The "/i(n)c/el parralels

[Anonymous No.3766440]

>There's no way I can {get bitches} make art, I'm clearly disadvantaged by nature.
>{chads} Pro artists never give good {advice} critiques. They always tell me to do {basic human functions} boring beginner things.
>It's clear I can't {get girls} do art because I'm not {chad} smart enough.
>How do I do this really simple thing?
>How do I do this really complex thing that takes years of hard work to achieve in no time?
>I can't {get a girl} do art... I just can't... I just want to kill myself.
> I have no previous skills but I'm trying really hard to do {this one girl} one pose. Do you know what {car & cologne} Anatomy book should I get to do think thing that I lack basic understanding of simple concepts to accomplish?

Please don't be that guy.
Whether in art or in any aspects of life, don't shift your blame onto others or things you can't control, take people's advice, take responsibility, and do things in proper order.
If you feel like you are done in art, please refrain on making a thread crying about how it's your genes or /ic/s fault for not allowing you to become an artist.
If you feel like you are not progressing, make sure you have the basics covered before you move forward. you wouldn't try running before you learned to walk, you owuldn't try juggling before learning how to hold, catch and throw. be mindful of the steps.
Please remember almost all good artists you see online are half a decade, a decade, 2 decades and above deep in art, and with growing life expectancy you have several decades left to keep honing your art skills (some people pick up art in their 60s, 70s and 80s etc, there's no reason for you to complain in your teens, 20s, and 30s)
Please don't blame younger artists and faster learners for being "more talented" they worked hard for their skill and they don't deserve it being thrown out as "plain talent"
Keep working hard, and don't be an /i(n)c/el

Thank you for reading my text wall

[Anonymous No.3766442]

Stop projecting

[Anonymous No.3766444]

/ic/ stands for incel citadel, sweaty :)

[Anonymous No.3766457]

>>3766442
I wish I was
Being good with art and bitches suck.
"draw me pls" gets annoying after a while.
>>3766444
I shoulda kno... wait... I see what you did there, you misspelled that on purpose... clever.

[Anonymous No.3766480]

>>3766440
This is a good post. Here's some art by Mabel Ye, she used to be an /ic/ poster.

[Anonymous No.3766513]

>>3766480
I think I'm subbed to her on youtube
I've seen her stuff up there before
thanks for reading, anon!

[Anonymous No.3766526]

>>3766457
>>3766440
But you are projecting. You literally made this thread for a hypothetical person struggling with these issues.
>>3766480
Mabel Ye is great, but this thread is awful. Most people struggle with self-doubt, but the things OP is describing is unique to a very small subset of individuals. The fact that OP felt the need to make the thread suggests that maybe they've dealt with it in the past, or they're dealing with it now, hence the accusations of projection.

[Anonymous No.3766596]

>>3766526
I made this thread with examples of things you hear around IC. there are daily threads of people blaming IC or talent for not helping them, bitching about art and talent and crying about all the help they get here is useless. There is no 1 person that has all of these ( or at least I hope so) just like there's no one incel with all these issues combined ( or at least I hoppe so). The idea of this is to draw parallels between one type of loser and another, since at a certain point these questions stops being about art and start being just bitching and refusal to help oneself.

The reason I'm bringing it up is cause I thought the similarities were interesting, and to discourage people from making such threads because they are nothing but bitching

If you really want I can link you the threads that are saying the exact things I called out.

[Anonymous No.3766613]

pls kys ty

[Anonymous No.3766626]

no, you

[Anonymous No.3766776]

>>3766440
love u op, appreciate u, keep doing what u do, ur fighting the good fight

[Anonymous No.3766852]

>>3766440
Yeah, I always notice striking similarities with /ic/ and the stereotypical /r9k/ incels. Doesn't help that those boards are right next to each other in the list

[Anonymous No.3766870]

>>3766440
Maybe depressed people with crippling self esteem problems and suicidal tendencies tend to sound the same?
How is that surprising, you act like one of those fags that tell clinical depressed people to just "snap out of it"

[Anonymous No.3766872]

wat

[Anonymous No.3766876]

>>3766440
based
>>3766526
>>3766870
cringe

[Anonymous No.3766878]

>>3766870
Maybe people are responsible for their own thoughts, considering that therapy is more effective for depression than medication. You can change the way you think.

[Anonymous No.3766895]

>>3766876
Yeah, keep saying facts are cringe, reject.

>>3766878
>You can change the way you think.
Fucking kek, like that actually matters when it's rooted on hivemind mentality in the first place.

[Anonymous No.3766909]

Based post OP

[Anonymous No.3766911]

>>3766878
Everyone's a fucking expert on depression aren't we. I've been struggling with it for 10 years. It only got worse with the years and it's paralyzing. I quit drawing, I quit doing everything. I have trouble doing basic things like brushing my teeth. Therapy didn't do shit and so did medicines, that crap only works if you're having a temporary crisis and you feel mildly blue. Real depression from a fucked up brain that makes you think about suicide 24/7 is a nightmare and there's no cure for it. No amount of walks in the park and exercise and talking with a therapist and useless placebo medicines can fix shit when every waking moment is pure pain and you hate yourself with the burning intensity of a thousand suns. Nobody from the outside can understand how fucking hard it is to keep living like this.

[Anonymous No.3766920]

>>3766911
I thought the same thing until a week ago when I started taking vitamin supplements... zinc, vitamin d, c, magnesium. Used to sleep like 12-14 hours a day going to bed later an hour later each night. Super depressed. Hadn't drawn in 5+ years. Went AWOL from work because seasonal affective disorder + depression. Have been depressed for 10+ years. Tried a bunch of medications that either didn't work or zombified me.

Now I feel fucking great. It sounds retarded but just try it, nothing to lose.

[Anonymous No.3766921]

>>3766911
you do realize you're proving my point, right?

[Anonymous No.3766929]

>>3766921
You can't change the way you think if your brain is defective. There is no rationalization behind it, I just hate every second of being alive and I only feel ok when I sleep. Everything I do only makes me feel worse.

>>3766920
I'll try that, sure.

[Anonymous No.3766931]

>>3766921
Not him but "changing the way you think" doesn't mean shit when you are stuck in a depressive brain fog. When I get out of a real bad episode I usually think "wtf was I doing lol". Sometimes I barely remember what happened because depression can fuck with memory formation too.

Perhaps you don't appreciate how much of your behavior isn't because of your thought patterns but because of innate drives. Imagine you have zero appetite until hunger pangs overcome your inertia, zero sex drive, zero desire for socialization, zero desire to get out of bed. It isn't that you are sad, you just don't desire anything. The sadness and shame actually comes when you begin to climb OUT of the depression because you can taste human emotions at that point. Now imagine you are temporarily slightly retarded on top of that so you can barely remember a time not like this and can't imagine a future any different. What do you do from here?

[Anonymous No.3766933]

>>3766931
>>3766929
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy

[Anonymous No.3766934]

>>3766911

https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/06/03/tolstoy-confession/

I'm sorry you're going through that, anon. May I hear more about it, if you feel comfortable sharing?

[Anonymous No.3766953]

>>3766440
Some (read: most) people just don't make it at all. They don't get that good. They don't do it for very long. Their stuff is rarely ever heard of. They aren't satisfied with their own skill.
You can tell all of these people to just suck it up, that it's their own fault anyway. But that's just being a dick about it. It's not fun to suck. And the majority of everyone who will ever try any art will suck.
I can appreciate the "work hard, don't give up" sentiment though.

[Anonymous No.3766956]

>>3766933
I've done that. The therapist straight up said my case was beyond what CBT could do. My doctors told me that my only hope was getting into a psychiatric hospital to get pumped with new medicines until something works or I become a zombie.

>>3766934
The worst thing is that I can't work anymore. I used to identify myself in what I did so much, I had a passion for learning that was inexhaustible. I loved drawing and learning to draw, I had a hunger. I wanted to be good, and I believed I would be good, I believed in myself. Not only I hoped but I knew that I would become an artist.

Now I just see failure when I try, and I stop immediately. There's no reason to continue, I've stopped believing. I've forgotten everything I learned, so all I've built in the past is gone too. I just don't feel like doing anything. I don't care about my voice anymore. Between wasting time for a disappointing outcome and sleeping I choose sleep because it's failure-free. I've been reduced to this and it's horrible.

[Anonymous No.3766957]

>>3766933
If your behavior comes from your thoughts which come from your feelings which come from your environment, at which point does your own influence come in? Or are you saying it's other people that have to change the way you think in therapy, I can't see such help being accepted by someone that truly has an issue (bless all the folk that seriously only need to be told to stop to actually get better).

[Anonymous No.3766975]

>>3766440
What is this retardation

You cant improve your genetic looks, but you can improve your art by practicing and seeking resources.

[Anonymous No.3766976]

>>3766956
That's difficult to go through. I'm sorry if this is a painful question to answer, but what did you find fun to do before? Like, what did you find fun before drawing, and what did you find fun about drawing early on?

I hope sleeping provides some comfort, at least. I used to hate it cause I'd just dream about feeling lonely and unwanted every night, lol.

[Anonymous No.3766981]

>>3766526
>hypothetical person

now now OP told you to not shift the blame to other people

[Anonymous No.3767022]

>>3766976
It's not painful to answer, why.
I've drawn since I was a teen but it was not too often, mostly semi abstract stuff and weird doodles and a few weird paintings that I gifted to friends. I was very free about it. I discovered comics in my 20s and didn't properly learn technique seriously until I was 24-25 but I wanted it to be a career really badly, more than I wanted with music. I had a huge passion for music since 13-14 (I was a musician in my teens, played in a rock band, practiced a lot, composed classical music in MIDI etc.) and listened to music literally all the time. I still have a huge culture in music from every possible genre but I don't listen to anything anymore except classical very occasionally when I feel like it.
I was really social and always hanged out with friends from childhood, my band and university. Always had a girlfriend since I was 16, I've rarely been single for long. I never studied much and did terrible in school, always skipped to smoke with friends and failed one year of high school but I did much better in university when I studied languages, cause I was actually interested in that stuff and I was more square in general at that age (still got drunk and smoked every week tho).
I wasted way too much time fucking around with friends desu.

Then at some point in my 20s my brain started failing and I slowly stopped functioning. I don't fucking know why. I lost all my confidence. I quit university when I was close to graduating because I had insane anxiety when studying for exams. I started fighting with friends and eventually ghosted everyone. I haven't seen anyone in 6 years at least. Same with girls. I just got darker and darker and now I'm this fucking husk of a person that only sleeps.

[Anonymous No.3767031]

>>3767022
You posted practically a description of clinical depression. Went through a spell of it, too. It's hard to pull yourself out of it, and most therapists will just put you on happy pills and never deal with WHY you're depressed.

I did it by realizing that I had no reward in life. Broke up with gf, no money, job sucked, life fell apart. I just worked, ate, slept. Breaking point was realizing one Sunday night that I'd slept all weekend. I didn't touch art for like 6 months.

Dug in, and started reading up on depression. realized the lack of reward. So I started a couple of columns of goals, from easy, to medium, to large.

Started working on the small ones - clean up apartment, get shit organized, stuff like that. Medium was start doing art again. Big was personal stuff I didn't want to deal with (mostly family related.)
Started doing at least ONE small one a day, and a medium one every week, and the big ones once a month.
About a year later, I had my shit together, was working out again, met a girl and started dating seriously, started doing art again and was taking professional commissions on the side.
The whole time, i worked on ME. Art can wait. I fixed ME. So when I did start up again, I felt better about myself from rewards from getting shit done.
Art, I started doing one drawing a day, even if it was simple. I just got back in the habit. I put a sketchbook next to my phone at work, and drew while on the phone.
There, I saved you 20k in therapy. Start taking baby steps towards goals. WRITE THAT SHIT DOWN. I hung my list on my fridge. Pretty soon, it'll be bigger steps, and then it'll be running. After a while, you run out of shit to put on the list - and you should be feeling better.

[Anonymous No.3767044]

>>3767031
I have tried sorting myself out with the help of therapists for so many years. I was capable of doing things like cleaning my room. Sure, I'll do that. I have a cat and I take good care of her. I have a sketchbook near my bed and I occasionally try drawing something. There are days where I just have to shave and dress up and go outside to do things and it's not too hard to do that. But after I do this I'm left exhausted. It never lasts, there is no progress. I always end up in bed doing creepy shit like surfing Amazon for exit bag stuff. I can't get a job because I have no qualifications and there's no way I'd be able to hold it down.
There are nights where I just can't sleep so I randomly end up with a fucked up sleep schedule where I pass out after lunch and wake up at midnight. I have no control over anything.

[Anonymous No.3767047]

>>3766957
Honestly, even if you can argue that free will doesn't exist, there's a subjective experience of consciousness and free will and denying that or its usefulness as a means improve your life is silly. Why spend so much time convincing yourself that you can't make anything better? Who does that benefit?

[Anonymous No.3767054]

>>3766440
That's a total strawman, OP. You're literally just telling people what to do and expecting them to listen you. This isn't gonna convince anyone.

[Anonymous No.3767065]

>>3767022
That's rough.

in my case, I dunno. I had one friend at a time as a young kid, but was pretty much isolated from 13-22. No friends, no siblings, no pets. My parents don't have any friends either, so they didn't really know how to help.

I had some real life friends when I was studying away from home in 2017, but without the money to keep living in the SF Bay Area, I had to leave.

I'm 23 now. I feel like a laboratory experiment of a person, still. I'm a lonely shut-in and it's hard to think I'll ever be anything but that. I just want to keep going for my mom and my bf, because they're suffering too, and I feel like I can't give up on them, you know?. I'm hoping that studying psychology might give me some way of finding more things to enjoy in life.

[Anonymous No.3767084]

>>3766911
im a psycology student and as far as i understand (havent graduated yet so not fully) depression is a chemical inballance in the brain which leads to decreased intrest and lower serotonin levels. depression then leads to a depressing life/ life style and it becomes a self prepetuating circle. medicine alone cant fix it caus the lyfe style remains despite it. therapy alone cant fix it caus of the chemical inballance.
therapy, medicine, willpower and maybe some help from family together is the best way to get out of it.
as far as i understand...

[Anonymous No.3767132]

Maybe have been a shit post on OP's part but the discussion itt has brought so clarity to my own thoughts and issues.

I have been wondering for years why I have lost interest in nearly everything I used to enjoy, at some point I lost direction and have been wandering for years.

Life just slowly lost it's point. While I don't have any serious suicidal ideation, I can't really call what I am doing living, just existing.

I need to find something to work towards. Thanks OP, you're still an asshole.

[Anonymous No.3767163]

>>3766440
this tbphwyf

[Anonymous No.3767688]

>>3766776
thanks man!

[Anonymous No.3767691]

>>3766870
If you are genuinely depressed you should not be on the internet looking for help or trying to make sympathy threads or trying to pass the blame, you should be looking for professional help. that should be obvious.

[Anonymous No.3767698]

>>3767054
This post was meant to put a mirror in front of artists who blame everyone for their problems while they themselves are unwilling to listen or work in order by drawing parallels to involuntary celibates.

If you have an idea of how to actually help people in that situation, I'm sure nobody will stop you from voicing it out.

[Anonymous No.3767703]

>>3767084
amen

[Anonymous No.3767704]

>>3767691
I never opened a thread, but sorry if sometimes I waste a couple posts' worth of space to vent on an anonymous Thailandese woodcarving forum

[Anonymous No.3767708]

>>3767132
I gotchu, pleya! and fuck you too! Glad to help.

-love, op
p.s. not shitpost, found the parallels interesting.

[Anonymous No.3768295]

Drawabox guy actually has a really good article about "talent":

https://drawabox.com/article/talent

I am not a god at art yet, but when I was good at fighting games people frequently attributed skill to talent and as soon as they weren't able to win by mashing they would whine that they didn't have the "talent" to compete or they would say, "it just isn't my thing".

I think it's so stupid. You shouldn't give up just because things are hard.

[Anonymous No.3768315]

>>3768295
>You shouldn't give up just because things are hard

You can never improve if things aren't hard. It's how the n*gro didn't evolve in the same way the European did for example. Europeans excelled past the n*gro, mainly because if they weren't smart they would die in the very cold temperatures and starve due to the difficulties in finding food during the winter, among other things. The n*gro you understand didn't have this problem with the abundance of docile animals, good steady climate, and variety of arable land. There was no reason to evolve to the same standard as the European, simply because it was not needed and that's basically how nature works. Everything was provided for them to such an extent that they never even invented the wheel (I know it's astonishing, but it's a fact). They were happy to live, graze, and die like the rest of the animals there.
Anyway, the part I quoted, it's one of my big problems with the equality meme. You literally choose where the bar is because you're pretending that an objective reality is really a subjective concept. When that happens you set the bar so low that it's attainable for everyone, but with the bar so low you literally can't improve. When you start doing that you start creeping dangerously into Harrison Bergeron which is an inevitability once "equality" becomes law.
You have the choice between being the European or being the n*gro. The choice should never be a difficult one.

[Anonymous No.3768324]

>>3768315
>That libtard propaganda in the pic
>Baby first racial evolutionary theory
Shut the fuck up and draw you retarted "rad"-lib

[Anonymous No.3768344]

>>3768315
You're retarded, man. Europeans "excelled past the n*gro" because they were able to domesticate animals like Cows and Sheep and shit, which meant they didn't need to spent 90% of their day hunting so they could do other shit, learn, create culture etc

On the other hand, people in Africa can't domesticate Zebras and FUCKING TIGERS. They didn't not excel because they were lazy and didn't need to be smart to survive, in fact, they had to work harder because they had to hunt all day to get food.

Also what the fuck does this have to do with drawing? Or literally anything? Get the fuck out of here, retard.

[Anonymous No.3768363]

>>3768295
>Be me as a kid
>Played Tekken 3 all day as King
>Autistically practiced all the wrassling combos
>Still lost to my older brother mashing XOXOXO as Eddie every fucking time
>He rubbed it in my face with pure glee and I raged like mad
>He invited his friends and instructed them to button mash as Eddie so they could share my anger collectively
>Sometimes they told me that maybe I should switch characters but I wanted to be King

[Anonymous No.3768369]

>>3768363
I am more of a Street Fighter V kinda guy, but from what I understand about Tekken, you have to understand and master a very complex movement system of canceling dashes with crouches to be able to actively "control space" and win against people who are mashing. It's sort of like learning fundamentals.

[Anonymous No.3768375]

>>3768369
Yes, that's essentially it. You can't play Tekken like a 2D game, just learning combos in the list won't do.
If you master the movement and actually learn to read you can fuck things up badly. Now the thing is that Eddie in Tekken 3 was actually hard to beat until you were intermediate, but if if you can launcher Eddie it's over, most retards don't know how to deal with being juggled to a wall and then pummeled into dust.

[Anonymous No.3768386]

>>3768344
>how does getting more free time and not having to hunt for your food all day long relate to drawing
really nigga?

[Anonymous No.3768420]

>>3766440
I kinda agree with the notion that people who are more successful give shit advice.

Sometimes is because they're legitimately shitty people, but more often than not is because it's impossible to tell multiple people how to improve at art.

Everyone's aiming for (sometimes) completely different goals and everyone's got different problems. The only way for someone to genuinely help you become better is for them to look at your work AND know what entails being good in that art style.

I can't tell someone who does oil landscapes how to improve, and likewise they can't tell me how to improve my cartoons.

[Anonymous No.3768901]

>>3766956
Your issue is your fucking attitude, not your depression.

[Anonymous No.3768936]

>>3766975
This. I’m not an Incel and don’t like falling into their mindset but there is some truth to be found in a handful of their beliefs. What makes them unpleasant though is almost always their personality, but it’s a chicken or the egg sort of thing. With art the only truth to this line of thinking is that it becomes more difficult as you get older, but not impossible to become good

[Anonymous No.3769100]

>>3766870
The way to treat depression is to stop being depressed, not to feed into it.

[Anonymous No.3769101]

>>3768901
>>3769100
Sure I'll just "snap out of it". How did I not think about it before!

[Anonymous No.3769420]

>>3768420
you missed the whole point
The notion wasn't that successful people give shitty advice, it's that unsuccessful people tend to dismiss simple advice (like fundamentals) and advice that's hard to do ( like practice) and shift the blame onto better artists giving shitty advice and focus on things that don't matter as much like style.

You got the EXACT opposite message from what I wrote

[Anonymous No.3769425]

>>3766457
>Being good with art and bitches suck.
Show me your art anon

[Anonymous No.3769429]

>>3766975
>>3768936
> can't improve genetics looks
Genetics gives you tools for you to work with, not a set score. If you can't grasp that concept there's no helping you. Rot with that body you chose to never build up.
> more difficult as you get older
where did you get that? where did you pull that from? Sure, if you are 70 with Parkinson picking up drawing ain't gonna be good, but seeing you are here the worst you could be at is your 50s

[Anonymous No.3769441]

>>3769425
I'd rather have you call me a liar than have my work linked to this thread.

[Anonymous No.3769541]

>>3769441
People with tens of thousands of followers have posted their stuff here and you refuse to because you're just paranoid, waste of a thread desu

[Anonymous No.3769569]

>>3769420
Anon is still right. Individualized advice is hard to give from that position. General advice also means very little. Eat your Wheaties.

[Anonymous No.3769862]

>Been drawing for 5 years, grinding Loomis and shit
>Think I'm finally good enough to ask for feedback from good artists
>Send an email to [artist I love that is not too famous] and politely ask if he would take a quick look at my gallery and give an opinion
>"Thank you for the compliments kind Anon! I've looked at your art and I recommend you read the book Figure Drawing For What It's Worth by Andrew Loomis! Cheers"

[Anonymous No.3769864]

>>3769862
>grinding
There's your problem. It's like hearing some gold player in LoL say they've been grinding for like 3 years and they're stuck in that league. You can't expect to improve if you're on autopilot the whole time.

[Anonymous No.3769865]

>>3769864
I actually studied hard and applied the stuff to original work.

[Anonymous No.3769886]

>>3769864
Also thanks for reminding me that I failed to become anything but bottom tier trash at both league and DotA in 6 years of playing
I'm a fucking failure, I can't do anything right

[Anonymous No.3770151]

>>3769862
post sample

[Anonymous No.3770158]

>>3769865
Show your work

[Anonymous No.3770169]

>>3770158
>>3770151
I already posted my stuff in other threads after ranting. It's always the same stuff because I quit drawing.
Why do you even want to see it? It's shit, that's all you need to know.

I'm sorry about shitting up threads with my rants, I'll quit posting here and probably kms soon

[Anonymous No.3770857]

>>3769541
I posted my work and social media in other threads on /ic/ .
I'm not posting it here.
I AM paranoid about posting it in this specific thread. I don't want my work to be associated with it.

[Anonymous No.3773380]

>>3766870
If you cant find the motivation, seek professional help instead of complaining on the art critique board. No one can help you here.

[Anonymous No.3773841]

> there's no such thing as a femcel
> /ic/ exists

[Anonymous No.3775895]

>>3766440
Fucking redditors. Your mental diarrhea is so disgusting to look at, did this actually look good in your head?