end of the scene anyway.

It amazes me that people still argue that Aya doesn't have wings after stuff like this.

Time for more cute reaction pics!

>>16024640

>>16022601
She's only borrowing them until she dies, Kosuzu.

>>16024664
apparently Marisa really does believe that since she gets really angry when she gets called a thief and starts stuttering.

>>16024640

>>16024672

>>16024667
That's cute

>oh boy, a new FS, i wonder what /jp/ is saying about it
>thread starts doomsaying shitposting, nostalgia wankery and secondaries

>>16025263
eww, a bkubposter, and a non-quoting greentexter to boot, shoo shoo.

>>16025263

>>16025280
How difficult would that to implement? I don't know coding but would it be possible for the site to check all the replies in the thread and return that error message if the greentext you're trying to write doesn't match with them? It could be a fun thing for April Fools or something

>>16024374
Isn't the whole point of Touhou is that character's personality is supposed to be ambiguous?

>>16025393
No. Most characters still act the same way they did since their first appearance.

>>16025402
Explain this >>16024374 then

>>16024613
Well still, you do SEE winds on that very page

>>16025309
Not too bad at all: substring matching is a well-investigated problem, and the 4chan server certainly has the quoted post readily available.

I'd also like to see it have an exception if you attribute the quote another way, for example

>A shikigami as powerful as Ran can employ their own shikigami, despite being a shikigami themselves. That shikigami is Chen.
-- ZUN

(those quotes would have to be taken on faith, I suppose.)

>>16025420
If you read my post carefully you might just notice the word ''most''.

>>16025420
Artist didn't notice that the different entries so the characters in different situations.

Like how WaHH elaborates on Reimu's tendency to scheme, Sangetsusei shows Reimu not really doing much since it's always downtime, and games it's all business mode.

>>16025430
>Like how WaHH elaborates on Reimu's tendency to scheme
and is way dumber, more energetic (even when not scheming) and aggressive.

the personalities stated in those pictures are present throughout the book/games in question, not just at certain points.

some people have come with a theory to explain this: each manga's Reimu is based on the perspective of the mascot character (Kourin, lunarians, the fairies, Kasen, Kosuzu) and the crimson slasher who smiles when talking about butchering her victims but also somehow befriends them is the true Reimu.

>>16025427
Are you excluding Reimu, the character that matter the most from consistent characterization?

>>16025430
This explanation makes sense. But I can't help but feel that the Reimu in WaHH is a little bit too eager in doing dumb/reckless thing compared to SSiB or Sangetsusei. Kasen especially has to constantly lecture her about it.

Or maybe she's just sort of bipolar, being really passive when it doesn't concern or interest her while getting much more enthusiastic when it is.

>>16025503
>Are you excluding Reimu, the character that matter the most from consistent characterization?
Can you retype that?

Are you saying Reimu's been the most consistent in personality when that image shows otherwise?

>>16025517
I think he's saying that Reimu is the character for whom it matters most to be consistently characterized. This sort of makes sense: Reimu shows up the most often, so if anyone were to have a well-defined personality, it should be her.

>>16025517
I'm saying that this >>16025427 doesn't really refute this >>16025393 since Reimu is literally the main protagonist and thus matters the most.

>>16025532
But saying that that's the whole point of Touhou and basing it simply on the main character alone while excluding the other 150 or so characters is kind of silly.

>>16025537
Ok, I agree that "the whole point" is a little bit too extreme but it's still a major point. So, Reimu having different "feels" to her is probably how it's supposed to be.

Or, according to >>16025472, it could be a matter of perspective. Which I agree that kinda makes sense too. If we can't take Akyuu's words as 100% truth, then we can't take the mangas as 100% true depiction of characters either.

>>16025531
The whole point of Reimu is that she's a really weird person and everyone has her own perspective on her. This has been stated repeatedly, both by the characters and by ZUN himself.

ZUN also points out that he's never told a story from Reimu's perspective. Even Yukari has been a narrator and bared her inner thoughts to the reader, but Reimu never will.

Aya have been seen with and without wings, Hatate have been seen with and without wings.

The ones saying that Aya does not have wings are getting btfo

>>16025655
Do you like her with or without wing, anon?

>>16025660
I like Both.

Ayaya

>>16025684
Ayayayaya

>>16022812
Things have changed because for the games you are playing from the perspective of Reimu.

In the print works, you are generally viewing Reimu from the perspective of other characters, which causes her to be portrayed differently. Marisa, for her part, is usually the reader stand-in.

>>16024232
Mamizou is going to prey on that Kosuzu cunny.

>>16025709
Is that accurate?

>>16025655
Show me 1 (one) instance in ANY of the games where Aya has wings.

>>16025857
I guess Kosuzu isn't a canon character then.

>>16025880

>>16025995
Meant for
>>16025857

I would just like to chime in and say that this issue is no more proof than any of the previous issues in terms of "does Aya canonically have wings?". While we are shown Marisa holding up a downy feather, yes, text wise Marisa figures out the culperate thanks to her geta leaving marks. We don't know if Zun explicitely told the artist to draw Marisa examining a feather, or if is simply an artistic liberty taken to make it more obvious that "Tengu were here".

>>16026102
Please be bait

>>16026013
Hardy har har. Instead of being a witty cunt, you could provide arguments to support your point.

>>16026102
In the topic of feathers, there's an official drawing of Aya by Hirasaka that showcases both crow wings and wingless Aya. Moreover, Aya says in BAiJR,
>I haven't flown that slowly since my feathers grew.
even though ZUN has never shown tengu with wings. So the presence of feathers does not equate to the presence of wings, they might be armpit hair or something.

>>16026121
>they might be armpit hair or something.

>>16026133
Pubic feathers, rather.

>>16026104
This dabate has always been a matter of three factors.
How much freedom does ZUN give his artists in their interpretations of his characters.
How faithful is this interpretation to ZUN's original vision.
Does this interpretation supersede ZUN's own interpretation of his own characters?

To simplify and dismiss the issues being discussed here is nothing short of willful, intentional ignorance.

>>16026102
>>16026121
Holy fuck.

>>16026170
We have way WAY more proof of Aya having wings than not.

You're just gonna keep deluding yourself until ZUN himself comes here and slaps your secondary face, so what's the point? There's no dicussion to be had.

>>16026180
Not really. A large majority of the proof could be chalked up to artistic interpretation, meanwhile ZUN himself has never protrayed a winged Aya, despite clearly being able to draw wings. It was an intentional choice on his part, in other words.

>>16026102
>>16026121
Doesn't she have a crow partner in some ZUN art?

>>16026208
Yes.

>>16026201
Then I guess Clownpiece doesn't have a right thumb.
That's also an intentional choice by ZUN.

>>16026180
>We have way WAY more proof of Aya having wings than not.

>>16026220
See: >>16025995

>>16026227
I thought you said anything that isn't drawn by ZUN doesn't count.
Therefore you still have no proof, also how is it a "false equivalence" when it's your exact same logic? It only false when it's convenient for you?

What a bad joke, end yourself.

This is literally the stupidest recurring Touhou argument ever. There is nothing worse than this.

>>16026238
>I thought you said anything that isn't drawn by ZUN doesn't count.
OH OKAY, LET'S GO WITH THAT.

SHOW ME 1 (ONE) PICTURE DRAWN BY ZUN'S OWN HANDS THAT SHOWS AYA WITH WINGS.

>>16026265
Either you've suddenly decided to act like a dumbass, or you're falseflagging.

>>16026280
I don't see the picture.

Do you have a picture.

>>16026239
Is there a list of stupid Touhou arguments that run in circle and solve absolutely nothing?

>>16026349
It's not like we're trying to say that it's impossible that Aya could have wings, we're just saying that it isn't a certainty.
Blame the other guy for getting upset over that.

>>16026349
Who's the most powerful 2hu?
Why won't ZUN bring back X?
Why isn't there a 2hu anime, ZUN could get rich!
How do you pronounce Cirno?

>>16026370
Those last two are simply shitposts.

>>16026370
>How do you pronounce Cirno?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoT0b0vKHYg

>>16026239
>Reimu and Marisa aren't lolis

>>16026239
Yeah. This whole thread is shit.

One of the worst I've ever seen.

>>16026416
It's /v/.

>>16026370
Reimu is a man-hating monster, or alternatively, Reimu did nothing wrong.
Anything related to Play Doujin or the PS4
Why isn't Touhou as good as it was when I first got into it?
X game was awful and killed the franchise.

>>16026416
That one guy was clearly defending his mental image of his waifu and should have been called out on it.

>>16026416
Even thread like
>Which 2hu is the best and why is it X?

is better

There is a new chapter and the thread is full of Aya and Nitori and some retarded argues. What the hell? Anon's are not taking it easy.

>>16026886
These threads always have ridiculous and inane arguments, usually about stuff that barely has anything to do with the actual topic. Nobody knows why.

Chapter was pretty good, at least. Reimu and Marisa being genuinely worried about their friend, Tengu confirmed as nice guardians of humanity.

>>16026886
It started when someone sperg out over Reimu not being as cool as before anymore.

>>16026615
They were called out for it, sort of. I stopped replying because I realized I was arguing two different topics with the same person that didn't know how to argue, kept misrepresenting points and jumping all over the place, and overall had a fractured understanding of the series that kept leading to them not getting the responses given to them. Fucking exhausting.

>>16026265
Got you covered.

>>16027669
Same.

>>16026416
>>16026877
I guess it proves genuine /jp/ secondaries are eons better than /v/ """"primaries""""

>Aya has wings!
>No, she doesn't!

Considering Tengu are god damn shapeshifters, both of these are correct. Still, I'm a bit confused. Why is it we never talk about whether Mamizou has a tail or not? She's a shapeshifter as well. She's sometimes shown with a tail, and sometimes without. What makes Aya so special as to warrant all that discussion?

>>16026907
Personally, I think it comes off "trying to follow to ZUN as possible" instead of ZUN's original style of "filling in the gaps" in recent years. It's one thing to be against memdog and Aya yuri. It's another to go into inane bullshit about wings.

>>16028101
>Tengu are god damn shapeshifters
[citation needed]

>>16028101
More people like Aya's wings than Mamizou's tail, so it stirs up more shit to says the former doesn't exist.

>>16028101
Who are you quoting?

>>16029050
What's funny is that, as far as I can tell, these arguments are always started by people on the pro-Aya wing side.

>>16029289
>Who are you quoting?
Paraphrasing, actually. The overall gist of discussion in this thread.
>>16028541
>[citation needed]
Japanese mythology. Go read a book.

>>16029319
Mm? Oh, forgive me, I must have completely missed the part where Touhou youkai are 1:1 to real life youkai. That's why they all look like human girls, right?

>>16029495
>real life youkai
Are you saying that youkai are both real, and nothing like they are in Touhou?

>>16029289
Not at all. It's usually Ayafags talking about her wings, than someone comes in going "Um, actually..." This time was an exception.
I'm entirely convinced it's one guy trying to stir up trouble or being incredibly autistic. Or both.

>>16029621
I usually see it happen the other way. With a new manga coming out, some guy saying something along the lines of "Aya confirmed for wings! BTFO'd!", then someone explains why the manga doesn't explicitly confirm that Aya actually has wings for whatever reason, and the first poster starts calling him an idiot for disagreeing.

>>16029653
I guess we're seeing different threads.
And nobody's calling him an idiot for disagreeing, they're calling him an idiot for having a really, really bad argument that he's really, really persistent with.

>>16029495
>real life youkai
Go to bed, Maribel.

>>16029682
How is it a bad argument? The main discussion here is one that's been part of Touhou for a while. This wouldn't be the first time a manga artist has drawn things that aren't exactly canon (the most notable example being the Lunarian weapons in SSiB, though there are a few other examples.)

I think the main thing people are trying to argue here is that ZUN's own works should be taken as the most canonical representation of said characters, ignoring things such as obvious art mistakes.

Does it matter that much? Not particularly. I for one don't care if you want to portray an Aya with wings, and the shapeshifter explaination, while unconfirmed, is perfectly valid and reasonable. It just bothers me when someone starts to argue that Aya with wings is THE canonical interpretation, and you're wrong for believing otherwise.

>>16029716
>Aya with wings is THE canonical interpretation, and you're wrong for believing otherwise.
So what should we believe in mr. autist?

>>16029716
>It just bothers me when someone starts to argue that Aya with wings is THE canonical interpretation, and you're wrong for believing otherwise.
So what should we believe in mr. autist?

>>16029737
That it's unconfirmed if Aya actually has wings until we get a more valid confirmation of this, such as a drawing or statement from ZUN?

>So what should we believe in mr. autist?
Nice rebuttal, the generic insult really adds a nice touch.

This thread is why primaries should just stick to playing their shitty twenty year old games not try to interact with the general population.

>>16029757
>a drawing or statement from ZUN?
Oh, so I guess Kosuzu doesn't really look the way she does because ZUN has never drawn her.
I guess the written "Kosuzu" isn't even there right?

This is your own logic by the way.

>>16029765
No, it really isn't.
There's not ZUN interpretation of Kosuzu to even conflict with, anon. If ZUN were to portray Kosuzu in one of the games, and it contradicted the manga Kosuzu in some way, I would take ZUN's interpretation as more canonical, yes.

That other anon was right, you really do love your false equivalencies.

>>16029776
Didn't ZUN say that generally the more recent works take precedence in terms of canon? The manga are more recent than STB/DS.

>>16029776
>That other anon
Don't pretend mr. autist.

>I would take ZUN's interpretation as more canonical, yes.
Here's another "false equivalence" for you

By your logic here, Clownpiece doesn't have a right thumb, and it clearly contradicts the manga.
Does that mean that her lack of thumb is canon?

>>16029791
>By your logic here, Clownpiece doesn't have a right thumb

>>16029716
>ignoring things such as obvious art mistakes.

I'm stopping here, anon. It's clear that you want nothing more than to ruin this thread further with your circular shitposts, and I want no further part in that.

Someone find a pic of the Three Fairies from that chapter where they disguise themselves as humans to spook Reimu. That should prove that fairies don't have wings.

>>16029825
>ignoring things such as obvious art mistakes.
OOooh so I guess we only ignore the stuff that's convenient for you like "obvious art mistakes"

Are Aya's wings also "obvious art mistakes"? after COUNTLESS appearances?

>circular shitposts, and I want no further part in that.
read: I've got no argument left

>>16029836
Has ZUN ever drawn the three fairies?
They are not canon.

>>16029851
Aya is a character from Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red. Aya is not canon.

>>16029851
Technically, ZUN hasn't drawn anything. ZUN's HANDS do the drawing.

Touhou is non-canon to Touhou.

>>16030011
Touhou is not real.

>>16030011
ZUN has never drawn his hands, therefore everything made by them is non-canon.

>>16029289
>What's funny is that, as far as I can tell, these arguments are always started by people on the pro-Aya wing side.
This is true.

>>16030038
I agree.

>>16026370
Do youkai eat humans?

>>16029846
>Are Aya's wings also "obvious art mistakes"? after COUNTLESS appearances?
Well, I crunched some numbers and discovered that in all of Aya's appearances in all of the mainline games, she had a total of 0 (zero) appearances with wings. I decided to investigate further into the matter. First, I wanted to see if the same was true amongst ALL games. So I changed the formula a bit, did some extra math and it turns out the number of Aya appearances with wings across all of the Touhou Project games still equates 0 (zero). Wondering if I ran into a new discovery, I thought of also counting her depictions made by the manga artists. With the people in this picture >>16026227 and the fact that Moe Harukawa drew Aya without wings in addition of with, I've calculated that she was depicted without wings by 6 artists in their respective official side works for the franchise, outnumbering the depictions with wings by 4 (with a margin of error of 1). With all of this taken together, we can conclude that Aya's appearances with wings are actually not "countless", but also far fewer than her appearances without said wings.

And in regards to your other point, we can easily deduce that Aya's lack of wings is not an art mistake but an intentional feature by the simple fact that ZUN drew Aya a total of 7 times (PoFV portrait, StB portrait, MoF portrait, SA ReimuC ending, DS portrait, player sprite used in PoFV, StB and DS and boss sprite used in PoFV, MoF and DS) and not a single of those times did she have wings. Obviously, had it been a mistake, she would have wings in at least one of her direct depictions by the creator of the franchise but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Your move.

>>16029776
>That other anon was right, you really do love your false equivalencies.
Of course he does, there's no other way he can make his point. He's also a secondary - he failed to recognize Extra of the Wind the first time I pointed it out.

>>16030119
>in all of the mainline games, she had a total of 0 (zero) appearances with wings.
You mean that in all her "huge" history of appearances in the games she didn't have wings? WOOW

>can conclude that Aya's appearances with wings are actually not "countless"
Wanna start posting the panels?
You're gonna get short of them really fast famicom.

>he failed to recognize Extra of the Wind the first time I pointed it out.
That never happened you dumb autist.

Also what took you so long? are you really that frustrated?

>>16030134
>You mean that in all her "huge" history of appearances in the games she didn't have wings?
Yes? What's your point? None? Yeah, thought so.

>Wanna start posting the panels?
I was about to say "do it yourself if you think you're right", but then I realized you wouldn't because you know they wouldn't be enough.

>Also what took you so long? are you really that frustrated?
I don't live off of shitposts, my dear shotty.

>>16030222
If you are so busy, then why are you wasting your time defending this shit when you've clearly lost?

Also dropping names like that won't get you anywhere, just a little advice for a newfag like you

>>16030233
>no argument

>>16030349
Who are you quoting?

>>16030358
Your argument.

>but i dont have one
Exactly.

>>16030358
>>16030505
Get a room.

>>16030505
But, who are you quoting?

BY THE WAY FOLKS

It has been brought to my attention that FS recently celebrated an anniversary, some four years ago (on the 26th from memory) this manga started publication

Holy autism, have you idiots never considered that she can hide her wings? You know, like most demons can?

>Aya will never save you from a natural disaster then milk you dry before releasing you

>>16032492
They are either too stupid, or want to stir up trouble.

>>16032547
Is Aya ruined forever, like memedog and memecat?

>>16032567
>memedog and memecat
Which one?

Magical disappearing wings.

>>16032695

>>16032605
Orin already has bad jokes as annoying as the honk grill memes?

>>16032492
Holy autism, have you secondary never considered that that's just a headcanon? You know, like most of your Touhou knowledge?

>>16032567
Of course not. She took slutmeme, she can take this.

>>16032567
No, people are just retards.

>>16032812
she literally hides them in FS

>>16036721
>non-ZUN art
>most of the other artists agree she doesn't have wings
>they are never referred to in text
Try again.

>>16037361
Stop, final warning.

Is Aya the perfect example that Zun gives his artists to much freedom? When co-creators can do shit like giving Touhou fetish outfits, boob bounces and totally changing a character like giving her wings it clearly shows that Zun does not have enough control over his works.

>>16037416
Is your post the perfect example of autism?

>>16037416
We should kill all the manga artists and have ZUN draw everything from now on, so it will all be canon.

>>16037361
>most of the other artists agree she doesn't have wings

HAHAHAHAHA

Clearly we should discard even literature because they are not games, ZUN art nowhere to be seen and nobody can prove that they were actually written by ZUN.

>>16037525
>being an actual, true blue secondary
>>16026227

>>16037466
If ZUN draws the mangas then chapters will take milleniums to come out and they'll be infinite meme material, it took a Marisa portrait to make 2chan go bananas, imagine what would happen with an entire manga.

Nitori
>2016 /jp/ doesn't know anything about japanese folklore

Reimu
>2016 /jp/ doesn't know people can develop or change or feel and think different things in different situations

>>16038651
Who are you quoting?

>>16038666
No one.

>>16037610
Nah, we just need to come up with head canons to explain every little inconsistency in art between guest artists.

Lily White, thanks to SSiB, canonically has the ability to split into two bodies. If you argue that the artist simply made a mistake or was simply granted a degree of artistic liberty while drawing the manga because details like Lily White talking to herself at a party don't matter, then you are a fucking autist and I'm going to start shitposting at you I swear.

>>16040299
The joke is no one ever posts the postscript with the artist saying zun's extremely specific about certain things while not giving a fuck about the rest. That's the best kind of trolling, when the guys being trolled aren't even aware of the facts.

Yukionna have doppleganging abilities, anyway.

>>16028101
Tanuki powers are well described.
They cannot make their tails disappear, but they can shrink them down to make them less noticable.

>>16042137
He's specific about certain things, sure, such as expressions and certain character placements, but it's not like he's literally describing every detail about every character, including things like body shapes and exact specifications of clothing. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, Reimu and Marisa's winter clothing were basically up to the artist in question.

You clearly don't know much about the relationship between comic/manga writers and artists if you think the writer can oversee and control every little thing that the artist does. If that were possible of feasible in the time frame that these things come out in, SSiB wouldn't have had so many canon mistakes in its art.

Again, the wings are probably just small details that ZUN doesn't really care much about. Does this make them explicitly canon attributes of Aya's? Not particularly, unless ZUN either retcons several things by stating that Aya has always had wings, or explains that Tengu are shapeshifters in canon material, at least to a limited degree.

And it's not like this matters too much. Is anyone going to get mad if you portray Aya with wings? Probably not. The only thing that gets people mad, apparently, is claiming that Aya having wings might not actual be true to ZUN's own interpretation of the character.

I just see these accusations of ignorance so often, it's kind of tiresome. But, I'm sure you'll just continue ignoring my arguments and will just attack me directly, so not sure why I bothered.

>>16043068

[citation needed]