the core issue of /ic/

[Anonymous No.3536117]

I've been drawing for 8 years and am on a pretty good level. Here's the issue I see everywhere here:

People are in love with the idea of being an artist, and not drawing in itself. They're in love with having really cool work, lots of retweets and fans, and making a lot of money from it if they make it. But they're not in love with the idea of actually drawing. You have to enjoy the process of actually drawing or you're not gonna make it. No great artist got good with hopes of being a professional artist - they got good by drawing for fun. Change your mentality and enjoy the process - or you absolutely are NGMI.

[Anonymous No.3536121]

>>3536117
I have made it and at the first stages I hated drawing and painting so your argument is invalid.

Art is something personal.
You aren't going to get anywhere if you don't study the fundies and you will always hate your begginer art

The fun starts when you start liking it yeah, but everyone is different

[Anonymous No.3536125]

ERRRRRRRRRRRR
WRONG

I love drawing, I just hate seeing my drawings, am chronically depressed and generally dread having to be friendly with retards on the internet in order to not die if I ever do start relying on art for income.

Thank you for playing.

[Anonymous No.3536131]

>>3536117
>I've been drawing for 8 years and am on a pretty good level
Post your art

[Anonymous No.3536146]

fun starts when you realize the real limit is imagination and not technical skill. actually have more fun writing low level software code than doing copy exercises.

[Anonymous No.3536152]

>>3536131
gonna have to agree with this. you cant speak out as an authority without any substantial reason as to why you should be thought of as such

[Anonymous No.3536162]

>>3536117
I've been seeing posts like these more and more often ever since I started talking about the same thing. It's cool to see! Sorry, narcissistic blog post.

Yeah like the people who "make it" artistically are usually people who either can't do anything else or are happy risking everything including safety and security and shelter in the pursuit of creating stuff

Also there are just people who have gilded security nets.

I run a low-rent housing thing for artists. It's really interesting to see the people who do and don't succeed

[Anonymous No.3536166]

>>3536117
nah, i think the people like that don't even care about being artists, i think they just want to do something that isn't lame and they think drawing is achievable, like something they can learn at home etc.

i don't think it's a big issue with /ic/, more what gives /ic/ it's flavor. a community made out of the people who you see drop out in the second week of art school.

[Anonymous No.3536197]

>>3536121
>>3536125
>>3536162
Thank you.

For a second I thought people would just blindly agree because it sounds right. I thought I was the only one noticing these posts and they were annoying the fuck out of me. Glad I'm not the only one calling out this parroted narcissistic-ally motivated shitpile. It's actually relieving to see people disagreeing. Love you guys.

[Anonymous No.3536204]

>>3536117
>"guy i know why you're NGMI"
>""It's because [something else besides not doing the work]!"

kek

[Anonymous No.3536216]

>>3536197
Although I think OP is right when he says you should love the process not the end result, and yeah, it's like that.

Also, I believe you should be humble with your own work or you will be damaging your potential.

[Anonymous No.3536220]

>>3536117
Nobody enjoy drawing and grinding when they are shit.
NGMI if you dont know this

[Anonymous No.3536225]

>>3536220
if you don't enjoy it when you're shit you'll never enjoy it.

and in fact when you're shit you learn really fast, so it's actually more rewarding than later when the variance between pictures is greater than the possible gains.

[Anonymous No.3536237]

>>3536225
>if you don't enjoy it when you're shit you'll never enjoy it.
actual horseshit

[Anonymous No.3536238]

>>3536216
No of course loving the process is a big part of it. I'm more addressing the point he and many others who probably don't know what they're talking about when it comes to loving it make. That you have to enjoy it from the beginning. My only gripe is that of course people who are adults and are beginning to draw don't enjoy making toddler-tier drawings. Once you gain experience and practice you learn to love the process.

I've been through this exact situation throughout this year when I started. There are too many factors that come into play before you can even claim someone doesn't love it (Given that we're not talking about people who don't enjoy art at all and are in it for the money) because they weren't drawing as a baby or that you're never gonna survive if you don't enjoy pumping out shit-tier drawings.
It's annoying as hell to see these idiots make these claims over and over when I know several people including myself who happen to be living proof of the opposite. What this >>3536220 anon said is perfect.

Retards are constantly parroting that if you don't enjoy it you never will when they forget that the people asking these questions are looking to grind art to get good, not doodle. Not enjoying drawing at all is another story, but to sit here an act like anyone would want to sit for hours and study when they could be playing video games and enjoy it.
This is what everyone who says this shit forgets.

Also >>3536117 if your point wasn't what I made it out to be, my apologies. I don't disagree with the basis of your argument but I do disagree with the 'they got good but doing it for fun', which is a true statement by itself, but when you're leaving out that these people are looking to get better in the most efficient way possible. The artists you're talking about have had years to practice passively.

Some don't have that time or would rather speed the process up if they can.
>>3536225
Speak of the retard, here's one now.

[Anonymous No.3536243]

>>3536238
Yeah, at the end. You won't be doing something you don't actually enjoy.

You can either love it from the start
Or have stockholm syndrome and learn to love it

Both are valid
I'm a huge masochist and I enjoy art because of this.

[Anonymous No.3536249]

>>3536237
really? well that's my experience, but then i did always enjoy it even though it has been frustrating. but it's still as frustrating now as ever. do people really go from being not satisfied with shit work to satisfied with work that still isn't as good as it could be? seems odd.

[Anonymous No.3536250]

>>3536225
if you're happy with shitty mediocre art why improve.

[Anonymous No.3536254]

>>3536250
well if you really enjoy playing chess that doesn't mean you only play badly right, it means you want to learn all the advanced chess stuff and play on the highest level

[Anonymous No.3536255]

>>3536238
Whoops. I meant to clarify that I wasn't referring to OP himself when saying
>I'm more addressing the point he and many others who probably don't know what they're talking about when it comes to loving it make. That you have to enjoy it from the beginning.

that I was talking about people who use the same talking points as OP. OP didn't say you have to enjoy it from the beginning.

Also
*Not enjoying drawing at all is another story, but to sit here an act like anyone would want to sit for hours and study when they could be playing video games and enjoy it is retarded.

>>3536243
Yeah I wish more people realized it's possible.

[Anonymous No.3536263]

>>3536254
no it doesn't mean that. is this bait.

[Anonymous No.3536269]

>>3536263
so what makes people want to get better at chess?

[Anonymous No.3536273]

>>3536269
Not him but I enjoy chess a lot and I'm not too good. Enjoying it is not all that it requires. You need motivation which stems from competition.

[Anonymous No.3536277]

>>3536269
people only get better because they want to be better. not only because they enjoy it. enjoyment is unrelated.
enjoying it just means you naturally spend more time with it, you don't necessarily improve or learn anything more by doing so.

no surprise that if you're a person who likes improving at things your good at many things.
I think I've heard it be called serial mastery or something similar.

[Anonymous No.3536290]

>>3536273
competition is part of enjoying chess, because it's a game. if you love chess as a whole then you have to love playing chess.

you don't need to want to be better at chess though. it's enough to want to fully appreciate the game.

like um, if you're enjoying walking down a forest path you don't like turn around and walk over the same spot again and again because you enjoyed it so much, you keep walking to see what's deeper.

[Anonymous No.3536293]

>>3536290
But if your forest turns out to be a small patch of an empty field you have no choice. The people I face are much lower than me and there's no point in continuing down am empty field. No enjoyment because there's nothing to look at. It's still fun, I just have no reason to strive higher since I'm contempt with where I am.

If my friends grow and become better there will be a reason to attempt to become better. Otherwise I see no point.

[Anonymous No.3536297]

>>3536117
I got pretty good art (No, not gonna post). What I don't like is the idea of having to focus on social networking and keeping a public image. Always trying to stay relevant to get views.

Maybe some day I'll do a comic. It takes more than just drawing skills though.

[Anonymous No.3536321]

>>3536293
no that doesn't quite fit the analogy
the forest is chess, so is deep no matter what.
poor competition would be just another hurdle..which i guess would be like..vines blocking the path which you'd need to machete through..or something

if you loved chess a ton, then you'd just find better competition. so..what you enjoy is actually like..having a picnic at the edge of the forest, you don't have any motivation to go deeper, because you don't care what's in there.

so in the end, you just don't like chess enough to pursue it. you're like 'meh why cut my way into the forest when i can have a picnic right here' whereas the forest lover says 'i've already been here, let's get chopping and see what's past those vines'

[Anonymous No.3536328]

>>3536117
So as long as I love drawing, I can also love all the other parts too?

[Anonymous No.3536333]

>>3536321
It's not as simple as finding better competition. The fact that I even have friends to play with where I'm located it's rare enough. I love chess a ton, that doesn't mean I'll be able to defy all odds and I kinda hate that type of thinking where because it's easily available for you to do, that everyone should be able to.

I love chess. It's the reason I'm not pursuing it further. As I said, it would take away the fun I currently have because I'd run circles around friends. Why would that be fun?

[Anonymous No.3536335]

>>3536321
What's ic's deal with telling people what they do and don't like based on factors the accuser deems fit? It's so common to hear and it's annoying as shit.

[Anonymous No.3536346]

>>3536162
So who are those that do or don’t succeed?

[Anonymous No.3536348]

>>3536333
well i don't want you to feel personally attacked or anything, i was just sort of spinning out an analogy for fun, if you feel like you love chess but you can't pursue it because you'd have no-one to play with i can't that's wrong or anything.

[Anonymous No.3536349]

>>3536225
You don't know.
I'm going to talk of my own experience here
>Just Drawing for 10 years in a candide way, enjoying the process and the hobby
>Was bad and decided to take drawing seriously so started to study fundies and learn, grind. 2 years of being annoyed of my current level, of my slow progresses and of my objectively bad drawing skills
>now enjoying the craft again now that I've whole new knowledges so I feel more free and know what to do in my works and how to put thoughts to paper

This is how it's happening for me, there's obviously a plateau where you will have to face the fact that you're terrible and unless you accept it you won't be able to progress fast.
If you're not a masochist you can't enjoy having difficulties grasping new concepts, being shit at linework, having to grind, not being able to convey what you want on the canvas. Most things beginners have to deal with. The further you progress the more enjoyable it is since knowledges and skills give you freedom

[Anonymous No.3536352]

>>3536346
People who work hard. Everybody who says that kind of thing thinks they're special. They're not.

[Anonymous No.3536354]

>>3536348
Yeah, sorry. I just hear this type of stuff a lot on ic so I was getting a bit heated. It's not your fault you can't read minds. You could only go off of what I gave you so you're fine. Cheers man.

[Anonymous No.3536357]

>>3536349
This
>want to draw cute girl
>shit draftmanship and draw trash
>angry, annoyed, frustrated
It's not rocket science.

[Anonymous No.3536385]

if you don't enjoy the process itself how does it play out in your naive reality that the thing you hate doing suddenly becomes a super awesome fun activity? it's like, cleaning toilets doesn't suddenly give you pleasure just because you're being paid to do it. and i'm sure knowing you are the best toilet cleaner in the world wouldn't change a damn thing about how you enjoy it.

[Anonymous No.3536387]

>>3536385
Bad analogy. Read the thread answers are there

[Anonymous No.3536388]

>>3536385
But everyone is different. There has to be someone if not many that have made it without the same mindset.

[Anonymous No.3536390]

>>3536385
People don't hate drawing, they hate being shit at drawing, nuance

[Anonymous No.3536398]

>>3536117
Post your art which is of a "pretty good level"

[Anonymous No.3536402]

>>3536398

[Anonymous No.3536405]

>>3536398

[Anonymous No.3536409]

>>3536117
In so many words

[Anonymous No.3536448]

>>3536390
if you're shit at drawing that you hate it you are not in a position to know whether you will like it when you're better. improvement is just the progression of the same shit you're doing now. there's no distinct line you cross when you will suddenly not be bad.

[Anonymous No.3536458]

>>3536402
this is not good

[Anonymous No.3536465]

>>3536402
>>3536405
These don't even look like they were drawn by the same person.

[Anonymous No.3536467]

>>3536465
That's the point because they're not his work.

[Anonymous No.3536469]

>>3536458
I was going to disagree with you...
...and then I clicked the thumbnail.

[Anonymous No.3536470]

>>3536467
That's what I was getting at

[Anonymous No.3536488]

>>3536409
F

[Anonymous No.3536519]

>>3536448
this, honestly. Sure people hate being shit at drawing, but that same frustration is going to make you hate your art no matter how good you get.

knowing that, the only way to become a person who likes to draw is by throwing out the "I'll be happy once I get good" mentality.

[Anonymous No.3536530]

>>3536402
Yes, this is not a "pretty good level", not good at all

[Anonymous No.3536548]

>>3536117
The core issue of /ic/ is that a lot of people have very little specific technical information to contribute and are too self conscious to post their own art, so they start threads with nebulous topics like this one that devolve into circular arguments, memes, and trolling.

[Anonymous No.3536601]

I rarely see people talk about shuiten and peters. I wonder why since they are so good.

[Anonymous No.3536709]

>>3536352
so eh, ppl who work hard will or will not succed? those who say they work hard think they are special or those who don't work hard say that they are special

word your respond better pls

[Anonymous No.3536714]

>>3536117
This place is more like the arts and crafts room of a mental ward than an art forum.

[Anonymous No.3536715]

>>3536385
ppl who enjoy cleaning toilets enjoy cleaning them because they like to see rows of clean toilets, those who enjoy only the process and not the end result can clean 8 hours a day the same toilet

your analogy is bad. that, or you could say only those which paint by numbers truly enjoy drawing, and the true artists are those which enjoy working hard to produce something of value

nobody likes to wipes the shit from babies asses, but that doesn't mean nobody likes to rise kids

[Anonymous No.3536725]

Inking/lineart (mostly digitally) and coloring (i still probably have heaps of coloring books from when I was a kid somewhere) feels good, but drawing from blank itself doesn't...

[Anonymous No.3536726]

>>3536714

[Anonymous No.3536798]

I like drawing but I don't like failing. and since I know everything I do at this stage will be failure, its hard to be motivated to repeat failure.

[Anonymous No.3537247]

>>3536709
Working hard gets you to the goal. People who say 'if you weren't enjoying it since the beginning it's not meant for you' are not as special as they want to think they are.

[Anonymous No.3537259]

>>3536117
/ic/ doesn't draw because they are too busy grinding fundies until they are allowed to actually draw. And /ic/ simply doesn't like the process of grinding fundies.

[Anonymous No.3537279]

>>3536117
Every board is like this. /v/ hates videogames and hates playing them and everyone is shit at them except for themself. Same with /a/ and /g/ and /p/

[Anonymous No.3537546]

>>3537259
That is a huge part of the problem. You should be drawing while grinding fundies.

This is a very good podcast from Chris Oatley on art and fear. Its a talk between animation professionals, so I think a lot of anons will enjoy it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eMb3uxeunE

[Anonymous No.3537690]

>>3536117
i think you need both enjoyment and discipline balanced together.
lean too much on enjoyment and your purpose will start to shift to 'just having fun'. this is dangerous because once the fun stops (from failing or just boredom), you're doomed.
having too much discipline on the other hand can be good but may suck the fun out of it and burn you out which might make you give up, because art is a subject in which fun and passion is required to be efficient and succeed at.
so in the end, i think just enjoying the process of drawing is good enough - you also need discipline but not just that. you need a strong well defined purpose. i see too many people who have too much a vague goal like 'i need to git gud' or 'i want to be an artist'. these are not strong enough goals to keep you focused on your journey, and trust me, you will lose the point of your journey because it is not well defined down to the last foundation.

[Anonymous No.3537700]

the core issue of ic is that good artists here are not appreciated. rather they are picked on and isolated by a jealous and ignorant mob. ic needs to cherish talented and experienced artists. ic needs to respect talent and experience. originality is part of the equation.

[Anonymous No.3537770]

>>3537700
Good artists have no reason to be here. This is 4chan. This is not a healthy place, it's a forum where extreme examples of autism and other mental disorders and personality disorders gather, and attempt to participate in ordinary, everyday things, but it always devolves down into shitposting, trolls, bigots talking about jews, and mentally fragile people posting despair threads that in any other context would have the authorities called on for a wellness check.
This forum is mostly neckbeards and autists who are too cheap to pay for porn, so they think they can all grind their way to being artists. They seek validation, money, or fapping material, not artistic talent. They disregard actual art, and the techniques, and the method of learning, for made up disciplines of doing the same wrong things over and over, thinking that will get them somewhere. They insist on a narrow, childish subject matter - if it's not porn, child porn, anime, or some Japanese digital artist, it's "shit".
This isn't about art here, it's about being childish, antisocial, arrogant, and ignorant. It's a means to an end - attention, money, or fapping. Period.
I'm an artist. I've thought many times of breaking my personal rule of never posting anything personal on this site, and starting technique threads, to share what I know, but why bother? Nobody will listen, nobody will care, it will be attacked, insulted, and rejected, unless I cater to a group of people who only want free porn or some mythical cheat that will make them artists overnight.
Here's the reality - in a real art school, maybe 5% will "make it", and work as artists in a career. Most art schools are babysitting for rich kids. The more serious schools have a higher percentage rate, like The Art Center, or Pratt, but most simply don't churn out artists. Very few people have what it takes to be an artist, anyway, outside of here. Most if not all of you will never be artists. Just a truth none of you want to face.

[Anonymous No.3537781]

>>3537770
t. ngmi

[Anonymous No.3538245]

>>3537770
Being 4chan is literally why I'm here. All the points you made could easily be applied to tumblr, only in tumblr, your identity and opinions matter more than your art.

[Anonymous No.3538298]

>>3537770
Make those threads fagget, some will appreciate and that should outweigh the shitposting and bad feedback. Don't drown on a glass of water... Well here is more like the salty sea... Just learn how to swim idk

[Anonymous No.3538465]

>>3537770
If you think /ic/ is so irredeemably awful then why spend your time here?

[Anonymous No.3538466]

>>3537770
Post your work

[Anonymous No.3538913]

>>3538465
Entertainment. I love watching the more nasty autists flop around trying to "make it". I was trying to help for a while, but don't bother anymore. I'm waiting for a phone call right now, so fuck it, i'll kill 10 minutes on 4chan. I've been sending some of the more hilarious "theories" to artist friends, they think it's hilarious, too.
That, and the classic art image threads, great for adding to my morgue file.

[Anonymous No.3538923]

>>3538913
cringe

[Anonymous No.3539006]

>>3536250
If youre happy with it you dont nessesarly have to improve, but most artists dont feel happy about their art if they think its mediocre.

[Anonymous No.3540236]

>>3537770
>They want free porn
And taking initiative to learn how to make that is a bad thing how? I like how you manage to make it out to be a bad thing by phrasing it as if that goal is somehow not as valid as any other.

Why are you so worked up over other people's goals? If someone is fueled purely by money just let them fail. I really don't understand. No one cares what percentage of art school students 'make it' because most of us aren't art school students. It's irrelevant to the goals of most here.
I never see as many talking about making it in the industry as others seem to claim. I saw it a few times and the rest is just shitposting and talking about how they want to be porn artists because it's a much more attainable goal.

If your sole purpose is to come here and brag about how you're an 'artist' while implying none of us will 'make it' because rich kids who decided they want to go to art school without any ambition didn't get the job they wanted with minimal effort then you're just an insufferable cringy cunt who is attempting to appear superior to anonymous people who, despite it being a handful, may be even working harder than you ever will with goals you consider to be not fit. That or either they're doing it as a hobby and you check the board and come across one or two posts talking about how an anon might want to get into the industry and you apply that to everyone to fuel your useless rant.

It's not that I disagree with your fundamental argument, it's just that your approach is cringy and comes off as 'holier than thou'. Just stop, you narcissistic dunning kruger.

[Rainbow Dash is my God !LightPenis No.3540836]

>>3538913
fucking cringe holy shit

[Anonymous No.3540841]

>>3538913
Wow anon, you're so hardcore.
I bet you were twirling you mustache while writing that.

[Anonymous No.3544147]

>>3536117
THIS THREAD HASN'T BEEN BUMPED FOR 2 DAYS AND IS STILL UP WHY IS THE ONLY BOARD I CARE ABOUT SO SHIT WHILE SO SLOW AT THE SAME TIME