/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>36317897
>Incidentally, Goetia as an idea may well have been referenced as early as MBAA, though I doubt he was ever meant to be a Tsukihime character.
>>36317939
>>36317967
On the note of all that, Beasts are probably a Fate-ification of a very early databook concept in reference to akuma/demons (I suppose they're localized as daemons now). There was briefly mentioned in one of the Character Material encyclopedia entries for demons the class of primordial daemons, which were of the greatest scale possible and derived from life processes that are ancient and inalienable, comparable in power to Arcueid (explicitly), but are no longer present in the world. This exact phrasing has not appeared since.

Daemons are derived from human desires/prayers/curses which they cannot help but wish for, even if in doing so they sin; Angra Mainyu also reflected this concept (especially in Hollow Ataraxia), while Kiara is asserted to have become a daemon or something infinitely close to one in CCC; lo and behold, they're associated with Beastdom. Now look at Tiamat, a corrupted primordial goddess; both she and Kiara derive a lot aesthetically and thematically from Angry Manjew. It's easy to figure how the Beast of 666 fits into that arrangement. Beasts are derived from the foundational sins of humanity which inescapably arise from their sapience and free will.

It all fits together perfectly well. Beasts are, frankly, one of the saving graces of F/GO, even if at the end of the day all of the sins they represent are just derived from the misguided motivations of past Nasuverse villains to the degree that sometimes they just ARE those villains.

>>36318001
Goetia existed, had gone nuts long, and was prepping for his grand plan long before its actual execution. It's possible Arcueid was aware of the Demon Gods somehow, given their apparently enormous influence on western magecraft and its culture.

>>36317986
>he says when Nasu had explicitly stated that Arcueid is stronger than any individual Servant
>he says when Arcueid could always destroy human civilization by stopping the Earth's rotation using her Marble Phantasm
>he says when Primate Murder would require 7 counter guardians to even restrain
>he says when Kouma Kashima and most DAAs are all supposed to be able to fight Servants on even terms
>he says when 「　」Ryougi has the power to erase and revise the world/timeline, she just never will because she's already peered into the future and determined that she never does
>he says when the initial endpoint of the setting had fuckmothering Ado Edem in it
You have no idea what you're talking about.

In the first place, it's not even that the vast majority of characters in recent Fate releases are even all that powerful or overwhelming in any real sense, it's just that they're said to do ridiculous things which contradict with prior lore, or they're given EX rank stuff which isn't even as powerful as the original EX rank stuff to the degree that the parameter no longer even seems to mean anything but "arbitrarily great." Actually, that's exactly how it's portrayed, because rather than being something that can no longer be effectively measured by the system, it's just treated as the highest grading for your RPG abilities in games like F/GO.

There's nothing special about it anymore. There's a lot of stuff that just isn't special anymore, because more recent Fate stuff goes out of its way to focus primarily on the Servants, when the Servants were originally something kept in reserve and treated with reverence.

Here's the thing. If current Fate material has left Tsukihime behind on account of its scale, it's also left the original Fate behind. F/SN has enormously more in common with Tsukihime than F/GO. Back in the day, they really weren't so divergent, and everyone believed they were outright part of the same world and chronology, and why wouldn't they be? They worked on the same mechanics and referenced the same concepts. Nasu hadn't divided all of the properties up into disparate worldlines yet, because there was absolutely no need to. You know what both Tsukihime and F/SN also share? Heartfelt drama from the perspective of a modern world daily life that has been invaded by the supernatural. That's one of the draws of both stories - their good drama and grounded, detailed characters.

And that's the real difference between contemporary Fate projects and Tsukihime. Not powerlevels, but presentation and depth.

>>34439557
Weak AAAAAAAAA