/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3160382
something similar to Job Offers Forum on DeviantArt

>>3160382

artstation.com
reddit.com/r/forhire
reddit.com/r/gameDevClassifieds
forum.unity3d.com/forums/commercial-job-offering.49/
forums.tigsource.com/index.php?board=40.0
polycount.com/categories/freelance-job-postings
digitalwebbing.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=101

(and here's links that take you directly to search results on twitter, because lots of indie gamedevs post ads there)

twitter.com/search?q=looking%20for%20concept%20artist&src=typd
twitter.com/search?q=hiring%20concept%20artist&src=typd
twitter.com/search?q=looking%20for%20illustrator%20artist&src=typd
twitter.com/search?q=hiring%20illustrator%20artist&src=typd

but although these will get you started freelancing, most of your gigs will come from people recommending you after you've done good work for them. also networking online beats online applications by a longshot.

>>3160595
What about direct email applications?

As a freelance illustrator, I've had good success and a ton of repeat clients on Upwork. 95% of the jobs are trash (low pay, bad clients), but so are 95% of the freelancers (low skill, unprofessional). If you are friendly, thoughtful and attentive in your bids, and your work is good (and versatile), then you will definitely land regular illustration gigs.

Yes, the cut they take sucks, (20% on your first $500 with a client, then 10% on payments higher than $500), but I'd be lying if I said it ultimately wasn't worth it.

The folks who moan and complain about it being impossible to land gigs on Upwork are either
1. Bad artists with no unique style.
2. Terrible, awkward & generally unprofessional communicators.
3. Copy+pasting generic pitches instead of really reading and responding to the clients needs
4. Applying to jobs that their style is not appropriate for.

You're also at a huge advantage if you live in the US, as you can apply to "US only" jobs which often pay much, much better than global jobs.

>>3160382
>freelance illustrator and concept artist
Pick one and double down on it. There is a big difference between being a freelance illustrator and being a concept artist. You won't get anywhere by splitting your efforts in trying to grow simultaneously in both industries.

>>3160612
See pic related for advice on how to build freelance career and using email to land work. Though the thread is about job board sites, not cold-calling art directors.

>>3160641
are you already making a living out of it?
is upwork your main source of income?

>>3160595
>also networking online beats online applications by a longshot.

meant to say also networking OFFLINE beats online applications by a longshot.

>>3160699
>are you already making a living out of it?
For sure. Averaging around ~$2.5-3K/month since around May. It's not a lot, but it's a step above your standard hourly jobs and is currently more than enough for me to live off.

>is upwork your main source of income?
I'd guess maybe around 30-40% of my freelance income. It varies from month to month depending on how much time I spend looking for relevant jobs. The other chunk of my freelance income comes from following the steps I attached above (developing a portfolio and reaching out directly to art directors). Additionally, I do a lot of print + shirt sales that make up a big part of my income. I think it's really important to have diverse and varied income streams, so that if one is not preforming well, you still have others to keep you afloat just fine.

>>3160753
>>3160641
Good stuff senpai

>>3160753
>~$2.5-3K/month
i'm ok with half that lol
i'm gonna have to check that website out. is it the only one you use?
it's all through paypal right?

>print+shirt sales
what site do you use? is payout through paypal too?
do you make fanart stuff ?

i need to start getting some money, parents are starting to think im just faping all day

>>3160641
Could you unironically post your work?

>>3160753
How do you find art directos? Do you have a list?

>>3160790
> is it the only one you use?
Yes. Freelance sites are kind of all stinkers across the board, but I found Upwork to be the most well put together (and that's not saying a lot) with the best client pool.

>it's all through paypal right?
You can get paid through Paypal. I personally get it deposited into my checking account, as its simpler. You'll need to upload tax info to get paid, though. (Social security / EIN #, etc.)

>print+shirt sales
https://yuki.la/ic/3077448 - Read through this entire thread. I helped some folks here a while ago and covered pretty much everything you need to know to get started.

>>3160815
Sorry to disappoint, but I want to remain anonymous. Feel free to disregard any of my advice if you feel skeptical.

>>3160836
I helped some guy in the social media thread with this - see the attached screen shot with some methods I use for finding the art director at a business. Personally, I keep a spreadsheet of art directors and keep a record of when I last contacted them, so I know to revisit them every few months with new work.

>>3160641

Thank you for sharing senpai!

>>3160850
It's not about avoiding bad advice, but seeing the work capable of making you earn that money. Maybe the work of someone on your level?

>>3160854
>Maybe the work of someone on your level?
Sort of along the lines of this guys stuff, on this page in particular: https://aledlewis.com/tee-design/ . Big fan of his work, and mines pretty similar with a relatively clean, vibrant style with simple colors and a lot of clever & creative concepts.

>seeing the work capable of making you earn that money.
I understand this desire to see what sort of 'threshold' you need to pass in order to start making a living. However, I cannot stress enough how much to don't have to be an amazing artist to make some money freelancing as an illustrator. I don't think you need to reach a certain 'level' before you start making money. I'd really boil success down to 50% your style / skill, and 50% your promotional & entrepreneurial efforts. In other words, you develop a portfolio showing what you can do, then you do your best to sell it to those who might need it.

>>3160850
arigatou gozamaisu senpai sama

>>3160922
>gozamaisu

>>3160913
from the outside Upwork it seems difficult to get commission, is full of offert commision at $5.
So do you suggest to try? are there many customers who want art commision?

>>3160836
You call or email the company and ask for them. When I started out, back in the early 90's doing album covers, I called every record label I could fine, asked for the art department and/or art director, and asked them how to submit a portfolio, and when. Every single one responded. Not everyone hired me at first, but they all responded. It's their job. Want to work doing book companies? Call them, ask for the art department. Not as may companies take unsolicited portfolios these days, but enough do. Don't give up if they don't hire you. Send supplemental work as you progress, you never know which piece will click for them. Maintain a portfolio site, and send out emails to them when you update it, and try to update it every quarter.
As an art director told me, when i started out (I asked for tips) you have to get their attention, and keep it. You have to remind them you're out there. Don't flood them with stuff, but send them an update every 4 months or so. Maintain a mailing list - art directors move around alot, so your list can be useless after a year.
Freelancing means hustling, period. If you can't hustle, you'll starve, unless you're good enough to have an agent take you on. That's what they'll do for you - call the art directors on your behalf, and ask if there's any work you'd fit with.

>>3161048
> is full of offert commision at $5.
It's not. If you bothered to go explore it a little bit, you'd see that this is just not true. And you can filter the worst jobs out if you want. For example, I filter out anything that is not fixed-cost (as opposed to hourly), and under $250.

>are there many customers who want art commision?
Yes, but many people will want something that you may not be a good fit for.

>So do you suggest to try?
For some people, yes.

For you, no. I don't mean to be rude, but I'm actually saving you a lot of time by telling you not to do it. The main issue is your broken English. This is an English speaking platform, and if you cannot communicate well in English, then don't even think about trying.

>>3160850
>reach out for theit generic contact email and ask for the art director's info
>mfw i've been directly pitching without asking for their ADs
ffffffff

I guess I'm giving upwork a shot... that one anon convinced me. I make around 2-3k as well freelancing but it can be a bit inconsistent. Will report back.

I have a question. I just got an e-mail from someone saying they want to commission me for "a book and product packaging". would it be bad to just e-mail back "what are your rates"? what should I say? if this is legit, it sounds like my first big commission.

>>3161803
Can you guys post some work that's on your level, not yours but similar?

>>3161805
Need more info.

>>3161805
You should make it sound more serious I guess. Either set up a meeting if they are sort of local and get the detail in person or write your mail a bit more professionally.

>>3161824
What a stupid comment. Their issue isn't fixed by "writing a bit more professionally", or making it "sound more serious". Setting a meeting doesn't solve their problem.

Their problem is how to gauge how much they should charge their client, not how to talk to people in a professional manner.

>>3161824
>Either set up a meeting if they are sort of local and get the detail in person
who the fuck does that for a random commission inquiry you don't even know if you'll accept?

>>3161805

ask them what their budget is and to tell you a little bit more about the product so you can get an idea for what to bill or what rates to give them. congrats.

>>3160753
Could you expand on how many hours a week you work? Job searching included.

>>3161824
You guess? No, you guess wrong. This can be handled with one email - "Hey, thanks for the interest. Could you send me more details about the project, so I can put together a bid for it? Thanks, Artist."

>>3161890
It's really hard to say, since I don't really track them and it can vary from week to week.

For example, this past week I've been very sick, so I haven't been able to do a whole lot. That's okay though, since I still have my passive income so I'm still making a little bit while I'm down and out. To contrast, two weeks ago I had 3 concurrent jobs in one week, which I would guess I put in around 40 hours that week total to complete them all. I didn't have to put in any work into getting those particular jobs, as they were from a referral, a repeat client, and a guy who found me on Upwork (but decided to reach out to me directly, which is nice).

Average work week is probably about 20-40 hours. I've gotten much better at staying organized, making to-do lists and being productive, but it's a constant struggle as I'm just such a lazy person. My focus when going through the work week is to work smart, not hard, and try to get the most gain from as little time put in as possible.

>>3160913
Are you still screening or using sublimation?

>>3161805
I think for jobs like those you need to know Adobe InDesign

>>3162889
Why are you asking that? What makes you think I print my own shirts?

>>3161803
Me too. My living costs are very low, so if I get one 400 $ a month that's almost enough.

>>3162889

>>3162900
Wasn't there a statement saying that part of your income was from printing t-shirts? I may have been mistaken but that's why I asked.

>>3163800
Read this thread in its entirety https://yuki.la/ic/3077448 - it'll answer all your questions. I linked to it above when talking about selling shirts (not necessarily printing them).

>>3160595
Holy shit senpai i just made my first $200 today after a day of sending out pms
thanks a lot for the advice!
i think i can make it now, what a confidence boost

>>3164473
How good are you to land a 200$ gig?

>>3164475
not good enough yet because i didn't lol
it was actually a couple of gigs, one for a couple of portraits sketches and the other for a couple of tattoos
and i may land a couple of book covers too

>>3164473
Did you sent those PMs through Twitter?

>>3164473

awesome, godspeed brother

Bump

>>3160595
You're doing the most, anon. I'm not even looking for a job but I want to thank you for the reply.

>>3162858
No homo, but will you mentor me. You're an inspiring guy

>>3160595
Thank you Anon! I also got a gig from one of links. And a fun one! Good luck for everyone!

>>3165509
Can you show your work or equal level?

>>3165542
I don't want to show my work, and I find it difficult to compare to others, but I sometimes posted in a draw thread. I work mainly with lineart, so I would say my concepts look similar to FZD guys. I don't do illustrations, so that makes my options limited. It sucks that entry level concept jobs are usually indie level gigs, and it means concepts are used as assets in a game. That means they need to be polished to illustration level. Not to mention 99% of job offers are for a heavy stylized games that I don't want to do. The more I think about it the more I realize it's probably better to get into a AAA studio for an internship and they work hard to get hired (guy I know did just that, we were on a similar level at time).

>>3165667
Mind linking these job offers for heavy stylized games? Maybe some other people may want to do them.

>>3165678
Just browse those links, I didn't get any job proposals for stylized games from them, I found them while browsing for concept gigs.

>>3165678

Just search for "concept art", or "2d artist" etc.

>>3165678
nigga how much easier do you want it?
do you want me to talk to them for you too?

>>3160641
How much are you being paid to shill upwork?

>>3165999
Not OP, but for me Upwork did nothing.

unity forums is nice. also hilarious at times

https://forum.unity.com/threads/170-200-to-create-a-multiplayer-up-to-2-players-fps-game.499168/

>>3166283
just signed up and apparently you have to pay to be able to aplly for jobs??
and you have to put your tax info for payout???

>>3165436
Thanks! Can't afford to spend time mentoring someone. There's a lot of advice in this thread though that I think will help point you in the direction you need to go.

>>3164473
I'm not the guy who made that list, but congratulations on your success! Welcome to the world of being proactive in your job efforts. I hope you see more and more positive results.

>>3165999
To suggest that Upwork pays shills to get more freelancers to the site is just stupid. They need more clients, not more freelancers.

>>3166466
>apparently you have to pay to be able to aplly for jobs??
Not quite. You get a limited number of credits for free to respond to job postings, which should be more than enough for most people. If you run out, you can buy a "Pro" account for $10/month. If you're running out though, you might be unnecessarily applying to jobs that you shouldn't be. You should only apply to jobs that you feel are as close to an exact match for your style & skills as possible.

>and you have to put your tax info for payout???
I already stated that you had to do this above. This is the standard on any job site like this. Why is this surprising to you?

>>3166466
No. You just get a prompt that THEY will deduct VAT unless you give them some VAT number. I didn't bother because I didn't get any job from there. It's actually a lil bit annoying because they send me stupid emails "How to get more freelance jobs in 3 easy steps" BS

Speaking of income streams, I'm thinking of monetizing my art stream and I was wondering if there are examples of this done already that I can study?

>>3166596
The natural route is being interesting, more viewers, more probable subscribers, $2.5 a pop.

>>3160382
Every so often there's a post with actual useful information thank you anon.

Question about Upwork to any of the knowledgeable anons here:

Pretty much all my clients are networking-based, and I've been looking into Upwork but I've hit a snag.
My "main" work is painting, but I'm also very experienced in motion design and compositing and all that other junk. There are so many jobs constantly being posted for that stuff that are easy money and I can do on a high level, but I'm always getting undercut by VFX dudes from India who charge $5/hour.
Is there even any point in wasting my credits on trying to get those jobs? Normally I just outsource that stuff to studios and get paid standard EU prices, so I'm not just going to undercut to India-tier for the same kind of work.

Whats the differance between getting work as a traditional drawer (using pen and watercolor) and a digital artist? Is there any sites that focus on traditional freelance work`?

>>3167332
>mfw now people are interested in my work but idk how much to charge

>>3167047
Upwork in general is a bad idea if you don't live in a 2nd or 3rd world country.

>>3167345
Charge 5 to 10 per hour.

>>3167348
i don-t even even lift the pencil for that

>>3166596
I'm not too familiar with the current streams, but I simply can't imagine that there would be enough viewers to make it worthwhile.

>>3167047
I would avoid any job that
1) Doesn't pay well
2) You're not a perfect match for (or as close to as perfect as possible)

Getting undercut is part of being on a global platform. You get around it by being better than everyone else, and having the portfolio to show it. You also get major points for typing out thoughtful applications that are very responsive to the clients specific brief (as opposed to generic copy/pasted pitches, or pitches where you just talk about yourself).

I mentioned above how I felt like ~95% of jobs are not worth applying to. I personally wouldn't bother with jobs & clients that give you bad vibes. I'd scan Upwork maybe once or twice a day to quickly see if there's anything remotely applicable to you, and if not - no worries - just try again tomorrow. Remember you can use filters in the searches to weed out a lot of bullshit.

Good jobs from good clients definitely exist, and they're willing to pay well for skill, reliability + professionalism. They're few and far between, but they're there.

>>3167332
Not much of a difference. On Upwork in particular, I sometimes see jobs where the client wants a traditionally made piece. These are almost always way under-paid, and seemingly not worth the effort.

>>3167345
>idk how much to charge
Buy the "Graphic Artist's Guild Handbook of Pricing and Ethical Guidelines" - it'll give you a great introduction as to where you should be pricing yourself in the professional realm.

>>3167347
>Upwork in general is a bad idea if you don't live in a 2nd or 3rd world country.
Not entirely true. Upwork is a US based company, and there are often "US freelancer only" jobs posted that are much better than the global jobs.

>>3168528
>"Graphic Artist's Guild Handbook of Pricing and Ethical Guidelines
When will this meme end?

>>3166612
>>3168528

Hey, thanks for responding!

>I'm not too familiar with the current streams, but I simply can't imagine that there would be enough viewers to make it worthwhile.

Worthwhile as in ROI? I feel like if game streamers can do it then why not art streamers? Content is content, or am I off base?

>>3160595
stay off poly count.

>>3160595

not to mention the competition even if you are good having a unique set of skills. still you're not going to find much work opportunities on art forums. they're flooded with artists in the same boat as 'you"

>>3168815
>I feel like if game streamers can do it then why not art streamers?
I think the big difference is the audience pool in which you can draw your income from. Content is content - sure - but I think the viewer base for art streams is much, much smaller than that of gaming streams.

You check here for a list of current streamers: twitch (d0t) tv/directory/game/Creative . Top art stream is the shadman, sitting at around 550 viewers. I personally don't see it being worth it to build up an audience solely for art streaming, but it might be a worthwhile perk for your current audience would be interested if you already have a large fanbase.

>>3168893
Hmm, didn't think the numbers were that low, picarto seems to be worse too.

I still like the idea, but I might back off on monetizing for now and just focus on building a following. I'll revisit when I'm up to 10,000 or so across my profiles.

>>3160850
that shirt thread was pretty helpful. the only thing that i kinda dislike about the submitting process with the daily shirt sites is the lack of feedback, though is understandable since they probably get like 100 submissions per day.

last week i submitted two Halloween designs to theyetee that i thought were okay and "on brand" with the site but were both rejected, and i don't know if i should move on to the next idea immediately or if i can change some stuff in the designs and upload them again (since i think they can do well), or if that is even something you can do

>>3168950
i found that they accepted me on the basis of this submission. i was stunned, and i know you are to the point of unbelief.

>>3160595
do you have any advice on what to put on a portfolio to be considered as a good "concept artist"

>>3169126
Listen to no one as everyone (and studio) is different. Somewhat more seriously though, draw what you want in order to keep your motivation at a level where you will be able to maintain the consistency needed to output the amount of work you need to. Look up existing portfolios from artists that work where you'd like to be, emulate their "production" process and produce similar art.

>>3168528
Thank you for the reply, it's heartening to know there's still hope on places like that. I gave up on it after a couple of weeks, but I'll try give it some time.
I noticed experienced clients will probably have a higher chance of actually paying well. The competition that undercuts are very scammy in posting stuff that looks good on their profile but then failing to deliver, and clients who outsource a lot are starting to wise up.

>>3169126
This gets asked so many times there are entire threads, blogposts, and magazine articles related to it on every art platform there is at this point.

Here's just the stuff I got off Artstation in 5 minutes of browsing:

https://magazine.artstation.com/2017/09/imagine-fx-supplement/
https://magazine.artstation.com/2017/09/breaking-creative-me-industry/
https://magazine.artstation.com/2017/07/game-recruiters-application/
https://magazine.artstation.com/2017/07/concept-artist-hollywood-film/
https://magazine.artstation.com/2017/06/find-910-students-jobs/
https://magazine.artstation.com/2017/05/dos-donts-game-studio/
https://magazine.artstation.com/2017/02/find-industry-grow-career/

Unlike as recently as a decade ago, finding the info is the easy part now. The hard part is figuring out what you actually want, as well as what you are capable of doing. You gotta really play to your strengths which means you have to be honest enough to identify your weaknesses.

>>3169142
>>3169157
thanks a lot

>>3168950
Glad the shirt thread was helpful - it's a pretty good overview of what to expect in that field.

That's cool that you submitted some Halloween designs. It's possible that they rejected them simply because they are doing their "Spoopyfest" promotion, where they're printing a bunch of Halloween designs, but the deadline to submit designs for that was Sept. 27, so maybe that's why. I actually submitted one to that, so if you wanted to see one of my shirts, check out the Metroid design from today!

>the only thing that i kinda dislike about the submitting process with the daily shirt sites is the lack of feedback,
Again, this is one of the reasons I really like TheYetee - they're super friendly and really open to talking. It's true that on most dailies there's not really any way to get feedback, but if you join the Yetee's Artist group on Facebook, you can ask for feedback directly to the staff on why it was rejected. Also, it's really handy to post work-in-progress designs there, as the staff and other artists will give you some solid feedback and thoughts on whats is and isn't working for them. It's a great place to get critique on shirt designs, as that type of work isn't really suited that well to /ic/.

>What type of art are you freelance anons making? Like what style, and medium?
>what types of clients are you working for?

Im getting back into drawing; not really trying to make money from it yet....But in the long run i'd love to do political cartoons, illustration for mechendise, posters, etc. Im more interested in traditional mediums but i've been getting a little more into the idea of also getting a tablet(eventually) and doing cool digital stuff.

....Seems like a lot of the money is in graphic design or web design though.

>>3169262
>>3168950
I dunno if any of you anons would be interested in hearing this, but if any of you are business minded(or willing to learn a little bit), running your own T-shirt business is actually really easy.
Shopify makes it super easy to build an online store for ~$30/month; you dont have to know how to code or anything. You can get all types of merch(shirts, hats, mugs, prints, stickers, phone cases) printed on demand; the stuff gets made when a costumer places an order, so you dont get stuck with a shitload of merch to sell.
Your profit margins would be $5-15 depending on how you price things.

You would just basically have to promote yourself is the main thing; but you could do it in addition to having a redbubble/threadless/whatever page.

Alternatively you could find a niche(dog lovers, burners, bicyclists, w/e), make designs that would appeal to that crowd, and market/advertise to them online(social media marketing, facebook ads, etc.)

>>3160382
How do you guys gain pasive income, im looking for options, so far my ideas are:
1.youtube/twich video content
2.gumroad brushes or videos
3. patreon
4.tumblr tips or something similar

the general idea of my question is passive income and how artist deal with it?

>>3170349
Royalties.

>>3164475

lmfao $200 gig is bottom of the barrel m8. grats to that guy tho

>>3170399

gotta start somewhere

>>3170399
>$200 gig is bottom of the barrel
wait really? can you elaborate more?

>>3169262
> running your own T-shirt business is actually really easy.
This is already discussed heavily in the archived thread linked twice above.

I'd heavily advise against opening up a Shopify account to create your online store, at least for someone new to the t-shirt game. If you're going to dropship shirts, do it via Etsy or a marketplace where there is an established audience already. With Shopify, you will have an extremely hard time getting enough traffic to your store, as it's its own standalone website. It's not worth it unless you already have a very large audience of your own to funnel traffic over to your site.

>>3170349
The only real passive income you've listed is #2, the gumroad brushes + videos. Creating and maintaining a Patreon/Twitch/Youtube is hardly a passive, hands off experience. You'll still have to put in a ton of hard work to create enough new content on a regular basis. I don't even know what you mean by "tumblr tips" - how would you monetize something that is supposed to be shared by others for free?

>>3170592
>wait really? can you elaborate more?
As mentioned several times in this thread, doing commissioned work for businesses generally pays much better than the private, personal commissions /ic/ tends to gravitate towards.

That anon is incorrect in assuming it was a bottom-of-the-barrel gig, since we don't know how much the workload was. I'm assuming it was a quick job, maybe a one or two days worth of work max, in which case $200.00 could be totally acceptable for a beginner. If it was a more significant workload though, then they are getting underpaid for sure.

>>3170592
normal freelance for a business pays in the thousands. Like, $1500+ for one illustration for a lot of things.

Think about how much time a good painting takes. It's easily 40+ hours of work and most freelancers charger $50+/h.

>>3170815
>I'd heavily advise against opening up a Shopify account to create your online store, at least for someone new to the t-shirt game. If you're going to dropship shirts, do it via Etsy or a marketplace where there is an established audience already. With Shopify, you will have an extremely hard time getting enough traffic to your store, as it's its own standalone website. It's not worth it unless you already have a very large audience of your own to funnel traffic over to your site.

what's the way to go then? build a brand first?

-t. someone who just started a shopify store 2 days ago (lol)

In what kind of fairy tale world are you guys living? I've been freelancing professionally for a couple of years now, my skill level is pretty ok. I'm pretty critical of myself, but I definitely better than the average. Where the fuck did you saw $1500+ per illustration as a normal prices? On average the prices are 200-400 USD per illustration and it's from a pretty big and established companies that contacted me (I never really did a private commissions or sent out portfolio to companies and asked for a job). And they want to get a good image from you, not just a quick sketch. I can't be just unlucky, because I worked with a few different companies. This talk about how you get 1000+ bucks for a single painting as a norm is a bit frustrating. I feel inadequate.

>>3171371
Post work or similar skill.

>>3171375
Imagine average Legend of the Cryptids art.

>>3171437
>my skill level is pretty o
>Imagine average Legend of the Cryptids art.
yet it doesn't sound like you've actually been employed by them. So stfu, bottom feeder dunning kruger

>>3171371

you can definitely get better paying work. hell i've been paid 600€ by indie gamedevs per illustration while they had me do several. but my best work has all been around that pricerange (per illustration). i'm not sure what to make of the guy(s?) claiming anything below 2k is chump tier either. kinda hard to buy, but i only have a couple years of freelance experience under my belt.

>>3170971
Why did you previously tell others that "running your own T-shirt business is actually really easy", when you just admitted you started 2 days ago?

>what's the way to go then? build a brand first?

I quite literally explained the way to go in the paragraph that you quoted from me.

>>3171371
The big money in illustration usually comes not from the skill + time spent working, but from selling over the rights to use it. The more usage, the more money. It's why the New Yorker pays thousands of dollars for a cover illustration, but your local alt-weekly might only pay a few hundred - they have widely different circulations. There are many factors that go into high paying commissions. For certain projects for certain businesses, they can definitely shell out big bucks for a single illustration to the right artist.

However, I disagree with >>3170944 that "normal freelance" for a business pays $1500 for "a lot of things". It sounds like they've got a specific type of job for a specific client in might, but they're inappropriately generalizing that to all freelance illustration jobs - which is not necessarily the case. You should be proud of the jobs you're getting - the fact you're even getting work puts you leagues above most struggling artists. Just keep it up, improve your portfolio and continue reaching out to better and larger clients.

>>3173111

Oh I see. Anon how does this work then, do you use a POD service like Printful or do you print the shirts locally and ship them out from your home when you get sale?

>>3170378
Royalties for illustration are so rare, it may as well be a myth. Most if not all clients will want a buyout - you get paid ONCE.
Back in the 50s, 60's, and somewhat into the 70's, artists for some kinds of work, like book covers, could sign contracts for different things - like if the book is only published in the US, they'd get $x, and then if the book was published in other countries, you'd get $x =$y. Or, with book publishing, you'd get paid again when the book had a reprinting, or was sold as paperback, which is why paperbacks often have different covers from the hardcopy, and the covers are different in different countries - the UK Stephen Kings would have a different cover than the US cover.

Also, some of the bigger artists would license the image to the publisher, and retained ownership and copyright of the image. One example of that is the artist Robert Williams, who sold licenses of his art to bands like Guns And Roses, Scatterbrain, and Ludichrist. This usually only happens with established artists who created the work for other reasons, and a band/publisher wants the image bad enough.

Forget royalties. Even the big established artists don't get that anymore, if ever at all. You need to make sure the buyout price is acceptable, and you're being paid fairly for the amount of work it takes to create the images.

>>3173111
Agreed - there's no "normal" for illustration, because it's such a wide field - and prices in some markets are in the toilet, like the music industry. Same is true for photography - used to be photographers could sell a photo of say Sting, for $1500 a pop to a magazine, and sell copies for years, that market is gutted by amatuers and iPhones. When I started out, an original painting for an album cover could net you $10-15k. Now? "We'll give you exposure!" is the amount being offered. Book covers are a lot less now, too. But, in the upper ranges, with the big publishers, for established artists, you can still make a living, but you'll hustle a lot more, and most of them sell prints now, which is probably more income than the original gig.

how much more do you usually ask for rights? say a boxart for a boardgame or tcg that will be on kickstarter?
i was thinking $200 for the illu but didn't think about usage rights
asking for a friendmyself

>>3174979
Percentage of sales.

>>3174979
How are you justifying this to yourself? The box art of a boardgame for $200? Are you just picking a random number?

Look at the budget for the Kickstarter, and go off of that. For a flat fee, I'd personally charge between 5-10% of that. They're raising money so that they can pay people like you. If their budget was $15,000, 5% is $750, and 10% would be $1500. A fee between these two would be perfectly acceptable.

You can negotiate a percentage of sales, but remember your working for a project that might not get funded, and you won't make a dime from royalties. I'd go with a flat-fee, unless you're 100% sure that it will be a massive success.

>>3175900
>Are you just picking a random number? (not amerifag, just started freelancing, don't pay taxes)
i was thinking $20/h, 10h of work max
>Look at the budget
by budget you mean the money they will get after the kickstarter finishes or before?

i'm pretty retarded at writing emails, making it look professional and shit.
any help with that? it just came to me when i typed "send me the money at..." not very professional sounding i think.
Also, when you are done with the commission, you say thanks for commissioning me or some gay shit like that?

>>3160641
>live in the US
Fuck.

>>3175924
>by budget you mean the money they will get after the kickstarter finishes or before?
After. I think kickstarters have a perk in regards to pricing because you can see upfront how much of a budget they have. Whatever their kickstarter goals are, you are entitled to a cut of it if you contribute to the product.

>i was thinking $20/h, 10h of work max
There's really no reason you should pick $20/h. Using an hourly rate + estimate time is a decent way to get a general ballpark range of how much you should charge, but keep in mind there are other factors involved - especially when you don't have to guess what they're budget is and can appropriately ask for more money knowing it won't totally drain the whole project of its funds.


>>3177108
>Also, when you are done with the commission, you say thanks for commissioning me or some gay shit like that?
Are you really that socially retarded? Why would politely wrapping up a project constitute 'gay shit'?

>>3177108
>"send me the money at..."
My payment details are as follows:

>thanks for commissioning me or some gay shit like that?
Thank you, I enjoyed working on your [hentai furry vore] project, and I look forward to hearing from you if you would like to commission me again.
All the best,
Autistic Anon

If you're a native English speaker this should have been taught to you in school.

>>3178236
but the thing is, if they ask me to make illustrations before they launch kickstarter, so i have no way of knowing the money they will get until the kickstarter finishes or if it will be succesfully funded.
> no reason you should pick $20/h
isnt it? i mean i know i should add usage rights to the "equation" but i thought it was good for private commissions(non commercial use)

>>3178236
>Are you really that socially retarded?
yes, why do you think i'm asking
>>3178258
thanks a lot anon! i'm not a native english speaker
i've also found out that apparently you ought to say thanks and put your name at the end of every email...

>>3178612
Ah okay. If you want to learn more about writing in formal English you should look at design studio job application templates and CV/Resume templates. You can straight up just take phrases from those to sound more professional, but at the same time don't overuse them like calling people "sir/madam" because then it starts sounding 3rd-world. It's a weird kind of line.
I like to end all my emails with "Regards - Name", usually.

>>3168856
What's wrong with poly count?

>>3177165
>excuses

>>3169262
that group sounds helpful, do they accept you in even if you don't have design on your facebook page? i rarely use mine and it has been two weeks since i applied to the teefury artists group to get some feedback too and i don't think i'll get an anser pretty soon

Anybody got a list of companies with "contact us" e-mails for digital illustrators? I'm having a really hard time putting a reasonably long list together because I don't know how to look for these places. So far I have this from previous threads:

Legend of the Cryptids
Mobius Final Fantasy Square Enix Co.
Fantasy Flight Games
Alder Entertainment Group
Might & Magic
Paizo / artsubmissions@paizo.com

>>3182360
i should mention i'm looking for companies geared towards this kind of work, especially mobile games.

sort of related but are there any Australian artists living in the GC that would be willing to paint a large Fashwave Mural somewhere in my machineshop. Can pay cash in hand, pay for paint before hand and give said individual a place to crash if they're not living locally.

>>3180227
>>3177165
In regards to working on Upwork, not being in the US is a pretty damn good excuse to avoid the platform. Those US-only jobs can be just as shit as global listings, but I've still found my best clients from US-only postings. .

>>3181082
They're stingy about letting random people in, but if have a link to your portfolio and such on your Facebook then you should come across as a 'legitimate' artist and get in just fine.

>>3182360
>>3182362
> I'm having a really hard time putting a reasonably long list together because I don't know how to look for these places
Client lists are very, very valuable. Knowing how to hunt down opportunities is a skill you'll need to develop on your own. People aren't going to spoon feed you valuable contact lists since it increases their competition and reduces their own likelihood of getting work for themselves.

>i should mention i'm looking for companies geared towards this kind of work, especially mobile games.
What's stopping you from looking this up yourself? Spend a few evenings going through the top 500 (maybe even 1000) mobile games and take note of the publishers who use art similar to what you attached. Dig for the contact info of those publishers and reach out to their art directors. You have to do your own research.

>>3182505
Do you really expect to find an artist on /ic/ to do this for you?

Artist here who's currently doing a shirt design for a client on Upwork. We agreed on $400.

So the client created a milestone for $200 put aside in escrow as a deposit. I create a couple of sketches and then request payment of the milestone with the sketches.

The client approved the sketch, so I will continue on with starting the final piece. Thing is, do I wait until he approves the milestone before I continue doing more work, or is this already funded...?

I'm new to Upwork so Im confused as to how this whole system works.

>>3184157
My idea was him paying the $200, and I wouldn't request the 2nd $200 until Im ready to send him the fully finished image file.

how many things should you have on your portfolio before you start contacting people? is 10 pieces too little?

>>3184170
10 is fine, but it's better to have 6 if 4 of them are crap.

>>3184157
...anyone?

>>3184157
>>3184161
>I'm new to Upwork so Im confused as to how this whole system works.
It's sort of up to you and the client how you want to break up the payments.

>The client approved the sketch,
Did they actually go through and approve the milestone and release those funds over to your account?

Here's what I do:
$400 total budget - this should hopefully be already funded (paid for) by the client and held by Upwork. Upwork in this instance acts as sort of the middleman - the client has already paid into Upwork for the project when funding the milestones, but the client has too approve your requests to draw from those funds. You can see on your job page whether or not the milestones are funded (it'll say $0 of $200 funded, or something like that).

So you have the $200 deposit (or sometimes on the delivery of initial sketch) --- Once it's appropriate to do so, you need to request payment for that milestone. This sends a notification to the client that they can approve so that the funds can be released over from Upwork into your account.

From here, I would continue developing on the final work. If they haven't funded the final milestone, I would politely remind them to do so, and to mention that you can't send over the final work until it is funded. Remember to stay polite and professional.

Congrats on landing your first job on Upwork by the way - once you land that first job (and get a good review), things get a whole lot easier.

>>3184583
Basically we agreed on $400. The client set up a milestone called "deposit", where he set $200 in escrow.

I did a couple of rough sketches and attached them to the requested payment of the milestone of $200. I'm not sure if I'm automatically paid or if I have to get him to approve the milestone to get paid. I don't want to continue working on this until I know I'm getting the $200.

>>3184957
He said he liked the sketches, so obviously he should've seen the payment request. How do I nicely ask him to approve the milestone so I can start working on this?

>sent my first upwork proposal
fuck me. at least this was a vaguely productive morning

>>3184992
I've been at it for a few months using up almost all my free connects each month and haven't got one reply yet. Not trying to discourage. I just don't know what it is that catches the client's eye. Pic is some character design I did. I do plenty of personal work to pad the portfolio, but have a hell of a time getting my foot in the door.
Maybe my cover letter/proposal is poorly written? I'm cordial, professional (I think), keep it brief and relevant to each job. I'd say that a witch I used to date put a curse on me, but that would only make the curse work (if true). I'm gona keep at it. Congrats to everyone who can make money at this, it shows that my effort isn't in vain.

>>3184957
>>3184959
You are not automatically paid until they approve the request to release the funds from the milestone over to you. Politely inform & remind them that you sent over a request to draw from the funds they put in, and that they need to approve it.

Once it's approved, you'll get an email/notifcation that it was a approved, and it will automatically go into your Upwork account. Depending on when you have your deposits scheduled, Upwork will then automatically transfer the money into your bank account (this is when Upwork takes their cut). Sometimes it can take a few days for the client to get their shit together and approve the milestone.

>>3184996
There are likely a few different problems:

1. You might not be as good as you think. The work you attached is alright, but nothing special. A lot of jobs on Upwork are for businesses who want professional looking artwork, and the work you attach doesn't quite come across as such, but more of an amateur.

2. You're applying to jobs that are not relevant to what's in your portfolio. I think this is the biggest issue that hold most people back. The closer your work is to what the client is looking for, the better. If it's not close, don't even bother applying. Is your entire portfolio composed of character designs like you attached? Illustrators who have appealing styles with portfolios showing multiple different subject matters are at a massive advantage on Upwork over those who don't.

You get the job if you have 1.) A style that the client enjoys, 2.) Have examples of similar work in your portfolio, and 3.) You write a good proposal.

3. Your proposals are poop. From the sounds of it though, you seem to have a handle on English just fine, and that you know to focus on keeping the proposal relevant to the job. I personally always be sure to repeat back to them in my own words what it is they're looking for, and to describe how I would approach it.

Hope that helps!

>>3185060
Do you have a script as to how to ask the client to approve the milestone so I can continue working? I've done freelance in the past, but I would sent clients my own contracts and agree to be paid at least a 3rd of the amount up front before I would send anything. This dynamic and system is a bit weird and it's awkward to ask "hey, glad you like the sketches, now please approve and release the funds for this milestone so I can continue working"

>>3185064
I don't mean to be rude - but I'm failing to see what your hang up is here. Why is this confusing to you? This part really shouldn't be that difficult.

>"hey, glad you like the sketches, now please approve and release the funds for this milestone so I can continue working"
This is absolutely fine. Problem solved. Why is this "awkward" to you?

>>3185066
We are just socially retarded senpai

>>3185066
You'd be surprised how many clients I've encountered that thought I was swindling them for asking for money before doing work for them. So I worry about how I phrase things.

>>3185060
This is another example. My online portfolio is divided into sections for 'graphic design' (logos & such) 'comic', 'illustration' (things like pic related), and 'character/concept design'. I link to the relevant section in my proposal and attach any extra work that relates directly to the job. The types of things I bid on are illustration & comic art mostly since those are the strongest pieces I have.

What could I do to up the 'professional' look of some thing like I posted earlier or pic related? Cynically, I would say more random PS brush strokes, some color dodge, and a bright white rim light. I appreciate the input btw.

>Upwork
>the highest paying jobs have the most proposals

Why even bother if there's so much competition? How could you even stand out?

>>3185078
Go ahead and remind them to approve the milestone - it's totally acceptable and expected to have to pay a deposit. If they give you a hard time, then that's a massive red flag of a troublesome client and you should just straight up abandon the project.

>>3185080
In terms of your fundies, the big things that stand out to me are your poor values, color & perspective, and your lack of composition skills - especially in regard to balancing your contrast & levels of detail. For example, in the bear illustration you attached: It's hard to tell what the focus is. Everything is so intense and jarring, that there's no real balance to it. This is mainly due to you pushing your dark values way, way too far. Contrast creates focal points, and if everything has too much contrast, then it's hard to know what's important.

>The types of things I bid on are illustration & comic art
I could never recommend Upwork to folks wanting to do comics. I don't do them, but from what I've seen on Upwork in regards to comic listings, they're garbage jobs that ask far too much while paying way too little - usually from amateur writers trying to make their passion project come to fruition. Same issue with children books - loads of work for peanuts in return.

>>3185090
>>3185090
>Why even bother if there's so much competition? How could you even stand out?
Welcome to the world of illustration - there's a lot of competition.
You stand out on Upwork by:
+ Having high-quality work & an appealing style
+ Having work in your portfolio relevant to the job you're applying to
+ Being thoughtful and considerate in your proposals. Most of those proposals on the highest paying jobs are awful, copy+pasted, irrelevant garbage. It pays to write out a good, responsive proposal - you will definitely stand out.
+ Getting in early. When job hunting on Upwork, check in 2-3 a day and briefly look over new jobs (you can set filters to filter out the low-paying trash). If you see one that looks relevant to your skills and pays well, jump on it. The earlier you get in, the more you stand out. Don't bother jumping into popular jobs if they're older than 24 hours old (I'd even avoid 12 hours old jobs).

If you do or have all of these things, I promise you'll be a top contender for the job. At that point, it's just about luck. You've done everything you can, and now it's out of your control. I always enjoyed this advice from Bryan Cranston https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1WiCGq-PcY - switch 'acting' with your artwork and you've essentially got the same thing. Once you put your best effort out there, then you've done all you can do. The person who then gets the job is not necessarily the BEST artist, but rather the RIGHT artist. All you can do is try your best and hope that your artwork lines up with what the client feels is right for the job.

>>3185127
I've been starving for a decent critique. I usually get no reply or "thanks we found another candidate" Values, composition, & perspective are exactly the areas I'm currently working to improve. The contrast point makes sense and it was something I was noticing in other pro's work, but it wasn't 'clicking' until it was spelled out. The bear piece will be redone from scratch, it's for a book a friend is writing (free work) so I'm using it for practice. Now I wish I could hit you up for some more input w/o derailing.

>>3185080
>Cynically, I would say more random PS brush strokes, some color dodge, and a bright white rim light. I appreciate the input btw.
If anything I would use less fancy brushes, it is quite noisy

>>3185181
For sure - happy to help!

To elaborate off what I previously said - thinking about contrast going forward will help you, not just in contrast of values, but contrast of shapes (small shapes vs big shapes), forms, and levels of detail (lots of detail vs very little). Intentionally orchestrating different contrasts across your work is what separates stronger compositions from weaker ones.

Also, consistency is something you need to work on.

For example - concerning levels of detail: you're inexplicably rendering out and adding high detail to things seemingly at random. It comes across as inconsistent. In this instance, the highest amount of detail should probably be where the focal point is - around the center of the image. However, you're zooming in too far and adding such tiny details to things that aren't important. For example, check out the bottom right snow splash. There are more tiny strokes here which draws the eye to them, even though they're not an important compositional element. Generally speaking, unimportant things like this require the least detail, so if this is the bar you set as the minimum level of detail, then you need to carry that level of detail out to the rest of your image. Does that make sense? You have to make sure the details make sense and fit into the bigger picture.

Another thing that makes your bear illustration seem so jarring is the different approaches to rendering out the details that are clashing. It's like you have a few different styles that you're trying to use, but it'd work much better if there was one, consistent approach for everything. For example, the guy with the axe seems to be in a different style (especially his arms) than the rest of the image, the environment (rocky/snowy bits to the left) seems to be in a different style, the previously discussed bits with high levels of detail are in a different style, etc. A part of this - as the other anon has pointed out - is the fuzzy, noisy brush.

>>3160753
>$2.5-3K/month
how many jobs in that 3k?

>>3160850
>Sorry to disappoint, but I want to remain anonymous. Feel free to disregard any of my advice if you feel skeptical.
they probably want to know what your skill level is so they can correlate it with how much you make.

I said before how Upwork was not woth it for me, not much changed- I spend maybe 5 minutes browsing and applying to relevant job offers (I already got a full time freelance job anyways), I just got a reply saying that they hired another concept artist, but they really like my work and will keep me in their contact list so they can get in touch with me if they need me in the future. Is it a standard Upwork reply company use over there (it sounded really professional) when they review offers, or do they really mean they will actually add me to their concept artists list? I am not sure if I should reply to that PM, or if that's just a way "thanks, but no thanks" looks like on Upwork?

>>3185060
>A lot of jobs on Upwork are for businesses who want professional looking artwork, and the work you attach doesn't quite come across as such, but more of an amateur.
not that guy, but didn't you say that 95% of the freelancers there are "low skill, unprofessional"? though to be honest, anon's work just looks all-around unappealing in style and subject more so than being a skill problem.

>>3160641
>>3160850
seems legit

>>3185752
Need to know this as well. 1+

>>3185384
This may have been a little misleading - reread that post. In that post I said that Upwork jobs made up around 30-40% of that average monthly income, so it's apart of a variety of income streams. I'm also including repeat clients in that, which are jobs I'm continually receiving from clients I originally met on Upwork, even if I'm not working with them through Upwork anymore (if you trust a client, many of them are happy to just do continued business via email). I currently have one project from an old Upwork client $1200. Generally I try and get Upwork jobs that pay in the high-hundreds at least, or maybe settled for low-hundreds if the job is easy and a good fit. I personally find it much more preferable to have less higher-paying gigs than trying to juggle many lower-paying ones.

>>3185388
If you read the thread, I linked to some work that is similar skill/style to my own.

>>3185857
I did say that, and I do believe businesses on Upwork generally want professional work. I didn't mean to imply that all the listings on Upwork are from businesses (a lot of shitty personal / passion projects clog up the searches), or even that business clients 'settle' for the lesser artists on the site (you can actually see that lots of job never end up hiring someone). If you're a good artist and you're socially + professionally competent, you can snag the best jobs. If you're still developing as an artist, I think you can definitely still find work, but you might only have a shot at the lower-paying jobs.

>>3185868
>>3185752
From my experience (and based on what others have said), if you didn't get the job, you just don't hear back from them at all. I think the fact that they bothered to reach out to you and tell you that they liked you is absolutely fantastic. It's very likely they enjoyed your work, but that particular project was slightly better suited for someone else. Definitely reply and thank them for the consideration.

>>3186107
>Definitely reply and thank them for the consideration.

Will do, thank you a lot, Helpful_Anon- Senpai!

>>3182505
Op here. I can do it. I have a lot of experience with mural painting. How much you can pay me and how big is the wall? Take a photo

>>3187056
Also great treath. Thanks for useful informations everyone

>>3186107
then from non-repeat clients from upwork alone, how much is your average monthly income?

Do there happen to be any colorists here that would like to be in an art show? I'm doing some cartoon holiday scenes and was hoping to having different colorist for them. Not a paying gig, but I'd definitely credit artists.

>>3187135
>Not a paying gig, but I'd definitely credit artists.

>>3187135
>Not a paying gig, but I'd definitely credit artists.

>>3187175
>>3187178
I'm not getting paid. It's an opportunity to be seen.

>>3187192

someone ban this cunt

>>3187135
why don't you do it yourself

>>3187194
I could. I'm just mostly a line artist and thought this might be interesting. I actually thought people might think it would be neat to participate, idk. Having art in public is something, right?

>>3187192
>It's an opportunity to be seen.

>>3187202
>>3187192
>>3187135
>I'd definitely credit artists.
> It's an opportunity to be seen.
> Having art in public is something, right

One of the reasons the whole 'exposure' trade off is so criticized, is because generally people who use that as leverage are doing projects that don't actually offer any exposure. I am certain that you actually can't offer any significant exposure, because you're probably not doing anything of any significant value. For example:

What's the project?
Who is the publisher? Are you the publisher?
Who is the intended audience?
How large will the distribution be?
What are the channels that will be used to deliver the work to that audience?
Are there large, influential social media presences lined up to promote the work?
What's the marketing budget?
Is there a marketing plan to promote the project?
Can you develop a promotional plan to give the artist increased exposure beyond tacking on their name in the credits?

If someone wanted to get free exposure for their work, they could just do it themselves instead of pouring time into someone elses project.

> thought this might be interesting. I actually thought people might think it would be neat to participate,
You can't frame this as an equal-footing artist collaboration. It's not. You're trying to get someone to work on your project in for something in return (in this instance - something that is of no value).

>>3187214
I guess I could have gone around just requesting colors and gotten less shit for it. You know, be a real shit head about it. What was the proper way to approach this? Just don't isn't the answer.

>>3187231
>Just don't isn't the answer.
it is

>>3187234
That's some bullshit. Artists never work together just for fun? And it's not like you can just walk in and ask to have an art show, even if it's just a small and local thing. I don't get what's so offensive about the idea.

>>3187231
The answer really is "don't". You need to entice someone to get involved with your project, and this is usually done with money. Instead, you tried to offer 'credit' and exposure - which is not good.

Can you think of any other reasons besides money why someone would want to contribute to your project? I think you'll be hard-pressed to think of reasons.

>>3187238
>Artists never work together just for fun?
They do. Usually they know each other and get together to create a project from the ground up in the direction of a common goal. Again - you didn't pitch this as a collaboration. You pitched it as a business transaction where you wanted to find someone to work on YOUR project, and in return you would pay them with exposure. This is why people are shitting on you.

>>3187241
I figured it would be worse to not say up front that I'd be sure to credit the artists. was also trying to be brief. I was just being honest about what would happen. And online exposure doesn't count if other artists like you are the only ones to see it. I've been paid way more often by the general public.

>>3187244
there's a whole twitter for this "exposure" meme https://twitter.com/forexposure_txt

>>3187238
ArtStation gives me more exposure than your passion project. No one ever checks credits to check who did art for a game. If your game was worth anything you'd save up money, pay people to work on it and benefit from post release income.

>>3187259
Exposure is a meme I suppose. The likeliness of actual fame or tons of money is based more on connections. Otherwise we are part of the work force. The general public only values that you get it done. It's the pessimistic angle. Whatever I guess.

>>3187261
Game? What are you talking about? And again, I wasn't trying to leverage expose, just assure that credit would be given.

>>3187266
>Game

My bad.

So it's not even exposure.

>>3187268
What?

>>3187269

>What?

>>3187268

Repeat

>>3187270
That doesn't help. If you are doing something specific that doesn't relate, why would I be asking you to do anything?

>>3187272
Hope IDs get introduced soon.

Can you niggers, just ignore this 'for exposure' faggot. He will not understand and this is derailing and shitting up a really good thread

>>3187277
No, I get it and half expected it. I like it on 4chan, so I thought it might work. I guess I'm sorry?

>>3187281
just take this as a lesson on /ic/ that every mention of anything similar to a /request/ will get the cynical mob running over you. artists do tend to get fucked over this issue so the best is not bringing it up.

>>3160913
so you're more of a graphic designer than an illustrator.

Was browsing around and saw this thread, I'm starting to have that surge of insecure thoughts of my future again. I'm on my final year of an art college, I've drawn for years now and
I believe I have passion but these few months or years of my time in university haven't produced anything that I would be deem worthy or good at all.
Lately thoughts of how maybe I just enjoyed drawing whatever as a hobby like how I do all these years is how I should treat my art and instead of freelancing or whatever I should just continue drawing and practicing during my off time.
However I'm remained as to what job I should do or pay my bills, I was thinking maybe small time assisting or educational institutes once I'm done with my college. I do like drawing and all but i don't think i'm good at it compared to other people and my portfolio is really lacking.

>>3186107
would still like to know this >>3187092

Upwork hasn't approved my profile in over a month. Fuck that place and everyone who shills for them.

>>3188964
what? my profile was approved within minutes of starting

>>3188969

As a freelance illustrator, who do you contact/e-mail? I'm ready to start, I have a portfolio, now I want to start sending e-mails to people, but I can't find how. Suppose I want to break into book illustration, where do I find people needing illustrators for their books, or art directors for this sort of thing? (pic unrelated, only gave "tips" for when you're already in, did not answer this vital question)

>>3188976
look up Dearad

I just received this invitation for this project on Upwork

....what would you do? The client isn't just asking for artwork, but for the artist to flesh out the script as well.

Would you accept this invitation or decline? And would you do this hourly or by fixed price? I wouldn't know how many hours this would take me because you never know if the client wants changes to be made and how many revisions they ask for.

>>3188999
dubs into trip into best advice in the thread.
Best thread /ic/ has had in a looong while

>>3189035
>Would you accept this invitation or decline?
that all depends on how much money you would get. also depends on how much you set your hourly rate as to be well worth your time and more.

>>3189057
I mean, I wouldn't mind hourly rate if Upwork's time tracker didn't take a screenshot every 10 minutes.

Also, I don't want to have the client wonder why I'm working 10 hours on a Monday, but only 2 hours on a Tuesday.

>>3189061
Do you really have to send them a time tracker log?
I mean, I have one just so I know how much time I spend drawing, I could send to them if they asked for proof, but is it really smoething required?

>>3188976
...what are the top five things art directors hate?

>>3189080
You don't have to use the time tracker, but I think you still have to log your time manually and it goes by day. And the client sees your logged hours.

So again, weird for the project to show I worked 5 hours one day, then 7 hours the next, and then 2 hours the day after that. Can't have the client questioning what I was doing for the hours I'm not working on his project.

>>3189118
That sounds fucking awful desu. It's not a clients business what you do in your day. You could be doing work in 2 hours that a less experienced artist would do in 8, that doesn't mean you're not getting the work done.
I'd much rather hold out and be poor for a bit longer than take on a client that expects me to track my entire fucking day for them.

>>3189094
spiders, pinaple on a pizza, U2, hangnails and that thing where you poop and it splashes water back up at you.

there are none
enjoy your ''freelance'' welfare and 100k debt, asshole

>>3178718
Non-native english speaker here, I still use that "regards" stuff, what do you use to replace it?

>>3189163
>implying I don't just work at Americorps for a little while and pay off my debt, then get connections and travel all in one go

IM LOOKING FOR ARTISTS AND DESIGNERS

gonna be selling clothes and (maybe) prints and other stuff online as a side gig; im an expert in marketing, web dev, SEO, etc

I prefer minimal designs, A E S T H E T I C stuff, etc

Please hit me up at icdesigns@protonmail.com

>>3189334
If you're such an expert, why are you trolling 4chan? Someone as talented as you would surely be hooked up with professionals.

You're an expert at SEO, but you don't even have your own domain, and use a free email service. Uh huh. Sure. Totally believable.

We are gonna make it guys

>>3189094

inconsistant style
inconsistant level of quality
poor communication
long periods without updates/wips
missed deadlines

>>3188052
>so you're more of a graphic designer than an illustrator.
No.

>>3188963
It has been $0 the past 2 months, if you aren't including non-repeat clients from Upwork (I don't understand why you wouldn't - they still came from the site). When I would regularly check for and apply to relevant jobs on Upwork, It got as high as ~$3500 one month, as low as $200, but around $1000 on average. I've been at it since around March this year.

>>3188964
>>3188973
What did you sign up with as your profession or expertise? I've heard of this happening in industries that are extremely oversaturated on Upwork (such as web devs, for example). I'd be surprised if they started limiting illustrators to the platform.

>>3189035
Unless they are paying you a LOT of money, avoid it like the plague. I would guess at least $5000.00, but I'm certain they are looking for a fraction of that from someone in a country with a lower cost of living.

>And would you do this hourly or by fixed price?
Always do fixed price, and break it up into reasonable milestones (most often Deposit + Delivery of Final Work).

>>3189061
>>3189080
>>3189118
>>3189124

Again - always do fixed price. Illustration is generally not something that is priced in hourly terms, but rather per project or per illustration.

The time tracker app is invasive and stupid. If you don't use the screenshot thing, you forfeit your safety net on Upwork (Upwork will recoup the costs if the project goes ill and the client won't pay for completed hours). You can manually input your hours, which is what I did on the one hourly job I ever did there. Even then, I simply did all the work and added all the hours in at the end and billed them.

>>3190121
Anon, thank you for taking your time to answer these. It's really helpful and it's encouraging to have this beginning part demystified.

How do you come up with your price? With an hourly rate I would think you give them your rate, a minimum and maximum of hours you expect the process to take, the maximum being kind of a cap on what you intend to charge.

With fixed price do you just do the same calculations in your head but charge them your maximum price?

>>3190433
For sure - happy to help! Glad to see this thread is helping some folks get a slightly better handle on how to get the ball rolling with their freelance careers.

>How do you come up with your price?
Good question - it depends on several different factors.

I personally never work hourly, but developing an hourly rate is a good way to get a ballpark guesstimate of what to pitch. I know this is a wide range, but I like to try and make between $40-$100/hr in projects. I try and gauge the budget (smaller business, lower fee etc.) of the client and propose an appropriate that I'm both happy with and they can afford.

However, rates are not just a reflection of your time spent working. There is also your skill + expertise as an artist, and also the usage rights. In regards to usage - it essentially means that the more something will be used, the more money you are entitled to. For smaller projects, I usually don't take this into account, but it's the reason why an illustration for a popular brand will pay so much more than a local business - even though you may have spent the same amount of time on a project for each of them.

I typically price on a per project basis. Within that, I sometimes price per illustration for a larger set. For example, I'm currently working on a bunch of simple illustrations for a booklet showing the process of making something. There were 38 simple illustrations, and I priced them at $30 each, so that's $1140 for the whole project (took a couple days tops).

Some jobs have industry-standard fixed prices to them. For example (and what is very popular here) - I believe Wizards of the Coasts pays ~$800 for a fantasy illustration for a card. I like doing editorial work, and some alternative weeklies pay around $350 for a cover, while large national magazines can pay thousands for a cover. Again - larger clients mean more usage/circulation and the more you can charge.

Blessings.

>>3190121
The client is offering a lot of money, but I think he expects character designs, story development (he's asking for an artist to fill in the dialogue as well as draw) two issues that consist of 6 pages with front and back cover, so 12 pages with 4 covers altogether, all colored, in one month.

Should I try to ask the client if he could make the deadline to two months? A part if me wants to take this for the money, but I'm worried this will be too much to do in a month.
He pretty much said in the offer that if you can't get it done in that timeframe, don't bother giving a proposal but the money is tempting....

>>3191692
Two months? Even if they're paying triple industry scale as a rush fee, you're doing too much for two little. You're doing the work of several people, so charge accordingly. Two books? That's 6 months lead time, minimum, especially with character development, considering they could reject all the work you did in the last week and expect you to redo it in a week.
One month is insane. Two months is an insult. Trust me, went down this road in the beginning, it NEVER works out.

Don't bother with the proposal. Let someone else throw a month away. I'd also want a serious fucking contract in place, and half up front before I do anything.
Just as an example, a simple children's book generally has a year lead time. ONE book cover illustration can have a lead time of 3-4 months. Album covers can have anywhere from 2 weeks to a month for one illustration, unless more is needed.Very little is done in a month, in publishing, unless it's a single illustration. There's always lead time for changes, editing, etc. One month? I'd laugh, and make a note to look for the project down the road, if it ever makes it to the market. I'n betting it won't. Been there, done that. I wouldn't touch that much work in so little time for 4 times the top industry rate.

>>3191692
Well think of it this way - Can you get 1 cover + 3 pages done a week? If so, go for it.

I'd still personally avoid this job. I don't know what the job description is, but they seem like they're leaving an awful lot up to you. Are they really not helping you at all with coming up with the story or the dialogue? I agree with >>3191724 that asking for this workload is unrealistic and likely coming from an inexperienced client who will not be worth dealing with.

>>3191737
The job description is here
>>3189035

I sent a proposal because he sent me an offer, although I realized after I sent the proposal it's probably too much

In my proposal I said I prefer fixed rates and said I would charge at least $250 For colored pages before 3 revisions. But when I sent the proposal, I didn't take into consideration that he also wants character designs and for the artist to take the rough plot outline they have and flesh it out.

The guy replied to my proposal saying he likes my work and also asked what I would charge for character designs and story development. He messaged me over a day ago so it looks bad if I don't reply soon. The reason being I didn't see his message until earlier today, but for some reason I don't get Upwork message notifications on my phone.

Should I just withdraw my proposal, apologizing that it's more than I can chew...? Or should I try asking the guy if this can be done in 3 months instead of 1?

Have you ever tried using dribbble to get your work out there and be seen by fellow people in the industry (albeit design)? This would totally depend on your personal style though.

Dribbble isn't just for designers, plenty of illustrators use it who have done illustrations for newspapers or magazines for example.

>>3191811
>Should I just withdraw my proposal, apologizing that it's more than I can chew...?

Yes. Again, been down this road, don't make the same mistakes I did early on. This proposal is laughable even to pros, who can work fast.

Seriously, OP. An entire month of your time is only worth $250 to you? That won't work in the professional world, there's this strange (to beginners) thing, that if you price too low, nobody takes you seriously.

Looking at that proposal, to hire this kind of work out at the ad agency level would be tens of thousands of dollars. You're doing the work of the writer, character designer, art director, illustrator, and colorist. At least5 people's jobs. In a month, that would take professionals at least a couple months. And, for print? LOL. Okay. This 'client" is a bottom feeder and a waste of your time. $250? Dude. That's literally $1.50 an hour, if you only work 40 hours a week for a month. You might as well GIVE the job away for that. Your time is only worth $1.50? Really? Even a basic bitch beginner is worth minimum wage, at least.

Send an apology, lie, whatever, and get the hell away from this, as fast as possible. You have no legal requirement to do the job, a proposal is not legally binding. RUN. This is a bottom feeding jerk who ruins people before they even get started with insane deadlines. Guaranteed whoever bids this the lowest gets it, and your bid is already laughable.

Again, if this was bid at the ad agency level, which is where this kind of work comes up, you'd be getting proposals of months for deadlines, better terms, and tens of thousands of dollars, especially considering what they expect you to do. This is some bottom feeding asshole who thinks comics are easy to draw, aren't worth anything, and has no respect for you, or what you're doing, and i GUARANTEE he's charging the client WAY more than you're charging. This is a sleazebag. RUN.

>>3191918
They said $250 a page, so 6 pages is $1500. Is that considered low?

>>3191918
Sorry I should've clarified. I said I would charge $250 per page. So 12 pages would be $3000

>>3191945
And this is before character designs and story development. The guy even said "so 6 pages, plus 2 covers... so $2000?"

Hence why I wanted to give a proposal. Im wondering if could pursuade him to just let me do some part of the project or ask if it could be done in a few months instead of 1 month.

>>3187244
just become genuine close friends with artists and you will have an unlimited free workforce

>>3191811
Did you ever end up replying? It's up to you at this point to decide whether the workload is worth it, AND if the potential client seems reasonable and easy to work with.

>>3191918
Reading comprehension, my dude. It's pretty clear they meant they would do $250 per colored page, not for the whole project.

>>3191890
I used to regularly upload work to dribbble. Of course it can be great for illustrators, but I just don't simply think it's worth your time to upload work on a regular basis.

>to get your work out there and be seen by fellow people in the industry

I think the issue is that you're not going to be 'discovered' like you think you may. You're likely not going to become the hot trending new artist on dribbble, and you profile will get lost in a sea of tens of thousands of other illustrators.

It's the same for other social media sites - commodities that I find their importance to be vastly overstated. Social media shouldn't be used with the intention of getting 'found' and discovered by a random art director and getting a job. Sure - that occasionally happens, but it is a passive approach to finding work and it relies far too much on luck. Relying on 'luck' is just bad business.

Go ahead and make a dribbble, but don't expect it to passively make or break your career. Your time spent occasionally uploading would be much better used by proactively looking for work.

why is /ic/ stuck on halloween?

>>3193264
It's just you, my dude. Mine reverted back to normal.

>>3160382

gud thread

>>3195267

You can change the theme on the corner.

>>3184996
Name one game, Movie or book franchise within the past 20 years where that design would make any sense as one of he main characters. No? Your work isn’t applicable to mainstream tastes so you will have a hard time appealing to the audiences.
>Inb4 Powerpuff girls villain

>>3185187
Brushstrokes that add value to a painting aren’t random they indicate form, direction, texture. Your improvements simplified the values but ruined any sense of form.

>>3197190
That design was done for a friend's homebrew tabletop game. It was set in a WW2 post apoc LA with gangs fighitng in the ruined city. NOt really main character material, but more like a regular ganger. Pic related is a gang leader, so maybe more of a main character? This is all at least a year old and I'm still working on it.
So far as main strem tastes, I should make some 'seller' pieces because my personal tastes are far from main stream. Again something I'm working on. Slowly but surely.

>>3197193
That peice is 6-7 months old. After some good criticism and study. I'm concentrating on my composition, value ranges per compositional element, and brush strokes/rendering so I'm still working on it.

>>3186107
are you that guy who made 1000 off a chocolate shop decoration?

>>3197190
hell boy? mad max fury road?

Has anyone had success on upwork so far? I've been looking at the illustrators there and most that I have seen only used upwork about once every 5 months, for jobs in the tens to low hundreds, not as a decent monthly income. They're also shitty as fuck. Like the low-grounds of deviantart. I have not seen a single impressive artist.

>>3198139
>chocolate shop decoration
It was little illustrations for a chocolate making booklet - not quite decorations for a shop. It was $1200 total: 40 simple illustrations at $30/illo. I've attached an example of one of them that I did - they're meant to be printed at a small size hence their fairly simple level of detail.

>>3198184
>Has anyone had success on upwork so far?
You could try reading the thread.

>>3198292
>so far
I asked for more of those in the thread that tried it after anon suggested it.

Nice bread

>>3191960
How do I be a good friend

>>3199737
Ask /adv/

>>3199737
>Tfw I havent spoken out loud on over a month
Send help

>>3199737
Don't ask this place

just be urself

>>3182360
dude, well targeted mail-lists are extremely valuable commodity, people dont just share them, you have to work in a company that has the connections and snatch it from there

>>3201488
don't if you type like a dickwad

>>3202005
Mean

>>3164473
a month later and im getting close to my first k
fuck man, should have started months ago.

Now i dont know if spend it on fun stuff or on an art mentor.

>>3202649
was going to ask you to post your work but i see you already did

>>3202649
what exactly did you do?

Does anyone have any networking advice? I was always told that in this industry it's not so much what you know but who you know. Thing is, I'm always afraid about approaching people or even the proper channels with how to reach them.

For example, I've thought about pursuing storyboarding after doing a freelance job for a friend of a friend who was pitching their cartoon to Nickelodeon. Unfortunately, it was never picked up, but I now have an entire episode boarded to show for other opportunities. I found out an alumnus from the art school I went to is a story artist for Pixar. I don't want to just contact him and ask if he could get me a job, but I'm not sure what I would even write to try and make a connection with him.

What is the first step to trying to make these connections to have someone refer you for work in their company? If I tried to apply to a storyboard job at Disney Television, should I try to directly message a director about my application? What would you do?

>>3203123
TL;DR How to connect with valuable people you've never met but could get you a good opportunity?

>>3203123
And by proper channels, I mean if I were to get in contact with someone, is it better to send that first message via LinkedIn message, Facebook PM, email...?

>>3203123
Do not, under any circumstances, bother directors. You won't get past their assistant/message service anyway, and if you somehow have a personal number, you'll regret it. You need to meet the people who will hire you, the art directors and the like.

Pixar/Everyone else has a hiring process. Unless you have a good friend who works there who will recco you, and bypass that system, just submit a portfolio, and see if they call you.

If you want to meet people, volunteer or get hired onto indie projects, go to industry shows and conventions and events. You should have been developing contacts in school - but you can still make them. Contact the alumni from your school, and instead of asking them to vouch for you, which is kind of rude, ask them for advice - "How do I get hired there?" "Do you have time to look at my stuff, and some tips?" If they respond and you have a dialog - viola - a connection. LISTEN to what they tell you.

Follow people who do what you want to do on Twitter. Politely ask them a question or two about the industry, see if they respond. I know someone who started up a dialog with a very well known author that way, which led to a friendship, and getting a ton of advice from them.

It's like acting, or being a musician - you're probably gonna toil in retail before you start building up your address book with good contacts. Apply to all of the companies you can think of, if anything just to get feedback if one of them is willing to give you some tips, especially if you get as far as a face to face interview.
I get that it can be intimidating, and some people will be annoyed, but some of them won't - and those that won't be, will be the ones you can learn from.

on upwork, is it better to get paid by segments or paid in full at the end?

>>3161643

geez.. fucking rude lol.

There is no way for you to know. Maybe he's just sprinkling letters, out of excitement or boredom.

>>3203123
>>3203125
>>3203126

Networking does not mean you necessarily have to meet the potential client in person, or that you should go through a 3rd party (like a friend who works at a place you want to work at). There is absolutely nothing wrong with simply contacting the art director or whoever yourself and going from there. If you're not going to contact your alumni buddy, then you should just contact the business yourself - it's a totally acceptable option.

However, there is a lot of strength in being referred for a job (which is what you're trying to do). This is almost always preferable to simply cold calling the art director (assuming that you have good work to being with). You're essentially trying to skip the line of people who want to work for the business by having your connection bring your work directly to the attention of the decision maker (art director, creative director, etc.)

I would personally just send an email to your alumni connection and say how you were interested in working at Pixar, and simply ask them for advice on what to do and how they landed the gig. Attach your work and if they reply, follow up by thanking them for their insights and ask if they thought your work would be a good fit for Pixar and if they would mind getting the art director to give you feedback. If your work is good, you might land a great opportunity right there and then. If your work is not good, you'll hopefully get some solid feedback - both for your art & career -
to help you continue to grow.

Hope that helps!

>>3203787
Generally speaking, it's best to break it up. Usually the best practice for most jobs is to break into a Deposit + Delivery of Final Work (usually what I do - usually around 50% / 50%). This seems to be standard - if a client complains about a deposit, then that's usually a red flag and you should not proceed with the gig.

>>3203808
>>3203808
There's really nothing rude about what I said to that anon.

It's just a matter of fact that if you don't have a solid handle on English, then you're going to struggle on English speaking sites such as Upwork. There's nothing rude about pointing out that that anon had poor English. To suggest that they are a native English speaker who is "just sprinkling letters, out of excitement or boredom" is just a terrible excuse and is obviously not true.

>>3160382
>>3160595
Polycount and Artstation are the only real ones there, create a Linkedin account for great results as well.

>>3203999
Do people really search for artists on linkedin?

>>3203808
shut up faggot

>>3204728
lmao

>>3204716
they absolutely do, i should post on there more often but i'm only kind of looking for a job i'm more working on portfolio but it is the website above others to be using rn

>>3204716
Sure do, someone from Disney was looking at my Linkedin profile a while back. Problem was I had the mentality that Linkedin was trash so my portfolio was pretty much non-existent.

Also try Behance, I've gotten some pretty decent gigs through them.

>>3204716
This is the first time I've heard people suggesting LinkedIn. Similar to other social media sites, LinkedIn a passive form of self promotion so you should only use it as a supplement to your more direct promotional efforts.

>>3160595
>forum.unity3d.com/forums/commercial-job-offering.49/
unity job forum is ded

>>3206128
>We've closed the job boards. If you're looking for work, or looking to hire check out Unity Connect. You can see more information here.

>>3206177
>forcing me to make an account
nowayjose

Yoooo a Visual Development Arrist from DreamWorks just sent my an invitation to connect with him on LinkedIn. I guess since we had mutual connections.

I really want to get into storyboarding. How can I use this connection to my advantage??? Should I message him, thanking him for his invitation, and ask if he could look over my portfolio??

>>3207079
im going to cum out of excitement for you
as long as your portfolio is ready for a storyboarding job, yes.
dreamworks tv has a lot of projects going on right now.

>>3207127
I actually applied for a storyboard position for DreamWorks tv a month or so ago.

What kind of message should I write to this guy?? Should I mention about the application??

>>3207131
yes mention the application. that might be why he sent you the invitation to begin with actually.

>>3207156
I did some research on this guy, hes been in the animation industry for over 20 years and is the one who came up with the design for Puss in Boots for Shrek. So, I dont want to give off a bad first impression when I message him. What should I say??

>>3207205
Also he's a Visual Development Artist, not Story Artist, so would he even be the right guy to talk to about Storyboarding?

I applied to two jobs. A Storyboard Artist position for DreamWorks TV back in Aug, and a Storyboard Revisionist for the main DreamWorks studios back in September. Should I mention both?

Posting art online won't get you any commisons. You have to talk to people. Also show the right people. Posting on forums is just an endless circle jerk and nobody likes you. if you're good the autists will envy you and shun you. you're better off talking to a director in real life and showing him your stuff.

my advice to anybody looking for real illustration work would be to stay off the internet as much as possible during your beginning career. make a website, but that's it.

>>3207131
if you're coming here to ask advice. hahaha i can already tell you're shit at art but you're to delusional to realize it.

>>3207238
I mean, I don't think I'm the greatest artist, but I did have a table at New York Comic Con's Artist Alley, which apparently is pretty hard to get. I just have terrible social anxiety and worry about making bad first impressions

>>3207304
then you're probably bad at art. don't worry you'll grow out of that..

Any tips on getting commissions for lewd work?
I love drawing hentai :)

I got my first upwork reply for a $700 job. i didn't know hitting "enter" would send the message, i thought it would skip a line. i panicked and ended up sending 3 messages. the last one was apologizing and telling them i was new to this. fuck my anxiety. it's been like 20 minutes and i haven't gotten a response back

I got my first upwork reply for a $700 job. i didn't know hitting "enter" would send the message, i thought it would skip a line. i panicked and ended up sending 3 messages. the last one was apologizing and telling them i was new to this. fuck my anxiety. i didn't even answer all of their questions because i was typing too fast. it's been like 20 minutes and i haven't gotten a response back

>>3207770
?? You can delete your message if you send it accidentally. It's stupid how "Enter" sends the message (shift+enter is a linebreak in their chat), but you should have easily been able to delete the messages you didn't intend to send. You can then rewrite what you needed to say in one complete message.

Also, if they got back to you in 20 minutes that'd be some sort of record. Give it 24-48 hours. Relax.

>>3207774
thanks man, i feel much better

>>3197190
LISA the painful.

>>3207770
I did the same thing while landing my first translation job at upwork and god know s I panicked so bad. But I dleted it in time. Congrats anon. 700$ would allow me to live confortably for over a month.

>>3207770
LOL I did the same. You can delete message and rewrite to look less retarded.

>>3207786
post your work man. srsly. anything

>>3207372
Lewd work is suckers. Only failures draw porn. It's unsustainable long term and a cop out for inexperienced artists who don't know how else to make money with their skills.

>>3209244
>unsustainable long term

that is bullshit

>>3209922
It's not bullshit. It's a fickle and super niche 'industry' that pales in comparison to doing illustration for commercial clients. Do you really think drawing porn will support you decades from now? It's not something you can build a real, life-long career from.

>inb4 you post a handful of successful Patreon porn artists
Great for them that they've made it work, but to suggest that they'll be able to keep this up years from now is just stupid.

>>3210269
there will always be thirsty people that want lewds of their waifu
this has always been true

Does anyone here have tips to get over a fear of judgment?

I graduated from an art school several years ago that specialized in comics called the Joe Kubert School. I went straight after high school because I was accepted and I was told it was a hard school to get into and that I would have connections to the comic and entertainment industry.
Fast forward to graduation time, my work improved, but it wasn't at the level of professionalism comic industries wanted to see to hire you. Maybe like 2 or 3 people from my graduating class went on to do comics full-time.

So I moved back home with my parents with no job and it became harder to improve my art while at home with the pressure to get a job.
So I worked part time in retail and has a few freelance jobs here and there.

This went on for a few years, but eventually I got a job as a technical/production artist at a slot game company through am alumnus from my school. Worked there for 3.5 years until I was laid off this past January. Since then I was stuck in the same position when I graduated. I decided to go back to college this fall to try and earn credits toward a degree in Design/Digital Media. I really loved working in a production environment, so I'm hoping to get another job at a studio again. But I'm still pursuing freelance work in the meantime.

Sorry for the longest backstory. Getting back to the fear of judgment thing. So a guy from the Kubert School who graduated a year after I did, went on to be an editor at Marvel and now is an editor and artist for Dynamite Comics (he also owns a comic book store and is married with 2 kids, not sure how he does it all).
I actually ran into him this past weekend at a comic convention. I always see him at least once a year at these cons, but I'm usually socially anxious as fuck and come out awkward.
This time, I finally decided to grab some balls and ask him "Hey, if Dynamite is looking for any new artists, I'd love to contribute some covers or comic pages"
CON'T...

>>3211831
So he said "Yeah hey you have my contact info, send me your work. Do you prefer cutesy stuff like Grumpy Cat, do you know about Pathfinder?"
I told him I like doing the more cartoon cutesy stuff, but like drawing stuff like Red Sonja as well.

But here's the thing, I feel like I shot myself in the foot because while I do have comic work or illustration work to show this guy, it's at least 4-5 years old. I also have that judgement floating above my head about the fact my work hasn't been published yet. Especially when the guy himself asked "Hey you graduated a year before I did, right?"
I'm just thinking to myself "Yeah and had constant comic art work and you became an editor after you graduated, while I never was published".
I told the editor that I did freelance for a few years after graduating, but worked at a slot machine company full time, so I didn't have much time for freelance. I told him since I wasn't working there anymore, that I'm currently pursuing more projects.

So what's my next step? Should I still message this guy with my old comic work and see what happens? Or should I instead, draw some new comic pages from a script to put in my portfolio first, and show some fresh work? Problem is, I talked to him on Saturday, so I don't want to delay this too long.

upwork client is telling me to "confirm receipt" where do i do that? i only just accepted the contract

upwork client is telling me to "confirm receipt" where do i do that? i only just accepted the contract and haven't done anything yet.

>>3211831
>>3211842
A combination of different things here:
1. You're comparing yourself to the success of others, and this causes anxiety. Fuck everyone else's journey - focus on your own and focus on continuing to put one foot in front of the other. Your dynamite friend isn't judging you, or isn't looking down on your for not quite having the same success in comics as he had.

2. Sounds like you're not very confident in your work. It sounds like you need to update your portfolio with more comic recent work - the best that you can make. Personal projects are fine, and I would get cracking on them immediately.

However, I'd still message this guy ASAP and show him your old work. Remind him that you've been out of the comics game for a while, but that he might still be able to find a use for what you currently have. If it doesn't work out - that's fine. However, DON'T give up. Again - create more personal comic work and try again at a later date. There is absolutely nothing wrong with checking back in periodically with new work (I feel a lot unsuccessful artists never bother doing this, or feel that they're 'bothering' the person.) This is a great connection, so there's no reason to let it go dry if it doesn't currently work out.

3. Why go back to school for another design degree when you already have real world experience in it? Sounds like a massive waste of money and time.

>>3211955
Why don't you just ask them what they meant? There's nothing wrong with asking for an explanations or clarifications. My guess is they're just wondering if you got the notification that the job has started, or they're confused with how the milestones work.

Though above all, it sounds like you're working with a client who's a bad communicator - good luck with that job, bud!

>>3211831
yeah. its called growing up. age is your cure. after living on this planet for twenty odd years you stop giving a fucking about what people think about u

>>3212178
>2. Sounds like you're not very confident in your work

It's not that I'm not confident, just I'm worried I have too little to show. This is an issue I've been having for years, struggling with an identity of what kind of artist I even want to be, but every possibility I find an issue with. Draw my own comics? Can't come up with a good story past the idea. Illustration? All I can think of is fanart instead of original subjects or ideas. Concept Art? I prefer doing simplistic stuff instead of super detailed backgrounds. It's like I've been dealing with a terrible art block for the past 7 years. The only thing that motivates me to draw is if something gives me something to draw. I started doing a webcomic a few years ago which were a series of single page gag comics, but I've done only 7 strips over the course of 3 years, mostly because I find it difficult to constantly come up with ideas. This webcomic got me to get a table at New York Comic Con's Artist Alley, so I'll try to create new comic strips for it sometime.

>3.Why go back to school for another design degree when you already have real world experience in it? Sounds like a massive waste of money and time.

Because I've been looking for a job every day since I've been laid off and haven't had luck. It doesn't help that a lot of jobs ask for a Bachelor's, so I'm kinda going to school to pass the time, and if I still can't find a job, at least I'm learning skills in software I haven't used before. I also really want to learn animation or 3d modeling as I think they may be beneficial skills. I'm kicking myself for not going to a school like SVA instead of the Kubert School as I realize now that I love animation. The closest thing I could probably do in animation with my comic book background, is storyboarding.
The degree I'm pursuing is Design and Digital Media, which is like media production, motion graphics, web design, UI design, etc.

>>3212227
>after living on this planet for twenty odd years you stop giving a fuck

...I'm 28. I keep telling myself to not give a fuck, but I do. I think going to my art school fucked me up. I'm fine with constructive criticism, but it hurts when it takes so long to improve, and take so long to work on a project, just to be told you need to improve more.

>>3210269

all industries are fickle, all niches within commercial art are fickle. technology nowadays progresses at such a pace that much of the commercial environment within which we as artist operate will change radically in cycles. porn or not.

yes i think drawing porn will support me decades from now, absolutely. i'm certain that it will and i'll have to stay vigilant and adapt to changes in order to ensure this. that's no different for any other niche or segment of commercial art.

people will always want to look at sexy pictures. you're quite naive and i'm thinking that you don't have much experience in doing commercial art for a living.

>>3212316
I think concept art will not likely to be completely replaced by AI. I think eventually there will be a graphic engine taht will be able to render entire planet with easy to make assets to populate, but concepts for those will always be needed.

>>3212178
>I'd still message this guy ASAP and show him your old work.

Since tomorrow is Wednesday, do you think it'll be bad timing to message him since it's the day before Thanksgiving??

>>3212407
That's a good point - good catch. I'd email him on Monday in that case.

>>3212316

wow.. you're really delusional, and your lack of actual experience is quite apparent.

nobody wants to see porn in a professional environment, it is not falling under the commercial category, unless you're literally drawing hentai for a company,- and no western company does that (except some 3rd grade comic studios who already struggle with income as it is)

Only way to gain money from such shit, is by pandering to some 13year old virgins, who use mommy's credit card to support you on patreon. But you're probably not nearly good enough to make it look appealing in the first place.

>>3212552

>nothing but strawman, ad hominem and 'no you'

alright buddy

>>3212424
But then, does it look bad to message him next Monday when I talked to him this Saturday? How would I start the message off??

Something along the lines of "Hey (name of guy), how are you? Hope you had a great Thanksgiving. It was great running into you again at Comic Expo the following weekend"....?

Thread has almost reached it's limit (it's at 300, right?). It's been a good thread - glad to have been able to help some folks get the ball rolling on getting some actual paid work.

>>3212711
It doesn't look bad - it's understandably late because it is a busy holiday week. Ideally you would have emailed him this past Monday though, but next Monday should be just fine. It's always, always better to try (even if a bit late) than to never try at all.

>How would I start the message off??
There are many things you'll largely have to figure out for yourself, and this is one of them. I can't write you a script on how to communicate what you need, though here are a few thoughts:

What you wrote is totally fine, except for this part: "How are you?". It's bad because:
1. It's a bit disingenuous. If you aren't friends or you haven't communicated a whole lot already, then there's no need for this.
2. You should start off the email with business first, then (if appropriate) personal stuff second. Start off with "It was great running into you.. etc.", and leave the "Hope you had a great Thanksgiving" until the closure.

Keep it brief, keep it simple, and keep it friendly and polite. Your work will ideally sell itself. If it doesn't, no amount of sucking up will sell it.

If nothing comes of it, you can also always ask him for feedback on things he thinks you could focus on to better increase your chances on success in that particular field. The dudes got some great experience that you don't have and he might be happy to help. There is absolutely no shame in asking for help or advice, so don't let that hold you back.

Good luck!

>>3212741
I would've messaged him on Monday, but I was tied up with other work and errands I needed to get done that day. I'm not a friend of the guy, just more of an aquaintance/former school mate I run into once or twice a year and do a brief 5 minute catch up.

I will use your advice though, thanks a bunch!

Any idea why upwork would freeze some parts of my account and ask for a 10 minute video chat? does this happen to everyone?

>>3160382
How much would you expect to get paid for a peace like this.


I am actually looking for a artist but I have a very low budget.

>>3213138
$100-$200

>>3209244
>>3210269