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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique


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4102882 No.4102882 [Reply] [Original]

Im intresten on knowing anon's art progresion over the years.
Share if you have a redrew piece, or just sketch something if you like.
Because i think its important to see you own progres to improve.
Here is mine from 2013 - 2019

Do you constantly check out your old art and compare them?
What would you change in the way you where learning back then?

>> No.4102884

>>4102882

oh my god another one
guys I REALLy dont wanna end up like this

>> No.4102886

>>4102884
what do you mean anotherone? i know i suck at this shiet, but whats your point

>> No.4102899
File: 277 KB, 805x913, compare.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4102899

>>4102882
heres an old one i did. A few months after I started using more references

>> No.4102901

>>4102899
got one that shows yearly progress?

>> No.4102912
File: 921 KB, 1372x649, 11443222.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4102912

>> No.4102932
File: 965 KB, 1776x1136, prog.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4102932

>>4102882
Some days I feel I've progressed a great deal, other days I feel shitty about it. I've gone from liking the Yoko drawing, to hating it, to thinking it's maybe okay. Don't think I'd change anything, looking back. The mistakes are part of the process.
Right now I'm trying to get outside my comfort zone of "single anime girl facing forward," and it's hard but I think I'm making progress.

>> No.4102952

>>4102912
nice progress! im extremely slow at improving, how long did it take to make, on the recent one?

>> No.4102961

>>4102932
i really like the monkey and i love the girl from june 2018. the colors (mostly the shadows) and face on the last one are a little dull but i can see improvement, mainly on anatomy. keep at it anon

>> No.4102965

>>4102952
not sure, two days maybe

>> No.4102971

>>4102932
It's neat seeing your progress, fwiw I think you're heading in a good direction. Your recent stuff in /alt/ has been a lot more unique and inspired, I think you just need to keep feeling out your style and step out to doing more complex pieces

>> No.4102992
File: 1.03 MB, 1300x806, stair perspective.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4102992

>>4102961
>>4102971
Thank you. Yeah I'm really just bored with single character illustrations. Trying out a piece with multiple characters and more complex perspective right now. Some notes that may be of use to somebody.

>> No.4103034
File: 89 KB, 1150x693, 14-19.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4103034

>Do you constantly check out your old art and compare them?
hecc ye, why not i mean?
>What would you change in the way you where learning back then?
I would fucking stop drawing everything facing the same way, more so with animals

>> No.4103036

>>4102912
TELL ME YOUR SECRETS

and also if you have social media for your art, i need more of thiss

>> No.4103037

>>4102899
blog?

>> No.4103039

>>4103034
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>> No.4103041

>>4103039
i know right stopped drawing 2015-late 2018 re learning everything haha

>> No.4103061
File: 494 KB, 1382x436, wol.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4103061

>> No.4103074

>>4102886
he means you suck REALLY bad, like so bad he almost died imagining being you

>> No.4103078

>>4103074
lol what a pansy
i know i suck thats why im here to improve, its not a race for me, just a life long goal.

>> No.4103119

>>4102912
gj anon

>> No.4103130

>>4102882
Bold and brash

>> No.4103132

>>4103034
You desperately need to read Loomis and some books on color theory and blending

>> No.4103141
File: 2.66 MB, 3208x2326, Traditional Progress.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4103141

Any advice to not stagnate my improvement? I feel like I've barely improved over the past year.

>> No.4103170

>>4103132
Yeah. With the new one I did No construction. Just wanted to play with color.

>> No.4103182

>>4103170
NO EXCUSES just draw more loomis

>> No.4103186

>>4103182
Sir yes sir.

>> No.4103205

>>4103141
The biggest thing I'm seeing is a lack of pushing yourself forward. In each of these you're drawing a head-on character in BW with a still pose with no background. In each of these you keep the anatomy very simplistic, with little emphasis on form, or even creative use of shapes. The thing that is holding you back is that you're staying in your comfort zone rather than pushing yourself to learn more complicated knowledge and more difficult techniques.
The fastest way to improve is to push yourself out of your comfort zone. You seem to be uncomfortable with anatomy in general, along with drawing dynamic figures as they would work in 3D space from different angles. Spending a month or two just practicing that, studying Loomis/Hampton and doing figure drawings would give you a lot of gains. You could even try different stuff like drawing environments, setting your characters in them, using color, and so forth. But to get better at these things, you first have to start practicing them. The biggest thing you need I feel is more ambition, because once you start leaving your comfort zone to make more difficult pieces, you will quickly learn what the rest of your shortcomings are, giving you an opportunity to study and improve.

>> No.4103383
File: 1.77 MB, 2916x4044, my progress.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4103383

>>4102882
here is mine. sorry that im shit at putting this together

>> No.4103513

>>4103036
No social media, too gribble

Make an artstation, follow industry professionals, like only pictures so good you feel like you'll never achieve that level, reference from them while youre composing, lighting, coloring, rendering, etc

i dont look back at any painting i made more than like 3 paintings ago because ill start to hate my work and get discouraged, i don't spend a lot of time looking at the work of nonprofessionals so i dont lower my standards for myself

and uhhh yeah practice a lot, i made the first painting when i was 16 or 17 i think, and i probably stayed at around that skill level until i was 19

>> No.4103820

>>4103383
qts!

>> No.4103854
File: 1.69 MB, 2880x3840, D92A3725-2A0E-4F5D-B95E-54A7D590DB9D.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4103854

Yuck the faces in the first one makes me want to punch them. I can’t believe I thought it was okay to draw like this.

>> No.4103871

>>4103383
the tadpole is adorable!

>> No.4104009

>>4103383
blog

>> No.4104061
File: 15 KB, 240x304, 1546297343788.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4104061

>>4103820
>>4103871
thank you!!! im glad you like them!

>>4104009
https://twitter.com/Dirona24
here is my twitter friend.

>> No.4104118
File: 158 KB, 656x640, 1466333479174.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4104118

>>4102882
Idgaf about the thread content per se, anon, but I'll just thank whoever posts their absolutely jaw-dropping improvements in threads like this. You all remind me not to sit on my hands all day, and to actually put effort in improving. Everytime I see these 5 year gaps where there absolutely no improvement at all being posted by other /beg/ies, I dust up a book, pen and paper and go at it again.

Your work is very much appreciated.

>> No.4104119
File: 99 KB, 1001x546, artmeme.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4104119

>>4102882
(fart sounds)

>> No.4104161

>>4103854
Feel like the first one has more impact.

>> No.4104203
File: 933 KB, 1724x1080, Illustration5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4104203

>> No.4104254
File: 3.47 MB, 6305x3712, 1566427680610.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4104254

>>4104119
Way more tasteful, anon. Nice color changes, too.

>> No.4104507

>>4102899
Very nice, makes me want to draw cute office boys all day long.

>> No.4104518

>>4104507
Thank you! ^^ I used to draw a lot of girls but drawing boys has been really fun recently

>>4103037
@seesaw_yt

>> No.4104529

>>4104203
Das cute

>> No.4104535

>>4103854
Impressive!

>> No.4104539

>>4102882
Why did she become a jew?

>> No.4104582
File: 2.41 MB, 4180x2160, fkme.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4104582

>>4102882
Ok OP. Here is my "progress". I wouldn't say I've improved all that much since 2017, since I had stopped drawing for almost a year. Bu,t I've been getting back into the grind for the past month or so and I've been learning a few things here and there. I need to get into so many art thingies. I especially want to focus on anatomy, and figure drawing rn I guess. Currently going through Keys to Drawing.

>> No.4104595
File: 158 KB, 1080x1920, IMG_20190814_085208.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4104595

>>4104118
Do your best anon!

>> No.4104604 [DELETED] 
File: 737 KB, 1848x913, oka.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4104604

>>4102882
Sorry it's not the same subject, but I hope you get the idea. Both were made with ref.

>>4102912
This some inspiring shit. Nice.

>> No.4104623

>>4102882
>6 years
>still didn't pick up on the fundamentals and 100% newbie tier art
I'm sorry anon
you are not gonna make it.

>> No.4104624

>>4102899
Based yaoi artist
nice improvement

>> No.4104638

>>4104203
cute tomboy.

>> No.4104664

>>4102882
6 finger on her left hand
try harder

>> No.4104669

i can never do a progress pic because all the work ive ever done is unfinished

>> No.4104943
File: 31 KB, 470x470, 1564981136400.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4104943

Holy fuck this thread is hilarious

>> No.4104973

>>4104943
So make it more serious and show your progress.

>> No.4104978
File: 164 KB, 970x683, test.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4104978

>> No.4105024

>>4104978
I mean, the right looks a lot better and it's a cool style, but the style is totally different so it's hard to compare. Draw another realistic Kanye or whoever that's supposed to be in greyscale--that's the real test of how much you've improved.

>> No.4105134

>>4103034
oh my god please be bait

>> No.4105155

>>4103141
>>4103205
Agree with this anon. It seems like you don't know what to study/ how to improve and I think that's why you're stagnating. I think I like the 2018 one more too.

>> No.4105158

>>4105134
sadly, no. only got back in to drawing with not drawing for 4 years

>> No.4105165

>>4105158
There's always time, anon. You're drawing again, now. Think how much sweeter it will feel every time you improve.

>> No.4105180

>>4102882
Anons where can I learn color theory?

>> No.4105184

>>4105180
A book

>> No.4105202

>>4105184
But I can't read

>> No.4105219

>>4102899
based tumblr fujo who is gmi

>> No.4105245

>>4105180
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LhcNbFMkTw
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fLV5ezO64w

>> No.4105249

>>4103034
This is literally not making progress at all what so ever.

>> No.4105266
File: 555 KB, 1000x593, 2xc.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4105266

does anyone else find themselves posting on /ic more than their actual social media?

>> No.4105373

>>4105202
Learn how to read with a book

>> No.4105388
File: 330 KB, 600x600, 1537851600753.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4105388

>>4103034

>> No.4105435

>>4103141
Work on hands and proportions more before you do anything else.

>> No.4105437

>>4104978
I actually like the left more, has some A Scanner Darkly rotoscoping vibes to it.

>> No.4105461

>>4105266
any hint to learn color? I rely too much on Photoshop it's annoying me.

>> No.4105572

>>4105461
where are your coloring skills at right now? got an example?

>> No.4105838
File: 1.72 MB, 5170x1969, rococo_2006_to_2019.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4105838

This is probably very depressing to look at, this is between 2006 - 2019. each column advanced a year of just one of subject I am drawing.

>> No.4105876

>>4103034
you should really at a footnote that you stopped drawing for essential more than 3/4 of that time, people would be more understanding. Or are you baiting? Anyway, good for you that you pick up a pencil in the first place. Better than some people here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>> No.4105922
File: 196 KB, 585x1280, IMG_20190908_175850.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4105922

What do you think of this one, please I'm desparate for outside affirmation

>> No.4105960
File: 719 KB, 1600x625, killme.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4105960

>>4102882
SOUL VS SOULLESS
age 16, age 24

I didn't draw at all from 2014-2018 but I still have no excuse to be this bad

but drawing is all i have because im a useless piece of shit

>> No.4105977

>>4105960
>I didn't draw at all from 2014-2018
oof

>> No.4105979

>>4105977
homelessness, severe depression, alcohol & drug abuse will do that to you

>> No.4105985

>>4105979
stay safe anon

>> No.4105987

>>4105985
thanks, I have a roof over my head and have been clean for 2 years now

>> No.4105996

>>4104623
the point is not making it for me, the point is improving, so in all your wizdom waht do you recomend to truly improve?

>> No.4106001

>>4105838
Love this! Social?

>> No.4106028

>>4105987
god bless you anon

>> No.4106157
File: 142 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4106157

>>4102912
lole

>> No.4106226

>>4106157
If you did this anon it's really good

>> No.4106250

>>4105922
Your sense of light has gotten much better and your last pic is atmospheric. You've improved appeal and the ability to convey tone. Cozy, anon. And different. Keep going :)

>> No.4106260

>>4105266
really kewl. post some tutorials you consider good?

>> No.4106267

>>4106226
he didn't, a professional did
the dude who painted the nami used that as reference

>> No.4106270

>>4106226
Nah it's by the League artist Su Ke, whom the anon i replied to copied
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/WYN2E

>> No.4106273

>>4105838
theres some rather unpleasant ones but the comic page and the last trad drawing are great

>> No.4106283

>>4103034
I live for this kind of shit

>> No.4106380

>>4105996
the grasp of the basic concepts behind what you are drawing.
Doesn't even look like you understand the concept behind drawing space

>> No.4106389

>>4105922
blog? i recognize your stuff from somewhere

>> No.4106401

>>4104978
No skill improvement but lots of soul improvement.

>> No.4106446

>>4106157
i did indeed use this as a reference

>> No.4106483

>>4105922
I am a beginner but they are really cozy. I certainly wouldn't know how to even go about making that. I like the layout a great deal. Comfy af.

>> No.4106496
File: 2.14 MB, 961x1840, 2233445522.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4106496

>>4106270
oh i didnt see this one

idk if the word copy to you comes from a place of maliciousness, but i did state in a reply to a previous anon that i reference professional artists as a means to improve or emulate a certain thing that works really well in a peace in an attempt to learn how to do it, a technique that a lot of artists do without crediting the person theyre referencing from

if you asked i would've told you i ref'd su ke instead of you feeling the need to be all gotcha about it

>> No.4106538

>>4106496
Top is really nice, got the feel without copying the pose. Actually prefer yours at the bottom left to the one on the right, too.

>> No.4106546

>>4106538
oh no i have accidentally done it again OTL

the top artists are He Xiaosong and Wangjie Li
Middle Artists are Carter Adair and Bo Chen
Bottom Artists are Craig Mullins and Aaron Garcia

I was providing them as an example of it being an exercise that a lot of artists engage in

>> No.4106563

>>4103854
are you joking? The faces look much better in the first one, it looks like a stylistic choice vs in the second one where it just looks like shitty anatomy. Especially true for the girl, its like half her face is missing. Nice coloring though

>> No.4107099
File: 1.12 MB, 1000x756, mermaidre.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4107099

Here's mine. I don't think the newer one really turned out as I wanted either when I drew it but I guess it's rather good improvement for 5 years. Could've done a lot worse really.

>> No.4107148

>>4107099
anatomy is holding you back

>> No.4107169

>>4107148
Yep, I'm aware, that's exactly why I didn't like the new one too much, it's too stiff. I'm currently grinding through anatomy because of that. I spent few years pretty much exclusively working on painting because it was my weakest point but now that my painting is on better track I can finally turn my full attention towards anatomy.

>> No.4107916

>>4107099
those gains make me really damn jealous

>> No.4107927
File: 887 KB, 1160x918, yearly compare.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4107927

>>4102901
>>4102899
Sorry it took so long to respond. I had to make a year progression.

>> No.4107932
File: 276 KB, 1364x1054, Screen Shot 2019-09-09 at 9.29.16 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4107932

>> No.4107934

>>4103854
Bottom one looks like a banner I've seen on geocites or angelfire, looks nice

>> No.4107943

>>4107927
really good progress anon

>> No.4107954

>>4107927
Cute!
If I ever get as good as your 2019 pic then I will be happy.

>> No.4107985

I really wish I was brave enough to share my progress but I'm too scared of being bullied. It's great seeing everyone's progress though! You're all gunna make it <3

>> No.4108031

>>4107916
hahha thank you but it's been years of blood and tears so I wouldn't be very jealous of that :D

>> No.4108032

>>4107985
Is it more than 3m of time delta? quit being a faggot and just do it

>> No.4108053
File: 1.51 MB, 1728x1076, generic.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4108053

>> No.4108054

>>4108053
soul vs soulless

>> No.4108060

>>4108054
watever

>> No.4108062

>>4108054
This really happens in most art.

>> No.4108229

>>4108053
good progress anon... are you trying for a style like Frank Frazetta's?

>> No.4108230

>>4108054
you need to kys immediately

>> No.4108236
File: 269 KB, 702x814, Webp.net-resizeimage (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4108236

here's mine. I made this in may i think. i will post a recent drawing.
>>4107932
thats good progress in two years

>> No.4108237
File: 246 KB, 614x819, Webp.net-resizeimage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4108237

>>4108236
this is from a week ago.

>> No.4108261

>>4108229
thank you. i love frank frazetta, jeff jones and all those dark fantasy artists. so that probably has an impact

>> No.4108312

>>4108237
Ok, it's gettin weird

>> No.4108333

>>4108237
i love this style. who are your inspirations?

>> No.4108337

>>4108312

In a good way

>> No.4108935

>>4108236
that's really good dude, you're killing it

>> No.4109205
File: 446 KB, 707x943, D8ED5910-C4ED-467B-A673-58D53CBB2E9E.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4109205

>>4108312
>>4108935
>>4108333
Thanks a lot! I like kim jung gi and even mehl amundsen and claire wendling.

>> No.4109298
File: 1.27 MB, 5047x3508, Untitled_Artwork 3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4109298

2 years progress. What do y'all think?

>> No.4109311
File: 764 KB, 3300x2400, IMG_0670.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4109311

>>4109298
Another one from that time. I have no talent at all. I used to think my old piece was good...

Anyone can improve.

>> No.4109315

>>4109311
>>4109298
I honestly can't tell which one is supposed to be the newer one.

>> No.4109317

>>4109298
>>4109311
I really like your improvement! huge boost to your line confidence, I like how you started using curves better, too.

>> No.4110240
File: 634 KB, 4032x3024, IMG_1790.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4110240

I drew this around 2012

>> No.4110242

Now im redrawing it digitaly

>> No.4110244
File: 1.18 MB, 1920x1080, Screenshot (696).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4110244

>> No.4110354

>>4103078
dont listen to the crabs bro youre on your way that 2019 painting looks good

>> No.4110389
File: 1.25 MB, 4545x3403, Mah Improvement Final.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4110389

Posting this again, please don't be too harsh!

>> No.4110405

>>4108053
blog. also how did you improv so well?

>> No.4110437
File: 1.82 MB, 2300x1500, Miki improvement.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4110437

Well I'm getting better at one character at least.

>> No.4110451

>>4110405
study your loomies

>> No.4110553
File: 3.94 MB, 900x2836, 1563663229641.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4110553

>> No.4112245
File: 308 KB, 1640x1239, artflow_201909120915.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4112245

I rarely try painting so it's a huge weakness for me, but right was a study I did yesterday. I spent all of 2016 not drawing and many MANY other months in between either not drawing at all or not being serious.

>> No.4112288
File: 3.62 MB, 900x3363, progresschart1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4112288

I have one big file I update every year and this time I also included the pictures I drew in primary school. It's so funny cause some of the characters I drew back then look similar to how I draw now, especially the faces.
Part 1/2

>> No.4112290
File: 3.23 MB, 900x3017, progresschart2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4112290

>>4112288
Part 2/2

>> No.4112309

>>4110553
I like your perseverance, but if you just focused on actual studying (subscribed to NMA, for example), you'd see in one year more improvement than you have till now.

>> No.4112324

>>4112245
I like it clean your edges and you're good to go

>> No.4112346

>>4112245
Just curious on the technique - what brush settings did you use for the right side

Variable opacity, variable size? And do you color pick a bunch or just use a limited palette?

>> No.4112375
File: 251 KB, 517x636, lolprogress.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4112375

>>4112290
Bonus

>> No.4112407

>>4112375
...

soul vs soulless

>> No.4112413

>>4112324
Thanks!
>>4112346
I used a rectangular brush with pressure set to opacity, and at about 80-90% opacity max. Most of the colors started as greyish variants of one orange/red and one blue, with some reds and magenta, and I mostly just used the eyedrop picker from my drawing from there

>> No.4112485

>>4104582
she hit the gym

>> No.4112667

>>4105266
cool and good

>> No.4112669

>>4105922
Love this kind of art!
Great stuff!!

>> No.4113195

>>4103854
Do you have versions of them that are not pixelated to hell and back?

>> No.4114466

>>4110389
Slow progress maybe, but you are getting somewhere. Keep it up!
>>4110437
I like the linework in the last one, I really like the colors too. Keep up the good work.

>> No.4114485

>>4110553
Have a blog, fella?

>> No.4114648

does anyone have the improvement chart of that one guy who only drew giant city sized lolis but did it for so long he got amazing?

>> No.4114785

>>4114648
Man I miss that guy

>> No.4114803

>>4114466
arigatou

>> No.4114838
File: 944 KB, 1135x1700, Untitled-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4114838

>>4102882

>Do you constantly check out your old art and compare them?

Not really

>What would you change in the way you where learning back then?

Fail faster. Focus on form. Try to not be so depressed

I wish I had found art earlier in life

>> No.4114850

>>4104203
What do you call this, when the bust is much more well drawn then the rest of the body? Here the quality contrast is huge it's not even funny. Again great faces and hair, everything else sucks shit.

>> No.4114872

>>4112309
Thank you you're right i should try to do more formal training and studying i will try out the subscription you've suggested

>>4114485
Sadly no i dont have a blog i will once i feel i am at a comfortable level to show my stuff

>> No.4115292

>>4114838
YOU PUT THE NEWEST STUFF ON THE BOTTOM GOD DAMMIT FIREZ CAN'T YOU DO ANYTHING RIGHT AAAAA

nice work

>> No.4115307
File: 499 KB, 1135x1700, Firez.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4115307

>>4115292

>> No.4115308

>>4112290
>disgusting jewgle small-head-giant-hands style in 2018
absolutely disqualified.

>> No.4115664

>>4105960
imagine peaking at 16

wow

>> No.4115675

>>4114838
i love you

>> No.4115680

>>4112288
>>4112290
Hey I seen your posts before.

>> No.4115983 [DELETED] 
File: 1.84 MB, 2848x2152, augcasarin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4115983

>> No.4115984
File: 305 KB, 1280x720, pjimage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4115984

wow. doing this made me made me realize soul vs soulless isnt a meme.
I also realized how long the first one took me, vs the hot 30 minutes it took me to make the other one.
This is 11 months progress. Newer one is from today.

>> No.4116100

>>4115292
I was using the dA order. Thanks btw

>>4115307
Lel

>>4115675
I <3 too anon

>> No.4116136

>>4107927
please drop blog <3

>> No.4118638

>>4102912
How many hours a day/week?

Asking for a friend.