/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3751135
>I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DRAW FOR YEARS
I don't believe you. Either you've not been drawing for years, or you weren't trying.

>>3751135
Not my fault you're a brainlet.

>>3751135
I'm a quitter, anon, so I know how you feel. I believe that yeah, you need talent to get really good. You have to enjoy the act of drawing and stop thinking about improvement. It's the only way to not get cancer. Just do it as a creative outlet, you need to stop thinking about it as a grind, fuck Loomis, fuck all that stuff. If you lose that joy of putting things down on paper it's over. Take a break maybe then start drawing again as a free person.

>>3751135
>hur dur I'm too stupid to figure out how to practice correctly.
Talent doesn't exist bud, anyone can do it, you're just too stupid to figure out how to by yourself.
Go pay someone to give you lessons, dumbass.

>>3751135
the number one wisdom spread in the chins is to not chicken scratch, you don't need a high iq to stop doing that

seems like you've been lazy or not dilligent enough

>>3751158
>Talent doesn't exist bud
It clearly exists or every working artist would be capable of doing what KJG does or at least close.
You think there are pros that DON'T draw all day?

>>3751135
Yeah, some people are retards, I'm sorry you're one of them.

>>3751162
Even though most professionals practice every day, few professionals practice in the same way KJG does. He's constantly drawn from life since he was little, building his visual library past the point most people need to be employable. His skill is awesome, but most people don't need to create a visual library as big as his in order to be hire-able, instead they need to practice and improve their rendering, or their lighting, or other things that sell products for their employers.
KJG is just what happens when someone hard practices into a specific facet of art for their entire lives, he's great, but he practiced a specific way to get where he is, a way that many other professionals do not need to, and would likely be wasting their time in trying to do.
Also on a side note, I don't actually think many people draw as constantly and borderline neurotically as KJG does, professional or not.

>>3751209
>no true scotsman

>>3751301
Different artists practice in different ways
Different artists specialize and practice differently
You cant generalize all practice as the same

>hur dur untrue sheepfucker

whatever, bud.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>3751135
Drawing is like math and programming.

Despite what they say, not everyone can do it.

>>3751316
Yeah, KJG just "specialized" in drawing absolutely insane shit 100% from imagination in an incredibly difficult medium with no preparation whatsoever.

>>3751341
retard
if drawing was as easy as doing math then every idiot could do it
drawing is not a solvable, mechanic skill

>>3751158
>Talent doesn't exist
you shouldnt let thoughts of it get in the way of your own progress but it OBVIOUSLY does
think of it as skill IQ
or are you one of those mongoloids who think everyone is equal lol

>>3751551
yeah it is lol. People don't like to admit that drawing is a technical skill. Try hard, and you'll get better. I can't think of any part of drawing that is abstract. It is all a concrete concept that can be explained and studied.

>>3751551
how do you think rendering software works?

Drawing is problem solving. If you cant draw something you probably need to learn new tools, out of which anatomy and perspective are probably the most important tools for solving draftsmanship problems.

>>3751135
>I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DRAW FOR YEARS
Keep going for a decade.

>>3751158
Tallent is real but it's more like a bonus to XP gain. You can still reach the max level but they will get there faster.

>>3751996
There are certain things which are almost impossible to learn.
Like visual memory and visualization abilities, some people have then so vivid it's literally mind blowing.
But yes, that won't stop you from becoming a pro.

>>3752065
you can improve your visual memory/visualization too.

the issue is we don't really consciously try to learn that, ever. the only exception I can think of is when people use mnemonic devices like method of loci for memory competitions and so on.

but yeah, some people are just going to be naturally better at it than others, that's just the way it is with everything.

>>3751996
I'd say max level isn't the best analogy here, more like everyone can reach endgame and those with talent are going to reach it faster.

>>3751135
have you tried gridding?

yaver hearnta no dang rulers in your holler?

>>3751209
Any rando Jap, if not, then genetics is a big part of it all.

>>3754812

>>3754856
http://www.mskoriru.com/japanese-school-life-art/

>>3751162
Holy shit if I hear talent one more time I swear
Kjg explained he drew all the fucking time for all his life. F course he'd get a feel for things that normies wouldn't. Drawing is work and problem solving. I've been stuck at a pitiful l level for all my life and started actually studying and observing and drawing the same shit again until it clicks and it works. It's not fucking magic. Some have better vizualisation, some none (sycrz says he doesn't) but everyone can learn

>>3751161
>to not chicken scratch
What the hell is chicken scratch?

>>3751817
lmao, I bet you like ruan jia and other chinese "masters", bet you're chinese/korean or a jew also

>>3755965
unclean lines

Hard work makes everything better.
Talent makes everything easier.

All this is hypocritical posturing. Good artists pretend their results are only due to hard work because the worker bee is the ideal of our age and they expect to earn more respect like that.

>>3756001
Point out a few great artists who didn't extensively practice and learn the fundamentals to get to where they are. Seriously I'll wait.

People who think talent is real just want an excuse to continue feeling sorry for themselves instead of learning.

>>3754812
I can't get behind the idea of gridding.
Imagine drawing something by using math instead of just your eyes.

>>3751135
>>3751135
Its bullshit. I've been drawing for months and I'm still the same as when I was deviant art. 2 hours of work and this is all I can manage.
Fuck /ic/ fuck Loomis. I just wanted to draw cute anime girls

>>3751135
>draw like two hours a month
>I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DRAW FOR YEARS
>>3751158
Talent exist dumbass, they're tons of experienced artist incapables of doing anything that isn't bland or vapid, and newcomers shitting flawed but endearing works daily.

>want to be able to encourage others and tell them that anyone can be an artist, but also like to think of the possibility that it's all just talent and I'm a special boy

I watched this Sinix video and learned that I just don't have a good brain and can't learn how to draw. It says to visualize a curved paper in 3 dimensions, but I can't do that. My brain must literally be broken because everyone in the comments is all "wow this helped!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBv5z0Y2odE

I must be a special kind of retarded

>>3757520
That is fucking useless if you want to draw an appealing face

>>3757520
bend a paper into a curve. Look at it. Feel it. From different angles. Now draw it with simple lines from different angles. Try until you get it right.
Okay, now comes part two. Try drawing a small bump in the middle of the paper. Do it from different angles.
Now draw a pyramid from different angles.
Now apply the pyramid to the bump. Boom, you have a rudimentary nose.
Try to draw the pyramid in the basic shape of a nose.
Now draw it on the curved paper, from different angles. Now you have a more accurate nose.
Just do that over and over, thousands of times. Each time you feel comfortable with it, try to add another detail, like the indentation of eye sockets, the shape of the mouth, blah blah blah.
Do it every single day until you can do it from memory. Et voila, you can draw a face from different angles.

>>3757501
There is definetely some things that either take a very long time to learn or are nearing unlearnable anon... and I understand what you mean because some people just dont have it, and ths saddest thing is they dont recognise that they dont have it.

>>3757424
>hard work makes everything better

Of course great artists work hard. Those who don't are surpassed by hard workers of high talent who are the ones to set the standard for "great".

Hard work works; that does not prove that talent doesn't exist. How could it ? Try to be logical.

But what can prove the existence of talent is the fact that two artists who put in the same amount of work will not achieve the same level of art.

>>3757656
Im not the poster you are responding to.
But i feel like while talent does exist, in the sence that certain people are naturaly inclined in some aspect, be that memory, ability to focus, or any other thing out of thousands that are useful when getting better at art.
Often times people just use the nebulous "Talent" as a way of limiting themselves, and sort of finding an excuse to quit something. Rather than saying "Im not willing to put more time and effort into something" they'll say "Well i wasn't gifted this magical gift of talent so i guess i can't help it anyway"

>>3751135
Quit
Do it pussy
Never pick up a pencil again and die bitter that you were too stupid to figure out how to draw and sink time into practice.
I fucking dare you, loser.

>>3757656
You're assuming that when different artists "work" that work is homogeneous, but that's not true.
Unless you sit two artists in the same room and specifically feed them the same lessons and force them to work in exceptionally similar ways, you cannot assume that the work artists put in is compatible let alone equatable.
Even if you do controle for every stimulus and practice that the two artists are exposed to, each artist will react differently to that work by the combined effect of many different variables such as: their past experiences that inform their understanding of the specific presentation of information, what their practice teaches them at each instance of practice, and their own aptitude of learning, etc etc,
Now maybe some small amount can be attributed to a genetic predisposition to learning, but the huge amount of variables make each instance of work a roll of the dice for the artist to learn. Therefore it's stands to reason that by and large the only consistent indicator of an artist growing is consistent practice of good principles.

>>3751135
Oh fucking joy.
Another one of these threads.

OP, it's clear you're rushing through these in an attempt to grind, but drawing takes thought and patience.

>>3757642
Can you actually define what "it" is without having to rely on other nebulous concepts?

>>3757520
>Another one of these threads.
I have a very high IQ (130+) and can easily visualize a bent paper in 3d space, even with lots of complex folds.
I've been drawing for a year (admittedly only a few hours per week) and I've only made moderate gains.
I don't think general spatial reasoning (like the paper exercise) is the most important skill for art learning skill, although it probably has some influence.

>>3751817
gesture is pretty abstract flow the rhythm and stuff

>>3754812
have you tried reading?
OP wants to improve

>>3757431
>I just wanted to draw cute anime girls
And that's why you fail

>>3757765
>a few hours per week
What are you expecting from that?

>>3751996
It's even less than that, if art were an attribute, talent would be a modifier you have on only one or two of the twenty skills related to that attribute.
You can know most of the brainlets that complain about talent are not actually studying and practicing because they don't even understand that color, line control, and 3D forms are all different skills unrelated to one another. You might be naturally good at one, but you still have to learn every other skill on your own, proving that all of them are learnable. Just like >>3757686 pointed out.

Representing 3d objects in a 2d space programs can now do it.
you guys are just dumb and lazy

>>3757753
>when different artists "work" that work is not homogeneous
>the only consistent indicator of an artist growing is consistent practice
...
Whatever, this is a side point.

You're right that many variables are involved.
I call talent the sum of all of those which are positive, internal, and largely out of control of the artist.
Willpower, drive and patience, for example, can be part of an artist's talent. Dexterity, imagination, ability to learn and to recognize patterns, and so on. Part of it is (not may be) genetic and there is no reason to assert that this part is small, or were it small that it is rendered irrelevant by the other variables instead of depended upon by them.

>>3757816
>color, line control, and 3D forms are all different skills unrelated to one another.
Different skills are only exceptionally unrelated. They depend on the same body and they are usually correlated.

Why do retards on /ic/ think that professionals don't fail all the time. It absolutely boggles my mind, quit reaching for impossible expectations first. Even artists like KJG fail constantly. you will never ever make things perfect all the time, you will fail and you will be shit.

>>3757798
Well I've never learned to draw before, so I had no idea what to expect.
Trying to do better in 2019 though.

>>3757427
>Imagine drawing something by using math
EXACTLY! Drawing is a technical thing. Flexing your technical drawing skills makes you a better artist.

>>3759212
>tfw too impatient to grid

>>3759212
Is that image seriously supposed to be supporting your argument?

>>3759227
why wouldn't it? Most efficient way to get exact proportions and framing.
>>3759225
I'm too impatient to spend a whole lot of time working on an underdrawing that's just going to get covered in paint.

>>3759237
You're kinda fucked from both ends when you start drawing from imagination and ditch tracing. Your little grid methond won't help you there.

>>3759212
>Flexing your technical drawing skills makes you a better artist.
lmao, did you just unironically assume that?
have you looked at your ... "developement"?

>>3759240
I mean I started drawing from imagination. Other than when I learned about it in art school in like 6th grade, I never really used grids until I was 30.

And even then, yeah gridding and being competent at ALL means by which we transfer an image onto canvas gives you more experiences and frames of reference for whatever you're working on.
>>3759256
>lmao, did you just unironically assume that?
I stated it. Art is all about the yin and yang of technical production and aesthetic emotion and impulse and stuff. Being technically competent makes you better. Deal with it m80.
>have you looked at your ... "developement"?
Yeah probably a lot better than yours, anonymous shitposter.

>>3759264
gridding has made you stagnate at the point you were when you started shitty paintings of memes. you have developed nothing, except further ingraining your terrible usage of color.

all your currents works show the same lacks and flaws as your early ones. oh, who am i fooling, you won't listen. yeah let's get some more of your "memeschlock, spearment, tbqhwyfhjs, huzzah" crap ....

you need your skull opened and your brain whacked with a toilet brush. no conventional therapy can help you.

>>3759275
>gridding has made you stagnate at the point you were when you started shitty paintings of memes.
Except I started painting shitty memes first. Hadn't really drawn ANYTHING, or done any artshit at all that wasn't related to video production, for a decade. At 18 when I went to college I went from drawing constantly to stopping entirely. Then the longer it went on led to more anxiety about starting up again. Got into doing acrylic painting because it was a medium I had no experience in. It was a way to get back into artistic production while leapfrogging over the autistic barrier to entry I had created for myself.

The first 4 were done by printing out the image, and then cutting out each color at a time with an exact-o knife and then tracing the hole on the canvas. Fifth, Cersei Unfinished, was an attempt at a hand draw, but then I decided I didn't like the face half way through and ended up printing out the picture and graphite transferring it on top. Then from like the 6th through 200, they're mostly all graphite transfers tracey memes. Decided at the 19th painting, Cabin, that I would do trace memes for year 1, grid memes for year 2, projection for year 3, etc. Currently, of the 320 paintings in production, about 30 were hand drawn to canvas.

>you have developed nothing, except further ingraining your terrible usage of color.
I mean the terrible useage of color is also scheduled. Year one was misusing black paint and water, year two has been misusing whites. Next year is misusing reds, then yellows.

>all your currents works show the same lacks and flaws as your early ones.
They don't have black paint mixed in them.

>oh, who am i fooling, you won't listen.
It's ironical because we've probably talked about all this shit and you suck at reading so you always just respond with your "huzzah" crap. You don't have an argument.

>you need your skull opened and your brain whacked with a toilet brush
You're THIS upset because you're ngmi

>>3759296
Not him but doing nothing but tracing meme images can only take you so far.
Sooner or later the novelty is going to wear off and you will have no redeeming values as an artist at that point.
Ah well, since it's only just a hobby then who am I to judge if you're having fun?

>>3759314
>Not him but doing nothing but tracing meme images can only take you so far.
Yeah I agree. How it's been viewed for the last year is that I'm in the "peasant painting" period. Spent a lot of last year branching out into bigger canvasses and more complicated images and stuff.
>Sooner or later the novelty is going to wear off and you will have no redeeming values as an artist at that point.
Yeah that's why there's an end date. Won't make another painting after January 30, 2025. There'll be the ~1000 paintings and that's it.
>Ah well, since it's only just a hobby then who am I to judge if you're having fun?
pfft this shit aint no hobby this a dang race.

pict related are 2 paintings I made about the anxiety of hand drawing and stuff. And how I kind of feel like circlejerking about free hand underdrawing on a painting is kind of like being a faggot about writing your name all over the canvas or something.

I used to say you shouldn't even bother because some Chinese or Korean is gonna be better than you. Until I started seeing black people say the same thing about white people. And I noticed how stupid it sounded to just lay down and die and instead of focusing on being awesome. Giving up and settling isn't an attractive look. When you present yourself to people this is what they'll see. They'll see that you find your arms and pout. And that's not a system conspiring against you its you settling.

>>3751135
You're right not everyone can learn to draw.
We should change it to "anyone with a brain and common sense can learn to draw"
>>3751146
You're supposed to draw shit you like as well as study I really don't know where this idea came from that you can only do one or the other. Spend a day studying then draw shit you like the next day, hell apply what you've learnt from the day before into your drawings for some practical improvement.

>>3758039
Please explain to me how color theory correlates with 3D construction in a way in which knowing one helps you with the other.

>>3751135
Oh it can't be that bad ano..
>Image