/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.4299146]

Be honest, /ic/. How many of you have actually read Loomis?

[Anonymous No.4299534]

>>4299146
who?

[Anonymous No.4299539]

>>4299146
Followed all the advice from this board and went through all the useful Loomis book, the best being successful drawing and drawing the head and hands it really helps you with learning construction methods and how to establish forms in perspective. I don't get why you fags keep passing it off as just a meme when in fact it is probably one of the most indispensable pieces of knowledge you'll ever learn and something you will use every time you define any form.

[Anonymous No.4299542]

join us >>4297266

[Anonymous No.4299545]

>>4299146
i read pictures not text am i missing much?

[Anonymous No.4299547]

>>4299545
No.

Unrelatedly, you're fucking retarded and deserve every failure you've ever experienced in your dumb fucking ignorant little excuse for a life.

[Anonymous No.4299630]

>>4299146
I must have read him 30+ times, no joke. It took me 2 years before I felt I had a reasonable grasp on his techniques

[Anonymous No.4299652]

>>4299146
The overview on perspective and construction drawing is very good. Also, the bits on design and composition are pretty solid.

I dont feel the input on life drawing/painting is very effective, especially for a student. Thats better elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.4299671]

Are they right, /ic/? Is Loomis a sham?

[Anonymous No.4299675]

>>4299146
enough to learn the head, get horribly confused from his landmarks vs the way i already drew, and give up and look for someone elses teachings.

[Anonymous No.4299677]

>>4299671
maybe post one of the "obvious" traces?

[Anonymous No.4299720]

His books have been my go-to study bibles since I started an art-related career path a decade ago. I still truck my old battered copies along every time I go on vacation. To mitigate the very slow moments in their vacationing lives, I used to occasionally wave them at my family and shout "Loomis!" and loose pages would rain down from my loft balcony. They thought I was eccentric.

[Anonymous No.4299769]

>>4299539
pyw

[Anonymous No.4299780]

>>4299671
Completely retarded, Loomis simplifies and idealizes people, show me a photo that looks like a loomis drawing.

[Anonymous No.4299844]

I didn't entirely, when I started drawing I picked up Fun with a Pencil and did some early exercises but I quickly stopped and went to study anatomy and other things on my own. Had a lot of fun with Bridgman's anatomy book, trying to understand the drawings was a fun challenge and a has taught me a lot on anatomy but also how it transfers to a drawing.

[Anonymous No.4299903]

>>4299671
I choose to believe this because it validates my biases and thus helps me cope.

[Anonymous No.4300232]

>>4299146
Not me and i never claimed i did

[Anonymous No.4300236]

never did and my art is better than 99% of /ic/

[Anonymous No.4300238]

>>4299671
A lot of famous doujin authors do this as well, they trace gravure photos and some have been caught tracing even worse shit than that.

[Anonymous No.4300240]

>>4300238
>even worse shit
oh no
you don't mean
p-p-p-porno
do ya, anon?

[Anonymous No.4300242]

>>4299146
I read it, but I ended up finding Hampton more helpful

[Anonymous No.4300246]

>>4300242
Hampton is also using Loomis.

[Anonymous No.4300248]

>>4299146
>2020 and /ic/ is still circle jerking on to Loomis' corpse when his books haven't been public domain since 2013

[Anonymous No.4300256]

>peter han
hack
>ruan jia
hack
>krenz
hack
>proko
hack
>marshall
ultra-hack
>vilppu
hack
>loomis
ultra-mega soulless hack
>Jeff Watts
hack
>Kim Jung Gi
hack
>Moden Day James
hack
>Gnomon
hacky site
>Scott Robertson
Autistic hack
>Hogarth
ultimate hack

Who the fuck are we supposed to learn from ??

[Anonymous No.4300263]

>>4299671
Loomis books are largely about drilling accurately measuring so the reader can learn that process. He certainly used reference like anyone, and maybe he did trace stuff, but there is no point in including something like that when the books are about training observational drawing and construction.
It looks like a ngmi is just mad it's not the magic bullet and he doesn't want to put in the time to git gud.

[Anonymous No.4300264]

>>4300256
You should stop shitposting and start drawing.

[Anonymous No.4300268]

>>4299671
literally ngmi

[Anonymous No.4300281]

>>4300240
I mean something that pepperoni goes on, anon-kun

[Anonymous No.4300490]

>>4299844
I don't know how I expected Bridgman to look, but it was anything but that.

[Anonymous No.4300507]

>>4300490
Was it perhaps anything like this?

[Anonymous No.4300526]

>>4299671
Wasn't Rockwell open about tracing? In his Famous Artist Course book he even explains his entire process from taking the photo to setting up the projector and so on. Also Loomis talks about tracing at the start of one of his books and claims that a lot of his peers do it to their own detriment and that it's better to learn how to actually draw. It'd be pretty shady if he was tracing.

[Anonymous No.4300593]

I get useful things out of it when I can't get what I need from Bridgman, mainly things relating to the head.

[Anonymous No.4300605]

I bought two of his books back in the day, never read a page.

[Anonymous No.4300641]

>>4299146
drawing the head and hands was my first introduction into constructing the human, so yes

[Anonymous No.4300648]

>>4300256
fetish porn furry artists who do scat and fart porn and have less than 60 followers on twitter

[Anonymous No.4300686]

>>4300648
ok this is basede

[Anonymous No.4300742]

>>4300526
I think he just used tracing to correct his mistakes and get a likeness quickly.

Tracing is a weird topic because it is actually a worthwhile experience for learning anatomy, foreshortening, mastercopies. Your tracings even get better as you get better at your fundamentals.
But people horribly misuse tracing once they see how accurate they can get with 0 training:
- Accurate proportion but ignoring overlap, line weight, tangents, gesture, and the basic fact that you aren't supposed to copy the model.
- Working solely from photos your values will be awful because your photo will either have detailed shadows and blown out light or detailed light and black shadows. Your eye can adjust to see detail in all light levels.
- Your perspective will be a slave to the camera lens setting. Wide angles will give away that you used a photo and introduce distortion whether you wanted it or not.
- Your compositions will be exactly what the photo has because you dont know how to edit and compose something new from photo ref.
- and of course color in photo is a portion of what the eye can actually see in real life.
If you train fundies and work from life you can eventually fix these photo shortcomings and improve your photo ref.

I would advise tracing exercises as a very small portion of your overall training for anything you feel you have hit a brick wall on or just want to switch it up. For line drawing master studies it is the closest you can get to having that artist literally guide your hand and feel how they worked. It can also help in a standard study cycle of
- draw object from ref (photo or life) exactly
- put away ref and redraw exact from memory
- trace object if your drawing is fucking way off -> repeat puttting away ref and drawing from memory
- break object down into easily memorable lines/shapes/forms
- draw from memory using breakdown. use breakdown to draw from imagination in new angles/poses.

[Anonymous No.4300751]

>>4300742
Nevermind

>Mr. KALISCHER: Yeah. And here's his - this big projector. Big cameras stretch out and the projector projects my photograph. Oh, I said, but so what do you do with it? I trace it. I thought he just took the information to do his own thing. No. I said, oh, that's pathetic.
https://www.wbur.org/npr/120925892/story.php

[Anonymous No.4300774]

>>4300742
You are fucking retarded, know nothing about drawing, are literally ngmi. Every piece of shit you spew is a detriment to art.
>>4300526
Rockwell was a fucking hack who couldn't place somebody's feet on the ground if his life depended on it,but Americans needed somebody to try carry on the Leyendecker lineage and that was as close as they were ever gonna get.

[Anonymous No.4300779]

>>4300751
>https://www.wbur.org/npr/120925892/story.php

God it's nice to know that even Rockwell thought of himself as a fucking, the piece of shit. Thanks for the smile anon.

[Anonymous No.4300801]

>>4300774
You didn't even read my post beyond the part where I said tracing and worthwhile, did you?

[Anonymous No.4300814]

>>4300801
I did and what you recommend is fucking idiotic. Some sort of next-level symbol drawing bullshit from someone who doesn't have any fucking respect for constructive drawing, or has completely misunderstood what the fucking point of it all is. Your first listing of things that happen if you misuse photos are also full of so many fucking assumptions that it's just ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.4300867]

>>4300814
>Your first listing of things that happen if you misuse photos are also full of so many fucking assumptions that it's just ridiculous.
They are only assuming that you don't spend time learning about the shortcomings of photos, which I already said. They are all accurate shortcomings of tracing+photograph vs real life+fundamental learning.
>someone who doesn't have any fucking respect for constructive drawing
One of my steps was "break object down into easily memorable lines/shapes/forms" like dynamic sketching basics.
I am a fundie bible thumper. I don't even bring up tracing normally because of people like you who run screaming at the mention of it and because very new artists just see it as justification to trace everything.
Again, it is a limited portion of your training and of limited use in isolation. Mastercopies of line work, anatomy, foreshortening.
Here are two quick sources related to this that I could find without looking through videos (I think draftsmen brought it up)
Proko
>https://www.proko.com/how-to-do-an-anatomy-tracing/
Vitruvian Studio (atelier type training)
>https://vitruvianstudio.com/why-learn-to-draw-when-you-can-trace/ (clickbait headline but goes into pros and cons of tracing from an atelier perspective)

Tracing like this would be less than 2% of your training but it can help with these very specific hurdles in your early learning. Like training wheels. Don't use it for long.

[Anonymous No.4300876]

>>4299146
I have studied fun with a pencil but not his other books

[Anonymous No.4301338]

>>4300774
>>4300814
Listen you fucking faggot. If you're going to crab on someone else's explanation on how they should learn how to draw something, you should provide a counter-example. Otherwise, fuck off.

[Anonymous No.4301344]

>>4300686
>basede
rertad

[Anonymous No.4301351]

>>4301338
When it comes to shit that's this idiotic, it isn't worth a conversation. Thinking and learning is obviously beyond anybody who thinks that tracing is a valid learning tool. If you were saying "well tracing is valid if you need to shit something out in order to get things done quickly just to get by" then sure, I could cut some slack. But this notion of how you can "learn" with tracing is just fucking retarded and has nothing to do with fundamental drawing aspects.
It'd be worth having a conversation if the fucking idiot didn't start off by listing all these goddamn assumptions ~they~ have about the ~shortcomings~ of tracing photos. There's so many goddamn assumptions being made in that fallacious little shitpost that just breaking through that would take multiple posts, and in the end, it's just faster for me to let you wallow in your own fucking ignorance and get on with my life than to care about some random fucking shitposter that thinks that their opinion on drawing is valid because ~they've been drawing for five whole years and aren't a beginner anymore~.
Basically, git gud, fuck off, thanks pal.

[Anonymous No.4301356]

>>4301351
>it's just faster for me to let you wallow in your own fucking ignorance and get on with my life than to care about some random fucking shitposter
Yet you sit here and type shit like this.

[Anonymous No.4301377]

>>4301356
Do you think that typing is something that is excessively difficult? Is the home row method not something that you're aware of? I mean, it's basically the Loomis level fundamentals for typing, so that you can type anything you desire about as fast as you can think about it. It's even faster than dictation in most cases as there's no need to have to translate things into verbal communication that then needs to be interpreted.
Typing is not difficult nor time consuming. Trying to get around the dumbfuck notions that people have, to the point where they can't even fucking fathom how idiotic and misunderstood everything they're saying is, is far more of a pain.
Anyways enjoy the thirty seconds or so that it took me to type this, it's probably the most impact you will ever have on anybody artistically with how fucking much of a moron you are.

[Anonymous No.4301379]

>>4301377
You don't need to defend yourself.
It's obvious you are trying to do damage control now that you've been called out on your ironic shit.
Stand down, anon. Nobody really gives a fuck.

[Anonymous No.4301383]

>>4301379
>It's obvious you are trying to do damage control now that you've been called
How strongly do you believe that? Is there no possibility, absolutely NO possibility, that there's an alternate explanation for my disdain for absolutely everything that you've said?
Just another self-fellating assumption you're making there. The best part though is that by holding onto all this dumb shit that you think so strongly without ever attempting to self reflect on it, you'll only be damaging yourself in the long term. No skin off my back.

[Anonymous No.4302469]

>>4300507
Pretty much.

[Anonymous No.4302501]

>>4301383
dude why you coming at everybody with this life coaching crap, somebody told u to sit down and youre telling them THEY ARE ONLY DAMAGING THEMSELVES like some jojo villain holy kek

>>4300256
dear god can you sort it alphabetically finally? i dont want to waste time whenever i need to check the newest Hacks®

[Anonymous No.4302508]

>>4299146
I'm going through drawing the head and hands right now, it's kinda cool. I tried the figure drawing before but I think I'll use it more as a reference while I'm doing Hampton and Vilppu.

If someone knows of a good way to study Loomis, I'm all ears. I'm kinda taking a trial and error approach to this.

In what way did you study Loomis and how effective was it?

Thanks.

[Anonymous No.4302531]

>>4299146
I've read through a couple of his books. I'd never really heard of them before I started coming around here, I was already past college and have a career as an illustrator, so they don't really have any use for me, but they're interesting to look through. The art style of his is a great artifact for the era he was working in, for sure.

[Anonymous No.4302534]

>>4299671
That bit about Rockwell is nonsense. Rockwell admitted freely he used a projector and photographs because of the pressure of deadlines, but he COULD do the work at the same level without them. That person is mis-remembering what Rockwell wrote, or is just making it up. I have that big ass expensive Rockwell book, and I don't remember him saying he covered his work when people visited - which makes no sense anyway, if he was working on a canvas/panel, the tracing part would be over with, and he'd have no reason to hide it. I think it's more he hid the work to keep prying eyes from beating him to a cover with a specific subject (he was heavily imitated), or didn't want people to see his work when it's unfinished. If it happened at all. I don't remember ever reading that, but I can be misremembering too. See how memory works?

[Anonymous No.4302536]

>>4301344
>basede
>rertad
basede rertad

[Anonymous No.4302537]

>>4302534
>he COULD do the work at the same level without them.

Uhh no he couldn't. He would even talk about how depressed he was because he couldn't do any painting without photographs and a projector, you brainless little fucknugget.
See: https://www.wbur.org/npr/120925892/story.php

At least with how shitty your memory is there's a chance you'll forget to fucking breathe some day.

[Anonymous No.4302544]

>>4302537
>On the day that Norman Rockwell died, Clemens Kalischer slipped into his studio and took some photos: an easel, a pipe, the sun coming on to an unfinished painting. They're quiet and beautiful images. Kalischer contends the reason the painting on the easel was unfinished is because this time Rockwell was trying to paint without using photographs.
fuck

[Anonymous No.4302565]

>>4302537
Oh, someone feels extra special today, lol.

"Mr. KALISCHER: His wife was not an artist, but she painted all the time. And he would say, I don't know, Mary, she just sits down, takes a brush and paints. How does she do this? I said, why don't you do that too? He said, oh, I can't. I can't."
Translates in your feeble little mind as "Aha! He couldn't paint, he was a fraud!"

LOL.

Well, I mean, if you completely discount that it's a second hand comment from someone who knew him, not from his own mouth, and disconnect it from the context of the comments that he had become reliant on photos for the hyper-realism and things like lighting that didn't have the time to "just sit down and paint" like his wife, sure, you could think you have a point. And post a very smug, snotty reply about it, because you treat art like a slap-fest and just lurk in threads to get neckbeard points by "pwning" people. Which I guess is working for you?

But I'm sure you're feeling extra neckbeard pretty today. Euphoric, even. But you're still lacking an actual point. Odd, that.

[Anonymous No.4302571]

>>4302565
Cope

[Anonymous No.4302595]

Holy shit it pissed me off that when you google about Rockwell tracing you just get plebs saying they were shocked that he used photo reference. They don't even get to the tracing part, they think just using photo reference alone is cheating.

[Anonymous No.4302695]

>>4302571
Not that anon, but hes clearly talking about direct painting with no underlying process.
As you ingrain yourself with a process you become less and less able to work without it.

[Anonymous No.4302767]

>>4302695
what
where the fuck are you pulling that information out from, other than your dumb fucking ass

[Anonymous No.4302794]

>>4302571
Yes, you're coping extra hard. We get that.

[Anonymous No.4302831]

I read every word he wrote, and that's why I ended up dropping the book before it was finished.
Very boring, should have done the zoomer thing and just looked/copied the pictures

[Anonymous No.4302846]

>>4302767
>t.hasn't worked long enough to have a process

[Anonymous No.4302877]

>>4302846
>t.beginner symbol drawer that thinks loomis is overrated but he doesn't need loomis because he has two whole thousand twitter followers!!!

[Anonymous No.4305056]

>>4300236
Dunning-kruger really is true.

[Anonymous No.4305259]

>>4302877
>beginner symbol drawer
>2k followers
That doesn't exist, right?