The basic income

[Anonymous No.4160196]

What would a basic income mean for you and your art? Would you keep working?

[Anonymous No.4160199]

>What would a basic income mean for you and your art?
something that doesn't work, like me and my art

[Anonymous No.4160218]

>>4160196
go away Andrew Yang

[Anonymous No.4160220]

>>4160196
>everyone has a guaranteed 1000$
>rent goes up 1000$

[Anonymous No.4160221]

>>4160199
i would go to school for another 4 years and continue procrastinating on improving my art

[Anonymous No.4160232]

We need to bring back communism.

[Anonymous No.4160237]

>>4160220
this. ubi is dumb.

[Anonymous No.4160238]

>>4160232
not bring back. it's never been done correctly before. time to do it right

[Anonymous No.4160242]

It would mean 6 billion Americans would stop drawing for peanuts and me, Le Third World Shitter, would have all that vacuum in the market to fill!
Not to mention maybe some of the artists of today would become commissioners with that sweet, sweet cash!

YANG 2020!

[Anonymous No.4160243]

Thee fiddy

[Anonymous No.4160257]

>>4160243

[Anonymous No.4160265]

ubi is a crock of shit. The true nature of people come out when they get free money. Unfortunately, that usually involves drugs, liquor or gambling. free basic income just allows people who already a blight on society to misuse more money. Ubi does not end homelessness, it ensures that the homeless man's needle is full for another week while he lives on the street

that being said; I'd just use it to pay rent. Fill my fridge and git gud painting without worrying about mass appeal for my work, or pandering to an audience

[Anonymous No.4160268]

>>4160196
>>4160265
what if you just perpetually travel abroad to cheap countries where cost of living is sub 1000 and keep cashing your ubi checks? would that be illegal?

[Anonymous No.4160275]

>>4160265
You're assuming quite a lot about homeless people.
That said, a homeless person getting a check for $1000 to rent an apartment means nothing if all apartments adjust to $2000.

[Anonymous No.4160279]

>>4160268
you would have to prove residency, if you were out of the country it collects but you cant cash it out until you return.

[Anonymous No.4160283]

>>4160275
Never assume that you're not a retard ever again
pls

[Anonymous No.4160293]

what a terrible thread, good job guys. Hidden

[Anonymous No.4160295]

>>4160265
> Unfortunately, that usually involves drugs, liquor or gambling
You get all those things without free money anyway.
>free basic income just allows people who already a blight on society to misuse more money.
Yes and no. You have to take into account how many people abuse substances due to stressors related to poverty. If you give them money, that could lead to less substance abuse and overall a healthier population. If it's just purely hedonistic desire, these people will find a way, money or no money.
>Ubi does not end homelessness, it ensures that the homeless man's needle is full for another week while he lives on the street
You assume every homeless individual is like that. With UBI there will be some inevitably that will purchase homes and restart their life for every other that devolves further into degeneracy. Either way, homelessness goes down. Local economies will get more money and be better of for it.
>>4160275
That's a valid point. Yang has not really provided a solution for that other than, supply/demand "prices will adjust themselves" kind of talk.

[Anonymous No.4160296]

>>4160265
I'm a homeless artist. You're projecting.

[Anonymous No.4160306]

>>4160220
>>4160237
That's not how inflation works, brainlets.

[Anonymous No.4160307]

>>4160306
nobody said it was inflation retard

[Anonymous No.4160308]

>>4160296
How so?
Look at the average recipient of welfare/SSI.
What do they do with all their unlimited free time and money?
Playing video games.
Doing drugs.
Drinking liquir.
Basically just sitting around being "useless eaters"

Absolutely none of them are using that income to better themselves or their current situation. And the same will happen if UBI becomes a reality.

[Anonymous No.4160310]

>>4160307
Then why would imply people's cost of living would just randomly go up because they had a guaranteed extra 1k each month if you were not referring to inflation?
Dumbfuck.

[Anonymous No.4160314]

>>4160310
Inflation happens when too much money is printed, decreasing its' value. Yang's already told everyone UBI will not print any new money.
If you own an apartment complex that is getting tons of demand from new UBI enabled citizens, you either increase the supply (harder option) or make it harder to get (lazy option)
You were too busy calling people brainlets to think harder, lul.

[Anonymous No.4160323]

>>4160314
>Inflation happens when too much money is printed
*Inflation happens when the Federal Reserve prints more money than they actually have, I.E. money that's not backed by gold.

>Yang's already told everyone UBI will not print any new money
No shit, because UBI wouldn't cause inflation as I already said before.

Know what your talking about before you try to shit on an idea.

[Anonymous No.4160326]

>>4160323
> money that's not backed by gold
holy shit

[Anonymous No.4160330]

>>4160314
>You were too busy calling people brainlets to think harder, lul.
oh the irony

[Anonymous No.4160331]

When this world is ashes and we are all either dead or in paradise, I will still make art, because it is in my nature to do so. With no worries about paying bills or feeding myself I would probably make much more art.

[Anonymous No.4160335]

>>4160265
>>4160295
>>4160196
That would solve literally all my life's problems because that's more than the money I would like to make as an artist, but considering >>4160220 and >>4160308 I'd rather not have it.
Human beings are garbage, and anything free and public means the money disappears along the way. Yesterday I walked past a sports betting center that had its door open and I saw a rapefugee in there. Public parks are dumpsters. People don't deserve free things. The only way to do this would be to get rid of cash and monitor or hard limit people's spending so they can only buy necessities, but necessities are all subjective and I would rather eat white rice every day than give up my dog or painting.

[Anonymous No.4160336]

>>4160296
Do you shit in skidrow also?

[Anonymous No.4160338]

>>4160310
>>4160306
>>4160323
this has nothing to do with inflation.
>land is a sellers market, renters have essentially zero negotiating power
>rents are priced at whatever the market will bear
>every single us citizen is given 1000 extra dollars
>market adjusts accordingly
just look at what happened with college tuition and student loans. if scarcity remains basically the same, there's no reason for a landowner not to gouge their rates, they're underutilizing their assets otherwise especially when they now have a government backed guarantee you'll be good for it.
>>4160279
what if you just paid a relative like 50$ a month to cash the check and send it to you?

[Anonymous No.4160382]

>>4160196
I think it would be great. I would fill the world with beautiful, inspiring artworks. I think the impact of some kind of UBI on the huge swaths of very skilled, yet underfunded professional and semi-pro artists would be profound.

[Anonymous No.4160394]

>>4160196
>What would a basic income mean for you and your art?
Nothing, because UBI is impossible.

[Anonymous No.4160429]

>>4160394
It’s not impossible, just not realistic in the long term. Just like raising minimum wage, it’s a sweet story told to young kids to make them believe something that isn’t real. As someone who grew up poor and before there was a federal minimum income tax, it’s like seeing the same greasy snake oil salesman come to your neighborhood every decade and peddle to the young, desperate, and stupid.

[Anonymous No.4160496]

ubi = enslavement by jews

government can now do whatever it wants to you under threat of cutting your ubi.

[Anonymous No.4160552]

>>4160196
>>4160220
UBI is shit in medium and long term if we assume the market will stay as it is, that's for sure, as it will have a similar effect to raising the minimum wage aka raising basic needs prices as those have workers that need to be paid more too yada yada

That said that's ignoring why the UBI talk even happens right now. We are headed to a huge loss of lower level jobs at a faster level than before and there are question about accommodating people in case no new jobs open in the market. Doubt that even in that context its going to be a long term solution but it might work to keep people mind at ease while we transition to whatever new system we will have.

As for the artists type, half good half bad, it will make too many "i do it for fun" fags that feel no need to improve coz they have a living from ubi and will flood the internet w mediocre anty anime art. On the other side it will mean more people will be able to pay u for the art u make as they dont need to worry that much of what they eat tomorrow making smaller indies and commissioners flourish

tldr. ubi is bad in current economy, decent in the context of why its even considered, and double edged for artists

[Anonymous No.4161683]

>>4160196
it'd make me focus on art and not everything else in life that a lot of attention and stress yes

[Anonymous No.4161691]

id be going to art classes. which is what ive always wanted to do.

[Anonymous No.4161958]

>>4160220
If they do It'll just be an opportunity for me to undercut them.

[Anonymous No.4162154]

implying we don't already have something like that just disguised as legitimate pay for gender studies specialists or diversity quota managers and other likewise bullshit
>but, but, anon... at least they DO something for the money!
yeah, and that's the problem. in a lot of cases them NOT doing anything at all would be a better outcome.

[Anonymous No.4162162]

>>4160552
b-but we'll have robots to do all the jobs, r-right?

[Anonymous No.4162167]

>>4160196
Apart from the fact that I don't believe that UBI is something that actually works on a societal scale, I most definitely wouldn't work provided I have enough money to get through the month. I would paint all day every day and eventually try to sell it. I would love to teach other people how to paint.

[Anonymous No.4162656]

I'd quit my wagecuck job, maybe take a vacation for a short time to relieve stress and enjoy life. After that I'd focus on my hobbies. Art, and other things that have potential to make money, yes. A lot more time to do fun and useless stuff too. If my art isn't making enough money on top of the basic income I might try to find a part time job that I enjoy more than my current one, or just focus harder on getting better.
Though the talk of everyone just drinking and playing games at home. As another poster said, a lot of this talk is due to entry level jobs disappearing. They'd be out of a job and "useless" anyway, does it matter if they're spending their time on vidya?And if they're keeping a job, even less reason to care how they use their free time.
Also regarding substance abuse. During all my young days as a neet I never once did that. But after years of being a wage slave I've moved to using legal substances to help with stress and the general depression of low income, yeah. I don't see a high need for it if I'm just more free to do what I want.
I don't know if it'd work out, but an extra 1k a month would make my life a lot cushier.

[Anonymous No.4163227]

>>4160196
If I had rent, food, gas and light covered by default I'd spend half my former working hours making products for society6/redbubble/etc for hobby cash and the other half doing personal work or teaching others to draw.

That assuming the kikes don't make life 300% more expensive because goyim are slaves that need to be punished for existing.

[Anonymous No.4163234]

>>4160308
The majority of welfare recipients are rural white farmers, the people risking their lives daily so that you can keep eating.

The fact that immigrants and blacks are shit people doesn't mean social security doesn't work.

[Anonymous No.4163238]

>>4162656
It's all jealousy. "How dare those people not suffer working useless inhuman jobs like I did?", petty little cunts that would rather not advance so that others have to have it as "hard" as they did.

Capitalism requires some jobs to stop existing, it also requires the people formerly doing those jobs to continue to have a purchasing power and 40yo former janitors are not becoming engineers out of the blue, they're janitors in the first place because that's what their capabilities allowed them.

Some sort of allowance for the useless members of society is an inevitability because large scale automation will happen decades if not centuries before post-scarcity.

[Anonymous No.4163649]

>>4160196
It would be nice but I'd definitely keep looking for work. I'd like my work to make some money one day, then I can say I made it, at least financially anyway.

[Anonymous No.4164070]

>>4160196
I would use it to pay someone to teach me how to draw since I can't learn it on my own.

[Anonymous No.4164530]

You children are so precious. Thinking that ubi will ‘set you free’ and there won’t be an obvious economic adjustment is just silly. It’s more reasonable To start looking into vanlife.

[Anonymous No.4165083]

>>4163238

>Capitalism requires some jobs to stop existing

And government intervention too. Thanks to this green agenda push about 50k + jobs were lost in my country because they cant be done anymore because of emissions. The ones going on about welfare sponges are usually the same class that gets rid of these kind of jobs because they are too dirty.

[Anonymous No.4165623]

>>4160238
Listen up you utopian idealist, we'll revolt, we'll guillotine every single bouj who refuses the gulag and then we'll establish the greatest socialism ever known to man, and you and all your radlib friends will either comply or take the communally owned train to Alaska.
I will personally ensure the scientific advancement of humanity and your infantile disorder won't stop me.

[Anonymous No.4165668]

>>4164530
>obvious economic adjustment
There could be a solution to that too. A final solution.

[Anonymous No.4165674]

>>4165623
>t. petrov, relentlessly bullied at school for flying his yugoslavia flag.

[Anonymous No.4165690]

>>4165674
From grade 10 on I was actively bullying every class I attended with dialectical materialism.

[Anonymous No.4165700]

>>4162167
>I would paint all day every day and eventually try to sell it. I would love to teach other people how to paint.
Then the UBI is giving value to work that is actually important to you and could be of benefit to others. That's its potential for many people.

[Anonymous No.4165760]

>>4160196

I'd keep working because I'm a school teacher and being there for students matters to me regardless of financial needs. I think it would free up a lot of mental space dedicated to savings that I could use for trying to improve art instead.

[Anonymous No.4165762]

>>4160265

Are there any studies showing that people who get ubi just spend it on things like this?

[Anonymous No.4165822]

>>4165762
No, the opposite, I think. Really poor, desperate people who are suddenly given some kind of social assistance for rent or medical bills actually stop spending money on self-medicating coping substances like (illegal) drugs, alcohol and tobacco. It makes sense from a psychological standpoint. If you're destitute, you're likely depressed. If you're depressed, you attempt to address it with whatever tools are within your means. It's a huge leap of faith to make for many people, because it flies in the face of indoctrinated beliefs than most human beings are inherently bad people who actually desire to be bad people. Personally, I believe that most people inherently desire to be good people, whether or not they have the means to be.

As the topic pertains to artists, I think there is no downside to some kind of ubi. We all desire to divest our creativity from marketability. There is always some kind of pet project we want to do. But it gets beaten out of us over the years, or gets queered by the illusion that money is what makes artworks valid. Just look at all the making it threads on this board.

[Anonymous No.4166138]

>>4165822
I know this isn't exactly the same as UBI, but in Germany there's social support of unemployed people, which has no time limit (Hartz IV it's called). So you get a fixed amount of money every month plus the state pays for every expense that is considered minimal basic needs (which actually covers a lot of shit).

Turns out, they most certainly do not spend whatever money they have on beautiful things, but instead they spend it on bad food, tobacco and alcohol. The program created this new class of long-time unemployed people, i.e. people who completely refuse to work, often for generations, and waste away their lives doing absolutely nothing.

Those of course aren't 100% of them, but I think there is just a personality type of people, highly avoidant and inherently lazy, that will exhibit only the worst characteristics when exposed to a UBI. In a culture that requires work to survive, they are forced to step out of it, in a culture that does not, they lose all drives but hedonistic desires.They definitely do exist and it's not pretty.

>It's a huge leap of faith to make for many people, because it flies in the face of indoctrinated beliefs than most human beings are inherently bad people who actually desire to be bad people. Personally, I believe that most people inherently desire to be good people, whether or not they have the means to be.
The words "bad" and "good" aren't exactly useful in this context, because they require some objective to mean anything. This is a question of meaning and purpose for people, and it turns out that for many people that meaning comes from working and sustaining themselves and their families. If you take that away from them, they most certainly wither in depression, agoraphobia and whatnot. I see where your attitude comes from, most people who are attracted by ideas such as UBI simply do not belong to this group of people and by nature don't know anyone like that. Thus it's easy to assume they don't exist.

[Anonymous No.4166203]

>>4163238
>Some sort of allowance for the useless members of society is an inevitability because large scale automation will happen decades if not centuries before post-scarcity.
Post scarcity is myth bro, it is objectively impossible.

[Anonymous No.4166217]

>>4166203
Then why are we already in a post-scarcity world? The only thing preventing everybody from simply living their life nice and well is artificial destruction or obstruction of resources.

[Anonymous No.4166219]

>>4166217
Elaborate

[Anonymous No.4166322]

>>4165623
I sure don't want to be in your head to witness how you envision this all playing out.
This is mental illness

[Anonymous No.4167050]

>>4165822
It does have a lot to do with the person. Getting money you feel you don't deserve generates guilt which is why most lottery winners squander the money buying shit for and gifting money to everyone who asks.

Problem is, guiltless people exist, and they happen to be a majority among the poor. Criminals don't only come from poverty because they need to, they're fit for hurting others for profit because of intellectual and emotional underdevelopment resulting in antisocial behaviors.

[Anonymous No.4167069]

>>4166219
A full meal in Mexico costs $10, the same full meal costs $25 in California. Texas alone can feed 4B people and it's not the only breadbasket in the world. It's not even the no. 1 food producer in the USA. And yet the whole continent of Africa is starving. The average chinese citizen has less purchasing power than the average latin american, but companies all over the world bend over to their oligarch billionaires who pool their money to pull off world wide cultural subversion. The USA keeps gifting billions to Israel off people's taxes with the excuse that they buy the military jets we produce, with a fraction of our own money.

There's people in the world who don't want the world to be plentiful and peaceful because a plentiful and peaceful world doesn't need them. Those people are in the military, the banks, organized crime. And they either own or have their guns pointing at every world government to keep things as they are and prevent a better world from happening. We have the resources, we have the will, but we will have to go to war with those people to reach the next step in human social development.

[Anonymous No.4167109]

>>4160196
I would have to keep working because my rent would skyrocket. Basic income is like expecting the state to give the working class an unlimited strike fund; it's nothing more than a cheap substitute for social services and would never help maximize the free time I need to focus on my art.
>>4160265
Aside from that abloo bloo, it's not like you'd be given a choice.
>>4160338
This anon here gets it; housing can neither affordable AND a good investment. If you want basic income to have any chances of working, then you need to guarantee everyone in the United States adequate housing first (which we are perfectly capable of doing), but that would entail restructuring our housing market in such a way that is fundamentally at odds with the way we treat housing today. Japan did this after their housing market collapsed in 1989; we unfortunately didn't after 2008.

[Anonymous No.4167248]

>>4167109

What did Japan do with housing. I thought it was prohibitively expensive there.

[Anonymous No.4167298]

>>4167248
The government basically made it easier to rezone land, effectively nationalizing the housing market, and deeply incentivized mixed-use (re)developments. This ensured that in Japan, homes are depreciating assets; they're treated as just places to live. Whereas in the United States, homes are expected to appreciate in value indefinitely regardless as to whether or not people are actually living in them. This, combined with our strict single-use zoning laws has ensured that any attempt to make housing affordable will be fought tooth and nail by market forces.

[Anonymous No.4168135]

>>4167298
This is reasonable in the US though, as in the US there are tons of places where land is at effective unit price (literally in Detroit: If you'll pay property taxes and pay for cleanup/house rebuilding, you can buy a home there for 1$. This isn't true in Japan because pic related.

On an island nation where there's nowhere else to go, housing prices continuously increasing means people become permanently homeless and a source of serious political unrest.

On the continental US, if urban housing prices become preposterous, nothing is stopping people from purchasing less desirable homes in under-and-undeveloped areas like Wyoming: the US is just that huge.

Besides all this, there's a good case you want urban prices to keep rising. A natural equilibrium is reached when an area's prices cap out, in effect saying
>This town is too big and if you don't have an economically good reason to be here, consider other towns
And in all honesty, this is a good thing.

SF _is_ too big. LA _is_ too big. Seattle _is_ too big. New York City _is_ too big. This pressure of "too bigness" creates new big cities, which will create more, new, and better jobs than if we LARP that we're all on an island nation that needs to nuke real estate prices from orbit to prevent mass homelessness and insurrection.

[Anonymous No.4168152]

>>4160196
fuck off commie

[Anonymous No.4168179]

>>4168135
>nothing is stopping people from purchasing less desirable homes in under-and-undeveloped areas

most of these places have been gutted economically or simply had very limited job prospects to begin with. this obviously isn't an issue for drawfags since we can work remotely without much of a hassle but that still isn't true for the vast majority of trades. desu im kind of split on whether it's a better choice to move somewhere comfy innawoods like alaska or mt or to just move to one of the nicer 2nd world countries & use the the money saved on living expenses to either work less or travel more.

>This pressure of "too bigness" creates new big cities
bugmen should stay in their coastal shitheaps, we don't want them here.

[Anonymous No.4168183]

I JUST WANNA EARN 600 DOLLARS A MONTH THIS WOULD BE ENOUGH IN POLAND

[Anonymous No.4168186]

>>4168183
is poland comfy?

[Anonymous No.4168188]

>>4168186
what do i know i never leave my room

[Anonymous No.4168196]

>>4168188
>checked
based hikki

[Anonymous No.4168250]

>>4168135
In Japan, the housing market is so flat that local governments are literally handing out homes for free; who wouldn't want that? Supply more than meets demand, so Japanese people already have enough incentives to redevelop existing properties thanks to the national government's rezoning efforts. We're never gonna see something like that happening in Detroit without significant government intervention.
>nothing is stopping people from purchasing less desirable homes in under-and-undeveloped areas
Not everyone has the necessary upward mobility that's required to do so, especially for emerging and working artists like ourselves. You essentially saying, 'if you don't like it then move somewhere else!" is never gonna cut it.
>And in all honesty, this is a good thing.
This completely sidesteps sustainability issues regarding how our towns and cities are planned. Just because you can build anywhere, doesn't mean you should. Our country's emphasis on strict single-use zoning has created nothing but sprawling suburban blight towns and forests of empty elevator shafts; no reasonable person wants more of that. Meanwhile, the declining number of homeowners continue to clutch their pearls. It's not just the fact that people complain our cities are "too big" but rather because they're simply *not dense* enough to satisfy their basic needs.

[Anonymous No.4168330]

>>4168186
Of course. Many pop culture video games are inspired by our country. Have you not played great games memory of us, papers please, fallout. Do you not see everyone coming here for good happy times in frigid wonderland of browns and greys? Come, join in the festivities today!

[Anonymous No.4168366]

>>4168330

Fuck no. I heard about the drowner problem over there.

[Anonymous No.4168379]

>>4168186
I was born in Poland and lived in other countries. What's comfy about it is that despite the low prices the standard of living is very good. The food is tasty and varied, there's central heating everywhere, you can pay for everything with Apple Pay and proximity cards, big cities have a working public transport system, education and health care are free, there's literally all the first world commodities available. Sadly the government is absolute shite, Poles buy very easily into the "free moneyz!!!" political bullshit and as a result the cost of living is on the rise but it's fine, at least for now

[Anonymous No.4168422]

>>4160335
The point is that it would be universal though. Refugees and the destitute are often already getting welfare. In general, most everyone would be a bit happier and financially secure. I'd just invest it and make more money in the stock market. The stock market performing well is great but I'd need 300k or more in the market to be making 1000 usd every month off dividends.

[Anonymous No.4168543]

>>4168250
Yeah, Manhattan can be comfy for the non-uber rich because you get everything close, housing is absurdly expensive but is legit worth it and you can move from side to side relatively fast. LA and Seattle are fucking hell because everything is too far apart, traffic is murderous and everyone insists on living in the suburbs and driving in to work because the cities themselves are shit to live in,

American cities don't crumble under their own weight because they're huge, they fail because they're full of nothing and as soon as the thing that made people go there is done, like the motor industry in Detroit, the steel industry in Pittsburgh and techie jobs in San Francisco, the city turns into unlivable crap.

[Anonymous No.4169000]

>>4160323
He literally said the exact same fucking thing but with less info. And you didn't even refute the actual argument. You fucking brainlet.

[Anonymous No.4169002]

>>4168379
But can Poland into Space?

[Anonymous No.4169954]

We either get UBI or revolution because killing jobs for the bottom layer of society is not how you get a happy population. France and Chile are already burning because they lost a couple hundred thousand jobs, America stands to lose millions.

[Anonymous No.4170082]

>>4169954
And then what? What happens once you get UBI?

[Anonymous No.4170135]

>>4169954
The gradual reduction of labor hours down to its eventual abolition quite frankly *is* the revolutionary goal for any working class movement. Go back nearly a century (even in the United States) and you'll find labor activists parading the necessity of a four day work week. Communism has always been best characterized as people having free time and nothing else. I don't have the time to focus much on my art because I have to work at a dead end job with which I hate. This is what causes some people to think that implementing UBI is a socialist policy, when doing so under present-day conditions would only gut what little protections and bargaining power the working class still have. It's something to implement after we've resolved capitalism's contradictions, not before.

[Anonymous No.4170145]

cry babies that want handouts.
nothing is free retards.
nobody owes you shit.

draw me free pictures.

[Anonymous No.4170192]

>>4167069
>There's people in the world who don't want the world to be plentiful and peaceful because a plentiful and peaceful world doesn't need them. Those people are in the military, the banks, organized crime.
No, they are everywhere. It's not a few dozen people who conspire to watch the world burn, it's part of human nature. We draw lines, we divide the world into us and them, and there is nothing that will ever stop that. You can try to kill them off, as people have been trying for the most part of the 20th century, but you will just create a new dynamic where the same kind of people that have been ruining the world before are ruining the world now. Your utopia doesn't exist. The best we can do is try our best to make sure we are all playing the same game, but people will still win and lose.

[Anonymous No.4170261]

>>4170082
Without UBI
>The poor and now useless become a massive drain on social security
>the low income's future is jeopardized by the social security deficit and inability to save because of how little they earn
>the middle class are severely affected by the crime caused by having a massive population of useless people who can't get jobs and barely subsist on gives, their ability to invest is crippled and luxury items become prohibitive
>the rich see a massive decrease in earnings as the consumer base just doesn't have money to spend in their products, new investments become dangerous and expansion slows down to a crawl putting us in a recession
>the kikes laugh like this is not gonna bite them in the ass in the end, their hatred for goyim blinds them to their self-destructive ways. Non-kike billionaires don't understand why the government won't help them solve the situation

With UBI
>the would be destitute can afford their medicines and housing, but not much else. They die off peacefully.
>the low income can now save some money at the end of the month, putting less strain on social security and allowing the government to spend on other services like public transport
>the middle class has more chances to invest and expand their estates, a drastic increase in startups and therefore a drastic increase in available jobs is achieved
>the rich see full green in all fronts for the first time in decades with the entire population being able to afford their products and services, production can be brought back to domestic and scaled down without risk of bankruptcy to appease the environmentalists and politicians
>kikes are mortified by the diminishing class struggle and call everyone participating anti-semites. Non-kike billionaires see stable growth and are pleased by not having to spend so much in bribes and fines caused by retarded CEOs with pump and dump mentalities who are now out of jobs.

[Anonymous No.4170263]

>>4170145
No shit, it's not free, it's our fucking taxes being used properly.

[Anonymous No.4170273]

>>4170261
>the low income can now save some money at the end of the month, putting less strain on social security and allowing the government to spend on other services like public transport
I wish that was true, but I honestly doubt it. Saving money is incredibly unpopular in America. Even upper middle class families often live paycheck to paycheck, simply because they overestimate the worth of the shit they waste their money on (private schools, better food, consumer electronics, entertainment, larger cars and houses etc). It's just insane how bad the average American handles their money in a confused sense of what constitutes an "investment".

[Anonymous No.4170338]

In my country, you get a pension for looking after a disabled person. You don't get taxed on it and it's about 25,000 a year USD.

My 'disabled person' hates having anything done for them, so only when they absolutely need help do I step in and help them get dressed, or push them around in a wheelchair or something to that effect. The government doesn't ask me how much help I'm actually giving them, once they get the signature from the doctor that they do in fact need help, that's it. I get an unconditional wage.

The only exception is that if you earn anything from work, you have to tell them how much and how many hours you did, and they deduct a certain amount from your pay.

I've taken up playing Tennis, bought a mountain bike, go for rides, travel interstate to see friends, started playing the drums. I've taken up meditation sessions. I've lost 20 kilos, I can run farther, I do a bit of art teaching on the side but I don't really draw myself anymore. Getting "Back" into art after quitting the industry is the last great mental health hurdle I have to crack and I plan to do it with magic mushrooms.

But yeah. Having a UBI-lite is fucking awesome and it's improved my life tremendously.

[Anonymous No.4170352]

>>4160196

off topic thread.

>le butt idds aboud arrrrd :DDddd

fuck off to pol, this is not appropriate, UBI and politics has noting to do with getting good.

>butt i can change mi lyf3 so can haz timez 2 dreew!

then go vote for Yang, FUCK OFF WIT THIS TRASH DISCUSSION. You cucks are willing to do ANYTHING but draw.

[Anonymous No.4170387]

>>4170338
I definitely like how I work all year round in my 2nd world country to make a little over that exact amount of money with my own business, then I give up 19% of that to pay up for lazy bums just like you, and another $300/month to health care services I don't use and a pension fund I won't live long enough to get

Fucking commies reee

I'm not exactly opposing the idea of UBI in the US because their economy is so destabilised only something radical like this would bring about balance. My only concern would be that the money goes to people who actually need it and not able-bodied young adults who are too lazy to get a job or start their own business.

[Anonymous No.4170491]

>>4170387
>My only concern would be that the money goes to people who actually need it and not able-bodied young adults who are too lazy to get a job or start their own business.

And that concern of yours is what causes the administrative bloat necessary to means test every welfare recipient in the U.S. Think of all the people who are willing to work in these institutions that don't add any value to the economy beyond making sure that your concerns are addressed, who could be using their work ethic in businesses directly tied to consumer spending from the lazy people you'd rather not pay.

[Anonymous No.4170548]

>>4170491
It's 2019 and you're telling me the task of processing a simple form can't be automated?

[Anonymous No.4170590]

>>4170491
>>4170387
>>4170548
>the money goes to people who actually need it

this also creates a service gap where you have people who earn just enough not to get ssi (the current limit is absurdly low in the us, pretty much anyone who isn't a vegetable & actually makes any effort towards employment will end up earning enough to get penalized) but not enough to cover their living/medical expenses which creates absurd situations like this
>https://features.propublica.org/medical-debt/when-medical-debt-collectors-decide-who-gets-arrested-coffeyville-kansas/
the main argument in favor of ubi or an alaska style dividend is that it's non preferential & even if people blow it all on heroine and blowup dolls, that's still economic stimulus

[Anonymous No.4171053]

>>4160232
Would be funny if it wasn't so fucking destructive.

[Anonymous No.4171098]

>>4170590
Oh. So it's better if to have people blowing tax dollars on meth, guns and big-screen tvs than set a reasonable criteria.
Well let me suggest something. Why don't you take this UBI money and give it to people who
>need funds to relocate in order to find a better job
>need funds to set up a business
>need funds to educate themselves in order to find a better job or set up a business
>need funds to improve their health in order to get back to the job market
and lastly
>need comfy office jobs that manage those funds on a local scale
Instead of giving it away to every lazy bum to cover debts that they themselves ran into and expenses that they probably don't need.

And pay your goddamn waiters the minimum wage. This whole tip culture is degrading and ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.4171163]

Bernie is better for artists than a Yang presidency would be. I'd much rather have national rent control, public uni, and being able to visit a doctor/dentist/therapist with no co-pays or deductibles over the meme of 1000 dolla a month.

[Anonymous No.4171174]

fuk yah 1000/mo would help so many. bernie and yang are my top 2 let’s throw tulsi into the mix and draw/paint flower power memes for the future.

it would help me with getting better help like mixing in holistic treatment and curbing my sads so i can practice more probably. and getting better paint/canvasses, transportation, food and rent money etc. ubi is future forward thinking.

[Anonymous No.4171192]

>>4171098
Have you heard of ubi before 5 seconds ago? I'm not even a proponent, but I at least try to understand what the point is

[Anonymous No.4171209]

>>4171174
Ok if you still don't get it, let me explain it to you in another way

In 2016 Poland has started giving handouts of $130 per child to every family regardless of background and income. Here we are 3 years later, prices of goods and real estate have risen accordingly, social welfare cost is about to increase by over 10% next year (biggest increase in history), there's a massive inflation, people are still poor and the local governments are running out of funds to cover the expenses. I believe the aim of the program was to increase the birth rate in Poland. According to statistics, to no effect.

This is what happens if you admit just $130 per child in a small country like Poland. Now imagine if everyone in a massive country like the US was to get an extra 1000 bucks.

[Anonymous No.4171212]

>>4171053
If you broadened your historical frame of reference by even a smidgen then you'd have realized that the United States and France were as close to liberty as Russia and China were to communism. They are all abject failures with regards to what their revolutions sought to accomplish. And just to be sure, liberalism emerged in the 17th century to make up for the failures of absolutism, and socialism emerged in the 19th century to make up for the failures of liberalism. We don't know what exactly is gonna replace socialism, but rejecting it wholesale because the consequences of past revolutions makes you uncomfortable is just stupid.

[Anonymous No.4171219]

>>4171192
I read all about it on Yang's website and this sounds another one of those things that work fantastic in theory, but brings out the worst in people in reality. Don't get me wrong, I think communism is a beautiful concept, the only issue with it is that it doesn't fucking work.

[Anonymous No.4171240]

>>4171219
Implementing UBI under present day conditions would only serve to calcify what inequalities people are already experiencing. It would utterly castrate the working class and put their needs entirely at the whims of the state. That doesn't sound very communist to me. There is revolutionary potential in the hikikomori life but begging the capitalist state to give you $1000/mo isn't how you do it.

[Anonymous No.4171277]

>>4171240
>There is revolutionary potential in the hikikomori life
pic related

[Anonymous No.4171873]

>>4171163
freelancers already get fucked over with a retardedly high taxrate that gives us absolutely nothing in return. entrepreneurship is anathema to socialists and the end result of statist policy is inevitably regulatory capture, either by the state itself or by a cabal of mega corporations who can afford to put their hand on the scale to make sure they never have to compete with anyone.
>>4171209
polanon gets it, free money doesn't mean shit no matter how big you make the number unless it's paired with aggressive market controls and doing so has all kinds of unpredictable results that are much more likely to kill off creator owned businesses than the disneys of the world who have a big enough cash reserve and, not to mention, financier backing to ride out almost anything.
anyone falling for the free shit meme should watch the rhythm and hues documentary and see how government handouts unintentionally killed every independently owned vfx studio. or just look at the stupid shit california just pulled with AB5.

[Anonymous No.4172047]

>>4171873
the taxrate is set by people that don't give a fuck about the American people in addition to 70 percent of it going to endless wars. A Sanders presidency would not only change how things are taxed, but how tax dollars are spent. I'm totally fine with paying for taxes if they go towards everyone having medical, dental, eyeglasses, and mental health covered.

[Anonymous No.4172117]

>>4160196
It would mean I'd have energy left to do art.

[Anonymous No.4172120]

>>4171240
>put their needs entirely at the whims of the state.
>That doesn't sound very communist to me.
Fucking pick one you inept retarded socialist scum.

[Anonymous No.4172137]

>>4171219
What I meant is, the whole reason ubi exists is because some libertarian was like "hey, if we stopped paying a bunch of bureaucrats to figure out who deserves money, we could give the same amount of money to the people who deserve it, and also everyone else gets some money". You can argue about whether the math checks out, or you can argue on some moral grounds that we shouldn't give money to the "undeserving" even if it's economically rational, but if you say "instead of wasting money on ubi, let's spend the money more selectively" you're missing the whole point

[Anonymous No.4172149]

>>4172120
Anon, contrary to popular belief, communism being a "classless, stateless society where the means of production are owned by the workers" doesn't mean "turn everything everything into an oligarchical, bureaucratic nightmare." It's not my fault that nearly every socialist state that has attempted transitioning to communism (and wasn't immediately overthrown by a CIA-backed coup) ended up that way.

[Anonymous No.4172162]

What would happen if an American decided to (illegally) move out of their country? Say you have American citizenship and one day you just go live in some poorfag country like Ukraine, Greece or Thailand. Do they still transfer $1000 to your account every month? Cause that's a pretty decent salary in some places in the world. If that's the case, that is stupid and irresponsible as fuck.

[Anonymous No.4172187]

>>4172162
What would happen if an American decided to (illegally) rob a bank?

[Anonymous No.4172527]

>>4171212
>pattern recognition
>stupid
Nice essay, though. Very large brain stuff.

[Anonymous No.4172604]

I, for one, am only in favor of continuining to give tax dollars from working and middle class people to the wealthy and corporations since they stimulate the economy with new jobs. Peons would just squander any free shit or tax breaks they were to receive. Luckily, it wouldn't work anyway; wealthy people and corporations would just start charging proportionately more for everything the poors might buy. Artists still have a place in the world if they are good enough to make what the serious people with actual taste (non-peasants) want. Natural order.

[Anonymous No.4172613]

>>4172527
>bro don't worry about doing anything bro it's okay bro here's your $1000/mo bro just trust me bro everything will be alright bro let's get this bread

[Anonymous No.4172619]

>>4172187
Dafuq are you talking about
It's a whole lot easier to move out illegally than rob a bank. Who tf will care about documentation and papers in some shithole like Egypt or Montenegro? Even if you actually get a permit from the foreign state, what does it change? According to Yang's plan there is no institution in place to verify anything. You're 18+ and an American citizen, you get UBI.
The more you think about this shit, the more dangerous it seems.

[Anonymous No.4173388]

>>4172604
>I, for one, am in favor of my wife being fucked by other men. Their dicks are so big!!

[Anonymous No.4173392]

>>4172604
30 nanoshekels have been deposited in your account

[Anonymous No.4173447]

>>4172604
hope he sees this bro

[Anonymous No.4175099]

>>4172613
>implying I'm Yang Gang
Bunch of wingnuts.

[Anonymous No.4175108]

>>4172527
people die in revolutions? wack

[Anonymous No.4175112]

>>4173388
..h-hot

[Anonymous No.4175175]

>>4160196
I would settle for free health insurance as I have aged out of my parents' plan and am having to spend up my savings. I probably have enough money to last until Medicare-for-all inevitably becomes a thing, I just wish it would come sooner.

[Anonymous No.4175185]

>>4175175
>medicare for all becomes a thing
>everyone finally realizes how shitty medicare is
go ask any old or disabled person about medicare and you'll hear about how many constant fucking headaches they have to deal with

[Anonymous No.4175470]

>>4175185
yeah because they still have copays and all the bullshit plaguing regular health insurance. Medicare For All gives seniors more shit like free hearing aids, eyeware. dental care, in addition to there being no deductibles orco-pays. Medicare For All not only expands, it improves.

[Anonymous No.4175473]

>>4160196

Trandrew Wang gang in the house.
gtfo

[Anonymous No.4175539]

>>4172604
>Artists still have a place in the world if they are good enough to make what the serious people with actual taste (non-peasants) want.
>actual taste
Non-peasants only buy abstract modern art

[Anonymous No.4177755]

>>4171277
>Doing nothing and being a nonfunctional member of society is revolutionary

Not really; any revolution that ever happens happens in spite of, not because of, NEETs, and in any post revolution period, NEETs are always first to end up getting worked to death/gulag'd. NEETs are pretty universally unwanted.

[Anonymous No.4177797]

>>4177755
NEETs are lumpen to be sure; their refusal of work is certainly at the expense of others. But they're not at all the first ones to get worked to death or gulag'd in post- revolutionary scenarios. They're only seen as unwanted because their actions aren't directly moving towards abolishing the present state of things. Fact is, the communist ideal of abolishing wage labor would turn a lot of people into NEETs and y'know what? That'd be okay. However, so long as we live under the dictatorship of capital that just ain't gonna happen.

[Anonymous No.4177812]

>>4160196
>What would a basic income mean for you
All my expenses would be covered assuming its £10k per year
>Your art
Not much, apart from I can blow more money on tradition art resources such as paints etc.
>Would you keep working?
Yes so that I can get a nice comfy house without pulling out mortgage. If I'am pulling out one, I'm not going over £600 per month (which is my current rent).

[Anonymous No.4178131]

Retards in this thread pretending that all or even most landlords are price gouging mustache twirling lunatics are missing the bigger picture, even if all that was true.

Turn the clock forward a century or two, the vast majority of people will literally not be able to find jobs because they won't exist thanks to AI and automation. UBI is absolutely inevitable. We may as well get a head start

[Anonymous No.4178645]

>>4160196
Universal Basic Income is a stupid idea. In developed countries, welfare already exists for people who really need it, although the welfare system does get abused, it's not as bad as taking money from people who work, and giving it to others who are able but unwilling to work.

[Anonymous No.4178657]

>>4178645
at least in america, the problem is that ssi is extremely prohibitive while also not providing enough to cover the average cost of living in most parts of the us

[Anonymous No.4178873]

If you don't work you fucking starve.

If I was in power I would have malingerers shot.

>"but muh disabilities"
The state will assign you work, then. And if you fuck it up you get shot too.

I dream of a world where every man, woman, and child is put to use. In such a world, welfare would be unnecessary.