/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>12320678
got a link to the other chapters?

>>12320678
Is ZUN building up to some Human-Youkai War?

>>12320780
If humans stopped fearing Youkai, the very existence of the Youkai would be at stake

Don't trust Byakuren's lies...

Never change, Akyu.

>>12320803
I will not be so easily swayed by you. I love Byakuren as I love God.

>>12320803
Such a thing would be harmless to Humans though. The fastest way for Gensokyo to collapse is for Humans to befriend Youkai. To stop fearing them.

There are many Youkai that exists because of belief, such as fairies, the (weak) Gods depend on Faith. Only the malignant Youkai would be affected.

Oh Gensokyo, you so inconsistent.

>>12320867
It makes perfect sense. Do you not see?

It's natural for human women to be jealous of superior counterparts.

>>12320870
No. One second hand Touhou's all silly and not serious, and the next YOUKAI ARE HUMANITIES ANCIENT ETERNAL ENEMIES FOREVER NEVER FORGET. Which I can't even buy, because no matter how many times we hear that, we almost never, ever see any evidence of it.

>>12320882
Didn't you just read about the evil fox youkai?

>>12320862
Can you remove the white part?

>>12320885
Don't forget her evil scriptures.

aw, that was a sweet chapter. Also Keine neat.

>>12320767
It's in the archive.

you don't need to make a thread for every new page you translated, who even reads the 2hu manga..

>>12320887
>>12320885
The what-now?

>>12320903
Totally not a poor attempt at trolling.

Hmm, seems like I've missed chapter 18. Does anyone have the link for that?

>>12320882
>One second hand Touhou's all silly and not serious
That's what's actually happening
>and the next YOUKAI ARE HUMANITIES ANCIENT ETERNAL ENEMIES FOREVER NEVER FORGET
and that's the charade that needs to be upheld so all the youkai won't die, and correct for retardmoding feral youkai that don't even understand the concept of rules.

I really don't agree with grimderp-fags on intelligent youkai (like every character seen in the games) murdering even outsiders. That would change practically everything, and down that way lies only madness.

Not to mention that an actual exorcism would have affected Keine as well. And if the villagers catch wind that a fully grown, time devouring Hakutaku was the teacher, shit would have hit the fan.

>>12320966
How exactly would that change anything?

No one gives a shit about outsiders.
Every moment humans die in horrible ways, but we don't care because we aren't there.

Stop with your silly pride for humanity, it's either eat or get eaten in this world.
Well but I guess it's only human to act irrational whenever it's humans being at the short end of the stick for once

>>12320992
Surely they already know. And Hakutaku are very pro-human youkai anyway.

ch 18 where?

Kosuzu is so going to fuse with her scroll and become a youkai by the end of this thing.

>>12320678
Akyu would make a fine American

>>12321024
http://www.mediafire.com/download/8hyyk9p6cdwb1kn/Forbidden_Scrollery_18(v0.5).rar

>>12321251
thanks anon

I want to fugg kozusu!

Heh, I hope the 2hu canon will be more like Yakumi Sarai's headcanon

>>12320992
Keine X Bald Teacher OTP confirmed.

>>12321714
You mean build up a story, then have a retarded ass ending?

There's a considerable chance this could happen

>>12321714
>Yakumi Sarai
Yeah, no. He actually made Kanako and Suwako extremely unlikable, not to mention make Sanae do somethingcompletely against her nature.

>>12320855
She´s a bitch that will stab you in the back. Edgy doujinshi confirmed it.

>>12321994
When was this?

>>12322069
http://exhentai.org/g/720862/38479f5739/

>>12321919
Reminder that KeineXMokou is null'd.

>>12322078
Oh, him. That books was fine with the Moriyas. If anything it mad the nameless tengus look like dicks.

Remember to do your civic duty and breed only with humans.

>>12322084
Anon, we can't go pairing Touhous with some extra just because they appear in the same panel. They're not even interacting.

>>12320992
>And if the villagers catch wind that a fully grown, time devouring Hakutaku was the teacher
But everyone already knows that dude, in japanese mythology Hakutaku are servants of the human emperor and in fact it's considered rude to be rude to them, meaning there's no issues at all and in fact she's cherished.

>>12322095
Keine's part human. Is she fair game?

>>12322095
oh my~

How many times is ZUN gonna touch the ''oh wait youkai aren't so bad after all'' topic? He touched it at the end of the fairies manga, again in WaHH when Mami visits Reimu and yet again here like it needs to be re-stated as much as possible with characters always acting oblivious to it till the end like it never happened before.

>>12322086
tengus by definition are dicks, they're like goblins of the japs.

>>12322111
Wasn't the last kitsune Reimu met evil?

this is the 3rd youkai that transforms into Marisa, and this one seems to have learned from the other two because it didn't seem to have any faults like having the braid on the wrong side, or at least faults not big enough for a sleep-less Reimu to notice right away.

>>12322130
Yes, same with the tanuki-risa, ish, what about it?

>>12322130
>>12322138
How do we define them as evil? They didn't do much, besides stealing some food.

>>12322141
Stealing food is evil.

>>12322743

>>12320992
I wish I had a badass bald teacher

>>12320992
Where did Keine lose her eyes?

>>12320678
Dude come on,why would you link the draft version at all?

>>12322839
Can someone remove the white stuff?

>>12320992
Everyone in the village knows about Keine's condition. And when it's not the full moon she's completely human.

>>12324353
Because he just made it, nerd. He is hoping for some CC.

>>12320780
...what. Conflict between humans and youkai is the premise of the entire franchise. If anything he's moving further away.

Youkai are the enemies of humanity by definition. As in, they're made of concepts, so conflict with humans is literally a part of them. You can make the conflict less dangerous (as the Spell Card rules have done), but if you actually remove the conflict then they'd die and take Gensokyo with them. This is what Akyuu is talking about, and it's far from the first time she's done so.

Heck, the whole reason Keine started the school was because some of the villagers were idiots and went around actually attacking youkai, instead of just playing Cowboys & Indians with them like they're supposed to.

>>12324569

Really? Youkai/monsters/myths are sustained through their ambiguity rather than animosity. They are concepts, as in unknown sounds in the night, sudden breakage of objects, mysterious strangers, a murder without witnesses, etc.

They have to be misunderstood and kept away from in order to survive, but that doesn't mean that all youkai are gunning for humans.

>>12322138
is that the story behind TD extra?

I'M AWESOME, HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE YOUKAI DON'T STAND A CHANCE AGAINST ME :O

>>12326971
no, that's another tanuki.

>>12327039
What if the real Marisa died sometime during the PC-98 era, and she was Mamizou acting ever since? This would explain the hair color change.

>>12327063

Mamizou disguised as Nue disguised as Marisa.

Can we solve this youkai-human problem if everyone in Gensokyo were just half-youkai? Byakuren's ideal can be achieved that way. No need for prejudice and youkai don't need to be feared or anything anymore since they can just live like normal humans like Keine and Rinnosuke.

>>12327889
>Can we solve this youkai-human problem if everyone in Gensokyo were just half-youkai?
fuck off kike, racemixing is the worst thing that can happen, it's essentially genocide.

>>12328227
But youkai are clearly the superior race. Wouldn't you want your race to become superior? Think of the future.

>>12328466
>But youkai are clearly the superior race
kek no, they need someone else to believe in their existence to survive.

>>12328471
Isn't that weakness solved by being half human?

>>12327889
You may be right
YoukaixHuman breeding programs should be established

>>12328471
How does that make them lesser than humans?
Youkai:
+Do everything humans can
+Can survive potentially forever
+Unable to die from wounds that would kill a mortal man
+Are stronger, faster, and potentially smarter than humans
+Some youkai reach the level of Gods, like Yukari. A human can never be compared to any kind of God, no matter how hard they try.

>>12328525
Yes. But it would be ideal that the humanxyoukai couple were in love with each other as they make their children.

Fight for your future. Protect men from youkai wiles.

>>12328556
A loving union between human and youkai that produces many children
This is something that I can get behind and think is the best possible route for Gensokyo

>>12328556
Humans are unable to die from things that would kill a youkai. A youkai can be killed by SYMBOLISM if it's strong enough.
Plus most youkai are essentially OCD by human standards.

>>12328842
Yeah, humans are just able to die in hundred other ways.

>>12328893
More like thousands, a sharp fucking stick can kill humans...or a rock aimed at the right spot.

>>12328842
Not all youkai are like that.

Some are self sustainable, such as the moon rabbits. No one believe in them.

Then again, they are aliens, and aliens are on the rise nowadays with cosmic "there might not be gods but we might not be alone" belief.

>>12328556
Gods can become gods pretty easily: all you have to do is get worshiped. Even in the series itself Sanae and Miko have managed to become gods, and Kanako maybe depending on you interpret her SoPM profile.

That said, gods pretty much suck if you're not a big one (ie: the Aki sisters suck and are basically homeless vagrants), so you're probably better off becoming a hermit.

>>12329541
I meant "humans can become gods"

>>12329541
I believe that Sanae has the genes of a God (Suwako), correct? Wouldn't she be more of a demigod than a God?

Also, how is Miko a god? Haven't caught up with the recent lore, but is she not just a revered saint?

> Aki sisters suck and are basically homeless vagrants
They're nature Gods and they're not human. Why would they need a home? They're an embodiment of nature.

>>12329541
Only Kanako is hinted to have a true human background, and even then, getting worshiped is not an easy task.

>>12329622
She's descended from Suwako, but she became worshiped in life on her own, making her a full 100% god. Also 100% human, but those aren't mutually exclusive.

Miko also became worshiped as a Shinto deity after she died. This is the more normal process of deification. Kanako briefly mentions it in the SoPM dialog. Someone built a shrine to Shoutoku Taishi somewhere an BAM, instant god.

Nature gods still need shrines to focus their worship. Otherwise they get lost in the competition and eventually revert back to nameless spirits.

Anyway, becoming a god doesn't seem any particularly easy or harder than becoming a youkai, nor is being a god particularly safe or powerful. The Akis were just an example of weak, minor gods who are in constant danger of disappearing.

>>12328471

Can youkai believe in themselves?

>>12333140
No, it's like ttgl, it has to be someone else who believes in you.

>>12329622
Thee Aki sisters always get invited to the harvest festivals though.

>>12333148

If I split myself multiple times like Suika, can I believe in the existence of each individual mini-Suika?

>>12328917
>No one believe in them.
You don't have to genuinely believe that there are rabbits hanging around in the moon. The idea that the face of the moon looks kind of like a rabbit with a hammer is enough. There's probably a Man on the Moon youkai as well.

Even shit like Slenderman and Smiledog are essentially youkai.

>>12333163
I want to give them my faith!

>>12333207
If simple belief like that is enough, it's incredible hard to kill youkai.

It's like trying to forget something, the more you try the more you remember.

>>12333207
>>12334311
...the moon is pure.

Moon rabbits are aliens.

>>12334311
Congratulations, you've discovered how they've been alive for millennia.

>>12334311

You weren't transported by a gap. You just got drunk and woke up in the next town over.

>>12321953
Hell it works for Junji Ito.

Wild and Horned Hermit is surprisingly early this month.

Something something.

K-Kasen... What are you doing...?

Is this your true color...?

>>12338487
is it kill

>>12338487
>Kasen killing monsters
She might win back my respect yet.

>>12338483
where's chapter 23? can't find it on the archive.

>>12333148
the whole premise of ttgl is that you just have to believe in yourself more and stop trying to look cool

>>12338669
Here your delicious Miko Kasen

http://www.mediafire.com/download/gd89ycozwmwxwjq/Wild+and+Horned+Hermit+23%28v0.5%29.rar

>>12338842
Thank you.

>>12338842
it's like ZUN forgot that Reimu could talk to gods before on her own, casually at that, like she did with the god that gave her the metal that Kanako requested.

>>12338487
They told me gensokyou was a nice place with no bullying...

>>12338842
Man Reimu always ends up benefitting the youkai over the humans, deliberately so even.

I'm guessing the reason her predictions worked was because of her intuition that's been shown to be above even Yukari's before (TH8 stage 5)?

>>12327889
>>12328525
Remember there are also a lot of literally monstrous youkai in circulation, wanna fuck those?

>>12338940
Reimu has a terrible, TERRIBLE memory. Forgetting that she can talk to gods isn't even that much of an exaggeration.

>>12339053
Speaking of which, in >>12338485 she apparently remembered she can fly. When was the last time we saw anyone flying in a Touhou manga?

>>12339053
ZUN forgot that the SA cast even existed so it wouldn't surprise me that he forgets what he had for breakfast yesterday.

It's not just that, Reimu has done almost a 180 in personality nowadays compared to EoSD where she was super calm and cool about things. Now she looks like an anime character.

>>12339069
I guess flying is pretty tyring except for fairies that can use the power of the wing or something

>>12339071
What are you talking about? The SA cast show up all the time. Some have even been playable.

>>12339161
> The SA cast show up all the time
That's just artist-done cameos, since ZUN only writes the script for the manga, hence why there's fuck ups like how Makoto gave Momiji wolf ears and a tail.

They never get to appear anywhere with a line of dialogue, and it's just Okuu and Koishi playable for no reason, cause the focus of ZUN since UFO was that boring ass religious war bullshit with the most uninteresting characters possible.

>>12338487
Considering that she gives absoutely zero shits about fucking up the cycle or reincarnation I can't say I'm surprised.

I mean seriously, she's an oni that lies. A lying oni. Where one of the things about oni is that they HATE lying.

I consider her to be chaotic neutral through this whole thing.

>>12339183
ZUN somewhere said that the SA cast had the problem with being way to separated from the rest of Gensokyo, specially Satori, she has no reason to come out, specially given her personality.

>>12339198
Good thing Satori isn't the only character in the SA cast. Koishi is on the surface, too.

It's been like 2 years and we still don't know whatever happened to Utsuho after Kanako dropped her nuclear reactor procedure for cold fusion, a mention anywhere could help.

Where did you get that ZUN said that?

>>12339191
>is that they HATE lying.
what? no, suika just said one time that ''oni don't lie!'' when stating something fishy that I forgot.

Suika lies too remember? Her hiding herself in WaHH and denying Reimu's claim that she was an oni in disguise, as shoddy as that disguise was.

>>12339071
Another thing is that Suika said in IaMP that Reimu was too honest for her own good and nowadays she's as dishonest as they come.

>>12338483
oni time when

>>12339071
WaHH Reimu certainly feels different to other Reimus, including FS Reimu which is also currently ongoing. Not just the artstyle but it certainly does aid the image, she's less dumb and child-like in other works.

>>12339365
cliffhanger reveal

>>12339367
It's sort of like we are seeing it from Kasen's perspective, where they're all shallow childish morons to her.

>>12339183
Nah, ZUN determines every cameo but doesn't pay much attention to what they look like. He's weird like that.

Soku had Utsuho as a playable character.

Double Spoiler had the entire cast reappear as bosses.

SoPM had articles on the entire SA cast, a discussion of the underground situation and Koishi in particular, ZUN talking about Kisume, and dialogue from both Kisume and Orin.

HM had Koishi playable, dialogue from Yuugi, and cameos from a few other characters.

WaHH hasn't had Yuugi show up in-person yet, but she's still had an influence on the plot a few times. It's implied she'll show up in the finale, at least.

>>12339929
>ZUN determines every cameo
Source? He only does the written script, the artist does the rest like cameos, hence why Momiji had wolf ears and a tail in the fairies manga and not in all the other official works, because Makoto was guiding himself off fanart.
> and cameos from a few other characters.
As before, artist cameos. ZUN would never do something like showing a character in the nude like Yuugi was in the game.
>SoPM had articles on the entire SA cast
Barebones as hell, Utsuho's article was literally ''nothing is known about her except her head is empty'', then an almost copypaste off her SA profile.
> a discussion of the underground situation
Yeah just shit we already knew, Kanako fooling okuu into accepting the god, nothing else.
>but she's still had an influence on the plot a few times
Where? She doesn't even come out of the underground.

>>12339929
>Soku had Utsuho as a playable character.
She wasn't playable in story mode. She even wasn't in all of the character's story modes in Hisou. Playing in arcade mode with Utsuho feels no different from playing in any fangame.

>Double Spoiler had the entire cast reappear as bosses.
DS had all post MoF characters, doesn't count.

>SoPM had articles on the entire SA cast...
SoPM had all post MoF cast, doesn't count.

>HM had Koishi playable
She and Nitori had the least amount of

>cameos
lol

>>12339949
>ZUN would never do something like showing a character in the nude like Yuugi was in the game.
or give them huge tits for that matter.

>>12339961
>Utsuho a shit
ZUN

>>12339961
>had the least amount of
of what?

>>12339972
...of encounters in story mode.

>>12339961
Koishi in HM felt so out of place.

>>12339949
>Where? She doesn't even come out of the underground.
Yuugi's tied into the "Kasen's true identity" metaplot, and she's the whole reason Suika is in the story - Kasen went to the underground to ask Yuugi a favour, then Yuugi told Suika which led to the two of them coming to the surface again.
Also it's established that she and Marisa go drinking sometimes.

>>12339986
>Yuugi's tied into the "Kasen's true identity" metaplot
No, that's just the fact that Yuugi's an oni much like Kasen, nothing about her being included in anything.
>Also it's established that she and Marisa go drinking sometimes.
Nice try, that has nothing to do with the plot of WaHH or Yuugi appearing in WaHH at all, that's just a mention Marisa said in SoPM and SHE's the one that goes down there, not the other way around.

>>12339984
That's the point. If Koishi's there and it doesn't seem out of place, you're doing it wrong.

While the announcement that she'd be playable seemed weird, she did have an actual reason to be there. She even managed to have character development, which is impressive for someone who doesn't have a personality.

>>12339994
>What are the Big Four of the Mountain

>>12339995
>If Koishi's there and it doesn't seem out of place
She didn't seem out of place in SA since she was Satori's sister, one of the bosses.
> she did have an actual reason to be there.
Which was?
> She even managed to have character development
...What? The hell did she even do? She's still the same which by the way does not match with her SoPM description which makes her sound like a mindless retard whom people never notice or remember, which is wrong since people clearly notice her in SA and HM.

>>12340003
The 4 devas, yes, what's your point? You're really desperate to make this somehow relate to ''yuugi appearing at all'' which is not the case.

>>12340004
...Did you actually play through story mode? Koishi picked up the lost mask of hope and was affected by its power. She's probably the second-most important person in the story, behind Kokoro. What did Reimu do? Marisa? Ichirin? No one but Koishi, Kokoro and Mamizou really mattered to the plot. Miko and Byakuren mattered thematically because of their opposing means of trying to help.

>>12340450
Again, what reason was her to be there? She absolutely does not fit in a game about religious wars, hell Kokoro herself is jammed in too. Even the game mechanics is based on an aspect of the religious wars, in this case public support.

>>12340456
>She absolutely does not fit in a game about religious wars, hell Kokoro herself is jammed in too.
Vampires don't fit in a game about fog
Ghosts don't fit in a game about spring
Oni don't fit in a game about parties
Princesses don't fit in a game about night lasting forever
Angels don't fit in a game about earthquakes
Atomic birds don't fit in a game about hot springs
Buddhists don't fit in a game about UFOs
Genderbent princes don't fit in a game about spirits
Midgets don't fit in a game about weapons turning evil

>>12340487
Vampires made the fog
Ghosts stole the spring
Oni IS PARTY
Princesses froze the moon
Angel made the earthquake
Atomic birds is fucking hot and i'm not exactly sure where hot springs came into that aside.
Buddhists did a thing, I don't fucking understand the UFOs or why Nue was even there to begin with.
Genderbent princess lured the spirits in by.. something.. Listening to them? I don't know anymore.
Midget made the weapons animate.

Koishi didn't have anything to do with the popularity, religion, or even the masks aside from "hey I found a mask whats goin on over here guys". Also Nitori.

>>12340507
>Genderbent princess lured the spirits in by.. something.. Listening to them? I don't know anymore.
She was gathering divine spirits, it's similar to faith from MoF.

>>12338842
So she's actually making money now then?

>>12339071
>>12339367
>>12339406
she's bipolar.

actually, everyone in gensokyo seems to be that way too.

>>12338842
So, is there a link for chapter 22?

I totally know where it is, I just want to make sure you guys know it too.

>>12340866

http://archive.foolz.us/jp/search/text/wild%20and%20horned%20hermit/

>>12340811
This is forbidden!

>>12329738
Sanae cannot be a 100% human if she is a descendant of Suwako, a pure faith being.

A part of her is faith.

>>12339367
We just see Reimu from different angles, since we usually see Reimu working at the shrine in WaHH will see how her greedy personality more.

In the fairy manga instead she doesn't have that much personality and she looks angry all the time because we're seeing her with the prospective of a fairy and we're not seeing the full daily routine.

In FS we see Reimu interacting more with the Human Village and doing her detective miko jobs, so she can't be that grumpy and has to show some charisma.

During the game runs she's more smuggy and dickish since she's confronting opponents anyway, ironically these attracts said opponents most of the time since they're youkai.

>>12339228
He said that in an interview, it's among the translated ones in the wiki (it's a mess and I won't hunt for it sorry).

>>12341778
It's in Symposium of Post Mysticism
>The treatment of the Subterranean Animism characters is a bit poor. However, it is only because there is so little contact with them, living underground in some sort of socially-imposed exile. Even if Satori were to have joined, it would've made the story weird, and Okuu wouldn't have made it too interesting either.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Afterword_by_ZUN

>>12340507
Koishi is fucking Koishi, I mean, she's Koishi, she could be behind you for no damn reason right now. If ZUN wanted she could slap her in every damn game/manga and make sense because she's Koishi, she doesn't need a reason, she's fucking crazy. Also plotwise she even found the main plot object that started all and since it had power she used it.

How is Kokoro, the main character that started the whole ruckus, forced in the game? The religious "war" wouldn't happen without her.

>>12340507

I think that what he means is that all the games follow the same plot development.

Incident happens (pre-game) ->
investigate/wander around blindly (early stages) ->
the reveal (mid-stages) ->
the boss fight (end game)

The who-dunnit and the why-dunnit aren't a big deal at the beginning, just beat up everyone you meet.

>>12341774
>since she's confronting opponents anyway
yet right afterwards she's at her friendliest: >>12340811

she's also way calmer in eosd and ssib than any other appearance

>>12344843
In SoPM Miko made it sound like Reimu's aggressiveness towards youkai is apparently a facade.

>>12340892
>http://archive.foolz.us/jp/search/text/wild%20and%20horned%20hermit/
thank you spiderman!

>>12327889
You would still need human cattle for consumption.

>>12339949
>>12339961
>>12339994
>>12340007
>>12340456
All seem to ignore the fact that this was only brought up because somebody was bitching about ZUN having "forgotten" the SA characters. Clearly this isn't the case, even if you all personally want them to appear more in more relevant roles. You don't get to say they don't ever appear, then when given a bunch of examples say those don't count because of reasons.

>>12345242
This is pretty obvious over the course of the whole series, really. It isn't a facade as much as it's that she feels as though she has to keep the peace by being antagonistic towards youkai, because youkai cause trouble and stopping them is her duty. Reimu is basically tsundere.

>>12347583
Are you stupid? No one thinks SA cast is literally forgotten by ZUN. They just have SIGNIFICANTLY less appearances and materials than characters from any other game.
No proper appearance in manga, were not playable in a single shooting game nor do they reappear as boss characters, no lead role in SoPM and less informative articles, lack of story mode or less encounters in fighting games, not a single SA character in IS.
It's called discrimination.

>>12348433
Calm yo shit down m8, what about Shiki and Komachi?

>>12348441
Komachi is a recurring WaHH character and had her own story mode, twice (PoFV, SWR). Aya who's from their game of origin is one of the most recurring characters and even has games of her own.

>>12348451
What about the Eientei crew?

>>12348433
Maybe it's because the underground techincally isn't part of Gensokyo, and the entire premise of SA was that the underground is a place nobody wants to go to or interact with since it's a containment zone for hated people.

In a sense the underground is like /jp/

>>12348539
A /jp/ place in an already /jp/ place?

>>12348482
Are you fucking serious mate.

They have 3 whole fucking books (SSiB, Inaba, CiLR) and 3 story modes.

>>12348578
Oh right I forget, sorry.

>>12348589
And they also had a minor appearance in fairy manga.

>>12348589
whoa getting too lewd there reimu.

>>12320678
Eop thread :^)

>>12348539
>underground is a place nobody wants to go to
If the mountain won't come to Muhammad then Muhammad must go to the mountain.
Orin and Koishi visits aboveground all the time. We saw Okuu there as well. And I don't see a reason why wouldn't Parsee be allowed to leave underground. But nope, ZUN doesn't want to give them a chance. The only hope left is that we will see Yuugi in the ending of WaHH.

>>12348649

Parsee went above ground as a spectator.

>>12348655
Oh yeah, I remember that...
HM came out and there were lots of screenshots and one of the stages had Satori and Parsee aboveground and I was like "haha, so they do leave underground sometimes" and I thought it was preparation for their appearance in official manga and then I played the game and it turned they were tanukis and I was very very upset.

>>12348721

Oh, it was a tanuki? Heh, I never really took a shining to the fighting games, so I only played them to the bare minimum as lip service.

I should check it out again now that it's been translated.

>>12348721
pretty sure the fact that the fact that the audience turns into tanukis isn't specific to the stage where the SA characters are, after all, we've seen even Yuugi go aboveground who were forbidden to do so but apparently that's not the case anymore.

>>12340811
Apparently neither the kappa or the tengu had ever been invited to a party before according to Nitori.

>>12349714
That's why you need to play the games before talking. Most of youkai are forbidden to enter the village but this was an exeption since everyone was basically on drugs and didn't notice. Source is Ichirin's arc. Also she can't enter enter apparently.

Finally, why would the grinch ever want to go outside? Parsee is condamned like Satori. Kinda samw thing for Yamame since she'd spread shit everywhere

>>12349714
Yuugi is cheerful and came for party apam like Suika. Satori and Parsee are kike the feel meme (sorry for the comparison)

>>12349745
>>12349750
Damn phones

>>12349745
>Most of youkai are forbidden to enter the village
bullshit, youkai enter the village all the time, like fucking Yuuka, it's only Akyuu and Keine who are deathly paranoid about them (sans Yukari for Akyuu since the PMiSS manga showed she is free to manipulate whatever Akyuu writes)
>since everyone was basically on drugs and didn't notice.
Nice assumption, the WaHH manga revealed that what the people were there for was just to watch people fight rather than religious faith WHICH IS what the characters in HM thought they were there for.

Yuugi even remarked how she was surprised that there wasn't a party in the surface already like usual in Marisa's ending.

Also Orin and Okuu have been shown above ground in SA's endings and the fairies manga.

>>12349769
Not denying the two pets, Orin is even in WaHH 18.

The fact some youkai enter thr village bugs me. Why is Ichirin forbidden to enter then? Is it because Unzan is monster like?

>>12349788
>Why is Ichirin forbidden to enter then?
is she really? I don't recall, is it in the ending?

>>12349821
After the Mamizou fight dialogue and Mami says to not worry this time

>>12349821
After the Mamizou fight dialogue and Mami says to not worry this time. I've read the first translations though, maybe the dialogue is different

>>12350016
>>12350026
all it says is that she's been ''instructed'' not to enter the village ''TOO OFTEN''.

>>12349745
>Kinda same thing for Yamame since she'd spread shit everywhere
So Yamame can't leave underground because she spreads non-lethal diseases, but for Medicine it's OK to live aboveground and kill everyone around with her deadly poison.
Guys, it's racism.

>>12350028
Look like even in Gensokyo people hate muslims.

>>12350070
or it could be byakuren fear-mongering since she's her leader and as much she tries to hide it she hates the fuck out of humans.

>>12350028
Sorry, the too often part wasn't there yet back then

>>12350047
Yamame knows she's hated so she doesn't go out often, she still does though. Also from symposium it looks she has a comfy personality.

Medicine is a special case, she's a blank disk, you can't really be racist to her or she will grow fucked up

>>12348433
>>12348649
>>12348721
All this sounds like is that you're incredibly buttmad that your favorite group doesn't get more facetime, regardless of it ever making sense. Your objections aren't even criticisms, it's just whining.

>>12350073
This is likely the case. It's Ichirin being instructed by Byakuren to not stay by the human village too often, and Mamizou is telling her not to worry about it because it literally doesn't matter.

>>12350877
>All this sounds like is that you're incredibly buttmad that your favorite group doesn't get more facetime,
So you're just gonna ignore the posts and insult, typical.
>Your objections aren't even criticisms,
Oh look, you got offended even though all that was being done is pointing out something.

>>12350896
No, I'm saying the objections you made are only personal statements that you want them to appear more often than they do, and aren't any sort of actual criticism worth talking about. So what if they have fewer appearances? So what if in their appearances they might be given slightly less content than some others? Is there some sort of force demanding that there be an even distribution of content between every game's cast?

I'm really not the one who's "offended" here. Talk about projection, man.

>>12351008
>I'm saying the objections
Stop.

What objections?
>and aren't any sort of actual criticism
What criticism?
>Is there some sort of force demanding that there be an even distribution of content between every game's cast?
Who said that?

See? You're the one seeing offenses where there aren't any, a guy claimed SA cast wasn't ignored, he got rebutted, that's all.

>>12351012
Objections, rebuttals, what have you. "ZUN forgot that the SA cast even existed", someone responds with "What are you talking about? The SA cast show up all the time" because they do, someone responds by changing the standard to "they never get to appear anywhere with a line of dialogue", etc. Examples of SA appearances were given, and you (assuming you) say they don't count for poor reasons such as "well everyone else appeared too" and "didn't have as much content". At this point it's been established that the SA characters do show up here and there, and that there's a reason it's difficult to toss in SA characters as much as others from a settings perspective. How can you even say there was a rebuttal?

>Who said that?
It seems that you think like this, considering your responses suggest that you think they should be given more screentime for no particular reason. If you don't think this is the case, please elaborate.

>>12351347
>Objections, rebuttals, what have you.
It's all to a claim of a guy who said the SA cast wasn't ignored when it is.
> because they do
They don't, they get cameos at best and 2 extremely unfitting playable appearances (Koishi could have been replaced by anyone else especially) and Okuu didn't even get her own story mode.
see>>12348433

This isn't about ''literally being forgotten'' you dunce.
>How can you even say there was a rebuttal?
Where's the rebuttal to >>12348433? Again, this isn't about being literally forgotten, it's about having the short end of the stick BY FAR compared to every other game's cast, hell even with the obligatory SoPM appearance they still get half-assed articles, look at Utsuho's and tell me that wasn't lazy, all it says is that ''nothing is known about her except she's dumb'', then an almost-copypaste of her SA profile for the abilities section.

> considering your responses suggest
See? You're looking for offenses, obviously we want them to be supported more, but nowhere is it stated that it's wrong or that he should include them more.

>>12351365
You say the SA cast is ignored and then go on to say they get cameos and playable appearances. I never said anything about "literally forgetting they exist", it's clear they meant they're significantly underrepresented. What's odd is that you're being given examples of them showing up, but rejecting them by saying they're unsatisfactory by some arbitrary standard. Well that's a fine opinion to hold, but it doesn't mean they're being ignored. "Not getting many major roles" does not mean "ignored", either.

I would also defend Utsuho's SoPM article somewhat, as it establishes more about what exactly the Yatagarasu is, and how divine spirits can be housed. It establishes that Utsuho is a living shrine. The parts about Utsuho herself are fairly half-hearted, but this hasn't affected the level of detail put into the other underground characters.

They're a different sect of characters that were written to be quite secluded from the beginning, it would be more weird if they did start showing up in major roles without a reason to. It's reasonable to think Yuugi might show up more in WaHH, but to write in other characters they'd need their own reasons. Like if you do think Koishi's HM appearance could have been anyone else and it was a poor reason for her to be in the game, what do you even want here? For ZUN to start writing stories that go out of the way to bring in the underground youkai?

>and then go on to say they get cameos and playable appearances
It's not like I set a date, and as I said Koishi's role could have been fulfilled by any other character, she felt shoehorned in.
>but rejecting them by saying they're unsatisfactory by some arbitrary standard
How the fuck is having zero dialogue and being just cameos ''arbitrary''?
>mean they're being ignored.
Course it does, ZUN even admitted that they don't fit and would be boring additions to SoPM in that very book's afterword.
>I would also defend Utsuho's SoPM article somewhat
Dude it says nothing that we didn't know and in fact goes on to say that nothing is known about her.
>Like if you do think Koishi's HM appearance could have been anyone else and it was a poor reason for her to be in the game, what do you even want here? For ZUN to start writing stories that go out of the way to bring in the underground youkai?
Again, nobody is saying ZUN MUST add them or that he's doing something wrong, for the 4th time, stop looking offenses in everything.

Nice job sidestepping your original post of accusing others of whining, you're really ignoring how the SA cast gets the short end of the stick and only book appearances they get are obligatory ones (which are half-assed too as well as inaccurate, Koishi's article says she is never noticed or remembered yet SA and HM prove she talks and fights as clear to everyone as anyone else sans Ichirin for some reason).

>>12351746
koishi is literally the reason that hopeless masquerade happens at all

How can you claim that Koishis apperance in HM was shoehorned when she was basicly the entire reason why that incident started?

Besides Kokoro she is pretty much the most important character in the game.

And it's not even like you could justify it by saying "oh but anyone could have found the mask", because only someone like Koishi would be unwilling to return it

>>12351759
you mean kokoro.

>>12351763
>because only someone like Koishi would be unwilling to return it
The hell are you on? Anyone who knows about Kourindou would have sold it there.

>>12351764
without koishi, kokoro would have just peacefully sat around doing nothing rather than starting an incident

sure, anybody could have stolen that mask, but anybody could have stolen gensokyo's spring, too, doesn't mean yuyuko's not relevant to PCB

>>12351772
>but anybody could have stolen gensokyo's spring, too
no? you needed the demon tree for that, and guess who's the only one near it.

>>12351775
you don't need the tree for that, the tree is just the best place to redeem your spring tokens

even alice picks up spring just because

>>12351770
Rinnosuke wouldn't give a damn about that mask since it's not from the outside world

>>12351778
I think he has a weak spot for historical relics.

>>12351777
Everyone, including the heroine, is picking up spring because of the tree, it's like how everyone was able to collect UFOs (or at least objects that in the heroines' eyes looked like UFOs) in UFO. Otherwise people would just steal spring all the time.
>>12351778
his items include antique tea cups actually, sakuya fixes one in one chapter.

>>12351746
>Koishi's role could have been fulfilled by any other character, she felt shoehorned in
>nobody is saying ZUN MUST add them or that he's doing something wrong
If there's no reason for an undergrounder to show up in the current stories, and when one shows up without a "good reason" you say that doesn't count, then you're stuck in a situation where they can never show up without ZUN explicitly fabricating a story for them to show up in, while labeling everything else as "ignoring" them.
>How the fuck is having zero dialogue and being just cameos ''arbitrary''?
Because they've shown up and have content? It just seems like you keep stepping backwards and drawing lines until you get to a point where you can say it isn't good enough. Cameos aren't enough? We'll put them in games and give them articles. Not good enough? We'll make them playable and give them dialogue. But that isn't good enough either. It is whining.
>ZUN even admitted that they don't fit and would be boring additions to SoPM
They didn't fit in the main portion of SoPM both because they're reclusive and they didn't match the formal discussion setting of the symposium. It would have been odd in setting and in writing.
>Dude it says nothing that we didn't know
We had few details about the Yatagarasu and its connection to Utsuho previously, so that's false. But it is lacking. Yet as I said, the other articles are well-detailed; it isn't as if they're selected out (besides the inflated danger and unknowns).

>>12352070
Please stop. Do you know what "less" means? I'll try to explain using basic examples. 2 is less than 5. It's not 0, but it's still less than fucking 5. Seriously, they teach you that in the first grade if not in kindergarten.
I'll repeat myself again. Yes, Koishi appeared in HM, no one denies that. Yet UFO had 2 characters and TD had 3. Yes they all were in SoPM yet no one got a major role like bosses of UFO, TD and MoF. They were never playable in main shooting games, they never reappeared as bosses, they have 0 lines of dialogue in manga.
It doesn't matter if there was a reason for that or not. It doesn't matter if they could fit or not. It's just undeniable fact that SA cast has less appearances than any other cast.

>>12351796
I think the spring becoming something physical was thanks to Yukari's help, the tree did nothing but become a mess if after blooming, that thing it just a sealed time bomb

>without ZUN explicitly fabricating a story for them to show up in
You mean like how he does for everyone else? He can perfectly make them fit, it's not like anyone gives a shit but him, people obviously could see Satori or Okuu talking about the underground incident much like the 3 religious heads talked about theirs.
>Because they've shown up and have content?
Cameos?
>We'll put them in games and give them articles
Yet again you ignore how their articles are half-assed (nothing is lazier than ''nothing is known about her'') and their appearances in games are pointless.
>They didn't fit in the main portion of SoPM both because they're reclusive and they didn't match the formal discussion setting of the symposium. It would have been odd in setting and in writing.
That's a load of bullshit, the discussion of the symposium was the incidents they belonged in, much like Okuu. Orin got an article too and she sounded like everyone else.
>We had few details about the Yatagarasu and its connection to Utsuho previously
Her SA profile talks more about her than her SoPM profile.
>Yet as I said, the other articles are well-detailed
As if? They don't even match the character at all, see: Koishi.

>>12351778
But he once hold the possession of the Jeweled Pagoda. In which Nazrin actually went to his store and bought it.

SA is just like PoFV that barely have anything to do with the ongoing plotlines and its casts doesn't have much relevance beyond their initial appearance. PoFV is basically just a transition between previous arc (Moon arc) and the next (Religion arc) that has nothing to do with both. Komachi only made few insignificant appearances in fighting games and WaHH while Yuuka, Medicine and Eiki are never mentioned again beyond PoFV, BAiJR and side danmaku games. They stop being relevant since then and we still don't know much about them.
Aya doesn't count since she revealed to be part of MoF crowd.

SA at least is still part of Religion arc though only minor relevance. Perhaps it was only made to expand Gensokyo by introducing underground, old hell and several youkai there, Kanako's plan of modernization, and another transition between the introduction to the main events of Religion arc that ZUN decided to fully focus on.
Even then he still made Koishi to be the main culprit behind HM, though you argued that it was forced, she's probably the only person that will keep the mask because she lacks emotion, too.

SA casts isn't the only 2hus that suffers from lack of attention, including Tenshi and Iku that you probably forgot, too since you're too much of SAfags. There are reasons for it.
Religionhus, aside from Byakuren, Miko and Mamizou also didn't get that much of attention, either, especially buddhists and Religion arc already ended.

>>12354186
>BAiJR

I mean PMiSS

>>12354186
> that barely have anything to do with the ongoing plotlines and its casts doesn't have much relevance beyond their initial appearance
You can't be fucking serious, Aya has 2 games of her own, Komachi has two story modes and is a recurring WaHH character.
>Aya doesn't count since she revealed to be part of MoF crowd.
How the fuck does she not count? It's game cast we're talking about, and PoFV is her game of origin, man you're looking for excuses now.
>SA at least is still part of Religion arc
No it isn't, like, at all. Nothing about it is ever mentioned sans that one time where Kanako wanted to switch to cold fusion yet it's not like they even mention the SA cast or what happened to Utsuho after the change.
>she's probably the only person that will keep the mask because she lacks emotion, too.
That doesn't make any sense, anyone who finds a mask would do something like keep it (especially Marisa) or sell it somewhere.
>isn't the only 2hus that suffers from lack of attention
Who said that? Point is SA get the short end of the stick compared to other mainline games.
>There are reasons for it.
Who said there wasn't? Are you again thinking that people are criticizing ZUN for it? Stop looking for offenses in everything already, people are just pointing out something.
>Religionhus, aside from Byakuren, Miko and Mamizou also didn't get that much of attention, either,
Dude their games are the plotline of the series since UFO, including the books and HM.

>>12354186
>Aya doesn't count since she revealed to be part of MoF crowd.
might as well not count Cirno as an EoSD character because her ''crowd'' is in Fairy Wars, dipshit, that's completely irrelevant.

>>12354227
Hell, if anything, she has a much more minor role in MoF than in PoFV, too, since in MoF she's just a stage 4 boss who cares so little about her species handling the situation she tells Reimu to do it instead, in PoFV is not only her first game appearance but she's actually playable.

She also went on to have her own game and book before MoF, too.

>>12354219
Why do you have to identify a game as one faction? PoFV casts isn't united as one faction like MoF, IN or UFO are.

Your arguments seem to imply that you despise the fact that certain faction didn't get much relevance in the main plot, or any plot for that matter. The only SA characters that had a chance to be relevant to the main storyline are narrowed down to 4 residence of old hell (Utsuho, Satori, Rin and Koishi) while the rest are fodders that just happen to live underground whom you don't have to identify as part of the faction just because they're in one game and in one place, and there's no reason to associate Aya with PoFV, either.

So then, how are those old hell residence different than heaven residence and PoFV-only casts that more or less have as much as relevance and appearance? or underground fodders that's the same as fodders from other games other than where they live? Only few of them got special spotlight like Cirno, and you don't have to associate them with certain factions, too.

You should just think that there are 2hus that are relevant and are not. ZUN doesn't view them from the game they're on.
The characters you identify as "SA characters" are at the short end of the stick just like several characters.
Don't think that ZUN specifically abandoned "certain game" and characters in it, while treating other "games" better.

>>12353359
Can you please backpedal more. Just like moving the goalposts of what you consider "ignored", you're moving backwards from what was said to begin with to something so absurdly simple it isn't worth arguing. Great job with the petty insults though.

>>12353610
>You mean like how he does for everyone else? He can perfectly make them fit, it's not like anyone gives a shit but him, people obviously could see Satori or Okuu talking about the underground incident much like the 3 religious heads talked about theirs.
He doesn't write a story in order to include specific characters out of a need for balancing appearances.
The point is that unless he specifically gives primary story roles to those characters, you'll continue to claim they're being ignored just because it doesn't revolve around them. Saying "well he *could* make up a story for them to fit in" is just demanding the writer do what you want, or else "baww SA characters are forgotten". Somebody above complained they weren't in ISC, but if they were, then they would still ignore it because "everyone was in it". There is no pleasing you guys.

>As if? They don't even match the character at all, see: Koishi.
It's as if all you can do is cherry-pick.

>>12320678

>>12356511
>you're moving backwards from what was said to begin with
From this: >>12348433?
>No one thinks SA cast is literally forgotten by ZUN. They just have SIGNIFICANTLY less appearances
It's the same fucking thing.

And now link the post where someone says SA cast didn't get any appearances aside from their original game.

Also,

>>12356511
>Somebody above complained they weren't in ISC, but if they were, then they would still ignore it because "everyone was in it"
And if they were in manga as well no one would complain at all, you fucking moron. Because they would get the same treatment as everyone else.