/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>12314683
If it was, would have gotten a good anime.

We didn't get a Bernkastel figure nor did the anime DVDs sell. The artwork to make the moms "sexy" ultimately ended in awkward failure. It didn't have quite the impact Higurashi did. But it was well-loved everywhere else in the world, evidently.

>>12314698
I would've liked a Bern fig.
But yeah, even the PS3 games didn't sell.
That's why they never finished it for the Vita.

>>12314702
>>12314698
It didn't live up to Higurashi.

Almost no one cares about it in Japan anymore. The EGS ratings for Episode 8 were really bad for a plot VN (probably because it was bad). The only ones who circlejerk about it over are people from places like reddit, /a/ and /jp/.

Their only hope is for an Umineko character to appear in a fighting game and then that cameo will lead to people reading it but I doubt there would be another Ougon Muso Cross

>>12314706
Obviously. Who'd want to watch/read a story where the majority of characters are over the age of 18 and aren't killing people while being moe as fuck?

It had a better story line and was more popular everywhere else in the world. It's those fucking idiot casuals in Japan that complained about it being "too hard". That's why we never got "Land" of the Golden Witch.

>>12314706
>It didn't get a decent anime like Higurashi, so far less people knew about it, since only neets read VNs

>>12314724
>>12314722
Higurashi doesn't have Ange. I rest my case.

>>12314741

Thank god for that.

Higurashi also didn't suddenly stop moving forwards with it's plot five episodes in and start doing meta discussion how the mystery genre works. It actually went and gave answers to each and every question, and it gave every single character decent motives.

>>12314724
Higurashi's anime isn't good either
I mean, it's better than Umineko's, but that's not hard. It's still a mess though.

>>12314964
I think it was way better. The story of Higurashi better translates to anime.

>>12314994
Like I said, way better still doesn't mean good. It missed out so much detail in season 1 that they added a whole extra arc to get the details back in

What VNs are popular in Japan?

>>12315068
http://www.getchu.com/ranking/index.html?rank_id=2

http://erogamescape.dyndns.org/~ap2/ero/toukei_kaiseki/toukei_median.php?data_suu=20&year=1900&month=1&kihon_mode=title&mode1=tokuten&erogame=null&coterie=null&average=t

http://erogematomeblog.hatenablog.com/entry/20130131/1359640493

>>12315090
pls don't spoonfeed

I would actually like Umineko better if that WHORE Ange wasn't there.

Higurashi's cast is great, all likable and the story isn't some pretentious garbage that's convoluted for the sake of being convoluted.

>>12315129
Please stop being obsessive and retarded

>>12315106
Why wouldn't I? Umineko fags need to get a sense of reality that no one cares about their pitiful excuse of a doujin game.

>>12315134
With most of those titles on top, it's gonna be difficult to make them butthurt about it.

It was even popular in west?

Popularity isn't the same as quality. In fact, when something is too good (as in Umineko's case), it can hurt it's own popularity because people are more used to bland commercial pablum.

>>12315466
You don't need to fool yourself.

>>12315431
Umineko was never popular in any country.

Ange is a fucking slut.

>>12315431
You bet your ass it was.
Were you not here for 2009?

>>12315551
It was never as popular as Higurashi. Even Higurash isn't that popular.

It's kind of like Guilty Gear. It's popular among a small group of people but never even close to Street Fighter's popularity.

>>12315562
Well of course Higurashi reached its peak around 2007/08. But EVERYONE was talking about Umineko during the summer of '09. Of course it was overshadowed by Haruhi S2, but the VN did get a considerate amount of attention because the first 4 episodes were fully translated at that time.

>>12315580
I know what you're saying, but Umineko just didn't have much mainstream appeal. It's still my favorite VN but the premise isn't the most likable out there
.
How do I recommend this to someone?" A bunch of rich people go to an island for a meeting and then they die and now it's a murder mystery." Compared to other anime like Haruhi it's not as appealing

>>12315090
>ranking mixes porn and no porn games
Pff, haha, disregarded.

>>12315466
Exactly this. The average japanese VN reader is used to moeshit ero garbage.

The moment he gets an actual good story with no porn or cute minors he loses interest.

>>12315594
>A bunch of rich people go to an island for a meeting and then they die and now it's a murder mystery.
That is what interested me in Umineko

Umineko should have stopped at EP4. Then it would be perfect.

>>12316639
--------> /pony/

>>12316645
Do you somehow hate ponies?

I think it's sort of inaccurate to say that it was unpopular-- I mean, it did get a PS3 Adaptation, several manga serializations, and it was pretty well followed (in part or mostly because the huge success of Higurashi).

Umineko just doesn't have the same kind of audience appeal-- the anime segment is much more mainstream than the visual novel segment and sales of animated series vs sales of VNs really capture the huge disparity.

Umineko is a clusterfuck to try to adapt to Anime because it is a story probably best told in the visual novel format, largely due to the "importance" of wording, the contrasts between meta/board, and the pacing of the action. It was a story that fully used the VN medium to do what VNs are uniquely good at. So it doesn't translate well into mainstream. Particularly due to the importance of thought process/descriptions which are entirely lost outside that medium.

The character polls all had a lot of feedback.

Unfortunately, I think that it went a very different direction from Higurashi and, while I know I'll get snark for it, it was a bit more mature about what topics it examined, the genre it was in, and the kinds of conclusions it allows.

Higurashi allows for a spectacular defiance of "destiny" and is a future-focused story about hope and seizing it.
Umineko doesn't. It's a story about things that already happened, that cannot be changed due to their historical nature, and that can only be interpreted or understood differently to impart meaning to the present.

So while it was popular, it was never going to have that same kind of appeal due to both medium and content.

>>12316655
>Umineko is a clusterfuck to try to adapt to Anime because it is a story probably best told in the visual novel format
No, because they cut too much. They should not be so greedy and split it into two seasons (52 episodes) instead of 26.

>>12316649
>>12316639
GOD take this shit out of here

>>12316670
I'm sorry.

>>12316666
It would've been horribly boring and the pacing would have gone to shit. Would you want to watch several animated characters talk about how much they enjoy drinking tea same thing over and over again? That doesn't add to a proper adaption. They could have done the adaption in 26 episodes, but they took liberties from the information.

>>12315466
Good joke, friend.

I think they liked it until Ep7 and 8 what is understandable. Hating the whole thing because of that is still stupid though.

I just hope Ryus next WTC will be better again. Too bad it will probably get raped by DEEN again. Just imaging how they are going to fuck up the awesome space battles.

>>12316595
Maybe because Japan doesn't make stupid distinctions.

Would you any uminekos?

>>12316898
As long as it's not that BITCH Ange.

>>12316716
Yeah it would be boring for the characters to drink tea and talk but those scenes are necessary. If you take out all the mundane stuff the climax of each arc would have less impact. It's kind of like Michael Bay movies were the explosions really don't impress anymore.

Without the characters being fleshed out and interacting, they wouldn't be likable. We have to see the cousins and the siblings doing the usual before the storm. The calm before the storm is just as important. The build-up to the "magical" scenes were some of the best parts.

>>12317077

There's that, and there's just a lot of other aspects that make it very difficult to portray with solely visuals.

For example the information on the crime scenes. A good example is episode one where we get the crime scene described, but it is clearly from a different point of view, or basically Testimony (so that Battler never sees the body). Using narrative, it's obfuscated as to what is actually there, vs what is being portrayed to be there.

But if you used that same trick and did it with anime, you either show a body (which doesn't actually exist) or you make it really obvious what the trick is.

There's tons of other reasons, but just executing it visually is insanely hard and the format of the story and the way it is constructed-- it's just a mess to make it visual and it was doomed from the start.

>>12316898

In order of "marriage material 10/10 wud have children with and introduce to parents" to "hatefuck like the disgusting slut she is and leave her semen-stained and with the hotel bill,"

Rosa
Natsuhi
Virgilia
Ange
Jessica
Eva (the baseline from which all others are measured)
Gapp
Eva Beatrice
The Furniture (All siestas, stakes, etc)
Erika
Beatrice

I am fairly indifferent to everyone else

>>12317550
>hatefuck like the disgusting slut she is and leave her semen-stained and with the hotel bill
Sounds like a lot of fun

>>12317550
So at what point on that list does it become hate fuck?

Ange is such a bitch. Umineko would be better without her

>>12317550
Best real characters:
Battler
Featherine
Amakusa


Best fake characters:
Lambdadelta
Erika
Rosa
Maria
Beatrice
Will
Kinzo
Kyrie

>>12316898
Would gladly get raped by :
Lambdadelta
Bern
Erika
Virgilia
Eva-Beatrice
The goatmen

Would fuck hard :
Ange
Eva
Rosa
Natsuhi
Siesta 410
All stakes
Maria
Zepar and Furfur

>>12317600
I'm not sure Zepar and Furfur even have genitals
Also, you gotta rape Erika for maximum pleasure, not the other way around

>>12317550
But you listed the same person both the first and the last.

>>12314706
>Higurashi
>like Umineko but with 20 hours of more filler

No

>>12317614
Higurashi had a better story and characters. Still not saying much but at least it's better than Umineko.

Also Higurashi doesn't have Ange. Makes it way better.

>>12317619
Please don't be under the illusion that your opinion is worth shit when you've shown us time and time again that you're completely retarded

>>12317619
>better characters and story

Not even close,especially for the characters.

>>12317624
Even if we forget the Ange thing, Higurashi still had a more cohesive and entertaining story. Overall it's just more memorable.

Ryukishi just tried so hard with Umineko but didn't deliver in terms of writing.

>>12317634
You can't post nothing but subjective points and act like it's objective in any way

>>12317628
Higurashi's characters are infinitely more likable than Umineko's. Everyone in the main cast of Higurashi got a pretty good arc.

In Umineko, Hideyoshi, Rudolf. Kumasawa, Genji, Gohda, the love twins, didn't get an arc and had barely any character development.

>>12317628
What people seem to like the most about Higurashi was that the story had a conclusion that they liked. This isn't to say that the characters are complete shit, but they definitely lacked something compared to the characters in Umi.

Of course than there are the retarded people who hopped on the Higu train for the fanservice and lolicon that just pretend that it's a derivative work of art without having actually read the damn thing just so they can fit in with everyone else.

Anon is probably the latter sort of person, especially given his autistic Umineko opinion.

>>12317637
Higurashi being more cohesive and entertaining is pretty much a fact. Let's be honest here.

Just because Umineko throws all these pretentious concepts at us trying to be intellectual and meaningful, it was all just for a cliche moral that wasn't worth the build up. Also, more than half the characters and events are just fake anyway.

Battler > Keiichi
but
Keiichi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ange

>>12317640
>Implying the majority of Umineko's characters are supposed to be likeable
>Not getting WHY certain characters didn't get anywhere near as much development as others (aside from Gohda whose storyline was cut)

>>12317640
Umineko had way more characters, of course it was never going to go into as much detail for every single one of them.
They still all got plenty of characterisation. And the love twins didn't need any anyway, because they're just a part of Yasu's characterisation

>>12317646
It really takes a special someone to shitpost so much for so long

>>12317641
"conclusion they liked"

So it's a bad thing to have a likable conclusion and likable characters? Should everything be pseudo-intellectual and preachy like Umineko?


"they lacked something compared to characters in Umi"

What did they lack? The only thing Umineko characters had more was the bullshit monologues about truth and magic.

"fanservice and lolicon"

Which Umineko also has?


"autistic"

The most overused buzzword that lost its meaning on 4chan. Saying it doesn't make you intelligent.

>>12317608
But I want her to bully my penis :
http://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=888930

>>12317653
>>12317650
Then tell me where Gohda's arc is. Tell me when Kumasawa got character development. Where's Hideyoshi's detailed backstory and motivation? A lot of the characters were barely even characters

>>12317657
Whilst I won't deny that could be fun, personally I'd rather my penis bully her

>>12317665
I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a retard who still doesn't get that Umineko wasn't all a part of Ange's imagination

>>12317671
As expected, didn't answer the question and went back to name-calling like a 2nd grader.

>>12317575

Top to bottom, Anon-kun. Everyone above Eva is marriage material to varying degrees, everyone below her is hatefuck material to varying degrees. I thought I made that pretty apparent.

>>12317655
>So it's a bad thing to have a likable conclusion and likable characters?
No, and not once did I ever say that.

>Which Umineko also has?
Point me in the direction of the Umineko arc that was focused entirely around everyone going to a resort pool and Battler trying to hide his dick from everyone.

>>12317655
Umineko's characters are underdeveloped for one very good reason. All of the games are, in universe, pieces of writing that were written by people in universe. You've probably never considered this even once, but when you write about someone who exists in your world that you don't really know personally, there is only so much you can write about them.

Yasu does not know the members of the Ushiromiya family all that well. The ones that she knows the most about are the ones that she personally interacted with, which is why there is always so much focus on the cousins, on Natsuhi, on the servants, etc. She is not literally them, they are not characters she is creating in a story. She is writing about people she is not familiar with.

Even when it comes to the other games it's more or less the same deal. Even if Battler had all his memories he can't possibly know everything about his family members. Even in your fucked up fantasy where everything is in Ange's head, this still applies.

You're definitely going to see this as a cop out on Ryukishi's part, but if you sat and actually thought about the themes of the story this lack of detail fits just fine.

>>12317686
Well then what about Eva? Marry her, then hatefuck and divorce?

>>12317694

I don't particularly feel inclined to marry her, but I don't feel particularly inclined to hatefuck her.

That's what a baseline is.

>>12317688
Battler being surrounded by asses and tits, Battler being naked and getting dominated by Beatrice, Gaap, all the little girls, lesbian shit, there is fanservice and lolis in Umineko too. Don't know why this upsets you.

Higurashi has a pool episode but it was at least amusing. Higurashi's fanservice isn't boring/forced like Umineko's.

>if you sat and actually though about the themes of the story

That doesn't make underdeveloped characters okay. When you have a cast with great characters like Eva, George, Kyrie, Battler, who are very fleshed out. You can't just have some people in those group that are undeveloped. The end result is like the author forgot/didn't plan the story correctly.

Also, Umineko's themes are garbage anyway. Truth is your truth. Deceive yourself to be happy. All the chessboard intellectual talk was all bullshit trying to be deep.

>>12317640
>complaining that Umineko's minor characters didn't get as much characterisation as Higurashi's major characters
You can't be this stupid

>>12317715
Some major characters in Umineko aren't well developed.

If the writer was going to make the main cast bigger, then he should have been ready to flesh out those characters too.

>>12317726
>Some major characters in Umineko aren't well developed.
Like who? None of the characters you listed further up the page are major characters. And they still get quite a bit of characterisation anyway.

>>12317731
Rudolf, Hideyoshi, Gohda, Genji, Kumasawa, Amakusa.

>>12317713
I'm not sure how you interpreted my post as saying that Umineko has no fanservice whatsoever. And I'm not sure how you're so misguided as to think that Higurashi's fanservice isn't one of the most forced things about it.

You're consistently looking at Umineko like Ryukishi is the writer, like he was for Higurashi. But the way he designed the story, he really isn't, even though he's the one that wrote the story. This is why in all his interviews about Umineko he always begins his thoughts with something along the lines of "I think this is why this happened like this". You're still treating them like fictional characters and not like people that exist in a fictional world. That's the very basis of Umineko's characters.

>>12317739
I'll say it again - none of those are major characters.
Gohda, Hideyoshi and Amakusa are practically irrelevant, the other 3 are a little more important, but still have nowhere near as much importance as many other characters.

>>12317742
Umineko and Higurashi have lolicon and fanservice so complaining about that is pointless.

Higurashi just has a better written story and characters. On top of that Higurashi is a lot more fun than Umineko. Honestly, Umi would be so much better without Ange. Ange just ruined everything.

>>12317752
I'm glad you're giving up. I was getting tired of this.

>>12317752
Good job anon, you're making it really hard to tell if this is bait or if you're genuinely this retarded.
You can rest in peace knowing you got me pretty fucking frustrated with your nonsense.

>>12317748
The fact that they're irrelevant is what's wrong.

They shouldn't be irrelevant. There is literally a character screen where you can see the main characters. Why would all the wives be developed so much but Rudolf and Hideyoshi, not as much? Why should Genji, who is one of the few people who apparently could interact with Kinzo not have development?

Gohda, Kumasawa should have been more fleshed out, being the servants. Amakusa is a major character because he accompanies Ange throughout the whole thing. Ryukishi just couldn't deliver.

From here on out, could we just stop replying to the Ange troll? I'll even go ahead and start a new conversation.

What does everyone think about Confession of the Golden Witch? I for one feel like it sheds some light on how EP3 and 4 could be written with any kind of accuracy since not even Tohya could remember that Shkanon was a thing at that point.

>>12317768
Who cares, so many things in the novel conflict and contradict with the concepts established (red truths not mattering in the end, chess board not meaning anything anyway, it was all a dream lel)

If only Ange was a good character. If only

>>12317768
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't both of those episodes still work if you assumed Shannon and Kanon were different people, but were working together and that one of them was Yasu?

>>12317776
There's no context for Yasu existing at all in a Tohya/Ikukuro game without Tohya's memories, which don't kick into EP5. From our perspective knowing that Yasu exists and then going back to a prior episode makes it work out like that, but the writers do no such thing.

>>12317794
>>12317776
You guys miss the point of Umineko anyway. NONE of the mystery stuff matters. It was all for Ange to love her family again and have hope.

The catbox is left closed on purpose so Ange could keep hoping. The real truth was never confirmed, because only your truth matters.

>>12317794
To clarify this a little bit, we know that Shkanon is a thing and know that Kanon's whole purpose is to protect Shannon, then we go back to a prior episode and ask ourselves "well what if they actually were separate people?" and at some point we assume that they'd cooperate just fine since we know who and what Kanon is to Shannon, whereas in Tohya's context the contents of EP2 would imply the opposite.

>>12317809
Shkanon is a fan theory. Unless spoken in red or confirmed straight from the author's mouth it's not the truth.

>>12317809
I haven't read Confession, but does it make it 100% certain Tohya didn't know about Shkanon before Episode 5? Isn't it possible that they simply solved it from the first 2 episodes?

>>12317819
It's more or less solved for them after Confession is revealed, which chronologically happens before EP3 and EP4 are written. Tohya still hasn't grasped the truth, which is why he and Ikukuro go about writing 3 and 4 until Tohya gets his memories back right before 5.

It's not as though there was a 0% chance of solving the whole thing from just EP1 and EP2, since Ryu himself has said it was possible but in rpg terms would be like 'fighting the final boss at level 5', but it is very unlikely, and Confession existing gives us some context for how exactly they went about trying to solve everything.

Although the way the dialogue works it appears that Ikukuro shows Tohya Confession and that triggers his very first memory relapse, which happens when the message bottles are found and before their contents are actually read.

>>12317838
Well, Battler was a genius, if anyone was going to beat the boss at level 5, it would be him.
I guess I really ought to read Confession before talking about this any more though

>>12317873
If you have a hard time finding it, the main portion of the story is really just a very direct version of Yasu's EP7 guilt tripping. It does have some decent insight on the character where Ryu tries to make her seem more like a villain (or at least more like a person that knows what they're doing is wrong) than in the main story. It's the stuff at the beginning that's really interesting, though.

>>12317882
Yasu doesn't exist. In the real world, Battler is alive (not the same as Lord Battler) but Yasu is not there.

>>12317838
Speaking of the memory flash, there's a panel with Shannon (the adult one) showing Battler a stack of papers. What the hell is that about?

>>12317895
Nothing about that really matters in the grand scheme of things. As long as you understand that your truth > the actual truth. That's what Ryukishi was going for. A lesson about what is real and what isn't and how love influences that.

The mystery stuff was just there to make it seem complicated.

>>12317586
please explain how Rosa, Maria, Kinzo and Kyrie didn't exist?

>>12318086
Don't bother anon, he's proven himself time and time again to be a delusional ass

>>12317818
Shkanon, how to solve the question:

>>12317742
hey, where's the problem if there's some fanservice if it isn't ridiculous and/or replaces the story?

The main ressources of fanservice in Umineko are Jessica, Ange, the Stakes and the Siestas showing some leg and the part when Battler tries to grope Shannon. As for that, there's so much worse in anime/manga..

>>12318158
Fucking stupid socks.

Either get regular socks or ZR, fuck.

>>12318158
>the part when Battler tries to grope Shannon
It's hilarious how huge a plot point that scene turned out to be.

>>12318163
Those are regular socks

>>12318166
No, regular socks only go up until about 2 inches over the ankle.

>>12318212
Your socks are weird

>>12317726
Complaining that Gohda, et al, didn't get enough character development in Umineko is like complaining that father Kimiyoshi didn't get enough character development in Higurashi.

>>12318348
But the point of Umineko was that the characters and the interactions and history were important, not the murder.

There are still Umineko apologists in the year of Our Lord 2014? Jesus christ guys.

I'm glad I finally found a current discussion about Umineko that doesn't discount it as some awkward visual novel turned into anime that isn't well liked.
was pubstorr
It's just to bad, I've tried to introduce friends to the series via the same method that I discovered the series. By viewing some of the anime first, then felt intrigued so downloaded the visual novel and felt the most stimulation I've had from a series in a while.

>>12316655
This, exactly this.

>>12317802
The cat box is never meant to be opened, Ange lived on, Battler Lived on, but lost his memory, Eva lived, but died in 1998.

Everyone assumes the story begins in 1986, but that is the past. Present in Umineko is 1998. When Ange is about to suicide-- that is when the series really starts and when her "delusions" begin because she was invited to interact by Bernkastel.
The cat box forever is to be closed. When opened, the true answer if you wish to believe is that Kinzo was already dead, and no one knew about the timer that was set to blow up the island at midnight.


------

On the other hand, the series is a great KICK start to introduce people to the mystery genre. Whodunnit, whydunnit it and howdunnit are critical parts to the story line of Umineko and any Mystery in general--- if there was any series that was responsive to a new audience-- Umineko would be it IF you read the visual novel.

The Red, Blue and Golden Truth's are a great audience tool to help keep track of the story.

The meta world and the real world are fantastic plot devices. Witches, in the end-- its up to the viewer to decide if their interaction at any level was real or it was solely just a delusion. Which then throws the red truth into question because why/how would/could a witch be a gamemaster if they weren't even real?

>>12318086
Because they're already dead.

All the scenes you saw of Rosa shooting the goats, Maria turning in to a witch, Kinzo burning alive, etc. are all FAKE. Because Ange is the only Ushiromiya left and the whole point was for her to deny the rumors. To believe in her family again.

>>12318348
The main cast in Higurashi (Keiichi's group) are all developed nicely.

Gohda, Kumasawa, Rudolf, Nanjo, are all in the same screen as the family. They're supposed to be important and they should have been fleshed out more. Why are the wives all written well but the husbands aren't? It just feels unbalanced.

In Higurashi, K, Rena, Rika, Shion, etc. all have arcs. In Umineko, Rudolf, Hideyoshi and some others just felt left out of the spotlight.

I found Umineko to be disappointing. Early on I was hoping to see a clever solution that would explain everything, but instead we got repetitive preaching about love were told to believe that whatever we like happened instead of revealing what happened. People might say that this was Ryukishi's message, but I'll plainly state that I disagree with his message. Truth isn't subjective; it might be impossible to reach the truth but that doesn't alter the facts.

>>12319428
>On the other hand, the series is a great KICK start to introduce people to the mystery genre.
Really? The whole thing is a pastiche/parody of mystery novels. I think it's a bit like saying that Spaceballs is a good movie to introduce people to science fiction.

Don't forget the fact that Ange exists. The piece of shit icing on the shit cake.

>>12319558
While i admire your tenacity, you become boring.

What I hate about Umineko the most, is what happnened to the Battler character.

He started as a great, a little stubborn guy, who was a good point of reference for a reader, in that twisted meta world.

He denied existance of witches, had a clear goal.
With a setting like this, I can't help but establish, that at this point of the story most readers denied existance of the "true" magic as well.
Because, if someone was convinced, that everything what is show is true, then whole story is pointless.

But this really fall apart in Chiru.
Starting from this "true" and "motive"- I don't know if I missed something, but I read really carefully and I think, that Yasu motive was WEAK as fuck.

Sure, he got a pretty fucked up life, but there are a lot more Ushiromiyas to be blamed for this. Kinzou, Natsuhi especially. But nope, we got told about "Battler Sin" and it turns out, that it was a silly promise, that he made as a kid and quickly forget about this.

No, it's not a passable motive for killing you fucking whole family.
Also Battler started to act like a fucking retard after this. Starting from accepting this weak motive, to this bullshit R07 message about twisted nature of the "truth".

I strongly disagree with any of this, and even by sticking to the deduction and rating this as a mystery, this message is one big pile of shit.

As one anon already mentioned, >>12319547
>Truth isn't subjective; it might be impossible to reach the truth but that doesn't alter the facts.
I don't know why R07 so desperated sticked to this shit, but half of ep8 I sit irritated, that he is forcing this stupid motto so hard to me.

>>12319884
Agreed. Christ, Battler made a stupid promise when he was a 10 year-old kid. I guess I could accept that Yasu was stark raving mad and decided that things were Battler's fault, but Battler accepting the blame for what happened was pretty silly. I guess one could argue that his survivor's guilt had driven him nuts as well. Yasu's responce seemed so over the top that it's hard to accept it. And then you have Ryukishi claiming than anyone who has experienced love will find Yasu's motive and reaction perfectly natural, which peeved me.

>Ryukishi: Umineko is something that cannot be read by people who never fell in love with somebody. It is something that people who have no experience in love and relationships have trouble understanding. „Love can become a motive that has more power over you than life or death“, that is something which is pretty hard to explain to people without this experience. Most of them will think that it’s just „an overdone motive“. But for people who have known love and experienced how much it can make you suffer, they understand that love can turn your world upside down. If you are told „I will come for you again!“ and for 6 years there is nothing, it can make you go crazy, but people who have even slightly suffered due to love will say „those 6 years must have been hell“. But people who no nothing of that pain will probably wait for nothing less than a dramatic gadget to appear, like the heroic story of „at age X her mother and father were brutally murdered“.

>>12319923
Have you never felt true love Anon?

>>12319923
Also it's not like yasu never experienced/got love. George loved Shannon and Jessica at least had the hots for Kanon.
Of course, explaining everything to them would have been... difficult, to say the least, but that would have been the case with Battler too.

>>12320062
Love strong enough to make me want to blow up an island and murder everyone that is close to me? No, I have not.

If anything Yasu's setup reminded me of all those trite romances in anime/manga where the main couple while still in diapers make a promise that they'll marry, which the MC promptly forgets but which shapes the life of the other character. Just because Ryukishi turned it into a tragedy doesn't mean I have to like it.

>>12320076
Yes. I think that Yasu's obsession with Battler's promise was pretty extreme. I can that understand Yasu was isolated on that island but clinging to a promise a 10 year-old kid made that Yasu had met what, a total of 3 times in 3 years?, seemed pretty extreme.

>>12319520
You want a cast of 19 people to be just as developed, in the same amount of time, as a core cast of 6 people? That's not a reasonable expectation.

>>12319923
Well, I think part of it was sympathy for all the fucked up things that had happened to Yasu and his mother.

I always wondered how the rest of the cast would have reacted if Yasu have told them everything?
George and Jessica would surely not have been all too pleased... but still i could't see them just dumping Yasu.

>>12320244
It would've made for a great wacky sitcom premise if they both kept dating Kannon and Shannon and at the same time.

>>12320189
If the writer wanted a bigger main cast, he should have been ready to write more. It's a reasonable expectation.

>>12320267

>>12320276
Me on the right.

>>12319923
>Umineko is something that cannot be read by people who never fell in love with somebody. It is something that people who have no experience in love and relationships have trouble understanding.
So if anyone doesn't like Umineko they're a loser virgin. gg Ryuukishi. Also hasn't just about every adult been in love at least once? What a shitty qualifier to try to use as a shield for your shitty story.

>Love can become a motive that has more power over you than life or death
Possibly the worst platitude of all time, and Umineko makes it its core theme. No one can possibly claim that this series has any serious merit.

>>12320280
Me besides you.

>>12320244
I always wondered how the fuck Ushiromiyas hired Kanon to begin with, if he was only another personality of Shannon/Yasu

>>12320374
Asking how and why is pointless when it comes to Umineko. Ryukishi just justifies everything with love

>>12320123
Obsession man. It can drive a person mad, especially if the person was taught to believe in true love or find an escape from a horrible life.

Yasu was a servant, even though she was the real child of Kinzo and Beatrice. From an early age, she had nobody-- and being told that you're an orphan, with nobody there to love you, no parents, no "normal" life-- is devastating.

So if you have a life of hardship, where no one "ever" loved you, being born out of rape, tossed/dropped from a cliff, and then have the main servant (Gohda) say you're dead so you could escape a life where it was a possible chance to repeat....

Yeah.

If someone says they love you. Someone your age group, someone that you spent quite some time with, alone on an island-- if someone says they'd wait for you, that they'd want you and you're only, what-- a 10yr old servant?

What else is there to expect? From the time the promise was made to when Battler returned, all that time for that obsession manifestation to nurture itself and wanting to kill everyone related to that person.

>Unless I'm fucking wrong.

>>12320062
>>12319923

>>12314741
Thank god for that.
Higurashi avoided the self-pity and the "ablublu everbody hated me".

>>12320673
Okay, but in the meantime George also showed his affection towards Shannon. So did Jessica to Kanon. It's not that Battler was the one and only person who ever was nice to Yasu.

>>12320742
Battler was the first with romance suggestions.

>>12320924
I want to give Gaap the ol' lickaroo.

>>12320759
>>12320742
>>12320673
Let's be real, Yasu still doesn't have a strong enough motivation for all that.

>>12320673
You don't remember things from your baby life. All Yasu knew was that he was an orphan having a really well paid servant job that would probably let him leave the place at around the age of 15.

All Battler's promise really did was make Yasu plan to stay and wait instead of leave with the earned money to live life alone somewhere else. George and Jessica liking him probably just made his time waiting even less of a pain.

Strictly speaking, Yasu had a pretty easy way out by just letting Shannon "leave" and stay as Kanon with Jessica. But no, if you love 3 people it is so confusing it is easier to kill everyone. Just like everyone else in the world who loves more than one person.

>>12320374
I figure that Genji was on all of Yasu's peculiarities, so he just told Krauss and Natsuhi that Kanon was the new servant sent from the orphanage.

>>12320742
They didn't show affection towards Yasu/Beatrice. Keep in mind, they're totally separate personalities. And Beatrice was set up to never forget about the love of Battler.

>>12320673
Whoops, I mean Genji. No one liked Gohda in the first place.
>Thank god I caught that before someone else did.
>Now I don't know if the /jp/ crowd was mature enough and understood the slip, and let it pass.
>This is 4chan, they didn't notice otherwise it would've been ripped to shreds.
>Gulp.

But, still, Episode 7 and 8 were unneeded.

Oh do you say 'Oh, Desire' in Japanese?

>>12322208
Me on the left.

>>12322278
I always knew you were a chicken. Now you have proven me right.

>>12322208

>>12320267
And if they find out, there still is a solution....

Reminder that the Rosatrice theory is the only truth.

>>12322432
there is no truth, only love

>It doesn't matter if characters are flat/undeveloped as long as it's an artistic "choice"!
>Completely shitting the bed halfway through and turning the entire story around so you can hamfist your personal opinions into it's every orifice is great writing, 2intellectual4u

Umineko fans.

It isn't popular because everything after ep3 shit the bed.
What started out as a battle between magic and witches existence ended up being a farce.
I dare say 07th expansion completely ruined his reputation and his works after umineko were ignored because of this.
Umineko? More like umiunko.

>>12314693
But Chinese love Rozen Maiden( at least the data support the first season)

>>12317657
The system keeps thinking I am spamming when I paste an URL. How could you?

>>12314698
>>12317752
Different viewpoint. Look at ALL the aunts.

For a sane person, I can understand why Yasu's motive must seem pretty farfetched. Though Yasu is pretty clearly delusional, at least she seems to be to me. She's always been one to turn something miniscule into a huge deal, or give it a personality, and that's essentially what she did with Battler's promise. One of personality's - Kanon - was created by her as a result of her crippling loneliness after waiting for Battler to return (That's how I saw it, anyway), and her Beatrice persona ended up being affected by it as well.

"Knox's 8th: It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not PRESENTED."

At the very least, at least they gave us some hints about Battler making that shitty promise.

Wow at all those mysteryfags.

Umineko was a wonderful story about a tragedy, all the characters were genuinely interesting and lovable and mixed really well different themes and tones in one single grand work, from stupid shonnen logic battles you kids like so much, to heart-crushing loneliness and sadness drama.

I bet every single one of you faggots who despise umineko only read it with shitty r07 sprites and no voices. No wonder you couldn't connect with the characters' souls and get into the story. I can imagine you going "HARR HARR HURR DURR" and stroking your erect nipples every time Battler pointed with his finger or Beato hahaha.wav'ed in a dramatic shonnen-like plot twist. And then when the story got serious y'all ragequitted like autistic ADHD penguins. Go watch Naruto, I'm sure you'll enjoy it a lot more. Let the adults enjoy art.

Go eat shit and die.

>>12322647
Well, I'm probably one of the biggest Umineko fanboys here, but I prefer the original art.

>>12322647
Holy fuck you are retarded.

>>12322647
While I was introduced to the series quite backwards:
>Anime, PS3 sprite, youtube eps5-8, then rewatched it in original sprites....

I like both ps3 sprites and the original. They have their place, but the PS3 sprites w/ voice acting really is fantastic. It's beautiful, it's a masterpiece.

>>12322647

Is Umineko a good story to read to a toddler?

>>12323062
Only if you want your kid to grow up into having multiple personality while triple timing with 3person at the same time.

>>12323065
>multiple personality
Confirmed for not understanding umineko at all.

>>12323165

>>12323165

>>12323583
Krauss likes what he sees.

Help me.
I played this shit for month, finished, hated it.
But i couldn't stop thinking about this story, characters, this shit is in my dreams every night since then.
And by now I probably love this story.

Don't know fucking why. I need to take this out of my head.

>>12326569
Don't fear, it's your heart telling you not to believe /jp/'s lies. Embrace the seacats.

>>12323239
Always love how accurate this one is.

>>12326733
Yes, plus i always love the faces yasu makes there.

>>12323239
Any more comics like this?

Umineko is literally Law & Order and Harry Potter mixed together.

>>12326946
there you go:
http://marrten.deviantart.com/gallery/26434664/Umineko

>>12326951
Umineko is literally Twilight for boys.

I enjoyed Umineko, but looking back at some specific parts after a month of finishing it, I begin to see why it can seem really ridiculous. I also remember losing attention at Clair's whole play thing at episode 7 in certain parts. It seems real ridiculous in retrospect, but at the same time, I accepted it and just went on. I'd rather not quit the whole VN because of that. Looking at this post pretty much opened my eyes up on how silly it is: >>12319923

It's easy to accept it since most of the characters in Umineko are nuts in their own way. However, they all have their own quirks and that's what makes the characters likeable. I will admit as I went on through the story I begin to not like certain characters and began liking characters a lot more as the story went on. I didn't like Natsuhi in the beginning, but she's probably one of my more favorite characters. I actually don't like George that much as time went on, and I liked Ange at first as well until she began getting super childish. I still like Ange, but I definitely don't dislike her as much as George.

Overall, I thought it was alright, and it was fun to follow. There are problems, of course. Higurashi seems pretty fun though, I finished the first episode a bit ago and a lot of the parts were amazingly funny.

>>12326951
>>12327476
You both are literally objectively and genuinely wrong.

>>12327522
You know I'm right.
Literally.

>>12327529
Ok tough boy, explain the 3 main resemblances between umineko and twilight.

One of the few vns I regret investing so much fucking time in it.

>>12327572
>regretting having read one of the best products ever coming out of japan

lol

>>12327572
It's worth for the music alone

>>12327548
Human character falls in love with someone that is supernatural.

Human character denies supernatural abilities.

Human character faces off against a powerful council of somewhat. Council of powerful vampires and council of powerful witches.

But then again, this was not to try and compare the two stories in the first place since they are both vastly different. This was merely a comparison between both composition between the readers and the format in particular.

>>12327646
>Human character falls in love with someone that is supernatural.
what
>Human character faces off against a powerful council of somewhat. Council of powerful vampires and council of powerful witches.
what

were you high when you read Umineko?

>>12327899
Was that post too advanced for you?
Without love you will never understand.

>>12327958
Anon, come on, the examples you posted are the vaguest, most tenuous comparisons in the world

>>12328059
The examples were not the main focus here. What it was instead was the comparison between both franchises at a standpoint. Why can you not understand that?

>>12328068
But these franchises have nothing similar and as you can see, you cant even back your point by examples

>>12328117
The examples don't matter. It's literally Twilight for boys in the general sense. But I guess you're too weak-willed to accept the examples in the first place...

>>12328128
>The examples don't matter. What matter is my delusion

>>12328160
Nigga, you're not understanding the point, are you?

>>12319923
He wanted us to sympathize with Takano too, as if being in a evil orphanage for a while, then later being laughed at for a theory that brain parasites had evolved religion were good motives for torturing lolies, committing treason, and murdering thousands people. We could say that R07 is in to crazy bitches, or we could interpret this to mean that he likes to showcase fundamentally broken people and try to understand how they reached that point. Also consider what he wrote in the author's section about Shion, about how he hoped that we could understand her actions and motives while still acknowledging that she was basically insane and committed a great wrong.

Though, I still don't like that quote and think that it is a deviation from his older attitude. Pretty much all the main characters (except maybe Mion, though she did accidentally steal the Sonozaki headship, and Gohda, who did try to get his previous boss fired) had done bad things of varying degree, and he never, to the best of my knowledge, tried to apologize for them (other than the H5 victims, and even then at least K1 took full responsibility). Maybe he changed his mind about that the same time he started rejecting his "a puzzle book with no solutions is no fun" statement, or maybe he wanted to do the whole Death of the Author thing, or maybe he just lost touch.

>>12328264
No cicadas spoilers in oceanfelines threads, thank you.

The original Erika design.

>>12328264
That is very insightful. For all the hate Yasu gets in Umineko, I never considered how 34's crimes were just as lacking in a sense of scale, and maybe even worse. Yasu killed ~16, but 34 killed ~2,000.

Yet nobody complains about 34's motivations like they do Yasu's.

(I think referring to the culprit of Higurashi as "34" is the best way to discuss it in public without obvious spoilers)

>>12328458
Yasu motives
-muh dick
-muh body that cant love
-muh battler
-muh ticking timebomb

Takano motive actually made sense plus it is just a game between bernkastel and lambda delta.

>>12328372
Takano was the real protaganist of Higurashi all along.

She was an orphan, she was a traitor to Japan, and the secret organization that only hired her because her grandfather was doing some research into a disorder that drove people mad.

The secret organization was called "Tokyo."

The disease only is effective and will reach critical level and kill everyone if the queen bee dies. One of the main characters in the "Higurashi" series is the queen bee, and whenever she dies-- there is less then 24 hours before everyone else dies.

The reason for discrepancies in her body being discovered burned in a drum, but the time of death was forensically claimed 24 hours before she went missing-- this was before DNA was easily possible for identification being 1983, so dental records were the main source of identifcation and since she was part of the secret organization called TOKYO they were easily forged and accessible for the NPK if needbe.

Takano is the lead protagainst in Higurashi.
Bernkastel was created from the horror that Rika experienced, over a 100 years of repeated failures led her to a jaded experience which spun off into the Witch of Miracle which we see in Umineko--

Bernkastel was not an originally introduced character in Umineko until the 3rd game, where Battler almost gave up and gave in to Beatrice RED TRUTH that everything that happened on Rokkenjima that night was because of MAGIC. That the murders only happened because of MAGIC.

In all selfish glee, Bernkastel injected herself into the game that Beatrice created on the cat box known as the Rokenjima Incident, October, 1986 w/ the introduction of Ange. A family member of the ushiromiya, that was Battler's half sister and the true daughter of Battler's dad Rudolf and 2nd wife Kyrie.

While up until epsiode 8, Ange main role in the game was merely as an observer, she truely is an protagonist, as the games, each different episode was truly made just for her-

>>12328458

Yasu gets hated more because they try to make the reader like her more. 34 was ultimately just a crazy evil villain, not a tragically misunderstood childhood friend.

Umineko is the worst, fastest case of a story going from "This is so awesome" to "This is total dogshit".

Good music tho.

>>12328531
Nope, that would be The Godfather.

>>12328372
Though I am severely disgusted by anyone who would voice an opinion about Umineko without having already read Higurashi, I will do my best to be more vague in the future.

>>12315090
How do people post url?

So, how many /jp/ers would get Ange on the Umineko Personality Test?

>>12328933
I didn't.

>>12328933
Uu-uu

>>12328933
I got Bern. Get on my level, burger.

I heard that Higanbana was a flop, but RGD was doing well. Can anyone confirm?

>>12328933
>Congratulations, your result has been determined. You share this result with 33% of our members.
I don't think a quiz giving 33% people the same result from a cast of well over 50 characters is very well made.

>>12329154
>>12328979
Congratulations, your result has been determined. You share this result with 3% of our members.

I think the quiz is perfectly fine. Clearly you and Ange are of similar mind.

It's okay , so you picked the trick ending and threw Kinzo's gift into Poseidon's realm.

No need to insult the quizmaster, why not challenge him to a game?

>>12329164
I wholeheartedly picked 'Magic' at the end and have made long posts explaining why Umineko's ending only makes sense and had been foreshadowed for several episodes at that point. I love games and have answered as such in the quiz, and in the quiz I even said I can't prove magic does not exist.

The quiz is bullshit.

>>12329189
>Congratulations, your result has been determined. >You share this result with 33% of our members. >You are Ange!

Alright, I shall make a quiz with all the characters. All of them.

Here's a link, because I'm not a faggot like the other posters:

http://www.theotaku.com/quizzes/view/2424/what_umineko_no_naku_koro_ni_character_are_you%3F

>>12329238
>What would describe you the best?
>[y] Quiet
>[y] Loner
>[y] Mysterious
I swear the one who made this ri-

>chose one, the rest alive
>My life!
>Uu-uu!

>>12329009
Well, i got Maria too.

>>12329027
My witch nigga

>>12328821
You don't need to read Higurashi at all to read Umineko.

>>12330092
You do if you want your opinion to be taken serious.

>>12330335
I don't care about your opinion.

>>12330338
Well you're stupid.

>>12330374
Oh, what now?

Should I lower the bar even more and just answer with "NO U"?

Fuck your retarded elitism.

>>12330084
Just out of curiosity, are there just the "witches" (we had Bern, Lambda, Maria and Ange so far) or other characters as well?

>>12317586
>Featherine
>implying that witches exist

>>12314683
At least it's popular here

>>12331720
Yeah, too bad beta weeaboos here despise anything not popular enough in glorious nippon.

So who killed Nanjo in ep3?

>>12332402
Pretty sure it is supposed to be read as Yasu killing him as Beatrice, then faking his voice to pretend to be Kanon and lead Jessica away.

Some Anon tends to make a big deal out of that part since the gold is found so the killing should have stopped. And most others try and explain that keeping it a secret means Yasu isn't aware of it.

On top of that you could claim you saw Beatrice handing over the title earlier, which is just meta and not related to the piece Yasu/Beatrice.

>>12332849
Isn't this a little bullshit?
If they are counting personalities as persons (because red text said, that Shannon and Kanon are dead), then how they can say, that there is only left Battler, Jessica and Eva? Because technically Yasu/Beatrice is still alive as a personality.

And if red text/R07 can count personality as a person only when this is suitable for "mystery", then it's stupid.

>>12332867
Here's the quotes you're referring to.

There's a simple catch. Every time it repeats '<person> is dead'...but not '<person> WAS dead [at the time of the murder]'. It's possible for the killer to have died after committing murder but before those statements.

>>12332867

The Red Truth never said "only Battler, Jessica, and Eva" are alive. It says

>[Long list of people who are dead]
>The 15 people mentioned are dead
>Battler is alive
>Eva is alive
>Jessica is alive

Witches are tricky like that. Check it:

http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Truth

>>12332996 is a much more straight-forward trick than >>12332982.

Saying that 3 people are alive doesn't exclude the possibility of a 4th, unmentioned possibility being alive (Beatrice/Yasu).

>>12329093
Well, Higanbana has more pages of Pixiv fanart than RGD (49 vs 28).

I know Higanbana has also been out longer, but Higanbana still has more fanart if you pro-rate for that.

>>12333010
Except for
>Shannon is dead.
>Kanon is dead.
making is a lot less straightforward, especially with personality of 'Yasu' not being introduced (or even hinted at) until after the Question Arcs, which are to provide all the hints with which the mystery can be solved.

>>12332982
>>12332996
This was a big let down for me.

In most of cases solving the mystery is not about deduction based on hints, but focusing on silly word play.

Basically, whole "truth" that the reader need to deduct, is that shannon=kanon=beatrice=yasu and even though that was well foreshadowed here and there, is rather weak and nothing mind blowing.

I know that it's my personal feeling, but after learning this my reaction was
>eh, so thats the trick? well it's rather weak solution
instead of
>holy fuck, that was pulled off in amazing way

>>12333063
Shannon and Kanon's personalities are dead.

Also, the answer arcs are full of tons of hints about making different personalities. That whole prologue for EP2 with Jessica and Kanon is there for a reason.

Also, a really clever thing in EP3:

>Battler: "No, umm, .........th, that's right! What about multiple personalities...?! Just like you were originally another personality of Eva oba-san's, ......let's say Jessica had another, witch-like personality, which took the name of 'someone other than Jessica' and killed Doctor Nanjo...!!"
>EVA-Beatrice: "Moron. I've already said it in red. Jessica's eyes were completely blocked, and murder was impossible for her!"

Notice how, after explicitly denying tons of possibilities like robots, animal killers, and traps with the red truth, she never denies the possibility of multiple personalities? She just tries to misdirect Battler, pointing out that it couldn't be *Jessica's* multiple personality. He was so close, but not quite close enough.

>>12333111
There are tons of hints that Shannon = Kanon, yes. There is not a single hint that there is a third personality in the body until episode 5's phone call to Natsuhi. Therefore, you cannot say 'Shannon is dead' AND 'Kanon is dead' yet somehow have the body of Shkanon being alive. By that logic, you could also say that Battler has an alternate personality which actually killed Nanjo; it's never denied, after all. However, Knox's 8th: It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented. Yasu was not hinted towards in the Question Arcs, therefore Yasu cannot be the answer.

>>12333106
It is deduction based on hints. Follow everything to its logical conclusion, and you get the answer that only one of the dead people could've killed Nanjo. Then re-read the part to see the trick and find out that one of the dead people did, indeed, kill Nanjo, by simply still being alive at the time of the murder. It's not any pettier a trick than 'we never confirmed the body's identity'.

To which witch should we pray on this matter?

so after more than 4 years of procrastinating i finally finished ep 6,7 and 8 and i think i will explode from all this shit

So sayo was a dude who liked to crossdress, and fooled battler, george and jessica?

what the fuck man?

>tfw you liked Kyrie and she ended up being some crazy sociopath cunt as the story progressed

>>12333510
It is in serious need of a miracle, but it won't happen, because Bern is a bitch.

If you work very hard toward it, Lambda.

>>12333510
If nothing else works, you can go Ange to resurrect it after.

>>12334137
>l-look guys i'm jumping on the bandwagon, am I o-one of y-you yet?

>>12334137
It's a big simplification.

Is like saying, that Battler is a dude who like to pretend that he is Toya.

>>12334137
a bit more complex this is...
The whole story how it comes to that is there. It's not like Yasu is just an idiot who enjoys trolling George and Jessica...

>>12335431
i didn't mean to say fooled as trolled, i just don't get how jessica and george didn't notice that shannon and kannon were the same person, specially jessica since she was living in the same place

>>12328933

>>12335475
George and Shannon didn't spend much time together, if Shannon played along it would have been possible to trick him.
Jessica on the other hand.. you're richt, she had Shannon and Kanon always around, and regarded Shannon as a fiend an spent quite some time with her fpr years.. hard to imagine that she never at least grew suspicious.

>>12335772
Well.
They make big fuss, that Natsuhi never allowed Jessica to play with Shannon, so they probably spent time together only when she was absent.

And Kanon ignored Jessica for most of the time, and this whole "love" from Jessica was only a silly crush.

>>12335785
>tfw battler/george will never fuck kanon's boypussy

>>12328933
Took it for fun but didn't see that one coming.

The cross dressing confuse me a bit still. What reason did Yasu have to dress as a girl?

As I see it, dressing as a man would be more beneficial to avoid Kinzo seeing some resemblance to Beatrice and discovering him. If Yasu is a man, dressing as a man also would be the most obvious choice. At the end Yasu seem to stop caring about dressing as a girl and creates Kanon as a guy, which makes it hard to see it as dressing as a girl was a choice he made on purpose.

If you flip the chess board, it seems easier to think of Yasu as a girl, being Shannon since that is the most straight forward role. Herself with a fake name. Liking boys would also be quite natural in this stage. In addition as a girl Yasu would have an easier time to feel for Jessica's position as boyfriend-less and have a good reason to create Kanon.

Overall Yasu's personality and actions fit better with her being female. The biggest argument against this is the male voice call, which is tempting to be read as a proof of a male Yasu, even if it could have been a faked voice.

The manga most likely shows the sex in an obvious way, but I haven't read that far yet.

>>12328933
According to that I'm Ange.

Does that mean that I can dress with no underwear now?

>>12335935
Battler would approve it.

>>12335475
I don't really remember but were Shannon and Kanon shown in the same place with George and Jessica on the gameboard?

Because why do you think they were tricking them?

Newfags here don't remember 2ch trashing Umineko and going "lol is this for real" as the story got dumber and dumber.

>>12336300
That story was too complex for typical jap VN readers.

>>12336351
Jesus, /jp/'s umineko fanbase is hilarious.

I feel ready for event.

Doing PvP. First fight all my ships decide it is fun to scratch damage the highest level BB on the other side and ignore the rest. Second fight it is 3 un-remodeled subs and I go in with 2 DDs + 1 BB giving me 4 easy attacks, but gets RNGed to red on one DD and can't finish off more than 2 subs. Next battle, red T and can't kill 1 BB and 2 CV out of 4 ships even with night battle due to just chip damage on my double attacks.

With this frustration and bad luck, there is nothing the event has to throw my way that can make it much worse.

>>12336356
Complains started with 2 episode, when Kanon draw his blade and more weird shit started to happen.

That is why R07 introduced Virigilia and her explanation of magic scenes, because people over there were literally too dumb to notice, that narration can be missleading and only Battler POV can be trusted.

>>12336300
Why do you care what nip nerds think? Are you unable to form an opinion of your own?

>>12336360
FUCK KANCOLLE

>>12336491
Look at the fucking question in the OP, you mongoloid.

>>12336393
And Battler POV is allowed to be mistaken and wrong, which makes it a very unfair game.

>>12336393
Any problems with Darth Kanon?

>>12336553
>game
There's your problem.

Umineko is just a novel.

>>12336570
He was talking about the internal game of Umineko.

>>12336555
Can you remove the background?

>>12336636
Is this the new "who are you quoting?"?

guys what if

guys

what if

the red truth

was true only in some worlds and

and the gold truth

was true in all worlds

>>12336870
More like you can back the fuck off bro.
Everyone knows the red is only for the truth.
The blue is the players truth. Blue can not clash w/ RED.


RED TRUTH IS ABSOLUTE IN ALL WORLDS.

>per volume

How did nips feel about the theory goats calling us all cruel idiots?

>>12336870
That actually would make sense.

As in, what's the fucking point of golden truth?

>>12332982
>>12332996
That was the solution offered in episode 4 and is wrong. The real answer is >>12332849

The red could have read '<person> was dead [at the time of the murder' for all of them and still work, but that would make the real answer far too obvious. You should notice how evasive Eva-Beatrice becomes when Battler pursues the 'Jessica has a witch personality' point.

>>12336870
Not true, the manga goes deeply into this subject. There are three types of red truth. One type refers to only the specific gameboard, it's a truth of what happened in that game. Another type is a global rule for all gameboards, it's an assumption that no gameboards violate. The last is a truth that is evident from the real world.

>>12336895
K He said those things during the fight against the goats, right?

R Exactly. Those goats who appeared at that point really had guts, hadn’t they? It was Will and Dlanor who said that, but I too actually have some respect for those goats who kept on making theories, even though they were attacked by the red again and again. I accept them as adversaries. Who I am really mad about are those goats who actually gave up thinking.

>>12335903
Yasu was raised as a girl. He didn't choose it. He can't easily throw away his whole childhood of believing he's a girl when he fails to get his first period and is told the truth.

>>12336977
...and that's it?

This is one of the most blown out of proportion things ever said about r07. He's literally not insulting anyone.

>>12333350
>There is not a single hint that there is a third personality in the body until episode 5's phone call to Natsuhi.
Yeah, there's absolutely no scenes with Shannon and Kanon interacting with a witch nobody else can see.

>>12336969
Which is why nobody actually like the games when the solution arcs came out.

A lots of people went "surely the solution cant be this retarded, I hope R07 can give us a mindblowing answer"

And then 2years later after all the answer arcs came out, the only redeeming things left from umiunko is the music.

>>12337002
>the only redeeming things left from umiunko is the music
Sure, because all those hours of enjoyment reading it suddenly stopped existing, right?

>>12337005
They became feelings of disgust.
Worse, I need to treat the earlier part of the story as amnesia Battler rambling and fanfiction.

>>12337008
You didn't like the destination, ok, but you can't unenjoy the ride. All you are doing right now is being a bitchy ungrateful piece of shit.

>>12337011
He's not being ungrateful. R07 deserves a bullet in his skull, that's what.

>>12336969
>That was the solution offered in episode 4 and is wrong.
I don't recall that. Proof of that solution being wrong, please?

>>12336998
Great anime screenshot, read the VN instead. But no, there were no hints of a third personality in Shkanon. Beatrice has always been a way to refer to 'the murderer'. 'Beatrice is here' means 'the murderer is among us' whenever not referring to meta-Beatrice.

>>12337008
What I don't get is that people only treat Umineko like this. G-Senjou no Maou screwed up its main story far harder (to the point were the main story in its entirety can't be taken seriously anymore due to the twist being retarded and unfitting), yet people continue to speak highly of it. (I personally rated it high because I could enjoy the individual chapters, but even I - who like Umineko and Remember11's endings - feel that G-Senjou's twist retroactively made the rest of the game worse.) Remember11 gets a lot of flak regarding its ending, but nearly everybody can agree that at least the story is still very enjoyable even with the unsolved mysteries. Only Umineko has people hate it in its entirety after having had universal acclaim for 5 episodes, solely due to its ending. Not just Chiru gets the hate, Umineko 1-4 is also retroactively considered terrible by a lot of people. I don't get it.

>>12336975
>P.S. I forgot to mention it throughout the entire VN but the red truth doesn't actually work the way I said it did, it works this completely different way instead.
Please die, R07. You should have taken the place of your friend.

>>12337015
This site is 18+.

>>12337019
>Great anime screenshot, read the VN instead. But no, there were no hints of a third personality in Shkanon. Beatrice has always been a way to refer to 'the murderer'. 'Beatrice is here' means 'the murderer is among us' whenever not referring to meta-Beatrice.
Couldn't you have grasped at a fatter straw?

>>12337023
Fuck off, R07. No one likes your crap.

>>12337027
>>12337021
>>12337015
Oh my, aren't you the little edgy teenager. Does your dad touch you in places?

Umineko was enjoyable, but a explanation to a mystery being "well here is that Yasu person, who have 3 different personalities, brilliant, right?" is just weak.

Things like that are just fishy.
You can't count personalities as different persons and say things like "Shannon is dead" only because... that multiple personality guy is pretening, that one part of him is dead?

As I said, it's just fishy.

In Dangan Ronpa there was a girl with second personality as well, but even with this, she was treated as ONE person, so no matter which side of her do the crime, it's still tied to this one body.
but she never kills anyway

>>12337019
What twist? The one where he is maou in other routes except one? You don't seem to realize this but in maou, the game isn't linear and there is a huge disconnection for each route that you can treat the story separately.
And R11 makes perfect sense they are in an infinite loop.

The catbox shit and choosing to believe in magic to not hate your family is frankly the last straw for most ex umineko fans.

>>12337019
>I don't recall that. Proof of that solution being wrong, please?
Proof of it being right? None of the solutions Will presents for episode 3 imply that any of the people who are believed to be dead when found are actually alive, save for Kanon and Shannon. Yasu faked his death to appear dead as Shannon, why would he actually die when he could do the same thing as Kanon? He was still running around as evidenced by the 07151128 message, and there is no motive evidenced anywhere for any of the other people who could have possibly killed Nanjo under the wrong explanation - Natsuhi, Krauss, Kyrie, Hideyoshi and Rudolf. Yasu on the other hand has a clear motive to kill everyone, and Rosa and Eva explicitly agreed to keep the gold finding secret, so Yasu wouldn't know to stop.

>>12337019
>Great anime screenshot, read the VN instead. But no, there were no hints of a third personality in Shkanon. Beatrice has always been a way to refer to 'the murderer'. 'Beatrice is here' means 'the murderer is among us' whenever not referring to meta-Beatrice.
Hilarious. I only posted an anime version because I couldn't find the VN version I'm sure I made. The exact same thing happened in the VN, and the fact that you decided to disregard that as meaning "the murderer is among us" (and not even among those present) doesn't change that in hindsight it's a very clear hint.

>>12337019
I still like Umineko, but satisfactory ending to the long story is important.
I am not surprised, that people are disappointed.

They could enjoy ep 1-4, but when you read it, one of the most imporant factory driving people is "woah, I can't wait to see answers to all of these mysteries".

So when answers are weak, you cant help but be disappointed. And feel like you wasted time a little.

On the other hand you can have brilliant ending that explaint everything with massive plot twist, like Ever17, and even if routes separately were not that good, together story is fantastic and you feel pleased in the end.

>>12337039
>choosing to believe in magic to not hate your family
But anon, you don't "believe" in magic. Didn't you get at all the scene with beatrice doing the trick prior to that?

>>12337043
Not to mention Maria clearly believes in Beatrice beyond just being "the murderer".

If you think there's no evidence for Shannon and Kanon being Beatrice, you're disregarding half of episode 2.

>>12337091
>>12337043
I never said Shkanon isn't Beatrice, and Shkanon is indeed the person who killed Nanjo in ep3. What I'm saying is that Shkanon did not survive to the end of ep3. You cannot state Shannon and Kanon are both dead with Shkanon still being alive.

>>12333510
>being told 'miracle won't happen'
>being told 'sadpanda won't be saved'

>>12328933
that's right, ihihihihi.

>>12337235
>magic does no exist
How ironic

>>12337035
> They reference small bombs in DR1
> Nagito is a corrupted version of the previous game's main character in name and behavior, like Bern and Erika
> DR director is one of us

>>12336996
You should see some of the quotes from Rose Guns Days, which can sound hillariously insulting to the Japanese people, especially if taken out of context. Like:

"These days, there's a certain wretchedness in the Japanese people.

>>12337175
>You cannot state Shannon and Kanon are both dead with Shkanon still being alive.
That makes more sense than what I thought you meant, but red:
>6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!
This is stated long before Nanjo's death, so R07 can and did state that they were dead when Yasu was still alive.

The same trick is used all over the series, really. How can "Kanon" be dead in episode 2 when Yasu is still alive? Or how can Kanon be the 9th to die when Yasu is the last in episode 4? Since Kanon and Shannon are just personalities of Yasu, they can be dead without the body being dead.

If a personality is perceived as an individual by everyone, then's it's an individual. If a personality perceived as an individual dies, then only that personality is dead.

>>12337586
The original Japanese line is slightly more ambiguous:
>金蔵、源次、紗音、嘉音、郷田、熊沢の６人は死亡している！
(Of Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gouda, Kumasawa, 6 people have died!)

It does not outright state 'Kanon and Shannon are dead', rather stating 'six people are dead' while very strongly implying Shannon and Kanon are among the six dead. Battler comes to the conclusion one of the six is the culprit after some discussion, and theorizes that they died in an accident. Beatrice is about to deny that but is stopped by Ronove who tells her to give up on the first twilight so as to minimize the losses (i.e. not say too much). Shkanon survived the first twilight despite heavy implications (but no 100% confirmation) both Shannon and Kanon are dead.

(Further mentions to 'the six people' in Japanese refer to just 'six people', never a specific like 'these six people'.)
>６人は即死であった！ (6 people met an instant death!)
>６人はトラップで殺されてはいない！ (6 people weren't killed by traps!)
>６人は誰も自殺していない！ (Of 6 people, none committed suicide!)
６人 does not necessarily have to include Shannon and/or Kanon.

Any other murder mystery visual novels?

I already played both Dangan Ronpa too.

I've been photoshopping this Bern everywhere.

>>12337035
It's not fishy. The entire point is to get you to understand why the person doing it considers Shannon and Kanon separate people even though they're just one persons different personas.

>>12336996
Except he clearly didn't respect the goats. They were portrayed as incredibly stupid and callous, if not outright evil. He only claimed respect after the uproar. Even the interviewer, who otherwise fellates him, made him admit that it didn't turn out properly.

>>12339710
What? How can you fabricate something like that from >>12336977 ?

>>12339717
Read the entire interview, dipshit. It's on the wikia.

>>12339540
Okay, now that's just mean.

>A person is a being, such as a human, that has certain capacities or attributes constituting personhood, which in turn is defined differently by different authors in different disciplines, and by different cultures in different times and places. In ancient Rome, the word persona (Latin) or prosopon (πρόσωπον; Greek) originally referred to the masks worn by actors on stage. The various masks represented the various "personae" in the stage play.[1]

There is nothing wrong with treating Kanon and Shannon as different persons. This is even accurate to the dictionary.

So what whit this Bern quote, where she said, that ep7 was misleading to drive the people away from truth?
Becuase that was the episode, that made Shkannotrice obvious option.

>>12340393
You just can't kill your personality at will to suddenly get out of the locked room to save battler. Shit is retarded.

>>12340962
Oh, so this is just a matter of you not understanding the trick, ok.

>>12340999
There is a a reason why tons of people hated umineko after the whole thing.
Locked room.
Shannon escaped as Kanon.
Kanon then rescued Battler.
That is all there is to it. All red is met and no logic error.

Most people didn't like it, there is no super trick or mindblowing twist that made everyone shit bricks. Umineko apologists always go back to how the mystery is not an integral part of the story or how the you have no love blah blah.

Or are we back to the catbox theory where since no solutions is given, anything is still possible?

>>12341610
>there is no super trick or mindblowing twist that made everyone shit bricks
That's usually how mystery goes. Have you seen a single Detective Conan episode in which the solution was awesome?

>>12342256
So Ryu is no better than the writers for Scooby Doo after all.

>>12342312
Basically, 90% of mystery writters.

>>12341338
new thread
>>12341338