/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3427730
japs have all the lore of calligraphy and ukiyo-e (and shunga) and that somehow ended up translating to manga style with the help of disney. western artists don't have that same heritage, especially americans. their attempts to "adopt" manga style were pretty bad desu... the french were better at it because their comics always had more "malleable" looks to them, in a way.

Then there are artists like Akairiot that stick to modern anime guidelines, he even sticks to a sameface style so he can't possibly ruin the consistency yet it is painfully obvious this was drawn by a western dude.
Why is that?

>>3427730
If by western you mean white people then it's because they don't want to be seen as a weeb by their families as they know that's a straight path to NGMI. There are plenty of western artists that can do anime stylization. Sakimichan even counts as western. There are a ton of western artists if you care enough to go look at their place of origin on their social medias.

>>3427730
>>3427736
Maybe u should ask...

...you're mom...

XD

>>3427730
It always seems like girls can draw anime better and it looks more like a jap drew it.

>>3427730
I think there might be some survivorship bias at play here. We only know of good manga style by Japanese because they are good and get attention for us to have heard of them. Shitty Japanese artists aren't going to be promoted as much so maybe we just don't see it as much.

Also it could be that the appeal for westerners to do manga style overlaps a wide majority of people who would suck just as bad at doing any other sort of art. Manga style attracts a lot of people who think it would be easy because manga style is deceptively easy looking.

>>3427766
Nah, just bum around pixiv and compare it to bumming around deviantart.
Even shitty Japanese artists are better than shitty western ones.

>>3427730
Most artists immediately attempt to imitate eastern stylized art instead of learning realism and fundamentals first. If they do this, they can better understand the anatomy and shapes that make anime look like anime.

>>3427772
That's a meme. Most anime art looks the same because they're all copying each other

>>3427774
would you say a jap or westerner drew the picture you replied to?

>>3427781
A jap who tried learning art the western way and then converting it back into anime.

>>3427786
What

>>3427730
Its because people are surrounded by anime growing up. On tv, in movies, in the mall, in the stores. Kids read manga and watch anime. Anyone who grew up in japan and didnt watch anime or read manga was considered a loser by other kids. Here in the west is different. We have disney, cartoon network, nikelodeon, etc. Its only recently that anime has been popular in west. Anime was the disney cartoons of japan.
Thats why anime is much easier for japanese people. Because they see it all the time.
On the flip side japanese people cant draw western cartoons well they all end up looking a lot like anime.

>>3427736
lines are too thick. It feels too comic-ish for me

I own a copy of this book. I got it when I was like 9 years old. I can't even get rid of it because it's so cringey it's gold.

>>3427766
>We only know of good manga style by Japanese because they are good
No. That's more or less true if you only read popular manga, but there's a lot of mediocre stuff that gets translated, especially hentai, but they all have a distinctive style that allow you to tell at a glance than the artist is Japanese.

>>3427786
No, it was Marmalade Mum who drew it.

"Artists" from Spain are known for have flooded the "Learn how to manga" market all along mid 90's till now. And ow man THEY SUCK SO BAD.
So they basically had taught a whole generation of weeaboos to be lame sucky mangakas.
Thank you Spain.

>>3428994
>be /beg/ tier
>publish how to draw books anyway
devilish

>>3429005
Profitable too.

>>3429005
cripples kids by teaching them retarded things, while getting paid, ic crabs need to take note, this is how it's done

Shindol draws anime ok

>>3427736
I'm not sure I'd agree it's painfully obvious but I think it's probably because his artwork experiments with different drawing techniques instead of just sticking to one style. Also uses quite thicc lines which could also be a reason. Personally I'm a big fan of that drawing style so I'm glad you introduced him to me.

>>3428994
la creatura...

>>3427730

It seems to have to to do with the line style and how they render the anatomy than anything.

Its easy to tell who drew this, right?

>>3428994
>Go to the biggest manga/anime store there is in my city(which is, like, 1 out of 3 stores overall)
>This "stuff" is still polluting the shelves
Even when I was starting to watch Naruto like 10 years ago I realized there could be no worse guide because all they are teaching is how to trace their already ugly style to everyone and the fact that this still exists its mindblowing

>>3429155
He's also half Japanese

>>3430347
>Its easy to tell who drew this, right?
Gashi right? My favorite westaboo.

Chiming in as somebody who occasionally accepts "anime-style" commissions, if I had to comment on what it is that separates Japanese styles from Western styles, one thing is line weight and understanding aesthetic application, another is their accessibility to pose catalogues which whilst are in abundance within Japan, are practically unknown to most amateur artists within the West. Another is that with these "anime styles" specifically Japanese artists tend to understand better that you can achieve greater stylistic expression if you focus on placing a lot of detail in places where it doesn't count (clothing, hair etc.), and lots of detail in places where you would normally think it would count (face, body etc.), which is why you often see these very appealing looking illustrations of knightly women clad in intricate armour sets, but then sporting totally blank, barren faces. Western art tends to take a different route, pencilling in large amounts of detail everywhere.

>yet many Japanese beginners nail these styles with seeming ease
In my experience this really isn't the case at all and is based almost exclusively off of the fact that you're being exposed to only the "good" Japanese art. Try browsing Danbooru or Pixiv for Japanese fanart of existing characters. Most of it is actually dogshit, Deviantart-tier garbage that you'd almost definitely mistake for being created by a Western artist.

I personally don't enjoy the anime commissions all that much though. I find them to be too restrictive and rigid in their expression. There's only so many times you can illustrate a cute 18-y/o-something, underweight girl in chic, semi-realistic fashions before you start to get bored out of your fucking skull.

Pic related is a current WIP commission.

>>3427769
>bum around pixiv
I do regularly with Japanese tags.
It's filled with absolute garbage. Both sides of the coin have their shit. And
>Tumblr art
As bad as it is, is about as technically sound as most stuff on pixiv that gets put in mediocre tier.

There's plenty of westerners that can handle anime, and many more that got bored of it quickly since we're not getting published manga so they move on to more technically challenging art that utilizes some of the anime style, which leads to the more realistic anime styles you see which is more dominated by western artists while eastern tend to stick to the lower technical challenging stylized works. Which isn't to say either is better, but the east heavily promotes the 2d style while the West doesn't so there's no real sticking point for westerners to keep doing it once they've gotten good enough to master it.
>>3427781
For fun id say westerners just because the need to say
>私は
Which most Japanese omit.

>>3430473
terrible linework friend

>>3430473
Blog?

>>3430485
post work

>>3430473
>ugly nose and disgusting fat lip

Japanese here. I don't get why westerners have to copy anime style perfectly. Anime is kind of the Japanization of western style like Disney. And it has its own appeal now. Then you should just westernize the anime style again. Nothing will acquire new appeal unless you "localize" it more or less.

>>3427736
> Too many curves
> Outline too thick
> Can hand anatomy wonky
> Bg color too dark, not the right hue
> Eyes seem too close together and dimensionless
> Mouth looks like it is hovering over face
> Feet too big
> Chicken scratch/ poor line discipline observed

>>3430485
Not sure why you're trying to judge a product as complete when it's very clearly incomplete. If you're any good at art then you should know that good lineart comes in after you've filled in the base lines and can start working on definition and depth through adjusting lineweights.

>>3430489
Sorry man, I don't have one.

>>3430509
Commissioner wants a drawing of Futaba Sakura from the Persona series.

>>3427730
原始的海報是同性戀

the diff is lone quality. orientals focus on sharp, precise, weighted strokes. whitefolk tend to just crap out really thick lines with no method to their madness.

I still maintain my argument that Emmet Elvin is the worst.

Pay no mind to the Eugene Felder name on these books. He's actually got some talent, he was just unfortunately roped into this nonsense.

You're only seeing the best of manga art because you're only seeing the artist that actually get published, as they're the only ones that get translated and posted. Go search pixiv for 5 minutes and you will see a whole lot of deviantart-tier art.

pic related: the original webcomic art of One Punch Man.

Having lived in Japan for a year now I can quite confidently say; I have no idea what I'm doing.

But hey, at least there's some decent advice floating around from the locals. Pic related, "the secret to creating cute Japanese mango" - Apparently there's a stronger focus on line weight, using as thin a line as possible, with the left most image being a Western attempt at making a cute Japanese character.

>>3433104
Are you a pro? Why do you live in Japan?

idk, who said it (maybe sinix) that u can spot a western anime artist intimidatingly by trying to give everything to much form.

>>3433104
Thin lines work sometimes but I've seen tons of thicker lines used as well and works fairly well. Though this is different than the deep bold lines in comic books it's not all about the small lines.
Also with your picture it's similar to other Japanese attempts I've seen especially with lower quality cute doujins. The middle one being extremely common with younger character seeking to emphasize the softness of their cheeks. That abyss manga comes to mind iirc.

>>3433135
>trying to give everything to much form.
You're gonna have to elaborate on that because i didn't understand a single thing about it.

>>3433180
basically from what I understand, the people who make anime make faces like they r stickers on a mannequin. stuff like that

>>3433135
>>3433180
Don't bother. Sinix is retard who doesn't know shit about anime besides his retarded meme. Alchemaniac work for japs as example.

>>3433135
One thing sinix has only recently been starting to figure out is anime, so go find your inspiration for that somewhere else.

>mfw just remembered that Sinix is that guy who actually tells Sycra to follow his ugly pointy chin style
ahhhh

>>3433232
Man, I miss sycra, I wonder what he's up to these days.

>>3433135
>too much form
Everything in this image looks like a cardboard cutout though.

>>3433104
I like the leftmost picture the best

>>3433106
Honestly just kind of because I can, I'm living in Tokyo for probably up to the end of the year, learning Japanese and taking in the atmosphere, then I was thinking about heading over to Russia for a year while I finish up learning Russian. It feels a little strange but I've had the chance to meet all kinds of really high profile people, the humid summers are killing me though.
>>3433149
True that thicker lines can be and are used, but if we're talking about peoples favorite animu, say something like Kobayashi-san Chi no Maid Dragon, then something similar to the second, (round and ever so slightly blobby cheeks style) are used for the children, but it lacks some of the details commonly used, though shading and color could fix that. IIRC Japanese audiences liked the art used for Date A Live - It was super popular for a while here, I'm not sure why, the show was garbage. Kimi No Na Wa also uses a pretty uniformly thin line. It might be the problem between comparing art and animation.
>>3433447
It reminds me a little of simple moe blobs or characters used for low quality children's toons in Japan like クレヨンしんちゃん (Crayon Shin chan), but it's probably not going to be your goal.

>>3433685
What kind of really high profile people if you don't mind. Like just what is really high profile anyways?

>>3433705
Mostly the CEO and senior management type of various companies, a long time TV Drama director, my personal favorite was the CFO of Square Enix, he was super chill. As for artists, there are plenty around but it's hard to take on advice when you somewhat speak the language, but go to something like Comiket and you're bound to meet plenty of artists.

>>3433685
>just kind of because I can
What do you do and how can I do it too?

>>3427735
how are the french raised that give their art and animation that "french" look? its always puzzled me. i can firmly tell where something is made in terms of artstyle and describe what gives it away
But for the frogs? I can't put it into words. There is something about the french and the way they make their artwork that is really difficult to put into words.

>>3435631
I used to work for a pretty large security company, got know know our ceo and state managers personally, spent a few years raking in dough while working my tushie off, now I do art and teach kids English, with an occasional corporate contract. IT transferred to Arts (Languages) degree, but I've been lazy and spent too much recently so now I have to work more.
Teaching is super easy to do in Japan, as long as you either have a degree or are from a country with a working holiday deal with Japan. Other than that, if desperate to live here, either teach for three years in Thailand or something or marry someone, then teach here. Native speakers of English (or close enough to) only though.
Also learn some damn Japanese if youre going to live here, so many filthy gaijin cant speak a word of it. Took me a while but I'm slightly less filthy gaijin now.

>>3427730
They've obviously never learned the authentic manga style drawing
>>3435781

>>3433232
A true professional crab

>>3436665
Fug, at least I've been learning japanese for a while so maybe I can just marry someone and go from there

>>3427730
Are there any japanese artists that look like they are western artists trying to drawing anime? I'm asking because I want to know if levels of irony are possible.

>>3436936
first thing that came to mind was the style of Panty and Stocking

>>3427730
anime linedrawings are made out of elongated moonrunes

Brekk?

>>3439030
anatomy not loli enough for anime

>>3439030
This isn't Japanese? It's damn nice and I would have thought it was.

>>3439030
>generic leg pose
Next time you save something ask yourself what the fuck are they doing, it is very unnatural and awkward. Nobody fucking does that and furthermore her pelvis is fucked I would hate to wake up in the morning after splitting my fucking spinal cord into two.

>>3439260
>butthurt landwhale detected

Sorry, just because you're completely immobile from eating too many zebra cakes doesn't mean others have the same problem you greasy, hairy bitch lmao

>>3439265
Her spine is broken into two. It looks fucking retarded. Stop thinking with your dick for once and look at it with a critical perspective you nigger.

>>3439266
it's not meant to be real life broski

>>3439268
Not an argument.
>I-it's not meant to be real life!
The absolute fucking state of this board.

>>3439271
>my cartoon anime girls have to be 100% anatomically correct for me to enjoy the art!
meanwhile half of all anime characters looks like midgets with tits if you used real life standards of anatomy

>>3439266
go back to tumblr

>>3439271
Nico-Nico-Not Gonna Make It Faggot

>>3439276
Just stop replying while you're still ahead you imbecile, do you even know what the fuck you're saying? What you describe as "anime characters" are figures simplified to meet a budget and look good in movement for animation on the cheap hence why we have a deviation from life if you want to get to the nitty gritty of anatomy.

>>3439277
This proves nothing, here's your (you) for trying faggot.

>>3439260
>generic leg pose

there are only so many positions you can place your legs in

>>3439260
>>3439280
your move

>>3439280
>this proves nothing

crabs got nothin

>>3439280
It proves you're a fucking idiot like you do every time you make yet another useless crab post on this board you should have been banned from long ago. Go back to whatever padded room you crawled out from you autistic retard lmao

>>3439283
Her spine is clearly withing levels of tolerance, if you're implying that this somehow helps correlate with the other figure not being fucked try harder.

>>3439280
>it's ok if they do it for animation but not for still pictures

>>3439288
>actually more bend than the drawing
>calls it still within tolerance

kek

>>3439285
>/ic/ is one person
You clearly have an angst against someone here and I am guessing they didn't play assgrab with you and shower you with praise and upboats. If you are looking for a butt buddy I suggest you fuck off back to your cancerous safespace.

>>3439291

>>3439279
What the fuck?

>>3439297
>proves that the spine is more flexible than your retarded ass realizes
>this is somehow cherry picking
Save yourself the embarrassment and just hide the thread until it gets pruned because that anon make you look like an idiot.

>>3439294
>>3439297
you know nothing of spine anatomy which makes sense seeing as you yourself are spineless

>>3439279
Are all crabs this deranged? No wonder this board is a fucking shithole.

>>3439305
>thinks artists aren't actually totally insane
Man have I got news for you

>>3439301
We have yet to see anyone give an argument against the obvious anatomical flaw in >>3439030
other than >>3439291
but at this point you faggots are shitposting ironically to play the devil's advocate for shits and giggles.

>>3439304
I say again, look at it with a critical mind and honestly ask yourself is that an anatomically correct looking figure? I'm sorry but either her pelvis has a perspective of its own or the spine as well as the rest of her torso is originating from the pubic arch. On a side note, you're waifu a shit there I said it.

>>3439306
As creepy and shitty as this is I bet it's still far better than whatever this anime avatar crab tard can do

>>3439309
The argument is that there is no anatomical flaw you fucking brainlet. Neck yourself stupid nigger

>>3439313
>The argument is that there is no anatomical flaw
There's no argument that shows us there's no anatomical flaw.

>>3439318
>make positive claim
>get proven wrong
>hurrrr there was no argument
I bet your parents regret not aborting you

>>3439322
>point out that there's yet to be an argument
>reply by chimping out with insults like a nigger
Still not an argument.

>>3439309
> I'm sorry but either her pelvis has a perspective of its own

every object that is in a different rotation from other objects has its own vanishing points meaning it has its own perspective, the fact that the pelvis can and normally is at a different x pivot than the rib cage means it has its own perspective.

>>3439326
Thank you for point out the fucking obvious, the fact remains the spine is broken into two pieces.

>>3439330
you were the one who pointed it out and it is correct, the pelvis has a perspective of its own and that is normal

the spine is also technically broken into 33 pieces genius

>>3439334
Make that 34 pieces smart ass.

Moar

>>3439357
This person knows how to draw squids well.

>>3439283
sauce?

>>3439360
valentina from cl-erotic

>>3439368
thanks

>>3439280
>Getting this mad over a picture
I think it's time to put the keyboard down and take nap.

How do people feel about loli elves?

>>3439838
She's so cute. Do you have a twitter/tumblr?

>>3427730
Japan’s entire writing system is based off of being as accurate as possible, and they heavily ingrain that into kids that they have to write their Kana/Kanji correctly to a T.

Anerican kids just have to learn how to write a letter. Teachers allow 12th grade students to pass their class with the handwriting skills of a 10 year old.

Really it’s just the emphasis of not being a lazy fuck that japanese society has which causes many great artist to come from there.

>>3439888
>handwriting skills of a 10 year old
wtf do you learn about handwriting between 10-18?

>>3427730
It's the difference in mentality - ever since the Renaissance Western artists have approached the world with a greater emphasis on form. If you look at Medieval art there was almost an anime like simplicity in the shape design and colors, whereas after that subject became more a means for the artist to express his 'creativity'. Art was now less about appeal and symbolism and more about realistic form, chiaroscuro, and perspective. Then in the 19th century, along with the rediscovery of medieval styles, Japanese prints became available to the West and the Notan approach influenced Rackham and other illustrators. This current eventually gave us animation, which went over to Nippon to become anime. Meanwhile our own animation industries, having been infected by the Renaissance mind, churn out mountains of 3D garbage that we're supposed to be impressed by on account of their innovation

They weren't raised with it.

Most of the really shit anime-style artwork put out by Western artists in how to draw books and such was done when anime first started trending in the late 90s and early 2000s.

At that time it was artists jumping on to a trendy new style they didn't really understand. So it was naturally shit.

But now we have Americans who have spent their entire lives drawing anime, and the ones who bother learning how to draw and become good artists in their own right are able to draw the anime shit just as good as a Japanese person.

Also, keep in mind that we typically only see the professional or professional level work that comes out of Japan, while on the American side of the web we're exposed to DeviantArt and all that shit.

>>3440203
Is it the same for a Japanese to see only good western works simply because they can't use tags because of language barrier?

>>3440209
Apparently any country but America learns a useful second language has no issues with language barriers since they either get translations or just know enough.

>>3427772
Finally someone said something rational and coherent

>>3439843
>S-someone likes it
Are you doing us a bamboozle?
We don't like being made fun of.

>>3427741
I hate that I actually chuckled from that. Fuck you.

>>3439838
>>3440605
Not him but this is pretty good. You're on the right track even if you think you're shit right now. It doesn't really exude a loli vide though, just a short elf.

>>3440614
>>3439838
Sorry had to fix the hand, inked so I cant change it any more.

>>3439561
>s-someone thinks its c-cute
Are you doing me a bamboozle?
We dont like being made fun of.

>>3440620
>>3439838
It's a nice copy study of atall's drawings! Keep it up!

>>3440845
Aye aye, I'm planning to do all the angles of her I find before trying out strange poses.