/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

The thing about traditional tones is that isn't cost effective for anyone in the West. Companies should produce them in North America however because it costs too much to import atm. There's always computers but that's far less tactile and it doesn't always have the pop art sensibility.

The Kaimei ink I used to buy actually went up to $60.00 -- last October it was $9.00!

>>4775776
>>4776181
Yeah, with how much it is to import them buying screentones is not worth it.
HOWEVER making them at home is cheap and super simple if you have something like Clip studio, a printer, and some of these lying around.
At 25 sheets for 20 bucks it's a really easy choice to make.

>>4775776
Is there a difference between natural and synthetic charcoal?
Also why are art supplies so fucking expensive?
20$ for a set of graphite pencils??

>>4776181
>$60.00
that is a silly price for a bottle of sumi ink.

>Tfw im finally buying Babby's First Watercolor supplies after weeks of exhaustive research.

Its finally coming together lads. I'm at peace.

>>4776576
Did you go all out buying those premium watercolours?

>>4776441
It's the drawing sol ink, I've wanted to try lettering sol but it's never offered for import here. Maybe Amazon.com or JetPens has it.

>>4775776
Clip Studio Paint. It's not practical in any other way. People do their halftones either with Photoshop or Clip, it's almost all digital nowadays.

>>4776576
Praying you don't fall for any meme things like student grade.

>>4776277
Interesting how does that work is there nothing printed on their labels ?

>>4776421
It's often the lead quality, or darkness... Japan uses more graphite than chalk, America, Britain, Germany and Czechoslovakia all essentially make a Chalk-graphite pencil -- which does nothing for artists in the lower grades (which might be all you'd find at at office supply store or many art stores). So if you're paying a premium price for a 2b koh-i-noor pencil you're probably being ripped off worse than if you just bought a set of hi-uni HB or B leads.

>>4776576
Watercolor gave me cancer. Good luck anon

>>4776920
Also keep in mind that Miyazaki might use 3B or 4B as an animation layout pencil...something that would only be possible with a 7B for someone like Jack Hamm, for example. This suggests that we've had shoddier art supplies for some time and have been paying for chalk at least since the 1970's. This is probably because the West has so few dedicated art pencil brands over writing pencils. Staedtler for example doesn't have a clear pencil brand for artists, I'm sure the blue type pencil is marketed toward writings and maybe a few architects and graphic designers but certainly they offer nothing specifically geared towards animators and sketch artists.

>>4776908
imo find a whiter paper and it wont matter what ink because everything will look blackest on top.

>>4776920
progresso?

>>4776576
I got some watercolor and gouache and it makes me feel retarded. I won't give up though, good luck anon!

>>4776915
It's really just blank sticky piece of paper that you can print on.
here's a couple that I made in like 10 minutes.

>>4776905
>>4776910

Im grabbing some full pans from Russia, called Nevskaya Palitra. It looks decent enough for the pandemic pricing and I like the vibrancy. Most of the colors are decently lightfast, I think.

>>4776924
I pussyfooted around the medium by trying watercolor pencils first. Im better with colored pencils, so the transition was less fraught. Theyre not bad if you wanna give em a whirl. They dont require a lot of water, so they can work on even the cheapest of papers.

>>4777107
Based dual-wielder! I wanna try gouache too, eventually. Thank you, were all gonna make it.

>>4778120
>I pussyfooted around the medium by trying watercolor pencils first.
How do you use them, anon? I'm very comfortable with watercolors but watercolor pencils feel so rough to use. They don't lay uniformly like normal watercolors do, they're sloppy.

>>4778605
Not him, but it's best to think of watercolor pencils as water soluable pencils, not watercolors in pencil form.
Colored pencil artists will often use mineral spirits to dissolve regular colored pencils to get a more even coverage on initial layers. With watercolor pencils you can simply use water for that. Then you can add details, texture, etc on top with just the pencil and no water.

>>4778605
>>4779038
Forgot to mention, you'll want to use a smoother watercolor paper when working with wc pencils, not a regular cold press one.

>>4776181
>>4776441
deleter paper is now almost 30$ a pack

>>4777631
clear Avery shipping labels, very nice... I hope my office supply store can get them in

>>4779062
Deleter paper was always fairly expensive... I had a good price several months back though, $15 for A4.

>>4779179
that's with shipping to NA

>>4779062
>deleter paper
which is just smooth finish paper thats slightly thicker with 'manga' on its packaging. unless you desperately need the print guides, some sort of premium laser copy paper does the same job.

I've been collecting dry pigments.
I meade some lead white atwo years ago.
I've bought some red lead from Cornelissen & Sons.
I also bought some Paris Green from a fireworks supply, but I took it to hazardous waste diposal after I became too frightened to keep it in my house.

>>4775776
Letraset has the biggest and the best

>>4779200

Not that guy but wouldn’t any kind of bristol be exactly the same?

>>4779370

Why do you even bother with paris green? I get lead white because there really isn’t quite a replacement for that, especially when painting skin but paris green? Today’s easily available greens are all much more stable, better and not as toxic pigments. You’re a fucking retard.

>>4779392
I think the quality has declined over the years. I have some old board from my uncle who passed back in 2002. I't's better than the stuff I bought back in 2018.

>>4779398
Opportunity was knocking. I bought it specifically because it was hard to get, but I didn't feel comfortable after holding on to a pound of the stuff.

>>4778605

Back again- like color pencils, you have to start with VERY light layers of color and then add water over those. This will effectively make each composition a series of glazes, moving from light to dark, very similar for watercolor.
I would not use more than two colors per layer though, or you run the risk of making a huge mess.
You can use hot press, or very smooth paper. But I found that I got my best results using cold-press or rough paper. Like color pencils, watercolor pencils do their best when you have a slightly textured surface, so the pigment has something to grip onto. The little divots in the surface can grab more medium and it makes it easier to stack more on top.
On rougher paper, I can get a maximum of 6 layers with very light glazes. With hot press, I can only get 4 layers.
Heres a pic of a demo I did on my cheapest Canson paper, very smooth surface. I used some very cheap, Chinese brand water color pencils for this.
Of course, pencil quality matters, too. I gambled with these cheap pencils, and got some VERY strong pigments without a high amount of wax-binder. Not every brand is the same. It might be whats impeding you work.

>>4779392
No. Bristol is a specific kind of paper - laminated layers of cotton or linen, for rigidity, with a smooth finish. Deleter is just standard paper with a smooth finish, and is most likely wood pulp.
Bristol would work the same way, but it's two completely different paper types.

>>4779600

I forgot, but do not use mineral spirits on watercolor pencils like that other guy mentioned.
Regular color pencils and some cheaper watercolor pencils use higher amounts of wax and other binding agents to keep the pigment together, so people use mineral spirits to help the color disperse better on paper.
With watercolor pencils, WATER is what your using to help the pigment disperse, so mineral spirits are a big NO for use with this medium. If you encounter problems with your pencils, the quality of the pigment or the type of paper is most likely to blame.

>>4779663

I meant that it would work the same yes, i know it's different things. So fuck paying out the ass for subpar weeb paper if you can get better stuff for the same price

>>4779200
I want the print guides. Also is it that easy to find B4 printer paper?

Someone recommend online art supplies in Australia?
Especially looking for quality papers and paints.

>500 sheets
Wowza. I don't know if I want something thinner than Kent paper tho. The grid marks are part of what keeps a manuscript looking clean.

>>4779663
The nice thing about Bristol is that it's acid-free. Acid-free paper should be the standard for all printing and illustrative materials. Wood pulp rots too quickly and is effectively obsolete.

I love using this snowman brush pen (felt tip) for sketching and gesture drawing, but the tip is too big for me. Anyone can recommend the similar pen but with smaller/finer tip?

>>4779922
You could go for A3 and trim it down to B4 yourself. I prefer to just mark a boundary around with a ruler. doing so helps me get down to drawing too, like that thing where if youre intimidated by a blank canvas then dirty it up.
>>4779933
the heavier the paper the more resistant it should be to heavy eraser usage. 65lb (200gsm) minimum imo.

>>4779931
theartshop
seniorart
artsuppliesaustralia
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cartridge-Drawing-Paper-200GSM-100-x-Sheets-Ream-Acid-Free-HEAVY-CARTRIDGE-PAPER/302759220497?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

>>4780263
Try tombow fudenosuke, it comes in medium and small and it's been my go-to brush pen for 3 years now. They're very easy to control, and waterproof.

>this and a few packs of wooden school pencils, or better, pens
t. all you need

>>4780864
Based

>>4780864
this guy knows what he's talking about

>>4780864
>he doesn't use a charcoal fire stick and a cave wall

>>4776181
>Companies should produce them in North America however because it costs too much to import atm.
And sell them to who?

>>4780937
Internally, obviously
That guy doesn't understand economics though

>>4780923
kek

>>4780847
Noted. Thanks anon

>>4780923
>>4780864
its funny, if you decided to paint in a cave most probably you are not going to find one, and if you find one its going to be illegal or forbiden to paint in it and even if you paint there is a chance to people destroying your work
but your best solution to the "cheapest" way to create art its buying something from a corporation
:^)

Is Tomoe River worth it? I'm getting really frustrated with all the shit papers I've been using, and I don't plan on wasting any more of the new sheening Diamine inks

>>4780523
>the heavier the paper the more resistant it should be to heavy eraser usage.
I've found Japanese comic paper to be very good in that department. It erases well, it's not too heavy like a board, or too thin like print paper, it occupies a happy medium. Someone should make an American equivalent already.

>>4781478
I can vouch for this DR paper, although it's harder than Derita it feels more archival. The things that bug me about it is that it's less easy to draw on it feels like it has a laminate quality and obviously no grid markers for comic panels.

>>4781478
Cardstock?

>>4780529
Thanks. I'll try them out.
Good ol' ebay...

Does mixed media paper dry out felt tip pens or no? Nothing online will answer me and I'm getting pissed off. I need something that actually explains the pros and cons of different papers without being obvious shilling

>>4781478
the surface of the paper, sure. but if youre not paying attention and you go near the edge without it being taped down... thats where heavier paper can save you.
>>4782254
cardstock usually has a particular direction its grain goes, if you use markers it can show up as a stripey look. might also have to be careful which ink you ink with too, lest there be feathering. i find gouache and acrylic go well with cardstock though. as long as youre not slathering a piece in paint and just an illustration.

>>4783236
It sucks them dry in my experience but depends on the paper. I don't think mixed media paper is good for much of anything at all and would avoid it.

>>4778120
Thanks anon, i found those watercolors again in Alibaba.
Cretacolor are good pencils btw

>>4783236
Yes, it will. For the more textured varieties, it will also ruin the brush, so don't think you're safe if you're using something that can be refilled. Could you tell us the specific pens you use? I'm sure someone uses the same thing and can share the paper they use.

>>4783439
No problem, man! I'll try out Cretacolor.
Those look pretty cool.

What kind of pencils do you guys use for everyday sketching?

>>4784996
Staedler Mars Lumograph or Tombow mono when I can get them.

I tried Lyra, but the graphite seems to have impurities in it, and keeps grabbing the paper. Might be just a bad batch.

has anyone had mold form on their clay body? I've had my piece covered for about a week and a half with minimal moisture addition and air contact. is this a material thing or is it I'm-a-dumb-nigger thing?

>>4784996

I use a 2H by Dick Blick Studio.

>>4778120
Are they decent anon? I wasted 10$ for some no name brand and ended up throwing them in the trash, they smell horrible and are grainy as hell. I got a couple of online water colour courses and would like to start. I have been suggested Kremer, Sennelier, Windsor and Newton, and Schmincke as brands for the course. Anything decent out of these brands under 100$? If I really got into it I would not mind jumping in and getting pigments on my own to make my paints, but as of now I can’t justify a bigger investment, especially not after getting a new (screened) tablet after months of saving up.

I need a new sketchbook, my current sketchbook is full. I'm a beginner so I don't know shit and I still draw like shit. What should I buy, /ic/?

>>4785379

At the stage you're at I would say get a ream of cheapass printer paper.

>>4785222

Sounds like your house has a humidity problem.

>>4785386
I like drawing in a sketchbook, though. I've drawn on printer paper and it quickly gets lost. Plus printer paper makes me feel like I'm 8 and sneaking some paper out from my dad's fax machine.

>>4785400

Then why are you asking on here. Fuck off and buy whatever.

>>4785420
There weren't any recommendations in the sticky and I was curious to what /ic/ anons prefer. Figured I'd ask in a relevant thread.

>>4785420
Pyw crab.

>>4785446
go to art or office supply store. pick up cheap sketch book.
you dont need special paper unless youre painting in it.
some of those dollar store books' paper can be real crap though. bumpy and soft, every line making a mark that shows through.
avoid those and youre good.

>>4785471

Here you go

>>4785379
do you need it to sketch only or do you also use tools like ink pens, watercolors, pencils? Add these type of details when asking about sketchbooks

>>4785292
My new watercolors and brushes will arrive tomorrow, so I cant recommend them exactly 100%. But! I arrived at my choice of White Nights (by Nevskaya Palitra) by comparing price, lightfastness, vibrancy and transparency. All of which were fairly high for the amount of product offered. I couldnt turn down 12 full pans for 24$ or 21 for under 50$ (on USA Amazon, btw). Thats a steal compared to the flagship brands you mentioned in you post.
I had my eye on Winsor Newton Cotman before I did my deep dive on research, but man. Even Winsor only give you measly half-pans for a high price. And even hobby-grade, Japanese brands like Koi, for example, really trounce on Windsor in terms of color vibrancy for the similar price bracket.
Its tough to choice to make.
If it were me deciding all over again, I'd definitely look at Youtube and watch people compare the brands youre interested in and decide what youre willing to pay for level of commitment. Thats part of why I started with watercolor pencils- to see if I liked it before taking the plunge.
I havent heard of Kremer, but you cant really fail with other brands youve mentioned, since theyve been making paint for a long time.
Id say the biggest factor is deciding the size you want to work at. If you want to make big paintings- go for tube sets with basic, warm and cool primary colors with the highest lightfastness you can afford. If you want to work smaller, pre-made pans are what you want.
Youtube channels like Teoh Yi Chie, Watercolors by Jay Quesada (ignore his pet birds), and makocino review and demo a lot of professional grade and student-grade brands. I would check their channels to get a more in-depth look at what catches your eye.

>>4785614

Correction:
>" makoccino "

With two c's. Its 4 am where I am.
Fuckkk.

>>4785292
Those are all good brands of watercolor, if you're in the US Daniel Smith or M.Graham might be easier (and cheaper) to find and are also professional fine art quality.
As for your budget, that should be plenty to get you started but most pre-packaged sets aren't that great in terms of color selection. I'd recommend getting the Daniel Smith essentials set plus a tube of burnt sienna, that should be enough to get you started since these are the basic mixing colors most people use. You can pick up more colors open stock based on what you feel you need and what subjects you paint, but try to focus on learning how to mix before you overwhelm yourself with a huge collection of paints.
Since these are tube paint's you'll also need a palette. I like Mijello's 18 well Fusion palette, or you could get an empty watercolor tin and pans on amazon. Tube watercolor is generally formulated the same as pans and you can always rewet paint in your palette again, so don't worry about wasting it.

>>4785292
Holbein watercolors are cheap and good enough. W&N only go for the professional line, Cotman is a no go zone.

>>4785614
Kremer mainly sell pigments for making your own paints, ther pre-made watercolors are... interesting? Very highly pigmented, almost too much so at times. Very granulating. A good option if you like the unique colors and textures you can get from handmade watercolors but don't want to make any yourself as they're much more affordable than other hand-made paints. Not sure I would recommend them to a beginner though, since many people either don't like heavy granulation when starting out, or find it difficult to deal with. Then again, if that's exactly what you're looking for, they're great.

>>4785292
>>4785614
Teoh and In Liquid Color both did reviews on Kremer watercolors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_kbgb0k-Nc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iURHHOe4hYE

>>4785549
nta but i was looking into getting a new sketchbook as well
do you have any recommendations for something that can handle brush pens/watercolors? all ive used before are 100gm sketchbooks for pencil sketches but anything remotely wet bleeds through

>>4786083
Sketchbook made properly for watercolors can get quite expensive, I use mostly moleskine watercolor series or, if you don't mind binder, winsor and newton's

>>4786083
I wouldn't recommend Moleskines, I think Pentalic is a bit better. Watercolor sketchbooks get pricey to the point making your own with some coptic stitching or something may be more economic.

>>4785549
I am that anon, I'm purely looking for sketching purposes. I've casually sketched/drawn my whole life but I'm looking to buckle down this sketchbook and actually learn. They've all been shitty dollar store sketchbooks, notebooks, printer paper, memo pads... looking to upgrade for something intended for sketching.

If there are any recommendations for sketching pencils, I'm open to that, too. I've sketched with mechanical pencils and Ticanderoga's my whole life.

So, sketchbook and sketch pencil recs for now, please.

>>4785388
that would make sense. I'm going to excise the area and spray it with some hydrogen peroxide. thanks anon.

>>4786140
found a pentalic 300gsm a5 book online
think i might try it out since its under $20
might look into book binding down the line but for now itll do
thanks anon

>>4786140
I really like the etchr sketchbooks, its expensive but cheaper than something thats handbound. Plus you can buy in bulk

bump

>Ordered some cheap fountain pen to draw with
>It’s shit (to draw with, writes ok)
Guess I am back to using zebra nibs with my dipping pen. Which ones would you suggest guys? I am really liking ink as medium, coming from a pencil /beg/ (still beg, but am drawing more now that I have ink).

>>4790073
What did you order? I use Noodler's ink and it's great for writing and drawing. I have a brown, black, and blue. I also put the blue into my brush pen.

Do those wrist pain braces actually help at all or should I just slap a salonpas on and call it a day?

>>4790108
It says Hong dian on the pen itself. I too have Noodler, but also Waterman and deleter (which is currently expensive and does not work with fountain pens, Noodler is a better choice for now). I was not referring to the ink though, but to the pen itself. I heard good things about Pilot and another brand for their pens, but I will hold out for now. Once I finish my nibs I will consider what to buy.

>>4790191
Oh I misread, I read "fountain pen ink". I know some people recommend a lot of cheap pens but I've not had any luck with them. I really like ink too but fountain pens and dip pens are completely different animals. Some Pilots are good, Sailor, Lamy, and Noodler's Flex Nib pens are all pretty affordable. I would stay away from the Pilot Metropolitan, in my experience the quality is all over the place.

>>4790073
>It’s shit (to draw with, writes ok)
No line variation? if yes you can fit g pen nib on your pen, it's relevantly easy.
Do you baby your nibs? like: dip in ink > draw until ink ends > dip in ink water > wipe it with paper towel > step one. Or just dip in ink when needed?

Also found pic related in local store, looks and werks like zebra

Want to purchase my first brush to ink with. I believe I must get a Round 1 size Kolinsky sable but is there anything else I should get/know so I can get the most out of the brush?

Also what do YOU use as an inkwell. Been thinking of getting one as well.

>>4790931
I just clean them once I finish working with them and dry them out with a paper towel, it’s a cheap zebra kit I found online. I saw there are gold plated that last MUCH longer online, but I still have 8 nibs left and they are doing fine. Now, regarding the pen, not only it lacks line variation, it kinda “stops” in the middle of the line once I go beyond two inches of length. It’s as if the feed cannot keep up. I tried separating the feed from the nib but it’s as if it was soldered. I have done futher research and may go for a Noodler Konrad/Ahab or Twsbi eco, and then change their nibs if they are not to my likings. Thanks for the nib advice though, will look into the Leo!

>>4791168
1 is a tiny brush. At first, I would say to avoid a real Kolinsky sable and get a few good synthetics to find out what you like. Even a Pentel Aquash is fine for inking with. Ink brushes become disposable eventually due to the abrasiveness of India ink no matter how well you take care of them (you can use the more beat up ones for special effects).

You don't really need an ink well, a plastic water bottle cap can work well enough for a diluted mix or straight from the bottle otherwise. You don't want to have a lot of ink out at once because it will dry up (this obviously depends on the size of work you're dealing with). You want small containers/cups/dishes that you aren't going to knock over, and only pour out what you need. An eyedropper/pipette is recommended.

>>4791168
1 is really tiny, I'd go for a 2 at least. Don't let ink get into the ferrule and wash it out with water immediately if it happens by accident. Don't let it lay around with ink still in the hairs when you aren't using it, especially if you're using waterproof ink.

Red sable is cheaper than kolinsky but still performs much better than synthetics.

>>4785614
damn anon if I spent this amount of time being autistic about supplies I would never have learned to paint.

Just get arches paper and like holbein or w&n professional.

i like those water brush pens. they keep a point. i fill them with fountain pen ink.

>>4791211
I got a collection of brush pens but heard I might as well practice with the classic for the long run, but I probably should use them.

>>4791276
I'll check if my local art store has red sable, thanks

>>4785638
The cotmans aren't really that bad though if you know how to use them. I buy Cotman in the cheaper more basic pigments like sienna, black, ultramarine, umber, etc. to subsidize buying expensive pigments like cobalt and cadmium based colors. They work fine if you use them that way.

I also shop similarly for oils, there's no use buying expensive titanium white for instance since I go through it 5 times faster than other colors, I've used most of a huge tube up since march while I still have plenty of a year old tube of cadmium red.

>>4791293

Yeah I tend to fixate and analyse things I like wayy to much, but I feel like the autism has payed off this time.
Also, that post was about helping someone else. lol
I hope he got what he needed from my 4 AM rambling.

Arches and W&N are on my Amazon list, but the price has soared for them recently. I am using some cotton rag paper made in China, right now.

>>4785652
So he did have reviews on these after all! Nice.

>>4775776
Any other digital painters contemplating moving to traditional? I'm not a beginner (at digital) for the record. I've started to question why I'm doing digital at all when all my favorite artists are trad and I've spent so much time trying to make brushes and texture overlays etc. to imitate physical media. It just feels fake and hollow. I don't even like most digital art.

>>4791187
I found that consistency of ink is everything, I even made my ink not bleed on printer paper.

Diluting water based ink is easy - add water,
to make it thiccer you need to add gum arabic/wait till water evaporates, experiment until you find perfect consistency.

For fountain pen you can compensate by moving the feed up and down and moving the nib in the same faction until it works, but it seems your pen is not adjustable so you can try messing with ink it self (not the whole bottle).

>Noodler Konrad/Ahab or Twsbi eco
noodler's ebonite feed is really convenient in franken pen making, you can heat sit the feed and make channel of it deeper to supply more ink to flex nib
>>4791293
>anon just get the most expensive stuff duh
if money wasn't a concern he wouldn't do the research

don't die

>>4785400
Art stores usually have a huge array of sketchbooks. Then just go with the store brand. I could be dead wrong but I'd feel better going for a dedicated art store brand vs target brand.

>>4775776
Does anyone know which paper comic artists used to both ink and water colour the pages?
aquarelle paper is too rough and bristol board is too smooth.
any ideas or suggestions?

>>4793643
Maybe illustration board. You can do light washes on bristol, hot press watercolor paper is smooth.

>>4793643
It's possible to paint on bristol board, but you have to learn to work very differently from painting on watercolor paper. Cotton paper is hell to ink on even if it's smooth because it sucks up so much moisture. I would probably go for an inexpensive hot press watercolor paper.

>>4793643

This looks like alcohol marker to me.

>>4794181
Yes, that's what it looks like.

bump