/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.4655541]

ITT art revelations

Drawing is more like sculpting. You don't just lay down the finished lines. You have to lay down dozens of rough lines in a scribble like mess, refining the mess until you reach something that looks good. Then you go over the mess in a dark pen and the finished work emerges. It's taken me 31 years to realize this.

[Anonymous No.4655543]

>>4655541
this is a troll right? thats what ive been doing my whole life with lineart and only recently have i tried to get rid of this god awful habit

[Anonymous No.4655564]

>>4655541
>Drawing is more like sculpting. You don't just lay down the finished lines.
Yes, someone finally got it--
>You have to lay down dozens of rough lines in a scribble like mess, refining the mess until you reach something that looks good.
>scribble like mess
N-no, op...lmao it's more like sculpting by chiseling away from a slab, not like sculpting by moving blobs of clay around randomly until it looks good.

It took you 31 years to realize half of what you need to get better but you completely miss the part about sculpting anlges out of an envelope method drawing, which requires clean linework most of the way through.

[Anonymous No.4655950]

>Anime avatar
>31 years
Something is off here.

[Anonymous No.4656033]

>>4655541
>Drawing is more like sculpting
that just doesnt apply to drawing as much as it does to painting... plus ive realized that when i was a /beg/...

[Anonymous No.4656036]

>>4655564
you are just as dumb as op ngl

[Anonymous No.4656061]

if this works for you and makes you happy keep doing it op

[Anonymous No.4656078]

>>4656036
Pyw

[Anonymous No.4656093]

going on /ic/ will usually make your art worse

[Anonymous No.4656118]

>>4655541
>ITT art revelations
/biz/ related revelations
+ Financial success with your art is more reliant on your entrepreneurial skills than your artistic skill.

+ The world of 2D art is larger than sci fi / fantasy illustration, concept art, porn patreons, manga/comic artist, and furry commissions. There is a staggering amount of people on this board who think that these are the only sources of opportunity for professional 2D artists.

+ Buy the Graphic Artists Handbook of Pricing and Ethical Guidelines. It's a great resource for getting range of real-world prices in regards to what you can charge for different opportunities. Not only that, but you can learn about how many other opportunities are out there for 2D artists, and you can learn a bit about why some things are priced the way they are.

+ Tossing work up on your social media and expecting to be 'discovered' is a terrible business plan, if that's your only means of promotion. Social media should be supplemental to your own, more direct promotional efforts.

+If you want to work for ___, then reach out to ___ to share your work and express your interest in working with them. It does not have to be complicated. You are not a used car salesmen, you do not have to do a hard sell. Simply making yourself known, having good work and expressing your interest in working with a place is enough. If your work is a good fit, they will keep you in mind for future opportunities.

+ Building a passive income can be extremely beneficial. Having a consistent base of income coming in can help fund your other endeavors, even when money is slow from other sources.

+ Ever see published art in the world and wonder "How did that person get hired? I'm better than they are!"? Why don't you ever get hired? The answer is probably because that illustrator actually bothered to put together a portfolio site and promote it directly to the art / creative director of said opportunity, while you did nothing.

[Anonymous No.4656235]

>>4655541
you're not 31 though
in fact, you're probably not even old enough for this board

[Anonymous No.4656237]

Asian Head different, anime is western people

[Anonymous No.4656241]

Sinix said something like this. Draw like a painter, Paint like a sculptor

[Anonymous No.4656254]

>>4656241
So draw like a sculptor then?

[Anonymous No.4656277]

>>4656254
Someone's got it

[Anonymous No.4656281]

>>4656241
That makes 0 sense

[Anonymous No.4656286]

>>4655950
Autism is a spectrum

[Anonymous No.4656309]

>>4655541
Here's one people seem to hate:
>Visualisation and meditation is 50% of the work, 30% is studying real life so you can visualise accurately, 20% is studying how to put what's in your head to the paper and other general drawing / painting skills.
>Studying composition is obsolete if you have the above skill, since you can simply navigate a scene in your head.

Someone should really let beginners know this sooner, because not knowing this really makes you feel like a creatively-bankrupt headless chicken, if you're trying to do anything other than copying animu.

[Anonymous No.4656312]

>>4656241
>draw with expressive strokes and less "accurate" lines
>paint by 'sculpting' negative spaces to create form
it's also known as cutting the form or sculpting
you only need to watch a couple of pros to see it in action, anime pros go over 1-3 layers of what is 'suggested' by pencil with ink
digital pros use big brushes to cut away interesting shapes right at the start of the composition, then do the same at a smaller scale to create smaller forms and points of interest
pretty basic stuff
>>4656118
based post

[Anonymous No.4656316]

>>4656118
on that last point
do you think if someone is still learning to get good at illustration, but are good enough to do some small-time gigs, they should start a small side-thing (like fiverr, etc) on a niche/specific market? eg I'm trying to get into illustration and/or animation and atm I'm good enough I could do some painterly portraits and that kinda thing, should I get into this for half of my time drawing and spend the other half developping? do you have anywhere else you post this kinda help?

[Anonymous No.4656331]

>>4656309
Larpy bullshit. Of course studying composition is important. This is not the first time i see someone claiming mind palaces from BBC Sherlock actually exist IRL.

Literally is not a real thing.

[Anonymous No.4656336]

>>4656331
Are you dum? The ancient greeks literally used what you're calling mind palaces to remember shit better.

Stop spreading misinfo, please, just because you don't have the discipline to practice visualisation, that doesn't mean others don't.

[Anonymous No.4656338]

>>4656118
> Financial success with your art is more reliant on your entrepreneurial skills than your artistic skill
How would one work on this? Are there any books/YouTube videos or other resources to improve?

[Anonymous No.4656339]

>>4656309
Post your work.

[Anonymous No.4656356]

>>4656339
No, lol.

It's not like I'm saying something that you can't really discern on your own. Whenever I realized this, I stopped just drawing boxes and shit and actually feeling like I could do my own stuff.

How can you not understand the difference between having a vague idea of what you want to make by thinking of a few sentences of what you want your character / landscape / etc. to be, and having an actual picture in your head of what they actually are? Like, you fags are all about "there are no shortcuts", and then completely ignore this very significant part of the journey.

Are you one of those people who believe we can't see pictures in our head, and who believes aphantasia is a thing?

[Anonymous No.4656372]

>>4656331
wait, you dont mind palace irl? fucks wrong with u?

[Anonymous No.4656378]

>>4656316
stay away from fiverr, freelancer, and upwork. they're crammed with cheap asian artists who will bid the lowest price and capture 80% of the open jobs. even if you select "US only" in your job filter, you still have to deal with shitbrained boomers and other assholes who want to lowball you and demand that you do "art tests", where you basically do free drawings for them, "before they consider hiring you". an old german guy commissioned me on upwork to do some character illustrations for him and randomly sent me nasty emails the next morning because I wasn't up at 2AM providing him with sketches "like the previous guy did". completely disregarding the fact that I live in the US and the time differences between our countries. i looked at his profile and found out he previously only commissioned filipinos and other asians who would work around the clock for peanuts and expected the same from me. I quit the contract and never went back to that shithole site again.

[Anonymous No.4656389]

>>4656336
Your brain simply doesn't work like that. You can visualize concepts and forms/shape in your mind yes, but it's never detailed or specific. Turns out human beings are not freaking computers.

The only way to have a real concrete impression of what the composition feels like is to put it down on a canvas and look at it.

People like you always over-estimate what the brain is capable of. You don't "navigate a scene in your head", and when you do, it's gonna be very vague. In reality you have a vague idea of a composition then you sketch it and refine/iterate on it until it feels/looks right.

Literally nobody does the drafting in their head, it simply is NOT possible.

[Anonymous No.4656391]

>>4656356
>Aphantasia isn't real
Oh, o-okay. :( Uh... Am I just retarded then?

[Anonymous No.4656392]

If you have an internal voice you are ngmi

Real artists think in pictures

[Anonymous No.4656394]

>>4656378
damnit it's not the first time i hear this about fiverr
where's the alternative then? asking potential customers/companies directly?

[Anonymous No.4656413]

>>4656338
There are books and YouTube videos on basically every subject, yes.

[Anonymous No.4656416]

>>4656389
> You don't "navigate a scene in your head", and when you do, it's gonna be very vague.
Why do you deny something exists just because you've never taken the time to see it for yourself? It's NOT easy, and it takes practice, I'll give you that, but you're oh so wrong. Next you're going to tell me you've never had a dream, or that you don't believe in lucid dreams because you've never had one so they don't exist.

Like I said, it's a tough pill to swallow, in engineering circles as well, but there's really no need to be afraid of it because anyone can do it with enough work. It IS a skill.

And no, we aren't computers, we work in very different ways. Hubris, do you know what it means? I think a neuron network comprised of a few billion links is well beyond our capabilities of rationalization, so no, computers can't even compare.

>>4656391
No, people nowadays are just terrible at visualization, so they think there's something wrong with them and just give up. Visualisation is a skill. Try this: http://www.winwenger.com/imstream.htm

[Anonymous No.4656421]

>>4656392
What if I refer to myself in the third person? "Anon is going to draw for a hour now"

[Anonymous No.4656423]

>>4656394
>where's the alternative then? asking potential customers/companies directly?
yeah, make a top notch portfolio and reach out to companies like >>4656118 said
also, put up ads locally. you'll be surprised at how many people want stuff for weddings, birthdays, etc. but can't find artists because they don't trust online commissions. i've done wedding portraits (from photo) for newlyweds in my area. it isn't artstation-worthy but people are high on emotions in wedding season and brides are willing to spend decent money (usually $200-500 range) on these things. do a great job and they will show them off to their friends which will get you more clients.

[Anonymous No.4656439]

>>4656423
appreciate the help anon
long shot but could I eye up your portfolio for a general idea of subject matter? I'm assuming I'd want to do some portraits of stock photos/friends in various style, mediums, some real life studies of every day objects, some original ideas?

[Anonymous No.4656482]

>>4656338
Just work on connections, increasing potential opportunities. Then when the opportunities come in do your best not to fuck it up

[Anonymous No.4656496]

>>4656439
Not the guy you're talking to but for a portfolio you need to show the kind of work you're going to be offering or show that you can do the stuff you want to get hired to a company for. If it's cards show off card designs. If it's portraits do portraits. If it's game assets make a sheet of that shit and put it in there. For character artist, show that you can design characters well. Make sense?

Do have a sketchbook that you put SFW creative stuff in all the time because some people like to ask to see what your sketchbook looks like.

People normally only want to see still life and life drawing pictures when you're applying to an art school and are showing you already understand some of the stuff they'll be teaching you.

[Anonymous No.4656507]

>>4656316
I agree (in part) with >>4656378. These sites are often a race to the bottom, and are not really representative of a healthy client / freelancer relationship. That being said, I'd be lying if I said that Upwork isn't worth checking out. I've personally made several thousands of dollars on Upwork, and continued many of those well-paying opportunities off site (working directly with the client). Upwork prohibits you from doing this, but fuck them. The cut they take is ridiculous and isn't worth it unless the workload+pay+client is right.

The trick with Upwork is to try and capture that diamond in the rough gig. Most jobs are some asshole's attempt to get cheap work from a freelancer in a country in a lower cost of living. You can avoid even seeing these jobs by using the search filter on Upwork. Some tips:
+ Set the search to US only
+ Search for fixed rate jobs only, starting at $250 minimum. Avoid all hourly jobs.
+ Avoid any job that is a childrens book, anime related or passion project
+ Use your head. If the client seems like a moron based on the project description, then it'll probably be a hassle to work with them.
+ Only apply to jobs that are relevant to the style of work you do and have in your portfolio. Anything else is a waste of your time.

The key is to look for that ~1% of gigs that pays well enough, seems like a decent client, and you have the right type of work for the job. I could maybe find 1 job every 2-3 days that fits this criteria for me. From there, it's on you to write a good pitch (lots of people fuck this up) and for you to have better work than everyone else.

>>4656338
Pick up the book I mentioned, it'll help give you a lot of perspective. From there, there is no better way to improve than by just going for it. My first email promos were terrible, and I got no response from most prospects. But you get better the more you do it. Practice on smaller clients first, then pitch yourself towards larger opportunities.

[Anonymous No.4656673]

>>4656507
>Upwork
i'm in the uk but I think I can still try out this upwork site, I'm gonna set up and give it a shot. still haven't got a good portfolio though
thank you anon you're truly based for taking the time out to do this, you got me curious about a lot if you got time, why say no to anime/childrens book etc, i'm assuming you mean the clients tend to have a very narrow picture of what they want or are generally too picky?

[Anonymous No.4656841]

>>4656281
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC3OxonJcXQ&t=5s

draw like a painter means always draw with the lighting in mind. paint like a sculptor is painting and cutting away.

[Anonymous No.4656859]

>>4656392
Literally everyone thinks in pictures, pic up a science book boyo

[Anonymous No.4656870]

>>4655541
Yep, and it also took me decades to fully realize it. Had a drawing teacher who told me to buy some clay and experiment to get past my flat symbol drawing.
It was actually studying Loomis that did it. Basically just copied his drawings, his plane and ball method for the head, and his construction helped me to draw more three-dimensionally.
Now I think of drawing closer to sculpture, where previously I thought of it as design (grew up on too many cartoons drawn in that flat Hanna-Barbera style).

[Anonymous No.4656876]

>>4656241
Do I sculpt like a drawer?

[Anonymous No.4656880]

>>4655541
>It's taken me 31 years to realize this.
You must be very very dumb.

[Anonymous No.4656881]

>>4656241
I read that as "drink paint, paint like a sculptor"

[Anonymous No.4656912]

>>4656841
Can someone explain to me what is happening in this video? He puts down random colors and somehow they turn into a face? I don't understand what I am seeing here. How does he know how to mix the paint to make it look like a face? How does he know what color to choose? It seems random but then a face appears so I'm assuming there is some method to this.

[Anonymous No.4657180]

>>4656389
>but it's never detailed or specific.
not true at least for me

[Anonymous No.4657325]

>>4656416
did you do this yourself i dont want to waste time doing this if it's pseudoscience bs

[Anonymous No.4658088]

>>4656241
and sculpt like a...?

[Anonymous No.4658368]

>>4656673
Being picky or particular about what you want is not necessarily bad. In fact, it can sometimes be the best experience, because the client ideally knows what to expect from you (because they hired you). If they were too open ended, you might risk making something way off the mark and end up wasting everyone's time, because the client's instructions were so vague and unclear.

>why say no to anime/childrens book etc
The "clients" who post these types of jobs on Upwork are, overall, people who don't know what they're doing. They are inexperienced clients. They've never hired an artist before, and they have completely unreasonable expectations and what an artist can . They often demand a 18-page, fully colored children's book for like $250.00. Many times, they (and other types of jobs) will ask you to draw in a particular style, or to copy another look. This is another huge red flag, and you should only take on jobs that allow you to work in your own style.

[Anonymous No.4658370]

>art revelations
I am a God

[Anonymous No.4658679]

>>4658370
Why do you hate this kid? Why do you keep posting his Instagram pictures everywhere? Are you trying to get us to attack him? Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.4659418]

>>4656118
>>4656507
Do you have any more resources (books/videos) that you recommend?

[Anonymous No.4659438]

>>4658679
How many times do I have to tell you? I am Jackson Everett, the one and only. Why do you deny simple truths?

[Anonymous No.4659798]

>>4655541
People shat over you OP but the same thing happened to me, I was even older when I realized that

[Anonymous No.4659800]

>>4659798
pyw

[Anonymous No.4659809]

>>4659438
Prove it. Posting screenshots of his insta isn't proof, anyone could do that. Make a Jackson Everett original and give us a time stamped note with a message to /ic/.

[Anonymous No.4659813]

>>4656331
Always get a hoot out of stunted retards who equate basic childhood imagination skills with magic. Did you never fucking play pretend? How do you read a book if you cant imagine the scenes? Are you even human?

[Anonymous No.4659830]

>>4656118
>>4656507
thanks a ton for writing all this.

How do you know when you're good enough to start looking for work? I'm afraid of failing or building a shitty rep.

[Anonymous No.4660570]

>>4659418
>Do you have any more resources (books/videos) that you recommend?
http://businessofillustration.com/ has many entries that contain good advice.
"How to Get Illustration Clients" by Alex Mathers outlines the basic blueprint for what I do, which involves researching potential clients, organizing their info into a spreadsheet, and logging your communication with them.

>>4659830
>I'm afraid of failing
One of the most important life lessons you can ever learn is to overcome the fear of failing. There's a reason so many movies/shows/books, etc. have theme centered around overcoming failure. Even if you're scared to really start putting yourself out there, you need to go for it. If you don't, the world will move on without you. I promise you that you will get used to it. People will say "no", tons of people will just not bother responding to you.

It's hard to know when you're good enough to start looking for work. One indicator you can look for is whether or not you have a portfolio site ready to go that is full of consistent work, both in quality and style. If you have work that is all over the place, or looks like the work of 2 or 3 different artists, then you're not ready. Stylistic cohesion to your work is very important.

>building a shitty rep
Don't let this hold you back. You will not build a shitty rep. Obviously, try and get as good as you can. But if your work is subpar when you first promote yourself, then simply promote yourself again when you're better. Then again, and again, and again. It is common practice to come back to someone with newer & better work when promoting yourself.
You will only build a shitty rep if you've started to get a career going or get some art directors following you, only to then post something stupid online. Never post any right-leaning / conservative stuff on your social media. If you're left leaning, then feel free to post any progressive content.

[Anonymous No.4660768]

>>4660570
>Never post any right-leaning / conservative stuff on your social media. If you're left leaning, then feel free to post any progressive content.
I blame Americans for never quelling the communists that infected your general media and entertainment industry in the 1920s.
Everything is assumed and absolute; nothing is discussed.
Disgusting. At least people are starting to wake up.

[Anonymous No.4660779]

>>4655541

When contour drawing and learning to draw what you see. Draw every piece of light, think of lines and forms as representation of every *single* light photon your eye is taking in. My brain had a much easier way of understanding abstract forms and shapes and how to draw them this way.

[Anonymous No.4660817]

>>4660768
>implying McCarthyism never happened and the red scare was taken seriously here.
>doesn't know anything about american history in general
it amuses me how europeans get uptight when americans comment on their countries, yet they love throwing around half-baked commentary about america

[Anonymous No.4660821]

>>4658088
animator

[Anonymous No.4660870]

>>4660768
>At least people are starting to wake up.
No they don't. Nobody is going to wake up, we are dreaming.

[Anonymous No.4661233]

>>4660817
My bad, I forgot an adjective
>for never successfully quelling
Here, I fixed it. I do know during the cold war, you presumptuous bastard.

>it amuses me how europeans get uptight when americans comment on their countries
Problems do not exist in a vacuum, you moron.

[Anonymous No.4661237]

>>4660817
My bad, I forgot a key word
>for never successfully quelling
Here, I fixed it. I do know what happened during the cold war, you presumptuous bastard.

>it amuses me how europeans get uptight when americans comment on their countries
Problems do not exist in a vacuum, you moron.

[Anonymous No.4661250]

>>4656241
Draw like a painter, paint like a sculptor, sculpt like a photographer, photograph like a blues musician

[Anonymous No.4662922]

>>4660768
>Everything is assumed and absolute; nothing is discussed.
You should pin this just as much (if not more) on the right than you should on the left. Whining about commies from the 1920's but leaving out how US conservatives have dragged political discourse into the mud during the past 3 decades (starting from Bill Clinton onwards) is just dumb.

[Anonymous No.4663437]

>>4662922
Exactly. Anyone who blames 'the left' (or what passes for the left in America) for our retarded political discourse must have literally been born yesterday.
It began before the Clinton era. Conservatives have had moral panics over jazz, rock, marijuana ("reefer madness") and D&D. There was the "War on Drugs," the freak out that Judas Priest caused suicide, and burning Dixie Chicks albums because they criticized the Iraq War.
I think overzealous SJWs and cancel culture are just as retarded, but it's part of the puritanism that has infected American politics for most of history, not specifically 'leftist.'

[Anonymous No.4664698]

>>4656331
You can use a memory palace to remember things quickly. It is always used in memory comptetitions.

[Anonymous No.4664830]

>>4656309
>studying composition is obsolete since you can navigate a scene in your head

if this were true, every 3d model render should have good composition.