Make Comics Great Again

[Anonymous No.3865059]

Western comics have been getting less and less popular for the past 30 years while manga has been exploding in popularity.

How can we, in the west, change our own comics industry for the better?

[Anonymous No.3865062]

>>3865059
>western comics
American mainstream capeshit because Eurocomics are fine

[Anonymous No.3865064]

Honestly capeshit should've died out long ago

[Anonymous No.3865069]

All the decisions in a manga are made by the author, the person who writes and draws the story that he wants, and if it's popular it sells well. That's the ultimate dream for an artist that draws comics/manga, to be able to share your own story and art to the world and make a living off of it.

But in the comics industry, you find yourself working under multiple people, the story is not yours, the characters are not yours, the art must follow a style guide, and you may not even be permitted to ink it yourself, or even you may be in the position where inking someone elses art is all you do.
It's a big machine and you are just a small cog.
This is not as artistically fulfilling as the manga for artists.


From an artists stance, I don't want to draw someone elses story, I want to draw my own comic, in manga, you can do that and if it's good you will make it.
How can we change the western comics industry to allow artists this creative freedom?

There could be a whole wealth of imagination in the west just waiting to show itself, endless new styles of art, brilliant stores and characters, but they are held down by the seemingly too powerful publishers here that control the industry

[Anonymous No.3865074]

>>3865059
USA comic book industry has pretty much completely crashed >90% due to large scale infestation of insane ideologues that turn every hero into a black tranny and make every bad business decision humanly possible. At least capeshit movies sell. Plenty good comic artists still around they just use crowdfunding and self publish or some shit. Just leave them to it and leave the dead husk of the industry to implode, I don't know what suggestions you expect to see here

[Anonymous No.3865075]

>>3865069
I forgot to mention, and I ought to before someone says it for me

Yes I know the publishers in manga also interfere with the manga being made, leading to characters changing and stories ending or extending more than they should.
But it is not nearly as overbearing as in the western industry, for the most part a manga is the result of the sole author, they can confidently say that their manga is their manga in its entirety.

You can't do that in the west, no single person wrote that spiderman comic, it is the product of probably over 5 people sharing the writing, art and everything else

[Anonymous No.3865080]

So to get the discussion going in the right direction before it devoles into a debate over what's better between the two...

It's clear that the industry model of Marvel and DC needs to go, it works for mass production and money, not for artists and creativity.

What is the state of the other smaller areas of the western comics scene? the webcomics world, the eurocomics, the countless small individual published comics.

In those we see the creative freedom that is so liberating for manga artists in Japan... but these comics are far less popular than the Marvel and DC, and that's saying something for how unpopular those two have become.

What can we do to increase the popularity of that comic industry and make it as big as manga?

[Anonymous No.3865100]

>>3865062
Ok, let’s get this shit straight once and for all:

Comics = USA
Manga = Japan
Bande Dessinée = Europe

Ok? Ok.

When people talk shit about comics, they’re not talking shit about TinTin, or Asterix, they’re talking shit about the garbage that spews out from the USA.

>>3865059
Never, it’s too late for that. The industry was already stagnant and in a bad spot after the 90s, the the 2010s rolled around and the SJWs put the nail in the coffin. Marvel’s owned by Disney too, so if you thought capes hit was saturating the market, you’ve got no idea. And to top it off, Manga are outselling comics IN THE WEST. With no room or interest for the indie scene, and SJW capeshit clogging up the market, it might as well be dead.

[Anonymous No.3865101]

It's really not possible to replicate what Asia is doing in the west. To many variables while ironically being the country with freedom of speech. PC culture will tear any attempt down. We need God to hit the reset button.

[Anonymous No.3865102]

>>3865075
Plus, the indie industry is huge in Japan. You wanna make comics? Move to Europe or Japan, USA is a dead market.

[Anonymous No.3865106]

>>3865059
if we're talking about superhero comics, that is because Marvel and DC are dumping all their money into movies.
French/Belgian comics sell well and comics in general are reaching a wider audience here in europe. also think about the popularity of webcomics.
if you want to create interesting comics, get to work!

[Anonymous No.3865107]

>>3865100
BD is a France exclusive term. NO one else in europe calls their comics BDs, except the belgians. Comics are not just cape shit.

[Anonymous No.3865116]

>>3865106
For fucks sakes!!! Why do people do this? Look at OPs pic. Do you see a Franco Belgian comic? Or some shitty capeshit? Why do people always defect to Eurocomics when they know people are trashing on American comics specifically. As if that excuses anything. USA doesn’t make Eurocomics, same way it doesn’t make Japanese Manga. They even have a different style, stop associating them with Americans trash.

We call Japanese comics by their proper native name: Manga.

So can we please start doing the same for European comics? They have a proper name too, so use it. Bande Dessinée. You can call em BDs if you’re lazy. But for the love of god, stop using them as an excuse to deflect conversation away from the dogshit America publishes.

No one ever talks shit about Bande Dessinée cause we know they’re good. When people talk shit about comics, they’re almost always talking about the USA, whose BEST stuff doesn’t even come close to Japan’s or Europe’s mainstream stuff.

[Anonymous No.3865119]

>>3865107
Well, start popularizing the term. We adopted manga as a word to refer specifically to Japanese comics. BDs deserve better than to be associated with America’s trash. And people need to stop deflecting by bringing them up when people are smack-talking the USA’s lack of effort.

[Anonymous No.3865121]

>>3865074
this entire post, even without the retarded leftist bullshit in Western comics the entire capeshit genre is fucking retarded.

>create 1 character
>can't kill him off because new/original idea isn't guaranteed to sell
>create 3728658175 renditions of the same character so nerds will still buy the character even though the original character is dead and character no.2 is just some other guy wearing the same mask

Superior Spiderman was so good, you get to see the villain stepping into the shoes of his arch-nemesis and learning to adapt to his new lifestyle while using his intellect and lack of moral obligations to tackle the same issues thrown to the "dead" Parker, but of course they would have to ruin it by making the dead Peter Parker taking over the body back again so the comic can run back on track on status quo, fuck capeshit

[Anonymous No.3865128]

>>3865116
>You can call em BDs if you’re lazy. But for the love of god, stop using them as an excuse to deflect conversation away from the dogshit America publishes.

In their defense it would be pretty maddening to constantly hear someone talking shit about "Western" comic when all they meant was America, and specifically "capeshit".

But I agree with the rest of your post, it's pretty funny seeing them seething over weebs saying how western comic is trash but all they are posting are European comic >>3857851

[Anonymous No.3865131]

>>3865075
You're not entirely wrong but you should be more accurate - Mangas, successful ones anyways, don't work alone. They are the authors yes, but they don't do backgrounds and inking themselves, they have assistants. It's not that different in its work process than a western production, just that here the author is expected to know how to draw too. No one expects Dan Slott to draw his work.

Editors also routinely interfere or change the course of story in Manga if they believe it will not appeal to the audience. Cell and Buu saga are largely a result of editors telling Toriysms he needed to add content, and while it was never officially confirmed, the story was supposedly changed from Gohan being the Victor to Goku again.

What is actually different is the culture surrounding the ownership and creation of content. In Japan, there is alot of respect and credit where due to the author of a series. Shueisha does NOT need Toriyama's permission for anything in DBZ, they own it. But they still co-operate with him even thou he doesn't care, because there is a long line of respect traditionally in Japan to original creators. It makes the job of Manga author very respectable.

In the US, the only respect is given to a faceless corporation or a head honcho, very little people respected Frank Miller or Steve Ditko in the mainstream creative decisions as US tends to use community executive decisions. You are merely a cog in the publishing machine. It is not a system meant to uplift and publish original stories but to cash in on a few successful ones.

That being said, if you earn a reputation you DO get clout. The problem comes from the audience. If publishers decided to fuck over original Manga authors the japs would riot. American fans are mostly ignorant and don't care who writes their asinine capeshit stories, they look at the IP and not the creator.

[Anonymous No.3865133]

>>3865121
You say that, but Japan has been managing just fine.

If everyone stuck to Devilman and Fist of the North Star, IP like Dragoball, Jojo, or One Piece would never have been born. Plus, the willingness to let IP end with their author produced a thriving and diverse industry where there’s a manga to fulfill every possible niche with 100s off different publishers. What did America’s system create? A stagnant industry where two giants regurgitate the same garbage again and again, making it so convoluted in storytelling that it’s impossible to get into, and it only appeals to hardcore nerds.

Nerds, who btw, had no backbone when SJWs came and ruined their shit, so now it’s a dumpster cept it’s on fire.

[Anonymous No.3865134]

>>3865100
This discussion is still retarded.

Manga in America sell more than Marvel + DC, but not more than american comics as a whole.
You're comparing all manga from Japan to Marvel + DC basically.

You should compare comics with same target audience and see how they sell.
Of course One Piece sells more than any capeshit, but a manga by Naoki Urasawa does as well? (I don't know, I honestly hope so)

[Anonymous No.3865135]

>>3865131
Plenty of Mangaka work alone. Muria, Murata, and Yoshikadu all come to mind.

[Anonymous No.3865140]

>>3865134
>sold a total of 100m locally
>winner of 2 Tezuka awards
>won a fucking Pulitzer

he has all glory he can possibly want, unlike most other nationality's artists, japs are perfectly fine with just doing well in their countries, because in their mind, other countries almost doesn't exist at all.

[Anonymous No.3865143]

>>3865134
Manga sell better in the west than comics. Stop nitpicking. The most popular manga sell better than the most popular comics. More niche manga ALSO sell better than more niche comics.

>but Superman sells better than Urasawa
Well no shit buttface, it’s fucking SUPERMAN.

Clearly, manga are doing something right that comics are not though.

[Anonymous No.3865145]

>>3865135
>Miura
You mean the dude who makes a couple issues of his 30 year old Manga a year? And is also absurdly skilled at detailed environs and is in no wah a representative of average level?
> Murata
Murata is also obscenely skilled and imo outclasses Kim Jung Gi, and yet he does has a BG assistant. He also made a 100+ pages issue in one month. He is, by all definitions, an abnormality.

Dunno who Yoshidaku is, but it's a matter of fact that most successful, long running mangakas, especially bi/weekly ones, need assistants to keep up the pace.

[Anonymous No.3865147]

>>3865131
>If publishers decided to fuck over original Manga authors the japs would riot

while nips are more likely to throw tantrums when their favorite authors is getting fucked in the ass I don't like how you are implying that such occurrences are rare over in Japan.

The entirety of Jump is known to fuck over authors when they deemed it necessary, only 1 man is known to be completely free from their system.

[Anonymous No.3865148]

Capeshit is garbage I mean they let legit water heads like ethan van sciver work on'em.
manga=based medium.

[Anonymous No.3865150]

>>3865147
Jump being massive gets away with some stuff but honestly, do you imagine a situation where people would be fine with Oda, Kishimoto, or some of their other top units being replaced just like that without good reason and they would just be "..Ok?"

Japs sometimes cancel episodes and season when a favourite VA dies, what the hell makes you think they won't riot over this.

[Anonymous No.3865155]

>>3865145
Most manga are monthly, and made by one dude, maybe two at best, artist and writer. If you think the shit that gets translated is all there is in the industry you’re off the mark by a lot. It’s only the tip of the iceberg. There’s a ton of stuff in Japan that gets super popular and never makes it overseas.

2nd, how do your examples even compare to having: writer, penciled, inker, colorist, at MINIMUM, to churn our 24 pages of garbage in a month? Weekly manga have a team of roughly 3 assistants because it’s humanly IMPOSSIBLE to write and fully draw 17 pages of manga in 7 days by yourself. The creator is still fully in charge of phis story. Sure, he has an editor, but he has a right to contest them. Toriyama didn’t contest his editor cause he didn’t want to. Editor is there to help you, and you build trust. They don’t write your story, they only suggest shit to you. It’s still 100% yours. Same can’t be said for the west.

[Anonymous No.3865156]

>>3865150
The thing is they will do away with their previously legendary-performing artists should they be deemed to fall behind on the dreaded reader's poll.

Bobobo used be the hottest thing on Jump but the artist got fucked in Jump's record speed (8 issues) as soon as he fails to hold on to his popularity without any regard to his previous contributions. I agree with the fact that japs take it more seriously when their artists are getting fucked but their industry is just as, if not more cruel in the big leagues (i.e. Jump)

[Anonymous No.3865157]

>>3865156
>as soon as his new work fails to

FTFmyself

[Anonymous No.3865159]

>>3865128
I spammed eurocomics to see if the thread was stupidity or bait. It was bait. So is this one. At least I posted good stuff.

>>3865116
>>3865059
>>3865100
Western is a different word from american/capeshit. Use american/capeshit and maybe (you) won't get shit on for being an illiterate dickhead. Unless you're a secret dadaist and you really really meant clam comics. Step up your game.

[Anonymous No.3865162]

>>3865156
A lot of them just retire, and become editors. It’s not “Jump fucking them over” they already made millions, some just want out.

[Anonymous No.3865174]

>>3865155
I specifically mentioned successful ones for a reason. And no I am quite aware of the amount of untranslated shit out there, no one is arguing Mr Nakamoto who just submitted his first one shot or small serialization after college is gonna get a dedicated team, you get that with popularity.

I specifically said successful ones that are long running, the publisher has a vested interest in letting the mangakas keep up a decent quality of work by giving him time to formulate a plot and presentable art.

2nd, not all comics get such a big team, I more often see teams of 3.
> humanely impossible,
Given beasts like Murata, it is possible. But unlikely. Not sure what you were trying to say here.
> it's 100% yours
I don't contest that from a cultural viewpoint because as I said, Japan respects its authors. But they will make the changes when necessary. Do you really think Naruto should've been as long as it was? Do you not see it was influenced by the same idea of "Keep this cow milking"?
In the paper, the facts stay the same, Shueisha and Toei did NOT need permission for GT, they do not need your permission for anything. They respect you, but on the clean paper you don't own anything. Ultimately you are arguing the same point as me but I am iterating on the fact thats its not REALLY yours and if you decide to do something really asinine with your Manga your editors can and WILL reject it.

[Anonymous No.3865176]

>>3865156
I don't know the deal with Bobobo but if your series drops to a halt in popularity it's reason to cancel you. It honestly lands to the other point about Japanese publishers DOES indeed cancel out authors when they feel like it, but it needs to come with a good reason. Losing the popularity race is a fairly reasonable one although 8 issues does sound abit fast.

It's just not culturally typical for long running good artists to get thrown out, singular examples are more the exception than the rules. It's a cruel industry because getting to that point requires inhuman sacrifice.

[Anonymous No.3865179]

To make comics popular again, and end the cesspit that is capeshit, we need to find a way to show the people that these comics exist and they are worth reading.

Ask anyone about comics and they will say something along the lines of
>I dunno, superman and batman, they were a thing about 40 years ago, I didn't know they were still making them

Just posting on niche webcomic sites is never going to lead to anything

[Anonymous No.3865180]

>>3865116
typical amerimutt detected, thinking america is the epicenter of the universe. calm your autistic ass.
western comics include european comics you cunt.
you also completely ignored the rest of my post. besides, bande dessinée is just french for comic, they include american superhero comics as well.

[Anonymous No.3865183]

>>3865174
Successful by what standards. Getting big in the west isn’t success, it’s beyond success. Plenty of manga get popular over here and never make it westward. Japan generally doesn’t care about the west. Just cause you’ve never heard of it doesn’t mean it’s not successful. Shouben Jump isn’t the only criterion for success. Again, most manga, that are successful, don’t follow your percieved workflow.

[Anonymous No.3865201]

>>3865100
comics=usa
whats 2000 AD then?

[Anonymous No.3865204]

These threads would probably be taken more seriously if they didn't always start with the same biased and ignorant assumptions that poison the well for actual discussion.
>Japan is a bastion of creativity where success isn't milked to death and mangas "end"
>Western comics=superhero comics because nobody actually cares about anything not published by Marvel/DC

Personally, I don't think the comics are the problem nowadays. Audiences just expect MORE than publishers, writers, and artists can afford to actually give them, and that's not helped by movie/TV adaptations making the medium seem irrelevant to most.

[Anonymous No.3865230]

Just so we're clear, OP is clearly talking about American capeshit. He's not saying it's the only kind of western comic, that's just what he's focusing on. American capeshit is in the most trouble. So for reference, when I say "comics", I'm referring to capeshit.

Nepotism and lack of creative freedom are really killing comics. Smaller publishers do a bit better at it though. It's the same thing that's causing Hollywood to suck; it's the same directors, writers, etc. getting jerked in circles, and people getting hired not based on merit. Everything feels samey. You have to kiss so much ass and know the right people just to get a job in the first place - and even then, you're just slaving over the same tired, old ass IP that's been around for decades. Capeshit comics aren't IP farms like japanese manga, they're mostly just placeholders. Fucking One Punch Man started as an amateur webcomic and look at it now: its a fucking global phenomen with redrawn manga and 2 anime seasons (s2 looks bad, I know lol). The point is, capeshit can't make/grow new IPs like that and don't allow it for the most part. They want a team of people working on the same old fucking character that's just gonna get rebooted in a few issues.

Capeshit comics are vulnerable right now. If someone steps up to create a
new publisher that mimics japanese publishers, capeshit would be even more irrelevant. And I don't mean copy the japanese in art style, but in publishing and production style.

[Anonymous No.3865246]

>>3865230
>Capeshit comics are vulnerable right now

how fucking ironic when capeshit movies are making a killing at box offices and minority/"vulnerable" groups are actually huddling behind these money grubbing projects as if they are actually championing a real cause.

Everyone is a nerd nowadays but actual capeshit comic sales is down in the fucking shitter. I never liked American superheroes comic that much in the first place but this fate is just too cruel.

[Anonymous No.3865274]

Manga is fucking garbage. There are thousands of chapters published monthly and more in doujin cricles. 99.99% is absolute trash. You see the best of them and they are still 99% traced 3d models in manga studio with all the backgrounds either foliage brushes, convert to line art or overused fucking speed lines going in every direction. The action consists of showing before and after shots and lots of speedlines without ever actually drawing anything. Rest of it is paint by numbers design - go pick any recent manga and check. Youll have establishing shot of clip paint studio or basic toner pack for a school or town or city. Then youll have interior shot of classroom or tavern or office. Youll have a large character inset taking up vertical half page and some talking heads with no backgrounds.

Goblin Slayer is fairly popular with like 5 books now for year one, haruhi, main series, etc. Actually look at the art and backgrounds. They are all 3d models from clip studio. The proportions are perfect and identical for every character because they are not drawn - they are traced. The backgrounds are generic and often not there. All props from clip paint. The perspectuve is always off between characters and background - this is because they are just dropped into scenes, rotated or adjusted slightly and done. The bikini armor chapter is perfect example - the armor model is what they are tracing. The fucking mannequin gets eyes and mouth when they want a finished model - all from tim Buckley like pre-made mr potatohead man parts dragged and dropped onto models. Go through 5 or 6 chapters and save some images. Then go over them for shouting or angry or happy faces and compare the mouth, eyes, noses, etc. They are the same in different chapters. Greg land does more drawing than these trash works, yet you are first in line to praise groious nippon. Modern capeshit sucks because george soros invested heavily in them about 4 years ago.

[Anonymous No.3865287]

>>3865131
The big difference is that assistants don't have a fixed job. They just help where help is needed.

[Anonymous No.3865306]

>>3865246
No one actually reads comics, save for boomers. Almost everyone who's a "comic book fan" actually only watches the movies, shows, animation, plays the games and watches/reads shit online about the capeshit characters and regurgitates the facts. They quite literally consume everything BUT the comic source material. And this is a fact, as the sales and even piracy don't match up to the movie popularity at all. The movies in particular bypass a ton of the issues that make the comics unpopular like
>confusing timelines and continuity
>bad/inconsistent art
>multiple writers
>shitty diamond distribution practices
>action can be conveyed properly and isn't stiff, blocky drawings
These all make the movies extremely accessible to normalfags because all they have to do go to the theater every few months or so and watch the pretty colors.

>minority/"vulnerable" groups are actually huddling behind these money grubbing projects as if they are actually championing a real cause.
That is by design. At the risk of going full /pol/, that is because of the Jewish origin of american capeshit comics - and Jews themselves openly admit this. Capeshit has always been liberal propaganda, empowering freaks, minorities, Jews, gays, etc. Even superman, created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster (Jews) is a power fantasy character for them and demonstrates the Jewish god complex. Stan Lee (aka Stanley Lieber -Jewish) and Jack Kirby (Jacob Kurtzburg -Jewish) helped make a variety of other characters as well. There's a reason why capeshit characters have a boner for hating nazis. Hell, even the fucking JOKER, psychopath and mass-murderer, took the moral high ground against nazis in one issue.

[Anonymous No.3865349]

>>3865147
>only 1 man is known to be completely free from their system.
Speaking of Yoshihiro Togashi, was YuYu-Hakusho really successful enough to give him full immunity against Jump editors?

[Anonymous No.3865482]

Euro comics>Manga>American comics>shit>Capeshit

[Anonymous No.3865525]

>>3865349
YuYu Hakusho saved Jump's sales. Period. Problem is, Togashi has health issues that were aggravated by the deadlines and pressure to continue the series well beyond what he was comfortable with, similar to the editorial pressure Toriyama suffered after the end of the Freeza saga. YYH starts to suffer in quality after the Dark Tournament, especially art-wise. After the manga was finally over, Togashi didn't want anything to do with Jump anymore, but the people at Shueisha knew that a man that can move over 1 million sales per volume isn't found just anywhere and got afraid of losing him to any competitors. As a result, they gave him the best contract in the entire genre: he can draw whenever he wants/can and they have to publish it as is. No editor has control over content or pacing either. The end result is probably the finest modern shounen we'll get in our lifetime, Hunter x Hunter.

[Anonymous No.3865529]

>>3865525
How can one man be so based? Is it because his writing is so text heavy you're basically reading a novel?

[Anonymous No.3865544]

>>3865529
He just puts in a lot of effort into what he does. I've been following HxH for most of my life and it really showed during the many hiatuses that he was really thinking through the actions and consequences of his characters and how to best use his setting. From York Shin on, every arc is essentially a bunch of exercises in game theory. But yeah, you don't get writing like his very often, and it really shows how much inspiration he gets from Dragon Quest when you see how rich the universe is and how many different stories he can tell at once without coming across as forced.

[Anonymous No.3865554]

>>3865544
I don't envy hxh fans with all those hiatus's, do you think he doesn't even like working on hxh period?

[Anonymous No.3865556]

>>3865059
Remind them that you can actually have fun with your comics. Most American comics nowadays are produced by people who couldn't care less, but they do it because it's their job. It's not a vision of a single talented person anymore, it's a production by a whole studio of people who are controlled by their investors. And it's also an industry controlled by leftist pseudo-moralists who care more about looking good in the eyes of the public than making comics. There's almost no life left in modern American comics. In this climate, we will never see another Stan Lee.
Meanwhile, the manga industry is driven exclusively by the creators. Sure, there are horror stories about WSJ fucking people like Kubo in the ass, but that's nothing compared to what we see in Western comics, where the creators are mere cogs in a machine that doesn't even know its purpose anymore.

[Anonymous No.3865557]

>>3865554
If he didn't, he'd do something else because he's married to the Sailor Moon author and to say they're financially secure is a pretty big understatement because they're filthy fucking rich. He can stop at any time. I think he loves it too much to half-ass it, because it's his sandbox. He watches movies, thinks "huh, that's cool" and puts the bits he likes on it, at his own pace.

[Anonymous No.3865569]

Here's a few reasons why I don't read western comics.

I don't give a shit about superheroes.

I honestly prefer black and white, like in Manga. If Manga were all coloured pages I wouldn't read it. I really like seeing the inked pages. I got to see some of Jim Lee's sketched/inked pages and they look amazing. But the colour ruins it imo. I'm honestly not sure how unpopular of an opinion that is.

I don't even know where to begin. If I pick up a Manga I can start at chapter 1 and work to whatever chapter is the most recent. With Spiderman or Batman wtf do I do? What do I read first? There's so many alternative universes/storylines/etc. People post recommendations all the time on what to read first and which ones are better but should that really be the case if somebody wants to get into something for the first time?

Not true for all but the art can be really poor in most popular ones, or from what I've seen anyway. And there's no excuse for it.

SJW bullshit pisses me off and all the cherrypicked captions from female superheroes "stop mansplaining" doesn't help. Even minus the SJW bullshit, I wouldn't be interested. I'm sure it's not as prevalent as I've seen, or at least I hope not anyway.

Panel layouts are not as interesting.

Can be too wordy at times. People forget comics is a visual medium, the visuals should do most of the story telling. Also inb4 someone posts HxH, I'm not defending that either.

And, as other people have rightly pointed out, these artists are just cogs in the machine. They're working with intellectual properties that are not their own. I have no idea how they get satisfaction from milking the same properties to death for the past 70 years. The creative buck tends to stop at Mangaka, with input from the editor/collaborators/etc.

[Anonymous No.3865579]

I like archie and disney comics

[Anonymous No.3865630]

>>3865569
>I honestly prefer black and white, like in Manga. If Manga were all coloured pages I wouldn't read it. I really like seeing the inked pages. I got to see some of Jim Lee's sketched/inked pages and they look amazing. But the colour ruins it imo. I'm honestly not sure how unpopular of an opinion that is.
You're not alone. I can't fucking stand the coloring used in capeshit comics. I MUCH prefer the inks and even pencils to the finished (aka ruined) product. Everything is bright gradient-filled shit or poop-colored gradient shit. The new tumblr marvel comics are kinda doing their own thing, going for a flat digital Photoshop look, if I'm remembering correctly. Black and white is so much better on the eyes and facilitates longer reading. I'm not even a fan of capeshit but I have a select few artists who's art I find decent and enjoy looking at the pencils and inks

Everything else you said pretty much sums up my issues as well.

[Anonymous No.3865664]

>>3865630
It's also much easier to produce. B&W comics are something that can be realistically done by one person, while colored pages have to be produced by a whole group of people (unless you want your weekly comics to go on a Berserk-like schedule). The production ends up being messier and more soulless (because the original touch disappears under all that post-processing done bu other people).

[Anonymous No.3865737]

>>3865569
Read 2000AD

[Anonymous No.3865761]

>>3865062
Like what?

>>3865059
Haven't comics got more popular with the help of the MCU?

[Anonymous No.3865764]

>>3865101
What about using Internet and self publish? I know I'm very naive but if the industry is broken...I mean fuck take any popular author, give him a Kickstarter, let him do his shit 100%; both him and fans will be happy and he'll get money. What am I overlooking?

>>3865107
>NO one else in europe calls their comics BDs, except the belgians.
I'm french and I do. So do lots of people I know IRL.

[Anonymous No.3865818]

>>3865764
>What am I overlooking?
the indie market is a very unstable source of income.

most popular western authors get their work from doing "original" stories on existing IPs and nobody but the most hardcore fans will recognize the authors/artists by name alone, fewer still will find the idea of supporting them on fundraiser websites agreeable.

[Anonymous No.3865828]

>>3865059
Upgrade the art and make the stories original. The two big companies are dying slowly because the only ideas they have are making old characters more "diverse".
The best comic I've read in the last two years was "God Country". It's six issues long with excellent art, and a good self contained story. That's what we need. Good, self contained stories.
Also, Japan has the advantage of being insanely competitive. They have so a crazy number of people trying to break into the industry, and they don't have the whole market cornered by an oligopoly.

[Anonymous No.3865841]

Everyone is saying the same thing but it will never happen which is pretty sad

[Anonymous No.3865889]

>>3865818
I'm not sure about the last part. I mean, look at how many "lesser" artists Kickstarter are funded. And I assume the comic niche has author/artists names beloved by fans despite it being carried mostly by franchises.
But I don't know shit about it. I've read maybe what, 50 great/top recommanded comics.

It's not really comparable to manga. But if someone I knew would try fundraising and came up with some decent project, I'd probably bite.

[Anonymous No.3865910]

>>3865569
Western comics aren't just marvel and DC my man. Just look at image or something, that's pretty mainstream and it features entirely creator owned comics.

[Anonymous No.3865935]

>>3865761
>Haven't comics got more popular with the help of the MCU?
No, which makes the state of capeshit comics even more pathetic.

[Anonymous No.3865992]

Theres good stuff in eurohomoland but theyre complete shit at marketing.

[Anonymous No.3866089]

>>3865143
If you compare lifelong worldwide sales, One Piece almost caught up with Batman.
And I'm talking all things batman, starting in 1939.

[Anonymous No.3866094]

>>3866089
Yep. Considering OP isn’t even 20 years old, that’s insane. Provided OP went on as long as all the comics above it, it’d probably take the no.1 spot.

I believe it’s the 5th best comic of all time, isn’t it?

[Anonymous No.3866104]

>>3866094
3rd best, and only 20 million behind Batman. By the time it’s finalized, it’ll probably have overtaken them both it and Superman for the no.1 spot. One Piece is currently at 440 million, Superman is at 600 million. One Piece still has at least 5 years left in it.

Also, that’s ALL of Batman, and ALL of Superman, ever, since like the 1930s. One Piece is blowing both out of the water.

[Anonymous No.3866117]

>>3866104
And that's One Piece hard cover (so only the 180-pages volumes), while for Bat/Supes we're including the soft covers.

That's insane.

[Anonymous No.3866129]

>>3865569
Honestly, i prefer colors or limited color palettes more than flat out black and white.

But also, I just flat out hate all this gradient shading building in see in us comics.

[Anonymous No.3866132]

>>3865059
It's shit like this that makes me wanna make my own comic but Th r only thing stopping me is a vast majority of you are gonna hate it cuz it's capeshit. Albeit, it has more common with tokusatsu and shonen but it's still capeshit. And the fact I like coloring things means most of my pages won't be black and white. I just hate the look apart from some manga.


Maybe i should kill myself.

[Anonymous No.3866136]

>>3865274

>soros fag


Fucking hell, I don't particularly like Jews but what are they NOT responsible for?

At this point somebody could blame Soros for their hemorrhoids.

[Anonymous No.3866144]

>>3865059
The thing with western and capeshit comics is nowadays that every writer trying to make their own character so they can get cash when they make a movie or is on a tv show and that's it. and nobody can stop it with all the hype round the movies more and more hacks/frauds are going to try to get that quick capeshit money. also the artist on those books get really fucked like most can't even ink their own stuff because deadlines

[Anonymous No.3866148]

>>3866132

Bre, no. Please just make something original that has a definitive end. Seriously, like even if you kill and bring back characters make it like a max of 3 times per universe.. And dont make alternative universes unless it's a core idea of the story.

Just please, any cape, just not one we saw before.


Fucking. Please. Think. Of. The. End. And. Then. Actually. End. Your. Story.

[Anonymous No.3866268]

>>3866132
>capeshit
Whyyyyyyyyyyy?!?

Out of all the possible stories you could tell, you go for literally the most overdone one.

[Anonymous No.3866276]

>>3865761
>Like what?
Eurocomics have tons of titles of all genres. Start with classics like Incal, Nikopol, etc. there's tons of stuff drawn in any possible style. Bunch of things off the top of my head
>Moebius
>Sergio Toppi's Sharaz-De
>Bilal
>Wake / Sillage
>anything by Franquin, like Spirou or Gaston Lagaffe
>the very first comic I picked up, Légendes des contrées oubliées by Chevalier / Segur
>Saria drawn by Riccardo Federici
>comedy like Melusine
>Tangomango by Adrián (I absolutely adore this artist he's got such a fresh style)
>stuff by Tony Sandoval, weird style
>Blacksad
Really it's absolutely huge compared to US comics where it's just capeshit + a handful of things like Hellboy, Bone or Usagi Yojimbo.

[Anonymous No.3866389]

>>3866276
This is why I’m saying people should just distinguish Eurocomics by calling them Bande Dessinée instead. It’s different enough to merit the separation. Even the style of panelling and storytelling is different.

Ameriicomics are literally 90% capeshit, and the cancer killing itself.

[Anonymous No.3866416]

>>3865059
>comics have been getting less and less popular for the past 30 years

I mean, the industry literally crashed 30 years ago, so that's probably part of it.

[Anonymous No.3866742]

>>3866268
cuz i like superheroes. albeit the more down the earth street level varitants.

[Anonymous No.3866756]

a lot of comic covers have really nice art

[Anonymous No.3866805]

>>3866756
The covers are the rare time where the stiff, statuesque comic look has an advantage. The interiors however should have a more fluid and expressive style.

[Anonymous No.3866818]

>>3866805
>>3866756
Capeshit covers are higher quality because they hire different artists for them. It's a pretty shitty practice desu, with manga you see the cover and you are guaranteed that the interior artist will be the same, minus the colors ofc (no idea if there are exceptions to this but that's what I've seen every time).

[Anonymous No.3866873]

>>3865059
>How can we, in the west, change our own comics industry for the better?
This video explains the problem
https://youtu.be/yW8MO4jAUH0

Its more the writing than the art. The writing now is terribly written.
Social Justice is the only major thing fucking up western comic art. Get rid of the social and the characters would look appealing again.

[Anonymous No.3866937]

>>3866873
The social justice spin is awful but the writing would still be godawful without.
I see this kind of page all the time on /co/, this is... I have no words for this. It's like a brain damaged person tried to make a joke for other brain damaged people. And it works! Capefags think this is funny. The biggest problem with capeshit is people who read capeshit. They're so fucking dumb that even wrestling fans look smart in comparison. I have never in my life seen people scraping the bottom this hard in terms of taste and general intellect.
I can forgive the comics from the 60s because they were aimed at kids, I still have my issues of Amazing Spider-Man that I read when I was a kid. They're insanely dumb but they're clearly aimed at kids. This shit you see today is aimed at people with brain damage. There is no other explanation.

[Anonymous No.3866969]

I really want to see a resurgence of serialized comics in the west, but I just don't see it happening
>eurocomics
rarely get updated and most creators certainly can't live off of them, even guys like Joel Jurion have failed Kickstarters from lack of interest

I went to Tokyo recently, and just walking through the bookstores was a shock. In a 7-floor shop the manga was right at the storefront, baskets and shelves of them with tons of promo material and lots teens looking around.
They had a whole floor dedicated to manga, with a massive variety of series I've never even heard of and tons of new publications.

Why can't we have something like that? A variety of genres, books that appeal to girls, books that old guys like. Fucking hell, they've got something really good

>>3866818
idk who you've been looking at but as far as I know most manga artists colour their own stuff.
Hiring an artists who can do good colors is expensive, and the guy hiring probably doesn't have much money himself.
>but assistants
don't even need to be actual artists, most of the time someone with photoshop knowledge (to scan, clean, center, typeset, sometimes even apply tones) is plenty
>>3866937
would've been funnier with 3 panels and without the text in panel 1, but it's silly enough to get a giggle

[Anonymous No.3866972]

>>3866969
I said minus the colors in the sense that you get the art you see on the cover but in black and white.

[Anonymous No.3866980]

>>3866969
>Why can't we have something like that?
I studied Japanese literature and I have NO idea how manga became this huge in Japan. I can see the parallels and historical precedents, but manga getting as huge as it is today is puzzling. Granted I only studied things until WW2, there's probably an explanation down the line.

[Anonymous No.3866984]

>>3866980
I have a simple explanation - even the Japanese don't want to bother with kanji, so most people prefer manga to actual books whenever they just want to chill out in a train or something.

[Anonymous No.3867005]

>>3866984
The same thing could have been achieved with furigana (pronunciation aids above kanji) and light novels. It has to be something deeper than that. There's surely the factor of Japan being insanely stubborn culturally. Maybe they latched onto comics just because, like they keep other weird traditions alive.
Either way it's fascinating. I don't read much manga but as a cultural phenomenon they're amazing.
South Italy is pretty depressing, nobody cares about any entertainment that isn't soccer. It's all talk about jobs, money and one's kids. I have no idea what normies talk about on Facebook. Politics?

[Anonymous No.3867014]

>>3867005
>the same thing could have been achieved with furigana
Printing furigana everywhere would be a huge pain in the ass for the publisher, I suppose.
Also it could've been the snowball effect. Manga took off in the post-war Japan thanks to people like Osamu Tezuka, people just latched onto it and never let go. Japan is a small country after all, such a thing could've easily happened on that scale.

[Anonymous No.3867020]

>>3867014
>When your country owes its gigantic entertainment industry to a TF furry degenerate
Only in Japan

[Anonymous No.3867044]

>>3866984
Japan did study the idea of getti.g rid of kanjis, in order to make it's language easier for foreigners to learn.
Turns out that, even if there's no loss in meaning, texts without kanjis are much harder to read. Funny how it works.

[Anonymous No.3867128]

>>3866980
The answer is simple. Japan had Tezuka. A genius who changed the game completely. Formerly, Japanese manga was just like those in western countries. Comic strip in news paper, occasional Disney movie for kids etc. Tezuka single handedly changed the scene once and for all.

[Anonymous No.3867158]

>>3866276
I'll check the titles but most I know, and they're pretty old. SUre every industry has its old classics everyone loves, but are eurocomics still alive nowadays?

[Anonymous No.3867182]

They say Japanese anime & manga have been fairly popular in Euro. I think younger artists who follow the manga style will appear soon. Euro artist like Moebius had big impact on Japanese manga artist like Otomo. This kind of reciprocal effect should develop the culture.

[Anonymous No.3867206]

>>3866969
>without the text in panel 1
thats the last panel, non japanese comics are read from left to right. Also thats my biggest gripe with american comics, too much text

[Anonymous No.3867207]

I'm doing a graphic novel currently and to say it's inspired by Manga would be an understatement. Japanese properties are probably 80 % of my inspiration, mainly 90's anime in general, the works of Gainax (and now Trigger), Devilman, Tezuka Manga's etc
I talked with a friend sometime ago that we are living in times where there is massive cultural overlap and a big chunk of "western" artists grow up with manga and anime. My best guess is soon we won't even differentiate comics and manga.

A big part of the mass appeal of Manga and how it become this big in Japan and outgrew comics in the west I believe and I think was not mentioned here thus far is expressiveness and appeal.
You often have well designed characters with simplified features for the sake of expressing emotion as intensively as possible.
Compare that to sth like that
>>3866873 where it's kind of a bland looking realism with two times the same facial expression. Nothing about this character screams cute or interesting or anything else. Despite the transgressions of him recently, John K, of Ren and Stimpy fame made many good posts about this topic.
Pic related by Hiroyuki Imaishi may illustrate my point somewhat. Of course, most Japanese artists make bland samefacey kawaii ugguu characters but the real winners, let's take even something recent like One Punch Man have just this instant recognisability and expressions.
I also agree with the black and white aspect making it more interesting and it made me reconsider to leave my graphic novel black and white too (would also safe countless hours).

[Anonymous No.3867270]

>>3865174
Murata can but he still has assistants and uses them for backgrounds.

[Anonymous No.3867284]

I mean Murica still has/had DC Vertigo and IMAGE has had good no capekino titles as well (SAGA)

Eurohomos have got some good stuff aswell but theyre elaborately horrendous at marketing

pic related its a french comic of Elric of melnibone something i recently enjoyed

[Anonymous No.3867285]

Manga has WAY higher highs in general, than capeshit/american comics. Capeshit feels "ok" at its best, fucking awful at it's worst. I'm not even talking about critiquing the writing quality, I mean generally being able to invoke emotion. I don't recall a comic ever invoking a strong emotion from me

Also, this kinda ties into my first point but there's no fucking hype for american comic books. No one gives a shit what happens or even if there will be another issue. Although that's probably a symptom of American comic books dying and not a cause.

[Anonymous No.3867305]

>>3866873
get rid of that disgusting airbrushed look for a start, how does anyone think that looks good?

[Anonymous No.3867453]

>>3867128
if it is true that he changed japanese manga industry, why not that of other countries even 30+ years after his death?

[Anonymous No.3867464]

>>3867453
Tezuka was godly enough to change his country, and he did influence the world, but he couldn't change the world by himself.

[Anonymous No.3867469]

>>3867453
When Tezuka revolutionized manga, it's a rather new media. Nobody before him thought comic could be a serious entertainment or art. Now comic is rather an old media. Young and talented people pursue new media like video game and CGI movie.

[Anonymous No.3867483]

>>3865059
>western comics

for starters drop the whole trashy realism look. its the ugliest fucking thing I've ever seen in my life and I'm a guy who loves comics. Seriously the fucking realism meme is trash. it's generic bland and almost always ugly. you'd think long time illustrators would figure out what appealing means but whoever is in charge of comics sure fucking hasn't.

I'd read these fucking things if they were bearable to look at.

Secondly would it kill comics to be more funny? dread and gloom became old in early 2000s. it's called a fucking comic because its mean't to be fun and entertaining. the only one with an excuse to be gloomy is Batman because his entire shtick is being gloomy in a gothic halloween shit show. Even the joker knows how to lighten the mood though.

[Anonymous No.3867494]

>>3867483
>trashy realism look
please use the official term, which is
>traced stock photos

[Anonymous No.3867500]

>>3867483
But this looks more real and mature. Anime people look cute but childish.

[Anonymous No.3867521]

>>3865059
That anime twink has a cute butt, who is he?

[Anonymous No.3867536]

>>3867500
The problem with capeshit isn't realism, it's that they use Loomis heads from the 50s for their characters. They're "ideal" proportions but at this point they look trite, fake, and unappealing. You can't relate to a character that looks like the most bland coca cola advertisement imaginable.
Manga does realism too but they bother to actually make appealing characters. Also it helps that they know how the fuck to draw instead of tracing photos

[Anonymous No.3867537]

>>3867536
By contrast here's how a top capeshit artist works
Final image looks like shit.

[Anonymous No.3867543]

>>3867521
pretty sure that ass belongs to Speed of Sound Sonic from OPM

[Anonymous No.3867548]

>>3867536
you found one manga artist who draws realistic, while 99% of manga artists draw generic characters and trace photos for backgrounds. what's your fucking point?

[Anonymous No.3867557]

>>3867548
There isn't just Inoue who draws realistically, and I agree that most manga artists draw generic manga. Let's just put it this way though: manga is just cartooning. So don't see it as manga, see it as cartooning. And cartooning is more appealing than 50s Loomis heads an traced photos.
I don't like that backgrounds are traced in manga either but guess what, backgrounds in capeshit are also traced (badly), or they're complete trainwrecks (pic related) so I think manga still wins this one out with their xeroxed photos because at least they know what they're doing.

I'm not a weeb and I don't even like the animu style, but capeshit is fucking atrocious from every single standpoint, writing, art, backgrounds, movement, characters, everything is a fucking mess.
The characters have been the same for some 80 years now, they can't possibly die, the status quo can't change, everything dramatic is an "alternate universe" so what's the fucking point to read anything if there's no continuity? The characters don't evolve, they can't evolve. They have no personality whatsoever left. There is no story. The art is shit. There's obnoxious virtue signaling everywhere. Not a single redeeming factor, they might as well print issues with no cover, no interiors, just blank pages and write "BATMAN" on the cover in comic sans and capefags would collect that shit anyway.

[Anonymous No.3867561]

>>3867557
just pointed out your obvious cherry picking. other than that, i have to agree.

[Anonymous No.3867567]

>>3867561
I just picked, at random, Superior Spiderman #4 from a website
This is the only page of action in the whole comic
The rest is people standing there and talking about stupid shit that is so boring I can't even finish reading the balloons, and half the pages are about spiderman in a literal hospital bed

[Anonymous No.3867569]

>>3867567
Try to read the dialogue in this.

[Anonymous No.3867573]

>>3867044
That's because they don't use any spaces or common punctuations, and too many words have multiple meanings. It would require an adaption of writing style and adjusted vocabulary. But it's definitely doable, if Hangul is any example.

[Anonymous No.3867576]

>>3867453
Comic books went through their own transformative ages in early marvel DC times, but Americans are retarded people and Christian crazies were still relevant back then and caused shit like the Comic Code authority which effectively crippled and ruined comic books for its most critical years. Eventually the code has been thrown out but the damage has been done and comic books were seen as mentally stunted creative works for mentally stunted degenerates. A belief that turned into a self fulfilling prophecy, as we can see.

Euro comics are healthier in stories but ultimately are not a big industry. It seems the west in general has a pozzed mindset about seeing most drawn things as "for children", lacking the ability to discern the potential in them. It's a shame but the industry that Japan grew is very unique and circumstantial and I don't think even the Japanese know how to explain it well, but they adopted it readily and to me that speaks to the value of a society that judges things on a rational basis and not by "cringe/shame" levels.

[Anonymous No.3867584]

>>3867576
Western people in general have horrible art education and simply don't associate lineart with skill. If you show a normie some animation test done by Milt Kahl and your average "realistic" celebrity photocopy, they'll say the celeb photocopy is way more skilled. It's just realism=skill. Strange considering all the modern art shit being shoved down people's throats in school.

[Anonymous No.3867591]

>>3867576
When CCA went away, things didn't get any better. People like Miller came to the scene and everything went the exact opposite route - comics turned into an edgy shitfest for teenagers where characters were dying and getting rebooted left and right for no reason. That only solidified comics as an infantile medium that shouldn't be taken seriously.

[Anonymous No.3867600]

>>3867537
I see no problem. They are on model and accurate.
>>3867536 isn't bad. But the movement looks exaggerated and unrealistic. Also black and white is boring.

[Anonymous No.3867602]

>>3867600
found the capefag

[Anonymous No.3867622]

>>3867600
Imagine having taste this bad. How can you call yourself an artist?

[Anonymous No.3867625]

>>3865074
thread/

[Anonymous No.3867638]

>>3867600
lol even the sketch used as reference in the bottom left of >>3867537 is way better and more lively than the finished product

[Anonymous No.3867784]

>>3865059
Marvel and DC are old and busted. Let them crash/wither like they're already doing. Capeshit is just for movies and toys at this point.

A new publisher needs to step up, with new and interesting comics. They need an appealing art style, not the stiff boomer traced style or numarvel faggot tumblr style.

Have clear VARIETY in the genres and demographics advertised to. The japanese are masters of catering to their intended audience. Capeshit tries to do it all at once and fails. If you're trying to get boys and young men to buy your comics, pack them with action, brotherhood, weapons, mystery, hot girls, etc. If you're trying to get girls to buy, pack them with romance, cute shit, emotional stuff, pretty art, etc. There can be some overlap of course, but get your base down first.

ADVERTISE and hype up your comics. You can do this basically free on YouTube. Release the comics online and in physical.

[Anonymous No.3867796]

>>3867557
why is the bathtub blocking the door?

[Anonymous No.3867799]

because the girls in normal comics dont have huge ass fucking titties.

[Anonymous No.3867800]

>>3867796
I don't know anon.
>Why is the toilet brush in font of the door instead of behind the toilet?
>Is that a rug instead of tiling? Is that's tiling why this weird design?
>Why does the rug/tiling go UNDER the toilet / bathtub?
>Why does the sink look like it belongs to a hospital?
>Why is the basin of the sink completely square?
>Why does the bathtub have sharp corners?
>Why does the interior of the bathtub have a 90 degree angle instead of being round?
>Why is there a barrel bolt lock in the bathroom?

[Anonymous No.3867804]

>>3865230
(you)

[Anonymous No.3867806]

>>3865569
Nobody likes capeshit colors. I don't even understand why they do it.
also, western ≠ us comics, much less capeshit

[Anonymous No.3867811]

>>3867158
They are, it's just the common bias that a thing is good and worth recomming only if enough people have expressed its greatness, over time. There's been a storytime of the ogre gods in /co/ if you're interested. Blutch is an acclaimed master and his dark side of the moon is on readcomiconline, etc. you can check bdgest where you'll discover that when it's picked up by best sales, eurocomics can suck too

[Anonymous No.3867822]

>>3867537
explain for artlet why it's bad

[Anonymous No.3867834]

>>3866969
Joel Jurion isn't quite the kind of popular author that could pull off a kickstarter, to say the least.
most creators can't live off their art anywhere, and eurocomic does edit a lot of shit like manga that permits their authors to get some money. One problem is both that editors give a shot to a lot of people and then use this excuse to pay them little. Same in Japan.
In france, comics of all kind are usually in the back of the fnacs with people stopping in and reading, usually young but the teens more going to manga, but you do find comics in storefront of any book shop that sells it and streets with comic book shops in every big city, in places frequented by young adults, like right before the bars/next to the university.
Any more details on tokyo ? How is like in usa ? I think that a good angle if you're serious about that stuff.

[Anonymous No.3867836]

>>3867806
>I don't even understand why they do it.
See >>3867600
capefags have shit taste.

[Anonymous No.3867843]

>>3867834
Japan is loaded. Every convenience store and supermarket has a section with Tankobons you can buy for 500¥ and the weekly magazines that go for 270¥. On top of that, they have all kinds of shops, as well as Mangakissas, which are basically a manga library mixed with a karaoke bar where you even spend the night and sleep. Not to mention their indie scene is massive thanks to Comiket. There’s no comparison.

[Anonymous No.3867845]

>>3867800
maybe it's an hommage to the kubrick shining

[Anonymous No.3867864]

>>3867834
Comics look really dead here in Italy. You can find a few highly publicized (aka shilled on TV in the "art" section of the news) graphic novels in bookshops and that's it. Most sold comic book is "Tex" which has been running for a thousand years and thrives on fans that are about that old. And bookshops are dying really fast in the first place 'cause people don't read in general. LCS don't exist or they don't care about comics that much, they're mostly focused on Magic and stuff that actually makes money but they look like they're dying as well. At least in my (rather large) city, they've all closed and the closest one is a 2 hours trip away. You can find something in major cities but the local reality seems really bleak. Most of the good Italian artists work in France, or for French comics.

[Anonymous No.3867866]

>>3867843
How can you sing to karaoke and read manga at once?

[Anonymous No.3867868]

>>3867843
>those absolutely enormous stationery shops selling boxes of zebra nibs for a pittance

[Anonymous No.3867869]

>>3867866
Superior nippon high IQ

[Anonymous No.3867877]

>>3867843
Damn that's cheap.
Convenience stores/supermarkets do have a bd section, but it's usually double the price. I guess it's larger, in color most of the time, and with better paper at least. less pages though, that hurts. A thing that's often told about eurocomic culture is that every family has an asterix or titeuf in its WC. I guess it's not throwable manga in the trains level of popularity.
The mangakissas are nice. That, I don't think there's an equivalent, but maybe it's more due to karaoke/coworkers night out culture, and then manga demand since it's popular.

On indie, it's the other way around in europe. Angoulême got itself an elitist reputation for giving prizes to indie publishers/authors, and fanzines aren't really big. But there's a lot of small editors, and they got the reputation of publishing good stuff, if not too artsy for the pleb.

[Anonymous No.3867887]

>>3867864
Yeah, France/Belgium is really putting it together.
as >>3867128 mentioned, there's been both popular and excellent authors during some decades, and that pushed the whole thing.
I think it's Goscinny then Gotlib/Moebius that made it.
I may be thinking that because they all held magazines that were very popular and lasted (Pilote/Fluide glacial/Métal Hurlant).
An editing table is a good place for emulation.

[Anonymous No.3867896]

https://www.viz.com/originals

Here's your chance to get published by a company who knows the industry.

[Anonymous No.3867927]

>>3867887
Herge.
Then Goscinny/Uderzo/Frankin/Goetlieb.
Those names are known by almost everyone in France and Belgium

Morris is less known, but everyone knows about Lucky Luke.
There are plenty of others like that. Most people can't say who Peyo is, but everyone know the smurfs.
Also Pratt, Malet, more recently Zep, are widely known.
If I had to name 10 famous BD authors, I could do it easily, and most french would have no trouble getting 5 names.

I bet Mobius wouldn't even get listed by most of them, though. He's pretty niche.

[Anonymous No.3867930]

>>3865059
The biggest problem with american comics is that there's so little variety. Yes, there are American comics besides capeshit, but it really says something that most people only think of one particular genre when they think of comics at all.
Manga has its own shitty and bizarre hyper specific genre cliches, but if I asked you to describe what a cliche romance manga is like, you'd probably be able to describe it pretty well. If you tried to describe a cliche western romance comic, you'd be pretty befuddled because that genre barely exists within American comics in the first place. Manga has a huge variety of genres and subgenres to cater to all sorts of audiences. If I'm a teen boy who wants to read a risque action manga, I can find that. If I'm an adult woman and want to read a realistic drama comic, I can find that. If I'm a teen girl and want to read the comic equivalent to a shitty YA novel, I can find that.
Japan takes its comics seriously as a medium. Most comics in American are aimed at one particular demographic. Can you imagine if the book industry, or movie industry made most of their works appeal to one fanbase, and never tried to get new readers in? Japan knows that for the comic industry to be successful, you need to cater to all sorts of tastes, and until that happens American comics are going to continue to stagnate.

[Anonymous No.3867962]

There is so much wrong with American comics, where to begin. Well, since this is /ic/ I'll skip over the obvious cultural decline, SJW infestation, PC nonsense affecting good story telling part. US comics always had some inherent problems but they compounded as time went on.

>changing writing and art teams, often in the middle of on going story archs
There's a very engaging plot developing over multiple issues, and suddenly a crappy penciller replaces the good one and everything looks like dogshit. This happens too often and always infuriated me.
>Incompetent temp art hires
Sometimes they use colorists, inkers, and even pencillers who have no business doing the job. This was already an issue way back when tumblr or the internet wasn't even a thing yet.
>cover art not matching interior art
You can never buy a book just because you like the cover.
>way too many advertisement pages
Way too many.

[Anonymous No.3867964]

>>3865156
Don't forget to mention Kubo. Soon as he openly started to talk about how much Jump fucked with Bleach and how he didn't like it there, they told him he had 3 issues to finish Bleach and get out. Now Jump pretends Bleach wasn't ever one of their biggest titles and contributed to their "Big 3" era, and always tries to replace Bleach with DB in their image.

[Anonymous No.3867968]

That being said, art wise specifically, there have been some grave errors made during the transitioning to digital art. Comics used to have flat colors with cross hatching being used for shadows. That allows the eye to easily read the images and makes for powerful and distinct visuals. But all of that got lost with the advent of gradients and computer coloring. Stiff, shiny plastic dolls of gradient descent have replaced decent art. It's a tragedy and it gets worse. The availability of all the colors makes shitty artists want to use all the colors all the time, which leads to backgrounds that are too dominant and panels that don't flow because they are little paintings in their own rights, not part of a dynamic sequence as it should be, used to be and still is with manga.

Also, the general skill level of western artists has gone down because art schools have degraded due to cultural decline, worship of incompetence and ugliness, as epitomized by tumblr tier art styles has become dominant among teachers and pupils alike. If you want a classical figure drawing education you have to go self taught or really search for one of the few remaining craft-based schools remaining that hasn't been overtaken by the post modern mind virus yet.

[Anonymous No.3867976]

>>3867930
I just really hate how everything in the west has to be fanart. Even new things that aren't fanart are clearly stemming off something that is already popular in that moment or riding some sort of wave. Every single youtube channel, artist on twitter, everything I follow has carved a niche that is based off some sort existing fandom.
I'm sure that if you have an interesting original thing going on in Japan you get noticed. Maybe just a little but you get noticed. In the west? No fucking chance. A thing like OPM would never have happened in the west.

Isn't it really weird how there's so few people selling instructional material in Japan while the west is absolutely chock full even if the west produces 1/1000th of the material? If there were a lot of art gurus in Japan, some of them would have surely been translated, right? Even if it's "how to draw manga shit", something would have come up. They make a trillion manga every year, you would assume there's a shitton of manga gurus, right? Instead there's nothing or very little of it.
In the West half the successful artists are art gurus, the teach how to draw and this and that. For what? Where is the material produced by all these artists we're training? Even more ironic, many of these art gurus also sell their works / comics and that shit goes nowhere. There are so many artists I've seen that do commissions or teach and are very successful, then I discover their personal project and it's DEAD, shit like 9 patrons total.
Why the fuck does the west learn so much when there's absolutely nothing to produce? So many mangaka in Japan have OK art that would get shunned here on /ic/, but they work because there's a market of some sort and people maybe like the style. The more I look at the west the more I see utter desperation to find a market that doesn't exist.

Something was happening, for good or for worse, in the early 2000s when the internet was fresh but then it just fizzled out.

[Anonymous No.3867988]

>>3867976
>Why the fuck does the west learn so much when there's absolutely nothing to produce

It's a West vs East culture difference. Notice how half the mangaka listed in this thread alone eventually developed health problems from their publishing schedules. People in Japan work themselves to fucking death until they can't work anymore, that's their definition of productivity. Weekly mangaka sacrifice sleep and are working 18 hours of the day solely to make their deadlines.
Meanwhile here in the West we have the 8 hours a day, 40 hour work week, and movements pushing for that to be lower and lower while increasing wages. I don't really disagree with them, but you can see the difference from there. The only people in the West working the type of hours mangaka do are the ones burning with passion for the craft.

[Anonymous No.3867998]

>>3867988
I don't know, I think mangaka are starting to push for more normal hours these days. I follow the guy who draws Tsugumomo on YT and he says his average work day is 8 hours. No assistants, he draws everything in Clip Studio.
But then again I don't see why work hours would matter in this. That's more of a publishing problem due to the format of Jump! and other magazines. It really seems to me like there's no interest in anything, people just want to "learn to draw" in hopes that they get big, they go to the art gurus, they learn this and that, but it turns out that even the art gurus can't sell shit, so they try to pitch their skills as the product instead of an actual product.
In Japan if you have the skill to make a comic, you just make a comic.

[Anonymous No.3868000]

>>3867976

[Anonymous No.3868007]

>>3867988
>Notice how half the mangaka listed in this thread alone eventually developed health problems from their publishing schedules.
And that's a huge fucking problem in the industry. Eiichiro Oda is often seen as a God among manga artists because he's somehow able to be passionate about his work after all these years despite working so hard that WSJ have to force him to take vacations. There's also an infamous example of Tite Kubo - an incredibly talented man who was practically broken by Jump's deadlines (both mentally and physically) and ruined his entire series because it sucked the soul out of him. That's a big issue because like I said, Kubo was incredibly talented as a mangaka. To be successful in WSJ you don't need Kubo's talent, you need Oda's resilience. And that's fucked.

[Anonymous No.3868016]

>>3867976
Just to drive the point further, KSBD and Ava's Demon both started off Homestuck. Abbaddon posted a MSPA style version of KSBD on the MSPA forums, while Michelle of Ava's Demon (I've been told) drew a lot of Homestuck fanart and was popular with that.
Both comics launched in 2013. And guess what, Homestuck was having its first hiatus in 2013. So all the people who read Homestuck flocked to KSBD and Ava's Demon.

[Anonymous No.3868053]

>>3867998
You do understand that Tsugumomo is published monthly, online, and as such he's nowhere near the level of pressure a weekly mangaka under a magazine would be?
He finds time to stream videogames. Other mangaka barely find time to attend business events.

[Anonymous No.3868055]

>>3868053
I had absolutely no idea, I don't even read the manga, I just watch the artist stream.

[Anonymous No.3868090]

>>3867968
Underrated post about the coloring. I like the look of the older comics with the flat colors. It facilitates fast and easy reading. Comic book art is weird in the sense that nice illustrations don't necessarily translate to a good comic. Even the few comic book artists I kinda like, I admit that they're better at individually nice illustrations rather than a complete comic with flow and action (like a Japanese comic).Traditional coloring could be an option for colors but honestly, capeshit artists are notoriously bad with things like copics.

[Anonymous No.3868127]

>>3868090
Old capeshit colors are also more textural and work a bit like screentones because they were done with that dot-based process.

[Anonymous No.3868138]

>>3868127
this stuff was also rushed compared to modern capeshit but you can see that the artists clearly had some classical training in figure and could draw natural looking figures

[Anonymous No.3868147]

>>3868138
this looks way more natural than a lot of modern capeshit. Buscema. Also I'm not a fan of the Marvel house style in general but this looks more 'fun' than the things made today,

[Anonymous No.3868156]

>>3868147
Also I remember there was something magical about going every month to the newspaper stand (that's where I bought comics) with pocket change and asking if the new spider-man was out. (These were reprints of the original run, I'm not that old).

It's just not the same if you buy this shit from Amazon or read it online. There was something about the very act of buying comics. I'm sure that's kind of what the Japanese feel when they buy Jump!, it's a little ritual.

[Anonymous No.3868159]

>>3868007
The other problem is their contracts that prohibiy drawing for other companies but pay only if they take some of your work to publish. By pages basically. Murata almost died on one of this if I remember right.

[Anonymous No.3868167]

>>3868156
It's the same with the books. I can read anything off the net but reading a real book is much more pleasant. As a result I read mostly web serials online cause they are not printed obviously.

[Anonymous No.3868176]

>>3868167
I don't feel this problem with books. I read on a Kindle and it's just like reading on paper. In fact I love how convenient it is to just see an interesting book somewhere and 30 seconds afterwards you're reading it. I think it's because once you read a book, you're done with it. It's a self-contained thing. There's no thing such as "oh it's that time of the month where I buy the new book of the series I love". Or maybe I'm just not a kid anymore so I don't feel the same excitement for things. I wish something were made today that makes me feel like I felt when I started Final Fantasy VII.

[Anonymous No.3868198]

>>3868167
>reading a real book is much more pleasan
>As a result I read mostly web serials online cause they are not printed obviously.
wut

anyway, I like my artbooks bot in physical and digital form. in physical for browsing, in digital for studies.

And I like my reading books only in digital. Holding a book for hours its a pain in the elbow, when I start the book or I am close to finishing I have to hold it with hands because its unbalanced, I have to carry the book with me everywhere I go if I except to read it when I find the time, and sometimes I might not pop up the book from my backpack if I am not sure how much I have and I might need to leave at a moment notice. Its so much easier to pop my phone from my pocket, and start reading right away, I dont even need a bookmark, the phone remembers where I left, and I can have hundreds of books at the same time on my phone, compared to carrying 1 or 2 books on me.

Ah right, I also like that I can change the resolution on phone. After a few hours of reading my eyes might get tired, increasing the size of words fixes that. Cant do that on a book. Cant read in the dark either, and most light bulbs dont have different levels of luminosity. I can also read white on black, or whatever fond I want. And I cant carry I light with me when I am on the go, and if I do I have 2 things to hold.

Ah, another thing, I also need 2 hands to turn pages on physical books. Theres also the fact that I dont want to waste shell space with regular books. If I want to share my books with somebody I only have to send them an .epub, theres no, "Ah, but I am reading it right now" or "I have it at home atm, where do you think we could meet again? I hope I dont forget to bring it". If a fire catchs up thats just more fuel for it.

Yeah, a lot of reasons vs physical books. I got off a rant and I was not even planning it. Nothing beats browsing a physical artbook tho.

[Anonymous No.3868204]

>>3868198
It's gonna sound like I'm a Kindle salesman but buying a Kindle was a godsend because of all the things you said. You can just lay down in your bed, head on the side of the pillow, kindle in your hand, and read for hours. I finished entire books by just shifting side in bed once. You can go full larva mode and read with not a worry in the world. I have all my books when I go out so I don't have to physically stuff a 700 page tome in my bag. The screen is amazing and is just like paper, no glare or eye strain like on a phone.

[Anonymous No.3868211]

>>3868204
I do hate my glare on my phone screen

I fight it by reading on black background and avoiding lightsources, pointing the phone directly at me. its easier at home where I have full control over lightning

a kindle might be good but for when Ill have spare money

can I read pirated book too on it or orly books bought from amazon kindle? Ive heard some bad things about the quality of those

[Anonymous No.3868229]

>>3868211
>can I read pirated book too on it or orly books bought from amazon kindle?
I'm a buyfag for most things but I have installed a few books in PDF and never had a problem. At worst you have to convert a file in Calibre. The issue is more with the files themselves (bad character recognition / conversion etc) than how the Kindle handles the files. You can either send your files to the Kindle using an e-mail address or you can just plug it in via USB and upload them into a folder directly.

[Anonymous No.3868245]

>>3868229
ah, if I can download files on it from the pc with an usb then everything should be fine

I prefer to use .epub s because I can change the format, does it work with those? how is its OS? like windows? like android? does it also have color options for an book like Anatomy for Sculptors or is it black and white only. I guess I could google some of those questions but your opinion on those is appreciated too

[Anonymous No.3868262]

>>3868245
For .epubs you have to convert them with Calibre. If the .epub is fine and doesn't have errors / isn't formatted like shit, it should look just fine on the Kindle. Of course you won't have all the functionalities but otherwise it's seamless.

The OS is a thing on its own, you navigate by touch, it takes ~1 second to go from screen to screen and it's a bit clunky, so if you plan on switching menus like crazy and going from book to book it's not ideal. In the end you just tap "Your Library" and tap the book and you're done. If you turn off the device and turn it back on it resumes at the page you left at. Boot time is like half a second. It even has a really shitty 'experimental' web browser that is borderline unusable, you can type stuff with a delay of 1 second per letter.
No color options, just B&W. It's clearly a limited thing for reading text, but it does what it does really well, mostly because the screen is so nice.
I bought it because I had sudden disposable cash but if you read a lot of books it's a great buy. The one I have is the new gen Paperwhite that came out this year.

[Anonymous No.3868275]

>>3867976
>I just really hate how everything in the west has to be fanart. Even new things that aren't fanart are clearly stemming off something that is already popular in that moment or riding some sort of wave. Every single youtube channel, artist on twitter, everything I follow has carved a niche that is based off some sort existing fandom.
>I'm sure that if you have an interesting original thing going on in Japan you get noticed. Maybe just a little but you get noticed. In the west? No fucking chance. A thing like OPM would never have happened in the west.

You'd just complain that OPM is biting off of something else

[Anonymous No.3868285]

>>3868055
Missing out, it's fucking fun.

[Anonymous No.3868286]

>>3868275
I'm not a weeb so I don't think I am biased, I don't read manga or watch anime. But I see a lot of things like Mushishi, or Tongari no Boushi, or Somali to Mori no Kamisama, or Pandemonium, or The Ancient Magus' Bride come up all the time. These are all unique, strange settings with a unique style and in a few cases they even got anime adaptations.
I don't see anything like that becoming popular in the west without latching on some kind of fandom first.

[Anonymous No.3868299]

>>3865059
1. Americans have become a crude and unimaginative people, incapable of creating new stories. Their “creativity” amounts to rehashing old myths and inverting them so that women take the role of men, blacks the position of whites, and so on. Most animation follows this same pattern - for instance the plot of Shrek is an inversion of the Bacchae.

2. Beyond a few graphics novels, Americans don’t have a suitable art style for interesting comics. They either draw realistic capeshit, in which every little muscle must be rendered, or they get mickey mouse toddlershit. Unlike the Japs they aren’t nuanced enough to create a style that’s appealing and still has realistic elements.

[Anonymous No.3868313]

>>3868299
>Unlike the Japs they aren’t nuanced enough to create a style that’s appealing and still has realistic elements.
I disagree, plenty of comics in Europe and even the US that have a semi-realistic style that works well. Most anime sits somewhere between "I am a teenager' and "I'm a horny lonely man" with a lot of overlap and very little nuance. Manga that try to shift away thematically also usually shift stylistically.

[Anonymous No.3868323]

>>3868313
>the US that have a semi-realistic style
Could you give some recent examples? The few that I know are really old, like Ozma

[Anonymous No.3868341]

>>3868323
Off the top of my head, Jake Wyatt (who also worked in actual capeshit)
I also don't like it, but a lot of indie / Tumblr comics are semi-realistic and look more like a bastardization of Disney. That style is really popular and it's everywhere in various degrees of stylization.
There's stuff like Unsounded that is semi-anime.
You have people like Peter Wartman who started to work on Avatar:TLA.
Steven Mannion who has a mix between 2000AD and R. Crumb style.

[Anonymous No.3868351]

>>3868323
>>3868341
Also Stokoe who has a crazy style

[Anonymous No.3868470]

>>3868299
This. Americans don't have usable, appealing styles. It's either stiff traced shit, or ugly cartoony shit.

[Anonymous No.3868605]

>>3868156
>>3868167
I really hate to sound like a bigot but you just sound old. Or really, badly nostalgic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpPSF7-Ctlc
Really that's exactly what's the real issue itt is mentally. Comics has changed in a way you all hate. While Manga barely has. It's familiarity. If a "Zoomer" today loves modern comics, you all will be the first to say "shit taste" because of the old status quo you all prefer. I'm not going to say I think >>3868147 looks worse than >>3866873, but it has nothing to do with "bogeymen technology" to me. Its purely composition overall getting "more boring". The act of fiction is to incite the unbelievable. For me, I don't care about comics not because "back in my day", I always hated American comics. Because I hated live action fantasy to begin with, even down to Star Trek and Star Wars. For me, realism ruined fiction for me for the longest time due to how "unbelievable" it was. If no one irl could do what Power Rangers or Superman was doing, how can I actually get into it? It just didn't work for me, and why I preferred cartoons for so long.

Now that half the shit that was considered "fiction" is steadily and briefly becoming reality now, I'm starting to like super hero stuff now as of late. Stuff like Batman or to something like Guardians of the Galaxy I actually enjoyed more than I would have as a kid. But that's going off topic, point is I only think Modern comics don't appeal to oldfags that is likely 99% of the people complaining about comics itt anymore, but at the same time, kids would rather see these comics online instead of owning physical things because it's modern, hence why "comics are dying". They aren't. It's just the old practice, the old medium, is dying.

[Anonymous No.3868699]

How do I draw flowers? I can only find "draw the rest of the fucking owl" video tuts

[Anonymous No.3868712]

>>3868470
Not americans, capefags.
There are appealing indie american comics styles. There's a lot of beautiful non-cape styles.

[Anonymous No.3868716]

French guy passing by, I don't even read many eurocomics but this fucking guy

https://www.google.com/search?hl=fr&biw=1536&bih=728&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=_TWcXIXUGbKIggfP8qmwAg&q=ptsd+singelin&oq=ptsd+singelin&gs_l=img.3..0j0i8i30.329748.331364..331554...0.0..0.170.2001.0j13......1....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i67j0i30.oWqMgvtKgg8#imgrc=Xv88Z8X0Zj7AUM:

This is so beautiful. His other comics were meh but this one is really, really worth it, both graphic (of course, this style is probably very polarizing) and story. It's also out in english. Not affiliated or something, I just thought I'd give some recent title since people always use the same old examples.

[Anonymous No.3868794]

>>3867976
This was something I wasn't at all expecting to read but its a really interesting point and something I hadn't noticed before. Its true. And the tragedy is that there was a point where Western audiences were more receptive to original works (in the context of online spaces). I think back on popular, successful online artists from the 2000s and many, many of them only posted original artwork.

I'm not sure what changed. The most plausible theory I can come up with is that smartphones changes who the audience was. Before smartphones the majority of online content and viewers were biased towards certain personality types. The first iPhone was released in late 2007 and it was some years before Android dropped and competitors made their own phones. At that point the masses spent more time online. Around this time period a lot of stuff was getting remade and rebooted whereas redos used to be rarer so people got accustomed to seeing the same ideas rehashed and lost their distaste for unoriginal ideas.

>>3868090
I actually think a lot of Tumblr artists are better at incorporating color into comics. I think the Western comic industry suffered an upset of traditional colorists having to get used to digital

[Anonymous No.3868807]

>>3868198
Are you like skeleton? Cause I never had problems with books being too heavy except Three Musketeers but they were like almost 1000 pages and I was 10 or 11 at the time.

Also nothing stops me from using digital books alongside physical. Just that in case if I have a choice I'll take a physical one.

Though storage is a problem - needed to move 400 books to local library.

[Anonymous No.3868874]

>>3867976
thats because ppl actually learn how to draw in schools in japan, so there is no need for art gurus. If anything, we need more art gurus to compensate for the lack of proper art education in schools (and when I say school I dont mean high school and up, but lower)

Problem is, even our art gurus, which are professional artists, are not better art teachers than their kindergarten teachers. So its shows its not the skill which matters the most in a teacher, but knowing how to give the tools for the student to learn on his own? Who knows how important of a factor their culture is in this too.

[Anonymous No.3868989]

For those who are interested in school art textbooks, here are some example pages.
https://www.mitsumura-tosho.co.jp/kyokasho/k_bijutsu/index.html

[Anonymous No.3868992]

presumably manga chapter

[Anonymous No.3869000]

>>3868605
>Why pop music sounds bad (to you)
>Your tastes are stuck at age 14
Yeah atrocious rap where a bunch of subhumans mumble about bitches and money isn't cancer, it's just my musical tastebuds that are defective even if I played and listened to any genre of music for a lifetime from classical to actual old school rap, and I discovered a new genre a week ago.

>>3868605
When I looked at that comic as I scanned I didn't like it, no fond memories of "this was such a nice comic", I hate capeshit and it was dumb even back in the 60s. I just liked it because I was a kid and I'm aware of it. The judgement on art was objective, those figures are nice and fluid, the new figures are stiff (probably because they're traced) and they lack that intentional exaggeration that the old comics had to look more heroic. There's also a lot of play in foreground / background in the old comics that makes things nicely composed. Old comics had a lot of panels that looked like shit, because the action was busy or spider-man was doing dumb stuff, but you can see the artist is competent and tried to capture some movement.

>kids
Kids don't read, period. Especially sjw infested crap about people discussing gender roles. I posted this >>3867567 >>3867569 there is nothing exciting in it, you flip the pages and you see it's just people standing and talking. Walls of text. Why would a kid care? Comics today are clearly a thing for 20yos. Same for cartoons, I've seen children switch channels when they saw Adventure Time saying they "hate it" and watched Fairly OddParents instead. People who talked about AT? 20yos.

>>3868874
>Problem is, even our art gurus, which are professional artists, are not better art teachers than their kindergarten teachers.
Cmon, it's not like every Japanese is a master draftsman. I've seen that article where Japanese children draw a lot better than Western kids because they're actually taught art, but even a lot of professional mangaka don't draw that well.

[Anonymous No.3869019]

>>3869000
>Yeah atrocious rap where a bunch of subhumans mumble about bitches and money isn't cancer
I'm Black boyo, and I fucking hate rap. And most of that shit was my teen years. That has nothing to do with that argument, but, what I did like around that time, I do have the most memories of thinking back. It's not "defective" autist, it's literally biology. I mean, yeah, if you don't think your a perfect little snowflake and realize humanity, nay, life period, is flawed, it could be considered a "defective" trait, but it's nothing speical, it's just life.

What the point was is I'm on the fence "taste" is not fucking ojbbective. Comics had a market, and how it was marketed in the past, has lost its value solely for doing exactly what you don't want it to do, what it wasn't doing in the past. That's nostalgia, don't deny it. But, the problem really is, what does this have to do with the quality of "western comics"? As of this thread, most of the appeal of modern day adults wants more cartoonish content, with story telling that has an "arc" that ends, and ultimately, had some kind of stake in there that feels like "we can move on to something else" at the end of it all, instead of the status quo. So ignoring if the youth of today actually likes the modern stuff but are a silent minority or so, the problem stems from needing new markets to pander to, with new talents to make it feel professional. Which is what makes otaku work better than "capeshit" is right now.

[Anonymous No.3869051]

>>3869019
>That's nostalgia, don't deny it.
I think the problems with modern capeshit are real, not just nostalgia. In those old comics you had a pretty simple plot, some villain does something, spider-man punches him, the end. You pick up a comic today and nothing happens in it. Manga are structured similarly to old comics, I don't have a JUMP! example but I'm sure there is some pacing layout that they stick to so that something happens and you don't just get a bunch of pages of boring dialogue.

In the end comics aren't even dying because of taste or executive decisions, it's just that kids today play videogames and waste the rest of their time on facebook. Pretty sure I like comics just because I like drawing so I'm attracted to the art aspect of it. If I didn't like drawing I wouldn't give a shit about comics and I'd just play DOTA like I did before I started.
Also people are obsessed with social media which is why things are being made solely so that they express certain values that people can retweet so they can look progressive. A whole lot of stuff is made like this and you can see it by the disparity between how popular things are and how much they actually sell.

[Anonymous No.3869446]

>>3865059
Make capeshit actual entertainment, and not thinly-veiled propaganda. Or scrap capeshit altogether. I'd prefer the latter.

[Anonymous No.3869461]

>>3869000
lol wypipo

[Anonymous No.3869564]

>>3865557
Living the dream

[Anonymous No.3869610]

>>3865059
Stop SJW and what Marx/communists say.

[Anonymous No.3869621]

>>3869610
how about you actually try thinking for yourself instead of spouting buzz words from some shitty youtube video that begs you for patreon bucks. there are 100 valid reasons why comics are shit and ‘the feminisms and sjws!!’ is the lowest on that list

[Anonymous No.3869651]

For the record I don't read (super hero) comics because

1. No matter how awesome the cover art is the inside can look like shit done by 5 different artist in 2 hours. Looks nothing like the cover most of the time

2 Where the hell do I start? If I want to read batman there are like 100000 different universes. I'm not digging through wikis to figure out how to read a comic. In most popular manga you start on Vol 01

3. Indie comics looks to be doing fine cause they generally follow 1 and 2. Saga, Black Science, etc.

[Anonymous No.3869656]

>>3869000
>Cmon, it's not like every Japanese is a master draftsman. I've seen that article where Japanese children draw a lot better than Western kids because they're actually taught art, but even a lot of professional mangaka don't draw that well.
I am not saying every average jojoe can draw better then our professional. But just because somebody is good at something, that doesnt mean they are good teachers too. Maybe our professional got good by being a rebel and not listening to his parents, and when he is going to have students, he just going to tell them to do whatever they want, when the japanese teacher would teach them discipline from a young age, and thats enough for the kid to learn on his own, coupled with the influences he gets from all around him.

[Anonymous No.3869672]

>>3865159
>secret dadaist
Haha

[Anonymous No.3869687]

>Fucking. Please. Think. Of. The. End. And. Then. Actually. End. Your. Story.
This should be painted in big fat letters on every upcoming story writer's wall whether they do books or comics or movies or anything else and they should be strapped into a chair with their eyes pried open and forced to stare at it for an hour a day

[Anonymous No.3869690]

>>3869687
Was in response to >>3866148

[Anonymous No.3869713]

>>3865069
Tell that tô toryama who had to change the villain of the Android arc 4 times because Toei execuções didn't like it

[Anonymous No.3869719]

>>3869687
>>3869690
>>3866148
retards keep buying the same characters for 80 years no matter how fucking low into the ground the quality is, why would you ever end it?
why would you ever end the Simpsons?
actually the alternate universe shit is the best way to go about it economically speaking
it's guaranteed income from autists, no risk of a total bomb, no need to create new properties every time.

[Anonymous No.3869728]

>>3869713
Like I said, it's to a far lesser degree
If an editor tried controlling the direction of a manga like western editors control comics, any mangaka would tell them to stick it up their ass and stop drawing the manga entirely

[Anonymous No.3869749]

>>3869719
That's true, and starting a new story that will not necessarily be popular is taking a risk. But whether you should do it depends on which you value more highly, drawing what you want or having a stable income. If you are smart about it you can have both

[Anonymous No.3870131]

>>3865569
>I honestly prefer black and white
As previously said, read 2000AD. Some of their best work is in black and white: Judge Dredd, Nemesis the Warlock, Robo-Hunter, Rogue Trooper, Strontium Dog.. and as much as you hate it, you may also be interested in Zenith, which resulted from that one time 2000AD let Grant Morrison do capeshit (it's also in black and white).
>If Manga were all coloured pages I wouldn't read it.
I kinda agree but I'd kill for an Akira full color reprint; scans of it have been floating around the net for a while now and they actually remind me of Philippe Druillet (Lone Sloane) or Mike Mignola (Hellboy), both whose work you should check out. When I was that kid reading manga in the middle of Barnes & Noble I was fascinated by the watercolor/marker splash pages I'd sometimes see in-between chapters. As far as I'm concerned, Japan never saw the same kind of a painted comics renaissance as the west did dating as far back to the 1970s. There are plenty of pen & ink stuff which I appreciate, but few color. I've always wondered why; in any case you should probably skim through "The Art of Painted Comics" and broaden your horizons a little bit:

http://libgen.io/comics/seriestable.php?series_hash=d72e91573c01745ee3c74d8db2e9c49b

[Anonymous No.3870153]

>>3869651
>Where the hell do I start? If I want to read batman there are like 100000 different universes. I'm not digging through wikis to figure out how to read a comic. In most popular manga you start on Vol 01
Had this problem too. It's actually easier than it seem nowadays with internet. Go on /co/, reddit or whatever, or just look for yourself for the recommanded Batman comics (TDKR, Longest Halloween, Morrison's Batman and Robin,etc etc) and just pick those. They can usually be read as stand alone.

About art I have to agree, but some artists like Frank Quitely are fucking awesome. See All Star Superman. This one got me into comics.

[Anonymous No.3870157]

>>3870153
If you need to find a guide on how to get into a fucking comic, it's way past over complicated

[Anonymous No.3870160]

>>3865101
Anon, Image Comics did to the comics industry what Gainax did to the anime industry; the fact they're the only ones who still publish Howard Chaykin's utter schlock proves how wrong you are.
>>3865569
>>3870131
>Not true for all but the art can be really poor in most popular ones, or from what I've seen anyway.
It's funny you mention capeshit's inaccessibility because Japan has a term for decades-old multimedia franchises that hasn't quite caught on yet in western media studies discourse: media mix. Artists and authors do their own runs on critically acclaimed manga all the time, they just get overshadowed by the toys, themed cafes and restaurants, as well as video game, television and film tie-ins. You don't notice it all because you don't live there, and despite publishers' best efforts, prospective international markets are still subverted by scanlation groups distributing their work for free, often years in advance. By the time official translations get licensed, it usually takes months in between releases anyway, and that's only for the most popular runs! As an /m/ fan I can't even begin to tell you the number of gundam manga that'll never see official translations, let alone an english digital release.

[Anonymous No.3870164]

>>3865101
Anon, Image Comics did to the comics industry what Gainax did to the anime industry; the fact they're the only ones who still publish Howard Chaykin's utter schlock proves how wrong you are.
>>3865569
It's funny you mention capeshit's inaccessibility because Japan has a term for decades-old multimedia franchises that hasn't quite caught on yet in western media studies discourse: media mix. Artists and authors do their own runs on critically acclaimed manga all the time, they just get overshadowed by the toys, themed cafes and restaurants, as well as video game, television and film tie-ins. You don't notice it all because you don't live there, and despite publishers' best efforts, prospective international markets are still subverted by scanlation groups distributing their work for free, often years in advance. By the time official translations get licensed, it usually takes months in between releases anyway, and that's only for the most popular runs! As an /m/ fan I can't even begin to tell you the number of gundam manga that'll never see official translations, let alone an english digital release.

[Anonymous No.3870226]

Just read Image Comics like anyone who's actually interested in the medium.

[Anonymous No.3870968]

>>3869610
>the modern comics industry is marxist
holy shit you have the smoothest brain

[Anonymous No.3870989]

>>3870164
>As an /m/ fan I can't even begin to tell you the number of gundam manga that'll never see official translations, let alone an english digital release.
That's an isolated case though, in 90% of cases you just read the original manga and you're okay. Wanna read Ghost in the Shell, you start with the 1991 manga. Wanna read Dragonball, you pick up the tankobon. It's easy.
With Spider-Man you can pick up the original run but there's no real story that has a beginning and an end, it's all episodic. And then at some point it starts over again. And over and over.

[Anonymous No.3871073]

>>3870968
I can't speak for Europe (although their media has DEFINATELY been subverted) but if you think American capeshit isn't Marxist and probably communist, you're fucking retarded. And it's always been that way too.

[Anonymous No.3871152]

>>3870989
>That's an isolated case though
It's not; one look at the Japanese Kindle Store's search results would likely overwhelm anyone who wasn't already an otaku themselves. My point was that it's easy for westerners to get into manga because unless there's a reasonably large demand for more, we only ever get the classics licensed over here. We get new comic issues practically on IV drip by comparison.
>Wanna read Ghost in the Shell, you start with the 1991 manga. Wanna read Dragonball, you pick up the tankobon. It's easy.
Consider all of the little nips whose first exposure to GITS and Dragon Ball has been through the ARISE and Super manga respectively. I think you're just complaining that people in the western comics industry don't idolize the "artist-author" as much as their manga counterparts do.
>but there's no real story that has a beginning and an end, it's all episodic.
So? A lot of the earliest popular manga were essentially written as scripts for tokusatsu and anime.shows (you can thank Osamu Tezuka for that). You don't need an overarching story to grow attached to certain character designs. The episodic nature of them all means that just about anything can be done with them. Hell, that's the whole appeal of Spider-Man right? "Anyone can wear the mask!" Initial struggles adapting B&W manga to film and television also comes to mind, when mangaka and animators used any colors they had on hand for hair.
>>3871073
Some of the greatest Italian comics were heavily influenced by the Years of Lead; you should read pic related. Also, capeshit has never really had the capacity to be explicitly marxist or even anarchist without completely uprooting established tropes; look past the woke shit because there ain't nothing deep about it. On the other hand, one of the best indie comics publishers right now, Black Mask are specifically interested in stories reflecting more marxist/anarchist sympathies; definitely recommend checking them out: https://blackmaskstore.com/

[Anonymous No.3871157]

>>3870989
>That's an isolated case though
It's not; one look at the Japanese Kindle Store's search results would likely overwhelm anyone who wasn't already an otaku themselves. My point was that it's easy for westerners to get into manga because unless there's a reasonably large demand for more, we only ever get the classics licensed over here. We get new comic issues practically on IV drip by comparison.
>Wanna read Ghost in the Shell, you start with the 1991 manga. Wanna read Dragonball, you pick up the tankobon. It's easy.
Consider all of the little nips whose first exposure to GITS and Dragon Ball has been through the ARISE and Super manga respectively. I think you're just complaining that people in the western comics industry don't idolize the "artist-author" as much as their manga counterparts do.
>but there's no real story that has a beginning and an end, it's all episodic.
So? A lot of the earliest popular manga were essentially written as scripts for tokusatsu and anime.shows (you can thank Osamu Tezuka for that). You don't need an overarching story to grow attached to certain character designs. The episodic nature of them all means that just about anything can be done with them. Hell, that's the whole appeal of Spider-Man right? "Anyone can wear the mask!" Initial struggles adapting B&W manga to film and television also comes to mind, when mangaka and animators used any colors they had on hand for hair.
>>3871073
Some of the greatest Italian comics were heavily influenced by the Years of Lead; you should read pic related. Also, capeshit has never really had the capacity to be explicitly marxist or even anarchist without completely uprooting established tropes; look past the woke shit because there ain't nothing deep about it. On the other hand, one of the best indie comics publishers right now, Black Mask are specifically interested in stories reflecting more marxist/anarchist sympathies; definitely recommend checking them out: https://blackmaskstore.com/

[Anonymous No.3871263]

>>3871073
Labeling modern cape comics "marxist" and "probably communist" is completely retarded.

They're are pandering liberals and that's it.
For two simple reasons: more liberals are reading comics, and more liberals are making comics.

[Anonymous No.3871297]

>>3868090
This is because a comic artist can't make much money from actually drawing comic books, they make their money from selling the original pages later on so they make them as fancy looking as possible to increase their market value as collector's items and not as storytelling pieces

[Anonymous No.3871302]

>>3865069
This is not true at all, everything is scrutinized in that industry. Just look at what happened to Tite Kubo, he went insane because of it. Shonen jump editors are really mean, they bully all mangakas into submission. Either way mangas are more of a team effort than American comics.

[Anonymous No.3871691]

>>3871297
Yes, you're absolutely right. I was going to mention that as well. Capeshit artists get their money from comissions and selling original comic pieces. The art is made with collectors in mind, not so much the story and being fluid. The few comic artists I follow always talk about originals and selling; you don't hear such things from manga artists nearly as much (at least not to my knowledge).

A comic page with batman standing stiff and statuesque is gonna look more attractive to a collector than an action-packed page with batman throwing punches, warped and blurred with speedlines. Even though the latter is WAY more interesting to read.

[Anonymous No.3874227]

>>3867600
>>>>3867536 isn't bad. But the movement looks exaggerated and unrealistic. Also black and white is boring.
Its a fucking drawing faggot its supposed to be exaggerated.

[Anonymous No.3874237]

>>3867537
Did the same person make that sketch? What even happened and how do you prevent your finished product from looking like flaming dog shit

[Anonymous No.3874246]

>>3874237
The sketch is by Daniel Acuna, it's written on it
The artist for the final is Paolo Rivera, there's the site in the bottom left

[Anonymous No.3874255]

>>3874227
>When a single panel from a weekly manga made by an artist who mostly draws without reference and barely a pencil sketch is a million times better than the cover art you had to use 6 gigabytes of 3d reference for
Is it even physically possible to be more BTFO than this

[Anonymous No.3874274]

>>3865134
Are there any american published Urasawa manga?

[Anonymous No.3874275]

>>3865147
Who? Oda?

[Anonymous No.3874453]

>>3871073
>minorities voting is communism
the absolute state of nuchan

[Anonymous No.3874474]

>>3874453
It's not the minorities voting, it's the liberals who believe they are minorities believing they are the majority voting for communism
They're very close to being the majority, with each passing year there's a new wave of liberals just turned 18

[Anonymous No.3874484]

>>3874474
sorry my bad
>liberals voting is communism
the absolute state of nuchan

[Anonymous No.3874488]

>>3874484
no no
liberals voting FOR communism
this is what they are doing

[Anonymous No.3874491]

>>3874488
anon literally any self-respecting communist doesn't operate on reformist measures, they operate on revolutionary ones
the average succdem like bernie getting voted in is a far fucking cry from lenin getting brought back to life

[Anonymous No.3874495]

>>3874491
no
they are not communists
they are voting for communism
I know it will end in disaster
but they do not

[Anonymous No.3874496]

>>3874495
anon again
voting in a succdem does not equal voting for communism
there is a bajillion degrees of difference between someone like aoc and mao
jesus FUCK i wish they were voting for communism

[Anonymous No.3874509]

>>3874491
Based vietnamese

[Anonymous No.3874742]

>>3874496
>>3874495
The US are so afraid of socialism they think having cops and public health makes your country communist. It's insane.

[Anonymous No.3875985]

>>3865147
Nobuhiro Watsuki got away with cheese pizza, meanwhile looking in the general direction of an ugly fat bitch with a twitter account gets you fired from Marvel.

[Anonymous No.3875994]

>>3865761
>Haven't comics got more popular with the help of the MCU?
Marvel's 2016 and 2017 sales were consistently lower than DC for the first time since 1968 and the only thing that really sells at DC is Batman.

If they weren't owned by the two largest media conglomerates in America and sustained to be used as IP farms, both would be bankrupt.

[Anonymous No.3876008]

>>3867806
They used to be cool in the brief period when they dropped the early 90's grittypouch look and tried to emulate manga covers with copics and watercolor. Then it turned to PS pillowshaded crap.

[Anonymous No.3876021]

>>3867806
capeshit can have good colouring, but the 'house style' rules often override the author's intentions
example one, they recolored The Killing Joke for its rerelease, resulting in a more 'realistic' style, which takes away the charm of the original and how it compliments the storytelling

[Anonymous No.3876024]

>>3876021
example 2, not that the art was stellar in the beginning, but the colourist mistook closed eyes for open ones, resulting in... this
it was so bad the artist himself publicly shat on DC that they allowed this to release and put out a fixed version himself - it was used for the physical release

[Anonymous No.3876031]

>>3876024
my point is, in capeshit pencillers get the biggest credit and recognition, while inkers and colourists get the shaft
I really like Brett Booth's pencils - they're dynamic, expressive to the point of being caricatural, and what's important to me, fun - you don't need too much realism in a superhero genre after all
however, he teams up with Rapmund, who adds a disgustingly shiny effect to the pencils, and Dalhouse, whose colours look like vomit - see literally any Teen Titans, The Flash or Titans issue for examples

[Anonymous No.3876040]

>>3876024
I hate the shit they do with the inks, where they blur/color them.
They're drawn to look sharp and dynamic why ruin them after

[Anonymous No.3876046]

>>3870131
You should have a look at Storm.
Art by Don Lawrence who was mainly a UK comics illustrator but got big in mainland Europe.

[Anonymous No.3876056]

>>3867537
Amazing. That guy has real life model reference, he has someone rigging a 3D scene for him, he has 3D model reference for the expression, HE HAS SOMEONE MAKING GOOD ART FOR HIM, and he still fails to produce anything pleasing to the eye.

[Anonymous No.3876069]

>>3876040
as I said, the colourist was dreadful here
here's the physical release page, iirc done fully by the penciller
I couldn't find the original pencils for that page (I know they're somewhere bc I've seen them), but there are pencils https://www.deviantart.com/davidyardin/art/Hi-Res-Pencils-for-inkers-Injustice-17-page-6-376358551 and inks https://www.deviantart.com/davidyardin/art/HiRes-Catwoman-Injustice-Gods-Among-Us-17-p-6-ink-376205239 from that same issue on his dA

[Anonymous No.3876073]

>>3867182
God I can’t wait till this happens in the US

[Anonymous No.3876129]

>>3876073
the US are too obsessed with politics to produce art

[Anonymous No.3876134]

No one likes Flash Thompson.

[Anonymous No.3876135]

>>3876021
Wait which one is supposed to be the good one?
>NNMF
>HHUT

>>3876024
fucking kek

[Anonymous No.3876155]

>>3876073
>>3876129
I believe its a USA attitude that holds USA comics back. If you look at early manga or ligne claire, its all clean. The action is paced and the details are subtle. There’s a few artists and writers in the USA who are great at that sort of thing but they only seem to be able to get to the forefront through decades of work.
I believe that USA publishers cant get out of that dumb EXXXTREME attitude where everything needs to have aggressive black jagged shading, lurid colours, loads of screaming, huge muscles and endless fights. It’s really dumb and aims for the lowest common denominator. Even European adult comics are better than this. Even some of the most puerile and juvenile stuff like VIZ is better. I kind of think manga is sitting somewhere in between at the moment too. Some artists heavily rely on huge tits, characters that needlessly scream and even sitting at a table having a conversation seems to need 100000 action lines. It’s all surface. Not everything needs to be an action film with a million guns.
Pic related, one of the USA most important comics and probably the best ever, style wise.

[Anonymous No.3876168]

>>3876021
The 180 rule break triggers me, if you really want to do it make it when the role is switched and keep it so that you go towards the next page

This is Bolland or something? Why would he do that

[Anonymous No.3876194]

>>3876135
that's a question for the ages here; the original version is disliked by the original penciller as unfaithful to his ideas, while the remastered version loses its edge and psychedelic vibe for a more streamlined look, which a lot of fans don't like
(the writer thinks this story is shit and so I don't think he has an opinion on either)
this http://myabsolutecollection.blogspot.com/2015/04/batman-killing-joke-deluxe-edition.html has some comparisons between a b/w version, remastered and original
>>3876168
yup, Bolland - he was apparently really pissed at Higgins making it in "garish ... hideous glowing purples and pinks", so he recoloured the rerelease himself
>>3876129
I think the biggest issue is the audience - what sells is what's being made, no matter whether we're talking about the US market or the Japanese one, and the US just likes more of the same; notice how every change to the status quo meets with resistance at the start - in this matter, I rarely agree with DC's publisher, Dan Didio, in that a good model for capeshit would be to put out stories and make only the acclaimed ones canon - after all, the best ones weren't really written as such
also US comics evolved from the Japanese model of publishing in magazines, early stories were packed together in 'Detective Comics' or 'Action Comics'; only relatively recently those became another Superman/Batman titles; this makes me wonder what is stopping, say, Weekly Shonen Jump from splitting One Piece into a separate title - would it impact income so negatively ?

[Anonymous No.3876196]

>>3876135
also, the grunts were actually in the script - Moore is... pretty verbose when comes to writing, compared even to other writers

[Anonymous No.3876199]

>>3876194
I think they're both perfectly valid color jobs, one is more realistic whereas the original one is more like an old school comic book. I haven't read this comic so I don't know what mood fits better, but generally speaking I wouldn't touch the source material because art shouldn't be touched once it's done.

>>3876196
I REALLY don't like how much vocalization there is in cape comics. It's so weird and unrealistic. This is even more weird because there are no sound effects when a huge CRACK would have been perfectly fitting in the last panel, but at the same time they do all these goofy vocalizations.
And I don't get the "don't" when Batman is blinded. Don't what? Weird writing.

[Anonymous No.3876204]

>>3876194
>this makes me wonder what is stopping, say, Weekly Shonen Jump from splitting One Piece into a separate title - would it impact income so negatively ?
That would be a disaster. Jump would lose the audience who buys Jump only to read the big titles like One Piece, and Oda would have to produce impossible amounts of work to keep publishing enough material to stand on his own, and there would probably be a price increase on the same amount of pages. Smaller authors would have much less exposure. The magazine format is actually great in many ways, they just have to tone down the workaholism.

[Anonymous No.3876205]

>>3876021

[Anonymous No.3876208]

>>3876205
Didnt he get that style in via doing vertigo stuff? Which was pretty much an experiment like marvels EPIC?

[Anonymous No.3876211]

>>3874453
They pretty much are. They all need to go back.

[Anonymous No.3876213]

>>3876199
the redoing is actually one of the few times I can justify an author coming back and changing stuff, because his vision clashed so heavily with what was released - doesn't mean I have to like it though
and when it comes to sound effects like you said, they kinda went out of fashion and can be seen as lame remnants of an era long past - though sometimes can be used creatively (in pic related Bizarro, the pale Superman, speaks in reverse, so "Okay! Me am listening" really means "No! I am not listening" - the sound effects coming from him accentuate his reverted nature)

>>3876204
but it's not like OP is the only high-tier WSJ title, they have 21 more with at least 8 really well-known and marketed - and OP would sell by itself anyways, not in the numbers WSJ sells but I bet there's a significant overlap between OP fans and readers of other titles, who would end up buying both magazines

[Anonymous No.3876214]

>>3876213
also, since I was talking about scripts, there are two schools of writing capeshit (not kidding, they are actually taught to novice writers); Moore's script fits perfectly into the DC method, which is giving the artist as much description as possible, with the artists being the 'drawing hand' of the writer
on the other hand, we have the Marvel school, which gives loose guidelines to the artists - funnily enough, Tom King from DC is a perfect example of this; pic related would probably have a script consisting only of 'full-page shot, Bruce stands next to his parent's grave', if it wasn't for the fact he's an unfulfilled novelist and can't stop making his characters talk the fuck out

[Anonymous No.3876224]

>>3876213
It would be a very bad idea because while WSJ has other titles that sell, for the most part, OP carries a bulk of the sales but also the magazine itself.

What I mean by that is, not only monetary gain, but also trickling down to other mangas and increasing exposure. For example, lets say there's a hot new WSJ manga, but because its new it has a small dedicated reading base.

When little brats Taro and Shino buy their weekly magazine, they do it to read One Piece or Burrito, not other shit they dont care about. BUT, if the magazine advertises this hot new manga and its just a few flicks of paper away, so little brats Taro and Shino will check it out because eh, they already bought this shit, might aswell. And out of the two, Shino likes it and decides to check it out next week aswell.

This model is how you have even wierd niche things in Weekly Shonen Jump, they are carried by the big boys and share in profit, because those big boys used to be carried by Jojo, Kenshiro and Dragon Ball.

[Anonymous No.3876236]

>>3876224
okay, now I get it, that's something I didn't think of
though it's not like they keep the really niche things, WSJ is more trigger-happy when it comes to cancellations than US publishers - but I guess it's because they have space to take risks, releasing a separate magazine is more expensive than sacrifising a few pages in something you're already printing

[Anonymous No.3876244]

>>3876205

[Anonymous No.3876248]

>>3876213
The page you posted isn't clever or funny, it's horrible. How can you guys read this absolute drivel?

[Anonymous No.3876262]

>>3876129
please, shut up.

[Anonymous No.3876265]

>>3876155
>It’s really dumb and aims for the lowest common denominator.
The problem is that capes appeal to children and retards. Nobody else cares about capes outside of the movies and that's just beacuse they're marketed so heavily. Even shonen manga are not this unbearably stupid.
There is no way to write capes well, because the first thing you'd do would be to not write capes.

[Anonymous No.3876271]

>>3876248
it's clever for a cape comic
when you have nothing you're happy with what you have (though that may be my post-commie syndrome)

[Anonymous No.3876281]

>>3865059
stop pandering to the fringe left

[Anonymous No.3876282]

>>3876271
But you could simply read other comics. ANY other comic or manga would be better than this.
No offense but I don't understand how is it possible to be held hostage by characters like Superman, they are garbage created in the 30s as mouthpieces for propaganda and advertisements, there is no personality or storyline to get attached to.

Have you tried reading Usagi Yojimbo, Hellboy, Judge Dredd etc.?

[Anonymous No.3876286]

>>3876282
I meant that among capeshit there's not much competition
it's like fastfood, I know it's not great but I like the taste dammit (at least I'm gonna by picky and pick only the better ones, ain't touching a lot of them with a pole)

and it's not like I only read those comics, I have an even bigger affinity towards European Disney comics, especially Donald ones

[Anonymous No.3876576]

>>3867591
When the CCA went away most people had already given up, it's why so many genres died out in the states, only capes were really able to survive at the time.

[Anonymous No.3877283]

>>3865059
stop Diamond distribution or have new comic producers that don't rely on that monopoly

Better art. face it, capeshit is fucking ugly most of the time. Appeal matters. Granted, there's a plethora of issues with capeshit and American comics in general. But the bottom line is, the shit is ugly. I feel that the movies generate a lot of potential comic fans who try to read the comics but cannot commit after trying because subconsciously the shit looks unappealing.

[Anonymous No.3878304]

>>3865306
I doubt it was because of a "jewish god complex", I mean this was during the time in a America were they had been in a depression for nearly a decade.

[Anonymous No.3878315]

>>3865059
It’s because most of the comics in America are rehash of stories ( talking about marvel and dc), people love seeing new things. Not the same repetitive shit.

[Anonymous No.3879327]

I think the point is that nowadays people who have creative talent don't choose comic as their media in US. Rather, they go to live action like film or video game. But in Japan a lot of talented people choose manga now. Instead there's few good live action works in Japan.

[Anonymous No.3879414]

>>3876265
guys....how do i make my superhero characters more jojo or less "cape" like?i don't people to dismiss my comics as just another "cape" comic

[Anonymous No.3879447]

>>3879414
This is like asking how to make a samurai comic without swords in it. You can't.
You could change your tone into comedy, but a person who is into people with superpowers running around in a costume usually likes this kind of humor >>3876213 >>3866937
I would just use the BNHA formula 1:1 (so X-Men) and go cartoony. Kid characters, something like an academy, cute girls, more funky designs for the suits. Give the main character an interesting power instead of "punching really hard", that's what made Worm popular and it's possibly one of the most clever things you can do. A power that is seemingly useless / ineffective but is actually really powerful as the user's ability increases.
Also you could mix capeshit with magical girls, there's a lot of overlap but you can probably do something clever across the two genres. You could make it sci-fi instead of modern. You could do it with furries.

[Anonymous No.3879464]

>>3879414
Jojo itself is not only very specific, but also broad - there is little comparison between characters from parts 1-early 4 and 5-8, so you'd first need to figure out which Araki are you
and like >>3879447 said
>Give the main character an interesting power instead of "punching really hard"
>A power that is seemingly useless / ineffective but is actually really powerful as the user's ability increases
That is a big strength of Jojo fights, where it's most of the time less 'how strong is your Stand' and more 'what can your Stand do and how cam I work around it'

Ultimately however the character designs may sway the readers' opinions, if it looks like a superhero or has a superhero-like name, it's a lot more likely to be branded capeshit without being looked at

[Anonymous No.3879499]

>>3879464
capeshit strength has some difference compared to anime strength

Anime strength is all about power levels, going from weak to strong, strong emphesis on emotion
but in capeshit the strength is static with the exception of the character being mad, and even then it doesn't really change they're strength, they just act more cruel

[Anonymous No.3879539]

Just because the vast majority of capes are written by retards for retards, doesn't mean that there's not potencial in the genre.

[Anonymous No.3879550]

>>3879414
spandex -> high fashion
flying brick -> normal guys with powers
50's ad heads -> greek statues
superhero -> action hero (ish)
+ arakis eye for detail and bizarre events

[Anonymous No.3879566]

>>3871073
How can they be communist if they're writing for a franchise run by some of the most pure capitalist entities on Earth like Marvel and Disney?
They're just your average progressive liberals.

[Anonymous No.3879577]

>>3879539
There's potential in every genre, but right now I don't think its unfair to say capeshit is creatively dry.

[Anonymous No.3879587]

>>3879577
I agree, there's some half decent stuff like Spider Man Life Story and the immortal hulk, which are being praised because they at least attempt something different that the norm, but actually great things are few and far between, and the entire industry suffers, it's not like things are going to get better anyway, capeshit comics are just IP farms now.

[Anonymous No.3879599]

>>3879587
Yeah, thats the sad truth. The real money is in those god awful movies.

[Anonymous No.3879630]

>>3879464
i'm a uncreative hack so i'm not good at making jojo like powers through i have one notable character who has the power to create eyeballs on his body or on certain surfaces.

I have yet to draw this character.

[Anonymous No.3879637]

>>3879577
Fucking Sonichu has dialogue more legible than this.

[Anonymous No.3879715]

>>3865145
>Murata is also obscenely skilled and imo outclasses Kim Jung Gi
You’ve gotta be fucking kidding me. Murata is good but it takes him 10 minutes of messy sketching and erasing to achieve something that Kim Jung Gi can do in like 30 seconds with ink.

[Anonymous No.3879763]

>>3879715
Time matters not, only quality of outcome

[Anonymous No.3879789]

>>3879763
>Time matters not, only quality of outcome
lol no the worst arc of berserk took 8 years and it is just filler
stretching the manga for so many years like this should be a crime

[Anonymous No.3879833]

>>3879789
Murata and Miura are not comparable at all in terms of speed and you know it. Murata literally puts out 100 page chapters just because he feels like it, speed is not a problem at all and he works faster than 99% of mangaka. I highly doubt KJG could do what Murata does, he's only ever done a comic once and it wasn't that good.

[Anonymous No.3879894]

I would create a battle shounen comic but totally in right wing pov. It's millennials' majority political stand and also board's culture.

[Anonymous No.3879896]

I can recognize KJG's skill, but his artstyle just doesn't appeal to me.

[Anonymous No.3879899]

>>3879896
who?

[Anonymous No.3879902]

>>3879899
Jiro Matsumoto

[Anonymous No.3879907]

>>3879577
>All that text for some chit chat
>that terrible dialogue
>ugly, unappealing artstyle
>ugly pastel coloring
I'd bet anything that there's almost no fucking action in this comic issue too. It just LOOKS like it wasn't made for action, not that it would be drawn well and executed properly anyways. And this comic isn't some rare exception. Most of the modern capeshit stuff lacks good action and the Marvel stuff barely even looks like superhero comics anymore. When someone opens this up and reads it, does anyone honestly think they're going to find this appealing and get invested? This shit deserves to die.

[Anonymous No.3879926]

>>3879896
KJG is just a local meme. He's not as successful or critically acclaimed as the ammount of dicksucking he gets here would imply.

[Anonymous No.3879928]

>>3879907
capeshit is dogshit and the ppl who are trying to get back to the comic book standards of the 80s and 90s deserve to be skinned and boiled alive

[Anonymous No.3879935]

>>3879894
You mean like that one Trump battle manga that anon from here made?

[Anonymous No.3879939]

>>3879894
Virgins: the comic

[Anonymous No.3879995]

>>3879935
What?

Someone made a manga about Trump?

[Anonymous No.3879997]

>>3879995
It's probably my hero magademia kek

[Anonymous No.3880000]

>>3879926
KJG is an artist's artist pretty much. Normies assume that's how you draw.

[Anonymous No.3880002]

>>3879715
Apples and oranges IMO but Murata's shit is absolutely flawless

[Anonymous No.3880003]

>>3879995
>>3879997

This one:

https://youtu.be/KbCYwDAAoKU

It’s from like 3 years ago.

[Anonymous No.3880030]

>>3880003
why is a shitpost of a comic about a political debate more enjoyable and better drawn than actual capeshit

[Anonymous No.3880098]

>>3879935
Trump is a white supremacist and not right wing. Right wing comic has nothing to do with racism.

[Anonymous No.3880154]

>>3880003
Oh yeah. I remember that! Whatever happened to that guy?

[Anonymous No.3880155]

>>3880030
SOUL

[Anonymous No.3880249]

>>3879577
The only good thing that came out of this book was the /co/ letter

[Anonymous No.3880602]

>>3880002
I wouldn't call him flawless he has mistakes here and there. Mostly characters being a little skewed when he was drawing them very fast during dialogue.

But his action is unmatched. KJG may be better at drawing people and objects in a moment but Murata wins when it comes to actually doing action in manga from frame to frame.

[Anonymous No.3880665]

>>3880098
This is the most retarded post I've seen all week

[Anonymous No.3880880]

>>3880602
I think Inoue is KJG tier, maybe better. He's a stronger artist than Terada who is known for doing the same thing as KJG but suffers from repetitive subject matter. Inoue draws manga with a brush and no sketch or something really basic for composition. There's a video where he draws a crowd in a spread with a brush and it's absolutely insane, he conjures people outta nowhere like KJG, but he's got so much more movement than KJG who draws pretty static subjects. I think he might be better than KJG at actual brushwork, he does some very fine hatching just flawlessly and it's incredibly hard to do, I don't know if KJG is capable of that since he uses disposable brushes most of the time, but his work is more loose.

[Anonymous No.3882070]

>>3879763
>Time matters not, only quality of outcome
Not if youre trying to make a comic book series