/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.4496237]

will doing the charles bargue drawing course help me significantly improve other skills than xeroxing?

[Anonymous No.4496273]

You could use some xeroxing skills hon.

[Anonymous No.4496276]

I'm not a huge fan of Bargue-method. It's what a lot of atiliers teach unfortunately. I don't find it to be very useful overall because all it's really teaching you is a system for copying things. You can learn the method good enough to draw well from life, but if you don't have a model available it's pretty limiting. It's a system for copying what you see. I would recommend studying constructive drawing methods and basic human anatomy simultaneously. It takes a long time to get gud at it but once you do you don't have to rely so heavily on models or photos. Go study anatomy and start watching Glenn Vilppu videos.

[Anonymous No.4496310]

>>4496276

>Copying what you see

Yeah you don’t want to end up like Sargent or Zorn or Sorolla or anyone shitty like that.
You certainly don’t want to have to leave your room and go out in the world and have to interact with humans and observe nature like some virgin.
That would suck.
Chad artists draw mannequinized standard body types and generic faces with limited emotional depth (emotional depth in art is for faggots).

[Anonymous No.4496333]

>>4496310

If you learn construction and anatomy you can draw from imagination or from life you absolute retard. If you only learn bargue method you are limited. I don't know how many art models you've hired but that shit costs money. Have fun either being reliant on paying roasties by the hour to pose or alternately getting hit with a lawsuit for copying and selling someone's copyrighted photography like Shepard Fairey did.

[Anonymous No.4496355]

>>4496333

>doesnt know how the other artists find subjects.

Um, sweetie, I’ve never had to pay for art models (or sex for that matter) in my life.
You don’t see me “constructing” drawings of babes in the cafe. I can virtually wave my hand across the page and a striking likeness comes out, simultaneously capturing both their nuanced vulnerability their best self. No Loomis heads, no cylinders and boxes. Just sexy forms and moments in time.

[Anonymous No.4496367]

>>4496237
>will drawing things help me improve my drawing
yes

[Anonymous No.4496376]

>>4496310
>Yeah you don’t want to end up like Sargent or Zorn or Sorolla or anyone shitty like that.
I don't worship any of these people just because they're old and I'm supposed to think they're really good. Drawing from reference/life is simply not something I'm interested in except as a learning tool, and it's not a skill that I particularly admire in others. If these people couldn't draw from imagination then I would rank them below any random animator or comic artist who can draw from imagination.

[Anonymous No.4496386]

>>4496237
>>4496276

Unironically ngtmi.

[Anonymous No.4496393]

>>4496333
>if you only learn bargue
>>4496376
>not something I'm interested in except as a learning tool
the book is an introductory level practice course, what in god's name are you people on about?

[Anonymous No.4496394]

>>4496310
Bargue gets touted around as some kind of traditional art instruction that originated centuries ago, but in fact it dates back to the late 19th century and doesn’t have a great deal of backing.
Can you give me some sources that prove Sargent, Zorn, and Sorolla studied Bargue? Not saying they didn’t, I just never heard of it before

[Anonymous No.4496397]

>>4496333
Bargue teaches you construction you fucking retards. You'll be lucky to draw forms half as well as Bargue.

[Anonymous No.4496418]

>>4496393
It trains you to draw in sight-size. If you didn’t know, a whole bunch of artists never used that method nor found it applicable to their styles, particularly because it’s extremely rigid. There’s a bit of controversy about it too because when fine-art ateliers reopened they had to reconstruct the curriculum, and many had incorrectly assumed drawing sight-size was the standard method in the past

[Anonymous No.4496422]

>>4496273
/thread

[Anonymous No.4496462]

>>4496394
I was responding to the anon (and in essence all such anons) who was saying “muh construction is better than drawing from life hurr durr”.
Many such cases. Sad.

>>4496376
You realize drawing being able to draw Dopey and Steven Universe (A skill you can pick up in community college) but not being able to draw your own mother is an equally limiting ideal, right?

The way these Masters learned to draw from life was not from Bargue plates and 6 day rendering sperg-outs like today’s “ateliers”. Nor did they require some system of construction based on mannequins and so on. They drew from models, lots and lots of poses, short, long, quick, outdoor sketching and so on. They also studied anatomy and learned some sculpture and so on until the human figure, based on OBSERVING ACTUAL HUMANS was so burned into their brains They didnt need construction, or models or any one thing whithout which they’d be fucked.

However they preferred to draw from life because the complexity of real people and nature is far more interesting, beautiful, ugly, profound than the average faggots “muh imagination”. And it cant be imitated or conjured up out of thin air any more than you or your mom or your lover or child can.

You guys REALLY need to get over this fucking “muh imagination” meme. It’s fucking stunting the lot of you. You’re fucking embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.4496466]

>>4496333
fucking retard. the bargue plates follow the same steps as any realistic approach to drawing takes

[Anonymous No.4496481]

>>4496418
yeah, i know the history of it. but it's still a way of practicing basic measurements of proportions, angles, etc., evaluating what you're putting down in your own drawing, and learning basic patience. it's all useful stuff that any /beg/ could benefit from.
rigidity concerns don't come into play for self teaching anyway, it's going to get mixed in with fifty other things anyway.

[Anonymous No.4496487]

>>4496462
>You guys REALLY need to get over this fucking “muh imagination” meme. It’s fucking stunting the lot of you. You’re fucking embarrassing.
Can you illustrate a comic book without being able to draw from imagination? And also without forcing your ideas to conform to the references you're able to find?

[Anonymous No.4496504]

If any of you faggots ever actually read the books you pirate all dayblong, the history and purpose of the Bargue plates is right in the introduction.

It was a solution based on a marked national decline in drawing ability among French students who had yet to ply a trade. The reasons for the decline was varied but Jerome and Bargue were hired, as were other artists to try to rectify the problem and raise the baseline standard of minimum skill. The thinking was that if you cant develop a sharp eye and an understanding of form, light and shade, then learning anything beyond that would have bad results. Drawing was still a valuable skill and most everyone who went to school learned to draw.
The academies often did in fact use such plates, but only as the very /beg/ phase. The ateliers were not wrong about this.
The “sight size” method (where the model and the canvas were side by side and a 1:1 size ratio was used) was pretty much invented or at least developed into what we have today in the US in Boston however (I forget the guy’s name).

[Anonymous No.4496509]

What’s up guys, yongyea here.

[Anonymous No.4496536]

>>4496487
Comics is a good example actually. That and concept art, are arguably the only venues where this skill is needed. Where without the ability to draw from imagination you’d be fucked.

I myself (i’m the anon you are addressing) aspire to make a few graphic novels for some ideas I’ve had for a long time - and so have decided to learn how to construct figures “from imagination” and finally get into perspective. It’s obvious that both of these skills are needed in this case.
Has it made my art any better? No, not really. Has it made me more flexible? Sure. So is it valuable? Yes. Do I wish I had only learned this or feel it would have been sufficient to make all the other art I like? Absolutely not. For the reasons I have outlined in my other posts above.
Do I feel that comics and concept art are superior artforms to drawing and painting from life? , hell no.
Is there a single comic in existence I like more than my favorite Sargent? Hell no.
Are there any examples of comics artists whose work outside of their comics impressed me? Not really.
Do I feel that fine artists who don’t aspire to make a comic or make some kind of fucking dragon-ass concept art should learn to draw from their heads? No.

Anyway...

[Anonymous No.4496551]

>>4496504
>at least developed into what we have today in the US in Boston however
Paxton? Gammell? Lack?

This discussion isn't really about Bargue. If you can't draw what is directly in front of you, regardless of the method you use, then what good will imaginative drawing serve you?

You've spent all that time training your mind and you've neglected your eyes. This is why doctors can know anatomy better than any artist, but can't draw it to save their life even when it's directly in front of them.

If you can't draw a leg receding into space in front of you with accurate foreshortening, believe me, a perspective grid will not help you.

Oh and if anons are concerned about sight size, using grids and comparative measurement is a thing for centuries and is still used widely.

[Anonymous No.4496556]

>>4496551
Gammel & Lack are who I was thinking of.

[Anonymous No.4496562]

>>4496551
Word.

[Anonymous No.4496566]

>>4496376
Sarg, Z & S aren't venerated by artists because they're old, it's literally because their skill set was so insanely high.
Please don't tell me you think drawing from life is simply copying what is front of you, as that would make you double digits IQ.

[Anonymous No.4496567]

>>4496536
nice little blog you have there

[Anonymous No.4496571]

>>4496462
Oh thank you. Someone copy this for pasting into all these threads from now on.

[Anonymous No.4496575]

>>4496567
Your welcome.
It’s because I care about anons.

[Anonymous No.4496618]

>>4496575
anons dont really care about your make-believe claims and opinions sorry anon either pyw or stop criticizing the 'bargue' method

[Anonymous No.4496629]

>>4496618
Erm, never criticized the Bargue method.i contextualized it historically.
You’re getting your anons confused anon.

[Anonymous No.4496677]

From other anon posts this is an interesting book, as someone who isn't patient at all when it comes to drawing and a complete beginner i think it would be useful for me.
Just couple of question before i start.
Is it fine to do it without an instructor ?
Is it fine to do it digital?
how fast/slow should i be going through this book ?
Any supplementary stuff should i be watching/ reading before i start ?

[Anonymous No.4496759]

>>4496677
Digital is making it harder on yourself until you are both good at drawing and digital.
There are tutorials around online and book/plates are all over the net.
The benefit of a teacher is when you don't know why yours sucks. But some anons here may be able to give you contructive fb.

[Anonymous No.4496808]

>>4496310

Based

[Anonymous No.4496815]

>>4496759
these things are set up so that even a monkey could troubleshoot his own work at the various stages desu

[Anonymous No.4497189]

>>4496815
You ‘d be surprised.

[Anonymous No.4498744]

>>4496815
I'm not sure I understand the purpose of the schema included on the plates. Is the idea supposed to be that your drawing starts off looking something like the top image and you refine it into the bottom one through some sort of process, or is it just supposed to be something that helps you visualize and compare the important proportions and angles and such?

I wouldn't be too surprised if the average monkey was better than me at drawing.

[Anonymous No.4499155]

>>4496310
>>4496333
>>4496355
>>4496386
>>4496808
>all these obvious redditposters shitting on /ic/
Are you guys working together? What is your goal and what do you want from us?

[Anonymous No.4502164]

>>4496273
Why?

[Anonymous No.4502169]

>>4502164
Look at the OP drawing and then ask yourself why

[Anonymous No.4502175]

>>4496237
yongyea?

[Anonymous No.4504563]

i didn't draw it
>>4502175
yes