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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique


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File: 96 KB, 579x400, 1556950521379.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3974943 No.3974943 [Reply] [Original]

The Chad VolenCK is back at it again with advice on learning how to draw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdIML-9s4bw

>> No.3975005

>>3974943
good god this guy fucking rambles. get to the point you potato-headed faggot

>> No.3975028
File: 52 KB, 960x751, merp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3975028

>>3974943
>quits his job and spends hundreds of dollars (if not thousands) on art instruction, including mentorships with professional concept artists, yet can't draw for shit.

how is he even remotely qualified to give learning advice?

>> No.3975102

>>3974943
i thought he quit art

>> No.3975108

>>3974943
>5 years and still a ngmi
OOF

>> No.3975111

Great, i can't care less.

>> No.3975159

>>3975005
attention span of a nat
>>3975028
show your stuff
>>3975108
show your stuff

>> No.3975214

>>3975159
>attention span of a nat
A network address translation?

>> No.3975216

not my chad

>> No.3975237
File: 231 KB, 916x1200, volen-ck-drawing-practice-female-soldier-volen-ck-illustration-concept-art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3975237

Here is one of his recent studies.

>> No.3975297

>>3975237
he posted this on his ArtStation page.... how embarassing

>> No.3975303

>>3975237
I feel like you guys are exaggerating how bad this guy is. Or if it is redpill me on how it's terrible.

>> No.3975305

>>3975303
They are just being crabs

>> No.3975331

>>3974943
He's super Chad. He's our guy.

>> No.3975380
File: 331 KB, 1201x627, 1560645993448.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3975380

>>3975303
It's about the amount of time he's spent drawing. Even now he's just average, posts long videos on youtube ranting about art, constantly saying he's "learned so much in the past year/month/week/yesterday." I had a friend that was like that back in the day people still gave a shit about WC3. He wanted to become a pro and he became a "good" player compared to average scrubs but he got raped by actual pros, later he got into SC2 and same thing happened again. That's volen. Talks big game but never delivers

>> No.3975386

>>3975380
The guy is great, wtf are you talking about.

He'll be a master soon.

>> No.3975414

>>3975380
people say talent doesn't exist but volen is proof it does because it's painfully obvious that he doesn't have any.

>> No.3975434

>>3975303
well he was photobashing/trace 3D for 5 year and
decided to start over again by actually drawing and study fundie
he admit that was a fucked up part on him
so good for him I guess

>> No.3975443

>>3975380
>Talking shit about an artist in training's vlogs just because he talks about drawing but isn't a pro yet
He's teaching himself, so of course he's improving at a slow place. At least he isn't making excuses as to why he doesn't need to study or practice such and such like most of /ic/.

>> No.3975447
File: 31 KB, 250x250, 1427911112185.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3975447

>>3975380
>Talks big game but never delivers
>he says as he trashes someone without posting his own work

>> No.3975546
File: 769 KB, 1061x594, volenck art.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3975546

VolenCK, while admittedly his art isn't as good as it could be, its improving at a very rapid pace compared to when he was starting off.
In the past year and a half, he's starting to churn out some nice looking work. He's still got a ways to go though. I think he should try doing some more imagination work combined with his learning since he could deliver some potentially incredibly work.

Also, while he may ramble a bit, if you listen closely to what he's trying to say to the end, he delivers some really sound advice. He's weirdly esoteric but its a much nicer change compared to 90% of YouTubers who constantly go on about "just draw" or "talent doesnt exists :3" or "im clearly the best, why aren't you the same?"

VolenCK is becoming a very valid person to listen to because he was the kind of guy that dismissed advice and fought with his mind so hard to get where he is. He doesn't strike me as a snob or a rich anglo autocrat that acts like a high and mighty smug asshole about their process and journey. This guy knows whats up, and is genuine. He is capable of explaining those smaller points in order for us to not fall into the same trap and that we can move past them just like he is doing, and its inspiring.
And for that, he's worth the credit.

>> No.3975582

This guy has been practicing for years non-stop
he got the passion and commitment for it and I admire him for that, but it doesn't seem like its working.
you can tell that he doesn't have any kind of talent or creative scene in him, there's something about his work... it really feels forced and lifeless.

>> No.3975586

>>3975546
photo copies =/= art

given enought anyone can learn to copy photos proficiently, just take a look at the art boards on reddit where normies post celebrity portraits all day. there's nothing impressive about that. for all of Volen's ramblings about art he's still doing the same shit after 6 years and refuses to leave his comfort zone of just copying photos. I feel sorry for the people are going to pay for the art course he's supposedly trying to launch. I cannot imagine a worse teacher.

>> No.3975598 [DELETED] 

>>3975586
>photo studies =/= photo copies
>implying it doesn't take much skill to draw drawing and paint from observational accurately
Only people who can't even draw what they see at all cope and say this shit like this to make themselves feel better lmao

>> No.3975600

>>3975586
>photo studies =/= photo copies
>implying it doesn't take much skill to draw and paint from observational accurately
Only people who can't even draw what they see at all cope and say this shit like this to make themselves feel better lmao

>> No.3975753
File: 497 KB, 1920x1080, volen retard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3975753

>>3975582
Look at the retarded infographic he's made. After all this time he still has no taste for design or style. I have no idea how you can spend as much time meandering as he has. I have no ideas what his goals are, is it still concept artist? He's constantly saying "I've learned so much" but you can never tell. He rambles like he's selling you something but there's nothing to sell.

Everything about him oozes gross 00s digital schmuck.
https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/018/058/545/large/volen-ck-monk-volen-ck-concept-art-illustration-design.jpg?1558284559

>> No.3975769

>>3975753
is that fucking helvetica

>> No.3975802
File: 68 KB, 512x818, xtjIU.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3975802

>>3975582
>forced
ah, exactly ! it is forced. well maybe who knows, i'm just projecting.
but i kinda quit because i forced it, i just wanted to see an end result and didn't enjoy the process, which is a bit soul crushing i think.

>> No.3975906

>>3975546
I've watched a few of his hour-long vids in entirety.

There really isn't much to be learned, and this is coming from someone who likes his art. He just rewords the same basic advice of "study fundamentals" over and over, ad nauseum, and never delves into the topic with tips, tricks, or insight. It's honestly coma-inducing. I can get better advice from a fag on /ic/ and it doesn't take my whole lunch break.

If you've seen his "I'm self-taught!!" vid then you've seen half his content, because seems like he keeps trying to rehash the only thing that blew up on his channel.

>> No.3976127
File: 81 KB, 529x1016, Capture.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3976127

>>3975753
the fact that volen believes all of these to be separate "levels" is clear proof he's ngmi

>> No.3976159

>>3976127
pyw

>> No.3976211

>>3976127
he already made it. wth are you talking about.

The charts are great.

>> No.3976241

>>3976211
fundamentals wise yeah but he still lacks design and story telling skills

>> No.3976280

>>3976241
He's not a master yet, he's about 1 year studying the right things. He'll be a master in no time.

>> No.3976290
File: 634 KB, 1920x960, endofbattle.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3976290

>>3976241
>>3976280
It's been several years and he still relies on photos and 3D software to make simple images because he cannot grasp the fundamentals. I wonder if he was dropped on the head as a baby or got into a really bad car accident or something. There must be some reason why.

>> No.3976291

>>3976280
>he'll be a master in no time
i dont think you know what a master is. he lack basic design and story telling skills to work as a concept artist in a small indie game.

>> No.3976531

>>3976290
No, he said he used to do that. He just started to grind the fundies 1~2 years ago. He's drawing from his mind now.

>>3976291
cope

>> No.3976598

VolenCK is the epitome of mental masturbation. All talk and no results.

>> No.3976603 [DELETED] 

>>3976291
This is like talking shit about a pianist whose still in training just because they don't spend much time trying to compose their own pieces for piano yet lmao

So much cope it hurts

>> No.3976610

>>3976241
>>3976290
>>3976291
This is like talking shit about a pianist whose still in training just because they don't spend much time trying to compose their own pieces for piano yet

So much cope it hurts

>> No.3976614

>>3976610

Yes, a pianist who can barely play "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" passably who shares his half-baked thoughts on music theory and is just about to teach piano classes.

>> No.3976818
File: 18 KB, 515x465, dumbass.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3976818

>>3976531
>No, he said he used to do that. He just started to grind the fundies 1~2 years ago. He's drawing from his mind now.
No he is not. He is still copying from photos (taken from the NMA gallery + movie stills) and painting over 3D models.

>> No.3976835

>>3976818
>You can't learn fundamental drawing/painting skills from drawing or painting what you see
You can't be this fucking retarded. Do you really need it explained to you how this is a good way to learn?

>> No.3976838

>>3976835
>Do you really need it explained to you how this is a good way to learn?
The only retard here is you.
Volen has been doing this method for 7 fucking years and still can't draw from his head. But oh yeah copying photos and drawing over 3d models is a great way to learn. Why don't you go tell all the art schools and ateliers around the world that they're teaching art the wrong way and should follow Volen's methods because it yields such amazing results?

>> No.3976840

>>3976838
dont forget tracing, thats obviously the way to make it

>> No.3977001

>>3976838
The proof is in the pudding. He can draw and paint better than you despite starting from nothing 7 years ago. If I'm wrong then prove me wrong. You can do nothing but whine how it doesn't count because he's not drawing the right things somehow.

Besides, almost of all of the instruction at ateliers and good art schools that teach you the fundamentals is mostly drawing and painting from observation. That's exactly what's Volen is doing.

>> No.3977115

>>3975414
This is cruel. But it’s painfully true.

Him and Rebecca Rand (also on YouTube) are literal documented proof that talent is real. And more pure grind won’t take you anywhere if you don’t have the seed/natural talent for aesthetics and art.

>> No.3977139

>>3975214
fuck i just had an exam about this shit didn't expect it to show up on my lurkin board

>> No.3977146

>>3977115
Is she good?

>> No.3977156

>>3976610
if you're still in training you shouldn't be trying to teach others

>> No.3977175

>>3977001
>The proof is in the pudding. He can draw and paint better than you despite starting from nothing 7 years ago. If I'm wrong then prove me wrong. You can do nothing but whine how it doesn't count because he's not drawing the right things somehow.
If I'm better than him or not doesn't matter, grandpa. You don't need to be Gordon Ramsey to know if the pudding tastes bad. Being able to copy photos and trace does not make you an artist. A trip to reddit's art board will show you that anyone with a functioning hand and decent eyesight can learn to copy photos 1:1, yet 99% can't even draw from their own imagination to save their lives, just like Volen. If copying/tracing photos were all there is to making art, then all the pros would have nothing but photo copies in their portfolios. It would also imply that Volen is on the same level as them which he obviously isn't.

>Besides, almost of all of the instruction at ateliers and good art schools that teach you the fundamentals is mostly drawing and painting from observation. That's exactly what's Volen is doing.
School classes involve observation from LIFE, not photos. Yes there is a difference. They also teach you construction methods so you don't have to rely on tracing over 3d models to draw something as simple as a fucking sword laying on the ground. We get it, you have a hard on for the guy, but stop trying to make it sound like he knows what he's doing because it's clear that he doesn't. He's admitted to this himself. I'd be more understanding of his situation if he were still new to drawing like 2-3 years in, but it's been 7 years. If I were trying at art that hard for so long with such poor results, I'd question why I even bother in the first place.

>> No.3977176

>>3977156
that would remove 99% of all instruction online.

>> No.3977182

>>3977115
It's a tough one. For a physically and mentally able person, talent isn't real: everything takes practice, consistency, and persistence. People like Volen and Rebecca are NPCs for lack of a better word. They have no artistic taste, they constantly do awful studies, they're not self-aware and can't really reflect on what they're doing wrong. "IQ"/something your born with has a big impact on how fast you can learn which is sometimes what people think talent is. Those people tend to realize what helps them get to proficiency faster than people like Volen and Rebecca that just do studies for years. Over a long enough time, people should be able to get to similar levels given they've put in the work. The short term doesn't matter as much as people make it out to be. So talent shouldn't be something you ever think about although some people will get to where you want to go faster.

>> No.3977196

>>3977146
No, Rebecca Rand had all the time and training in the world and it didn't work for her.
she knew that and judging by her "portfolio" i think she gave up
http://beccarand.com/portfolio/

>> No.3977201
File: 113 KB, 1200x800, talent-ceilings.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3977201

>>3977182
I'd say this graphic is more realistic.

>> No.3977204

>>3977201
that's one of the trolliest /ic/ images i've seen in a while

>> No.3977206

>>3977204
But it's true. There is a talent ceiling for everyone.
does every player in a sports league become the MVP?
does every band or musician end up in the hall of fame?
does every olympic athlete break a world record?

>> No.3977216

>>3977201
i don't even have words or images to describe what i'm feeling seeing this pls for the love of god someone tell me that this is bullshit

>> No.3977222

>>3977216
It's bullshit.

Do I need to remind you this is 4chan and people trow NGMIs like candy? or how artist are stingy as fuck with knowledge charging overpriced courses?

4chan likes to shit on artist that already made it like4chan out of jealousy

Until I see that chart backed up by research done by an ivy league university or something as prestigious I will call bullshit on it

Relax.

>> No.3977223
File: 84 KB, 1280x720, 1541562310625.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3977223

>>3977222
finally some joy in this cruel word
thanks brah

>> No.3977225

>>3977223
>world
fixd*

>> No.3977226

>>3977222
*I meant to say sakimichan

>> No.3977532
File: 83 KB, 1100x400, ca-noob-pro-miles.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3977532

>>3977222
Science has already proven that we all have different IQ levels, so why is all of this so hard for you to accept?

Compare Mile's progress to Volen's as an example.

>> No.3977541

>>3974943
I'm going to coin the term "art incel" just specifically for this guy. This guy just goes on for hours talking about "how to improve your art", isn't actually good but thinks that just talking vaguely about art concepts will owe him art skills. Only actually drawing will get you results, you art incel.

>> No.3977623

>>3977532
>IQ levels
lol anon

>> No.3977642

>>3977532
IQ Levels being just a glorified pattern recognition test aside, I still need a reliable source or I call bullshit,

>> No.3977644

>>3977541
i raise you: fundiencel

>> No.3977665

>>3977201
so thats what autism looks like

>> No.3977667

>>3977532
>"science"
do you have a brain tumor anon ?

>> No.3977668

>>3977623
>>3977642
So everyone is exactly the same? There's no innate difference between all individuals? Everyone can be a Mozart, Einstein, Sargent, Michael Jordan, Phelps, Bach, etc. if they just try hard enough?

>> No.3977677

>>3977668
Nice strawman fallacy, nobody is denying people are different. I'm still waiting on a reliable source to prove your claims.

You have the burden of proof

>> No.3977683

>>3977668
prove that IQ is an efficient way to prove intelligence.

What is intelligence?

>> No.3977716

>>3977677
>nobody is denying people are different. I'm still waiting on a reliable source to prove your claims.
If you recognize that all people are different, what more proof do you need? Arguing with me doesn't make it any less true that not everyone can achieve greatness in their field. You're just being a contrarian for the sake of it. Michael Phelps is better than the other swimmers on his team, despite them all having access the same coaches, nutritionists, and gyms, because Phelps was born that way. It's not like his team members aren't trying their best, after all they managed to make it on the USA Olympic Team too. But there is obviously a genetic ceiling that separates them from Phelps.

>> No.3977718

>>3977716
Again I need reliable proof.

Back up your claims. You have the burden of proof. It's as simple as that.

Also swimming is a different skill from drawing making your point moot.

>> No.3977719

>>3977532
>Science has already proven that we all have different IQ levels, so why is all of this so hard for you to accept?
IQ levels can change over time. If anything that means even people who seem untalented can develop it with effort.

>> No.3977736

>>3977718
You already know there is no scientific study that proves exactly what you're asking. There are, however, studies done on athletes, chess players, etc. That do prove genetic differences between competitors and why some achieve far more than others. It's not unreasonable to infer that it would count for artistic abilities as well. Secondly, I never once said that nobody can learn how to draw.

>> No.3977741

Volen threads always end up depressing.

>> No.3977746

>>3977741
Because a lot anons on /ic/ relate to him and want to believe that everyone can turn pro if they try hard enough despite thousands of students and other individuals who try their best every day and won't ever make it. A twisted case of Dunning-Kruger and Survivorship bias.

>> No.3977748

Seeing this thread on top all the time claiming he's some kind of art chad pisses me off. Take off the fucking dick sucking goggles and reevaluate his art. Please.

>> No.3977805 [DELETED] 

>>3977175
>Being able to copy photos and trace does not make you an artist
Copying, tracing and drawing from observation is not the same.There are hundreds of hyperrealist artists who have built careers out of copying photographs in the most egregious and literal sense of the word. I don't like them either, but you can't say they're not artists just because they're not concept artjsts or imaginative illustrators. That's not drawing what you see to learn, which is what Volen does.

Besides, Volen never boasted the title of professional artist yet because he know he mediocre and understands how much he needs to learn. Actually watching his videos its just his vlog talking about his theories about what he thinks he needs to practice and how to do. He doesn't make how-to videos because he knows that he doesn't have it all figured out yet.

>School classes involve observation from LIFE, not photos
But who was Bargue plates and master copies

>> No.3977815

>>3977175
>Being able to copy photos and trace does not make you an artist
Copying, tracing and drawing from observation is not the same.There are hundreds of hyperrealist artists who have built careers out of copying photographs in the most egregious and literal sense of the word. I don't like them either, but you can't say they're not artists just because they're not concept artjsts or imaginative illustrators. That's not drawing what you see to learn, which is what Volen does.

Besides, Volen never pretended to be a professional artist yet because he know he's mediocre and understands how much he needs to learn. Actually watching his videos its just his vlog talking about his theories about what he thinks he needs to practice and how to do it. He doesn't make how-to videos because he knows that he doesn't have it all figured out yet. The point of him never drawing from imagination is moot because he often makes his own projects that are original pieces. I agree he needs more of that though

>School classes involve observation from LIFE, not photos
But who was Bargue plates and master copies

>> No.3977835

>>3977815
>. He doesn't make how-to videos because he knows that he doesn't have it all figured out yet.

have seen his latest video? he's launching an art course.

>> No.3977892

>>3977748
What?
Volen is the Absolute chad. The sheer determination and will power this fucking guy has is the stuff of tales. Without a doubt in my mind I know that Volen will make it. Time will pass and Volen will join the greatest artists of this generation, there is no ceiling for this guy. He will smash through it. No even death will stop him, we will preserve Volen in cryogenic state so we can revive him along with Disney and he will continue his artistic journey.

You on the other hand, my friend cannot even comprehend what Volen is about. You and him might as well be a different species, the difference is so great. Could a worm comprehend engineers building a nuclear reactor? No, so you better shut the fuck up.

Volen if you are reading this, I fucking love you my guy.

>> No.3977930

>>3977892

keep gassing up this worm Volen for being mediocre, i'm faithful to my chad Dave Rapoza and his motivational video only takes 15 minutes to watch compared to Volen's anesthetic epics

not to mention, dave rapoza also has a hot wife, get owned volen

>> No.3977938

>>3977668

The irony is that you are planning to do a manga with a main character that doesn't give up and gets stronger through training and hardwork.

LOL

>> No.3977942

>>3977222
Hahaha. The cope is real.

>> No.3977944

>>3977930
Do you have a link to the rapoza video

>> No.3977946

>>3977942
post your work.

>> No.3977947

>>3977942
Post a scientific study by a reputable university like Harvard that proves my cope is real

>> No.3977949

>>3977942
HAHAHA

ITT: Failed begs trying to discourage others.

>> No.3977959

>>3977944

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RRmDJ6lCcQ&t=79s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4tttsdhn8o&t=116s

>> No.3978020

>>3977736
>That do prove genetic differences between competitors and why some achieve far more than others.
Post these studies.

Intellectually speaking, pretty much everyone is on a par, all you need to do is develop the abilities. Specially in art, where everything is subjective.

>> No.3979024

>>3978020
>Intellectually speaking, pretty much everyone is on a par, all you need to do is develop the abilities.
You are by far the most retarded poster on ic.
>>3977736
Stop arguing with people who participate in willful ignorance. No argument has any effect on them

>> No.3979194

>>3979024
>I can't prove IQ but I'll call everyone a retard so I'll feel better about myself.

>> No.3979225

>>3979024
so thats what a ngmi thinks when he looks at successful artists ? fascinating

>> No.3979287

People like MDJ and Volen are way too theoretical for art. They can only produce an endless series of studies, or at best, bland and lifeless pictures that would fare better in medical journals than in art magazines. Artists with this mindset only concern themselves with technical skills, they don’t give a shit about subject matter, or making beautiful pictures, unless it’s for the purpose of showing off their abilities. “For now I’ll just keep grinding, because it will pay off in the future somehow. I need to make a finished work? Well I guess I’ll just draw another generic high elf fantasy girl :)”. After a few years of grinding at the fundies these types will usually decide to become art instructors. They might do a good job of it, and will even teach students who have the creative drives that they lack

>> No.3980214

>>3979287
>MDJ
who?

>> No.3980229

>>3980214
Modern Day James

>> No.3980265

>>3979287
This should be taken seriously.

>> No.3980310
File: 727 KB, 2048x1475, 1545102415343.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3980310

>>3979287
Holy fuck, this post is essentially something that took me 8 years to learn the hard way.

Another thing I might add to this is that dealing with aesthetic sensibilities and appealing stuff like that is an entirely different journey than tech skill. There definitely will be overlap, but it's not something that should be taken for granted as an automatic process.
From what I know It requires a lot of unlearning and re-contextualizing old information as well as being able to improvise and make decisions.

Because fundamentals are rooted in firm logic, they will never really allow you to understand how to make things like pic related. You might be able to copy it perfectly, or imitate it to an extent, but to get a distinct result from a blank page is an entirely different feat imo.
So many decisions are being made constantly about how to interpret the reference material and subject matter. It's a lot more difficult than "values, anatomy, colors, perspective, proportion, etc."

>> No.3980400
File: 96 KB, 681x669, 123.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3980400

>>3977146
Watts Atelier + Proko + Drawbox (2 years of learning not from scratch) thousends of dollars spent, so much time and effort wasted. Her latest thumbnail faces from immagination.

>> No.3980466

>>3980229
Modern Day James actually knows his shit though. People here talk about Volen like he's grinding in an atelier everyday and studying all these lost art books, when in reality he probably does one study every 3 months. He's not learning anything, he still doesn't even understand basic stuff like how important light and dark relationships are for composition.

>> No.3980472

>>3980400
This is the result of someone spending a lot of time thinking they are learning to draw, but they missed/misunderstood important key information when they first started and it set them down the wrong path.

>> No.3980508

>>3980400
>"time and effort"
yeah no she clearly didnt understand jack shit

>> No.3980527

>>3975753

This infographic says so much about his art taste. It's painful to watch.

>> No.3980736

>>3976610
You can tell someone is a pro pianist by how they play a single note. You can tell Volen is a blowhard charlatan by any painting or drawing you see of his.