Patreon Loses Lawsuit

[Anonymous No.4760677]

The mad lad did it.

[Anonymous No.4760680]

>>4760677
>Patreon has lost a lawsuit they filed against fans of Owen Benjamin, a comedian kicked off the platform due to hate speech concerns, and now will have to pay millions in arbitration fees.

>Last year, Owen Benjamin was kicked off of Patreon for violating their terms on “hate speech.” Benjamin then encouraged his fans to sue the site, given they had participated in, in legal terms, “tortious interference with a business relationship.”

[Anonymous No.4760684]

>>4760680
>Patreon’s terms included language that allowed any users of the plaltform to litigate their case individually under California’s JAMS arbitration scheme.

>Under California law, Patreon would have to pay the arbitration fees up front, as each user would have to be dealt with on a one to one basis. These fees range from a few thousand dollars to over ten thousand dollars per case. It is unclear how many users intended to sue the platform.

>However, Patreon then changed its Terms of Service in an attempt to stop this from happening after the claims were filed:

>"You may not bring a claim against us for suspending or terminating another person’s account, and you agree you will not bring such a claim. If you try to bring such a claim, you are responsible for the damages caused, including attorneys fees and costs."

[Anonymous No.4760687]

>>4760684
>Patreon then sued Benjamin’s backers for attempting to receive arbitration, and filed for a preliminary injunction to stop this from happening. However, earlier this month, the judge in the case ruled against them, noting that their changes of the Terms of Service was tantamount to them changing the rules “in the middle of the game.”

>The formal judgement was revealed on Wednesday, with the ruling being solidly based on previous California legal findings. Patreon will now have to go through arbitration with each of the fans, and will not be able to recoup any of the fees, even if they win the individual cases.

[Anonymous No.4760692]

>>4760677
who still uses Patreon?

[Anonymous No.4760694]

>>4760677

[Anonymous No.4760707]

>>4760677
I feel bad for people who rely on patreon for their income in case there are negative changes coming down the pipeline but I feel that patreon deserves this. They aren’t the government, it is not their burden to determine what is or isn’t hate speech. All that anyone wanted out of patreon was a way to send their own money to people they like. That’s all they need to do.

[Anonymous No.4760727]

>>4760707
>it is not their burden to determine what is or isn’t hate speech
I agree with this sentiment, but that's not what this case is about. It's more of a consumer rights issue, with Patreon trying to change their TOS in bad faith. They deserved this quick and furious slapdown.

[Anonymous No.4760732]

>>4760707
>hate speech
Wait, I thought this was about porn for us.
I cvouldn't give a shit about the the "hate speech" thing, if someone is racist they kinda deserve social judgement.

[Anonymous No.4760738]

>>4760732
forgot to add, Patreon getting their asses handled is still nice tho.
They were so full of themselves, now they're broke.

[Anonymous No.4760739]

>>4760677
If patreon doesn’t shutdown from then, then the fees for creators will increase by a good chunk.

[Anonymous No.4760742]

>>4760732
Go back

But it’s nice to see those seething fags put in their place for not letting us draw loli in peace

[Anonymous No.4760760]

>>4760732
>>4760742
Ofc it was about speech, if it was anything else they would definitely win.

[Anonymous No.4760877]

>>4760677
Finally. Fuck patreon.

[Anonymous No.4760880]

>>4760677
Some good news at least

[Anonymous No.4760884]

In other news: Man murders every OnlyFans subscriber

[Anonymous No.4760908]

>>4760677
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

EAT FUCKING SHIT AND DIE POOPTREON!!!!

[Anonymous No.4760997]

>>4760677

Unequivocally based and litigious-pilled.

[TheGame No.4761004]

This is much bigger than patreon, could have implications for content creators on many different platforms like youtube, twitch, etc.

Feels like a victory, but could be a single amendment to TOS away from being a non issue in future cases.

Regardless, looks like Patreon is FUCKED big time on this one.

[Anonymous No.4761039]

>>4760732
>I cvouldn't give a shit about the the "hate speech" thing, if someone is racist they kinda deserve social judgement.

u kinda deserve the rope too, but idk teehee, we'll see

[Anonymous No.4761051]

>>4760732
Don't you know that everything white people do is racist? This is unironically the current narrative

[Anonymous No.4761117]

>>4760707
>it is not their burden to determine what is or isn’t hate speech
What a retarded thing to say. It is absolutely their right to determine what is considered "hate speech" on their own platform.

[Anonymous No.4761128]

>>4760732
we all like to see shitty people get punished, but the problem is that everyone draws a line in the sand in a different place when they define racism. Broadening a category just so you can add someone you hate doesn't really do anyone any good.

Incidentally, some of OB's stuff is funny, and some of it is cringey/edgy, but hey, he's a comedian afterall.

[Anonymous No.4761156]

>>4760677
I don't get why artists keep using patreon.
The fact that they track everything you do on the internet should have been a MASSIVE red flag.

[Anonymous No.4761165]

>>4761156
Well it could be used for fucking anything if you just get donations on Patreon and do bad things on the side.

Although they straight up tolerate literal Anifa terrorists in there.

[Anonymous No.4761179]

>>4760677
>>4760680
>>4760684
>>4760687
Good.

[Anonymous No.4761205]

>>4760727
This. And the judge smacked them down, as he should have. And, it will be appealed. Patreon would be morons to not fight this, they're going to go BK in arbitration.

[Anonymous No.4761221]

>>4760692
A lot of people. Last time I looked it was around 100,000 creators on there. Not YouTube numbers, but still significant.

[Anonymous No.4761373]

>>4761117
>What a retarded thing to say. It is absolutely their right to determine what is considered "hate speech" on their own platform.

California law appears to disagree and you need to dilate.

[Anonymous No.4761402]

should I abandon ship to pixiv fanbox, subscribestar, or both?

[Anonymous No.4761403]

>>4760687
>>4760684
>>4760680
based

[Anonymous No.4761417]

>inb4 mods delete thread again

[Anonymous No.4762029]

>>4761417
JUST WHAT ARE YOU IMPLYING YOU DISGUSTING WHORE

Jannies are based. have always been based. fuck of to tumblr

[Anonymous No.4762051]

>>4760732
>i couldn't give a shit about hate speech
>"Ok, so you do consent to hate speech? You must be a racist bigot homophobe."
Aaaaand you're banned because of subjectively-perceived-through-social-hysteria hate speech.
Basically, everything can be labeled as hate speech by anyone.
Does it offend you? It's hate speech.
Does it put you in any negative light even when it's fair criticism or truthful? It's hate speech.
Does it confirm that you're a criminal and deserve to get arrested? It's hate speech.

And for the last godforsaken time:
Porn isn't protected by the 1st. So, anyone can decide what they want or not want on their site.
Finally get it through your hollow skull, lolinigger.

[Anonymous No.4762062]

What does this mean for coomer artists?

[Anonymous No.4762080]

>>4761221
Technically is YouTube numbers because they control the payments of the popaltscience and political Toobers, like Kurz, CGP and more.

[Anonymous No.4762081]

>>4762062
Nothing. Just don't break the rules.

[Anonymous No.4762085]

>>4762062
There's a nontrivial chance patreon could go bankrupt so the coomers will have to be ready to switch platforms

[Anonymous No.4762108]

>>4760732
Good thing your brand of “social judgment” is all hot air and S O Y.

[Anonymous No.4762122]

what did he do to get banned exactly

[Anonymous No.4762142]

>>4762051
God I wish that were me.

[Anonymous No.4762166]

>>4761051
Well, yeah they do.

[Anonymous No.4762181]

>>4760732
Porn is hate speech against asexuals and poor women who don't want to be objectified, you deserve the gulag.

[Anonymous No.4762187]

>>4762181

FREEEZIEEEEPPOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

[Anonymous No.4762240]

>>4762181
You see Freeza, you're not dealing with the average Porn Artist anymore: I, AM A SUPER PORN ARTIST! That's right Freeza, I've risen beyond mere Sakimichans and Shadmans, and into the realm of legend - the legend that you fear, the legend known throughout the entire internet as the most powerful Porn Artist to ever exist - I have become a HARDCORE LOLI PORN ARTIST

[Anonymous No.4762259]

>>4761156
monopoly.
no other alternatives that arent furry sites

[Anonymous No.4762305]

>>4762062
>What does this mean for coomer artists?
You retards are just precious, you don't even understand how easy you have it. This means nothing for you. People will bend themselves backwards to keep paying for porn, at best it will be a minor inconvenience of getting the 100k addicted simps to register to the next paypig platform. The people who should be concerned are those making barely enough to get by with content that isn't digital crack cocaine, because if something like Patreon goes down they will lose most of their income and will have to start over.

[Anonymous No.4762319]

>>4762305
Fucking this, coomers have so many alternatives to use like subscribestar, onlyfans, and probably fanbox. People who aren’t coomers or some pedo/political nut won’t sites like those. Gumroad is pretty much the only option left.

[Anonymous No.4762340]

>>4762240
frieza did nothing wrong though

[Anonymous No.4762406]

>>4762340
Correct, but Cooler was Cooler

[Anonymous No.4762423]

>>4762406
What are the odds you're mexican?

[Anonymous No.4762449]

I don't care about who patreon banned at all, but god I they sure deserve some deep throating for that TOS fuckery alone.

[Anonymous No.4762469]

>>4760732
L O L fuck off back to tumblr

[Anonymous No.4762471]

>>4762423
None, I'm just a shitposting Australian
That's why it took forever for me to reply to you; the internet is just so shit that it only just loaded

[Anonymous No.4762494]

>>4762471
>australian db shitposter
Wait, we had this exact convo on another board

[Anonymous No.4762517]

>>4762494
Sorry to disappoint you, but that would have been someone else. I'm pretty sure I've not shitposted about db before, plus almost all Ausfags are shitposters and anime is pretty popular here, so there are plenty of people it could have been

[Anonymous No.4762524]

>>4762517
I didn't know it was that bad down there holy fuck

[Anonymous No.4762633]

>>4761117
You retards always use this argument of "they can decide what they allow in their platform".
Yeah, they can decide what to allow in their platform. Then they allow something you don't like and then you're quick to brand them as a sketchy cesspool of garbage like Gab, BitChute or SuscribeStar. Then suddenly they can't allow what they want and have to abide to YOUR retarded standards about what's acceptable to publish or else you send death threats to them.

[Anonymous No.4762916]

>>4760677
>This entire thread is full of retards
You guys know all they have to do is move their HQ out of Cali and change their TOS right?
If anything this decision is gonna make things worse for patreon users, thats if this thing doesn't get appealed.
I expect other websites will make changes further shielding themselves from lawsuits.

[Anonymous No.4762920]

>>4762633
>like Gab
I like how the owner went on a rant about how the US should ban all porn for being a public health hazard destroying society.

[Anonymous No.4762946]

>>4762916
>You guys know all they have to do is move their HQ out of Cali and change their TOS right?

The entire point of the judge's ruling is that Patreon *can't* apply their new TOS retroactively. These patrons were playing by Patreon's own rules, so now Patreon has to make good on their end. They cannot escape this by moving to another state or changing their name.
This is one of the few times I've seen the people successfully "DDOS" the legal system against corporations, rather than the other way around.

[Anonymous No.4762955]

>>4762633
You can't blame people for not wanting to associate with those whose idea of free speech is extreme lowbrow American conservatism or whose idea of privacy is breaking the law unpunished.
Literally every single alternative to mainstream cancer is immediately ruined by the most undesirable people before any community or environment can be built on it, and if you keep using it you are inevitably branded no matter what. Is it stupid? Yes, but do you really want to get into trouble for no fucking reason? That's why people give in and keep using shit like Twitter. The alternatives do nothing to curate their community. The idea would be to kick people who misuse their freedom out if they are disruptive, but that goes against the retarded American idea of protecting people's speech. It's a lose-lose situation if you advertise yourself as a "freedom" service.
This shit looks almost like a psyop where these guys are sent to do the most damage as possible as soon as possible. Or maybe people just suck and having just a mirror of the shit they claim to hate is exactly what they want.
>>4762920
That sounds like he's taking out the trash but I doubt he'd get anything but lip service, the righties love porn just as much as the lefties.

[Anonymous No.4762960]

>>4762955
I agree with you desu, the sensible alternative to retarded community guidlines isn't no community guidelines whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.4762961]

>>4762946
>The entire point of the judge's ruling is that Patreon *can't* apply their new TOS retroactively.
Because the legal papers where already served.
Their new TOS applies to everyone who hasn't sued yet/don't have a claim under the old TOS.

>the righties love porn just as much as the lefties.
nope, a bunch of conservatives came out hard against it last year.

[Anonymous No.4762963]

>>4762961
>Their new TOS applies to everyone who hasn't sued yet
that's not how the law works, buddy.

[Anonymous No.4762975]

>>4762963
Unless they have a claim under the old TOS then they can't sue with the new TOS.

[Anonymous No.4762990]

>>4762961
>Their new TOS applies to everyone who hasn't sued yet/don't have a claim under the old TOS.

Not quite. First of all, these patrons are not the ones who filed a lawsuit. Patreon did, in order to prevent arbitration as outlined in their own TOS. Second, a TOS is a contract both parties have to agree to. People who did not agree to the new TOS are not bound by it. They may no longer use the service, but they can still make claims based on the original TOS for whatever happened during the period they were using it.
All of this has nothing to do with politics. This is contract law and consumer rights.

[Anonymous No.4763033]

>>4762990
Their new TOS might not even hold up if fit is deemed too unfair to the consumer. Arbitration was only originally held up because it at least seemed 'fair' at a glance, although it heavily favored corporations.

[Anonymous No.4763072]

i'm pretty surprised at how well the discussion is going in this thread, good points being made.

Arbitration, not lawsuits, were brought by users (arbitration which Patreon can win, despite having to pay fees upfront). The new TOS was created specifically (and unethically) to make arbitration a breach of TOS and disallowed. However, everyone who stopped using Patreon before January hasn't agreed to the new TOS, and can still file for arbitration based on previous grievances, which now seem to include "tortious interference" via disrupting patrons ability to access a cancelled account. That could apply to a lot of disgruntled users, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of former users do this to watch the platform burn.

Also, whoever said that this will mean other companies strengthen their TOS agreements is most likely correct.

On a slightly different note, this is a very good business opportunity for anyone who wants to start up a Patreon alternative, especially since a lot of the major pitfalls of a site like this have been, shall we say, showcased.

[Anonymous No.4763090]

>>4763072
Starting a patreon alternative won’t happen as long patreon is still around. Look at sites like youtube and twitch, both of these sites have garbage management, but nothing can be done about it, since there’s no good alternatives left. Look at mixer and daily, motion, those failed to become the competitors to both twitch and youtube. Even a patreon alternative does happen to appear, then it’s most likely will be gumroad.

[Anonymous No.4763096]

>>4763090
>twitch
>garbage management
Despite all the flak twitch gets they actually review shit before banning people.

>Even a patreon alternative does happen to appear
SubscribeStar
or just create your own website and allow people to donate directly to an account.

[Anonymous No.4763102]

>>4763090
Onlyfans
SubscribeStar
Pixiv Fanbox
All these are doing great

[Anonymous No.4763104]

>>4762955
Lefties hate porn, especially good-looking anime titties

[Anonymous No.4763108]

>>4760732
There are people who literally got banned for quoting actual research.

[Anonymous No.4763111]

>>4763102
>>4763096
Yea it’s great if you draw fucking porn or some nude cosplay shit. Normal people don’t use sites like those.

[Anonymous No.4763121]

>>4763111
I'm not gonna talk about 3DPD but for 2D you got mental illness if you hate art just because it doesn't appeal to your bigotry, dude

[Anonymous No.4763132]

>>4763121
I don’t hate art, but to the public eye theses service are used for porn or some extremely niche shit. Not many normal people are willing to use such services like that.

[Anonymous No.4763170]

>>4760677
>start internet service
>burgers all start suing me
how do i make an effective internet business and refuse all burgers from using it?

[Anonymous No.4763175]

>>4763170
Make a business in a completely different language that’s not engrish.

[Anonymous No.4763177]

>>4763132
I'm the public eye and it's all art to me and everyone who doesn't see my way is an idiot and deserves shaming.

[Anonymous No.4763190]

>>4763177
>there’s no such thing as erotica or porn in art
Holy fuck you’re retarded.

[Anonymous No.4763199]

>>4763190
I'm saying the exact opposite, retard.

[Anonymous No.4763222]

>>4763111
Are pornfags even using onlyfans?

[Anonymous No.4763232]

>>4763222
Idk, but it’s another alternative for them.

[Anonymous No.4763458]

>>4763222
There's been a few, most seem to use subscribestar now after leaving patreon.

[Anonymous No.4763634]

So what are my options if I'm a third-worlder with no PayPal? Subscribestar? Fanbox?

[Anonymous No.4763667]

>>4763634
Your only option is to work at Walmart, Jorge.

[Anonymous No.4763757]

>>4763104
Wot? I'm a literal Marxist and love porn (but prefer real titties, like Marx, who fucked his housekeeper).

[Anonymous No.4763818]

>>4763757
social marxists abhor the objectification (of women only) and heteronormativity. anon probably means that jerking it to anything resembling a traditional sexually desirable female form is tantamount to volunteering an audience at the Hague on suspicion of being a profligate patriarchy proponent, as only the worship of hairy polyamourous bespectacled whalekin with tumblr noses and ambiguous sexuality is remotely tolerable

[Anonymous No.4763819]

>>4763818
/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.4764552]

>>4762051
>So, anyone can decide what they want or not want on their site.
Except Patreon is trying to police what people do OUTSIDE of their site as well.

[Anonymous No.4764563]

>>4762955
You've got it all backwards. It's not that those "undesirable" people (which is a fucking meme since the definition creeps wider every fucking day anyway) specifically prefer those alternative sites, it's that you keep pushing everyone who doesn't satisfy your retarded purity standards out of everywhere else so they HAVE to go to the alternatives. And as the Overton window moves more and more towards the far left, more and more perfectly normal people get pushed out of the "normal" sites. Your idea of the people who you don't "want to associate with" is nothing more than a strawman you use to demonize the alternatives whenever they pop up. This happens every time there's a new site that might pose a threat to the established mainstream. They get immediately demonized and called nazis so that no real migration actually happens. It's really obvious and blatant and I fucking guarantee that SubscribeStar will get attacked as well once enough people start migrating there from Patreon.

[Anonymous No.4764569]

>>4761402
Both.

[Anonymous No.4764583]

>>4763819
dialectical materialist critique

[Anonymous No.4764595]

>>4760677
Will they go under?

[Anonymous No.4764610]

>>4760677
What are some alternatives for Patreon?

[Anonymous No.4764687]

>>4764610
Begging on the streets

[Anonymous No.4764691]

>>4764610
For me, it was taking it from the rear

[Anonymous No.4764817]

>>4763104
only fake nu-lefties, man

[Anonymous No.4764895]

>>4760684
>However, Patreon then changed its Terms of Service in an attempt to stop this from happening after the claims were filed
How the hell did they expect to get away with this?

[Anonymous No.4764913]

>>4764895
The same way they got into this mess, hoping nobody would actually read the terms and conditions.

[Anonymous No.4764915]

>>4764895
It's the kind of desperation move you would expect from people who think they can act unilaterally as long as they are morally justified in their view. This kind of immaturity seems to be in vogue in a lot of areas of society lately.
Frankly, they should have bitten the bullet and just done these arbitrations as quietly as possible. Now that they've initiated and lost a lawsuit, more people with an axe to grind will be emboldened to go through this process and revel in wasting Patreon's money. At $10k a pop, Patreon can win every arbitration and still lose.

[Anonymous No.4764917]

>>4761117
Not really. If you provide a commercial service that allows people to quickly and easily transmit money to each other, then you have an expectation to provide the service, and allow people to transmit money to each other.
Hate speech is criminal activity, and PayPal is obviously not required to provide a platform for it, but the responsibility of determining whether something is hate speech belongs to a court of law.

[Anonymous No.4764922]

>>4764917
>Hate speech is criminal activity

>The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that hate speech is legally protected free speech under the First Amendment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_States

[Anonymous No.4764935]

I wonder what's going to happen to the employees who told these companies make sure they force customers to take things to arbitration.

[Anonymous No.4764957]

>>4762955
>idea of free speech
it's not an idea, free speech has a pretty clear definition. and you either have it or you don't.

[Anonymous No.4766903]

Does fanbox works only with japanese banks?

[Anonymous No.4767009]

>>4766903
you can use paypal

[Anonymous No.4767025]

>>4764610
subscribestars

[Anonymous No.4767053]

>>4764917
>Hate speech is criminal activity
lolno

[Anonymous No.4767101]

>>4766903
>>4767009
If you buy fanbox, do you gain retroactive access to all past uploaded works?

[Anonymous No.4767112]

>>4761051
no it isnt
dont be so fucking fragile, snowflake.

[Anonymous No.4767148]

>>4767101
yeah, as long as you meet the tier requirements

[Anonymous No.4767152]

look at all the artwork and critique in this thread

[Anonymous No.4767275]

>>4762181
>Porn is hate speech against poor women who don't want to be objectified
And that's why porn is great.
There's nothing more based that something that degrades the scum that is the female gender.

[Anonymous No.4767312]

>>4767152
just like any other thread lets see one of the most representative threads of the board, /dad/, oh! you are supposed to NOT POST your art there; lets read the critiques, nice its empty here and there

[Anonymous No.4767843]

>>4762259
>>subscribestar.com

[Anonymous No.4767845]

>>4762469
>>4761051
>>4761039
>>4760742
Seething snowflakes lmao.

[Anonymous No.4767865]

>>4760677
Wow a literal fucking retard won a case against patreon, and it has almost no real postive effect for artists except for the low iq ones that think black peepo have magic crime bone in their head.

[Anonymous No.4767875]

>>4764935
They knew the advantage of arbitration, but they seems to never took into consideration of the state laws. It was simple a mistake that could only be made by fresh grads. I dunno

[Anonymous No.4767922]

>>4764817
Based Artist?

[Anonymous No.4767930]

>>4764817
Based. Artist?

[Anonymous No.4767952]

>>4767865
The positive effect is pateron get fucked like the fags they are. Fuck em

[Anonymous No.4767992]

>>4767952
So yet another meaningless symbolic gesture fueled primarily by a braindead culture war.

[Anonymous No.4767993]

>>4763634
>>4763102
There is also Fantia

[Anonymous No.4770055]

>>4767009
I can't have paypal here

[Anonymous No.4770466]

>>4767865
>a literal fucking retard
You don't know what 'literally' means, do you.

[Anonymous No.4770856]

>>4760677
Aren't there still 3 other major places where one can beg for money for posting art besides just patreon?