Ah, permission shmermission!

[Anonymous No.3267840]

Sup, /ic/, today I learned that most artists (granted, artists on the forums of a 13yr+ petsite) prefer a quick ask before being given critique. I'd never considered that people might actually give a shit whether you give unsolicited advice, but apparently people feel pretty strongly about this.
direct quotes from users:
>"At the end of the day, it’s the artists choice to decide when they want to seek help on improvement. You can offer help, of course, but do the right thing and ask. If that artist doesn’t want help? So be it. That’s on their shoulders."
>"here’s a radical idea… DON’T GIVE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM TO PEOPLE WHO DIDN’T ASK FOR IT ? ? it costs zero dollars to shut the fuck up and keep your shit ass opinions to yourself. if no one asked then no one cares. unsolicited critiques are annoying (and RUDE) af so do the artists a favor and take your “”””constructive criticism”””” fold it into a tiny paper plane and toss that useless garbage away"
>"crash course in offering constructive criticism: GET EXPLICIT CONSENT FIRST. and you know what? as an artist, being asked politely if i’d accept suggestions and/or criticism gives me a chance to mentally prepare myself in a positive way, even if its a little harsh and goes against my own opinions."
>"I mean, I do appreciate criticism for sure! But a simple “Hi, I noticed a couple things, would you like to know how you could improve?” is a LOT more appreciated than suddenly getting a huge explanation. It makes it less of an ‘attack’ and more of 'oh cool I needed help, thank you!’"
How does /ic/, a more adult-oriented art board, feel? Is this a pussy thing to care about, or do they have a point? please weigh in, discuss :^)
http://www.strawpoll.me/14791197

[Anonymous No.3267859]

>>3267840
As far as this place goes, when you post in artwork/critique you have already given consent to critique.

In general if somebody is singing a terrible song then they are not entitle to not be told by you to please stop because it is terrible but there's a point in them not having to listen to a lecture on why you think it is terrible.

Of course such fragile egos are often hungry for attention so they may not even realize they ask for critique. If they ask what you think about it and you tell them you don't like how they handle shadows and that they could benefit from learning anatomy then that's fair but that's not going to prevent them from freaking out.

Just tell them their shit sucks if you don't like it and if you don't feel like getting into an argument over stupid stuff (That's what /ic/ is for).

[Anonymous No.3267863]

>>3267840

That person is overreacting but it's generally a good idea to only give advice when it's asked for. If you're on a art forum it's a given that you can critique their work but on other social platforms (such as facebook) it's more often than not more appropriate to just say "sick work dude!" or nothing at all.
You may not need tact on 4chan but you do pretty much everywhere else. Also, unsolicited advice is in general not appreciated. Don't be a sperg.

[Anonymous No.3267865]

I guess it depends on the place you post the artwork.
I wouldn't like people to go on my tumblr and comment some random critique, but if it is on a forum or discord it's another story.

[Anonymous No.3267884]

>>3267859
this. if you post it dont get pissed if someone crits it.

[Anonymous No.3267890]

>>3267840
The last person had the best point. If not for the sake of tact, just setting up a proper stage for it seems the best way to get value out of it on all sides. If the artist says yes, they're opening themselves up to hearing it, cutting down on knee-jerk reactions. I think if they're polite, which doesn't mean being sugary about it just using neutral language to ask, that helps set the receiver even more at ease and less likely to think the critique is a veiled attack. If they say no, the critiquer can save their effort for someone else who wants it. If they actually care about helping people learn they won't feel rewarded giving critique to someone who rebuffs them, they'll feel like they wasted their time. It feels like a win-win. I agree with the first anon too though, when you post in a literal critique forum like this place you're basically actively asking for critique and should be open to it.
Not that people here are.

[Anonymous No.3267902]

>>3267840
/ic/ is specifically meant for crits

Nobody wants some random faggot on the internet to “crit” them on da or wherever.

That’s like emailing rapoza about his portfolio to tell him his proportions are a bit off and linking him some subsurface scattering tutorials you think might help him improve.
Everyone can improve, nobody wants to talk to you about it.

Most importantly, retards who go out of their way to “critique” strangers who never asked for it In the fucking comments are always, without exception, complete autists that can’t even draw because they waste time getting ego boosts by telling people about boxes.

[Anonymous No.3268063]

>>3267840
If I'm not interested in critique on a piece then it'd be a waste of time writing the critique. I wouldn't be mad about it, but someone would've wasted their time all the same. That's the reason I specifically ask for critique when I want it, and the reason I don't give unsolicited critique.

[guy No.3268069]

>>3267840

only weenies believe in that kind of thing because they want to live in their bubble where their art is flawless.

i bet everyone who demands 'consent' for critiques is thoroughly mediocre at best. tim buckley never gave consent for being known as the prime example of a creator of a bad comic for many years.

[Anonymous No.3268106]

>>3267840
Consent isn't sexy.

[Anonymous No.3268108]

>>3267840
Snowflake millennials are so weak.
Im so glad im not a dumb millennial.

[Anonymous No.3268110]

>>3268108
So you're like 45 or wicked underage.

[Anonymous No.3268113]

>>3267840
>/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

personally, i don't read replies if i don't want critique.
on a related note, you don't have to read everything you find on internet. especially if you might find it offensive.

[Anonymous No.3268131]

>>3268110
Naw im gen y.

[Anonymous No.3268149]

>>3267840
Do not sweep trash from outside into here. You're coming to /ic/ because you think it's better? You're the one making it worse

>some nobody on another website said something retarded, gotta blog about it on /ic/!
This thread needs to be deleted.

Also I agree with whoever has triggered you. It costs two cents to give your opinion, half of that if someone gives a penny for your thoughts. But silence is golden.

[Anonymous No.3268151]

>>3268063
This, it helps the critic too, so they know they're not completely wasting their time.
And I guess it's a matter of courtesy, like the last quote mentions, it will then feel more like help than an attack. I agree with other anons, the site/platform matters too, on here ofc you'll get critiqued, that's what the board is for.

also
>/ic/, a more adult-oriented art board
lol

[Anonymous No.3268157]

>>3267840
Something else I wanted to say about this: I personally don't want critiques on finished pieces. The beginning is the stage for correcting things, not the end. So when I've posted a finished piece for display I'm not going to take critique and go back and mess with it. If it's something general like 'work on hands' then I might keep it in mind for future works. I've noticed this problem a lot on /ic/. A lot of people skip critiquing thumbnails and rough sketches and only give input on pieces that are nearly finished. Some of it can still be helpful, like correcting color or edges or anything having to do with polish, but once things are being rendered it's hard to fix fundamental issues like anatomy or perspective. I get why it happens though, once things are being rendered the flaws become more obvious. It just detracts from the critique imo since it becomes more for the next picture and could lead to overworking the first one.

[Anonymous No.3268164]

>>3268157
To clarify my point a little more, I mean when it comes to giving critique I think it's important to be mindful of what stage the picture is in. If someone wants to critique and it's finished, firstly that may be a hint that the artist may not want critique for it. If they offer and the artist accepts anyway, they should point out general weaknesses that can be improved for another picture. If it's nearly done, they should offer advice for polishing it, and so on for the different phases. I think that, as well, can make a critique seem helpful and actually be helpful, and therefore more well received.

[Anonymous No.3268167]

Tip: stop expecting maturity from teenage girls (in their natural environment, no less).

[Anonymous No.3268174]

>>3267840
>GET EXPLICIT CONSENT FIRST
Constructive critique is literally rape

[Anonymous No.3268186]

>>3267840
>"here’s a radical idea…" blah blah blah.
She's not wrong, but that entire section is the most asshurt thing I've hurt this month. I'm assuming it's a girl because I really hope boys haven't become so beta that they'd actually bitch like this.

[Anonymous No.3268330]

>>3267840
>I'd never considered that people might actually give a shit whether you give unsolicited advice, but apparently people feel pretty strongly about this.
That because it probably not just you giving it but a bunch of people at the same time making their phone go of constantly and being a nuisance.

[Anonymous No.3268331]

>>3267840
The thing is, it can be annoying when people seem to talk down to you and be unnecessary nitpicky.
Especially in a situation where you just wanted to share your work. Personally I'd be super thankful if someone gave me a genuine critique, like pointing out the major issues and maybe giving some on-point recommendations.
>Dude, this specific thing isn't working
>I also noticed you make this mistake over and over again
>Here is a source that might help you fix it (optional)

The problem are novel sized, unfocused rants of elitist critics, that don't seem to want to help you, but feel better about themselves or brag with their artistic knowledge. You can just say thank you and take one or two things actually to heart, but often these folks feel entitled enough to go back, check your next work and be mad at you for not implementing every detail they pointed out. The good thing is that you can ignore annoying users like that and it rarely happens outside of /ic/.

I don't think it should be mandatory to ask first before you give critique, that is silly. It's up to the author if they decide to read it and if they agree on it. It's good form, regardless of your opinion on the given critique, to always thank the person. That makes them happy and you don't come off as an ass.

Just don't give critique if you don't want to help that person and don't get defensive, regardless of the critique you were given and learn to decide between bad critique and critique that rings true, but hurts. If get really angry about critique, chances are that they were right. (This especially happens to me when I feel others tell me things that I already know, but I swallow my pride in that case and listen, as I might have not understood the concept as well as I thought)

Sometimes it's tough to accept critique, but it's necessary to grow as an artist.

[Anonymous No.3268335]

how dare you not ask for permission to complain about my critique

[Anonymous No.3268337]

>13yr+ pet site

are you fucking talking about neopets? is that place still alive?

[Anonymous No.3268338]

>>3268335

[Anonymous No.3268343]

>>3267840
all the people quoted in greentext are faggot snowflakes. making your work or self public is sufficient consent for critique. if you do not like this, get out of the public sphere. especially art. i have a feeling all those people suck at what they do.

[Anonymous No.3268345]

>>3268335

[Anonymous No.3268381]

>>3267840
>advice
Let me guess, you acted like a retard and annoyed someone and they didn't like it.
I don't think you understand this but if an artist wanted to get better and improve in a way the average follower critique could help, he would fucking have already. Most artists are not looking to improve. They are just drawing and sharing. That's what they like doing. By bringing unsolicited critiques where they're unwanted and flexing your huge art knowledge you're just adding something annoying to something someone did for the fun of it.
In other words: you're an ass.

[Anonymous No.3268387]

Unsolicitied critique is annoying if it's not on a place that's designed for critique, like /ic/. If you're being a bitch about critique on /ic/ you're posting your art in the wrong place, end of story. That said, if I was drawing on a bus and some guy walked up to me and started critiquing me I'd probably find it really annoying as well. There's a time and a place.

Some of your quotes are fucking obnoxious babies about it, but the premise is valid.

[Anonymous No.3268391]

>>3267859
>Just tell them their shit sucks if you don't like it and if you don't feel like getting into an argument over stupid stuff (That's what /ic/ is for).

What?

Just don't say anything at all if you don't want to get into an argument. When on earth did nonconstructive insult-flinging avoid arguments?

[Anonymous No.3268393]

If you're putting your work up for public display, it's available for public critique; freedom of speech works both ways, plebs.

Now if you limit your audience to only those who ask permission to view (invite only, paywall, etc), then you can set whatever conditions you want and except your audience to follow them.

[Anonymous No.3268404]

>>3268393
Nobody is saying it's illegal, imbecile, it's about the artist disliking it.
What's your objective anyway?
You want to help this guy, so you critique? If you want to help, you're being nice. So you want to be nice? But he doesn't want critique. That wouldn't be nice of you to critique when he doesn't want your dumbass critique. So you aren't being nice, you're being as asshole. So don't fucking critique.
Or you want to be an asshole by making a snarky critique? Then you already start in the wrong.
Everything you do is an attempt to masturbate your ego by showing off how you have a much better grasp on art than the artist. You are not doing it for them, you are doing it for yourself. That's why you should not fucking critique.

[Anonymous No.3268407]

>>3268404
>triggered
lol

[Anonymous No.3268411]

>>3268404
Not everyone has the same taste in art. If you put your art in a public forum, you're going to rub *someone* the wrong way. So, what, should you not post anything publicly because someone, somewhere will dislike? That's asinine.

[Anonymous No.3268419]

>>3268404
>how dare you not ask for my permission to complain about my comment

[Anonymous No.3268434]

>>3268404
>If you want to help, you're being nice.
>So you want to be nice?
>But he doesn't want critique.
>You should just shut the fuck up.
What the hell do you think 'being nice' means? If you have a bad habit and you don't want to change it, is it really 'nice' of me to pretend that everything is alright and let you continue wallowing in your own filth? Maybe pat you on the head and tell you you're doing a good job? That would just be feeding into your delusions.

[Anonymous No.3268437]

>>3268411
Not him, but the problem here is that op is whining about people not wanting his crits and telling him to fuck off.
Some of them explaining how to not waste his time writing crits that will not be read anyway because op is too much of an autist to understand tumblr isn’t /ic/.
If some random pleb walked into the gallery and started critiquing your work with meme buzzwords and tried giving you a copy of FWaP you’d tell him to fuck off, too.

And let’s not pretend he gave an insightful advice and didn’t just nitpick like an autist

[Anonymous No.3268441]

>>3268434
>be wannabe professional dancer
>practice a lot to be as good as the real pros
>walk into club
>everyone is flailing around like a retard
>no choreography at all
>EVERYBODY STOP
>I CANNOT LET YOU WALLOW IN YOUR FILTH
>THIS IS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD

[Anonymous No.3268462]

>>3268434
What the hell do YOU think being nice means? Doing something to someone they don't want you to do? Do you think because you feel you're right it's alright to trample over other people's feelings "for their own good"? Who are you to know what's better for other people?
You are the art equivalent of a social justice warrior. A total dumbass seeking to judge and execute art justice who can't understand why people think you're a total dumbass.

[Anonymous No.3268471]

>>3268391
Normally people can put things into context and moderate their language to fit the situation and right now you are on 4chan. Don't act like you are on 4chan outside 4chan by taken things literally. please don't be autistic.

And the guy obviously wanted to say something so telling him not to is not going to work. Context please. But it takes two for an argument. The "why" to why you don't like something does not require an answer.

[Anonymous No.3268481]

>>3268462
shut the fuck up, your opinion is literally raping me

[Anonymous No.3268488]

>>3268481
Maybe you shouldn't have tome to the opinion gang-rape fiesta that is /ic/ and stayed in the safe space of deviant art.

[Anonymous No.3268496]

>>3268488
get some reading comprehension nigger

[Anonymous No.3268512]

>>3268496
Where would I get a nigger with reading comprehension when abolitionists let them do what they want, so they never finish school, you fucking retard?

[Anonymous No.3268519]

>>3268512
If I did it so can you!

[Anonymous No.3268542]

It's socially unacceptable to do anything if the environment isn't the right one for the social action you're attempting. There's a certain culture and expectation that is unique in every community and social group and it varies from place to place and it is good etiquette to be socially aware of what each community finds tolerable. There's a time and place for everything; you can't treat all situations equally, all the time. It's socially retarded to think you can just rant off critiques to everyone all the time. That said, it's also equally socially retarded to go into a critique-heavy environment, such as a school or /ic/, or similar environment, and expect people to not blast you to shit at random, given the culture in a learning environment is about blasting shit at you at random.

What it boils down to is where this person is posting their art. If it's a learning environment, they're a baby, no question about it. If it's a casual environment, you just accidentally wandered into their safe space and you should probably get the hell out of there. I know you might want to destroy their safe space, but they're hiding in it because they can't handle confrontation at this stage in their life. You breaking their safe space isn't going to make them better--people don't learn well when they're unwilling. They'll just run away and find a safer place.

[Anonymous No.3268602]

>>3268542
>hurr durr not wanting advice from faggots on deviant art means you’re scared and hiding
Or maybe they have their own venue for getting critiques and don’t want to feed wandering autists and encourage them to keep shitting in their yard.

Retards here literally nitpick and “crit” ruan jia and Mullins, and those are the ones aware enough to confine their autism to /ic/

>safe space
/is/ is a safe space for dunning krugers to vent their frustration by parroting other dunning krugers’ theories about drawing without having to expose their own shit art so they protect their fee fees

[Anonymous No.3268613]

>>3267840
I agree to some extent because not everyone wants to do it professionally. Some artists especially young artists are hobbyists. If they want critique on something they'll ask but to suddenly point out the flaws in something they made for fun can be disheartening.

If that artist wants to be a pro however I think, no matter what, they should be open to critique.

[Anonymous No.3268614]

whats with all these faggot ass crybabies. holy shit. if you dont like crit, stop posting your shit online. if you post it online, fuck you, youre gonna get shat on whether you like it or not. and if you bitch about it, fuck your life. bitch ass niggas

[Anonymous No.3268621]

>>3268602
top kek lol

[Anonymous No.3268625]

>>3268614
fuckin this.

[Anonymous No.3268649]

you know what? fuck you pussies. im gonna dedicate my time to publically shitting on pussy artists. so you better whatch the shit you post with your name. cuz im gonna take it and shit on it online. the more you bitch about it. the more i will shit on you.

[Anonymous No.3268660]

>>3268649
>block account

[Anonymous No.3268771]

>>3268649
Shouldn't you be studying to graduate middle-school first?

[Anonymous No.3268784]

>>3268337
I don't know if the OP is talking about neopets, but yes the site still exists.

[Anonymous No.3268786]

>>3268542
>It's socially unacceptable to do anything if the environment isn't the right one for the social action you're attempting.

The major flaw in your argument is that it's individual how people view an environment and what is considered socially acceptable. Only people isolated in subculture hug-groups are to stunted in their social development to realize this.

[Anonymous No.3268835]

>>3267840
>more adult-oriented board
Please, this board has its large share of immature people that can't handle critiques on their work and or their ideologue. Don't hold this place in such high regard.

That being said; critiques should always be given in mind of how to make the artist improve, even if the critique isn't utilized in further work.
On this board it's almost an unspoken rule that whatever work you post here is under the scrutiny of dozens of anonymous users at any time- regardless if they like what's posted or not. And for this website it works mainly due to the aforementioned anonymity. Once you've got a name or persona attached this almost unfiltered way to comment on work becomes one-hundred times more personal even if you don't intend it to.
I agree with what's been said about the last quote you pulled- and even on tumblr I see it used appropriately. Someone will ask the artist if they're open to critiques or not, and if they aren't its largely due to the idea that the blog in question just might be specifically for art work only- but those are usually rare.
And if they don't consent? I agree with the first quote as well. It's all on them- you shouldn't help those who don't ask for it. Don't like it? Stop being such a snowflake. We live in the age of instant information, there are millions of other artists you can find that you like. Live and let live, we all improve or fail at our own pace.

[Anonymous No.3268858]

This whole thread is full of tl;dr

[Anonymous No.3268876]

>>3268858
The only useful thing in this thread is the light and shadow study posted in the OP. Looks like a nice quick reference for simple cartoon shading.

[Anonymous No.3269028]

>>3267840
> you shouldn't say anything otherwise it just hurts people's feelings

Damn does this sound like some leftist feelings bullshit. The Internet is a public place. If you post something on a website that has a forum open to the public, they should be able to say what ever you want. Otherwise don't post your shit

[Anonymous No.3271873]

>>3267840
Its not about unsolicited critique for me.

Its about not knowing the person giving the critique.

Over the internet that person giving tips on anatomy could either be a pro concept-artist or a pro Deviant-artist and unless I wanna put the effort in to find out I assume its the latter

[Anonymous No.3271911]

>>3271873
You could be getting advice from 9 year olds or /b tards or grandmas or mentally unstable psychopaths.
It doesn't matter, because at the end of the day, it's your decision whether you agree or disagree with the critique.
my rule of thumb is, if i hear a meme word, i ignore that post.

[Anonymous No.3272069]

>>3267840
The second snowflake is asking to be destroyed.

Also, what's to stop people from reposting them and explain why they're shit? Technically, they're not telling it to the artist. I'll agree with most of the people here that sometimes advice is unwarranted for various reasons (like a meme you did for shits and giggles); on the flipside, some people should grow a fucking spine and accept that nobody is obligated to give them high fives.

[Anonymous No.3272073]

>>3267840
I think it's pretty natural to dislike unsolicited advice in general.

[Anonymous No.3272079]

>>3267840
Good artists spend more time actually improving than patting themselves on the back about how superior they are compared to others.

The empty kettle always rattles louder than the full one which is silent.

[Anonymous No.3272084]

I usually struggle to get any feedback on my drawings, so i'm pretty much starving for constructive criticism at any time. And yes, i've posted here already.

I would obviously prefer it if the person criticizing was competent himself/herself, and i'd never shun any advice from competent people in general, whether sollicited or not. But you don't always get to choose who's giving you tips, and if they're sound, there's no need to ignore them.

[Anonymous No.3272195]

>>3267840
looks like SJW lunatic """logic"""
if your posting anything online anywhere for people to see, you should except to be criticized, insulted, or whatever else.

dont like it, then dont let other people see your shit.

[Anonymous No.3273616]

>>3267840
Which petsite?

[Anonymous No.3273621]

>>3272079
This lol
A good artist knows their weakness and improves on it
Also who gives a fuck what other people think

[Anonymous No.3273635]

>>3267840
unsolicited criticising someone's work is a pretty good way to make people not like you. making people like you and looking like a nice professional is the point of a web presence. only /icdwellers desperate to be negative will feel strongly about their 'right' to walk into someone's house and say their drapes look like shit.