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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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3468224 No.3468224 [Reply] [Original]

Leaving this here to give naive anons some perspective.

>> No.3468226
File: 103 KB, 640x675, https---outline-prod.imgix.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3468226

>>3468224

>> No.3468228

>>3468224
I'm not interested in doing a patreon, but an extra $500 per month on top of my salary at work would be pretty nice desu

>> No.3468245

>>3468224
>>3468226
There are literally thousands upon thousands of random no name artists with no following whatsoever who have started a patreon. Obviously those numbers are skewed towards the low end because of that. The fact that despite that there is such a sizeable number of people making 500-3000$ a month is actually very encouraging.

>> No.3468248

>>3468224
It's a tip jar, faggot. If you can make $1k per month in TIPS on top of your other income sources then you're already doing better than most Americans.

>> No.3468251

>>3468228
>>3468248
What makes you think you will have enough time, energy and skill to have a normal job and also create paintings that people are willing to pledge for consistently?

>> No.3468254

>>3468251
Most artists on patreon don't create painting specifically for patreon. They just offer simple, easy to produce rewards. Like a webcomic artist will post some sketches for his patrons and early access to the new pages. Or an illustrator will occasionally post his studies and process images or some simple tutorials, their brushes etc. You know, basically the kind of shit they used to do anyway.

>> No.3468264
File: 92 KB, 720x304, Screenshot_2018-06-12-12-19-49(1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3468264

>>3468254
What kind of fantasy are you guys living in? Low tier artists work their asses off to keep their patrons around. The only people who get patrons but work very little are people who dont need it anyways because they are very good and already get paid a lot as concept artists.

>> No.3468267

>>3468251
What makes you think patreon artist actually put in time and effort into their art?

>> No.3468276

>>3468245
>less than 4000 people within that range
>"sizeable number of people"
>meanwhile probably 100 times that many people have tried and failed

why do we always like to think we are the exception.

>> No.3468278

>>3468267
>Being delusional enough to think people will support artists who dont put in time and effort into their art.

Just because an artist who you think is shit is making a lot doesn't mean doing it easily.

>> No.3468279

>literal who arbitrarily interprets cherripicked part of some data to kill an innocent thread on slow board
Classic shitpost.

>> No.3468282

>>3468279
>innocent thread
Kek

>> No.3468284

>>3468224
Even if you only make a 100 bucks a month on your patreon that's 100 dollars you weren't making otherwise. Just because it doesn't completely replace your regular income doesn't mean it's worthless.

>> No.3468292

>percentage of the population that can draw even half-decent
>0.01%

If you worked hard enough to actually get good at drawing, you can work hard enough to make a decent amount off of patreon.

People see the most popular patreons and think they're all like that but 98% make less than minimum wage because they're utter garbage.

>> No.3468303

>>3468292
>He thinks only the good artists make money
TOPKEK don't you realize that a good 80% of people making money on patreon are porn peddlers.
It has nothing to do with the quality of one's art

>> No.3468327

>>3468224
That's pretty cool, I expected it to be much less, not even accounting for the ridiculous minimum wage burgers have.

>> No.3468336
File: 81 KB, 500x334, 1503528635168.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3468336

>>3468224
>citing an article written by an idiot who literally quit his job to become an instagram photographer and live off patreon money because he thought all 8k of his followers were real people who would pay money to see pictures of his dog. now he's homeless, lives in his car, and begs family and friends to support him through gofundme

>> No.3468339

>>3468336
Who is the guy you're referring to? That is a crazy story

>> No.3468340
File: 6 KB, 240x210, oposs.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3468340

>>3468336
Retard deserved that.

>> No.3468343

>>3468339
Nvm, I found the article:

https://theoutline.com/post/2571/no-one-makes-a-living-on-patreon?zd=1&zi=b2qsw5a5

>> No.3468344

>>3468226
You guys also miss the fuckin point that anyone can make a patreon, not just artists. Most of these failures are probably people who think they are going to be youtubers.
Quit making excuses for why you will never make it and get good.

>> No.3468346

>>3468339
The guy who wrote the article OP is referencing:
>Last January, I was broke. I lived in a car, and that month I had to choose between paying my cell phone bill or buying food. Two years before that I was a freelance photographer in Chicago, but walked away from that life to travel around the country. My travels had given me a collection of stories and photos I was proud of, and more than 9,000 people were following me on Instagram. I loved what I was doing, but I didn’t make a dime doing it. I’d hit bottom at the worst time, mid-winter, far away from my comfortable network of jobs and connections back in the city. I decided to take a shot at Patreon, a crowdfunding site that encourages artists to “regain creative freedom” by raising money directly from fans.

https://theoutline.com/post/2571/no-one-makes-a-living-on-patreon

>> No.3468348

>>3468346
>walked away from that life to travel around the country

You reap what you sow lmao

>> No.3468353

>>3468346
Thanks, yeah I read it. He, like many other of the 'creative' types unfortunately, sounds like a communist who thinks that he should be paid on the basis of his effort, and not on the basis of whether his efforts amounted to anything worthwhile. People will pay for something they want, and sometimes if the thing is really good, some people will pay for things even if they can get them for free.

>> No.3468355

>>3468348
now he's blaming patreon for his double digit IQ. I would be ashamed to post this story online, his parents must be so proud

>> No.3468371

Yeah, doing this for the money is pretty stupid. It's mostly about doing what you love and getting barely any money on the side for it instead of working at Starbucks for more.

>> No.3468380

>>3468371
So, you're saying, do things you hate for money, and do things you love for free, with the limited time and energy you have?

>> No.3468396

>>3468380
How did you get that from what I said?
>Patreon doesn't give you a lot of money in exchange for you being able to make money on the side doing what you love.

>> No.3468407

>>3468396
Ahh, I get you now. When you said "doing this for money" I read the "this" you wrote as referring to art, as in "doing art for money is stupid", but I now see the "this" you were referring to was Patreon. I was wrong my dude.

>> No.3468422

Why is it always all-or-nothing with you people? Making patreon your sole income is a bad idea no matter how much you're making.

Diversify you revenue streams!

>> No.3468546

>>3468224
>commissions
>twitch
>youtube

patreon is not the only possible source of income

>> No.3468572

>>3468224
Even if that were true it really does not matter, I would rather make minimum wage doing what I love than making 50k a year in a job I hate.
Painting what I want and nothing else IS freedom. If I only make 500 dollars a month doing that than I had better work harder and learn to be more frugal

>> No.3468595

>>3468224
Half the US minimum wage is double the minimum wage of where I live. So yeah, I don’t need to be a two-percenter.

>> No.3468605

>>3468224
https://www.patreon.com/BBCchan
Started my commissions career 3 years ago. Started Patreon 1 year ago.
If I can make it, anyone can. But I think decent art isn't enough. You also have to be social and approachable. Especially if you do commissions.

>> No.3468610

>>3468226
so there is a pretty decent amount of people making about a extra 50$ to 100$ a month. Thats actually good considering Patreon is like a passive buff in a video game.

>> No.3468614

>>3468605
how much time a day did you spend on social meadia before starting a patreon, BBCchan? And did you start by doing tons of requests before opening commisions?

>> No.3468619

>>3468614
I didn't spend any time at all except for posting my art there and replying to random messages from people asking for commissions or just saying hi.
I was doing some requests here and there (I still do free raffle streams), but nothing special. I got commission gigs soon after opening my tumblr and Hentai Foundry galleries.
But I already had experience with drawing smut art before that of course.

>> No.3468621
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3468621

>>3468264
>Artist Ayla Arthur spends between 20-25 hours updating a comic on Patreon. The artist only earns $200 a month.
whoah...... I can't imagine why that might be........?????? ?

>> No.3468622

>>3468614
>>3468619
That was a half assed response, sorry. I didn't spend a lot of time interacting on socials and networking, I spend a ton of time drawing and posting my art though.
I think this is the most important factor when it comes to building a name and a following. You have to have as big an output as possible. The more time your art is visible to people, the more chances you have to be noticed by people willing to support you financially.

>> No.3468635

>>3468276
because nobody ever makes it except for the people who try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, or as I like to call it, "you never know until you try"

>> No.3468640

>>3468621
ahhhhhhhhhahahaha wow

>> No.3468642

>>3468621
wow, she's a walking stereotype.

>> No.3468644

>>3468642
>she

>> No.3468682

>>3468622>>3468619
I kinda assumed the whole uploading everyday was part of the whole social media thing. And quick responses is also a part of it I guess. Thanks for the insight, it confIrms something I always hear about.

I also see your stuff show up often in the top spots on HF. That definitely helps. Do you know of the 80/20 rule? Where 80% of the all the money goes to 20% of the population. 80% of women go after 20% of the men, 80% of spoken words come from 20% of the language, etc. I think the same thing applies to patreon, commisions, and genrally success.

The hardest part of starting a career is the beginning, after the initial push, everything should snowball. I know that everybody that makes it works hard. But not every hard worker will make it. You need confidence to win but failure kills confidence but you cant learn without failure and practice is repeated failure.

How did you break this catch 22?

>> No.3468696

"Don't try because you won't succeed"

What a shitty thing to perpetuate OP.

Really lacking in character

>> No.3469261

>>3468696
More like "if you try, be aware of the odds and account for that". If you're plan is to try without actually bothering to do any research, you're going to fail anyways.

>> No.3469263

>>3468224
its a good second income nigga plus you can also supplement it by doing commissions and selling drugs

>> No.3469275

>>3468276
There are tons of people on patreon who don't do anything and just beg for donations and just made an account because it's free
If you cut everyone making less than 20 bucks a month from the statistics it would be more than 2% plus patreon is just one source of income, you can actually work for buisnesses instead of the public if you have a nice portfolio for starters

>> No.3469734

>>3468224
don't matter for me, its extra money if i want to waste them on games or some shit. i'm a physics with plasma specialization grad student anyways.

>> No.3469776

A lot of people think that the most successfull artist income are their fans giving their money without compensation.
Those who afford more $$$ is because they do some kind of service to those who pledge to them.

>> No.3469786

That percentage is from people starting Patreons with absolutely no fanbase, worthwhile body of work, worthwhile bonus content for patrons, more often than not really lacking skills too.....these are the people clogging the first five bars of >>3468226


if there were some way to see how many people make good money through patreon after having gained a certain skill level and built a certain fanbase, it would be a higher percent. not sky high, but certainly higher, and as for the ones not hitting minwage but still making a several hundo a month, that's fine for people not looking to subsist off only this (anyone good enough to get Patreon donations will also be taking commissions and selling prints)

tl;dr good to have a damper on your expectations but it's not like you have only a one-in-fifty shot, this data is skewed by lazy or unrealistic people.

>> No.3469864

>>3468224
>site where everyone and their dog made an account to earn some extra change
>"wow, all these guys are literally earning less than the minimum wage??"

>> No.3469865

>>3468682
I am pretty optimistic by nature. I never really let bad things bum me down and I never really had high expectations in the first place. I just love drawing and the reception of my clients to me is worth much much more than the money that comes with that. I think that's what keeps me motivated the most. I always wanted to be a commercial artist, cause I wanted to sustain myself, but along the road I realized that what really keeps me going and trying to improve is the art itself.

>> No.3470099

>>3468605
So how much of that $4590 a month do you actually get after fees and bots?

>> No.3470103

>>3468682
>jus be urself bro and you'll get paid in hip coffee beans and ping pong tables at our rad new startup

>> No.3470115

>>3470103
I think Jack Conte is partially responsible for over selling what patreon really is. The platform itself isnt going to magically get you patrons. You have to market yourself to get people to pledge.

The only advantage of patreon is it gives consumers one specific place where they can support creators they like.

>> No.3470116
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3470116

>>3470115

>> No.3470119

>>3468224
you can use your patreon for an extra stream of revenue though

>> No.3470127

>>3468224
it's hard to make it as an audience but also most patreon creators are trash. i'm sure if you stripped away the garbage you'd get something more like 15-20%

>> No.3470155
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3470155

>>3470099
See pic attached.

>> No.3470166

>>3470099
Also, the number on the page takes fees into account already.
Only additional fee is the one you pay to transfer the money from Patreon to PayPal (1% capped at $20) or Payoneer ($3).

>> No.3470224

>>3470155
>>3470166
Oh cool, thanks! I was wondering because a friend of mine loses like 50% of his pledges to bots every month (under $100/month)

>> No.3470230

>>3470099
>>3470224
what's bots? how do bots steal your patreon?

>> No.3470247

>>3470230
Scrapers. They "pledge" and get access to the content, but the addresses are fake so when Patreon starts charging the artist doesn't get anything from it.

>> No.3470251

>>3468605
QUESTION SIR/MA'AM: Aside from porn, what do you think played the biggest role in your popularity? activity rate? fan art? what?

>> No.3470273
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3470273

>>3470251
Activity rate most of all. By a huge margin. I never did a lot of fanart, unless you consider FF14 original characters to be fanart. I guess that's borderline fanart, now that I think about it.
Second factor was probably engagement with clients and fans (mostly while streaming on Picarto).
All the rest is optional. You need to have decent art of course, but quality of art and skills aren't -that- important imo.
I wrote a response to a tumblr ask about this some time ago. See pic attached.

>> No.3470349

>>3468224
>>3468226

thats amazing actually one would expect it to be 0.5 or less.

>> No.3470353

>>3468327
also take into account earning dollars whilt not living in a first world country.

>> No.3470363

>>3469261
but the odds are in your favor. OP doesnt know how to read a graph or simply trolling.

>> No.3470398

>>3469865
Thanks for the feedback. I wasnt trying to be a pessimist, if it came across sounding like that. It's just being realistic. My generation got spoonfeed the whole "you can do anything" narative instead of anything practical. I think thats why theres lots of salty crabs everywhere.

>> No.3470423
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3470423

I'm not there yet but I'm really happy with what I already got.

>> No.3470427

>>3470423
$32 for 12 people? looks like your tier prices are low

>> No.3470430

>>3470427
To be fair, I don't do commissions and my "locked" content are personal updates, sketches etc. at $1 and then for $5 my music WIPs and my written stuff which is mostly poetry and some prose. I'm not exclusively doing visual art.

>> No.3470435

>>3470099
>>3468605
>up $74 since I made this post
Damn

>> No.3470952

I want to create a patreon but...

- can I use paypal for porn?
- can I draw lolis

>> No.3471066

>>3468605
youve been drawing for so long and youve barely improved.

>> No.3471087

>>3471066
cant improve upon perfection

>> No.3471108

>>3470952
no
lol no

>> No.3471148

>>3471066
I consider improving upon speed more important than anything. I've improved tons when it comes to that.
Nowadays I can finish a drawing in 3-4 hours. A drawing for which, quality wise, I would've spent 15 hours 2-3 years ago.
I consider that invaluable.

>> No.3471321

>>3471087
just curious, why do you have it set to monthly? couldn't you literally double it by charging biweekly?

>> No.3471342

>>3471321
I didn't post that lol.
I prefer to send rewards out 1 time a month, and no, I wouldn't double the revenue, cause for half the work obviously I wouldn't be charging the same amount.
Also, I'm making more than enough already. I'm not a greedy person. If anything I'll lower tier prices to make the lower tiers accessible to more people.
In the long run it's better to have more patrons that give little money, than less patrons that pay a lot.

>> No.3471872

>>3471066
>t.salt

>> No.3471877

>>3471342
Are you in the US? Im thinking of setting up a patreon but Im not in the states and Im not sure how to satisfy the tax man

>> No.3471953

>>3471877
I'm an EU citizen. I just report all my earnings from Patreon to my tax office and that's it.

>> No.3471958

>>3471877
if its like camming/mv/c4s (which it almost certainly is) then you will be considered an independent contractor aka self employed and therefore must report your earnings + pay taxes. I did this by waiting til the last minute ("tax day"/stupid) and paying them. set aside 1/3 of your earnings so you can pay them by tax day for that year. how much you make obviously determines how much you pay. if its low enough you won't pay anything at all. if it's a few dollars too high you'll pay double than what you may have thought.

1/3 of every "check" you get from patreon is a safe amt to put away/save.

>> No.3471999

>>3471148
any tips to improve on speed ?

>> No.3472005

If you live not in 3rd world you can literally clean toilets and earn more or the same as most of the top artists

>> No.3472107

>>3468224
2% is actually pretty good, that one person in fifty. if you subtract the people that don't really try, that even higher. this is strangely motivating.

>> No.3472285

>>3468264
>pends between 20-25 hours updating a comic on Patreon
I thought that uploading an image and posting something doesn't take more than 10 min.

I mean I they spend so much time updating patreon... maybe that's the reason they don't have time to draw.

>> No.3472291

>>3472005
if you get about $1000 for flipping burgers somewhere in America. then you are getting as much money as the mid-class. or a nice job. if no college.

min wage here is $440 for 8 hours of shitty work.(1 hour to launch not included)

>> No.3472296

>>3468371
>I'm too lazy to become highly skilled so you're dumb for trying when I won't

communist scum detected.

>> No.3472297

>>3468546
this... the article exaggerates things.

>>3468621
lol, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. the article assumes you are this person or similar.

>> No.3472299

>>3468251
Its a hobby dumbass. Do you have nothi g you just enjoy doing outside of work? I work my ass off at a normie job but I still dedicate plenty of time to my hobbies.

>> No.3472306

>It actually makes my heart sink when I think of the magnitude of the web’s systemic abuse of creative people.

The fucking delusion that they believe we owe them anything. Why should I spend my hard earned money on these people?

>> No.3472309

>>3472296
I'll buy a lottery ticket for you, how's that sound?

>> No.3472310

>>3468224
So youre telling me I should just give up like a little fucking bitch with low self esteem?

>> No.3472476

>>3471999
1. Draw stuff you aren't comfortable drawing (exit your comfort zone as much as possible). For me this was coloring.
2. Time yourself and set time limits.
3. Draw as much as possible, but this is a general advice (just common sense).

>> No.3472482

>>3472306
You shouldn't. Nobody is forcing you.
But there are people that want to support. Those are the people that Patreon is meant for. Obviously you aren't one of them.

>> No.3472520

>>3472309
like you don't have the confidence in yourself to build a high level skill set.

>> No.3472524

>>3468276
>why do we always like to think we are the exception.

Retarded neoliberal dogma. It keeps all the rubes on the hamster wheel.

>> No.3472634

>>3468264
If Ayla Arthur is spending 25 fucking hours on something that is ONLY going on patreon and has no other future lucrative purpose (like, I dunno, producing an actual fucking comic book?), then they are doing it wrong.

>> No.3472684

>>3472476
thank you! I have the same problem, my coloring suck! do you have any specific advice on it ?

>> No.3472739

>>3468303
Most of the artists above beg level are on the green side.
But most of the artists in patreon are not above beg level.

>> No.3472743

>>3472005
You can earn as much as a CEO if you're a high risk fisherman and travel with the seasons.
Doesn't mean that's something you want to do, or that you'll live to use that money.

>> No.3473087

>>3472684
Just study color theory. I am reading Gurney's Color and Light right now. Helps a lot. My biggest issue is color picking.

>> No.3473098

>>3472739
this
also, if any good artists are not making at least $100 a month they're probably not marketing themselves enough. the average person doesn't even know patreon exists, only idiots like the writer of the article believe that people will magically find you and your work with no effort on your part.

>> No.3473104

>>3468224
It's not a issue unless you have a patron for a big project, like a game or a series. If you just want to get paid a bit extra, just do commissions.

>> No.3473159

>>3468224

A lot of them are Hispanics, our average salary is less than half your minimum wage, our minimum wage is extreme poverty.

>> No.3473164

>>3468278

It is if he had good drawing genetics (Japanese) or if he is extremely attractive (black)

>> No.3473175
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3473175

>>3473164
>black
>attractive

>> No.3473213

>>3473175

For the ladies ;)

And for the slim white college boys that study useless shit ;)

>> No.3473225
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3473225

>>3473213
>For the ladies ;)

>> No.3473236

>>3471953
>I just report all my earnings from Patreon to my tax office and that's it.

not that anon, but how do you go about it, do you just show them your bank account receipts, or some additional patreon related receipts? Sorry new to this

>> No.3473238

>>3473236
are you NA? cus in the US its DEFINITELY a different process than just showing what youve earned

>> No.3473242

>>3472476
thanks anon. Mind sharing how you've improved at gesture and anatomy? Always have trouble and new a few go's until something sticks. Since you only need like 3h per piece atm, I assume you nail the structure down quite fast

>> No.3473244

>>3473238
eu as well

>> No.3473996

>>3473242

Only thing I ever truly studied, besides color theory, was perspective, because I wanted to get better at inventing poses and more dynamic compositions for comics.
For that I read Loomis' book Successful Drawing.

For anatomy, Proko's course helped me a lot: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtG4P3lq8RHFBeVaruf2JjyQmZJH4__Zv

As for gesture, that's all about mileage and grinding imo. There's a lot of muscle memory involved and practice is the only way to acquire that.