/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.2709255]

Hello, /ic/. I've recently decided I want to make it so I picked up How to Draw and How to Render by Scott Robertson. First off, how the hell do I apply any of what he's saying? Am I supposed to build a perspective grid for every single drawing I make? Can his information readily be applied to organic forms? I get that he likes drawing cars and environments, but what about people?

TL;DR, will grinding his exercises by making perspective grids and drawing houses and cars and shit make me better at drawing "freehand", without (or with few) perspective and construction lines, or is this my new reality? Because otherwise this feels very much like cheating and kind of takes the soul out of drawing for me.

[Anonymous No.2709269]

You dont have to draw a grid for everything you draw... once you get how perspective works, you are going to be able to freehand shapes in accurate perspective. This will also help you the human form in amazing perspectives, etc. Same goes for anything else you study. Ex if you study how light works youre going to be able to produce better form with light.

[Anonymous No.2709288]

>>2709255
Ditch that book and do something else. The "ideal" training is useless if it makes you lose interest in art and stop. Start somewhere that holds more interest to you, maybe get Vilppu's Drawing Manual or something.

[Anonymous No.2709295]

>>2709288

I would be more than happy to grind Scott Robertson's books if they make me overall a better artist, though. I just don't want to reduce all my art to mere mathematics.

[Anonymous No.2709297]

>>2709295
the fundies of art are all what you would consider "mathmatics". Art is not the emotional feely shit you think it is, it's a very very technical craft that you can express feely shit with.

[Anonymous No.2709299]

>>2709295
They're useful skills, though as a beginner you may not be able to fully translate all the skills to other areas in art that easily. It's more the kind of thing that in 5 or 10 years you will be like "wow that was pretty useful actually".

All that said, it's certainly not necessary to grind through his book like that. When I started out there was nothing like this out there and I never did any grinding on perspective, and I am working professionally at the moment. Plenty of others have done the same. Most illustration work requires very little hardcore constructing and perspective, and nowadays with 3d is is becoming less important to manually do it all.

[Anonymous No.2709310]

>>2709295
>>2709255

I say it again - work on bigger project that you'd love to finish, break it to what you need to do, get proper planning and schedule, learn as you go.

Recently I said it to the other guy: you want to make weekly webcomic? About what? Adventure Time style? So 2 "bro" characters, 1 young adventurer hero and the other magical and a bit clumsy creature?

Break it up further. What you need - you need main characters. So you need to make 2 character designs. You have too little information to make them. So what is the world? What is the adventure? Oh, ok, so now gather references. Write stuff, brainstorm it with yourself. Describe some key features with words: bat ears? magic compass? ok, so now, how do you draw bat ears?

Pics related. Something is wrong? Looks like shit? Research, ask /ic/, NOW go for book and see: oooh, yeah, perspective is off, colors are bad, I need to have better construction...

Grinding stuff without clear and defined purpose and without marking goals you reached is pointless and you will soon realize it and stop doing art.

[Anonymous No.2709313]

>>2709310

Also this one.

[Anonymous No.2709427]

>>2709310
so much this.
I spent the last two years pointlessly grinding my ass off and only recently did I start to give myself assignments, which put the fun and the gains back into drawing.
Robertsons book is fucking great by the way, it'll give you rock-solid perspective fundamentals, but please take my advice, anon, and don't just copy the diagrams, but do a couple of pieces from your imagination after each chapter, applying the constructions you've just learned.

[Anonymous No.2709434]

>>2709427
Oh and learning the stuff in this book will definitively improve your freehand drawings.
Fun fact: Most step-by-step-constructions in this book are drawn without straightedges. Look at those fucking lines!

[Anonymous No.2709452]

>>2709427
This.

When studying a book, always apply.

Study the chapter, then apply, then study, then apply.

Your learning will be much more effective.

Don't only study without applying what you've studied, otherwise chunks of it won't engrain themselves in your brain, likewise, application with no study is just as less fruitful than studying then applying.

[Anonymous No.2709867]

Anyone mind helping me with my perspective grids? I get that I need to create a 60 degree cone of vision and I get that the circumference of that cone intersects the horizon line at 30 degrees from the station point, but how am I supposed to find that 30 degree intersection? Do I need a protractor or is there a way to 'eyeball' it? I can find the 45 degrees easily enough because it's literally a diagonal, but then what?

[Anonymous No.2709871]

>>2709255
>will grinding his exercises by making perspective grids and drawing houses and cars and shit make me better at drawing "freehand

Yes

[Anonymous No.2709951]

>>2709867
You divide a straight angle on three equal parts. It doesn't have to be perfect.

[Anonymous No.2710003]

>>2709297
What Scott Robertson is doing has nothing to do with the fundamentals though. Perspective is a very simple tool to allow artists to draw an illusion of 3 dimensional space on a 2 dimensional surface. What Scott Robertson teaches is a waste of time for anyone who doesn't want to get into industrial design.

I can assure you, there are thousands upon thousands of seasoned professionals in the animation industry, comic books, illustration, Hollywood etc who have never wasted their time with all the pointless shit he teaches in how to draw.

[Anonymous No.2710091]

>>2710003

Feng Zhu is a successful concept artist and he reccommends Scott's books for learning fundamentals. Who am I supposed to trust, you or someone who has had a successful, long career and who turns shit-tier artists into decent artists in the span of a year?

[Anonymous No.2710096]

>>2710091
Feng specializes in environments and sci fi design, so obviously Scott's book is relevant. I think he also studied under Scott at Art Center. But Feng sucks at figures and illustration so if you want to do that then this book is not all that necessary. Most artists don't use this type of mechanical drawing, it's really mostly for industrial design.

[Anonymous No.2710103]

>>2710091
I couldn't give less of a shit who you trust and I encourage you to buy the book and make up your own mind about it. I've read Scott's book and in my opinion it is garbage. Scott is not a good teacher, he wrote that book not to teach but to stroke his ego by pretending he's some kind of nasa rocket scientist or some shit.

A good teacher is supposed to simplify complex material and make it more accessible for others. Scott did the exact opposite. He took a fairly simple concept and overcomplicated it as much as he possibly could. Now, I will say that if your goal is to be an actual architect or to focus a lot on industrial design, the book is probably pretty helpful. But for any other type of artist who wants to work in the entertainment industry, you are just wasting your time.

[Anonymous No.2710106]

>>2710096
>>2710103
Gotta agree with these posts.

[Anonymous No.2710115]

>>2710003
Perspective is fundamental and everyone uses it regardless of how you go about applying the concept.

gg kid, you're never gonna make it.

[Anonymous No.2710127]

>>2710115
Perspective is important, but you can learn enough for most careers in art in a matter of a few days with a basic perspective book. You don't need to go fully anal mechanical with it all like Scott and you certainly don't need to practice straight lines and ellipses for an hour a day.

[Anonymous No.2710144]

>>2710127
>>2710103
>>2710003

t. lazy

[Anonymous No.2710176]

>>2709255
Before you start diving into theory and 10million guidelines lines to make one line- look around your living space for some boxes or buy some- maybe even get yourself some of those wooden cubes they have at craft stores, set them around you at different angles just draw them every day for a few weeks. Don't focus on going full "still-life" and rendering all the shadows of each deformed box you make at first. Just practice on trying to get the basic idea down first. It's better to start over 10 times than to spend all of your time on one drawing. Practice learning to draw basic things that you see. That way your brain is prepared for the information that will come with it later.

Think of how you learn language- you can speak and understand it before you delve into the grammar and spelling aspects and it works faster that way. You'll be reinforcing things your brain has naturally learned instead of constantly worrying about the details when you're practicing.

Drawing simple, 3D objects from life is a great starting point for any artist in terms of actually drawing some subject matter. You may want to warm up with some basic line exercises for about 10-15 minutes before you get started. Holding your pencil in a comfortable manner and building up line confidence is the only other thing you need to worry about at first.

That being said, Scott Robertson's book is amazing, incredibly in depth and useful to artists at almost all stages. But if you really can't stomach his teaching, look up Marshall Vandruff- he has a short video series and he actually explains perspective shit to a class. The stuff he talks about is real simple and he just comes off as really likable. Not Vilppu levels likable- but still pretty nice.

Anyway good luck anon, hope you find something that works for you.

[Anonymous No.2711303]

>>2710176

I want to git gud desperately, and I've been working hard for a couple days now. I've gotten into a very steady groove. I'm just wondering if I should drop these books for now because of people like >>2710003 and >>2709299

I just wanted some rock-solid perspective, form and rendering practice, which I thought these books would provide.

[Anonymous No.2711332]

>>2709295
>I just don't want to reduce all my art to mere mathematics.
son.
the idea is that you approach things technically and mathematically until you can do it on your own. it's like learning the sentence structure of a language; at a certain point you'll be doing it naturally, but you have to drill it in at first.

[Anonymous No.2711338]

>>2711332

I'm fine with that. I just don't want it to become the only thing I do once I "make it".

[Anonymous No.2711858]

>Yeah, but will I really get swole if I stick to following all these strict diet and exercise schedules? Because otherwise this feels very much like cheating and kind of takes the soul out of lifting for me.

[Anonymous No.2711891]

>>2711858
kek

[Anonymous No.2711893]

>>2710127
>a few days
lmao

[Anonymous No.2711935]

>>2709255
His book is mostly relevant to industrial design, architecture, and 3D CG. All 3 can be done on a computer and are done there for the reason that it takes so much time.

The content in there are still useful for when you do perspective normally or want to render a bit. Or when you want to find new ways to do exercises.

But there are lots of things about perspective you won't see there, because of the context he uses it in. It's very one-sided for artists.

[Anonymous No.2711937]

>>2711893
Well, he is right. It took me only a few days, too. Perspective is pretty easy and the important stuff is learned through observational drawing and composition, not through more construction exercises.

>when it didn't take you only a few days to understand perspective

[Anonymous No.2713020]

>>2711937

>Perspective is pretty easy

Why do I even come here anymore? The Dunning-Kreuger effect is fucking out of control. People spend decades mastering perspective.

[Anonymous No.2713024]

>>2713020
Well sure. You can spend a lifetime learning how to draw a near perfect circle but it's neither necessary nor desirable.

Consider the fundamentals part of a spiral curriculum. You cover each of them in brief then apply them, and as you progress you revisit them and build on your previous understanding. You can get a rudimentary understanding in a week, a better understanding over a couple months, a good understanding over a few years and a mastery over a lifetime.

[Anonymous No.2713033]

>>2713020
Perspective is pretty easy in comparison to most other things in art since it's just a set of mechanical rules. At least for learning the basics of it you just need to learn a few concepts like the horizon line, vanishing points, and then one and two point perspective. Knowing a few extra bits like using the center cross to double something, learning about major/minor axes for ellipses, and that objects on a common plane intersect the horizon line at the same point is good too. All this stuff can be learned in a few days though. Sure it's not a mastery of perspective, but it's enough for you to use and apply it most illustration.

[Anonymous No.2713038]

>>2713020
True, I fucked up. Sorry for the shit reply.

My point was only for linear perspective. I agree that it takes years to draw properly in perspective as artists use it. I can't talk about the decades thing.

[Anonymous No.2713452]

>>2710103
>>2710096
This, i bought the book and it's complete garbage

[Anonymous No.2713633]

>>2713452
Yup

[Anonymous No.2713640]

>>2713452
To be honest, yah.

[Anonymous No.2713993]

>>2713633
>>2713640
>>2713452
Nice samefagging

[Anonymous No.2714008]

>>2710103
>Station Point
>Cone of vision
>See-through drawing
>Complex material

When will you self publish your manga doujin?

[Anonymous No.2714023]

>>2713020
>implying perspective isn't just graphing for artists

[Anonymous No.2714483]

>>2713993
not even samefagging

[Anonymous No.2714484]

>>2713993
Wrong

[Anonymous No.2716352]

I've got this and Perspective Made Easy. Both are unopened.

Is it worth starting with the Norling book? Should I just go straight in to How to Draw?

[Anonymous No.2716354]

>>2716352
I would start with the Norling book because it's very well explained in a simple manner. Robertson's book can be overly technical and make your eyes glaze over as he just introduces a ton of complex things right away at face value.

[Anonymous No.2716365]

>>2716354

Thanks anon. I thought that might be the case.

[Anonymous No.2716366]

>>2713033

Having a intellectual understanding of the principles behind perspective is not the same as having actual drawing ability. You can't really say that you "know" perspective after a week if it doesn't translate into solid perspective drawings. And no, drawing a set of train tracks vanishing into the horizon in one point perspective doesn't count you massive faggot.

[Anonymous No.2716375]

Why do I have a feeling this drawing represents the ability of the "oh I learnt perspective in a few days" camp? kek

[Anonymous No.2716377]

>>2716375
Because it's simplistic. That's all there is to amateur work. It would have to be many more times complex for a person to say they're good at perspective such as broken buildings, smoke and a steam train sitting on a rail.

[Anonymous No.2716384]

>>2716375
Everything is too stretched out. All the planes that are receding should be much shallower. The horizon I think is typically around 3 or 5 miles away, something like that, since it depends on how tall you are. You actually put the horizon higher than a person standing, you have it around the second storey level, which means the horizon would be even farther away, maybe 10 or 15 miles (just a guess, I don't know the math). So each of your houses is several miles wide.

[Anonymous No.2716395]

>>2711303
It is very important that you understand perspective, despite what >>2710103 says, because perspective is applied to all 3D forms. Unless you only plan on drawing things as flat shapes forever, perspective will be very useful later on. You certainly don't need to apply every aspect of perspective in every drawing you make, but it is very fundamental and it is better to have a good conceptual understanding of it so that you can pull from that knowledge when it comes time to.
>>2710003
>>2710103
>Perspective is very simple
>says the two idiots who think they're too good for perspective to actually take the time and learn it
Why don't you show us some basic cylinders and pyramids in 2-point perspective on an inclined plane, outside the cone of vision but within a wide-angle (let's say 30 mm) frame?
It's really simple stuff, so it shouldn't take you more than a few minutes to do that.

[Anonymous No.2716402]

>>2716384
Can I get a source on all of this?

[Anonymous No.2716409]

>>2713020
Ignore those retards, they skipped their fundamentals and are gonna have a harder time for it.
>>2713024
>>2713033
Knowing perspective is more than just "drawing a perfect circle", and there's no way you can properly internalize the fundamentals of perspective in a few days. Sure, you can cram all the lessons and concepts in a couple of days, but if you don't spend a few dozen hours actually practicing and applying these concepts and seeing how to use them outside of the teachings, all the perspective you "learned" in those few days will be forgotten when you actually need to use it.

[Anonymous No.2716410]

>>2716402
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon#Distance_to_the_horizon

I actually just checked and my estimate for the distance when at a second storey height was pretty off, I thought the distance changed more dramatically as the eye level got higher, but my point is still right about why the perspective in the drawing is wrong.

[Anonymous No.2716429]

Yo what up senpai. Ask someone who has actually done all the exercises in "how to draw" and "how to render" anything. I went to Art Center and these books are basically the first 4 semesters of Visual Communication Condensed.

[Anonymous No.2716432]

>>2716429
Yo, tell us what's the first 4 semesters of Visual Communicated expanded.

[Anonymous No.2716440]

>>2716432
Haha. More detailed? It's been several years now. Some harder exercises thrown in (full planes/ cars/ spaceships done in chalk that require tons of hand cut fillets.) More case by case stuff since you're applying all the exercises to homework every week that is often more imaginative.

[Anonymous No.2716441]

>>2716440
In chalk? Why do you gotta do it in chalk? Is there a reason they make you do that?

Also, can you give one example of what kind of homework you would have to do? It intrigues me as to how complex and how long it would take to do the homework, so perhaps I can make up some homework assignments for myself and improve.

[Anonymous No.2716455]

>>2716441
Sure. This is an underlay for one of those chalk drawings. Took about a night? I think? Was a while ago.

They make you do it in chalk because it is merciless and requires you to have every gradation preplanned.

[Anonymous No.2716473]

>>2716455
So that's the point of it. To plan before you draw, no wonder you guys are so good. Was this done in an early term? If I recall correctly, people can already do this at an early stage even though it doesn't look like beginner work.

[Anonymous No.2716486]

>>2716473
This was second term- so yes early on. But you would be required to execute on a level higher than this by end of first term- this is just an underlay for a rendering exercise (it's still technical and boring because your shadows most be plotted in perspective.)

[Anonymous No.2716489]

>>2716486

What did you do on higher terms? What were the most difficult exercises for you? Which you feel gave the most?

[Anonymous No.2716493]

>>2716489
After Viscom 4 you stop plotting and switch to Viscom 5: Figures. (This may have changed since I did it.) 6 and 7 are very different- they focus on production pipelines and learning 3d.

I found alot of it difficult- but it was really my thinking and time management that was causing that. Once I conquered those I had a much easier time and enjoyed things more. But that's what you go to school for.
Most helpful was what we did in Advanced Perspective- which is concurrent with Viscom 3 (So they can keep hitting you with a third term of perspective even though you're "done") That took all of the technicals we got in Vis 1 and 2 and focused on cheating and shortcutting in actual imaginative drawings and pictures- often done over 3d underlays.

[Anonymous No.2716505]

>>2716486
What's a level higher than this?
Could you explain all the "levels" perhaps? It's hard to gauge without having done it.

>>2716493
What's the difference between Viscom and Perspective anyways? They seem quite similar in the type of work they do but are always listed as separate things.

[Anonymous No.2716510]

>>2716493

Thanks man.

[Anonymous No.2716524]

>>2716505
Hmm, let me skip on writing and just bullet point what would be a higher level.
-Better design. The one I posted is very simple and clunky and gross because its easier to learn shadows on those shapes first. Higher level would be more "cool"
- Drawing is cleaner, not underlay level
-We often had to draw front and back 3/4 views of same object and make sure the proportions were maintained.

Viscom and Perspective are essentially the same. If there was a distinction- Viscom focused on perspective principles applied to single objects to learn in detail. Perspective applied more to composing full scenes with those objects in them.

>>2716510
No prob. Thanks for asking. I'm always surprised when a fifty post thread of shitposting suddenly stops when someone who has tried the stuff shows up.

[Anonymous No.2716528]

>>2716429
Do a lot of people from art center go on /ic/?

[Anonymous No.2716533]

>>2716528
Like, regularly? And posting seriously? Maybe? Who knows. I think the most regular people here are over in LAS and the Draw thread- and if you're in school you don't need to be getting crit and support online- and that's what those threads deliver. So I don't think a lot of AC people are posting around that often.
But I'm on here all the time for the laughs. People are straight stupid on this board and it gets addictive. Good advice is rare and is usually the most general stuff.

[Anonymous No.2716540]

>>2716455

>screenshot of a monitor

REEEEE WHY

[Anonymous No.2716546]

>>2716540
Old stuff is on old laptop w/ broken wifi card. no way was I gonna reach across my table for my thumb drive.

[Anonymous No.2716549]

>>2716375
The diagonals of the sidewalk do not converge at a vanishing point. You have to pay attention to diagonals to keep things lengths and widths in proper proportion.

And the height of things seems random too, middle house on the left is huge compared to the one on the right maybe plan the heights out a flat plane before you offset things.

[Anonymous No.2716554]

>>2716375
Why are people critiquing this as if it wasn't posted ironically?

[Anonymous No.2716560]

>>2716554
because /Ic/ don't know perspective.

[Anonymous No.2716562]

>>2716546

Ok :( but pls post more

[Anonymous No.2716627]

>>2716562
I'll keep answering any questions people have

[Anonymous No.2716632]

>>2716627
Do art center student use the same books as the ones in /ic/'s sticky?

[Anonymous No.2716645]

>>2716632
Theres no specific text books for any of the classes. It's all about lecture and one on one. Most of the students acquire broad libraries and study all sorts of stuff outside what's taught in the classroom. That said, I would imagine HTD and HTR are pretty much textbooks for vis 1 and 2 these days because they're more thorough than the notes I had when left.

[Anonymous No.2716649]

>>2716627
What do you do now after school?

[Anonymous No.2716653]

>>2716649
Theme parks and other themed environments. Freelance for mobile and games on nights.

[Anonymous No.2716657]

>>2716653
Do you think you could have gotten there without school?

[Anonymous No.2716660]

I cant find pdfs of either How to Draw or How to Render
Nothing on PB either

Could someone point me towards some links?

[Anonymous No.2716662]

>>2716657
Lot of variables in play. In terms of skill I think so- I'm pretty stubborn. The actual position I'm in? Not at all. I got my job through connections from school.

[Anonymous No.2716664]

>>2716645
Of course teachers would be better than any ol book. I should have figured that out. Do you still have your notes? It would cool to be able to read them and gain what knowledge you did.

[Anonymous No.2716665]

>>2716533
Did people even have free time to mess around? I feel pretty bad about not using my time more efficiently because I heard that art school students often learn quickly to do their homework the day it's assigned and they just become much better time managers. I assume they barely get like 3 hours of free time.

[Anonymous No.2716673]

>>2716664
I still have notes from alot of the classes, yeah. They range from illegible scrawl on loose sheets to carefully retyped and stapled booklets. The most intense is probably the binder from anatomy class. Thick stack of notes and anatomy tracings in that one. Most are sitting in my parent's house somewhere but I have reread most at some point after school.

>>2716665
Time management is the most important thing I learned in school. I think I could have trained myself in it but it would have taken much longer. I would have needed to be older and more desperate and spent more time as a failure to grasp the urgency for it. That said- it all depends on the person. I had very very very little free time- but I had peers who still played games and made it out alive. In the end, it's sort of a choice you make. I didn't have free time because I needed to feel like I was fucking serious so I made sure I was always working. Not the smartest way to do it, looking back. Lot of burn out.

[Anonymous No.2719054]

>>2710103
I bought this book and this is harsh but sums it up.

[Anonymous No.2719094]

>>2709310
>I say it again - work on bigger project that you'd love to finish, break it to what you need to do, get proper planning and schedule, learn as you go.

What if you are a total beginner so before you can even start working on it you will need at least 3 years of practice?

[Anonymous No.2719095]

>>2719094
Even beginners do projects, just on a smaller scale. Haven't you seen art school students? They're technically beginners of their craft but they still produce good work even on a small scale for classes such as perspective, figure drawing, etc.

[Anonymous No.2719097]

>>2719095
Well I need to learn figure drawing but how can I work on projects if without experience the figures I draw will look off?

If you learn perspective you can just make things that have correct perspective but are not complex in shape and detail. But with figure drawing something like that is not really possible is it?

[Anonymous No.2719257]

>>2719097
>>2719094

>3 years
>need to learn figure drawing

Fuck you. You haven't spend a second thinking about what you want to do. How vague can you be? What is even "figure drawing"? When I hear figure drawing I don't see shit.

What is it going to be? Pencil drawing? Inks only? Gouache? Digital? Oils? So a woman, yes? There is fuckton of drawings of women, this tells me nothing. Mysterious beauty? Fucking tell me more. Oh, she's young, unmarried, with nice hips and ass? Nigger please. What's the story, where is she? Outside? No, inside? Modern place? Oh right, tenment house, like in Europe, XIX century one, modernized for living in XXI, a la France or maybe Poland, like those big ass flats near market square. Oh, it's actually 1947 USA, apartment in Los Angeles, like in a game you played recently?

Ok, so what is this woman doing? Oh, she came from a bar drinking, she's a new starlet, came from small village in Kansas through diesel balloon transport 2 weeks ago because of course this is dieselpunk. So wait, she came from a bar, she opened a window to let a cold air seep in, she lit a cigarette, she is kneeling on the chair and reading her new role for a film, it's biggest and happiest thing recently in her life, she must write to her parents about the success. Outside there's evening and beautiful panorama of floating cars driving just above the street level (apartment is on a hill)...

Goddamn, write something like that down best. Can you draw it? No? Right, because you can hardly draw a box now.

But what you need to know to draw this?

How to draw cheap wooden, cracking under person chair made in previous century.

What you need to know about that chair? How to place it in your perspective/camera lens so you'll see figure on it and preferably window to the outside view.

[Anonymous No.2719258]

>>2719257

What else? How to construct it you donut. Reference it you fuck. Break down its structure. LEARN IT. Set is a goal - I'll learn how to make this piece of my painting.

I mean, fuck, as an artist you should be always asking yourself questions. Be curious. Research. Make your vision complete (enough)

[Anonymous No.2719264]

How To Draw helped me immensely in figure drawing. You don't have to actually draw grids every time or anything, but understanding the laws of perspective will absolutely help you to visualise 3D forms.

Personally, I only made it about half way through the book, because at a certain point it's definitely just for serious design-minded artists which doesn't suit my current needs or aspirations. But what I did read was invaluable.

Don't think of it as cheating. You're not just step-by-step plodding to a pre-determined conclusion. You have to actively think about the steps you're performing and the rules that make them work, that way you can internalise the logic and apply it intuitively to more organic art.

[Anonymous No.2719272]

>>2710103

The fact that the book didn't work for you doesn't mean it's a bad book. It's hands down the most helpful art book I've ever read, but I can certainly see how someone of a different mindset might dislike it, the same way I dislike other art resources that are held in high regard.

[Anonymous No.2719275]

>>2711303
>I'm just wondering if I should drop these books for now because of people like

How about you just read the fucking book and make up your own mind?

[Anonymous No.2719277]

>>2719258
>>2719257
>>2719097
>>2719094

I mean, shit, man, the whole point of it all is to realize some personal vision of yours. It can be fucking grandiose, but the point is - you should stick to it.

Your vision might change alongside the way, hell, you might move to other things, but the point is - to stick to what you want to do and ask and answer yourself - what I want to do.

And when your vision will seem, well..."incomplete", to say at least, and a fucking garbage that is painful to look at to throw away euphemisms - ask yourself, what went wrong. What can you change to make it more complete.

That sparkly tiger with everchanging colors from your dreams doesn't look like it is supposed to, you faggot? Ask fundamental questions - how can I capture dynamisms of colors in a moment. Maybe I should try using some optic illusion that the colors will seem to "dance" before viewers eyes? Maybe I should paint with less detail, abstract more? Oh wait, I can't do that because I don't even know how to draw "proper", non-super tiger. Let's get back to realism: reference, break structure, rotate in perspective, learn by heart.

Whole philosophy. So even if you are a total beginner - AND ESPECIALLY when you are total beginner - write down your vision, your goal, break it down, make schedule, work towards it. And learn along the way. In my example, there will be time that you will learn quite a lot and you will see that chair is ok, cupboard is ok, items on it also, desk lamp is ok, but they don't look good together? You will rethink whole drawing, learn about proper perspective, lay things again and redo from scratch, changing details to better suit you.

But you will learn it all along the way. Sure, there are fundamentals - but they are called like that because every time you will go through such process you will see that what you need is - understand structure, lay proper perspective (probably most important), keep proportions, draw proper values...

[Anonymous No.2719760]

>>2709255
>TL;DR, will grinding his exercises by making perspective grids and drawing houses and cars and shit make me better at drawing "freehand", without (or with few) perspective and construction lines, or is this my new reality?
Yes.
>and kind of takes the soul out of drawing for me.
Yes.

Drawing things using perspective grids and rules are more like constructing objects (think 2D sculpturing) than regular creative drawing. It's a different kind of enjoyment.

[Anonymous No.2719774]

>>2719272
this
I loved it, wasn't hard to follow at all.