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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique


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4374694 No.4374694 [Reply] [Original]

why does gesture simultaneously feel like the most and least important aspect in art

>> No.4374700

>>4374694
It's not important at all.
NO ONE can show me a professional artist who actually does gesture drawings. No one. It's just another snake oil superstition that /beg/ latch onto to give them a sense of structure.

>> No.4374705

just learn what the line of action is

>> No.4374709

>>4374694
> he can't gesture

>> No.4374710

>>4374700
I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on these steps that artists like to follow to "git gud"

I've heard on multiple occasions that gesture art is THE single most important step~

>> No.4374716

>>4374694
Gesture is a meme. Watch streams frequently and you can see nobody is using memes.

>> No.4374726

>>4374710
Anyone can SAY anything. But what do good artists (not art teachers) actually DO? Can you show me a working artist actually doing gesture?

>>4374716
This

>> No.4374728

>>4374726
>>4374716
>>4374700

disney built their empire on manipulating gesture you fucking brainlets

>> No.4374729

>>4374694
It's a meme. It has helped me the least. "quick and loose" is also a meme - draw slowly BUT confidently (good lines etc.)

>> No.4374730

>>4374726
No, I always was autistically stubborn about how I want to learn and grow as an artist. I honest find the whole idea of drawing pages of the same fucking thing boring af and pointless. It's just interesting to hear others talk about it in the same way.

>> No.4374741

>>4374729
Quick and anything is the ultimate crab advice. My work improves 10x when I slow down and try to make it look good.

>> No.4374745

Tbf I found that it's more helpful to try to limit the amount of lines that I'm allowed to use and give myself some time to think about it instead of doing the rushed >1min gesture meme.

>> No.4374789

>>4374694
Dont listen to these guys. A lot of pros use gesture especially comic guys with dynamic poses they just have their own way of doing it. But the rule of thumb is to start loose and get the action and general idea down. check out marc silvestri or jim lee on youtube.

At least learn how to do it properly first and later down the road if you feel you dont need to do it then cool but i think until you get to an advanced level you should be practicing gesture

>> No.4374804

Gesture is just the placement of forms. So you don't have to literally draw out gesture lines to map out the pose, but every artist still considers gesture.

But for beginners it's useful if they break up the Gesture and Simple Forms step when drawing.

>> No.4374825

>>4374716
That's because they already know it by memory you retard

>> No.4374828
File: 1.19 MB, 1334x750, IMG_6241.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4374828

>>4374789
First Jim Lee video I pulled up. Literally starts off by drawing the contour. Exactly what Proko says not to do.

>> No.4374830

Why is this board filled with so many retarded /beg/s.

>> No.4374850

>>4374828
Retard

>> No.4374855

>>4374850
Explain to me how that's a gesture and not a contour.

>> No.4374867

>>4374855
Contour is wrapping around form he’s finding the gesture and proportions of the the figure with simple cs- lines, you can even see he put in the Center line Of the body to help find the action of the pose.

>> No.4374873

>>4374867
You are literally just repeating the mantra instead of looking at what's right in front of you. He is clearly going right in and drawing the outline.

>> No.4374874

>>4374867
>Contour is wrapping around form
thats not true, countour is the outline of the form

>> No.4374876

>>4374873
No one is forcing you to use gesture.

>> No.4374889

>>4374874
Wrapping lines are volumetric contours
>>4374873
You don’t know how to deconstruct an image because you’ve never studied how to build one in the first place. He has simplified the “outline” of the body to be extremely simple, if he was literally outlining the form there would be tons of bumps and detail.

If you want to prove why gesture isn’t worth doing then please post artists who discourage against gesture.

>> No.4374897

>>4374889
Actions speak louder than words. Especially the actions of working artists vs the words of art teachers.
I think drawing simple outlines is great. Draw simple outlines all day long, it's a good way to start a drawing. But art teachers like Proko and Vilppu EXPLICITLY tell you not to draw outlines, they say outlines are not gestures, gestures are something different. And I agree with them, the weird noodly stick figures they draw are not outlines.
So again, show me a video of a working artist who draws a gesture. In the Lee video I posted a screenshot of he clearly starts with an outline and not a gesture, so as far as I can tell I've presented the most evidence so far.

>> No.4374902

>>4374694
Gesture is incredibly important, if you can't FEEL THE FLOW your art will be SOULLESS

>> No.4374904

OP needs to draw some gestures

>> No.4374945

>>4374897
Like I said in my first post he is finding the proportion and gesture of the figure, if it was a literal outline it’d be very bumpy. Actions speak louder than words, if anything his actions prove among other pros actions that the more you practice something the more efficient your process becomes.

>> No.4378093

>>4374729
Quick and loose gets you the energy that you need. It is the best way to get dynamic before the details weigh it down.

Working in animation or any form of sequential art, being able to go from quick and loose to slow and methodical is the way of life.

If you don't see the value of gesture, your figures may be stiff and unnatural. It will show in your work.

>> No.4378105

>>4374700
People already gave you multiple people that do gesture, but you still post this. You are probably a low IQ nigger.

>> No.4378113

>>4374694

i know it's 4chan but goddamn that's the dumbest shit i've read this year

>> No.4378160

>>4374745
This. Trying to capture something in a set amount of lines > trying to capture something in a set amount of time

You get better with speed anyway as you get more accurate, so doing 30sec gestures or whatever just comes out of doing thought-out gestures 1,000,000 times.

>> No.4378219

30 seconds is idiotic; use 1 minute minimum

>> No.4378432
File: 412 KB, 1748x2480, artflow_202002190131.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4378432

>>4374700
Ever heard of Disney, retard?

>>4374694
I understand your misgivings. There was a time I didn't understand gesture either. I followed instructions on gesture drawing, but never really *got* it at first. Walt Stanchfield's books on gesture drawing helped me with that. Because gesture isn't a specific set of instructions, it's a way of thinking and approaching a problem.
Gesture is the main idea of a subject: what it's doing, how it's affected by forces such as gravity. It communicates acting, emotion, and feeling. Gesture drawing is merely the exercise of trying to get that essence down in the most succinct way possible, exaggerating the action and ensuring that it is easily readable and it gets the point across. Many different methods exist, but in the course of time you'll most likely come up with a gestural shorthand of your own.

Gesture is a fundamental skill just like construction and in fact they are two sides of the same coin. Construction communicates form and gesture communicates action. If the construction is the structure, then gesture is the life that inhabits it. Getting better at gesture lends liveliness to your construction, and conversely getting better at construction will give your gestures more form. If you lack in either skill it will show in your art. So be sure to practice your gesture by both doing gestures of figures from reference and doing simple figures from imagination acting and interacting.

>> No.4378464
File: 546 KB, 1748x2480, artflow_202002180818.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4378464

>>4374828
That's because he's extremely experienced to the point where he can do it unconsciously. Lots of artists with enough experience do.
Try to force that as a beginner, and you're going to fail. Hard.
I can do what he does- though not even remotely to the same level obviously- and just take it from me: it took A LOT of practicing my construction and gesture to get to this point, and I'm STILL practicing.
It's good that you're asking questions but be careful of being contrary for the sake of contrarianism, or you will NGMI. You have to use the training wheels first before you can fly, anon. They are there for a reason.

>> No.4378480

>>4374700
The most ngmi post i ever read on this sad board.

>> No.4378556

>>4378432
Which Apple iPad Pro is this?

>> No.4378560

>>4378556
The one that's a Samsung Galaxy Tab A.

It's pretty underpowered desu.

>> No.4378847

>>4374700
This a thousand times over. The only people who support gesture studies are NGMIs who fell for the art guru meme. But to anyone who disagrees, go ahead its very simple to disprove me, just pyw.

>> No.4378872

>>4378464
>he can do it unconsciously
This old chestnut again.
"He's just done it so many times he doesn't need it anymore."
First question, doesn't that mean that people often misrepresent the real use of gesture? If what you say is true, then gesture is just a set of training wheels until you get good enough to draw without it. But I don't think that's how Vilppu and Proko talk about gesture. I could be wrong.
Second and more important question. What is your evidence for actually believing it? What reason do you have to believe it other than, art teachers told me that gesture is really important, so I guess all good artists have done a lot of gestures. Do you actually think this guy has a closet full of sketchbooks where he did a lot of gesture drawings? Do you legiimately believe that?

>> No.4378887

Gesture isn't a sketching technique lmao, it's a component. It's like saying value is a technique.

>> No.4378899

>>4378872
Jim Lee admits it on his videos drawing the WildCATS characters.
He says he tends to know where everything is because he’s drawn them so often.

>> No.4378912

>>4378872
yes, you are wrong in every count.
>>4378847
pyw

>> No.4378914

>>4378887
We're talking about literally drawing the gesture lines as the first step of a drawing, not just being able to theoretically find the gesture of any pose.
It's impossible to have a drawing without value. But it is possible to have a drawing without drawing the gesture lines first. Therefore it's just one technique among many.

>> No.4378917

>>4378912
You just can't make me believe that drawing hundreds of noodly stick figures is the only way to learn how to draw. It's an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence. It's absurd on the face of it.
Also.
Loomis literally does not mention gesture one time anywhere in his figure drawing book. He goes right into building a mannequin out of solids.

>> No.4378932

>>4374700
For starters , all of the animation industry , in illustration you dont see the gesture lines but if an illustration feels stiff artist didnt practice gestures , hell just look at TB Choi , shes one of the rare artists not in animation that regularly posts her studies and it includes a lot of gesture , then take a look at her actuall work and how energetic it feels , just because you dont see something in the final product doesnt mean it was not part of construction process

>> No.4378945

>>4378914
The equivalent to value then would be making a grisaille. That's a technique. But value itself is not, just like gesture isn't.

>> No.4379039
File: 672 KB, 1748x2480, artflow_202002161251.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4379039

>>4378872
See >>4378432
Yes, I'm pretty sure he does have sketchbooks filled with gesture drawings. These are also known as "sketches", dumbass.

You're getting hung up on one very specific method of gestural drawing and missing the whole point. Stuff like little stick figures or bubble people or figures in varying degrees of simplification are simpler and easier to draw. So you can spend less time thinking about anatomy and details or worrying about it looking good and focus on acting and expression. Artists do tons of these, both for practice, or for thumbnailing, or as the rough sketch of a drawing. They even do it for fun. If you want to be able to draw effectively from imagination then you are going to practice gesture, no two ways about it.
https://youtu.be/xoY4C9dXshw
Steve Zapata talks about gesture drawing in this video. I shouldn't have to spoonfeed you shit, though, because if you actually spent time studying artists and how they work I wouldn't need to.
I also find it really funny that you don't seem to think art instructors aren't actually artists themselves. What, you think they took up teaching art as a day job to pass the time or something? Use your brain, man.

>> No.4379243

>>4378917
You are braindead

>> No.4379250

>>4379243
If gesture is so important why doesn't Loomis talk about it.

>> No.4379455

>>4378560
How do you physically draw, how do you hold the pencil? Do you draw from the shoulders?
I tried drawing on the ipad 9.7, couldn't make for long due to the small size so I wonder how did you handle that Tab. Zoom in and out a lot too?

>> No.4379512

heres a example of gesture by a pro..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh922GIoTok
skip to 3:25:28

>> No.4379606

>>4374694
does jojo count as a case study on hyperbolic gesture?

>> No.4379608

>>4379455
I draw from the shoulder mostly, yeah.

>> No.4382702

>>4374700
bad advice from an inexperienced antifa e-zoomer

>> No.4382760

>>4378560
Just imagine how much faster and better you'll be if you had the Apple iPad Pro 12.9 instead.
Just one of the many benefits of long-term thinking and planning - buying cheap gets you nowhere.

>> No.4382843

>>4379512
Again she's drawing a (rough) outline, not a gesture. When I say gesture I mean like what Vilppu does. If you want to say that all loose contour sketches are gestures then whatever, I guess I agree gesture is a god thing then. Most people explicitly say gestures are not outlines though.

>>4382702
>antifa
I'm a /pol/lack actually.

>> No.4384165

>>4382843
are you the INTJ fag?

>> No.4384166

>>4384165
No