/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3459285
gr8 b8 m8

>>3459285
>drawing teacher says "don't worry if your drawings don't look like anything, we are breaking you out of symbol drawing, the more it looks like nothing the better"
>get a C because my drawings don't look like anything while the students that symbol draw and dress it up with random sketchy marks get praised.

Drawing class is a meme, all the good teachers are dead.

>>3459285
>ready the sticky

>>3459423
symbol drawing is cool though

loomis

>Kindergarten
>Teacher suggest a drawing contest
>I draw something colorful and complex
>Some kid just draws something like pic related
>He wins

I learned far too soon how the world of art really works.

>>3459476
>I learned far too soon how the world of art really works.

yeah technically impressive ≠ good

>>3459285
holy shit, that sounds precisely like /ic/

worst part is, /ic/ posters don't even care about what the few pros that posted here have to say about this shithole

>>3459285
>animation forums

Do you think that's code word for /ic/? Or are most art communities like /ic/?

>>3459285
Life drawing/croquis sketches is a meme? Is this true?

>>3459655
>>3459285
Life drawing is really important, but there are also a million other things you need to practice.

>life drawing

>>3459655
He mentions that he believes more of the idea in self discovery. Books and teachers will only get you so far, but you need to work on your own things to really achieve your goals.

>>3459680
>25% of not drawing 75% drawing
Has he cracked the code?

It's like he just misunderstands how learning works and thinks he is revealing some big secret.

>>3459285
What the hell is with that dog avatar? The snout is facing to the right but there's that almost creepy human smile pasted onto the middle. The mouth makes no sense in relation to the nose. This triggers the furfag in me. I think maybe he was trying to do it right but the proportions are off so the mouth looks like its all fucked up instead of on the muzzle.

>>3459693
You can still draw in that 25%. Think of those hundreds of pages of mindlessly done boxes, line exercises, random plant studies, etc. that floods beginners' sketchbook threads. And nowhere in that picture does he claim it to be a big secret, he is merely sharing his advice

>>3459693
You'd be surprised how many people find this concept very foreign. In fact, there's a lot of people here who believe the idea of 'practice' is bullshit.

>>3459698

>>3459285
looking at his work, he really needs to start learning again and doing life drawing. It's fucking horrible

>>3459707
>'practice' is bullshit
in /ic/ case, it is
most people here think that mindessly practicing minuscule anatomic details, or repeating ridiculous perspective rules of thumb will make them magically improve, without never even trying to finish a half decent final piece

>>3459821
How do you actually practice then? What does it mean to finish a half decent final piece?

>>3459285
>>3459823

>>3459838

>>3459714
What does this mean

>>3459285
>Hilarious memes you fell for?

I fell for three.

'Artists cant/dont make money' meme

'Only GOD-TIER artists can make money' Meme

'You must work in the industry to make money' meme
I learned:
- A fuck ton of them are bad at business
- Many of them live in expensive as fuck cities.
- Many artist don't realize how important it is to build a following
- And then there are the Popular artists who either look down on or straight-up treat their fans poorly (It doesn't help that their overzealous fans would let them)

Patreon was the biggest red pill, I see shitty to mediocre artist get paid out the ass while some better artists not go anywhere. Indiegogo is very similar

>>3460022
>You must work in the industry to make money
pretty sure there's more artists making money in real jobs than in patreon or similars, like for 2 orders of magnitude at least

>>3459823
It's different for animation. In animation the actual animation and understanding of motion is more important than the art itsself.

Something can be visually appealing without being technically good and that's something /ic/ doesn't understand.

If your goal is comics or illustration, life drawing should be one of your first steps. For animators it's secondary.

>>3459285
I fell for the "never copy" meme.

>>3459823
stop grinding fundies. start making the shit you want, as good as you are able to do, using all the tricks you know. cheat as much as possible

repeat until you become actually good

>>3459423
>>3459476
>>3459484
Dunning Krabber

>>3460063
Reading this, the whole "self discovery" statement is starting to make more sense.

>>3460055
Uh no, comic artists learn from other comic artists, animators a way more into life drawing than comic artists. If you work at Disney they have an art class for life drawing that you can go to for free and is taught by well known life drawing professors.

>>3459823
when people on /ic/ say 'just draw' that actually means >>3460063
make shit you wanna make, be unsatisfied with how shitty it looks, make conscious efforts to improve, avoid making the same mistakes over and over again, and put in time to research and study and just think about art on technical and conceptual levels, all with the goal of directly applying your revelations to new work you actually want to produce

>>3459423
>my drawings don't look like anything
yeah of course you get a C if you DON'T DRAW

>>3460063
Speaking of cheats, the japs and Koreans have plenty of this and I wish I found out about it a decade ago.

>>3459285
When applying for an animation job at a studio, they wanted to see my life drawings from college.

I went to Anime Central a few weeks ago and one of the animation guests actually recommended studying Loomis to an aspiring fan.

>>3460098
What are those cheats?

>>3459849
Who's the artist who said this and which server is this?

>>3460112
That's tehmeh and on discord DMs.

>>3460113
Holy, how did that guy got into contact with tehmeh? Was that you?

>>3460110
I can't access my laptop atm but some of them are what I call: the Lightning bolt method (better explanation, process gifs, that one cheat where you use a soft eraser on a gradient to make shadows....

It's hard to explain without the pics/gifs themselves but they really have a lot of them in Twitter. Sometimes I get lucky when the artist I follow retweets them

>>3460132
Post em please

>>3459698
I would fug that dog anyway.

t. not furfag

>>3460141
Like I said I can't access my laptop. A lot of those tutorials are saved off of random retweets but I can give you this guy's twitter
Animesijyuku

I learn a lot from his human and environment crits. It's in Japanese but you can sorta tell what he's trying to say

>>3459285
>digital art is worth more than traditional

>>3460109
Most of the professionals I know of recommend Loomis. The only things thats a meme is that Loomis is a meme. People like James Gurney, Marshall Vandruff, Jeff Watts, Feng Zhu did mention them too as being good and Karl Kopinski also studied from them.

>>3459285
The patriarchy.
Seven years ago I gave up a $80K junior designer job because a girl was there for the same job interview.
I have been jobless ever since.

>>3459693
Nigga this fucking board expects to draw like Michael Angelo right off of reading a shitty book.

>Never EVER Trace even if you are studying

I actually used to trace a lot and redlining art to study anatomy and posing when I first started to actually focus properly on learning art. It helped me out personally.

>>3460569
Speaking of tracing, this video may provide some insight on that subject among other things discussed here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_IODIIYAe0

>>3459838
>never study before creating
not native english speaker but can someone please explain what he meant by this? It kind of confused me

>>3460670
Draw for fun before drawing seriously.

>>3460670
Draw what you want to draw first.
Then, look at what went wrong.
Study to improve that.

Do that again 1000 times.

>>3460677
>>3460676
thanks!

>>3460388
Your shitpost reminded me of this

>>3459698
idk about the picture, but from the twitter this is a very capable artist. he did that animation of the girl turning into the dragon that went around tumblr for a while.

>>3460719
>that was 4 years ago
Was it really that bad already?

>>3460719
is actually true that women are over represented in the arts, which means that as a man you get the 'female privilege' of free drinks and career help for flirting/fucking old people.

>>3460719
if you can't out-draw these ethnic girls you're supposedly better than, you deserve poverty

>>3460719
>company explains they wanted to diversify their employee demographic

Damn, and this is still an issue...

>>3460722
yes white male losers were blaming everyone else for their problems as far back as 2014

>>3460724
While I agree in general, being able to out-draw them isn't necessarily what they're always looking for.
I haven't really had a problem with "but muh diversity" personally, but I don't live in America.
>>3460733
Vocal losers from each group blame other groups and reee the loudest, it is what it is.

>>3460022
R I B B I T

>>3459285
On this board:

>Only doing studies is a waste of time.

No it is not, it gives you a very implicit knowledge about form, light, how to render details, etc....

No wonder animu is so prevalent in this place

>>3460284
True. But being that it is a meme, a lot of beginners might blow off what is actually sound advice: Study real life and anatomy and get a sound foundation.

>>3460670
I think he means that if you want to draw something, you should first try to do it on your own and only after that look for references to see where you fucked up and fix it, instead of securing the references first and copying them (consciously or not).

>>3459285
I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND IF IM SUPPOSED TO COPY SHIT

I DON'T WANT TO PAINT WHY WOULD I DO MASTER COPIES

I JUST WANT TO LEARN TO DRAW COMICS

>>3460772
copy comics
jesus

>>3459285
>guy who can't even animate a proper run cycle and has a terrible sense of timing and spacing has shitty opinions

color me surprised

>>3460787
Forgot link: https://twitter.com/tonikopantoja/status/936937157259706368

>zero shoulder movement
>zero hip movement
>zero head movement
>"lesson coming soon with entire intro to 2d animation video course package I've been working on"

N-...no thanks...

>>3460787
To be fair he/she doesn't say anything about how effective it is, just that people like saying it

>>3460798
Lol youre so fucking triggered

>>3460805
>point out monstrous flaws in somebody's work that he actually plans on disseminating to the public as "teaching material" even though, as a professional himself, there's no way in hell he doesn't "know better"

>LOL XD

.(You)

>>3460825
What do you expect, a rotoscoped run cycle? Post work

>>3460615
>Japanese artists copy each other all the time

I know this is an odd question to ask, but what do they mean by "copy". Is it copy what's in front of you, or trying to draw fan art of those characters they try to copy? Or is it both? Maybe I'm over thinking this...

>>3460126
Who is tehmeh?

>>3459698
He's still better than you'll ever be.

>>3459719

Are... are you serious bro?

>>3459719
BAAAhahaa look at all this salt

This board is pathetic

>>3460832
>a run cycle has to be rotoscoped to have proper movement

lol

Anyway, I pointed out the very obvious flaws with his cycle, whether you "believe me" or not is inconsequential, they're right in your fucking face-you have no reason to defend him. He intends to sell objectively bad shit to people that don't know any better. Literally just compare that run to your Williams book. Our shoulders, pelvis and head couldn't POSSIBLY remain on a completely flat trajectory like that.

I love Toniko's drawing style personally and I have nothing against him personally but he doesn't seem to have his heart in this teaching shit.

>>3460858
http://www.artstation.com/olly
used to post here

>>3460926
>he doesn't seem to have his heart in this teaching shit
implying anyone does.
all teachers in the art world do it because there are thousands of desperate people who will ngmi - because talent is actually a thing but nobody wants to admit it

>>3459719
This. His art looks like shit.

>a run cycle has to be rotoscoped to have proper movement

lol

Anyway, I pointed out the very obvious flaws with his cycle, whether you "believe me" or not is inconsequential, they're right in your fucking face-you have no reason to defend him. He intends to sell objectively bad shit to people that don't know any better. Literally just compare that run to your Williams book. Our shoulders, pelvis and head couldn't POSSIBLY remain on a completely flat trajectory like that.

I love Toniko's drawing style and I have nothing against him personally but he doesn't seem to have his heart in this teaching shit and it makes what he says in the op all the more ironic.

>>3460719
maybe I don't get out enough but this sounds like something that would never happen

>>3459285
>just draw from life :)
kek that's what I told my cousin who wants to draw manga. He's spent the last six months drawing pomegranates

>>3460984
nothing like throwing a spanner in an artist's work

>>3459285
never read a book made by this hack

>>3460984
The joke will be on you when he draws an autistic manga about ponegranate appreciation that takes off like wildfire in Japan.

The "fundamentals" meme. Form, shapes, value, what the fuck ever it doesn't fucking work. I was grinding for years and only started getting better when I stopped gesture drawing. Never doing that shit again.

>>3461006
Gesture drawing is the only thing in drawing that isn't a meme, NGMI.

>>3460984
His manga is going to be infinitely incredible

>>3459655
People often praise life drawing as the ultimate solution to all art related problems.
Protip: drawing from life without learning about line quality and perspective will give you maybe 15% of the potential gains.

>>3461012
I agree, i think the problem is that there are so many sources that are shit at explaining gesture drawing for real, so everyone does shit gesture drawings for a long time and then complain that they don't get better.

>>3460719
>All starter level jobs are for women
What did you expect? Women are fickle and will either quit or get pregnant and "reorganize their lives" before they're qualified for a promotion.
Hiring only females for the lower end jobs is how CEOs and managers can make sure nobody shows up to mess with their system while keeping a "diverse and open work enviroment" facade.

>>3460832
>ask a question for an answer that's already there, write a dumb false dichotomy, deflect by telling to post work

>>3460931
>Literally just compare that run to your Williams book. Our shoulders, pelvis and head couldn't POSSIBLY remain on a completely flat trajectory like that.

What about track and field runners like Usain Bolt? His head doesn't seem to bob up and down when he runs. That's probably proper running form.

>>3461232
I wonder why he couldn’t find a higher-than-starter-level job.

>>3460615
>Copying the outline
>Trace

NO!! NO NO NO!
I WAS TOLD THIS IS WRONG TO DO!! I WAS LIED TOO!! LIIIIIIEEEEEDDDDD!!

>>3460615
>>3460569
This, these memes held me back for too long.

Good info here as to why, especially when trying to anime style, copying and tracing is necessary >>3458834

>>3459423
Most art teachers are like that
>i want you to make mistakes,dont delete your wrong lines,the process is the important thing!
>gee why doesnt this look perfect?terrible

>>3459285
Grinding is a meme

To some degree its true but anatomy and learning to draw forms in perspective and animation its not

>>3463975
What is it a meme for then

>>3460388
I'm pretty sure this is how I got my first job.
tnx bois.

>>3460057
Same. Grinding Loomis automatons for no end and wasted a couple years. Should have copied + applied construction. But was a retard.

>>3460073
The process of making conscious effort to improve often includes grinding fundies as well. It's not black and white. Do both. Art you want to make and exercises you know will help you.

>>3460761
That's important. But Loomis shouldn't be the first step. First step should be learning to draw (to see) i.e measuring or 'classical drawing'. Then you move on to Loomis and anatomy. That will take the frustration from the begs when they fail over and over even making a straight line or copying angles or getting an even tone. You will fail at construction without being able to draw first.

>>3460057
Got the link to this video?

>>3465528
You can jump from the video.

>>3464821
You don't use loomis you fucking retard

>>3465819
What

Do NOT copy.

Instead analyze what you are seeing and then try to replicate it. But go further, try and draw the next part of whatever it was without looking at your reference. Then after look at your reference and compare. You will see the mistakes and you will fix them. Your reference should lead you forward a little bit and then you take the next step. Only look at the reference when you are lost.

For example if you are drawing the ear, try and guess where it would be places and then draw it, check your reference to see if you are on track. If not correct yourself and repeat.

You learn a million times faster this way and eventually you will no longer need reference.

>>3460724
>prestigious internship
>finalist position
i'd give him the benefit of the doubt

>>3459285
MFW this entire board is full of people who fell for the OP. I feed off everyone here who will never make it. IT gives me life energy. The more people tell each other that life drawing doesn't fix all of your problems and the more you enable each other's weaknesses, the more i'm convinced that most people don't have what it takes. Truth is that the average /ic/ poster doesn't deserve to make it, because the first thing people do at the first sign of hard work is make excuses as to why they shouldn't. /ic/ used to have a work ethic and there used to be skilled people here, but they have all left. This place is like a lemming train drowning itself in a pool of their own tears. It's all as easy as drawing what you see.

>>3465973
The real joke is on you, you don’t think any of this is a reflection of your character?

>>3465973
>It's all as easy as drawing what you see.
this, fuck off ngmi retards

>>3465941
>Instead analyze what you are seeing and then try to replicate it.

>do NOT copy
>instead, copy

>>3465528
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_IODIIYAe0

>>3459423
not entirely on topic with the thread but i need to get it off my chest

the year i learned that an education in the "arts" is worth less than nothing
>be in highschool "advanced placement" art class
>told that if i work really hard and do my absolute best, i can use the finished work in my portfolio to get into a good art college
>spend most of the year pouring my heart and soul into my pieces
>end of the year arrives
>teacher has everyone pick out a few favorites to show the class
>really pumped to show off months of hard work
>first presentation is of a few shitty pictures a photography-fag took LAST SUMMER in paris
>teacher goes nuts over it
>next handful of students to present are also photo-fags
>teacher showers them with praise while the artists in the room roll their eyes
>friend showcases a few well-done but cartoony pieces
>teacher all but ignores the presentation
>present my own work with extinguished enthusiasm and get back to my seat as quickly as possible
>hear photography kids bragging later about how they spent most of the year skipping out on class to go jack off
>most of them literally took pictures of things on the campus a day before presentations were due

>mid-summer vacation
>get back my "graded" portfolio from some college our teacher had everyone submit to
>open up a little note saying they couldn't grade my portfolio because they "lost" one of my pieces
>portfolios w/o a certain number of works weren't eligible for grades
>throw entire thing in the trash and go back to playing videogames with my friends

waste of time. glad i decided against going into debt for the sake of art college. the only thing i learned in all my art classes is that photographers walk around with their heads up their asses

>>3466257
What do you do now though?

>>3466260
i work a comfy desk job i dont have to try at that pays a liveable wage. sometimes when i have nothing to do, i spend half an hour sketching. when i get home i have 4-5 hours to draw. my SO even offered to cover living expenses by himself for a couple months if i wanted to take that time off work to just pursue my art and see how it goes. im planning to take him up on that offer after i've payed off some more of my credit card so im not too much of a burden during that time.

>>3466262
that's sweet of him to do.

>>3459285
Years ago I fell for the photorealistic painting memes on youtube, as well as photobashing and speedpaintings. I used to watch the videos and wonder how anyone could be this good.

Thank god I got saved by ConceptArt when it was still good. Ironically, I had to leave that crap because it started promoting those same damn things.

>>3465822
And you can't draw.

>>3459849
>>3459838
This is wrong. I've been doing pieces without proper fundamentals and guess what - they were fundamentally broken. You have to grind fundamentals before anything else, unless you are satisfied with shitty work every time you do it.

>>3468349
You misunderstood.
He was basically saying to attempt the drawing first THEN study.

If you wanna draw a badass car, first attempt to draw the car from your head. And since you're obviously garbage, you look at the car and ask yourself "man, what did I do wrong" and fix it from there using your fundies (adjusting perspective, drawing real cars, etc).

>>3468409
Alright but that's bollocks too, because if I want to draw a character in perspective, I have to know anatomy and perspective A+, because everything else will look very incorrectly. It doesn't take a lot of brainpower to understand that you have to learn whole perspective in order to draw shit and I very much doubt that it's about fixing just small parts like arms or whatever. If you can draw a correct, whole body in perspective, having a problem with an arm is really irrelevant, at this point you are good enough. For beginners it's never simple.

>>3468417
>Alright but that's bollocks too, because if I want to draw a character in perspective, I have to know anatomy and perspective A+, because everything else will look very incorrectly

That's 100% false. Stop being retarded.
If you want to draw something, do it now. Then study up and fix said image via references or fundies. Don't learn the subject first, attempt it, fail, then fix. Do you not know how humans function? This applies to all things, not just drawing.

>>3468465
It's pointless to draw things if you don't know how to draw them. Draw a guy from above while not knowing anatomy or perspective, I dare you.

>>3460206
>that twitter
I wish I knew nip

Life drawing classes are invaluable, but lately I’ve been thinking about it and I think it’s more helpful to just do studies of muscle systems in anatomy books. It gives you better intuition for how to pose things and logic for how to draw them. Life drawing is good but Understanding the body mentally is of equal importance

>>3460825
>>3461527
You BTFO'ed that guy you're arguing with pretty hard, nice.

>>3459423
What is this symbol drawing thing though? It actually sounds really interesting to me.

>>3459698
I will fight you if you keep applying autism to this 50x50px avatar of a cute cartoon anthropomorphic puppy. Do you need a Snickers?

>>3468535

Symbol drawing = the way children and untrained people draw. I.e. a hand is circle with five sticks or an eye is an almond with a dot and straight lines radiating from it's borders. It conveys the subject on a symbolical level.

>>3459285
>haha life drawing is useless people telling me to do it are retarded
>proceeds to only make flat symbol drawn cartoons, zero knowledge of fundamentals

>>3459285
>you wont learn anything from doIng X, its a literal waste of time. Stop doing X and do X! You need to learn the X before you can X!

>wow you suc, go back.

>redlines something but they suck at it.

>ask for feedback, get ignored.

and general crab psychology,
/ic/ critism in a nutshell.

>>3468535
>>3468543
It's actually a total meme phrase. It can either mean drawing what you imagine something to look like rather than drawing it from observation or simply drawing without form or a combination of the two. Drawing teachers nowadays are usually too stupid to make those distinctions which leads to confusion and a whole class of people being unable to draw from imagination.

>>3468582
That's basically it. Most people here will tell you to stop drawing something and practice something else instead. They even give an exercise, like to draw 50 figures before drawing your character. This puts on the mindset of "I need to grind by drawing 5,000 human figures before I even ATTEMPT my waifu", only to find out their waifu won't get any better cause they never practice them.

Sure, fundies and drawing from life helps, but the crabs here need to understand you gotta draw what love.

>>3460993
i would read a fucking fruit manga

>>3460615
this guy said he cheated to get work done, he is not saying a hobbyist should do such a thing or that he made a career by copying

>>3465996
kek

>>3469050
You'll hit a plateau eventually and then you'll never improve. See mikufag flatberry tableguy and more.

>>3468601
>or simply drawing without form

What do you mean, just by lines alone without much depth and perspective to give "form"?

>>3460724
>Implying it's based on skill

>>3460733
t. roastie

>>3470326
>He didn't watch the video

You can't be a crab even if you tried.

>>3459285
>memes you fell for

Life.

>>3466262
idk where you live but you should look into workshops as opposed to art school if you can afford it. something like brainstorm where you go once or twice a week and fits into your schedule might be really helpful.

>>3470326
Mikufag? Who’s that

>>3468543
I dunno it sounds kind of interesting if you use it as just a phase of compositions. Understanding how symbols register with the reader and arranging them with that in mind seems like a good start. That’s the theory behind the silhouette test isn’t it?
But if that’s where it ends and someone just basically ink over a shape without fleshingnit out and making it something “more” than just a simplified recogniseable shape, then they’re just a lazy artist who wants excuses not to try.

>>3469172
and he's also only talking about backgrounds

>>3470334
It means drawing something flat without any hint of depth, which you gain through knowledge of perspective. As the other guy mentioned, idiots misuse "symbol drawing" for anything that looks shitty but the phrase alone is worthless.

If someone tells you to >stop symbol drawing, it's about as helpful as saying >stop drawing like crap.

The term originally referred to drawing what you think something looks like instead of how it is in front of you, but obviously this is utterly useless if you're trying to draw from imagination.

When I was a kid a teacher told me you can't make money with art, soon afterwards I stopped drawing. In retrospect she was always an old bitter hag and clearly hated kids. Basically "lost" over 15 years of drawing experience because of that stupid bitch

>>3471859
>drawing something flat without any hint of depth

Sadly thats how it is for me, its difficult to break out of this, especially because I don't know how to do realistic shading

>>3465941
GMI

>>3459285
If you draw what you love and improve on what you did wrong, you'll improve.

>>3473017
That’s not a meme though.

>>3468535
It means you are drawing what you think something looks like, instead of what is actually is. For example, let's say you want to draw an eye and you draw a flat lemon with two circles in it and some hairs around it (symbol) instead of an ellipse circle with a flat iris inside.

It's a huge meme around here, but understanding what it is, how to prevent it, or how to use it can make your art fundamentally better.

>>3473501
That's an eye with form but it is still someone's impression of what an eye looks like (not drawn from observation) which by definition is what symbol drawing is, so once again symbol drawing is a total meme phrase. Whenever you hear someone say it, ignore them because they don't know what they are talking about.

>>3459285
Fell for doing creature design. I noticed the majority happen to be women who are interested due to 'I love creature design since I was little XD XD', they have a fetish for fucking them, or they were simply edgy by being 'I don't draw girls and pretty things :D'.

Just leave men to do creature design, and hopefully these women artists don't eventually contaminate mech or machinery concept art.

>>3473531
>and hopefully these women artists don't eventually contaminate mech or machinery concept art.
Need a more technical male brain for that stuff probably, have you even heard of a woman interested in designing/drawing mecha and complex machines?

>>3473525
You missed the point.

>>3473531
Never knew that women were infested in creature design. Time to get in that.

>>3471438
ha- i was fortunate enough to never fell for the art college meme
workshops are a good suggestion, but i live in the middle of nowhere so ):

>>3468473
The point is
>draw thing
>inevtably fuck up
>study
>redraw thing having studied
>fuck up less
rinse and repeat. Study without drawing kills drive.

>>3473549
If you include those who draw Transformers fail, then yes. Otherwise, no.

>>3459285

that art school is a waste a time. loooooool

>>3459285
I remember my art teacher saying that it’s fine if your anatomy is off if you’re going for a cartoonish style. I guess she’s not necessarily wrong but I feel like you need some remote understanding of decent anatomy even for cartoons.

>>3473807
She wasnt saying you dont need anatomy you twit, she was saying that it doesnt necessarily need to be so stringent.

>>3466257
man that fucking sucks. at least youre not in debt. i hear art degrees are useless to an extent

>>3470326
draw whst you love while also practicing fundies. its not that hard duh

>>3475426
This. I've seen many artists even in other countries say that they're in debt. Most of them can't even afford to live on their own and have to share an apartment if they want to pay the installments

>>3475497
That's a good thing

>>3475501
Yeah, it's a precautionary tale for any student. Gotta hit them with reality that you don't go straight to making tv shows/ work on comics or movies right after you graduate.

>>3460835
If i recall correctly Urasawa make a big deal of a mangaka that "discovered" just drawing the nostrils of the nose to increase the appeal of the girls. A lot copied that.

>>3476173
Theres so many ways to portray the nose in anime, from dot to line to more defined nose I wonder if theres a guideline for how to do it depending on the type of work it is be it fanart, actual production, etc or if its just a personal choice.

>>3476173
I wonder if there are any books talking about artistic conventions like these that make manga look like manga and how they came about. It's like its own visual language.

>>3460206
Hmmm pretty useful!

>>3465982
>just draw what you see bruh
>never able to draw from imagination because he's a human photocopier
lol ok NGMI

>>3473682
not that anon but if you're a complete begginer why not just study a bit of the fundies like perspective and draftmanship for like a month and THEN apply the knowledge you have drawing whatever you lack and then see what you lack and go back only to the subjects that you have problems with?
it doesnt really matter, when you get started it becomes a cycle of
>do drawing from imagination
>fuck up
>study
>repeat
or
>study
>draw from imagination
>fuck up
>repeat
but saying you must start by studying or drawing is pointless and makes begginers more confused with conflicting information imo

Construction. It's definitely a fucking meme and I can't find the "form" anywhere in Jap drawings.

>>3480839
i think construction is like the brute force of drawing
it works, its requires more effort to do but its guaranteed to work

anyone half decent isnt going to do it like that though

>>3480839
construction is for realistic art.
anime is not realistic.

>>3480839
The entire purpose of 'form' is simply to tell your brain those parts are in 3D. With that mindset, you give the drawing more depth. Construction isn't needed if you already have a strong grasp on depth.

>>3480839
You might be retarded, or looking at the wrong (bad) jap artists.

>>3480904
I think there might be some confusion about what the term even means. The way I explain it 'construction' is just the general mindset of 'thinking in 3D'.Anyone who draws like >>3481088
is going to be thinking in 3D - that is, constructing - even though good artists may not need to actually draw the construction lines. They'll still be processing basic 3D shapes in their mind, breaking them apart, etc.

I've seen enough newbies be confused about the phrase 'think in 3D' and what it means, so I can definitely see why teachers usually teach a specific construction method. But construction isn't some dogma where you MUST do it in a specific way ALWAYS, it's just taught like that because it makes it easier to explain in steps - rather than just saying 'think in 3D and draw the rest of the fucking owl'.

>>3460719
Well thats depressing. Back when I was a kid I always dreamed of living in America some day. Not anymore.

>>3460993
If that ever happens I'm buying cousins manga and asking for anons autograph on it. My dick is diamonds

>>3461537
Probably because he's an artist and has no experience in office jobs? Read the post again. I doubt he had any schools related to that buisness to raise his desireability.

>>3480593
Thats literally how you learn to draw tho.
Protip: Draw the rest of the fucking owl isn't a meme

>>3471994
I had a teacher tell me that my drawings were garbage and that I sucked when I was 7, made me cry so hard I didn't pick it back up until I was 20, now I get to struggle with things I should've been way past now
Fuck old hag women teachers

>>3460768
Correct. Also try as hard as you can to do it from memory, really trying to find the forms. Then when you get stuck and look at reference (don't spend too long looking for refs) the things you forgot about and didn't know will jump out, and you will learn.

>>3468417
Ngmi

>>3471834
please be bait

>>3459821
it does though.
ESPECIALLY on /ic/ were most people are deviantart tier people who don't even have the arm muscle mass to control their lines properly. minute details always work on the long run, if they don't you aren't pushing yourself hard enough and you forget your progress between each piece. Drawing isn't like bike riding, you actually forget about how to do it over time, and it goes away fast, 3 weeks are enough to get back to needing the basics.

>>3461006
>Form, shapes, value, what the fuck ever it doesn't fucking work.
you are fucking retarded I guess?