Purpose of Gesture

[Anonymous No.2659388]

>Learn how to do gestures from Vilppu
>Can feel the pressure and imagine myself in the pose of the model/act it out
>Realize I don't really know what I'm looking for
>Feels like I have just been drawing seemingly random pressure points for almost no real reason
>Will probably do the pose I want a character to pull before I resort to pure gesture from imagination

Should I just go learn anatomy?

[Anonymous No.2659389]

>>2659388
Is there any way to get good at Gesture aside from sheer grinding?

[Anonymous No.2659391]

>>2659389
Is it just one of those things where hard-work is more important than studying smart?

[Anonymous No.2659393]

>>2659388
You can get pretty good at gesture without knowing much anatomy, but you can never get great at it without a solid foundation of anatomy.

Many teachers treat gestures as a beginner exercise or simply a warmup and I think this is a mistake. Doing lots of gestures without knowing anatomy can build bad habits and is not an effective way to learn in my opinion.

So yes, sit down and learn your anatomy. Copy out all the plates from a couple different anatomy books, cross referencing the information. After each plate, redraw it from memory and check where you went wrong to ensure you are actually learning the information. Once you have done all that you can return to gesture drawing.

[Anonymous No.2659394]

>>2659389
>sheer grinding
You won't learn shit from "sheer grinding". You need to be slow, methodical and analytical.

The purpose of gesture is to capture and convey motion, which you'd know if you paid attention at any point of your "studying".
It has nothing to do with pressure points.

[Anonymous No.2659411]

>>2659388

1. Very few people on this board know anything about gesture, which is why they refuse to challenge me to a gesture battle.
2. Keep practicing. Gesture has nothing to do with anatomy but anatomy will unlock doors for better looking dynamic poses.
3. I said dynamic pose. Notice this is different from the word gesture. What you seek isn't what you think you seek.

[Anonymous No.2659421]

>>2659411
fite me irl faggot i have over 20 confirmed gestures drawings
i will feel your pose so hard ur mom will give birth to vilppu

[Anonymous No.2659423]

>>2659411
>Gesture has nothing to do with anatomy
False. Gesture is a result of anatomy relating to other anatomy.

[Anonymous No.2659424]

>>2659423

Oh? You dare challenge my gospel?
>>2659421
anytime anyplace

[Anonymous No.2659432]

>>2659394
>slow, methodical and analytical
>30 seconds per pose

I agree with you though, I don't think I learned anything about gesture until I slowed down and took my time to work out how to communicate each pose.

But I don't blame newbies for failing at this, since everyone keeps telling them to rush though while saying shit like "feel the energy"

[Anonymous No.2659434]

>>2659424
I'm in wellington come at me
i'll rek you so hard the wallabies will look good in comparison

[Anonymous No.2659436]

>>2659394
I'm calling it a pressure point, but I'm actually thinking about how the pressure moves through the form. I'm fairly certain that's motion in its basis.

As Vilppu has shown, it's like water moving through a river.

[Anonymous No.2659440]

>>2659434
Wow...you're really creeping me out now because I literally live near wellington.

[Anonymous No.2659442]

>>2659432
>30 seconds per pose
I'm almost convinced that's a meme. Vilppu even says that it should take 15 seconds, then says to go slow, and if you look at his demos (just drawing without explaining) he goes over 60 almost every time.

Huston doesn't even pretend to give a fuck, he'll spend 10 seconds feeling out a single curve and then another 20 making it onto a cylinder

[Anonymous No.2659443]

I'm not OP but I'm having trouble doing 1 minute gestures. They're way too fast for me and I can't put anything down on the paper. A solution for me has been to choose a smaller amount of lines. I still want to get to the point where I can place a couple of form lines before the timer runs out though.

This would be impossible if I never learned how to draw from my arm.

[Anonymous No.2659445]

>>2659443
I think I only have like 1 good gesture on there since I'm horrible under pressure.

[Anonymous No.2659450]

>>2659440
kek I'm actually in Auckland

[Anonymous No.2659452]

>>2659450
Oh, I thought you meant wellington florida.

[Anonymous No.2659454]

>>2659443
>>2659445
Also, Steve Huston straight up says that the point isn't to go fast. He says it's so you pick the important lines.

[Anonymous No.2659457]

>>2659452
>he thinks i'm a filthy yank

[Anonymous No.2659461]

>>2659443
Is this a good one?
If the point of a gesture is to tell a story, does this hit the nail on the head?

[Anonymous No.2659466]

>>2659461

Are those supposed to be furry anthro legs? Looks a bit off balance desu

[Anonymous No.2659470]

>>2659466
Is that prevalent through all of my legs?
I kind of glance at them and imagine the pressure a bit too much.

[Anonymous No.2659484]

>>2659470
There is no pressure for you to imagine, stop saying stupid shit.

[Anonymous No.2659490]

>>2659470

Looking at the other sheet, yes, it does seem to pop up here and there.It kinda looks like those leg protesthesis disabled athletes can run with

[Anonymous No.2659497]

>>2659484
Pressure/pull in the gesture.

[Anonymous No.2659504]

>>2659497
There is no pressure or pull, you're drawing the rhythms.

[Anonymous No.2659506]

>>2659388
the real purpose of gesture is to prepare you for the coming gesture battle.

[Anonymous No.2659510]

>>2659506
The day Vilppu will feel the Sun.

[Anonymous No.2659520]

>>2659504
Yet there is a definite pull/pressure to be felt.
Vilppu himself said to take the pose to understand it better.

You're full of shit, dude.

[Anonymous No.2659521]

>>2659504
Yet there is a definite pull/pressure to be felt. Gesture is just the movement from form to form.
Vilppu himself said to take the pose to understand it better and to feel the pull of that gesture throughout your body. He even draws a river diagram and shows you exactly what you're looking for when you draw the human body.

You're full of shit, dude.

[Anonymous No.2659523]

>>2659504
The rhythm is just leading the eye through the underlying pressure.

[Anonymous No.2659541]

>>2659521
>He even draws a river diagram and shows you exactly what you're looking for when you draw the human body.
Yes. The rhythm. That's exactly what the river shows. You find a rhythm, whatever it may be, the head and neck, the spine, whatever, and you move to the opposing rhythm. Literally the river.
There is no pushing and pulling. The gesture of the upper arm doesn't change based on what the triceps or biceps is doing, because it has no relation to pressure or pull or whatever you call it. It changes based on it's position relative to the viewer, that's it.

The only pressure you use is when the ribcage pushes the core against the hipbone. That's it.

If you want to keep being confused by gesture, keep it up, otherwise use your fucking head.

[Anonymous No.2659545]

>>2659541

Well there can be a push if you collectively use a shape to define a pose rather than using line initially. You can, in theory, bend the rhythm line like a pirates hook if that's what you feel to feel the trust of the torso jetting forward, it doesn't always have to be snake lines if you follow the vilppu method. It can be zig-zag, it can be yo-yo, it can be loop-de-loop, it's all in the feel.

[Anonymous No.2659556]

>>2659545
>it's all in the feel
No, it's all in the systematic approach, which is exactly what Vilppu says in the book.

What you're describing comes later. He's not going to learn what gesture is if he bases his approach and studies on a misconstrued notion of what Vilppu is doing.

>learn the rhythms
>map out rhythms by flowing from rhythm to opposing rhythm (which is literally what he is saying when he shows the river bit)
>cross-contour
>contain simple volumes

That's what he tells you to do, step by fucking step. yet people always seem to fall into the same trap of mystical thinking because he tells you to feel the pose (ie actively think about what the figure is doing).

Once you have that down, you can go on all the crazy gesture adventures with feelings and zig-zags and yo-yos you want, it doesn't matter, but if you have no idea how to draw a fucking gesture in the first place, as
>Realize I don't really know what I'm looking for
>Feels like I have just been drawing seemingly random pressure points for almost no real reason
in the op clearly indicates, you stick to the fucking manual and learn.
Doesn't matter what manual.

[Anonymous No.2659565]

These were some done by myself a few years back.

http://imgur.com/gallery/11w2W

Its hard to get a grasp of gestures. I agree that anatomy plays a huge role on the whole. What also helps is familiarity of the model as well. After a while you get a feel for it.

[Anonymous No.2659568]

Gestures are a meme, they have no purpose

[Anonymous No.2659569]

>>2659541
So let me get this straight,

when he's mapping out the water pressure, you're not supposed to be looking for the same sort of thing in the human body?

I think I'm a bit confused now. I have a feeling I might be doing it right, and there's just some confusion. I also might be doing it wrong. I've been cross examining my gestures with Proko's and Vilppu's and they almost match-up.

These are my gestures

>>2659461
>>2659443

[Anonymous No.2659571]

You retards overthink this shit way too much.

[Anonymous No.2659573]

>>2659556
>>2659545
Since I feel my point got lost in that rant, what I'm trying to say is this:

In the general sense, it doesn't matter how you draw gesture, or what abstract thinking you employ.

But when you're trying to understand how Vilppu in particular draws, and reverse-engineer it so you can internalize the process, you will not succeed if you base it on him "feeling pressure", because that's not what he's doing, and it's not what he's drawing, and you when you try to mimic his physical actions based on your "feeling the pressure", you will fail to connect the two ideas because they are not actually related.

[Anonymous No.2659579]

>>2659569
>That's exactly what the river shows. You find a rhythm, whatever it may be, the head and neck, the spine, whatever, and you move to the opposing rhythm. Literally the river.
>map out rhythms by flowing from rhythm to opposing rhythm (which is literally what he is saying when he shows the river bit)
>when he's mapping out the water pressure, you're not supposed to be looking for the same sort of thing in the human body?
Anon, you're honestly making me angry now.

There is no pressure. He is following THE FLOW of the water, which is the same thing as the RHYTHMS of the human body, ie the longest curves.

[Anonymous No.2659584]

>>2659579
Yeah but the water bounces off the "curves" through flow direction, ie pressure.

The pressure is rhythm, and rhythm is pressure.

[Anonymous No.2659585]

>>2659579
>>2659584
It's the same thing with the human body just through forms. I don't understand why you can't just look at the gesture and decide whether it's correct or not.

[Anonymous No.2659588]

>>2659584
No it isn't, you stupid shit.

[Anonymous No.2659591]

>>2659585
You know it isn't correct.

[Anonymous No.2659592]

>>2659571
Are you implying it is wrong to over analyze why things work the way they do? How do you study without asking why? My friend it is you who is the supreme retard-san.
>and reverse-engineer it
Stop the fuck right there. Don't reverse engineer shit. Just do it the way he is doing it and when you draw for yourself that is when you can experiment on your own notation aka gesture. As the other anon mentioned once you understand why it works then you can do as you please and keep learning new methods.

[Anonymous No.2659594]

Read "Force" by Michael Mattesi before you even think of saying a single fucking thing about gesture because I'm sick of mouth-breathers flooding out of the beginner thread thinking their 30 second scribbles are gesture drawings

Vilppu is great but he's shit at explaining it

[Anonymous No.2659597]

>>2659594
Michael Brown is advanced stuff for when you conquer anatomy and want to draw >dynamically<. There is more to Mikes force than just gesture; it employs a lot of the fundamentals that one must go over first before touching it.

Mike doesn't even like using the word "gesture" he hates it and abolishes it from his classroom. And how dare you say Vilppu is shit at explaining it he explains it very clearly. Not Gods fault you were born legit stupid.

[Anonymous No.2659602]

>>2659591
Thank you.
I'll go back and watch Vilppu, and I'll keep in my mind what you said.

[Anonymous No.2659604]

>>2659591
but first, post your gestures.

[Anonymous No.2659608]

>>2659602
Use a shammy, and look for his demo videos where he uses it. Draw only the longest axis curves, the gesture will draw itself. Then use a marker or something to cross-contour and "contain" the volumes.

There are Vilppu's ink gesture demos on youtube.

If you still don't get it, use Huston's process, see if it helps.

[Anonymous No.2659616]

>>2659604
I was going to post a shitty stickman, but I can't be fucked.

I'm not your fucking mom, I don't give a shit if you learn.
Vilppu, who has what, 40-50 years of drawing experience, wrote two books filled with gestures, and probably recorded over 50 hours of him showing you how to do it, and you still don't get it. My efforts here are almost certainly wasted regardless of what I showed you.

tl;dr: no

[Anonymous No.2659622]

GESTURE BATTLE

[Anonymous No.2659637]

>>2659616
I have a bad feeling about you.
You're scared to blow your cover of mis-information by posting a gesture drawing ripped from google.

[Anonymous No.2659643]

>>2659637
>>2659616
shutup both of you and fight me

[Anonymous No.2659644]

>>2659637
You got me, I'm trying to sabotage your amazing progress because I'm intimidated.

Now that my ruse has been foiled, I shall disappear from the world of drawing, and infiltrate one not populated by people as clever as you, so that I may spread misinformation unfettered.

[Anonymous No.2659670]

i never ended up getting crit on mine last time I posted but I just wanted to know if im doing it wrong or I should keep trying the same way,, I know the proportions are off on plenty I was trying to get the movements and pose ty in advance ic

[Anonymous No.2659680]

>>2659670
>stick figures

[Anonymous No.2659685]

>>2659670

Some are going in the right direction but for the love of god please stop doing that smudgy shit it looks awful

ps. make the heads smaller, they're toddler size now

[Anonymous No.2659689]

>>2659644
Anyway, I'm back.
Sorry for being an ass I've just been working on figure drawing for about a month or 2 solid now. I've got Aspergers so I can't handle criticism all that well.

Thanks for waking me up to the garbage I've been doing. I think I've been doing weird quasi-gestures, and I've been feeding it by sometimes drawing the longest contour in the legs and legs alone.

I guess it's back to Steve Huston.

[Anonymous No.2659704]

>>2659644
Are you kidding me you fucking squid? Dump it inside me dude.

[Anonymous No.2660028]

>>2659592
Never gonna make it

[Anonymous No.2660273]

>>2659411
>which is why they refuse to challenge me to a gesture battle.
You're fucking autistic as hell.

Let me guess you were top of the class in the gesture drawing school?
Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.2660417]

>>2660273

>obviously can't into gesture

[Anonymous No.2660633]

>>2659450
I live near Auckland. Studying anatomy currently.

[Anonymous No.2660653]

>>2660273

it's a meme you dip

[Anonymous No.2660678]

>>2660653
>it's a meme

NGMI

[Anonymous No.2660732]

I feel like when I try to do 30 second "gestures" that I don't really learn anything. However when I sit here and do 2 and 5 minute gestures I am able to make more correct decisions and and lines.