Knowing anatomy (in depth) is bullshit?

[Anonymous No.4830835]

So I want to end this discussion once and for all because it seems to be a recurring question here

So of course we have the classic example of Proko who is supposedly a master of anatomy, and we've all seen the infamous
kangaroo he draws.

Left pic is from a guy who literally has a 6 hour lecture on how to draw eyes. and YEAH just the fucking eyes. He draws detailed anatomy of arms hands the human body, and yes he knows the loomis method etc.. and not to mention he's been doing it for 45 years till he supposedly lost all his hair.

Here on the right we have a guy who most likely just copied from artists he liked from what I heard and went from complete /beg to pic on the right in 7 years.

I'm starting to think this whole anatomy shenanigans is all a bunch of balony and just a money making scheme for art teachers at this point.

Lets have a detailed discussion on this matter and come to a final resolution once and for all.

[Anonymous No.4830839]

If you didn't need anatomy why are there so many anatomy books out there recommended by pros?

[Anonymous No.4830843]

WOW you need perfect anatomy to draw a semi realism faceshot?!?!?
Shut the FUCK UP you need at least a basic understanding of proportions to even create something palpable for normalfags.
Stop making this thread and draw nigger. Anatomy is not that bad

[Anonymous No.4830844]

>>4830839
cause they're all trying to drag you down so they won't face competition.

[Anonymous No.4830848]

You first set yourself a goal (what you would consider making it), and then you should be able to gauge how much anatomy knowledge is required to accomplish it.
is the extent of your art career just doing coom comissions on twitter? (of course you do) then yeah, you just need basic knowledge of anatomy and mostly focus on how to draw appealing tits and ass and faces and how to attach them on a bog standard anime trunk.

[Anonymous No.4830853]

>>4830844
Wait, you actually think that? There are 4 replies and 4 posters in this thread.

gtfo of your conspiracy-minded "suspicious of everything"-ass mindset and start grinding.

[Anonymous No.4830855]

A lot of people get too comfortable in something and then refuse to move on. Take what you need and then go. You'll see academic students on Instagram where they are already incredibly competent in drawing the figure, their posts are all about the figure and they're still taking figure drawing classes and I always wonder if they're ever going to do anything with it, some move on and create great things, many others stay.

[Anonymous No.4830861]

>>4830853
the evidence is there though. Ask vilppu, Proko, the bald headed guy in OP, Clara Lieu from artprof, even Jeff fucking Watts, and I assure you that they wouldn't be able to draw an appealing anime character that seems to be all the hype on social media these days.

Not that drawing an appealing anime character makes you a great artist, but as long as it makes you money, and you're happy. Just imagine mindlessly studying anatomy for 45 years just to end up like that dude.

[Anonymous No.4830864]

>>4830853
>grinding
Nobody fell for this r-right?

[Anonymous No.4830866]

>>4830848
If it’s so easy how come so few can actually do it?

[Anonymous No.4830870]

>>4830861
The evidence isn't there, you're being delusional. You don't need to be anal about anatomy (Paul Richer), but at least getting to the basic level that Hogarth and Bridgman are at is necessary.

[Anonymous No.4830871]

>>4830861
No one ever said mastering anatomy was required for you to make money or get Twitter engagement.
you can be complete garbage at art and still accolplish those goals.
Most artists you mentioned put in the time to study anatomy because they have great appreciation for the human form and because they want to make art they think is great.

[Anonymous No.4830873]

>>4830866
>so few
????

[Anonymous No.4830880]

>>4830870
speaking of Paul Richer... Isn't it kinda uncannily ironic how all these masters of anatomy fail at drawing faces?

[Anonymous No.4830885]

>>4830848

This.
There is plenty of people on /ic like OP.
They are trying to improve by what others recommend. And they obviousky still don't realize every one has it's individual way of approaching to learning (whatever the fuck you want to learn in life).
They are ships who try to find "that ONE RIGHT, PERFECT approach to learning", the most beneficial one.
Because they don't find ANY joy in all this.
They don't have a plan like >>4830848 wrote, which is essential. Without that plan, what you even want to accomplish, you can just mindlessly study forever and ever. If you will draw portraits for the last of your life time, OP, then spend 10, 20 or even 100 hours just on learning to draw a damn eye. But if you will never do any portrait or anything involving eyes (let's say you will do industrial design for the rest of your life), then spen 15 min to lewrn to draw an eye and that will be enough for you.

The main problem of /ic is presented daily. And that is, again, that you guys don't know what you even want to do. You just hope that after learning all that alLoomis, Hoghart, Bammes, Villpu, Mattesi, Hampton,... you will magically find your passion, your interest. But that won't happen. You will just have a knowledge of which some (or even most) of it you will never even need.

That's why threads like this. Because you know you might be wasting your time if you are reading 100 pages of book just on eyes and watching 300 hour video just on eyes.

"Just draw!".
But the problem is that you don't know what you want to draw, what you enjoy, right? :)

[Anonymous No.4830956]

Massive cope thread for nmgis striving for mediocrity

[Anonymous No.4830979]

>>4830835
In art aesthetics always trumps accuracy

[Anonymous No.4830982]

>>4830835
Why do you all desire so desperately to be mediocre. Why do you base your standards on know-nothing normalfag taste? You don't have any personal standards, any thoughts of your own? You let the mob decide what you're going to create?

Here's the truth. You don't need any anatomy to make good art. Any. You don't even need to draw people to make good art, so it follows you don't need anatomy in every case at the very least.
But if you're drawing people, anatomy will literally only help you. Whatever anatomy knowledge the artist on the right had, it only helped him. And he wouldn't have been hurt by MORE anatomy knowledge. As long as you know what to do with it creatively, anatomy is just another tool. It's just knowledge. Should you obsessively learn every medical detail of every deep muscle? No. What idiot ever convinced you that art really is about having a surgeon's understanding of the body?

But maybe learn the pelvis, and the rib cage. Learn their structure. This will instantly catapult you above every lazy hack fuck who never bothers to, and draws deformed potatoes in their place, wondering why they can never reach the heights of their art heroes. You don't want that? You think that isn't worth a little struggle now, so you'll be great later?

Okay, so be fucking mediocre then. Nobody's stopping you.

[Anonymous No.4830991]

>>4830956
>thread

This entire board is cope for ngmis striving for mediocrity

[Anonymous No.4831099]

>>4830835
The problem with the left isn't anatomy, and you have no reason to think the artist on the right isn't educated in anatomy.

Stop trying to excuse your own laziness and bad habits or you will stagnate.

[Anonymous No.4831303]

>>4830835
I guess it depends what you mean by 'in-depth.' I mean I don't really know the name of all of the muscles, bones, and etc,. but I know how where things go and how to draw them. So my working knowledge of it does lend itself to whatever I decide to draw.

I think, also, it's not like artists in Japan don't know anatomy. It's just that the proportions are a bit different which is why the American artists may have trouble doing the other style.

[Anonymous No.4831331]

>>4830844
>won't face
i see what you did there

[Anonymous No.4831350]

>>4831099
>you have no reason to think the artist on the right isn't educated in anatomy.
Exactly this

[Anonymous No.4831355]

>>4830870
>basic level
>Bridgman
You Fucking Nani?

[Anonymous No.4831374]

>>4830991
>t. crab

[Anonymous No.4831384]

>>4830835
>thinks anatomy learning is a money-making scam
>you can basically pirate all the information or get it for free

Anon, I think it’s very hard to have an in depth discussion on this, as it seems that you’re critically retarded

[Anonymous No.4831405]

>>4830835
do you even bammes?

[Anonymous No.4831412]

>>4830835
OP is baiting or an idiot but probably both. The artist on the right studied anatomy.

[Anonymous No.4831416]

>>4831412
nuuuu i just want to draw animu

[Anonymous No.4831432]

>>4830835
The reality is in depth understanding is less important than knowing the form, which you can learn in a few days to weeks. Art is entirely based on your visual memory, the idea that you can "understand" a visuals is counterintuitive.

[Anonymous No.4831455]

>>4831412
That book is awesome, btw. Simple, easy to reference, features a ton of action poses, and is good for the weebs.

You can find it on the archive thread. It's called Kim Rockhee's Anatomy or something like that. You can also probably find it on libgen.

[Anonymous No.4831459]

>>4830880
he just didnt draw very pretty in general

[Anonymous No.4831460]

>>4830880
nothing really wrong with that face.
not everything is a cutesie anime shit show

[Anonymous No.4831465]

>>4830861
>Ask vilppu
>he wouldn't be able to draw an appealing anime character that seems to be all the hype on social media these days
Well, I think he probably could

[Anonymous No.4831488]

I came here to post this pic for a redline when I saw this thread. I watched a handful of Proko torso videos (pecs, obliques, shoulders, robo bean practice) and drew these from imagination today. I will continue to practice new and odd angles, but I don’t see use in getting into the weeds with anatomy. These aren’t perfect but if I needed to move forward with an art project that showcased anatomy I would be fairly confident, and this is after about 12-18 hours of study.

[Anonymous No.4831500]

>>4830982
thanks this really made sense

[Anonymous No.4831523]

>>4831412
that's not artist in OP but ok.

[Anonymous No.4831548]

>[HEADCANON]
See?

[Anonymous No.4831553]

>>4830982
thank you.

[Anonymous No.4831642]

>>4830848
>>4830982
>>4830885
GMI

[Anonymous No.4831669]

>>4831455
Can't find it, can any source the actual name of this book

[Anonymous No.4831686]

>>4830982
This post should be copy pasted into every thread that complains about anatomy, Loomis, etc.

[Anonymous No.4831755]

the only problem with anatomy in art is when you don't understand that design is more important that muscles. DESIGN your anatomical shapes, don't mindlessly draw bones and muscles.

[Anonymous No.4831899]

>>4831755
Those are some genuinely beautiful drawings, are they Rey Bustos?

[Anonymous No.4831908]

>>4831455
>>4831669
it is called "rock-he kim anatomy drawing class"

[Anonymous No.4831915]

>>4830848
This. You have to know your goal and then get the level of anatomy necessary to reach said goal. Now it is always good to have the most advanced level of anatomical knowledge possible because that gives you a lot of flexibility, but it is also important to understand that your goal might not require insane realistic anatomy and that's totally fine.

Don't spend months going over the most insane anatomical shit if your goal doesn't demand it. Focus on the aspects you wanna focus on. Art is made of so many aspects. No one is perfect at all of them.

Some have great anatomy but don't care about composition
Some have great color theory but don't care about anatomy
Some have great perspective but don't care about anything else

Focus

[Anonymous No.4831940]

>>4831669
search "rockhe kim anatomy drawing class pdf" on google, it'll be the 2nd link down.

[Anonymous No.4831953]

>>4831755
The problem with anatomy is that artists don't spend nearly the same effort studying fat

[Anonymous No.4831969]

>>4831412
has this been translated?

[Anonymous No.4831971]

>>4831969
Doesn't look like it but I found it on cgpeers

[Anonymous No.4831979]

>>4831755
>"hmm yes I see my child"

[Anonymous No.4831990]

>>4831979
They say your back forms the appearance of a demon when you become the strongest man in the world

[Anonymous No.4832051]

>>4831979
I spit my coffee you asshole

[Anonymous No.4832055]

>>4831979
nice

[Anonymous No.4832125]

>>4831899
i posted that image as an example of misapplied anatomy, a drawing without sense of design, lol.

[Anonymous No.4832144]

>>4830835

90% is just proportions and proper symmetry. You go very far just by knowing that. I don't think beginners need to start out by learning how muscles work in incredible detail.

Detailed anatomy is good for more advanced stuff. Look at how Frank Frazetta communicates muscle forms for example.

[Anonymous No.4832149]

>>4831488
>if I needed to move forward with an art project that showcased anatomy I would be fairly confident
What would you be confident about?

[Anonymous No.4832158]

>>4831755
>>4831979
Ok, for real what the fuck is this supposed to be? It doesn't look like any abs I've ever seen, maybe skin flabs on an obese 90 year old lady who has grease between the folds.

[Anonymous No.4832186]

>>4832158
it's clearly the faint outlines of the loomis face anon.

[Anonymous No.4832254]

>>4830861
Who the fuck said you need strong anatomy to make money? It literally just helps you draw better, they draw that shit because they like doing it and they make money from it. That's literally what you're saying is the goal.

[Anonymous No.4832354]

>>4831755
>but it isn't realistic
>but it isn't appealing
>but it isn't anatomically plausible
>but i don't like it
Artchads amongst chads, anon.

[Anonymous No.4832389]

>>4831755
That's practice work Anon, and really good practice work at that. I'm sure if that artist was commissioned to illustrate an ad they'd put more focus on design, and they'd have tons more control since they've studied every muscle in grotesque detail.

[Anonymous No.4832419]

>>4830835
Why do you think there are people who teach basketball and people who play in the NBA

[Anonymous No.4832480]

>>4832419
Cause the teachers are all talentless hacks like Proko and Marshall, while the players actually have that IT factor that when backed up with skill from practicing enough makes them outliers; extraordinary, and great.

[Anonymous No.4833301]

>>4832480
Stop talking like this.

[Anonymous No.4834011]

>>4830835
only begs questions any of the fundies

[Anonymous No.4834050]

>>4831979
Cant unsee

[Anonymous No.4834119]

>>4832480
>IT factor
Kys sports tranny

[Anonymous No.4835356]

>>4831686

[Anonymous No.4835432]

>>4831355
bridgman's anatomy has good form but it's not hyperrealistic. When you see a bridgman arm you immediately know it's a bridgman arm or study of one because of how he draws

[Anonymous No.4835451]

>>4832354
but you posted exaggerated proportions, not blobby unappealing shapes

[Anonymous No.4835552]

>>4831412
>iPad Pro
Everytime. Guess I'll have to save for one soon.

[Anonymous No.4835879]

>>4830835
Left is pencil on paper, right is computer.

[Anonymous No.4835934]

>>4831940
late response, but thanks anon

[Anonymous No.4835947]

>>4831465
Of course he could what a ridiculous statement

[Anonymous No.4835967]

>>4830835
Fuck off /asg/tard.

[Anonymous No.4835970]

>>4830835
That image on the left reminds me of illashit but more detailed

[Anonymous No.4835980]

>>4830982
Fucking based. totally btfo OP ass

[Anonymous No.4836375]

I graduated on traditional Academy of Fine Arts at printmaking department. We had anatomy class for a semester, which no student actually remembers. The professor was a doctor of medicine and we had to learn by heart information which is of no use for an artist.

What is important is live model drawing, when you stare at naked people and faces long enough, it kinda builds into your unconsciousness.
Second important thing is having sense on how objects appear in space. It may sound as a pretty basic advice, but learning how to draw is more of a building specific logic in your mind than it is about "how to draw an eye step by step in this and this perspective".
Anyways, you don't really draw objects, you draw impression of them since drawing isn't really 3D - so the longer you stare and absorb, the impression in your head will be more "realistic" for you to draw.
Third most important thing regarding anatomy is ability to recognize your own mistakes when doing a live model drawing or still life. I know people who have been drawing and painting every day as long as I did and they still suck, since they never took time process mentally how things actually look in space.
It is not a mechanical process (that's why I am not a fan of learning the craft through books, many of them are based on logical principles and overcomplicate it) as it is mental process and people who are pretty good at it are usually good at mentally visualising and remembering using the drawing logic.

tl;dr - Just do line work live models, still life and autoportraits (don't use photographs) until you get them right.

Image related is my drawing from imagination after drawing live models for four years.

[Anonymous No.4836420]

>>4836375
Pic related makes it clear that you need to study anatomy more.

[Anonymous No.4836455]

>>4836420
Yeah, I graduated two years ago and didn't do a single study drawing since then, mostly because this kind of deformed figurative art works for me. My point was that people progress way faster by doing live model and still life studies instead of using how-to step by step book or a course without ever observing how things look in nature, since it is more than just copying shapes and then remembering them.

[Anonymous No.4836466]

>>4836420

Was just about to wrote that.

>"Hey guys, fuck instructional books, just draw from life. Pic related is what i learned in 4 years from drawing from life
>posts drawing that clearly says i suck at proportions and anatomy

Books are just as important as drawing from life and >>4836375 is pure proof for that. This guys lacks understanding which you get trough books and then APPLY that knowledge when drawing from life.

[Anonymous No.4836557]

>>4831953
Do you know the name of that one book on drawing fat people that gets posted? It has a fat middle aged woman on the cover

[Anonymous No.4836605]

I don't feel the need to describe to you what is correct and what isn't regarding my work, as it is obviously not anatomically correct, nor was it my intent.
It serves more as a reference to what I have said on developing a set of impressions in your head than using canonical principles from Loomis or mindlessly redrawing someones work instead of studying it, since it will take a long time for someone just starting out and drain him/her really fast like it did to me.
Croquis/speed sketching from life is also a very good practice for people who want to learn to draw according to their memory, besides live model study drawings.

Btw here is an another drawing from imagination.

[Anonymous No.4836661]

>>4831990
why the fuck does he have a six pack on his back

[Anonymous No.4838249]

>>4831755
>I'll just make it wobbly, that's more artistic!

[Anonymous No.4838273]

>>4836375
Uuhh... no? You can find books boring and counterintuitive, but that's not the same for everyone. Yeah, drawing from life is important, but with a book you can really take your time and use your brain to figure out solutions, the book is not gonna get tired. But the thing is, you have to actually not be ADHD to go trough an entire book and not quit.

[Anonymous No.4838284]

>>4832186
>mfw this thread

[Anonymous No.4838294]

Did u kno Jack "King" Kirby knew anatomy better than most DOCTORS?!

[Anonymous No.4838313]

>>4836661
Because Baki

[Anonymous No.4838395]

>>4830839
It's for the same reason there's so many self-help books and internet guitar teachers, to make money and get more exposure to their brand by teaching.

[Anonymous No.4838499]

>>4838395
This is sadly true. I read an interview once where a couple of authors lamented that their "how to write books" sell much, much better than their novels.

[Anonymous No.4838502]

>>4838499
So what you’re sayin is, instead of actually drawing coom, I can maximize profits by TEACHING how to draw coom?

[Anonymous No.4838590]

>>4831455
>>4831908
>>4831940

Does the Rockhe Kim book exist in English?