/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>2830808

>“Practice as much as you feel you can accomplish with concentration. Once when I became concerned because others around me practiced all day long, I asked [my professor] how many hours I should practice, and he said, ‘It really doesn’t matter how long. If you practice with your fingers, no amount is enough. If you practice with your head, two hours is plenty.’”

— Nathan Milstein, violinist

>>2830808
>>2830809
/ic/ still can't disprove FZD magic.

>>2830812

BREAKING NEWS: Talentfags are right.

>The myth of deliberate practice is that you can fashion yourself into anything with enough work and effort. While human beings do possess a remarkable ability to develop their skills, there are limits to how far any individual can go. Your genes set a boundary around what is possible.

http://jamesclear.com/deliberate-practice-myth

> [...] behavioral geneticists have discovered that our genes impact nearly every human trait. We are not merely talking about physical characteristics like height and eyesight, but mental abilities as well.

>>2830812
The level of discipline they hammer into you will rarely be found outside the school (least of all places /ic/). They do it so much that it turns into work rather than fun, which is what needs to happen. This is why FZD is so mislead in terms of their work ethic on this board.

>>2830808

Literally how can you apply that to drawing?

>>2830808

Great article. It's a shame tryhard faggots will slide this.

>>2830838

literally how are you this fucking stupid?

Daily /ic/ b8 thread. Sage

>>2830908
spot the virgin

>>2830915
>it's bait because it hurts muh fee-fees

>>2830922
lol, spot the butthurt wannabe.

>>2830808
Confirmed to be true.

>Trying to teach /ic/ how to improve.

You stupid nigger. Save this for yourself and cut the competition.

Reminder that drawing for less than 8 hours a day is a waste of time.

>>2830809
I don't understand why this thread is still going after this post was made.

>He doesn't mentally draw in his head all day
You don't even need to do much physical drawing for this training method. You could just play video games or something instead, so long as you're THINKING about drawing. It's really that easy guys.

Missed this before:

>>2830818
>During a conversation I had with Robert Plomin, one of the top behavioral geneticists in the world, he said, “It is now at the point where we have stopped testing to see if traits have a genetic component because we literally can’t find a single one that isn’t influenced by our genes.”

B-b-but genes are just memes guys!

bump

>>2831096
I've read about this and how it's just as mentally draining as actually drawing but comes no gains. I think /ic/ does it a lot too and that's why they don't improve but are stressed out.

>>2830818

>Your genes impact everything from your short-term memory abilities to your mental processing speed to your willingness to practice.

>>2831099
>>2831820
The article is about sports primarily; being a physical activity sports are based on the type of body you have which is based on your genes, yes. Drawing is not the same thing.

You both also missed this

>Well, while genetics influence performance, they do not determine performance. Do not confuse destiny with opportunity. Genes provide opportunity. They do not determine our destiny. It’s similar to a game of cards. You have a better opportunity if you are dealt a better hand, but you also need to play the hand well to win.

This site isn't even ABOUT art.

>>2831875
>art isn't a sport
>that means there's no physical element to it
>I don't use my hands I draw telekineticly with my brain lol

Also the part you quoted is just there to give people like you false hope. Are you actually a retard?

>>2831046
/board

You are all just making excuses as to why you suck. Get off 4chan and practice. Unless you'd rather just post about how "talent exists and I don't have any so that's why I suck!!111!"
No. You're just lazy.

>>2831909
I actually plan to get as good as I need to be for what I want to do. I just think it's important for people to be realistic and I don't see a lot of that here. Faggots who set their expectations too high and fail turn out to be despondent adults who beat their kids, after all.

>inb4 hurr literally HOW can you apply that to art

>>2830808
This isn't a meme, it's just most of /ic/ isn't at a point where this type of brute force grinding will be beneficial.

When the only thing holding you back is a lack of mileage and experience, and NOT fundamentals,
improvement becomes a perseverance game about honing yourself, building your own rome, etc.

Getting the fundamentals up to a level where it can actually be used in your own artwork is one thing. Being able to execute on brilliant ideas and concepts is a different skill that can't be taught, only cultivated. There comes a point where you know how to do everything you've seen on a fundamental level, but are unable to use what you've learned to create anything substantial. You're able to look at an artwork and say "i can do that now" but you realize you couldn't have done anything of that quality on your own.

Most professional artists have gotten to where they're at, in a bit of a two-stage process
>deliberate practice of the fundamentals
>steady grinding for the sake of understanding, mileage, experience, style, etc.

Learning the fundamentals can be done in less than a year if you use your resources.
The grind will probably take about 2 years if you want to make money. god-tier takes a bit over a decade.
This is important to know so you don't get trapped drawing toroids or whatever fundamental exercise is trending.

Once you're able to USE the fundamentals, you're about as equipped as any great artist you've seen.
Start trying to learn how to draw whatever you want (mechs, battle scenes, girls crying, etc.)
The difference in skill and quality of art is just a matter of how much shit you've learned, OUTSIDE of the fundamentals.
How many obsevations, studies, drawings, paintings, sketches, etc. that you've learned from.

>TL;DR you can grind deliberate practice. do that.

>>2831954

Quoting the OP that quoted that page that quoted someone else.

>Mindless activity is the enemy of deliberate practice. The danger of practicing the same thing again and again is that progress becomes assumed. [...] In reality, we are merely reinforcing our current habits—not improving them.

You'll stagnate and become basically a clone of Sakimichan, but way more poor and less known.

>>2831898
I guess writing also has a large physical influence because people do it with their hands also.

Or you're just retarded.

>>2832023
that was a fucking pathetic attempt at a retort and you know it.

>>2832087
not really. >>2831898 is a moron who's missing the point and thinks using a pencil is a sport on the same level as what athletes do.

>>2831099

These "talent" arguments always turn into a shit flinging contest between people who basically think their entire ability to practice art is genetically predetermined and if they suck it's because they were born that way and the other retards who say genetics plays no role whatsoever.

The reality, like most things in life, lies somewhere in the middle. Unless you've got a learning disability or a physical malformity there is nothing preventing you from cultivating a skill, even if someone else might be more predisposed to learning it. You might have an advantage or a handicap, but by your actions you can account for that and push past it.

/ic/ is a board that incessantly pushes extremes in one direction or another and plenty of faggots around here struggle to realize it's not that simple.

>>2830955
I wanna punch the faggot who made this pic. You can tell what a cringy fucking /v/ dumbshit he is based on the comments he chose to feature as well as the editing.

>>2830955

what a faggot, kody is a gud boy he dindu nuffin

Why can't people just leave the guy be and let him do his thing?

>>2832097
I agree with you anon because you could be the most technically gifted artist ever but if all you want to draw is furries or you cant come up with something interesting whats the point?

>>2831739

>but comes no gains.

It depends, really. It helps you in the sense that if you're constantly observing things and going "how would I draw that? How would I plan the drawing? What are the important shapes?" etc. The things you probably SHOULD be doing before you start a drawing anyway. Most artists worth their salt take a minute or two to plan their drawing/painting rather than just doing it off the cuff (though even the ones who can do it off the cuff have probably just practiced enough that it's second nature). If you hone that 'planning' phase then it can be beneficial, as long as you put it into practice.

It should go without saying that if you have the option of "actually draw the thing" and "draw it in your head" you should actually draw it, but if you're walking home from work or something it's more useful than not doing anything at all.

>>2832097
I wasn't saying they were at the same level you downie fuck, I was making a point that they're somewhat comparable due to physical action being involved with both because >>2831875
tried to say they weren't.

>>2830955
Leave kody alone :(

How do I draw mentally? I've heard a couple pros say that they do it too but idk how to do it.

>>2832199

You just draw in your imagination.

>>2832200
Imagination? What's that?

>>2832165
You're still missing the point and making an argument out of semantics while shitting your pants.

>>2832023


you need hand-eye coordination and fine motor skills to fucking draw, stop being so dense, retard.

>>2832203
Why, ask SpongeBob.

>>2832200
How do you do that?

>>2832220
His original point was that the article was mostly about sports. Then I explained why that's irrelevant. I did not miss the point, the problem was he made a shitty one weather you understand how shitty it was or not. You fucking turned this into a matter of semantics. Stop being a faggot.

>>2830955
It's not even just the images, all those characters have personality traits and backstories written

he's legit mentally ill so it's not fair to brign him up regarding talent

>"now" a dead meme

I thought the mindless grinding meme has been dead for years because of Tehmeh.

I think /ic/ is going through some kind of meme resurgence.
I say that also because of the realization of many that you have to practice imagination drawing or you end up like Proko.

>>2831980
What's your point? Mindless practice will stagnate your art, yes. If you can tell what you're doing wrong, improve it and then practice it until you're better at it, then it isn't the "mindless practice" that the study relates to.

It's refering to people spending hours batting baseballs or throwing footballs just for the sake of doing it multiple times expecting to get better, when they're not consciously trying to improve their technique.

how the fuck do people practice drawing 16+ hours a day and pay for rent and food

>>2832583
What, your parents aren't rich?

>>2832583
5-6 is good enough. Feng said so himself.

>>2832586
This. 5-6 is perfect. It'll still take like 3 years or so to get to a really good level, but in a year, you'll be far ahead of where you were if you do 5-6 hours every single day from here on.

>>2831099
Of course talent exists. So what.. is the only point of drawing that of being the next Michaelangelo? Otherwise one shouldn't even try?

At this point I have realized I won't become one of the greats, 'cause I would've already been that if I had talent. This doesn't mean I can't make a living with what I can do.

>>2830808
/ic/ has it's own bro-science, like /fit/ does.
>neuroplasticity
>10000 hours
>talent

>>2832575
i remember reading this not long ago. It saved my life.

>>2832575
>>2832979
>tfw didn't buy into the 16 hour meme and just did the 1-2 hour thing he describes
Great feeling

>>2832863
nah but if you suck so hard that you feel the need to spend every waking moment practicing to get anywhere and then go and take opportunities from people who could have done way better you can fuck right off.

>>2833012
same.

>16 hours a day
Who the fuck has time for that???

>>2833215
Someone who does art full time

>>2833215
I do, I'm a neet and my parents take care of me. I sleep 5 hours a day, spend 3 hours doing basic shit like eating , taking a shower, watching tv and spend the next 16 hours drawing. I told my parents that once I get good at art( in 2 years) I will move out of my basement. So far, I've been doing this for the past 3 months and noticed tremendous improvement in my art skill but like the old saying goes" no pain no gain"

During night, I get finger cramps which wake me up but I take advil in order to help with the pain. You guys might think i'm an idiot but this is my fucking dream. I'm going to draw as much as I can until i'm the fucking best.

>>2833220

Post work.

>>2833220
kek. and you wake up after your 10h dream

>>2833434
It's more like 12h, maybe 14.

>>2833220
If you're getting that pain after three months, you're gonna lose your ability to draw way before two years is up

Cut back and do some rehabilitation

>>2833220
Why are you posting on 4chan in those spare 30 minutes of life you have
you're a liar

>>2833220
LOL RIP YOU SON

>>2833220
I was neet for 4 years. I can speak from experience that you're a liar. You eat hotpockets all day and are probably one of /ic/s biggest shitposter due to all the free time you have.

>>2830808
It's a game, you dip.

The whole point is to collect as many Understanding Points (UP) as possible.

Drawing/painting takes as much physical skill as writing your name.
When amazing artists do things effortlessly they literally are using the least amount of effort possible. Their understanding of shit is doing 99% of the work.

Sure, when you really concentrate hard and analyze everything you get a fuckton of UP in one sitting but after a few hours you're already defeated.

The only major difference is that artists who grind, are exposed to art all the fucking time, and as a result, have more opportunities to grab UP.
it takes a long fucking time to build up mileage by drawing a small amount each day, and while deliberate fags are taking breaks,
The grinding fags are still getting micro gains, and these gains build up momentum.
Deliberate fags may get the large UP gain and the rested bonus, but the grind fags multiplier increases decimal by decimal.

Eventually, 16 hour fags have dived into every fucking problem; they know exactly what to do when they fuck up because they fuck up so much.
They never make mistakes, have studied everything, fundamentals are a 6th sense and all that's left is to apply for the job.
Deliberate practice is a linear growth. you may get large gain after large gain, but inbetween those gains you're doing jack shit because you drained yourself mentally.
16 hour grinding is an exponential curve. it's not mindless, it just requires less mental effort because self critique is simple
>"i fucked that up lemme try that again."
>repeat

Eventually both max out their UP, but the guy who drew the most always ends up with the better result.

>>2833561
Is this how FZD rolls? Is this what they believe? I feel like they would and this is their trade secret.

>>2833561

You can't expect to REALLY have the same level of focus after 3 hours of focused practice, let alone 16.

Unless your fucking life depends on it, nobody can realistically have that much concentration.

As a college dropout I can say that the maximum level of non-asian, sustained focus does never reach more than 3 straight hours.

If i suck so much at it do I keep at trying?