/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>image.jpg

burger eating is very moe. Because girls love the burger

moe things are moe

Things I like. Because I like them.

It's hard to put into words anything specific. For me it's more about personality than any sort of aesthetic or specific thing. I don't usually find characters who are designed to be moe to be very moe, since they tend to be pretty forced and one-dimensional.

>>12099930
萌え　is like kawaii but can include things like this

Fino because innocence, joy, and laughter.

>>12099985
So there's 2 ways to talk about it? As salespeople and as fans? Interesting that its the personality.

>>12099941
Mmmmmm

>>12100016
Well the face could be and maybe the body language, as I see it. I guess it has little to do with context?

>>12100054
Here and OP.

>>12100042
Fino had a great cackle, I thought so too.

>>12099930

Imouto because incest.

Contradictions (i.e. "gap" moe). I love girls with lewd bodies that are very reserved and virginal and I like lolis that are really lewd.

Female embarrassment in general. Even better when they're "tough" characters, like katana girls.

Yuri tension between female friends.

Typical moe dressing: glasses, school swimsuits + overknee socks, school uniforms, maid outfits, cat ears.

Certain seiyuu (mostly Kana Asumi and Haruko Momoi).


Things are primarily moe because they play on the concept of propriety. Virginal characters have their propriety violated in some way and they react to "correct" it (e.g. blushing, denying feelings). The reaction is what generates moe. Moe also occurs through fetish objects and archetypes that have gained "moe status" through repetition or implication (school outfits, glasses, tsundere, imouto).

>>12100100
So paradoxes and unrequited/catch-22 feelings? I would think those would make me feel wistful or frustrated.

>>12100133
>So paradoxes and unrequited/catch-22 feelings? I would think those would make me feel wistful or frustrated.
Well, it's a fleeting emotion. It's like certain combinations of narrative/visual elements will trigger moe. Gap moe works by emphasizing moe elements with their opposite or by betraying our expectations. Some are now standards like oppai loli or tsundere.

"Wistful" feelings like bittersweet nostalgia are also included in the moe spectrum (like the type you would feel watching Hidamari Sketch or K-On). I get similar feelings reading/watching romance, like a warmth in my chest and this feeling of "ah, I wish I could be there and live a life like that." I guess that makes me feel a little bummed out when I remember where I am (3D world).

>>12100147
>It's like certain combinations of narrative/visual elements will trigger
In some ways it makes me think that it's like trope inversions or wrinkles meant to make the characters feel more genuine, the little detail that you can't make up, because we know that fact is stranger than fiction. The characters are love interests for the viewer on purpose.

>>12100205
>trope inversions or wrinkles meant to make the characters feel more genuine
Yeah, ironically, gaps make the character feel more powerful through contradiction. Perhaps it's because it's so ridiculous that we just take it at face value without questioning it. Or rather, the stories are written in a way in which reactions and behaviors are justified. Idk, cranking it to 11 makes it a little less personal in appreciation, but it's still moe as an exercise in digesting moe symbols. Like an imouto-nekomimi-maid-loli-swimsuit+kneesocks-meganekko is just so ridiculous that I can't even process it mentally, but my body knows it's moe as fuck. It's denpa-kei.

Moe characters are pretty impossible to begin with. I think that's why they're so attractive. I'm of the firm stance that there's no such thing as real-life moe despite what some ignorant assholes will say.

Moe is filling gaps.
Moe is participation.
Moe is seeing what you want to see.

>>12100230
>Moe characters are pretty impossible to begin with.

Drawing them means we can have symbols that look like real things but are as hallowed as typefaces - like elves.

If we're talking about in real life though, I would hope not. Are mentally ill people ever moe? Some of the hysterics in anime seem taken from Western media, filtered through a Japanese lens, and treated as comedy but don't have much to do with the Japanese really.

>>12099930
What is moe to me?
Girls that are timid, prone to loneliness but also pranksters (eg Yamada from working), girls that are pathetic in the etymological sense of the term without conotation (eg Fate from nanoha or Akari from yuruyuri), apathetic/sleepy/sickly girls (eg Patchouli from touhou or Kiyama Harumi from raildex), girls that don't stand out / are "normal" / have a weak presencem (most secondary character who appear in 3 episode if they're lucky then are never heard about. eg Matsumoto Rise from yuru yuri, pic related)

Fangs, demon girls, ponytails, old-type sukumizu + kneesocks, patting the head, comforting a girl, old-language like わらわ (eg that loli in black bullet, Futo from touhou) or weird speech pattern (eg Karen from kinmoza, Chaika from hitsugi no chaika)

What things are moe and why?
Moe is like a fetish but for cute things instead of boldly sexual things. Of course it's eroticised cuteness (エロかわいい). And it makes your heart go kyunn, like, after experiencing something moe you're at the peak of hapiness and if you died you'd die without any regrets.

In the same fashion that people have various preferences for what is sexy, people have a preference for what is cute. And moe is at the crossroad of those two.

>>12100205
Well, gap-moe is a form of moe in itself rather than a tool to underline a moe trait. While also being a tool to underline a moe trait.
For example, as opposed to a typical dojikko who just messes up and is cute, a character can be mostly serious and perfectionist, but have some doji occurrences; while it makes the doji trait stick out more, it's the fact that there is a gap-moe in itself that is important.
At least that's how I see it.

>>12100240
Moe is a love unrequited.

Don't think, feel... and you'll be moe

moe to me is jp clinging desperately onto their desolate lives

Jojo.

>>12100257
>girls that don't stand out / are "normal" / have a weak presence
Oh god, this so much. The average, unremarkable girl has become something so remarkable in the world of anime/manga logic.

>while it makes the doji trait stick out more, it's the fact that there is a gap-moe in itself that is important.
>At least that's how I see it.
Well I think gap moe works by emphasizing individual moe traits beyond usual levels by utilizing their opposites. It's like how adding a little salt makes things taste sweeter. Gap moe doesn't exist per se. It only exists thanks to other moe elements in contradiction.

I notice a lot of moe archetypes rely on gaps/contradictions. Like tsundere--hurting a person you love. Ojou-sama types--super obnoxiously arrogant but actually insecure (and sometimes poor to boot). I think moe fundamentally relies on the gap between reality and fiction. Perhaps all moe is gap moe.

Of course, it's gotten so sophisticated now that gaps can be made based on multiple levels of self-reference. It's so insular that reality is a thing of the past.

>>12099930

>>>/a/

>>12100257
Also forgot to add:

There is a conotation of pureness/naivete (which is probably why virginity is emphasised), and some degree of docility that also translates into vulnerability.
example: catgirls and other type of pet girls, imouto, loli, maids, androids, etc.
All of the aforementioned type of character are of inferior/weaker status, petholder/pet young/adult sevant/master, etc.
Even mother type characters, they have a soft spot and can't resist younger people or something similar, while onee-san type character have that one bad-habit or weakness it could be alcohol, it could be a weak body; it makes them dependant, and lack of self-reliance is child-like.

And with that pureness, lewd things are to some degree taboo. Not only opetic stuff like lewd things would be a "corruption" of the purity, but also more concrete taboos like incest or sexual acts with minors.

Moe is about cuteness on the surface, but the sexual aspect, while not apparent at first sight is not to be forgotten.
So I guess it's about cute girly weakness that makes the otaku male superior to the female he lusts after but cannot embrace since they don't real.
If it's overtly sexual it's not moe, if it's not cute it's not moe, and if you're not considering sex with it then it's not moe either.


But like >>12100271 said, it could be on the Nth degree; I doubt a cute little fang is a dirrect indicator of a "cute girly weakness"; however it definitely suggests one.

Though it's still only my opinion, and I have no idea of how close or far I am to the truth.
>>12100271
>The average, unremarkable girl has become something so remarkable in the world of anime/manga logic.
You should watch isshuukan friends if you aren't already.

Contradictions is also a big chunk of humour. I guess that with our pattern-based logic/thinking contradictions are a big deal.

moe is just a measure of cuteness

its' subjective to individual humans

bahgah and loli futanari

>>12100439
that's why he's asking though

I think of it as the personality and circumstances version of kawaii. Kawaii is just appearance, moe is actions.

For example, I don't like this character or think she is cute, but this is moe.

I like crying moe

>>12100515
I swear all of the female characters were designed from an F1 car. Why else would they have those huge scoops on their heads?
Does it help with cooling?

>>12100520
"Alternative" energy man. Japan likes this stuff.

anything can be a moe depending on the individuals preference
of course there are the common things
my bf tells me ponytail and pink is his moe

>>12100593
>my bf
Your what?

>>12100593
Kyon is a cartoon, not your boyfriend.

>>12100596
Never seen a girl in /jp/ before?

>>12100606
Wearing a skirt does not make you a girl.

>>12100620
Speak for yourself.

>>12100620
how about makeup, shaved legs, panties and a summer dress?

>>12100439
>>12100491
Moe is more than kawaii.

>Kawaii is just appearance, moe is actions.
No, because a person can "act cute." Moe is a very specific, specialized type of /appeal/, not cuteness.

For example, a crying girl can be moe, but the act of crying isn't cute. Or a "normal girl" is moe because her lack of outstanding traits makes her ironically endearing and unique amongst a cast of crazy archetypes. Glasses suggest bookishness, and a quiet, reserved disposition. It's about vulnerability and innocence. It's about how much you can project onto the character and that feeling of wanting to reach in and touch them (to wipe away tears, to protect them, to love them, etc). It's a trait that's unique to characters, unlike cute.

>>12099930
Ah, look at this example of moe.

Trying too hard to lose weight is dangerous, you cutie.

>>12099930
>>12099930

Waaah I overslept today! I was suppose to wake-up an hour ago!

>>12100749
I misread this thread I thought you asked "how moe are you jp?" I should stop sleep posting

the suffering of lolis is moe

>>12100760
Please don't.

>>12100760
>>12100749
It sounded like you liked those types of characters that run to school with a toaster in their mouths.

Yankee girls and refined ojousama.

Sometimes I dream about a perfect combination of the two, but there are some things that were not meant for mortal men.

>>12100826
A "refined thug moe"?

>>12100860
>>12100826
What about cases like Yukari from "Waratte! Sotomura-san"?

>>12100860
That's totally a thing too. Yankii-kun to Megane-chan is a good example.

>>12100826
I like tough, yankee girls with a heart of gold. That shit melts my heart every time.

what kind of moe is it when the protagonist tries to rape the heroine and she lets him do it because she secretly likes him and wants him to feel better?

>>12101798
Manga for females moe

>>12099930
Fino's voice. Or more to the point, Aoi's voice. And the way she looks and everything about her.

I think it's a bit like this.

I wonder what you guys think about the combination of moe and ero content.
There's a lot of doujin voice works that are both, and at right proportions the combination can be deadly. I really think that people making those caught on that this is basically a step up from "cute girls doing cute things" to "cute girl(s) doing cute (and lewd)things with you".

>>12101949
Falling over and showing the panties is moe. Being embarrassed at wearing a lewd outfit or too innocent to realize it is lewd is moe. It's not really detached from ero.

>>12101949
my favorite ero-moe is when the girl acts cutely about being deflowered.

>>12101955
Is a girl with cute voice saying おちんちん moe?

>>12101957

The closer they are to a 4-hear old's mentality, the better.

>>12101975
Except still remain innocent unlike the average reality TV-watching, beer-drinking, politically-oblivious girls with 4-year-old mentalities.

>>12100698
I think crying is cute.

Normal characters are usually pretty cute too.

Glasses too.

>>12100698
>>12102241
Like me, anon-chan?

>>12101949
Venn diagrams are moe~!

>>12101975
Do you prefer ちんぽ? That's not very moe.

>>12101957
>Is a girl with cute voice saying おちんちん moe?
Well it happened in lucky star, so yes.

>>12101949
By the way, I was wondering what could go in the middle there, and then I realized I have it right here.

>>12103195
To be honest, that was a bit of a rhetorical question. I always look for ero (or non-ero too) voice stuff based on cuteness and moe components first, and lewdness later.

I mean, what's the point if she doesn't say things like おにいちゃんだーい好き！ or お姉ちゃんに任せてね♥ ? I could just watch some porn.

>>12101949
>I wonder what you guys think about the combination of moe and ero content.
Really close to each other like moe is related to cute. The possibility of ero is what makes moe happen. The character must be a potential sexual object so that virginity/propriety can even be an issue. A girl too young to have sex with isn't moe, but can be cute (obv this is undermined by all the lolicon out there).

Anyway, my favorite erokawaii type moe thing is when a really reserved girl gives a guy the okay to have sex. That "it's okay if it's you" kind of thing. Really good when they're siblings/loli or something because it's like this huge rift is overcome.

>>12102321
Yes!

http://www.dlsite.com/maniax/work/=/product_id/RJ076653.html

Is this moe?

moe is the thing that differ real people from the 2D world
And it's also the kind of stuff that turn a show into shit.