/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.6593494]

its just too hard

[Anonymous No.6593513]

>>6593494
Have you tried reading Loomis?

[Anonymous No.6593517]

>>6593513
You don't learn to draw by reading

[Anonymous No.6593522]

>>6593517
Have you tried not being a stupid cunt?

[Anonymous No.6593524]

>>6593522
Have you tried sucking less dick?

[Anonymous No.6593589]

>>6593494
>>6593517
>>6593522
>>6593524
joke threads are supposed to be fun. Why be sour cunts? :(

[Anonymous No.6593632]

>>6593494
How such a fun thing could be hard? The first thing we do as kids is to draw, because it's fun. And it's easy to have fun.

[Anonymous No.6593689]

>>6593494
anon, how many times do we have to have this thread?

[Anonymous No.6593694]

>>6593589
How about you go fuck yourself you god damn nigger retard?

[Anonymous No.6593699]

>>6593694
be nice (-:

[Anonymous No.6593721]

>>6593494
beginnerbros... it's over

[Anonymous No.6593743]

>>6593494
Just use AI bro.

[Anonymous No.6593759]

>>6593694
you're the source of all the world's problems.

[Anonymous No.6593776]

>>6593759
Name one, you dumb faggot. Or do you have too much jizz up your queer ass to think?

[Anonymous No.6593807]

Can I tell you all a literal secret?

I've put in my 10,000 hours and it never get's easier. There are no shortcuts and every painting feels like you don't know what you're doing.

[Anonymous No.6593808]

>>6593776
you're the reason why the polar bears are going extinct >:(

[Anonymous No.6593846]

>>6593808
Not the heckin polar beararinos!

[Anonymous No.6593851]

>>6593494

[Anonymous No.6593856]

>>6593689
sovl

[Anonymous No.6595046]

>>6593632
I didn't draw as a kid outside of copying things and reproducing simple memorized symbols. I've never managed to reach the point of attempting to draw anything I would want to draw, which makes it really hard to have any fun with the skill.

It astounds me that other people were seemingly able to just naturally draw anything they wanted, even as children with no real instruction. Where did their drawing process come from? What does it consist of? How do they come up with such clever symbols to simplify things like stick figures? By contrast, I would just aimlessly scribble on a page and hope it ended up looking like something, which obviously never happened.

[Anonymous No.6595085]

>>6595046
They find a tip or 2 online and draw. Kids just pick up things faster.

[Anonymous No.6595117]

>>6593494
Drawing from memory is basically impossible for and the only advice anyone ever gives out is to either draw more or just draw cubes forever.
I'll be stuck drawing shitty scribbles forever, but at least it's fun.

[Anonymous No.6595122]

>>6593689
>not posting the one where he's never happy with it and the results regress

[Anonymous No.6595128]

>>6593743
>hands behind head

[Anonymous No.6595131]

>>6593689
based

[Anonymous No.6595142]

Does anybody sometimes just forget how to draw and have to reference their own old works just to start something new? It's not like it comes after a break, but I'll just go days where I seem to be able to draw, but then I'll hit a week or two where everything i start just winds up a mess, and I resort to revisiting abandoned sketches from months/years ago because I simply can't produce anything of that quality. I wouldn't say art block, because I have plenty of ideas, but all my skill just dissipates and it can take a while to remember.

[Anonymous No.6595147]

>>6595142
>not working from ref
ngmi

[Anonymous No.6595150]

>>6595142
this happens to me when I start studying something new, like a new artist, and my old way of working suddenly falls apart and ideas compete within my brain

[Anonymous No.6595185]

>>6595147
Haha, yeah, of course this only happens to me when I'm not working from a ref

[Anonymous No.6595193]

>>6595185
>nor working from red
ngmi

[Anonymous No.6597267]

>>6593694
Bots have no soul anon you cannot hurt them with words.

[Anonymous No.6597272]

>>6593494
>its just too hard
no shit. if it was easy there'd be no point in doing it. go be a proompter if you want easy.

[Anonymous No.6597288]

>>6597267
Not a bot. I’m just a good person.

[Anonymous No.6598326]

>>6593807
but does it pass the whiskey test?
>Step 1: Finish a drawing
>Step 2: Get blackout drunk and forget you did it, and that it's even your drawing in the first place
>Step 3: Stumble upon it a few days later
If it looks good after that then it's officially, non-biased good and you dont have to torture yourself.

[Anonymous No.6598328]

>>6598326
This test doesn't work for everyone. I think my art looks amazing, but everyone tells me my art is shit.

[Anonymous No.6598355]

>>6593743
>AI still hiding hands
You can’t make this shit up lmao

[Anonymous No.6598534]

>>6593743
BUT THAT AIN'T MINE!

[Anonymous No.6598555]

>>6593494
>he's not having fun with a pencil
ngmi

[Anonymous No.6598672]

>>6598328
pyw

[Anonymous No.6600092]

>>6593494
No it's not. Drawing and improving isn't hard. 99% of what you people who make this exact kind of post are actually complaining about is either
>"I didn't instantly become asian jeans god tier"
or
>"the internal negativity from messing up so much is too hard to deal with"
Yes internal negativity sucks. But it is something you will deal with all your life and when handling literally any medium where you must improve.
Legitimately this shit is just
>draw line
>did it right
>yay
or
>draw line
>did it wrong
>check ref
>do it right
>did it wrong again
>undo and try again

[Anonymous No.6600307]

drawing is easy, but starting is way harder. I sit and stare at the wall for hours trying to come up with an excuse not to draw, but when I'm actually drawing I don't want to stop.

[Anonymous No.6600610]

>>6593689
vgh... whitepilled again

[Anonymous No.6600776]

>>6600092
>get accused of tracing
>cancelled for copying and "stealing" ideas

[Anonymous No.6601186]

I'm 30 and a beginner. Could I make decent progress in 3 years or am I fucked?

[Anonymous No.6601206]

>>6601186
I know the board tends to skew younger but don't get hung up over your age when starting something new. Nobody knows how much you'll progress in X amount of time. Maybe you make minimal improvement until year 3, or maybe you make a lot of gains this year, who knows. Just start somewhere. Or don't and then come back and ask this same question again in 3 years. The fact that you're even asking anons such a retarded question means you're insecure as fuck so you should probably work on fixing that too. Good luck.

[Anonymous No.6601235]

Does anybody find that one aspect of their art skill will seem to regress after learning something new? I'm struggling to incorporate my recent focus on drawing from pure imagination and studying anime styles with my previous ability to draw "western" cartoons from model sheets/reference. I look at cartoony shit I drew years ago and wonder how I managed to achieve that level of accuracy and appeal, because now any time I draw cartoons they look all wonky, stiff, labored, and off-model.

[Anonymous No.6601257]

>>6601235
It's a common experience, where when you assimilate new information, everything seems to collapse

[Anonymous No.6601450]

>>6593494

[Anonymous No.6601472]

skill level doesnt matter as long as the end product looks good for most people and there's many shortcuts you can take early on just by copying what other artists do
the important part is having fun, and retaining new information is easier when you're enjoying art, but it's not for everyone either and you should recognize when art might just not be for you

[Anonymous No.6601491]

>>6593743

[Anonymous No.6602089]

>>6593494
Everything worthwhile takes time and perseverance. Drawing is no different. You don't have to draw, nobody is forcing you id you really don't like it.

[Anonymous No.6602095]

>>6601472
This is the worst post that has ever been written on /ic/. Please never come back, thankyouverymuch

[Anonymous No.6602098]

>>6601472
sorry, that was really mean

[Anonymous No.6602597]

>>6593807
it got easier for me, significantly so. admittedly all I do is sketch now in comfy zone though.

[Anonymous No.6602701]

>>6601472
Not seeing why the other anons disagree with this, just do whatever gets you to draw
You don't need to engage art holistically from the get go, if you just draw boys kissing of various qualities for a year or two you'll still be lapping anyone who spent those two years stressing over fundies and doing fuck all actual drawing

[Anonymous No.6602850]

>>6602095
any post that would drive anons out of here for the sake of self improvement would be a terrible post in /ic/ but surprisingly not on any other board. except maybe /vt/

[Anonymous No.6602895]

Frustrating how I feel I cant even begin attempting to draw from imagination because this is what my heads all come out looking like.
How do I learn the proper technique? Loomis clearly does not fucking work, if I try and continue with this the face will never turn out good.

[Anonymous No.6602908]

>>6602895
the secret to drawing from imagination that nobody talks about is that people still use references, but then they use imagination to create something new out of it. After getting enough habits from doing that, then you too can be another sameface anime artist, but at least you'll be able to make some shit up on the spot

[Anonymous No.6602935]

>>6602701
>if you just draw boys kissing of various qualities for a year or two you'll still be lapping anyone who spent those two years stressing over fundies and doing fuck all actual drawing

too true. i spent 2 years stressing over fundies when i should've spent 2 years making cool shit. at least i caught myself and am starting making cool shit now.
practice mindset is awful. do projects instead.

[Anonymous No.6603174]

Have you tried having fun with your pencil?

[Anonymous No.6603346]

>>6600092
I don't know how to tell whether a line is right or wrong, because I never really know what I'm trying to accomplish with a line in the first place. I have yet to work out any real method of breaking a subject down into lines.

>>6603174
I can have fun when I'm bad at something, but not when I'm completely clueless. Going from "I have no idea what I'm even trying to do" to "I understand the basics even if I am bad at executing them" is a pretty quick and simple process with most skills, but I'm finding it impossibly difficult with drawing.

[Anonymous No.6603349]

>>6593494
just draw lmao

[Anonymous No.6603371]

>>6603346
>I don't know how to tell whether a line is right or wrong, because I never really know what I'm trying to accomplish with a line in the first place. I have yet to work out any real method of breaking a subject down into lines.
This thread was posted a week ago. How many studies have you done since then? If it's anything less than 20, you're not really even trying. Look up Feng Zhu's "Just draw", and start doing that. That's how you know "what lines are right and wrong." Or you can do figure drawing from quickposes.com

[Anonymous No.6603390]

Someone post the ''howie pets a dog" comic

[Anonymous No.6603400]

>>6603390
I want to post it, but I don't know how...

[Master Wang No.6603593]

>>6593494
You think too much, young grasshopper. You're too worried about doing it right, instead of just doing.
Overthinking leads to worry, worry leads to hesitation, hesitation leads to stagnation.
So, think less, take your failures in stride, learn from your mistakes, keep pushing forward.

[Anonymous No.6603730]

>>6593494
That's the point. Keep going

[Anonymous No.6603788]

>>6602895
You are making the classic mistake when trying to learn Loomis.
You can’t just start by drawing heads from imagination. You don’t know all the subtleties yet.
Take whatever type of heads you want to draw (capeshit or anime or whatever) and TRACE THE CONSTRUCTION over the head. Figure out where the ball and jaw fits into the drawing, draw a line for the eyes. Let the drawing TELL YOU how it is constructed. Don’t guess at it. Loomis DOES work but only if you combine the abstract idea of the method with the practical investigation of looking at how real drawings are actually constructed.
If you do this enough and you start to draw your own heads too and figure out how they’re deviating from your reference examples, you will start to get the hang of it.

[Anonymous No.6603808]

do any of you actually like drawing? if you use references, study, and work long enough on something you'll probably get it to a place where you like it, or where you're at least proud of the effort you put in.

[Anonymous No.6603825]

>>6603390
I found something even better that is so goddamn fitting

https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1681260657629887.webm

[Anonymous No.6603848]

>>6603825
Pretty good illustration of how a lot of times "I don't know how" is really just "I'm afraid I'll do something wrong" (in her case, inadvertently starting a fire).

[Anonymous No.6603851]

>>6603825
>>6603848
yeah, I'd be terrified of starting a fire too. They're in a middle of a grassy field

[Anonymous No.6603875]

"This drawing will make the next one better."

Have no goals other than getting anything on paper. Anything. Just trying is important, and every line is a lesson,and the drawings you do now are but the intervening steps to your final draft of your First Major Work,a carefully planned drawing based on all the work you did to prepare for it. So draw random stuff, and draw yourself out of your comfort zone. If you do nothing but anime girls,pose them doing things,having a strong emotion, or interacting with another. Never be discouraged by what you are drawing now,since it's just a stepping stone to the Final Draft.

[Anonymous No.6603949]

>>6597288
Lol. You’re not actually dumb enough to believe that, are you?

[Anonymous No.6603982]

>alright todays the day
>sit down at table with pen and tablet
>suddenly feel overwhelming sense of anxiety to the point where I feel sick
>quickly switch to shitposting on 4chan/playing games/doing anything else instead
>feel guilty, try to go back to drawing
>repeat for a year
once I get going I can draw just fine but its become so difficult to get to that point, I don't know why I'm like this. What's wrong with me

[Anonymous No.6603986]

>>6603982
nobody's ever gonna see what you put on paper, you have nothing to be anxious about

[Anonymous No.6604021]

>>6602701
>>6602935
I tried doing "fun" project and I did indeed have fun and quality was better than of those unfinished studies, but in the end it got little attention in drawthreads and got told to read books. It killed the momentum.

[Anonymous No.6604026]

>>6604021
That's actually sad to hear, you got crabbed out of doing something genuinely fun
Only come here to shitpost because God knows everyone else does, and the people who don't end up like you just did

[Anonymous No.6604035]

>>6604026
I was told to read a book by that anon who replies to everyone here, so I cannot say he was crabbing.

[Anonymous No.6604320]

>>6603982
ADHD

[Anonymous No.6604355]

>>6593494
Just draw.

[Anonymous No.6604374]

>>6603825
damn i want a retarded gf so bad

[Anonymous No.6604379]

>>6604355
It’s been established on /ic/ time and again that “just draw” is literally the worse thing one can do of they want to learn to draw. It’s a surefire trip to permabegdom.

[Anonymous No.6604385]

>>6604379
surely it's better to not draw at all. mm yes very true

[Anonymous No.6604389]

>>6604379
>>6604355
That's the paradox, because you need to study basics absolutely agree on that, but you need a reason for it. Say you are working on a character that uses their hands alot, you do a hand study. Someone with big ears, etc.
That's the incentive of building yourself up, yes, you need to get into discomforts and challenge yourself, but each stage needs to be accessory to other outlets in that perspective artists' life/gig. That all starts with just drawing, filling up a page and throwing it away. It's a build, and the work is yourself.

[Anonymous No.6604397]

>>6604379
sometimes I wonder if /ic/ is legitimately incapable of having fun at all
You know that drawing is supposed to be fun, originally?
If you never just draw for fun, why are you doing all this?
Like sure you're going to study a lot but at what end? And at what cost? All this is only worth it if you have things to express in the first place and you do so on a regular basis. Otherwise what the fuck are you doing

[Anonymous No.6604467]

>>6604389
YOU DON'T LEARN HOW TO DRIVE BY WATCHING CARS PASS ON THE HIGHWAY, YOU DO BY FUCKING READING THE MANUAL AND DRIVING ALONGSIDE IT

[Anonymous No.6604471]

>>6604467
I learned to drive by watching a teacher and student go over driving on youtube while mostly watching what the student was doing. I couldn’t get it no matter how many times my parents and car instructors showed me.

[Anonymous No.6604492]

>>6604467
You learn by doing and mostly improving by recognizing your mistakes. Of course, the learning curve is all time, time and yourself in which it'll take for you to see the action fluid. All things are an extension of self, the car is an object, the pencil, the way you birth a child, it's all you and your context, so pay close attention to details, and do it.

[Anonymous No.6604513]

>>6604467
I learned to drive from videogames. Are there any art videogames?

[Anonymous No.6604581]

I still don't even feel like I'm drawing. It feels more like fighting the pen to get what I want to appear. I have to be in some tranced out flow state to be able to do anything, otherwise my drawings look like chris chan's.

[Anonymous No.6604584]

>>6604467
>just learn to drive by crashing hundreds of cars over and over!

[Anonymous No.6604594]

>>6604513
I learned to draw animating stickman fights in flash

[Anonymous No.6604616]

>>6604581
There’s a magical seventh Loomis book that you’re missing, that all great artists have studied. We keep it a secret from most people, in order to eliminate competition. If you post your work, though, I might just send it to you. Post a Brigham study

[Anonymous No.6604647]

>>6604616
i cant even get past the first step which is draw a circle. on tablet its 1000x harder than on paper. By "pen" I meant tablet pen.

[Anonymous No.6604722]

>>6603848
Well that’s the problem, isn’t it? We’re being asked to ride a bike and no one’s there to make sure we don’t fall down and scrape knees. I’m not saying /ic/ needs to be /beg/‘s dad, fuck me this place RELISHES in passing the educational buck to someone, but there’s a severe lack of artistic mentors out there. Not someone who teaches, art teaching is factory line and impersonal, I mean someone who will just review your art and encourage you on your successes, and help explain what to focus on exactly.

Shit that’s what we need AI for, a robot that can encourage people to do hard things and is able to adjust to a person’s skill (assuming they’re trying). All the HUMANS in the industry are cynical jerks who had to figure it out through stubborn force of will, no wonder none of them know how to encourage people.

[Anonymous No.6605048]

>>6593494
true
i want to kms

[Anonymous No.6605058]

>>6593632
Failing is hard. Trying your hardest and having the result still look like shit is discouraging. Putting the time aside and practicing to see no improvement is not fun.

I tried Loomis's Fun with a pencil. I could not draw a circle. I am therefore a failure.

[Anonymous No.6605538]

>>6603593
Thank you, old wise Chinese master

[Anonymous No.6605547]

>>6604647
loomis literally shows his drawings starting with fucked up circles and says "dont worry you can still work with this"

[Master Wang No.6605564]

>>6605538
Please, call me, Master Wang.

[Anonymous No.6605590]

>>6605048
Tracing 3d models eh? How did you get sketchup for free? Its paid innit?

[Anonymous No.6605642]

>>6605590
web sketchup is free
I build simple mock ups and try to draw over it, adding design elements etc

[Anonymous No.6605794]

>>6603825
Even though this is supposed to be funny, I can sympathize so much lmao

[Anonymous No.6605822]

>>6604722
What you’re describing requires a moderate amount of emotional maturity, positivity, and an ability to interact with others.
Which doesn’t describe /ic/ at all. Or really anyone on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.6606108]

>tfw you can't "draw what you see".

It hurts.

[Anonymous No.6606111]

>>6606108
>ai cant see
>draws anyway
excuses, just draw

[Anonymous No.6606119]

>>6606108
Do you suffer from aphantasia?

[Anonymous No.6606143]

>>6606119
No, I can imagine stuff in my head just fine and see it visually. But trying to take something I'm looking at irl and recreate it faithfully or mostly faithfully is so fucking hard.

[Anonymous No.6606572]

>>6600776

[Anonymous No.6606635]

>>6604021
Don't take critiques from anyone in /ic/ ever. Don't base the worth of what you draw on how many replies you get here either. Do use the board to grab pdfs, videos, brushes and browse doomposts if you're bored.

[Anonymous No.6606695]

>>6593494
Always struggled drawing heads/faces it's so fucking boring, i could spend hours drawing the body improving and enjoying every minute but I cannot for the life of me draw the head without getting frustrated

[Anonymous No.6606705]

>>6595046
Keep scribbling anon you will get it. It took me about a year to go from scribbling on a page to actually being able to recreate drawings and draw w/e I want.
Still don’t understand perspective though even though that’s what I started with

[Anonymous No.6606726]

>>6593807
>There are no shortcuts
There are no shortcuts but countless of misleading paths so already not deriving too much from the right one feels like a shortcut.

[Anonymous No.6606742]

You know why I know that I will never make it? I have zero fun in copying reference. It's always complete torture. I always half ass it because it's so boring. The irony is I still learn a lot from it. Immediately after copying and then drawing from imagination I do so much better. So I literally know what the medicine is I have to take to get healthy strong skills but I can't see it as anything but poison.

[Anonymous No.6606838]

>>6593494
Just be yourself bro and keep drawing daily! :^^^^)

[Anonymous No.6606845]

>>6606838
That isn't that impressive, i didnt need that massive pile of papers to get to that level. But he found the trick yes.

Just start move to oil painting.

[Anonymous No.6606846]

>>6606742
I'm the opposite. I find copying reference to be satisfying, but when I go to draw from imagination, I'm right back at square one.

[Anonymous No.6607201]

>>6604397
I hate drawing, but I need to make some character sprites for my rpg

[Anonymous No.6607203]

>>6606846
Nta, but I find it super fun to draw from imagination(I honestly do it too much and don't draw from life or from copying refs enough).

[Anonymous No.6607210]

>>6606838
You would be surprised how little these people are actually drawing.

eg.
>drawing practically everyday for about ~1.5 hours a day

[Anonymous No.6607251]

>>6607210
>~1.5 hours a day
is this considered not a lot?

[Anonymous No.6607252]

>>6607251
>is less than 11 hours a week not a lot?
You tell me.
If you wanna git gud within the next decade, you should be doing 5 hours as a bare minimum, and even that might not be enough depending on your goals and how focused you are during those hours.

[Anonymous No.6607266]

>>6607210
people practice japanese for 3-4 hours a day and it takes them years to achieve fluency. drawing is considered magnitudes harder

[Anonymous No.6607273]

>>6607266
If fluency is considered being able to write, speak, listen and read at normal levels then maybe less than 1% of foreigners that learn japanese beyond intermediate level achieve that.

[Anonymous No.6607339]

>>6606635
Aw, did baby rightly get told he was NGMI?

[Anonymous No.6607392]

>>6607252
I would say it depends on your goal, if you put 1,5 hours a day to a hobby, it is a lot. But if you are aiming to be a professional, it probably should be closer to 5 hours

[Anonymous No.6607398]

>>6593494
Join an art club. That's what I did and it did wonders for me.
>>6607210
Drawing a ton helps for sure. I started drawing because I wanted to fall and all the good stuff back then was behind paywalls. I said fuck it and started to do it by myself.

[Anonymous No.6607399]

>>6607398
>Fall
It's the year 2023 and autocorrectors still think you want to correct the word "fap" for something completely unrelated. Fuck

[Anonymous No.6607401]

>>6607392
I would say a better philosophy to aim at is having your worst days be just 1-2 hours of drawing. If you can do 5-8 hours on days where you feel good and have the time it's good and all but doing something when you're at your worst is the actually difficult part where most humans definitely fail at.

[Anonymous No.6607404]

Have your meals,do your chores,wind down the day with some music and drawing in the darkness with only your lamp pointed at your paper. And deaw until its no longer productive.

[Anonymous No.6607417]

>>6607404
This is fucking awesome. Got more?

[Anonymous No.6607443]

>>6593494
just be yourself bro

[Anonymous No.6607444]

>>6604379
Sorry to hear that you are such a broken individual

[Anonymous No.6607452]

>>6593743
>AI doesn't understand cloth physics
dumbass computer

[Anonymous No.6607503]

>>6607444
At least I’m not buck broken, like you, nigger faggot.

[Anonymous No.6607663]

>>6593494
I feel you
And i feel like im progressing or improving at a snail’s pace before hitting a platitude and regressing

[Anonymous No.6607670]

I just looked up other people’s draw a box dissection exercise results and I wanted to kms. My results look so pathetic compared to what other people did but I keep telling myself that I never actually imagined I would reach that part of dab and actually some of my own results don’t look so bad. I just rushed some of the textures for some reason
>>6603593
You’re so right

[Anonymous No.6607935]

I hate drawing arms and legs
The just look like malformed noodles every time

[Anonymous No.6607953]

>>6607935
Perspective always seems to get away from me when I get to the legs. Making standing figures feel grounded is hard.

[Anonymous No.6608135]

How do you draw non-shit looking characters using boxes?
Boxes are way better for perspective compared to spheres when constructing the body, but the end result also looks super stiff.

[Anonymous No.6608174]

>>6608135
You practice so long that you don't need to draw the boxes to see them and then your lines will have the advantage of box precision and free flow.

[Anonymous No.6608249]

how the fuck do I learn how to draw these from imagination

[Anonymous No.6608258]

>>6593743
sorry i'm not a lazy fuck. making art and slowly getting better at it is rewarding and a feeling aifags will never understand.

[Anonymous No.6608263]

the best tip i have for you guys is to get obsessed with a character and draw them over and over. let your autism flow and you will try different things and slowly learn new things too! I always save artwork i find pretty and i try to shade and draw the eyes like in the ref (artwork) so i can try to break the mold of how i do things. I think drawing porn is a great way to get better at art too, and a great way to learn anatomy.

[Anonymous No.6608327]

>>6606838
>>6607210
That's a small ass stack for 5 years even at only 1.5 hours a day. I put out that much in 5 months with 4 hours on average

[Anonymous No.6608348]

why is gauging proportions so much harder on a tablet than on paper

[Anonymous No.6608364]

To me it's the indomitable feel of getting mogged by people who clearly have more money to buy better art supplies than me. If I had a fucking high paying job. If fucking only.

[Anonymous No.6608883]

>>6607273
drawing is still magnitudes harder than that

[Anonymous No.6608889]

>>6593743
techbros save the ngmis

[Anonymous No.6608916]

>>6608883
That's too much of an simplification. Drawing has different difficulties. What is significantly easier in drawing is that you have time. You can think and take your time with every stroke and every detail. If you lack something you can look it up. All that matters is a good result. With reading, listening and speaking you all have to instantly come up with the correct result in your brain. Even the slightest delay will hurt any of these abilities immensely.

Not to mention drawing takes our greatest and most developed sense, seeing, as the main factor. Humans naturally have great visual memory. With japanese you are literally just remembering made up bullshit by complete retards that made something as complicated and abstract as humanly possible, made a lot of it and made it all look the same so you have the greatest possible difficulty of remembering it easily.

There are also significantly more people in the world learning to draw, probably several hundred of times more, than there are japanese learners. So you can walk a path well trodden already way into advanced skills in art. Of course drawing is completely open ended so you theoretically could make it as hard as you want. Though writing and speaking in a language is also kinda open ended. Without a concrete goal it's difficult to measure how difficult it is to learn each.

[Anonymous No.6608945]

>>6593517
fouund the ngmi smoothie brain

[Anonymous No.6608959]

>>6608916
>Drawing has different difficulties.
Same with japanese sentences.
>You can think and take your time with every stroke and every detail. If you lack something you can look it up. All that matters is a good result. With reading, listening and speaking you all have to instantly come up with the correct result in your brain. Even the slightest delay will hurt any of these abilities immensely.
Anon, you can re-read things and you can re-listen to things. Only with actual real-time conversations what you're saying is the case, and that's why people take those sorts of things slowly
>There are also significantly more people in the world learning to draw, probably several hundred of times more, than there are japanese learners.
This is misleading. The vast majoirty of people "learning to draw" already have a strong knack for it at a young age. The people "learning japanese" start completely from scratch, especially if we're talking about english speakers, which are used to a language the complete opposite of japanese. There is no sense of comradery at all in drawing, whereas there is at least some in learning japanese.

In learning japanese you can pretty much start reading the content you want to read from the beginning, albeit it's a tedious and time-consuming task. In learning to draw you have to spend years practicing tirelessly before you can even attempt to draw what you want to draw, because you won't even know until then what it is you want to draw. The difference in difficulty is astronomical

[Anonymous No.6608977]

>>6608959
>Anon, you can re-read things and you can re-listen to things
Not really the point. To be considered fluent you need to be instant in your recognition. In art no matter your skill level, the benefit of having time never changes. And whether you have time to think or not makes a world of difference.
>the vast majoirty of people "learning to draw" already have a strong knack for it at a young age
Not really. Most people are absolute shitters with at best having dunning krugers. The step from drawing for fun to being conscious of the fundamentals is a massive filter. Also it's buffing that you are trying to make a point that makes learning to draw appear easier than it is even though you're arguing for the opposite. That makes no sense even if you wanted to make a point against comradery in art.
>There is no sense of comradery at all in drawing
Where is the japanese learning board? You have only very few communities learning japanese on the internet and they are small. With art you have tons. And it isn't limited to that. The learning resources for art are probably 1000 times more.
>In learning japanese you can pretty much start reading the content you want to read from the beginning
Irrelevant to the discussion of difficulty. Your goal is to read in a quick enjoyable fashion and catch the nuances, it stays just as hard. Reading like shit and drawing like shit and the goal to be better is the exact same.
>you have to spend years practicing tirelessly before you can even attempt to draw what you want to draw, because you won't even know until then what it is you want to draw
You are talking about a variable goalpost. This happens with every skill. With japanese you may be dissatisfied with fluency alone and may want to reach native levels which includes cultural knowledge so you have to live in japan for many years, making expenses and stress be on another stratosphere. Like I said, without a concrete goal for both we can endlessly go higher in difficulty.

[Anonymous No.6608988]

>>6607417
Thanks. I haunt threads around here, posting episodes of the strip I have here,and been often criticized for its crampt,ill conceived,and could have been improved in a dozen ways. All true,however, my defense has been that it was a product of pure accident. Instead of a newspaper sized strip that was constructed of pre processed chunks of drawings assembled into comic panels,so I could produce a weekly update in my spare time from my night crew supermarket job. Then,I started a relationship with a single mother and her problems dragged me away from my workstation, and I was drawing in pencil, so I couldn't do that in waiting rooms without stuff smudging before it gets to the scanner. When I realized that this was my life now,being supportive in waiting rooms, and I had black pens and a new black hardbound sketchbook.

And,on the first page, now about to break its virgin whiteness with my invasive pen,I at random,drew a demon head. And thought about what it could be in J___'s world,and a story took shape. I have made one page MidAdventure Snapshots,and present a panel of an adventure in progress, and try to pack the scene with details a savvy and devoted reader of mine could infer from the situation that the characters are in. But the first page was interesting enough to prompt a continuation of the idea the first suggested. And then a third,and a fourth. And at 181 strips,I am about two thirds through,since the Big Villain has shown up and I was set to barrel down to an end. But Covid happened, and I lost the domain name and the server rental,struggling with having it for 10 weeks but only wrestling 2 weeks of unemployment money from my state. I am now grinding penciling, preparing for the Full Color Super Rendering treatment I will give the raw art I churn out,and when I get 50 strips under my belt,I will shop it around, and get enough money to leave the job and concentrate on producing the strip.
The project, the dream.

[Anonymous No.6608991]

>>6608977
>Not really the point. To be considered fluent you need to be instant in your recognition. In art no matter your skill level, the benefit of having time never changes. And whether you have time to think or not makes a world of difference.
Even "fluent" native Japanese people do not instantly recognise new kanji they've never seen before. I guess nobody is fluent in your eye. Same goes for english
> Also it's buffing that you are trying to make a point that makes learning to draw appear easier than it is even though you're arguing for the opposite. That makes no sense even if you wanted to make a point against comradery in art.
No, I'm arguing it's harder for the average person who doesn't have a knack for it from the beginning
>Where is the japanese learning board?
The several DJT threads are probably about as active as the combined art critic threads on here
>You have only very few communities learning japanese on the internet and they are small. With art you have tons. And it isn't limited to that. The learning resources for art are probably 1000 times more.
Because art is something that is astronomically larger than learning japanese, Those small japanese learning communities have all the info you need
>In learning japanese you can pretty much start reading the content you want to read from the beginning
>Irrelevant to the discussion of difficulty. Your goal is to read in a quick enjoyable fashion and catch the nuances, it stays just as hard. Reading like shit and drawing like shit and the goal to be better is the exact same.
How is this irrelevant??? By doing the things you're MOTIVATED to do right from the get-go, the job becomes tenfold easier.

Nowhere do you ever see shit like pic related in the community lmao. Everyone who "studies" japanese never learns anything

[Anonymous No.6609010]

>>6608991
>Even "fluent" native Japanese people do not instantly recognise new kanji
Disingenuous misinterpretation of what was meant just so you could deny another point.
>No, I'm arguing it's harder for the average person who doesn't have a knack for it from the beginning
I still don't get the point. Both groups you are speaking about are massively larger than any group of japanese learner still.
>The several DJT threads are probably about as active as the combined art critic threads on here
You say it like you visited these threads which makes you completely disingenuous. The /int/ DJT is very dead. The /jp/ one is pure shitposting and this is common knowledge for anyone who knows about the DJT threads. On /ic/ the discussion is more variable and much better. The board in general is one of the better ones on this site despite people saying it's a hellish place. Also there are drawing threads on all big boards just to completely destroy the point you're trying to make.
>Because art is something that is astronomically larger than learning japanese
Again, no single person will learn everything each has to offer. Programming is astronomically larger than art in terms of pure knowledge. I still wouldn't default to saying it is harder than learning to draw. It's different.
>Those small japanese learning communities have all the info you need
Completely irrelevant even if it was true. Just being able to have the same information from 100 different experts like you get in art is immensely helpful. There is a reason a large chunk of /ic/ discussion is just discussing the most helpful resources. That's a pure luxury and it's a massive difference to talk about 30 different things in every sub-skill versus like 5 different things total.
>By doing the things you're MOTIVATED to do right from the get-go, the job becomes tenfold easier.
And you can't draw from the beginning, why? Just of impossibly high self induced standards. You can read and draw even if you're bad.